#adrien's rants

[greennymphs]

wait a minute ive been gone so long a pack came out??? tf

[wingeddistortion]

i feel like the autistic experience is all about being obsessed with video game soundtracks to the point where theyre number 1 in your spotify wrapped

[alteanroyals]

no because marinette falling in love with adrien meant having to go completely against her instincts since he is not only chloe's friend but also her longest and best friend (at the time). she has literal trauma from the way chloe has treated her and the whole situation with kim the previous year. she has vowed to never fall in love with someone who is friends with chloe

AND YET

she just can't help but fall in love with adrien agreste. now her reaction when they meet for the first time in origins makes even more sense than before. she doesn't want to like him, she can't.

but adrien's true personality and intentions always shine through because THAT'S JUST HOW GOOD AND KIND OF A PERSON HE IS

and marinette sees this and she gives him a chance and a place in her heart because THAT'S JUST HOW GOOD AND KIND OF A PERSON SHE IS

and to top it all off adrien just keeps and keeps on REASSURING marinette that she was right in trusting him. but not just now that he knows what happened with kim. ever since season 1 he has steadily learned to stand up to chloe and put her in her place. and now? he has cut ALL ties with her, both because it's the right thing to do and to protect marinette and her feelings

adrien has always been fighting marinette's fears and insecurities without realizing it but now he is doing it intentionally and in the sweetest and most gentle way possible, always respecting her, waiting for her and letting her take the lead

i love them so much your honor pls i need them to be happy

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Keep hearing people say maribug keep asking adricat if he's ok and he keep saying he's ok instead of telling her his problem but I don't remember it happened more than once in s4 in Rockettear but even then the circumstances of that episode did warrant the "nothing" answer he gave her unless he want to tell her that "nino tell me you let nino and alya know each other identity" which will reveal adricat identity. So when else did she ask? about the thing in hack-san, I think another credit goes to alya since she's the one who bring the topic to maribug who seems to be blissfully unaware that her leaving without telling adeicat that she send subtitute would be a problem.

I didn't get into this side of things in my other post because it was long and I wanted to focus on why Chat Noir's behavior was so frustrating, but this ask brings up the other big reason why the season four conflict was such a frustrating and terribly written plot line. Specifically, the part of your ask where you point out that Maribug seems blissfully unaware that her actions are having a negative impact on Chat Noir until someone points it out to her.

Yes, she is presented as blissfully unaware of this and every other interpersonal conflict we're given in season four. Your ask treats this as a failing on Maribug's part as if she should have obviously realized that she was in the wrong, but that's the whole problem. Telling kids - telling anyone really - that they should just magically know what others need is a frankly terrible life lesson as that's just not how the world works. You cannot just assume that everyone will have the same view of the world as you do and instantly pick up on the same issues as you do. That is the path to easily avoidable frustration and conflict. It also teaches people to assume that their view of the world is inherently correct when that is rarely the case. We often don't know the whole story and the other person's point of view may end up being equally or even more valid. This issue is extremely present in season four as Marinette has legitimate reasons to behave the way she does, which I'll get into in a bit.

If Marinette were written as feeling guilty about how she was treating Chat Noir, then this would be a different story. She'd be way more in the wrong and would shoulder a much greater portion of the blame. But as is? She has no idea that she's doing anything wrong. And until someone takes the time to tell her that her actions are causing harm, she is going to continue causing harm because she has no idea that she's causing harm.

In fact, I'd argue that the Alya thing in Hack San is a point in Maribug's favor. Throughout the episode, we see Marinette sending Alya messages on ways to be a good partner to Chat Noir, proving that she does in fact care about him. And then, as soon as Alya says, "You need to talk to Chat Noir," what does Maribug do?

She goes and talks to Chat Noir, giving him a pretty good apology for the problem she now knows she caused. Because, shockingly, Maribug doesn't actually want to hurt her partner. She also clearly cares about his feelings, making me want to take the season four conflict and tear it into itty bitty pieces because what is the conflict even supposed to be when you write shit like this?

I want to briefly step away from Miraculous and talk about this issue in a broader context via this YouTube short:

This short is from a Vietnamese woman who moved to Germany. Her YouTube channel is about her experiences there, including things like the short above which goes into the differences between what it means to be a dinner guest in Vietnam and what it means to be a dinner guest in Germany. In Vietnam, it's apparently standard for the guests to cook dinner with you where as, in Germany, you're expected to have the meal ready when the guests arrive, making this a situation where it's super easy to come across as rude just by doing what you think is normal.

