#liking a villain doesn't mean you condone their actions

[flowery-king]

Idk what type of denial I'm in but the defanged au is a fucking Philip redemption au what was I on to be constantly reassuring people it's not a redemption plot lmao open your EYES Flowery

[dizzying-faust]

Sometimes I feel like the Toontown fandom needs a reminder that liking the cogs isn't the same as condoning their actions let alone people aren't bad for liking them.

Edit: Because of the tags in a retweet I wanna also say this before people say similar things.

Yes, there is an issue with parts of the fandom woobifying the cogs.

No, that doesn't negate my point that some need to chill with people liking the cogs.

"There's criticism with the fandom woobifying the cogs" and "There's criticism with parts of the fandom attacking people for liking the cogs" are both statements that can coexist.

[nortyourself]

Listen. I'm just here to enable people to unapologetically love villains without needing to justify why

[eemamminy-art]

I don't know who needs to hear this but liking something in fiction doesn't mean anything about who you are as a person.

Liking a male character doesn't make you less of a lesbian, liking a villain doesn't mean you agree with them or condone their actions, finding something awful like murder to be intriguing doesn't mean you condone it or romanticize it.

Things appeal to people for different reasons. Maybe I like that male character because I relate to his backstory of being abused or his backstory of losing his entire family. Maybe I like that villain because I empathize with what started them on the war path and find it interesting that they never stopped where a normal person would. Maybe I like that character doing something horrific because of the morbid curiosity that sometimes people do inhumane things and fiction is a safe way to explore the worst sides of humanity.

Or maybe I just like how they look aesthetically, or I want to look like them, or I find the sound of their voice soothing.

If something isn't for you, it's fine. If something is for you but it doesn't match up with who you are as a person, that's also fine. I find there's an increasing attitude where people are only allowed to like fictional characters and storylines that match up with their real life 100%. Which to me defeats the purpose of fiction. It's a means to explore things outside of the self, and sometimes you'll find things you do relate to that you didn't expect to. And I just think policing what people can or can't like stifles that exploration and potentially self discovery.

[theoddest1]

I think that no one should like Valentino and yes, that's also includes if you only like his design or don't condone his actions, that is not give an excuse for what he's done. But no one is ready for that conversation.

I think it's okay if you find the design alright or if you find him as a villain well done like "Oh man, this dude is absolutely riveting and conniving, that's pretty good for a villain" sorta deal. A lot of Disney Villains are loved for how great their roles as villains are (and also cause they find their charisma believable and entertaining), but this is also what leads to a slippery slope sometimes

Rapists come in different forms and hide in plain sight sometimes, so to make one the kind that's charismatic to lure or trap people in their abuse is an accurate portrayal as well, but if one makes that same character so charismatic or "heheh goofs cutely" that it begins to feel like we're SUPPOSED to find them charming, there is an issue.

That's where my issue lies with the way some fans treat Val, including Viv and some of her crew. Rather than find him gross and detestable, they find him and his personality "attractive" when his personality consists of manipulation and aggression. They romanticize the abuse of his victim and even straight up ship the victim with the abuser and the accomplice. They even ship him with people he has been straight aggressive with when angered, showing that he is NOT fit to be in relationships PERIOD (this should be obvious af, but Viv doesn't gaf.)

Not all who like Val like his actions. Some simply think he works well as a villain or thinks he has a neat design, but I def see what you mean! It's a very understandable stance considering what character he is. I, for one, hate this dude. Nothing about him is interesting outside of his role in the story and who he's affiliated with. He's the least interesting of the V's as a result. He's a literal man child.

[malicious-devourer]

something that's been on my mind a lot because it isn't talked about enough- here are my three personal rules for those who have "problematic" fictionkins

1. being kin of a villain/morally wrong character, being from an problematic media or creator, etc, does NOT mean we support or condone any of their actions. we shouldn't have to "prove" to you that we're good people. you don't control who you're kin of. if any of you mfs start condoning illegal or unethical shit your kins have done though, this rule doesn't apply- go fuck yourself

2. you can still be happy about being kin of the characters. villain characters often have so much more to them than just "being evil". this goes to an extent, of course, but you deserve to feel comfortable with your kins and talk about them to people who will listen. DON'T TALK ABOUT TRIGGERING THINGS YOUR KIN HAS DONE AROUND OTHERS!! GIVE TRIGGER WARNINGS‼️ just as a general rule of thumb be wary of common triggers and be mindful of others. use your common sense

3. lastly, just be nice to others. there are going to be people who still view you negatively because of your kins no matter what you say or do. just leave them be, and don't let them get you down. if someone doesn't want to interact with you, just respect their wishes for christ's sake.

yeah there it is folks ;p just got tired of all the bs surrounding this topic and felt like it should be addressed

[thesunfyre4446]

Yo. New to the HoTD discourse. I hope you don't mind me rant dumping on your blog. I'm a bit scatterbrained so I hope I lay out my feelings about these things clearly. I have finally watched HoTD and ....

Listen, I could have liked Rhaenyra well enough, in fact I didn't really mind her in the beginning. But it really all changed once I saw what the audience were saying. How the majority seems to have no sympathy for Allicent at all.

I thought we all understood that no character in Westeros is really all that great?? So I really cant understand the vile hatred spewed towards her? It feels like they even hate her more than anyone ever hated Joffrey or Cersei. People were rightfully angry with the show runners decision to have Jaime r*** her in that one scene. People were capable of feeling empathy for Cersei despite how despicable she is. But there's SOOO much victim blaming for Alicent. It drives me fucking nuts. And to show sympathy for her would have people dogging on you.

