#in irl queer spaces and in fandom

[lovelyrotter]

actually yknow scratch that last part cause the way the epilogues are written makes it pretty explicit that theyre not '''dubiously canon''', thats a gimmic, transmasc roxy IS hard canon. and it pisses me off even more when ppl write him off in favour of headcanons instead, which leads to MORE transmasc vs transfem rhetoric bc transfem roxy is a really popular headcanon. like hes still a trans character. in canon. roxy is still trans even using she/her in candy. THEY ARE TRANS and that is CANON. would yall do that if roxy was revealed to be canonically transfem?? would yall disregard their canonical transgenderness in favour of your cisgendered headcanon? bet yall you wouldnt. bet thatd feel way more uncomfortable for a lotta people. this is disregarding the obvious and usual amount of transphobia canon trans characters get anyway from cis people. this is about trans community in-fighting and inter-community weirdly gendered favoritism and the weird mirroring of the more typical 'boys vs girls' logic from cishet culture

why do so many people dislike or outright hate the concept of he/him transmasc roxy but at the same time love june egbert and insist that shes hard canon... like can we cool it on the transmasc vs transfem '''war''' logic..... can we cool it on the open hatred for transmascs both real and fictional.... can we not appreciate both because theyre literally the same kind of dubiously canon

[saturnniidae]

I bet being antiracist to not be considered 'problematic' seems a lot less appealing when you realize it actually takes work to unlearn notions you've been internalizing from basically day one and that there's not really any excuse around that

[twistmusings]

I have finally found my audience and it's feral Jade Stans /gen

[wreckedhoney]

^^ "coming to the conclusion that positioning the "can people enjoy things that would be immoral IRL in their fiction" debate as a proship v anti fandom debate is akin to pretending that "should we have the death penalty" is a discussion that only matters in Death Note discourse"

not proshipper not anti but a secret third thing (person who has a career in the media and, through covering legislative politics, has watched "associating with problematic fiction or entertainment is an indicator of moral degeneracy" rapidly become a mainstream GOP position that they are encoding in legislation to target the queer community under the guise of protecting children, thus coming to the conclusion that positioning the "can people enjoy things that would be immoral IRL in their fiction" debate as a proship v anti fandom debate is akin to pretending that "should we have the death penalty" is a discussion that only matters in Death Note discourse — the extent and manner to which fiction affects reality is an issue that is immediately relevant to today's US politics, and to summarize my opinions on the matter in fandom terms would be to diminish the ways this debate is affecting america Right The Fuck Now. and i have stopped taking "this person is bad for shipping the wrong anime thing and being horny about it" in any sort of good faith ever since I saw it literally used as part of a GOP smear campaign against a transgender state legislator in an attempt to defend the right from backlash after they used their supermajority in the Montana house to prevent her from speaking on the floor. Anyway I think everyone on this site, especially Americans, could benefit from ceasing to think in proship v anti vocabulary and instead developing coherent political positions on the nature of fiction that do not directly align with current fascist political tactics)

[theglizzardwizard]

Nope that's not it either 💀💀💀

[wisteria-lodge]

What are your thoughts on those who believe hp fans (fan writers, artists, and appreciators alike) should leave the fandom sphere in favor of not giving JKR any “support” even if one does not share her views, as opposed to consuming fan content (or even the original media) while understanding the separation between art from artist (even if that can’t truly be 100% done, as HP is JKR, though that is another discussion entirely)?

I can only answer for myself, but I guess I would say - I'm a teacher, IRL. And my students, they know about Harry Potter, they know the property, they grew up with the movies, they read Harry Potter fanfiction, and... they talk to me about it. I think it's *good* that they talk to me about it. They ask questions about JKR, about the problematic elements in the books, trans issues, queer villains. Whatever is bothering them, whatever they otherwise feel dumb about asking.

Just the other day I had a very sweet conversation with a trans student who had realized he was gay because Harry and Draco in the books were so "real" and "me coded" (and then he realized people shipped them and was like OH.) Basically, he just needed to be told that his experience was still okay and valid even though JKR is such a terrible transphobe. I had another one ask me "why are all queer people Wolfstar?" (what she meant was, why do gay couples in media tend have a masc one + a femme one. But for her, patient zero is Wolfstar, and that's how she phrased the question.)

On this blog, I'm in this position where I clearly know like, a lot about Harry Potter, I clearly authentically love it (and the fan culture around it...) but am very VERY critical of both JKR as a person, and specific choices she made while writing the books. That's a combination that's definitely got me some hate mail, but also thank-you letters, and extremely earnest questions. And, if I never touched HP meta or fandom, I wouldn't get to occupy that space.

