#afab transfem discourse

[afabtransfemserver]

AFAB Transfems : Want a community?

Hello reader! If you're interested, you probably are or think you might be transfeminine. The issue for you is that either you were assigned female at birth or were assigned a gender that makes you feel it would be odd for you to call yourself transfeminine.

You've probably felt imposing or unwelcome in transfeminine spaces, maybe you even feel isolated.

Well no longer! For the first time ever, we have a space to gather! The largest AFAB Transfem space ever created, our Discord server. Even if you're on the fence, take a peek and see if you resonate with us, you might just meet others like you for the first time! And you don't even have to be sure about it!

This is not an education server. For safety of our members, only the people described will be permitted to join. We are not here to convince you “why AFAB Transfems are valid”, we hear enough discourse about our existence. We deserve a space to exist within our genders and to relate to others like us free from outside influence. If you personally don't agree with the concept of AFAB transfeminine people, you can ignore this post in its entirety. As important as allies can be to trans communities, we specifically are controversial to the point that allowing outsiders can quickly become hazardous. Even those who state their support will not be allowed unless they consider themselves a potential member of the community. Please do not join to try to learn about us.

We hope to see you there! https://discord.gg/4AJCNQ6gzF

[hailmaryfullofgrace55675]

Witness an assortment of asks sent to a blog that posts anons identifying as AFAB transfems:

You say “these labels aren’t talking about genitals” but clearly a lot of the people identifying with them are talking about genitals, and, more broadly, about having “male” bodies or bodies with features that are considered “male”.

The usual definitions of transfem and transmasc don’t refer to any physical feature: a transfem, in the definition of someone who was assigned male at birth and then transitioned to a more fem identity and/or presentation, could have any genitalia, any hormone balance, and any physical appearance. They could be pre-, post-, or no-HRT, bottom surgery, top surgery, hair removal, and/or FFS. She could be intersex, with any chromosomes, internal anatomy, and endogenous hormone production. There is nothing exclusionary of intersex people about describing social experiences as related to gender assignment, a phenomenon which notably shapes intersex people’s lives.

You say “they’re talking about the intersection of being trans and identifying/presenting in a masc/fem way” as though using “transfem” and “transmasc” to mean “fem” and “masc” is somehow more inclusive and less binarist than using them to mean “assigned… transitioning”. The terms fem and masc already exist, are already used to refer to people’s identities and presentations, and already net plenty of complaints about being binary in concept and use.

The usual definitions of transfem and transmasc encompass people with nonoverlapping identities and presentations! Someone who was assigned male who identifies as a butch woman and presents exactly the way she did before she transitioned now with added pronoun pin can ID as transfem and someone who was assigned male who identifies as an agender femme who dresses like Margot Robbie Barbie can ID as transfem and someone who was assigned male and identifies as a bigender drag queen/king/nonbinary monster and dresses every way they’re physically capable of putting together an outfit can ID as transfem.

You say “it just presents another form of binary thinking if there is no flexibility to these labels” but there is flexibility in these labels! There is ample flexibility and the communities around them are incredibly diverse in identity, presentation, body, and life history. They are not exclusionary of nonbinary people, multigender people, or intersex people, they just each only apply to the nonbinary, multigender, and intersex people who they apply to. You do not do a service to these people by telling them that the functional, consensus definitions of transfem and transmasc exclude them and deprive them of language and hurt them or that the solution is to repurpose those words to mean fem and masc.

FRIENDLY REMINDER:

transfem ≠ a trans amab person

transmasc ≠ a trans afab person

an afab person can be transfem

an amab person can be transmasc

an intersex person can be transfem/transmasc

someone can be transfem and transmasc

these labels aren’t talking about genitals, they’re talking about the intersection of being trans and identifying/presenting in a masc/fem way

I get that we normally use these terms in this way, but it just presents another form of binary thinking if there is no flexibility to these labels, which is pretty ironic considering these labels were made to be inclusive of nonbinary people.

