#fuck endgame

[eyrliss-camille-rogers]

[wiyu989]

"Bucky was happy for Steve!"

Yeah, totally.

[crossthread]

making myself physically ill over stucky like its 2016

[luna-rainbow]

lightyear, the endgame dissertation

You know that post along the lines of "Lightyear as a movie was okay but then you learn it was a video length essay rebuke against Endgame Steve's ending and it is chef's kiss"...it is 100% on the money.

First thing's first, I never got into the Toy Story franchise, and in fact I found it pretty hard to connect with most of the Pixar movies, despite how much accolade they get.

Lightyear by itself is...par. It's got humour, it's got heart, it's got a solid central message around friendship.

But when you put it in the context of a Endgame critique then you realise how much BURN it packed in there.......

(Massive spoilers under cut)

I want to start this off by saying Izzy is adorable and she had a solid character arc that wasn't overshadowed by Lightyear's. She went from bluster to feeling inadequate to forcing herself to confront her worst fears for a friend. Two separate character arcs in one movie, imagine that, Marvel!

The premise is that Buzz makes a mistake during an emergency launch and strands the entire crew on a semi-hostile planet. Feeling immense guilt that he's ruined the mission (and thereby, much of the team's dreams of being "Space Rangers"), Buzz commits himself to running dangerous solo missions to trial fuel combinations that could get the ship off the planet. With each trip he approaches hyperspeed, he experiences time dilation, and he is so focused on his mission that he barely notices his best friend (Alisha) ageing until he comes back one time and realises she had already passed on.

When Buzz finally finds the right fuel combination, he's 80 years in the future. The crew and their descendants have truly settled into the planet, but in recent weeks the planet has been invaded by a ship of ominous looking robots.

He meets his best friend's grand-daughter, Izzy, and her crew of misfits. Then for the next 40 minutes, Buzz learns he doesn't have to do things alone, and that he doesn't have to shoulder all the responsibility on his own.

And as he learns this, he gets transported up to the spaceship to meet the villain who is, I kid you not, Old Man Buzz. Old Man Buzz came from the same past as young Buzz, but he almost got arrested on one of his return journeys and became so disillusioned with the world, he flew off into hyperspeed and realised he could jump back and forward in time. Old Man Buzz knows the pain young Buzz suffers, and entices him with the prospect of going back in time before a mistake was ever made. It is also worth noting that young Buzz has friends that he is shown to now depend on and trust, while Old Man Buzz only has himself and in his drive to achieve his mission, destroys his only 2 semi-sentient robot companions (Sox and Ivan).

What follows is the greatest dissertation against Endgame I have ever fucking seen in live motion.

Old Man Buzz says that Alisha will get to be a Space Ranger again and young Buzz pointing out that "but...she won't have her family. She won't have Izzy". Old Man Buzz says dismissively "She's not going to miss anyone if she never meets them in the first place" and young Buzz looking absolutely SHOOK by those words, realising this old man was going to wipe out 80 years of lived experiences so he can have his past. Young Buzz then tries to appeal to the old man's rationality and point out that Alisha had an entire life and Old Man Buzz dismisses it as "what kind of life is that?!" because he has in his mind what kind of life she should have, while refusing to acknowledge the life she had was fulfilling and full of joy. Old Man Buzz presses him with "You don't want to live like this Buzz, waking up with the same nightmare, haunted by your mistake, but you can finally let go of that."

And Buzz does, by walking away from Old Man Buzz and refusing to go back to the past. Buzz owns and then forgives himself for that past mistake (and accepting fallibility and forgiving oneself is a recurring theme in this movie, not just for Buzz, but for the other characters too) by accepting the present it has created, because he realises there are good things about the present worth living for.

"You're going to erase everything!" Young Buzz yells at Old Man Buzz as he preps the crystal, "People's family, their friends. My friends."

As much as Buzz misses the friendships of his previous life, he values the connections he has made in the here and now and he doesn't want to erase them for what has already passed.

Buzz defeats Old Man Buzz by destroying the fuel source, i.e. the only hope of Buzz going back in time, and the day is saved by everyone coming together to help each other instead of Buzz struggling to do it on his own (and also why Old Man lost because he only had himself and his robots, who he didn't value).

In the end, Izzy asks Buzz about the now destroyed fuel source, "Your mission...you've always wanted to go home."

Buzz smiles, "You know, for the first time in a long time, I feel like I am home."

AND SUCK ON THAT, ENDGAME.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

If we follow the broken rules of Endgame, then he created another timeline, and the Steve of that timeline will never be discovered because no one is looking for him.

I hate love how it's a genuine possibility that Steve fucked over another version of himself by stealing Peggy from whoever her husband was. [Then again, maybe he did whoever it was a favor.]

It feels like no matter what option we pick it's still absolutely awful. If Steve hid away, that means he never moved a finger and let everything happen despite the fact that he has perfect memory and would remember dates, places, etc. Oh, and he would know she works with nazis but never does anything about it.