I really cannot believe my eyes when I see people thinking she willingly seduced that rotten walking corpse.

I was so naive to think people would understand where her character is coming from. She is utterly powerless. She doesn't have a king for a father to pardon every mistake she makes. She's suffocating and it makes sense for her to hate Rhaenyra who has more privilege than any woman who ever lived in that world, and yet still step over every single rule while expecting everyone else to just live with the consequences of her actions. We're supposed to like her??

I GET that the point of it all is that monarchy is just a shitty way to run a kingdom. I GET that Rhaenyra being a terrible ruler is the point. Man or woman it never mattered.

What I don't get is people thinking she's some feminist figurehead?? She behaves as a man does in that universe, entitled and unfit for what they feel entitled to. I get that that's the point, but that doesn't mean she's for the women at all. Like any man, she's out for herself. Why would I like her if she behaves as any corrupt man in that world would, when the only difference is she doesn't have a dick? And I wouldn't necessarily mind that? I don't watch HoTD or GoT for perfect characters. But if only the audience didn't treat her like some sort of hero and Alicent the pure villain.

I never felt frustrated with GoT discourse. Why the fuck does it seem like HoTD has bred this extremely toxic environment? You can't seem to have a different opinion unless your mouths dick sucking on Team Black.

Dany, just as entitled as she was, she was still able to do as duty demanded. Rhaenyra is a just a spoiled child all the way through. The hatred for Alicent and the inability for people to see Rhaenyra for what she is, has me thinking people have really missed the fucking point about what feminism actually is. And once again, I didnt watch HoTD for feminism. But the audience seems to think Rhaenyra is a beacon for it. Wether intentional or not, ideas take on a life of its own and you cannot divorce these fan-imposed ideas from the show anymore. That's really the part of all this that pisses me off.

I'm TG now not because I condone everything they've ever done. Literally everyone fucking sucks. I'm TG because I understand everyone fucking sucks. And I dislike being tube fed by the biased writers on what to think and feel.

anon, not a single lie was told.

people hate on alicent for displaying human emotions. it's insane. it's always "rhaenyra will turn westeros into barbieland" until someone brings out the fact that she has no intention of helping any other woman other then herself and then it's all "well, we shouldn't judge her from a modern day pov"..

"I'm TG because I understand everyone fucking sucks" this!! also, they have better characters lol

[idonthaveacontract]

Mad Men doesn't have a significant fandom because aside from the period setting there is almost nothing fantastical about it. No action, limited violence, mystery mostly cleared up within the first season, no overarching love story you're pushed to root for, the rich people use their money to live comfortable, pretty unremarkable lives, most of the action takes place inside on sets we're familiar with. So then what you're left with is the nuance of reality which uh, people don't like, especially when it results in them relating to people they saw do bad things. Obviously in fandom villains and antiheroes are often glorified (and/or blorbofied) but that usually comes with some trappings of separation from our reality.

People wonder why Mad Men never got the treatment Succession is getting. Ostensibly they're extremely similar, but Succession and its constantly changing scenery and helicopters and ease of access to influence over politics are much, much farther away to us than the time period of our parents and grandparents and the people who are our parents and grandparents. When you look at the way people talk about Mad Men characters, they are very afraid to come right out and say they like them. There's usually a justification and disclaimer coming with it that no one feels the need to apply to their enthusiastic comparisons of Tom Wambsgans to Princess Diana. People are afraid that if they just say they love Pete that denotes condoning his actions whereas it's implied you don't condone anything bad the Roy siblings do. And this is not a Pete defense post but he's outspokenly liberal and means it, yet people stay terrified of identifying with him because that might mean they're also capable of hurting people they care about in the fruitless search for finally getting something they really want, all at once. Identifying with the Roys mainly involves sympathizing with their reactions to things that have been done to them while eschewing thoughts of the harm they inflict, because they inflict harm on a scale you could never actually achieve.

As an aside I also think those of us that love Mad Men enough to rewatch and rewatch get hooked on it from the humor which is simply not going to hit for the average viewer, as harsh as that is to say. How often do you hear people who watched it as part of their golden age of television curriculum mention that it's funny? Usually doesn't come up

[iamafanofcartoons]

Reasons to love Cinder Fall from RWBY, by June / Blightmxb on Twitter

1. Her outfits.

She's had MORE wardrobe changes than any other RWBY character. she's a fashion victim and she looks GORGEOUS while doing every evil deed

2. Her story.

She's the survivor of an abusive environment in a world where nothing was given to her, she learned that taking the things she wants is the only way to survive. She's such a tragic villain cause there was never a kind hand that could've lead her on a different path

3. Jessica Nigri's VA skills.

I cannot stress enough how much i LOVE Cinder's voicing. Her velvety voice when she's being mean, her grunts of frustration, how raw she sounds when she FIGHTS. Jessica Nigri does a marvellous job for her volume after volume!

4. She's a girlfailure.

She has been defeated numerous times by a little girl, has been allegedly killed by another maiden, challenged by Jaune (affectionate), kicked by THE Blake Belladonna. The list of failures goes on and i support her ALWAYS coming back

5. Her powers.

She can materialize incandescent cristals, fire, make any given weapon on the spot and BREATHE FIRE. how absolutely COOL is that !!