By limiting the meaning of these labels, we only hurt Trans people. We exclude nonbinary people, multigender people, trans intersex people, trans systems, and so many more.

[undertalepilled]

I wish people treated queerness as breaking the rules of the dominant cis-hetero patriarchy so you can authentically be yourself. Instead of adhering to a new slightly less restrictive set of rules which you will deride other people for not following (basically whatever label discourse is now flaring up)

[hiiragi7]

Regardless of what the discourse is, there's a really uncomfortable trend I've noticed regarding the language people use in these discussions.

"Roleplaying", "pretending", "faking", and the usage of "real"/"actual" are all, quite honestly, really inflammatory language and I've never seen it end well.

Even for points I may otherwise somewhat agree with or find interesting, the usage of this language and the act of assuming in/authenticity in this way (as well as the assumption that one can determine who is and is not in/authentic) makes me not want to engage at all, because it's just a very cruel way of framing it to me. I've seen this language really hurt people. I've seen people really spiral and become suicidal over it. It's not language that should be tossed around.

[intersexability]

Here’s your friendly reminder that AFAB and AMAB are meaningless and obsolete terms!

[oxymoronictransfem]

Welcome to my blog 𖤐

I am Mera (she/her). I am a black and Native American Marxist transfeminist who creates theory on underdiscussed topics.

I am a womanist, lesbian, intersex transgender woman.

Temporarily I am removing the link to my essay. It will be back up once it is altered with the intended changes.

For my other intro post.

At birth I was designated female. That event has impacted my experience with and relationship to transfemininity/transmisogyny. Regardless, like any other trans person, I do not identify with the gender assigned to me at birth. I identify as a woman, of which I was not assigned.

If you want to learn about it more, come talk to me! If you don't, do us both a favor and block me.

On this blog, “female” and female assignment refers to the patriarchy's idea of gender that determines that women should be defined by immutability, sexual subjugation and essential biological traits. Trans women too suffer under this assignment. Here, “female” does not refer to biological sex or gender identity. “Female” and woman are two different things.

My essay delves into this further.

I am several times more assertive of my identity and positionality than I used to be. Unless you have meaningful critique of my analysis, don't bother engaging with me. I've heard what you want to say before and I don't care to hear it again.

I'm open to honest conversation and discussion over my theory though I expect a basic understanding of marginalization dynamics on your part.

White people, that means stop making false race comparisons.

I won't tolerate transphobia (associating me with my assigned sex ie. calling me “an AFAB”) or purposeful misrepresentation of my posts or beliefs. If you treat me as “less trans” than other trans women or try to tell me I don't deserve a voice in transfeminine spaces then I will probably tear into you and/or call you pathetic.

TwERFS, transphobes, bigots, fascists/right wing, trans/misogynists, racists and serial harassers go fuck yourselves.

My posts of personal experience are based on my own struggles as a perpetual victim of transmisogynoir, I share them partly because this site needs more black transfeminized narratives and partly to illustrate how someone like me exists as a trans woman.

For more information, see my Bluesky, Substack, or Medium.

Block #transmisogyny tw #transmisogyny cw # transphobia tw & #transphobia cw if discrimination against transgender people triggers you.

Check my featured tags in the search for more!

FAQ

Is this an AFAB transfem blog?

This blog doesn't especially focus on transfems assigned female at birth, it's not a mogai blog or a contradictory label blog. This is a politics blog.

It is mostly about transfeminized people in general. That includes transgender people who weren't assigned male at birth yet have feminine gender identities that fundamentally don't align with their assignments and that defy patriarchal gender norms. I consider them under the transfeminine umbrella.

Do you support AFAB transfems?

In large part yes, I've come to a lot of different conclusions having surrounded myself with the community and in short I can say that I do. If you strongly oppose that I frankly don't care and would like you to consider that your perception of them — like mine was — is based on your assumptions rather than any real source. That's not a good way to build your perception of a minority.

And frankly I don't trust you if vocally obsess over them.