I completely, completely understand people who never want to read the words "Harry Potter" ever again. That was me, for years. I only started writing about Harry Potter on this blog last July, but so far it's been very a interesting, rewarding, cathartic experience. I've also had a great time writing fic, and using that as a means to examine my emotions and issues around this property, and with JKR herself. I got such a kick out of matching JKR's writing style as perfectly as I possibly could, and then writing Book 4 babygay Drarry. Or making Tonks just like, super genderqueer, trans, all of the above. Or flipping the framing to write a 100% canon compliant morally grey Dumbledore, and a sympathetic Lucius Malfoy. People seem to really like the fics too, so that's a nice bonus. I've gotten a lot from fanfiction myself in the past, I think it's a fascinating and useful form of art. So, I like getting getting to continue the cycle.

[my-castles-crumbling]

📝🦊Cas🏳‍🌈🎵 - they/them/she/he - queer - married

Click to view only Marauders/Harry Potter content

Click to only view asks/advice

Age: Over 21

Fandoms: Marauders with a side of drarry.

Ships: Jegulus, Jegulily, wolfstar, rosekiller, pandalily, dorlene, drarry.

Music: Taylor Swift, Conan Gray, Olivia Rodrigo, Lana Del Ray, Hozier, Renee Rapp, Chappell Roan, Gracie Abrams

AO3: my_castlescrumbling

Writing: Requests open!

Link to list of crisis hotlines for many different countries Link to Marauders Knowledge Quiz Link to list of requests (requests are open)

***Please allow me 3-5 days to get back to advice asks! If I don't reply after 5 days, please resend, sometimes tumblr eats my inbox messages 🙄

(Also please note that I am not a professional. All advice is just one random person's opinion. When you send me an ask you are acknowledging I am not liable for whatever happens if you chose to listen to a random person on the internet 😋)

Please do not post any of my work on fanfiction.net/wattpad. I welcome collaboration, podfics, and translation with permission. I do not support the use of AI in fanfiction/fanart. I do not want to join any websites that involve writing fanfiction for pay. If you are a minor, please do not interact with any of my explicit content or talk to me about any of my explicit content. I am no longer posting anything explicit here and all explicit content has been deleted from my Tumblr. If you are an adult and would like to read explicit content, please go to my ao3!

Below the cut:

My ao3 masterlist

Links to my microfic archives

My fic recs (Rated G-M)

Request/reading boundaries

Advice/ask boundaries

LGBTQIA+ resources

Writing tips

Song covers

My ao3 Fics:

Note- I am writing all fic ratings. If you are a minor, please take heed. If the fic is rated E and you are a minor, do not interact with it.

AHHHH this got to long! Click here to go to my google doc version of my masterlist!

My Microfics:

Jegulus Microfic Archive

Wolfstar Microfic Archive

Rosekiller Microfic Archive

Jegulily Microfic Archive

Explicit Microfic Archive - Minors DNI

Kinktober Microfic Archive - Minors DNI

Fic Recommendations:

AHHHH guys this list got too long! Please click here for a link to a google doc I made with all recs!

Request/Reading Boundaries:

A lot of people have asked to send me things to read or requests for writing. I LOVE when people send me these things, but just a few boundaries:

No MCD

No incest

No illegal age gaps

No noncon, in any sense

No EDs, SH, or SI

Advice/Ask Boundaries:

Please do not ask me:

Advice about sex (how-to, positions, etc)

Personal topics like my own intimate life, my own personal information (IRL name, names of family members, etc)

Topics that I am not educated on, or do not have a right to give my opinion on. While I am happy to talk and give advice about LGBTQIA+ issues, I am uncomfortable sharing my opinion on issues that I am still working to learn about, because I don't want to spread false information or be unintentionally hurtful. Also, since I hold a lot of privilege, there are certain topics that I would rather amplify the voices of others about, rather than taking up my own space.

LGBTQIA+ Resources:

Here are the websites I often link to when giving people advice. I'll add to these as I find more!

Need help? The Trevor Project has Crisis Counselors

The genderbread person- (sexual attraction versus gender versus romantic attraction)

List of nonbinary identities and definitions

List of ace identities and definitions

A highly-reviewed chest binder that ships to like a hundred countries

Pronouns explained

LGBTQIA+ travel safety guide- world

LBGTQIA+ rights/safety by state in US

United States LGBTQIA+ student rights

The Trevor Project- Sexual Orientation Information

The Trevor Project- Gender Identity Information

Pronoun closet (try different pronouns)

Writing Tips:

Write a lot.