6. How PETTY she is.

"Do you believe in destiny?" "Yes." // "Someone once asked me if I believed in destiny and I'm happy to say I still do" Cause after coming back from the dead (almost) she es yet again ready to commit atrocities to become even stronger, i respect her tenacity

7. She looks so awesome.

The atrocities look GOOD on her and she is a feast to the eyes when she's on screen

8. She is an overconfident, manipulative, intelligent, ruthless, cunning, villain who knows exactly how to get what she wants AND she's a woman.

Enough of morally corrupted men in media, I want morally corrupted WOMEN who are POWER-HUNGRY & not afraid to take what they want !!

9. If Ruby is the light of RWBY, Cinder is the shadow.

As the show goes on, Ruby & Cinder both face failure, loss, trauma and they both slowly lose parts of themselves. But while Ruby overcomes the struggles and becomes better, Cinder doesn't change her ways and becomes worse

10. Her Cinderella theme

i'm obsessed with how she's based on cinderella but she mirrors that entire tale and instead of becoming kind and forgiving and loving she becomes ruthless, cold hearted, and vengeful

11. She is the heart of the conflict in RWBY.

She’s the only consistent villain that brings conflict to the story. Grimm are background threats, & Salem & the other villains have less impactful scenes but Cinder is ALWAYS at the centre of the main events that further the plot

12. She would give it a shot to bisexuality.

And I think that's very cool of her to love women !!

13. Overall, I think she's a pivotal character in the RWBY universe who stirs things up and gives us such memorable (and painful) moments and I just love a complex and morally dubious villain !!

Disclaimer, cause I know you guys like to take things out of context. Do I condone her actions? No. She's done terrible things and she'll have to pay for them. Do I think she deserves a happy ending? I think she's too far gone for any hope of redemption, so probably no.

I personally don't want her to die, but knowing how RWBY works there's a slim chance she'll survive after what she's done. So. I would like her to hit rock bottom so hard she realizes she's neck deep in the wrong path, but she can still do One Good thing before she's done for(+)+) and that is sacrifice herself for Ruby. Or save her/help her in any capacity when all seems lost and she's too far gone to survive. Her own little redemption to all the terrible things she's done. That isn't enough but it's Something. I want her dark life to end with a light

www.twitter.com/Blightmxb/status/1652622432560111616

[set-wingedwarrior]

I need to talk about Adam Taurus and James Ironwood, and why they are good characters deserving of apreciation.

You see, as much as it's true that a lot of fans of their are crazy stans who see them as men who did no wrong, I don't think it's fair to get mad and attack all the people who enjoy their characters. I do enjoy them for example.

Yes, they are terrible people, but that's what makes them good characters! I love them for playing their role well, not because I condone their actions or think they are in the right!

Let's take Adam for example. I hate him as a person, while watching the show i wanted to beat the shit out of him, and that's precisely why I love his character! He gave me emotions, and played his villain role in Blake and Yang's story arcs masterfully! It's partially thanks to him and the way he played his role that their relationship got to shine this way! He is part of why I love bumbleby so much, and I can't just ignore that.

He's the victim that turned into a monster (even if we find out specifically about that very far in his story), the wronged person who took that in the worst possible way (the fact that you got influcted pain doesn't give you the right to inflict it to others). A boy who had no control over his life that decided to get revenge and control everybody else instead. It's tragic when you think about it this way, and I love that!

Or, even more clearly, Ironwood. From the beginning we see good intentions and terrible actions, that later on, under so much stress and pressure and ptsd, just made him go down. All of his faults come from a place of untrust toward others and the idea that only he could know the best course of actions, never taking into account other people and ideas. This obsession and hero complex is what leads to his and Atlas' fall and, again, even if I really wanted to bash his head for all the stupid things he did (or wanted to do), I still loved watching him play this part and fall deeper down every episode. Again, it's sad and tragic and I love it!

This isn't meant to be a full blown analysis of the characters, but I just wanted to point out that it's unfair to be authomatically hostile towards anyone who likes their characters. I understand that so many of them are people defending their actions, and it is very frustrating (and sometimes worrying) when very clear evil actions get misinterpreted or justified by someone, but it's not like everyone is like this.

They are characters, vessels to tell a story, and people aren't just allowed to enjoy a well played part, but it's actually good being able to apreciate the executions and characterization of villains! Both understanding their roles on a "technical" level, but also understanding their characterization and why they do what they do.

I love when it makes all sense, when I completely see how a character is reasoning and it's consistent with everything else around them! It's part of what I enjoy in stories, and the fact that I do have a good time watching, analyzing and understanding them, doesn't mean I am condoning their actions. Understanding and justifying are two very different things.

So, take this post as a little show of love and apreciation for Adam Taurus and James Ironwood: you are two assholes, but you are so good at that, entertaining and you played your roles well; thank you for your service in the story!

[dizzying-faust]

Regarding that one ttcc post, I think personally my worst fear regarding the fandom is how people will police others regarding the cogs.

Don't get me wrong, I understand people criticisms regarding the fandom woobifying the cogs, but at the same time, I don't like the idea of people thinking someone liking or making soft content with them means that you must condone their actions or ignoring that their villains. And I also hate ones that act like the only way to enjoy them is if their 100% one-dimensional villains and anyone acknowledging their complexity or softer side means you're woobifying them.

People can like the cogs and still acknowledge their not great people and just because some don't talk about their villainy and wanna make soft content with them, doesn't mean we are ignoring that either.

This isn't to say you can't be critical about the way people woobify them and whatnot, but there's a difference to being critical and just being a dick to others liking villains.