If he does do something, then he changes things and fucks up his past self because people are already seeing one Steve Rogers, it's not like he's going to inform the entire planet of time travelling. (And it would make her a prick if she knows future Steve is there with her but she doesn't care about his past self).

I've been reading a few comments in that thread and they say time travel doesn't trigger the TVA, then again Renslayer also said in S1 that the Avengers going back in time was always supposed to happen (guess they needed Loki to steal the Tesseract in order to pick him up? Although they could have done that at any time, dunno), so I'm going with alternate timeline.

It's just awful no matter how they spin it. And extremely out of character. Not to mention time travel is super inconsistent in the MCU.

I also read another comment from a fan who said Steve only thawed his past self from the ice right before he went back to the 616 main timeline and I just... I need to punch something now. I hate EG.

[breckstonevailskier]

[rainbowsuitcase]

I'm a few days late, but since the abomination that is Endgame is freshly five years old, let me tell you a secret: Seeing the movie in the cinema for the first time was the only time I liked Steve's ending.

I was kinda teary since Tony snapped, but the thing that finally made me lose it was old Steve sitting on that bench and the reveal that he got to live out his life with Peggy. My baby got his happy ending. I was kind of crying-smiling about it the whole way home.

The next day I woke up, having processed all my emotions, and realized it makes no fucking sense. Not for the character, not for the timetravel rules.

I, almost literally, woke up mad about it and never looked back.

[lucas-stucky]

The character arc of Steve Rogers after CA:TFA was learning how to live in the 21st century. It was making friends and rebuilding his life to be happy again. Endgame destroyed that character arc. They cremated it and pissed on its remains.

I will never be okay with what they did to him. Steve was finally happy in the future and they made him throw it away to be a man out of time again.

[its-tortle]

mans on tinder just said his favorite marvel movie is endgame,,, sir do u even know the basic ingredients for what makes a good movie

[dadbabyyy]

one of the things that really gets me about endgame is that it breaks one of the most consistent patterns throughout caps entire trilogy: steve and bucky refusing to leave each other

steve defying his commanding officer’s orders bc there’s a chance that bucky might be alive

bucky risking getting burned alive, exclaiming “no, not without you!” when steve urges him to push forward

and ofc, it’s been argued that steve crashed the plane because he couldn’t go on without bucky, supported by ca:ws when steve doesn’t hesitate to risk dying by bucky’s hand if there’s any chance it’ll free him

steve fights against the whole un for bucky, with no proof that bucky’s innocent. literally holds down a helicopter with his bare hands to stop him from leaving. gives up his shield for bucky, without a moments hesitation

and then, when steve is finally faced with no adversity, when the easiest thing he could possibly do is stay with bucky, the man he’s fought for all his life, the man who’s fought for him… he leaves?

fuck disney, and not just bc they killed stucky, but because they told a really shitty story

[idontknowijustsimhere]

Here's the start of my “Stucky Fixit save” since they didn't get the happy ending they deserved:

[azerishi]

[Far From Home: Quentin Beck degrading Peter]

Beck: So, Spider-man. Look at all the people that need you, and you can't even save them? Are you truly working hard, or hardly working?

Tony, coming out of nowhere: *starts choking Beck* Are you breathing hard, or hardly breathing?

[crossthread]

Still not over how endgame utterly destroyed Stucky. The Russo's can fucking die.

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

Couldn't agree more. Just look at the way the Guardians handled Gamora's loss and how they all banded together to make Quill feel better... compare that to the Avengers basically ignoring each other and going their own ways after the Blip.

Sam was texting Bucky but he didn't give a damn about Wanda? Not to mention he has never said a single thing about Natasha despite the fact that she was one of his best friends. Clint goes back to his family and forgets about Wanda after Stark's funeral even though she had basically been another one of his kids post-AoU.

And they didn't do this only with Wanda, what about Thor? They didn't care for him either. Or worse, they made jokes at his expense.

What Wanda did was still her responsibility, but if she had some form of support system things would have been entirely different. She was left to deal with the grief on her own and after everything she had gone through it all piled up... until she couldn't carry the weight anymore. If anything I'm surprised she didn't snap earlier.

[stuckyhaul]

Just some angsty Stucky for you. 🙈

[rainbowsuitcase]

One of the many things that frustrates me about the MCU is that Steggy could have been something really good - and stay with me now.

It could have been one of the pillars of Steve's story, this man out of time incapable of moving on from things long gone, forever hung up on what if's and could have been's, stuck on this one girl he barely knew, wondering if he ever really had a chance with her.

His ending, the resolution to his story, was supposed to be learning to let go of the past and live in the present. His conclusion was supposed to be throwing that damn compass away, breaking it, burning it, something and going out to a bar to find someone new. He was supposed to move on.

But the creators were so exhaustingly stupid and stubborn, that in the last five minutes of what could have been a really good movie, they broke Steve's character, broke his story and his character arc, broke the time travel rules they established in the very same movie.

Steve's story and Peggy's role in it could have been something really great. They'd been building it up for years. And they screwed it up at the last second, tripped - downright fell on their faces at the finish line.

All because they'd rather break it all themselves than let the fans make up something they didn't agree with.