Don't worry about mistakes or editing. Just write a lot to get your ideas out. Practice makes better, and writing a lot will help you gain confidence. You don't have to post it anywhere of you don't want to!

2. Try microfics!

Microfics are a great way to practice writing certain ships, or just practice in general. They're also lovely for getting a feel of posting! They're low-pressure and low-commitment, which is lovely!

3. Find people to write with.

Whether it's people online or in person, find people to talk about writing and write with. It's very motivating and helps hold you accountable.

4. Be gentle with yourself!

This is supposed to be fun. Don't beat yourself up or be too hard on yourself.

5. Write down your ideas.

Ideas come at weird times. Write them down, because you'll forget them.

Song Covers

Sometimes I sing...

People Watching - Conan Gray

Gravity - Sara Bareilles

Blank Space- Taylor Swift

Idontwannabeyouanymore- Billie Eilish

Sparks Fly - Taylor Swift

So Long, London - Taylor Swift

[lesbianlaracrofts-archive]

I saw that one of the ppl behind the homophobic anti tommy "jokes" is a lesbian and I just gotta say, as a lesbian myself, it's so fucking embarrassing that someone would resort to discourse that hurts your fellow people irl and all for a ship. Fandom spaces have always been largely misogynistic and homophobic (that should be hard to miss to any fellow lesbians) and you're contributing to the toxicity just bc you want to see your favourite ken dolls kissing?? "Oh but our group is made of mostly queer people". Um, are you sure about that? This take is probably controversial but I think we all know that actual homosexual people are a minority in fandom (everywhere, really), so most of the people laughing and sharing these homophobic jokes are not gay people, some might be queer in some way but that's a very broad umbrella and, yes, a lot of them can still be homophobic. If you think that people laughing online at pushing a gay man on train tracks don't share homophobic ideals irl then you're too naive or willfully blind. And at the end of the day, you're helping to make fandom a comfortable place for those people.

But anyways, I've blocked blogs liberally this past year so I doubt anyone who's okay with homophobic jokes is gonna see this but I just wanted to put this out there

[olderthannetfic]

Quote from a post: "the things created within fandom aren’t real - an individual fic can’t cause actual, material harm to a reader, even if it contains tropes that would be harmful or distressing if they happened in that reader’s real life; an author’s use of certain tropes or interest in certain characters is not indicative of their actual morals and values in real life; thought crimes are not real crimes - but fanfiction is produced by human beings who are themselves products of the societies and communities in which we all live, and these societies and communities all have flaws and failings.

which is to say, those of us who prefer to read male friendships as romantic do need to be aware that, no matter how enlightened on gender and its foibles we think ourselves to be, we are nonetheless influenced as modern humans by a modern tendency to discourage platonic physical and emotional closeness between men - especially straight men - on the grounds that two men having this sort of relationship is inherently queer and, in being queer, implicitly sexual [an understanding of queerness which is another powerful societal influence on our thought, even if we know we don’t agree with it.]"

Okay this is from a big post from a big fandom account here please don't speculate who it is this is not about them specifically and has nothing to do with them i genuinely respect this poster and they are nothing but a supportive space and don't have any anti-nonsense. But I wanna talk about this point that they are making "the society is queering straight friendships" which is something also the anti-fujoshi crowd is saying and honestly I can't agree with that point.

I don't think its us the people who make fandom are queering the relationships between two straight men but the patriarchal system we live under and straight men themselves are doing it to themselves. They can't show love and affection to each other lest other dudes will call them gay not because there are secret fujoshis around that sexualize them. They can be vulnerable period lest everyone calls them whiney like women. I feel like (and most of the things I say here are vibes, not facts) men having close friendships with other men are green flags, and most women are excited to see men who have exact the strong relationship that are portrayed in media.

I'm confused by this talking point to be honest. I also understand that by saying everything I said above I sort of said the same thing as the original poster. In a sense that society is the problem here and we live in a society as we know, but... idk I feel like what they say is "we live in a society where everyone by default is sexualizing male friendships" which sounds like the standard anti-fujoshi talking point to me.

And regarding the point of romantic relationships being prioritized over platonic— I feel like is a complete bullshit to be honest.