[jinxed-sinner]

Sometimes I completely forget that TikTok is where most Stella defenders congregate so imagine my absolute shock and horror when a post came across my FYP comparing Stella to Moxxie and Angel Dust of all characters

Actually, you know what, I'm gonna just say it here: Stella's written to be a villain because she's supposed to be a villain, not because Viv can't write women. Women can be villains and women can be perpetrators of abuse. Acting like Stella's badly written just because she's abusive takes away the reality that women like that actually exist. My mom was (allegedly) like that. Additionally, Stella takes out her anger about her and Stolas's situation out on Stolas. That's inexcusable and since it's one of her defining traits and something that's continuously shown throughout the entire show (and it's indicated that she's been like that her entire life by the way), it makes her incredibly hateable.

Let's also discuss a few of the characters that this person was comparing Stella to.

Valentino - Val is meant to be at least somewhat likeable, because it's realistic for people like him. I absolutely hate him, but I still find myself drawn to him because I love his design and he was very purposely characterized to be charismatic, which is why he has fans.

Alastor - Alastor has morals. If he didn't, Husk wouldn't be in the show. He'd be wherever souls go after Alastor tears them apart. I firmly believe there can be nuance to murder (for example, self-defense), and I genuinely think that there's more nuance to Alastor's killings than just "he killed just because" because Alastor doesn't even attack people without reason. Additionally, even if he was outright abusive (which he's not, fight me), he's incredibly charismatic and likable. Alastor is far from the worst person in the Hellaverse.

Angel Dust - Angel’s an addict who was born into a mafia family and is a victim of trafficking and uses drugs and sex to cope with his situation, and he's prone to lashing out because of it. There's an entire episode breaking this down. If you genuinely think Angel’s a piece of shit please go rewatch Masquerade, I'm begging you

Moxxie - Moxxie was also born into a mafia family. He got into trouble, ended up in jail, and met Blitz, and they started IMP. It's worth noting that it's implied that IMP started as a freelance assassin business that did business exclusively in Hell; Blitz mentions that they don't do jobs in Hell anymore, only in the human world. These jobs are entirely vengeance based (sinner gets to Hell and hires IMP to take care of whoever killed them).

Adam and Lute - Adam and Lute are just a fun duo to watch, and Adam's funny to watch on his own. I absolutely adore their dynamic. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge their role in a literal genocide; I can like them without condoning their actions.

Something Vivziepop does incredibly well is create characters that make you feel incredibly torn (and I know for me personally, both Val and Vox are good examples of this; I absolutely despise them both, but they're an absolute joy to watch. As a result I'm constantly flipping between "God I hate them" and "god I love them" because I hate them as people but love them as villains). That's the whole point of pretty much every character brought into the "Stella's so universally hated but there are these characters in both Helluva AND Hazbin who are so much worse!" argument.

Stella is written to be a hateable character. She has no redeeming qualities. Val at least has charisma and a funny dynamic with Vox and Velvette. Stella just makes you hate it when she shows up on screen. It doesn't make her any worse-written of a villain and it doesn't mean Viv can't write women. It shows, if anything, that Viv has a lot of range in how she writes villains.

This isn't to say people don't make fair points about Stella. She's a victim of an unfair system who was put into an unfair situation, but so was Stolas. Stella has absolutely no fucking reason to be taking her anger about her situation out on Stolas to the point of hiring an assassin to kill him.

Stella isn't defendable. Comparing her to characters like Val isn't fair because Val is written to be likeable, Stella isn't. Stop excusing Stella's abuse of Stolas (and some of that is implied to be sexual by the way) with "Viv can't write women" lol

[myths-tournaments]

Awful Characters Round 1 Part 2 (8/8)

Propaganda under the cut!

HISOKA MOROW

He's genuinely (unfortunately) a really cool character and good villain imo, and his character design SLAPS!! He's very entertaining onscreen and even though he's REALLY weird and creepy and I don't condone anything he does I can't help but love his character. I also love his voice and his REALLY GOOD character song. In a character tournament I saw some people saying in the tags that people who like him are "not to be trusted" and kinda saying people who like him are bad. That made me feel kinda not great tbh. I must keep reminding myself that HE IS NOT REAL and it is OKAY TO LIKE HIM!!!! I can like the guy while also understanding that he sucks and his actions are bad!

Why I like this character: He’s a fantastic villain, his character design rocks, his theme song is excellent, he’s funny, he’s unhinged, he has hips for days, and he has a glowing boner. Why he deserves to be in this tournament: He’s, uh, like, kind of an actual pedophile. Like, he’s specifically aroused by powerful opponents, but one of the sources of that is the protagonist who’s like 12. So. Yeah. …Also he regularly kills people, I guess. Have you seen twitter users calling their fans bad people: No but I’ve seen tumblr users do it, if that counts.

He's popular in the fandom but also you WILL get called problematic by tiktok teens for liking him. Like yeah,, I get it,, but liking his character doesn't mean I condone his… less than savory behaviors. This clown is still hot and charismatic and very skilled with nen how can I Not enjoy when he's on screen?