Society is relatively aware that these types of culture clashes are a thing, but you don't have to be from different cultures to have these types of situations. Every person has their own unique needs and ideas of what "normal" is. The culture they were raised in will affect this, but so will their family, their personal needs, and many other factors. Two people can be raised on the same street and wind up with wildly different world views even though they supposedly share a culture. This is extra true when you add in compounding factors like neurodiversity, which is why it's an exercise in futility to say, "But Maribug should have realized..."

Well, she clearly didn't. And you can't change that she didn't realize whatever you're mad about. All you can do is have someone tell her what she's doing wrong. If she then continues the behavior, go ahead and judge away. But if she immediately corrects it like she did in Hack San? Doesn't that just prove that she truly didn't know that Chat Noir was hurting and would have probably fixed all of his problems if someone just pointed them out to her?

This is only exacerbated by the fact that Marinette's behavior in season four is largely unchanged from her behavior in previous seasons. The only major change is that she revealed her identity to Alya, but as soon as that's pointed out as a problem, she course corrects with an apology. After that, she thinks that everything is okay because why wouldn't she? Chat Noir said it was fine and everything else has been business as usual.

Bringing temp heroes into help as needed? That's been going on since season two. Having these additional members has been vital in multiple battles and there have been plenty of times where Chat Noir took a background role to the temp hero of the day like in Sapotis, Rena Rouge's season two debut. So why would Maribug suddenly think that this dynamic is a problem when it's been working fine for so long? We even had a whole episode about how Chat Noir was still needed in spite of the new heroes back in season three! Or, at least, I think that was Desperada's message? This show is shockingly bad at giving clear lessons.

Keeping guardian knowledge from Chat Noir? That's also been going on since season two and was even treated as a conflict that supposedly got resolved in the episode Syren which was the episode that ended with Master Fu coming to the mansion to talk to Adrien after everything was over.

When I watched that episode, I assumed this meant that Chat Noir was going to be more involved in things like picking the temp heroes. I actually thought this was how we were going to get Queen Bee because I knew she was going to be a thing, but it made no sense for Marinette to pick Chloe for a miraculous. Of course, I was wrong. Nothing changed after Syren. Chat Noir remained nothing more than the comic relief while Ladybug got all the insider info.

To be clear, I think that was a terrible move writing wise, but it doesn't change the fact that this is what they went with. This is the established dynamic. I can't even say that Alya learning Marinette's secret led to something new. She's just taken Marinette's old role while Marinette has taken on Master Fu's old role. This show loves it's status quo and Chat Noir has been at least tolerant of that status quo since Syren, so it's not surprising that Maribug doesn't register that this is a thing that should change and no one bothers to point it out to her even though she has a mentor in Tikki (and Su Han, I guess?) and a confidant in Alya and a whole slew of Kwamis who could also provide insight if they were allowed to do that sort of thing. (Sass and Wayzz were robbed of mentor roles.) Additional blame goes to Plagg because he should absolutely have told Adrien to talk to Ladybug. What is the point of giving these characters mentors who never mentor? It's aggravating in the extreme.

To circle back to the first part of your ask, outside of Hack San and Rocketear, I don't think there are any times when Ladybug invites feedback from Chat Noir unless you want to give credit to the end of Kuro Neko:

Cat Noir: (lands next to her) I've been a really temperamental kitty, m'lady. I didn't realize how much trouble I'd make for you by giving back my Miraculous. Ladybug: (sits closer to him) Just because I don't need you all the time doesn't mean that I don't need you at all, Cat Noir. No one could ever replace you.

Which isn't Maribug inviting him to tell her what's up, but she is clearly willing to listen to him and reassure him, further backing up my point about this conflict being some of the worst writing I've ever had to suffer through. If Maribug always fixes the issue as soon as she learns about it, you are not writing a situation where she's clearly in the wrong. You are writing an easily solved communication issue where she gets blamed for something she clearly doesn't realize she's doing wrong and it is so frustrating!!! I feel so bad for her. The next episode is Penalteam, btw, which starts the battle with this gem:

Ladybug: (laughs) Nice scare tactics, but it's not gonna work. Cat Noir and I are the best at soccer! Cat Noir: (Whispers to Ladybug) I don't know a thing about soccer M'lady. Maybe it's time to call the real team?