Romantic relationships are prioritized over platonic ones across the board. Straight couples leave their straight friends behind when they get further into relationship too! I don't understand this impulse to constantly talk about romantic vs platonic thing when its about queer ships, and maybe there is somewhere straight ship discourse about romantic vs plantonic but its not as big as with mlm or wlw ships.

And honestly even with this take I feel like romantic relationships are also not prioritized but rather are more encouraged. And there is difference between encouraging and actually prioritizing I think.

(I want to add here that I'm not aroace so maybe its a blindspot and from that identitys point of view the dynamics might be different)

In reality I think both are equally hard to obtain and maintain. I always felt like the fandom being so shipping focused was not about people being hellbent on romance but just the fact that good love stories are few and far between both in fiction and IRL and we can't help but try to make something at least remotely good, or interesting or satisfying.

Again, my main problems is: 1) I don't agree that romantic relationships are prioritized to that high degree over the friendships like everyone claims. 2) I don't think that every single person is actually a secret fujoshi waiting to make any straight male friendship gay. 3) Fandoms are romantic ship centric because people just want more narratively satisfying romantic stories that are underrepresented in media (or they don't get to experience it IRL) rather than they are vehemently against platonic ships.

I don't know this hopefully came out coherent.

--

The person who wrote that sounds like a pretentious twatwaffle, and I am so sick of seeing otherwise reasonable people spout that crap. That's been true since the 90s and probably before.

The reality is that Western culture enshrines male friendship as the highest form of affection possible. This goes back to the Classical world. And, yes, they were probably fucking too back then, but the thing that all of the media is about is friendship.

The entire backbone of Western culture is built on the idea that men are spiritually, biologically, inherently more capable than women of this highest form of relationship. Romance is the big thing for women because we're not eligible for The Pure And Holy Friendship Between Two Men.

The epidemic of male loneliness is real, but we haven't gotten any less "Bros before hos". Fandom and m/m shipping behavior are irrelevant to this.

--

Furthermore, fandom has plenty of people who don't focus on shipping.

AO3 was built by slashers, so ship type is a top-level category, and the site obviously signals that it's about shipping and particularly non heterosexual shipping since you can filter out het.

Past sites often had more metadata that wasn't around ships (e.g. FFN's genres that work like bookstore genres) and almost never let you get rid of het. You might have been able to filter in The Gay, but straight stuff was literally unmarked.

~We do need to be aware of~

Bite me.

This naggy phrase is everywhere, and nothing good comes of it.

The only thing we need to be aware of is that Blorbo is great and s/he should be mashed together with Other Blorbo. If that's in gen adventures, you do you.

[vintagerobin]

Every day I'm depressed by fandom's complete bastardization of the concept of found family and the way it's contributed both to erasing queer history and to young queer people entering irl queer spaces with very odd and frankly potentially dangerous expectations.

[rins-batcave]

I’ve finally decide to make and intro post!!!

My resolution

Meet me

Backup Account - @rins-batcave-backup

WANNA BE FRIENDS? HERE IF U HAVE QUESTIONS, OR JUST ASK

MOOT APPRECIATION AND HOLIDAY CARDS MESSAGE HERE

I’m Rin (Mr Rinithen), Ria, Ren (or Batman), I like a lot so stuff but especially reading and indie music.

I go by any pronouns but mainly they/he/she. I’m gender fluid/queer, demisexual and aroflux.

I like being called mostly masc terms (boy, handsome etc.) but I also like being called pretty so I kinda just fuck with everything.

I’m up late a lot, kinda inconsistent with my posting, scared of rain/storms, needles and spiders, and I swear a fuck ton.

I am dating @choucon (hehe love you, you're in the intro now angel)

Also matching with the bf

Send something in at @poe-fan-club

(IF I KNOW YOU IRL YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS PIECE OF INFORMATION PLEASE FORGET IT OR NEVER BRING IT UP because i dont want certain people to know and also if you mention it to my parents ill die)

I am an age. (But Fr 1000000000 years old) !!Minor!!

Boundaries - AKA - Please don't comment on my body (calling me skinny) I don't mind basic compliments but please don't comment on much more than that. I am very critical of my own body, but it is my space to do that and I don't need people telling me what I should feel about my own body.

Here is my pronouns page: https://en.pronouns.page/@_Rin-

Other Blogs:

Vent 1 - @rinbowroses

Vent 2 - @i-hate-myself-love-that

Writing - @rinwritiesbutitssecret

Diary - @rins-diary-entries.