ELIAS BOUCHARD

He manipulates the main character consistently, makes a character cry by telling him how much he looks like his dad, forces the knowledge of her father's dearh into a different characters head and ends the world through aformentioned manipulation of the main character

(this is about jonah!elias to be clear, og!elias is a different character) i love him so much he's so much fun but i'm not very open about it because he's the main villain and some people are very weird about it,,,, i have seen people say he's a personification of capitalism and if you like him you support capitalism or you didn't get the point of tma (which is just wrong, tma is vaguely a metaphor for capitalism yes but also for a lot of other things and elias isn't even a capitalist he runs a non-profit?) so many people call him homophobic or racist (because he's technically from the 1800s) and say if you like him you're a bad person but there are literally no canon basis for that at all (plus. he's literally a fictional character) i have actually seen a parody of the miku binder thing with elias to say that people who like him are just like people who woobify jefferson. which. what. you'd think people would latch on to the brutal pipe murder or the eye gouging that lead to body possession for his quest to be immortal or the constant manipulation to call him a terrible person but no apparently?? (or the. y'know. literally ending the world)

[shoyosoneandonlywife]

INCOMING RANT

Yoshida shoyo should be treated as 1 whole man rather than 2 distinct characters.

(with manga panels and light analysis)

I will be exploring multiple personality disorder to a certain extent and the pivotal role it plays on his character as well as in gintama.

when I see people treating this man like he's twins or just legitimately viewing this man as two different people as if it is the right interpretation genuinely gets me tweaking so I need to put forward the facts of my case your honour😭😭😭

RANT BELOW:

I have to get this off my chest, Utsuro and Shoyo are two different PERSONALITIES, not two different men. Up until now, about like 50% of the fandom treat him as if he's two whole separate beings which is completely WRONG AND DUMB. He has multiple personality disorder, which is the reason why he started a whole ass school for free, but also somehow wanted to destroy the world. Why? Because he's mentally deranged, are you with me?

And these are the same people, the ones that see him as two different characters, sometimes ship these two personalities together, even that is not that important but what's more pressing is that ive seen them end up condoning the problematic ships in the fandom, like you just got to ship him with someone and they end up shipping him with his students from Shoka Sonjuku.💀

I'm including all of his disciples from oboro all the way to nobume, he has played parental figure for all of them.

Even though he may have disappeared for around a decade or a lil more, and then returned after they've all grown into adults, it doesn't change the fact that he played a crucial role in raising and influencing the ways they view the world as a parent would.

I'm emphasising on this because ive seen mostly oboro and gintoki as the victims, just because oboro may be a little near to a decade older than the rest of his shoka sonjuku juniors does not mean he was way more mature

Oboro was as young as gintoki when he had met shoyo and had since been learning from shoyo as his teacher/parent.

(oboro is technically blood related to him too since he had shared his blood the moment he saw oboro was dying so that amounts to accepting oboro as his son to me🤷🏽‍♀️ I said the truth didnt I)

Further emphasis on the fact that it was canonically discussed that Utsuro is a grandpa even to incredibly old geezers and he sees them as youngsters, so his shoka sonjuku disciples are technically fetuses to him😭😭😭

This is a man that cannot be shipped with anyone that's just the type of character that he is. I'm not even biased if you look at it from a general perspective you have no choice but to agree.

This particular idea/headcanon or whatever the fuck you wanna call, is a very common conception and dulls HIS(SINGULAR) character to a large extent. Seeing him as the character that he truly is, a mentally ill man that has a profound amount of knowledge, yet is unable to heal himself would make someone appreciate gintama even more, for its habit to cover many topics that are diverse in it.

A man who is torn WITHIN HIMSELF WE ARE SEEING IT THROUGHOUT GINTAMA AND IT GETS KNOCKED INTO OUR HEADS ALL OF THE TIME. And I promise you his character will appear to be much more dynamic, amazing and explosive I guarantee it.

I'm being so honest when I say that seeing him as an individual who's, like, not okay in the head, and how he went about handling these issues, is a much more fun and interesting perspective as well, in my opinion.

But I think a lot of people can't wrap their head around the fact that he has multiple personality disorder. I've seen a lot of people say, "oh, he's a bad character, his character doesn't make sense, especially when he comes back as a villain." However it's understandable since Multiple personality disorder is a very complex and tricky issue to understand

To the theories that Utsuro's plot and actions don't make sense, YES it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't make sense because he's unpredictable. Why? Because he's not okay psychologically and psychological imbalance can lead to irrational decisions(to put it in a summary)

Multiple personality disorder is one of the disorders that's considered like the apex of instability because the person themselves do not have control over it, due to how affected the person has been. And MPD IS ALSO UNPREDICTABLE ASH.

(Shoyo did claim he was planning to run away for a while to Oboro but a man that's been running this organisation for centuries suddenly taking this decision in a span of a few short years can contribute to this MPD)

Even the characters in the show couldn't tell what he was gonna do at all until the end(at least up till the finale). They couldn't tell what he was gonna do. Why? Because he's unstable and, the distinct contrast between the era where he was their Sensei to becoming the destroyer of the universe is like a slap to the face.

He's not okay in any sort of way, actually, which is why he's more traumatized than the average human could ever be. So it makes sense that he's very unpredictable and his actions don't make sense.

His whole character is actually a genius, sorachi was cooking when he introduced him because there are so many underlying facts that stem out to many aspects surrounding human suffering all the way till the cycle of life that intertwine with his character

AND so much intricacies to the way his character is shaped, which is considered complex. THAT is the reason why he's underrated and half of the time people call him a bad character/two different people because they have zero media literacy and they won't accept anything else beyond what they already know

(for example the variety and different ways psychological repression can be expressed)

I just know the reason he is not as famous or talked about often like aizen, sukuna, johan etc is because of his complications and so many many many aspects to his character that needs more research and more observation to be understood. The perplexity in this aspect of his contributes to him being overshadowed and underrated.