And basically just spends the whole episode making Chat Noir seems like a worthless partner while Maribug tries her best to make him - and everyone else - feel special.

Oh, and the episode before Kuro Neko? Well, it's technically Ephemeral, but that got magically overwritten so let's go one further back and we get to Dearest Family, which ends with this:

Cat Noir: (grabs a golden paper crown on the coffee table) Since I'm the king, (wears the crown on his head) would you be my queen, Ladybug? Ladybug: With pleasure, kitty cat! Tradition is tradition!

Oh yes, these two are in such conflict and Maribug does nothing to validate Chat Noir. He's in pain every episode and she's just totally oblivious to it.

If that was what they wrote, then I'd probably agree that we needed more instances of her asking if Chat Noir was okay. But it's not what they wrote. If you look through the list of season four episodes, you'll find that less than half of them deal with the supposed conflict of the season (by my count, only 8 of the 24 episodes before the final actually showcase the conflict and they are not in a logical order in terms of escalation as I tried to demonstrate above). The rest of the episodes flat out ignore it or even straight up work against the conflict like when Ladybug says this to Chat Noir in Guilttrip: "I probably don't tell you this enough, but I couldn't do this without you. And it'd be a lot less fun too."

Seriously, what even is this season? What is the conflict supposed to be? Because it sure as shit isn't Maribug undervaluing Chat Noir, if memory servers, season four sees her validate him more times than any other season. And it isn't her guiltily hiding things from him like so many fanfics claim because we have multiple points of evidence that prove that she's completely oblivious that there even is a conflict. So what conflict are the writers actually trying to write?

What's even more baffling is that none of this logically leads to the loss at the end of the season:

Maribug's new secrets didn't lead to her downfall. The only reason she lost was because of the secret that's always been there - a fact that's never revealed to her - and a freaking evil twin! So why did it matter that Maribug was keeping secrets? This is made even worse by season five maintaining all of the secrets, once again begging the question of what lesson were we trying to teach here???

Chat Noir wasn't needed for the final fight of the season, Maribug only needed the powers of a few of the temp heroes to win, a baffling ending to a season whose focus was Chat Noir feeling unimportant. You could scrap that conflict entirely and the ending would not change. In fact....

Adrien quitting to be nothing more than a good little boy who obeys his father would have actually saved the world from eventually being rewritten. If you think about it, the season four final actually punishes Adrien for being defiant. So does season five as, if Chat Noir had quit, his father would still be alive. I thought this show was supposed to be a romcom, not a tragedy. Why is Adrien being punished for being a hero? Is this supposed to be karma for lying to Ladybug with the whole Catwalker thing?

This shit is why I say I'm a writing salt, character sugar blog. I can't get mad at the characters when they're in such a nonsense story where things never logically tie together. They all deserve so much better.

None of this is meant to imply that ignorance is a blanket excuse for hurting others. Nor is it meant to imply that you have to forgive someone who hurt you just because they didn't mean to. There's a ton of nuance around these topics. But season four acknowledges none of that nuance while creating a situation that desperately needed nuance because there was no clear right and wrong here. Should Maribug work to be more aware of others feelings? Sure, but that journey can only start after she's made aware of her faults and no one ever points them out to her. Does Chat Noir need to work on clearly communicating his needs? Desperately, but no one is teaching him that lesson so he remains a terrible communicator who suffers in silence. What impressively bad writing.

[artistzjay]

You know what I find really interesting, annoying, and frustrating all at the same time?

How people dumb down characters to make the other characters look good.

Or when they take away all of the bad traits from one character to make that character liked but amplify the other party’s bad qualities or add bad qualities that doesn’t exist.

As in basically making them OCs.

Like how they make a characters in Miraculous Ladybug worse than what they are and how they make Marinette the most amazing person on earth when she literally broke into Adrien’s house multiple times and stalked him on multiple occasions.

Yet the fandom is creating such fiction that will reconstruct the entirety of the show, especially the salt fanfiction, making the class to be such bullies because of Lila, like making Alya some kind of angry, irrational dog or Adrien some kind of really creepy dude, when, in reality, Marinette, actually the creep all because of the chameleon episode.

Is Alya not the best of friends? Yes.

Was Adrien’s advice to Marinette stupid? In my opinion, yes.

Did they make the characters dumb (dumber than usual) in chameleon? Yes.

Marinette is a kid but her classmates around e also children and her crimes are much bigger than their in the show and the fanfic is just making it seem like her crimes are not existent.