Poetry - @rins-poetry-blog

Gay thoughts - @rin-is-very-gay

If you want my 7th or 8th blog msg me

If you want my discord msg me :3

Rules:

- Don’t be an asshole

- Please only message me if we’re moots

I don't use many tags, but #shitty poetry is all my poetry :3 and #save for sad are things that make me happy and I want to look at when I’m sad

I’m an INTP-A personality type

LINK FOR SOMETHING I NEED TO REMEMBER

Send me messages please, I’m extremely bored.

NOTICE: Recently I’ve gotten a lot of asks for donations. I’d like to ask people for refrain from sending me these kind of asks as sadly, I’m really not in the position to donate and it really stresses me out

And as a warning, any of my posts could be tw sh, suicide, weight, starving or ed. I try to tag but sometimes I miss it

Here’s my moots board, I update it sometimes but it could be outdated

Below the cut is a list of my current interests:

Music:

Dayglow

Wallows

Vacations

Clairo

Last dinosaurs

Good kid

Ricky Montgomery

High sunn

Rex orange county

Rare occasions

Rare Americans

Vansire

The arctic monkeys

Beach Bunny

Cave town

The drums

Baby Queen

Tally Hall

Cage the Elephant

Mother Mother

I’ll stop listing here for the sake of time

Books:

Anything Alice Oseman

Hell followed with us

Anything queer really

Good omens

Movies/TV:

Will add movies

These are the shows

Fandoms:

Osemanverse

Mcyt sometimes

[dysthymia-wet-specimen]

re: being "groomed" into radical feminism

i was raised by a (non-radical but shares some beliefs) feminist mom who was super anti-porn (irl porn due to exploitation) and always taught me to stand up to misogyny. throughout my life she's been the biggest advocate and protector of me through medical misogyny, ableism in the school system, and helping fight for justice against poorly handled sexual harassment reports i made against classmates who'd been inappropriate to me.

i went through puberty during gamergate, an era of "feminist cringe comps" and buzzfeed manspreading videos. i was in comp-sci and stem spaces, surrounded by these sweaty hentai addict nerds, some even grown men breathing down my neck for being a "female who plays real video games" *pushes up nerd glasses* no matter what community it was, coding, anime, furry fandom, my local gsa spaces, there was always a permeating stench of male supremacy, sexualization of women/female people, and a blatant disregard of respect for the "walking fleshlights" in the room. "what's better, tits or ass?" "oh this anime is so peak, wdym you don't like it cause there's also panty shots of underage girls in it?" "keep furry weird! the horse fursuit with styrofoam G cup breast padding is such an icon!" "terfs* can suck my girlcock" (*which i later found out meant anything from hating trans people to respecting but not wanting to sleep with them, and sometimes conservatives are labeled under this branch of "radical.... feminist?")

seeing time and time again the way women and female people are pushed aside, unconsensually sexualized, or even had rape jokes/threats made abt them, is what made me radical.

I used to think my mom was crazy. "Everyone says bitch? what do you mean it's sexist when guys call women that?" "telling a stranger to choke on a dick isn't rapey its just an insult to someone" "every male watches porn, don't they?" Sexism had stained my life to the point that there was no "safe space" for me. I could no longer keep my eyes closed to the horror that is the female experience. "Radfems won't just respect cause you have a vagina" Well talking about my breasts certainly didn't stop being misogynistic once I told you my pronouns were he/they? i don't believe what others tell me to believe out of wanting to be accepted.

when the mainstream liberal men speak over human trafficking survivors to justify upholding the porn/prostitution industry. when fandom spaces welcome child erotica with open arms under the guise of "anti-censorship for queer media", all while adults pushed the limits of "family friendly convention hours" further and further, being called a "fascist puriteen" for not wanting to see a guy in a thong and a dog mask being walked on all fours during the public pride parade at 1pm in fucking massachusetts...

i'm tired of stepping on eggshells to be the "good feminist". FOR ANYONE. i'm gonna be the most obnoxious they/he nonbinary transmasc radical feminist there ever was. i don't care i'm too "TRA" or too "radfem" to fit into your boxes. fuck your boxes dude!