These mentioned characters are amazing villains in and of themselves but what makes utsuro specifically stand apart is his absurd backstory and the disorder that he had developed due to said past lives. It's not common for us to see villains with multiple personality disorder is it?

Hence my reason as to why people should probably take more time to understand his character, scratch that if you just watched it with an open mind at first I think you'll get his character's purpose and actions fast enough.

The same applies for gintama as a whole, the best way to watch it is with an open and empty mind, especially so that you won't miss the nuances and other areas that build gintama's characters.

In this case Shoyo requires us to really observe his actions and be able to understand why he is taking such drastic and contradictory measures no matter what he does.

It's just that Sorachi never really bothers to tell it to our faces or really jumbles it up here and there and we're left to pick up the puzzle pieces😭

E.g. The finale where it was only confirmed in an interview that it was takasugi reborn and it has other metaphors in it as well or smth😭

Shoyo's backstory and trauma leading which ultimately lead to the state of his psychological state:

When some people are like, "yeah, yeah, it's just two different characters". It takes away a really important aspect of his character. Believe me or not, his mental illness plays a really important role in the major events of Gintama.

That's due to the fact that THIS IS THE SAME MAN, THE ONE AND ONLY ONE, that raised the main characters and antagonists of the show, but also was the one who committed mass genocide, wanted to destroy the universe, etc. Why? Because of his multiple personality disorder.(STAY WITH ME)

And why did this MPD come about? Because of his extreme suffering and trauma, And to cope with that, he got MPD. So when people are like, "yeah, it's just two different people". You're missing an extremely vital part to his character,

and putting up a wall from understanding the various intricacies to his characterization including when you treat this mentioned miserable man like he's split into half and somehow is a pair of twins now like be fr w me💀

(it is much less entertaining than how his character is actually portrayed and it ruins his character, it dumbs down the unique qualities of him and lumps him in with the rest of some mediocre villains in shonen manga.)

(It somehow also dims the fun and variety of gintama and majorly makes shoyo ooc, like I said, seeing his character the way he has been given is without a doubt the one and only best way to view him and it's much more fulfilling)

Sorachi himself has joked about how this one man's confusing character can be mistaken as two different people due to their contrasting traits, but as explained in this panel as well,

in any media actually a character with MPD is often treated as if the person is two separate entities for a more easier understanding and mostly comic relief (in this instance as well in the 3-z segment). However it is still enforced that these oddly contrasting sides came from one singular brain, it is already enforced in the very same sentence of this dialogue in the panel shown above as well.

Sorachi already summarizes up his whole characters misconception in that dialogue for you 😭 Bro really wrapped it all up with an abrupt bang

it's just one singular man, who has multiple personality, or in this case just two personalities warring with each other that leads to the self sabotage hes doing rn in this panel😭😭😭

it is One man who has split his mind into many segments which have manifested to become two polar opposites of his mind, yet both are HIS thoughts,emotions and ideals.

To help provide an easier understanding,

The average human has many voices running in their minds, and are always contradicting one another like there are different personas living in our heads, however it is to a controlled level and we are able to distinguish these to a certain extent when making decisions and taking actions.

Multiple personality disorder stems from that same phenomena of the brain but multiplied by many many more folds due to psychological trauma, PTSD, and repression of emotions as a method to cope with said trauma

✯Yoshida shoyo is without a doubt an S tier character and villain as well

Hmmm not to be political or anything😭, but you're really undervaluing and undermining the issues of someone who's extremely mentally ill and deranged😟, and the fact such individuals need professional help to overcome their trauma and recover.

But then you're just twisting this problem into your own superficial convenience at the expense of an incredibly full-fledged character and a unique characterization. I truly think some media which has been as long-standing and entertaining as gintama should be appreciated at a straightforward and honest level.

Especially when the topic touches on mental health and trauma, trauma recovery. Gintama covers a lot of other topics like LGBTQ, beauty standards, Social outcasting, etc as well and I don't see us talking too much about it.

However I also think sorachi himself also could have dealt with the topics more extensively instead of glossing over in some places, still, this is mostly a comedy manga and is for shits and giggles, so I can't really expect a thorough run through of every topic covered. This can also be seen when he has many side characters that are loved but we still did not get enough screentime of time.

E.g. Katsura, Sakamoto, Nobume etc

Open your eyes and process the information you're receiving please🙄. Blatant disregard of the trauma here can come off as inconsiderate and insensitive, you're just treating him as two whole different people, like he's possessed or something, your honour.🤨

(Very derogatory to people affected by MPD by rejecting their inner turmoil as just another human being coming from them out of nowhere instead of addressing the complexities of the human brain that are still yet to be uncovered)

This isn't the 16th century where mental illness is treated like you've got a ghost in you or you've secretly been replaced by a clone.

This is NOT a yuji and Sukuna situation. Hes just one man, one soul, one mind, that mind is just broken into many pieces(personalities), because of his extreme suffering.