Or in DC fanfiction where they make characters like the Green Lantern or The Flash or Superman incredibly dumb or incredibly incompetence for the Bats.

Then, in reality, Hal graduated top of his class and has (what I believe are) a aviation degree and engineering degree, working on extremely complex projects of aircraft, Barry is a forensic chemist and literally works on crime scenes, or Clark who is literally a reporter who won two Pulitzers awards, works at one of the best newspapers in the industry/world, and does amazing work on his stories

And all of them have use their intelligence to defeat their enemies bigger than themselves, but writers just throw it all away to make them complete blundering idiots or just straight up a-holes for Batman and his family.

Just complete disregard for the characters quality in who they are and what they stand for.

[salfishersimp2]

I am here today to talk about marinette's school.

THERE'S NO WAY THATS PUBLIC SCHOOL

So, obviously, its a rich kids school

Lets go through the list

Chloe - daughter of the literal fucking mayor and a celebrity (i cant care enough to remember what her mom does)

Adrien - model and son of (apparently) Paris' only fashion designer (have you seen any other posters with other models in that show? Yeah, me neither)

Marinette - daughter of the owners of a very well known bakery (we're not even gonna mention how many contests she's won, and my girl designed an album cover for jagged stone, but thats out of topic)

Alya - daughter of the chef who works in the mayor's hotel

Sabrina - daughter of a police officer (idk about police ranks and shit but i'll bet my ass he makes a good amount of money)

Juleka - daughter of Jagged Stone (if he pays child support, there's no way a rock star like him is giving little money to raise his children) (oh yeah and THEY LIVE IN A FUCKING BOAT. That cant be cheap)

Alix - daughter of a guy who is in charge of most things at THE LOUVRE (he works there, and it seems like that to me)

Mylene - her dad starred in a movie, i am pretty sure thats not something that happens every day

Zoe - again, step daughter of the mayor, daughter of a celebrity

Kagami - i'm not sure what her mom does but the point is she's rich (i love kagami so much but i havent watched mlb for years and im only getting back to it now, what kagami's mom does is not important)

Thats as far as my memory goes, i don't know if we've seen the rest of the class' family

Plus, i think at least 2 celebrities have been to their school one day or another, i could be wrong tho

[nixthelapin]

I don’t think enough people realize that Origins Pt. 1 & 2 happen on the same day

In French schools, they have a long lunch break, so lots of kids just go home for that time then come back. Seriously, they get like 90min- 2hours! (Which blows my mind as an American, who only got 30 minutes for my lunch break)

So when Adrien runs away again to school, the stuff that went on with the seats, the hurt from Kim taunting Ivan, Marinette’s insecurity about being picked as Ladybug, is still fresh! They didn’t even have the night to process it!

I just still see a lot of people who discuss origins talk about pt. 2 as “the next day,” when really it’s just the afternoon, so I thought I’d make a post finally lol

This has been a short PSA, thank you.

EDIT: ok, turns out I am a moron. I am being torn in the replies 😭 The amount of time for lunch in French schools is true, so I just took that info and went with it lol- I definitely should’ve just rewatched the episodes instead of being stupid, my bad y’all 😂

[mari-monsta]

It honestly really baffles me when people say adrien is a boring or simple character, I don’t understand where that comes from at all. Because I think the main reason he’s so compelling are his complexities, but in the same vein those complexities I think make him someone very easy to relate to. Like it’s fine if he’s not likable or relatable to everyone but saying he’s not complex is really just ???? To me. Just looking at how DIFFERENTLY he acts around different people and situations is so fascinating to me. Of course everyone takes different personas and highlights different aspects of their personality around different people but adrien is the king of doing it around the same people to the extent of which having his two personalities be the same is laughable to those who know him personally in his everyday life.

But it’s not out of no where, seeing his home life and the kind of person he’s made out to be by his situation it’s not hard at all to understand that he’s a person who is immensely self conscious. He’s constantly gauging others perception of him and whether or not he is “safe”. What’s more fascinating is the entirely different way this comes out in chat noir. Because adriens personality as chat noir is also deliberate to a certain extent but it’s deliberate in the way that that’s how he wants others to see him. He wants to see self assured and larger than life because in his everyday life he feels small and self conscious. The fact that this dichotomy is so easy to follow in his character but creates such a black and white image in his two personalities is so interesting!