Let adults make decisions about their own bodies. Call people what name/pronouns they want to be called. Trans people are oppressed and at risk of violence. Children don't need to transition to be respected. Not all trans people can/will have certain surgical procedures but are still valid. The only scenario in which asking trans ppl about their procedures is when its in a (consensually) sexual or medical context, otherwise asking ppl invasive questions abt their privates without consent for your "entertainment" is sexual harassment. Trans people aren't here to satisfy your fetish for our bodies. Making fun of trans people who aren't doing anything wrong is cringe behavior. You can't be a feminist and a conservative/trump-supporter. trans women when perceived as women face misogyny even if they weren't born/raised female and aren't effected by certain issues of reproductive rights or medical misogyny. gnc-phobia is bad even when it's against men, being gnc doesn't make someone trans

are all statements that can coexist with: Respect single-sex spaces (female only housing, gyms, DV shelters, etc. You deserve safe spaces too, but so do we. trans men and nonbinary female people benefit from female-only spaces too!). Some people are only attracted to people who were born male or female, no matter how much you transition, some people are same-SEX attracted, not just same-gender. if you are trans you need to disclose that before sex. being lgbt doesn't make you a predator, but that doesn't mean you should excuse predatory behavior from other ppl in that community (happened to me multiple times sadly, also see ava kris tyson situation/response). in US politics, abortion and reproductive rights needs to be centered more in bodily autonomy conversations, women bleeding out over a pregnancy they're forced to have is not the same as choosing to kys over surgery bans. (though suicide is bad and trans ppl should be aloud to decide what to do with their adult body) intersex people shouldn't be used as an argument point by radfems or trans people, using someones medical condition to win arguments is weirdo behavior... criticizing misogyny/rape culture/anti-female behavior in lgbt spaces isn't the same as hating trans people. misandry isn't real (at least in the USA/western culture) (men can be oppressed differently based on minority status, but men/males are not inherently/systemically oppressed the way someone is for being female. there's not a male hate movement killing and raping men like there is for incels. "misandry" is just as real as "reverse racism/racism to white people", aka bullshit)

i'm not going to go through every single post someone makes to see if they're "agreeable enough" to reblog. my opinions are my own. and i'm happy to clarify that, but does porn and rape culture stop being bad the woman speaking out against it has a wrong opinion? are you fucking kidding me?

not every radfem takes me seriously, not every trans person takes me seriously. i just left the radfem community i really enjoyed due to personal conflict (sadly, but hoping to keep in touch still on tumblr). i'm not a poor victim of the evil radfems. i'm female in a male supremacist world and i woke the fuck up.

[just-antithings]

I need many people to realize a strong contribution to the purity discourse in media we see among young people is due to radfems & gender criticals poisoning the water supply on sites like this one (tumblr) or other social media since 2014

Seeing teens and young 20-somethings using "porn addicted", "porn-brained", "degenerate", all unironically, those are words you find in alt-right & anti-LGBTQ+ message boards.

It wasn't JUST GCs alone, but many people have been around to see them influence a generation of kids with arguments you see today like

“X in fiction causes abuse"

“x is fetishization"

"Unless you've personally gone through trauma you shouldn't write about it"

“If you HAVE gone through trauma, you can't sexually explore it"

"If you like abuse in fiction you're an abuser in real life”

Hearing kids call random (usually queer!) shippers in fandom "groomers" and "pedophiles" for ships that have been established in fandom for decades, or because of a "power imbalance" between adult characters isn't a coincidence. Hmm, I wonder what other groups use those words?

It's not solely kids alone, it is a combination of:

Online radicalization and disinformation

No spaces for kids

No internet safety/literacy

Steeping censorship in activist language,

lack of education (If you don't know red flags you can't avoid them)

COVID did NOT help

This is why ignoring it will never help, because while thankfully some people grow out of it, it usually happens to people who had some support system or breakthrough in cognitive dissonance. There are plenty of people who are becoming adults and who keep infantilizing themselves

“My brain isn't done until I'm 25, you're all predators" and they're talking to a 30 y/o

That argument is literally being used by UK government officials to block access to gender-affirming healthcare. Infantilizing adults only serves the purpose of stripping agency and rights

They're not being safe. They're not gaining skills. They're participating in a fear-fueled climate of faulty medical misinformation, keeping themselves in a perpetual childish-victim state no matter how old they get and nothing about this is healthy

How do you think a person goes through this world when they've been wholly convinced that you can tell someone is safe because they like "safe" or “wholesome" things, & people who make them uncomfortable via hobbies or interests (not IRL actions) are probably actual criminals?