So please understand that okay just appreciate the mentally ill men representation smfh. I LOVE BROKEN TRAUMATISED MEN REPRESENTATION PLEASE

***IMPORTANT NOTE

TO CLARIFY multiple personality comes under dissociative disorders, considering how his life was, his mind coping with his trauma using this method makes the most sense

Of course trauma can cause many disorders like schizophrenia and what not, but this kind of like the apex of it

Makes sense given the amount of unimaginable horrors he has been put through. Therefore to put it simply he's completely torn within himself, but its just one source NOT a whole new other identity/man coming outta nowhere

And that same persona is DEFINITELY NOT something that shoyo himself cannot understand, he VERY WELL knows himself and all his different identities

(As shown when he clearly has his memories with all of his shoka sonjuku disciples even when he became utsuro) -> e.g. uses his past personification and sayings to taunt gintoki during a fight

He is completely aware of his nature, its just out of his control because of all the overwhelming psychological trauma (this leading to the reason on why he switched back to utsuro after his execution)

NOTE: MY ANALYSIS POST ON WHY SHOYO IS A VIRGIN ALSO COVERS THIS TOPIC TO AN EXTENT IT CAN HELP GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING THATS ALL BYE BYE GO CHECK IT OUT

[samwisethewitch]

I know this isn't the theme of my blog but as 1.) a genderqueer person, who 2.) has a media studies degree, I want to talk real quick about JK Rowling, the idea of separating art from the artist, and why you literally cannot consume media created by JKR without contributing to real harm against real people.

First let's talk about Death of the Author, because I see a lot of people misusing it online. Death of the Author is a theory from postmodern literary criticism that basically says that an author's intentions and personal beliefs shouldn't impact how readers interpret their work. Basically, this means that the author's own interpretation of the work is just as valid as any reader's interpretation, and vice versa.

Critics who subscribe to Death of the Author believe a work should only be judged by what actually appears in the text, not by what the author later claims it "really meant." So if, for example, an author becomes radicalized after publishing her books and later claims that her racist, pseudo-fascist villains were secretly a metaphor for trans people, Death of the Author would tell you that interpretation is utter bullshit and doesn't magically become canon just because the author said it.

I see a lot of people online equate Death of the Author with the concept of "separating art from the artist," but these are separate concepts. Death of the Author just means that the author's own interpretation of their work isn't any more valid than the audience's. Separating art from artist means we as an audience can appreciate a person's artistic achievements without condoning all of their actions and beliefs. So, for example, I can appreciate that HP Lovecraft revolutionized horror fiction while also acknowledging that he was horrifically racist -- and me condemning his racism doesn't change how influential his work was.

Setting aside that there's a huge debate over whether it's even possible to separate art from artist, the main difference between HP Lovecraft and JKR is that Lovecraft is dead and has in fact been dead for so long that his work is in the public domain. That means no matter how many times I read his work, watch films based on his stories, or talk about his role in the history of modern horror fiction, he doesn't make a penny. Whether I engage with his work or not does not change the fact that Lovecraft is dead and is not getting any money from me.

JKR very much is making money off people engaging with her work, and she's openly using that money to hurt people. (See here, here, here) As long as she's raking in Harry Potter dollars, she is going to keep turning around and funneling them into hate.

I don't want this post to get too long, so here's a quick rundown of some of the defenses I've seen and why they don't work:

"I only watch the movies on streaming services! I've already paid for the subscription, so it doesn't matter what I watch with it." That's not how streaming services work. Streaming services track views to determine what content is worth throwing more money at. This is why "hate watching" makes no sense. Streaming services don't care if you like what you watch. They only care about how many viewers it brings in, and if something gets a lot of watchers, they're going to renew contracts, greenlight sequels and spinoffs, and give more royalties to the creator.

"I only watch the movies when they run on cable." Again, not how this works. Like streaming services, cable networks track views to determine what programs are bringing in the most viewers. The reason these networks run the HP movies so often is because they know people will tune in to watch, which makes them more money. They're going to keep paying for rights to run these movies until they stop bringing in viewers.

"I checked out the books from my library! I thought we were supposed to support our local libraries!" In general, yes, libraries are great, but they also operate on supply and demand. That means if books are consistently checked out and have a long wait list, the library is much more likely to order new copies to meet the demand.

"I grew up on Harry Potter."/"It's my favorite book series."/Other appeals to nostalgia. Thankfully, the HP books genuinely don't actually do anything that hadn't already been done well, if not better, by other authors. If you're craving fictional wizard schools, allow me to recommend Equal Rites by Terry Pratchett and A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin.

Last but not least, I want to remind everyone that JKR also publishes adult fiction under the pen name Robert Galbraith. Don't buy, rent, or borrow Galbraith books either.

[alfredsolos]

I don't like how some writers bash or exaggerate the other batkids' behaviour and personalities in order to whumpify their favorite batfam member.

If Dick Grayson is the main character in the fic, then every other batfam member are suddenly incapable of doing the most simplest tasks and ask Dick to help them. He solves every single problem of his family because he is the 'eldest'. And he always puts a smile on his face and let's them treat him like shit.

Yes, it is true that Dick has more responsibility compared to his siblings. Not because he is the eldest; but because he has to keep an entire city safe all by himself, mentor teen sidekicks, lead the Titans, go on missions with the JL and so on. And he does this not because he has to, but because he wants to.

Also he may be more emotionally open than rest of his siblings, but thats just it. Compared to his siblings. Nightwing says puns and jokes yeah, but he is not at all can be classified as emotionally vulnurable. Dick led and mentored so many teams, and you can't do that while being light hearted and smiley all the time.

Dick is serious and firm when needed to. He doesn't baby any of his siblings (especially Damian), or act like an angel all the time. He has anger management issues and does not take bullshit from anyone. Not even his family.