Another thing I find completely fascinating about him are his high empathy and how that actually fucks him up more often than not. He’s acutely aware of how other people might be feeling and can easily sympathize. At the same time though he has a hard time understanding certain social cues and situations and seems very out of his element. I don’t think these things conflict at all. Adrien is someone who easily puts himself in other peoples shoes and can imagine and have sympathy for their situation, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to pick up on the social complexities of every interaction every time. Emotions aren’t the same as communication and when it comes to the later adrien works best with simple and straight forward interactions.

In the same vein because of his aforementioned situations he’s also a character who has a lot of repressed anger and frustration that has been building up for a very long time. In his everyday life, he feels powerless, small, and insignificant. He doesn’t have faith that anyone would listen to his thoughts and feelings and actually take them into account, because by all of his experiences no one really has. This creates a defense mechanism where he shuts himself out before he even gets to the point of sharing how he really feels. We see this really easily in his relationship with Nino. He loves Nino DEARLY, but there is something that we have seen in him constantly putting up walls emotionally. He won’t tell him when he doesn’t find something funny, he won’t tell him if he’s unhappy to do something even when it greatly affects his life because he is at his core afraid Nino will not validate those emotions.

As a result, all the frustration he’s built up from feeling powerless in his everyday life we see just. Randomly bursting out of him in inopportune moments as chat noir. It’s not that adrien is such a violent or angry person normally. But he’s so used to repressing and modulating his emotions regularly that when he feels somewhat safe to express any frustration ALL of the anger he feels constantly bubbling under the surface all of the time just suddenly rushes out, like a dam holding back hundreds of gallons of water. This happens repeatedly, and then as soon as he’s realized he’s let himself get out of control he immediately feels immense guilt and he stops the dam up even tighter. This is obviously not a healthy feedback loop but it’s fucking FASCINATING!!!!

A common thing that I feel like I see fans often misinterpret about his character in my own opinion is just how PRIVATE of a person adrien is. Adrien loves sharing his love and appreciation for those around him because he knows how it feels not to know, not to be sure of that affection. But in the same token, Adrien rarely if ever actually shares his real feelings with those he’s close to. He doesn’t like people prying into his life or his feelings and he is very private about most things. We don’t see him talking about what he likes, we don’t see him sharing with his friends his anger or frustration. And in the end Adrien is the one character who has kept his secrets most closely held to his vest. This is all despite being so grandiose and loud mouthed as chat noir. Even as chat noir, adrien rarely is entirely open about things going on in his life.

To me Adrien as a character isn’t interesting or compelling because he is shy or cute or sweet, but because there are a number of different facets to his personality that I can easily see reasons for and understand where his feelings come from. He IS sweet, but not without misplaced anger, not without repression, not without mistakes and messy emotions. Not without pain that we can both easily see the roots of but also have a wide spread variety of consequences from. We see how his formative experiences affect every aspect of his life even in ways he audience wouldn’t necessarily expect, but make complete sense. That’s so fun and interesting to me!!!! Let characters be messy but try their best anyways!!! Let characters hurt each other and try to put the pieces back together one shard at a time. People have complicated emotions that come out in ways we can’t always foresee or help, people make mistakes because of that. But despite everything adrien is a character who cares deeply for those around him and tries to do right by them despite all the rest of it, and despite sometimes not really knowing how.

It’s things like that that keep miraculous being an extremely engaging and compelling story to me. Most of the general things about adriens character are also things that I find interesting about marinettes as well! Of course the intricacies of her character are completely different, but the general hows and whys and complex motivations for her actions while maintaining the best of intentions are what make them both so interesting to me. So this is just a little love letter to adriens character because I wanted to talk about that and why I find him so engaging!

[rainbow-arrow]

"So you don't know me completely either, and yet we're still close friends, right?"

"I don't know what I'd do without you."

the most criminally underrated friendship in this entire show

[ramen8008]

I LOVE aged up Ladynoir dynamic because they are more mature and understand each other to a level that just AHHH!

One of my oldest and most loved Ladynoir head-canons basically goes like this:

Where as they grow older, they grow closer but especially during the time where the og friend group kinda separates because of college and Marinette being Marinette is like "you know what? not having close friends with me helps me focus on college AND ladybug" but she still NEEDS SOMEONE (whether she knows it at the moment or not) .