[electraslight]

might get flack for this but you know what, i dont really enjoy the types of people that will give me flack, so ill say it. need people to realize that i can desire characters that are 16 or 17. why? BECAUSE I'M 18. I've heard about people getting anons saying I'm a 'freak' for things drawn when i was younger than the characters depicted, as if me breaching the legal threshold of adulthood makes me a pedophile for falling in fake love with characters i'd be peers with irl.

when i was in the ben 10 fandom, people often called me a bad person because they didnt enjoy i was a homosexual, and my art would be hyper scrutinized on the basis of that and deemed morally wrong because a character stood a certain way or I explored a certain relationship that happened to be homosexual or transsexual and it was constant. funny how this queer safe space is the same thing lol. i think yall need to realize who youre constantly pointing fingers at, because at a certain point the mere existence of sex seems to disturb you more than anything that's actually morally wrong. consentual sex that happens to depict a character crying, an exploration of trauma based in sex, a piece of trash on a page..... Am I getting off to this? Or am I simply speaking about it?

I'm not a 'proshipper' or whatever you wanna call it, those words mean nothing to me because I'm an adult. I'm a gay man who likes sex and has a healthy relationship with it, enough to talk about it neutrally. i need to take away the word 'fetishize' from you people, because I think you need to examine why you think sexuality in itself is a moral failing.

anyway. hunter the owl house and kevin e. levin ben 10 are my weed smoking girlfriends, and if you dont like it go to therapy.

[skibasyndrome]

why are your kinktober stories all bottom Simon heavy? I trusted we would see more bottom Wille from you /gen

Anon, up front, genuinely sorry if you meant well and are now about to get the brunt of my frustration that I've built up for over a decade of existing in fandoms and fanfic spaces surrounding queer men and their sex.

Ooookay, I try not to engage in this discourse normally because frankly? It's kinda draining, because the way queer men's sex lifes are picked apart in lots of online spaces is not okay and, frankly, hurtful. But, okay:

I have posted 10 of 31 stories

I intentionally don't tag any of my smut as top!/bottom! anything (tho I don't mind other writers doing it - go off) cause frankly? I don't believe that's something that should matter. It doesn't to me when I think of wilmon. Preferences are fine, cool, awesome, both irl and in reading, there are couples who like to do things one way only and there are couples who mix things up and there's lots of stuff in between. People love to bottom! People love to top! People love any- and everything in between and that is great for them. All of that is fun and cool and absolutely awesome if everyone involved is on board. I simply don't have any one way I headcanon wilmon, I literally just go with whatever the vibe is. That also means I don't believe in having to strike a 50/50 balance or whatever. Also because

sex between men (and, since in one of the stories Wille is a trans woman, between all people, for that matter) is about more than anal and/or penetration. I love to read and write about Wille bottoming, love to write and read about Simon bottoming. But that's noooooot all there is. One thing I do try to do with my smut is write about some of the other ways sex can look. Which includes (mutual) masturbation, hand jobs, blow jobs, intercrural, frottage, a myriad of other acts. All of these are fullfilling ways of having sex, all of these don't follow top/bottom "logic" or whatever you'd like to call it. So what do we do about that?

I know some people - not saying you do, this, anon - like to conflate topping and bottoming with power dynamics, be it sub/dom type of stuff, or just... some vague idea of who is superior or whatever. And that very much CAN be the case, I'd argue Wille bottoming in my vampire fic or even Wille during the wax play in the one fic and the intercrural afterwards is definitely bordering sub-y territory. But you know? That also very much doesn't have to be the case. In the fic that includes 69 it's Simon "calling the shots" or whatever you'd like to call it, despite being the one that's being penetrated. I have fics planned out where the opposite is the case, I have plenty of fics where bottoming doesn't have anything to do about being sub or being dom or anything like that. I think there's this idea going around that somehow, (gay) sex acts are linked to power and power exchange and that there needs to be some equilibrium or... justice??? And. No. That's not how consensual sex, be it in relationships or hookups, works in my mind. In consensual sex, there is no disadvantage in bottoming or no need for any of the partners to bottom to fix some sort of hierarchy. Because there is none. Not in the consensual sex of two (or more) partners that want to have sex to have a good time or feel close or relax or any of the other reasons people have sex.