He lives in Bludhaven to get away from the craziness that is Gotham. He loves his family, but he simply does not have the patience to deal with them all the time.

When the fic is about Jason, most of the plot is about him being dead and how Bruce betrayed him by replacing him. That Dick threw him in Arkham and everyone treats him like a monster.

Well firstly, Jason is not all about his death. He doesn't really bring it up unless he wants to make a point to Bruce.

Jason doesn't hate Tim because he replaced him. Jason hates Bruce, for taking in another Robin when the first one actively get murdered because of it. He beat Tim up to prove to him and Bruce that taking in a child, and making him his partner is seriously wrong. Jason hates the idea of kids becoming soldiers for a war they didn't start.

Another point is that after Jason came back from the dead, he wasn't an anti-hero. He was a full on villain that tried to kill most of the Batfamily. And no I'm not talking about him beating Tim up in the Titans tower (It was to send a message to Bruce) or cutting his throat (which he didn't. It was a small scratch):

I'm talking about Battle for the Cowl, when he beat Tim up badly because he refused to be his Robin. Jason thought Tim was dead at the end of their fight (Tim slowed down his heartbeat). And this is his reaction:

And yet again in Battle for the Cowl, he shot Damian. Which resulted him getting more than 70 stitches:

Also this was his reaction when a nuclear powered supervillain blew up Bludhaven:

He poisoned 82 inmates while 'Dick sent poor Jason into prison :('

Now does this mean Jason is a bad character? Fuck no! Infact he is one of my favorite characters. Jason is such an interesting character and sometimes you can't help but condone his mistakes no matter how bad they are. Even I do this.

So what I mean is that, we should stop babying him and see him as the flawed character he is. Every single character has their own flaws and that's what makes them special.

Jason was a hero, then a villain, then an anti-hero, then again a hero.

Also he doesn't get pit episodes. The only time he got one was right after getting out of the pit. Lazarus pit did not made him violent and it's not the blame for Jason's past actions. Jason was awake and aware of the things he did. And he feels guilty. But he learned to forgive. Both himself and Bruce.

Our next member is Tim Drake. Fanon Tim Drake is a coffee addict, he is thin and small, is quiet and doesn't believe he is apart of the family. Dick stole Robin from him and gave it to 'evil and cruel' Damian who bullies him every time they interact. Jason always calls him replacement and threatens to kill him most of the time. Dick is a monster that tried to lock him up in Arkham.

God I cringed writing this. Anyways firstly Tim is, in fact, not a coffee addict. I'd say he is more of a tea person and only drinks coffee to stay awake.

Tim is not short and all skin and bones. He eats properly and is very muscled. Especially around his back and biceps. He is also not short either.

Tim is quiet, yes. But not in a shy way. He is cold and calculative and sometimes a little apathatic. He isn't scared to do what's necessary and is always ready to sacrifice himself for the sake of the mission. He also definitely sees himself apart of the family.

Another really misunderstood point is that Dick took Robin from him, when it was actually Alfred who gave Damian the Robin suit.

Yes, Damian tried to kill him multiple times and it was very traumatising for Tim. But they do get along most of the time. In fact Tim may be the second closest to Damian among the family. Because no matter what happens he loves his little brother. As it was shown when he hallucinated and hugged Damian after he died.

Jason and him may be at odds from time to time, but Jason gets along with him more than most of his siblings.

And Dick most certainly did not try to put him in Arkham. Bruce was dead and Dick saw Tim. How devastated he was, so he offered him to get therapy. Like a good brother would do.

Last but not least is Damian. I think most of the time Damian centric fics manage to represent him properly. But let's start with the ones that are the most cliche-d and wrongly written.

Damian talks the Queen's British and is spoiled. Dick Grayson is his actual father and Bruce always insults him. He trains all day and goes to patrol at night. He hates his mother, always gets his ass handed to him in a fight. Tim Drake treats him horribly and everyone calls him Demon or Demon Brat. Jason is the best brother in the world and him and Dick always protect him from Bruce's wrath. Alfred annoyes him and Damian doesn't really care about him. All of his personality is summed up with: "Yes, Father."

In actuality, Damian is most of the time sassy or straight up mocking. He uses slangs and isn't scared of disrespecting Ra's or Talia and Bruce (in fact he may be enjoying it a little).

Dick Grayson is in fact not his father figure. That title belongs to Alfred, who was always there whenever he needed him.

Damian plays video games and his favorite one is cheese vikings.

He also loves his mother and forgives her even through all does horrible things she does to him. He is most likely conditioned to feel that way. Because it's not normal to treat someone normally after they murder you. He is also an exceptionally good fighter.

Tim Drake is possibly his second closest sibling. They banter and fight sometimes, yes. But they still very much care for each other. When Tim was thought to be dead, Damian was shown to be holding his bo staff and mourning.

Him and Jason were never close. Jason tried to kill him and so did Damian. They don't know each other well and Damian does not want to; since at the time he was Robin, Jason was a villain that actively tried to hurt him and Dick.

I don't think anyone ever called him a Demon Brat. Or if they did it was probably like one time, since I couldn't find any panels that refer to him that way.

Damian is the most rebellious and hot headed Robin. He doesn't shy from saying what wants or stepping up to Bruce. In fact those two are the ones who fight the most in the family. Even more than Tim and Damian.

And Bruce doesn't always insult or bench him. He just straight up ignores him or his needs and always puts him in second.

There are obviously way more than these, but I'll stop for today. No hate to the creators, this is just my own opinion.