It gets tougher, the akumas evolve into causing more mental and emotional damage than physical, hawkmoth grows to understand that with their age and jobs it's easier to target their mind. During this time they've grown more independent than they should have. So one night they talk, they explain their situation, they vent to each other and decide that the comfort they feel with one another can't be compared to anything else. That maybe the other is more than just a work friend that they joke with, more than just someone they only see during the most stressful times of the day, maybe it's easier to find a best friend in someone who you've known for most your life, who you've been through thick and thin with, who understands you in ways most might never. So Chat Noir and Ladybug grow closer and closer.

They rant about college and work (Adrien works in his father's company now and did a business course so he doesn't have to model and Marinette has an Etsy shop on the side). They get close and have random night talks where they talk about things no one but them and the night sky will ever hear. Everything they go through as heroes, the ups and downs, and they also talk about fun stuff, learn more about each other, finding out that chat is a part of multiple fandoms, that Ladybug has a horrible bed head and hates that chat doesn't, that they more are more of a romantic at heart than they want to admit. But they also talk about just the struggles and anxiety that comes with their jobs, just how messed up what they went through as kids is now that they see it from an adults point of view, but they also just laugh it off, joke about the trauma some fights inflicted. Nightmares that keep them up, hopes they are too scared to say out loud, sometimes even the fear of losing purpose if hawkmoth is defeated.

There's so much more too. They have the kind of friendship where they make jokes and promises into the night about how if they are always going to be single because of their jobs they'll just get married in their superhero costumes. How ladybug is going to love making chat's kids little clothes and how chat is going to make sure that ladybug gets time with her future partner whenever there's an akuma by handling it for her. All the while not knowing that their feelings for each other keep on growing and growing. It's so huge that it feels like their hearts will combust but it's also constant to the point that they get used to it.

It hits them like a truck yet it's so slow, maybe just talking one night and it hits them that they can't imagine life without the other, that they want the other in a way that's more than what they ever thought, no they've thought of it before, they've jokes about it but never acknowledged the truth this jokes had in them, never acknowledged that over time they became to lean on each other more than just in battles, they became each others partners in more than just fights against akumas, more than in a platonic way. They've always loved each other but their love had grown into something much stronger

P.s. thx @rosekasa for reigniting my Ladynoir head canons and now I'm on a journey to go through all my head canons 🤍

[makiruz]

Since it was pointed out to me that Adrien mortally wounded his own father and he never knew, I now need fanfics of Adrien finding out Gabby was Hawk Moth and realizing that oh shit, I cataclysm my own dad.

Please any of that that you know of, point me in their direction, thank you

[greennymphs]

also its funny that the cc community makes more stuff than the sims team in less time and with less people

like these adults with a 9 to 5, maybe children, are able to create quality stuff every few months AS A HOBBY

[theerurishipper]

Thinking about how Adrien's arc was about finding his self-worth and his independence and learning to let himself be loved unconditionally, and how the narrative undercuts this by proving Gabriel right at every turn.

Thinking about the way Adrien has internalized Gabriel's lessons that love is conditional and dependent on pleasing others, and how Gabriel is proven right, because Adrien's relationship with Ladybug which is meant to be his escape from the expectations others place on him has turned into another part of his life where he has to hide his trauma and his feelings so as to not inconvenience her with them.

Thinking about the way Gabriel's abuse of Adrien hinges on him denying Adrien his freedom and agency to make his own choices under the notion that he is too emotional and incapable of independent thought and controlling him under the guise of "protecting him," and how he is proven to be right, because those who should have been the people he forms relationships with who actually treat him with respect and validate his emotions are also denying him his agency and taking away his ability to choose, thereby making decisions for him, constantly lying to him and hiding things from him, and treating him like he is too emotional to be informed of his own life and should have his emotions be controlled by others, all under the notion that they are "protecting him," but they're doing it out of love so it's okay, thereby validating Gabriel because these were his exact reasonings.

Thinking about how Adrien is dehumanized by Gabriel and treated like a perfect, flawless doll who doesn't get to make choices, who doesn't have needs of his own and only exists to do whatever Gabriel wants of him, and how the narrative goes out to its way to do the same to Adrien as a character, because all he exists for in the show is to be a pretty prize for Marinette, her trophy boyfriend for beating the bad guy, and is not allowed to have any choices or feelings that would get in the way of her own or would inconvenience her in any way.

Thinking about how all Adrien's problems are because of Gabriel, and how the narrative validates Gabriel by making Adrien practically worship him by the end of the season.