Fair question to ask, just know that I don't write bottom anything for the sake of making a point, I just write whatever feels like the characters would enjoy it in that particular moment in time, whatever suits the POV I wanna go with. I don't keep a tally of times penetrative sex has been part of a story and who did what. If that's a no-go for you, that's fine and I won't hold it against you. I have a bunch more stories coming up with all kinds of dynamics, all kinds of sex acts, all kinds of differently written versions of our two blorbos.

hope this was concise enough and I recognize that I've definitely put all kinds of other, adjacent, points into this, but this gay man right here is kind of fucking sick and tired of seeing stuff assigned to gay sex acts that are just. sex between consenting partners

[nobylerdoubt]

Hi! I have to admit, I’ve been pretty strong with my byler doubt. I’ve been a byler since 2019, and I honestly avoid mileven spaces in general to protect my peace lol. And as a result, I’ve been super confident

But recently, I’ve made a new friend irl who really likes mileven and was also in the fandom back in 2022. We were talking about season 5, and I got genuinely scared 😭

She was pointing out how much stuff bylers have gotten wrong in the past. I honestly forgot about all these theories until she said them :/ Like we thought the monologue would be for Will, or how lots of bylers (not me tbh) thought the hug between Jonathan and Will was actually Will and Mike, or how we thought they’d get Murrayed. We thought Mike would have letters for Will saying love, and how I genuinely believed Mike and El would be broken up at the start of s4.

It just seems like we have been wrong a lot in the past. And now I’m like, what if it’s all for nothing? What if we actually are being queer baited? I’m just scared cause I really connected with Mikes story with comp het.

Just because you're wrong before doesn't mean you'll be wrong again.

And honestly? All the things you pointed out that Bylers were "wrong" about in the past were based on leaks or speculative theories.

Sure - we were wrong about the hug and the monologue. That was based on leaks and we held out hope of what it would mean for our boys. But its not a crime to get leaks wrong. Almost all interpretations of leaks are wrong. They're crumbs of information for us the interpret how we will - and we make a meal out of it.

And byler getting murrayed? lettergate? Those are fan theories based on (almost) nothing. (And honestly, jury is still out. It could still happen.) someone came up with an idea based on something small. They're more like stories or fanfics, something to think about to pass the time.

Well let me break it to you. I highly doubt we'll get flickergate. Churchgate could be about acompletely different plotline. Birthdaygate has a lot of promise, but I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't end up happening either.

If leaks and speculative theories were all we had to go on, I'd be worried too.

But its not. We have so much more.

Let me tell you a story. It's the story of how I became a Byler.

So I've been aware of Stranger Things since season 1. My mom and my sister watched it together, but I was staunchly against watching horror (still am) and I didn't want to watch it.

Season 2 came along and I'm lingering a little too long in doorways, watching in small bits in pieces, but leaving for the scary parts.

Season 3 comes along, and I'm a little more brave and a little more curious. I'd seen the Hillywood parody, and clips online about it. So I ended up watching it. (This is honestly my process for getting into a lot of fandoms.)

And I loved it.

Will was my favorite, which my mom and my sister thought was weird because they didn't like him for whatever reason. Losers. But it was because I was really getting into gay media, and I clocked Will as gay early on. That boy definitely had a crush on Mike.

I knew about Byler at the time, but I hadn't noticed anything that would indicate Mike liked him back. It would be cute, I had thought, but Will is moving and there will probably meet someone in season 4 that will become Will's love interest.

But then Covid game and it was 3 years until season 4 came out. I had drifted and honestly never super got involved with the ST fandom

I had waited to watch the first part of season 4 until part 2 was about to drop. I was working at a summer camp at the time so I wanted to try and watch it all close together.

I watch volume 1 and... no boyfriend? And Will and Mike are spending... a lot of time together... and it's almost... flirty?

And then the PAINTING?! The weird encouragement speech? Superhero?! Mike you should know better! Mileven on the rocks by the end of the season?! Byler's gonna happen!

I made the leap: I'm gonna join the fandom! I get on Tumblr and -

Everyone's devastated?

I went on to do my own digging through the show, watched theory videos and with every passing day I became more sure that Byler was endgame. The fandom obviously came around too, lol, after the initial shock.

But the moral of the story is this. What might have felt like a massive failure to you, might not be as bad as you think.

Sure, the hug wasn't Mike. The painting wasn't a swing set. The monologue wasn't for Will.

But what did we get instead? Jonathan noticing Will's feelings and supporting him. The Cyrano trope with the painting, and Will pouring his feelings into giving this gift to Mike. The monologue was such a disaster El didn't talk to Mike for two days when they were in a vehicle together the whole time.

We were wrong about how it happened but... none of these are Mileven wins. They are almost certainly setting us up for Byler endgame.

Maybe all the theories around the leaks and episode titles we have are wrong. But that doesn't mean that Byler isn't happening, because when we step away from the theories and look at what we have in the show - we're golden.

We might be wrong about how Byler will happen. But I highly doubt we're wrong about the idea that it will happen.