Thinking about how the narrative insists that this is all good and fine and wholesome, and how it veers from being just a bad show into straight up abuse apologia, taking large parts of the fandom with it.

Thinking about how Adrien deserved so much better as a character.

[dysfunctionaldogdude]

In any finished work I’m going to have some dumbass mlb screenshot

Likely Slay Noir or Bigfoot Luka

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Why the "True Selves" Theory is Insulting

Image for a second that you have a friend who's a bit of a ditz. She's also fun, creative, and sweet. You enjoy being around her, but you've never seen her as more than a friend. Then, one day, a fire breaks out at an event that you and your friend are attending. Your lives are suddenly in mortal peril and the same goes for everyone around you because you can't find the exit. You think that you're going to die.

Then, suddenly, your friend transforms. Not in a magical way, it's just a personality shift, but it might as well be magical because it's like nothing you've ever seen! The ditziness is gone, replaced by laser focus and a take-charge attitude that has everyone following your friend without question. When all is said and done, everyone lives because of you friend. As it turns out, her tendency to get easily distracted means that she's a fantastic in-the-moment problem solver.

Going through that completely changes how you see this girl. You no longer just like her, no, you're now deeply in love with her. You tell a mutual friend about this and they laugh at you, then say, "Don't be silly, that wasn't really her! Her true self isn't that brave girl who saved your life! That was special circumstances that don't count. All that counts is the way she acts when there isn't a crisis going on. It doesn't matter that you've always liked her and enjoyed her company, if you didn't fall in love with based solely on her ditzy self, then you don't really love her."

Most people would call this mutual friend insane because of course going through crazy experiences changes the way we view people! Imagine if you had an allergic reaction and your significant other's reaction was to panic and run away, leaving you to die. You only live because you manage to grab your phone and call '911.' That would understandably lead many people to reassess if this is the person they want to spend their life with just like the opposite experience might make you see a person as a good life partner.

Marinette is Ladybug. She gets full credit for everything she's done in the suit and it's perfectly fine for Adrien to become attracted to her after he sees her in action. It doesn't mean that he only values her Ladybug side. He quite clearly cares for Marinette, he just hasn't seen her in the right light for him to fall in love. (And, if we're being frank, Marinette acts like Ladybug all the time when he's not around or when he is around, but a crisis is going on. She's really not that different from her alter ego.)

Along similar lines, Marinette isn't wrong for being drawn to Adrien's sweeter side more than his over-the-top jokey side. There's a reason why Glaciator ended with her blushing. Compare the end of Glaciator to the end of Origins and, yeah, same energy because - in that moment - Chat Noir was letting his Adrien side out by being more sincere and vulnerable, which are the things that Marinette values most in a romance and the things that he rarely shows while in the mask. It doesn't mean that she hates his jokey side, it's just not going to win her heart when Adrien's right there being sweet and sincere while Chat Noir hides his feelings behind a smile and a laugh.

In fact, it's pretty insulting to Adrien to say that someone shouldn't be attracted to his more vulnerable side. That his sincerity is worth less than his jokes. Almost as insulting as telling Marinette that her Ladybug side doesn't count and she should get no credit for being brave as that's not really her. Loving her only counts if a person falls in love while she's behaving in her most over-the-top, cringe, embarrassing way.

I don't know about you, but I would never want someone to hold me to that standard nor would I hold my significant other to that standard! It's perfectly normal to have things that you don't love about your significant other. In fact, I'd argue that part of the magic of a real, lasting romance is having someone who loves you even though you're not perfect. If you are looking for a partner who never annoys you or does something wrong, then you will never find happiness because that person does not exist.

Now that I've said all of that, I want to add that I do think that marichat, "love both sides" stories can be cute. It's just not One True Path to Real Love. It's totally fine if the square starts dating based on the things that they find attractive about each other and then just continue to be in love as they learn about the other side. If anything, that's normal. Learning about a person is what dating is all about! A good relationship is no different than a good friendship, you just get some bonus perks if you're into that kind of thing.

I'll also note that I'm not criticizing stories where Marinette feels like she's the "real" version and Ladybug is the fake because that's a really understandable thing to be nervous about. Tikki saying that shit? Hard no. Terrible mentoring.

[maybeinanotherworld]

the other day, i said i was tired of seeing legendre polynomials everywhere and a friend of mine said, with no explanation whatsoever, "le gender polynomials" and i just think that's the funniest thing i have ever heard