I don't personally appreciate the fact that there is such an emphasis on “AFAB” as part of the label and think that is a large part of why so many transmisogynists identify themselves that way but I understand there isn't much of another common way to communicate the same concept currently. This is why I coined “assignment variant”.

Are you an AFAB transfem?

Even though technically I was assigned female at birth and am transfeminine, please do not call me “AFAB”. Referring to me as “an AFAB” associates me with my assignment which upsets me as it would any other trans person. I would never describe another trans woman as “an AMAB” so don't do that to me. Neither AFAB nor AMAB is a social category or identity, it is a description of the coercive designation society assigns infants at birth that determines what they're supposed be.

I am a trans woman because I am trans in relation to my gender assignment — of which I do not identify — and utterly and entirely a woman.

Are you TME or TMA?

Considering that I am literally a trans woman who's womanhood is subject to being revoked or used against me at any moment, as well as my being frequently targeted and affected by transmisogyny it would be mistaken to consider me TME. This acknowledges my material reality and lived experiences that, regardless of your opinion, directly tie into my oppression.

I have lived with the internal experience of being trans ever since I was born and an external one for years now; excluding transmisogyny from an assessment of my marginalization leaves out crucial factors that contribute to my social position.

Transfeminism?

I am a very avid transfeminist. My theory, my accounts, my blog are all based around it. I have done a lot of reading and a lot of living which has influenced my own analysis. Do not assume that because of my assignment I am somehow naïve around topics within transfeminism. I have intricate knowledge of gender assignment and the functions of marginalization especially.

Don't bother to engage with me if you can't explain to me how marginalization as a whole generally works.

[hailmaryfullofgrace55675]

This might a false equivalency but why is identifying as an afab trans fem not ok but identifying as transmasc/male lesbian or as an afab femboy is fine? I'm confused that some categories are fluid and others aren't. I understand that gender and sexuality are queer and flexible but does that words don't have set meanings any more?

/ser

Rather than thinking of words’ meanings being “set”, I prefer to think of meaning as being based in a situationally appropriate balance of consensus and function. “Transfem”, “transmasc”, “trans woman”, and “trans man” being defined by assigned gender is 1) very, very strong consensus and 2) integral to the words being useful for their consensus uses.

“AFAB femboy” is fine because it means “feminine boy who was assigned female at birth”, which contains no contradictions. Similar to “butch” being initially used almost entirely by people who were assigned female, “femboy” was initially used almost entirely by people who were assigned male. Similarly, “butch” and “femboy” are each used to signify a maybe-kinda-trans-adjacent gender nonconforming identity for AFAB and AMAB people respectively. But neither of them is defined by AGAB, and indeed it is kind of important to understand that transfems can be butches and transmascs can be femboys, and that inasmuch as butch and femboy can function as nonbinary gender labels they can function as nonbinary gender labels for people of any assignment.

“Transmasc lesbian” and “male lesbian” are each different from each other, and each more complicated than “AFAB femboy”. Inasmuch as neither “transmasc” nor “male” means “not other things as well”, it’s not contradictory for someone to, for example, be bigender and identify as both a man and a woman, and see zir exclusive attraction to women as lesbian due to zir being a woman. In practice, people tend to see gayness as overriding straightness, in queer communities and in the broader culture - sure, ze could also identify as a straight man if ze wanted to, but is ze likely to want to? Some people do, see themselves as both lesbians and straight men, and some people see themselves as straight men who are incidentally also female. But the people who ID as transmasc or trans male lesbians are people who are inclined toward and invested in lesbian identity over straight male identity. Most transmasc and male lesbian identities rely on this “it doesn’t mean only”-ness, explicitly or inexplicitly.

That said, a lot of people who identify as transmasc lesbians cling to lesbian identity and spaces out of an (implicitly transphobic) sense that, having been assigned female, they are eternally female for whatever purposes suit them no matter how they might transition away. Not all of them. I make no claims whatsoever about the proportion. But in absolute numbers, a lot. This has been a thing for decades, to the extent that Julia Serrano articulated it as an issue in her early analyses of transmisogyny.

It’s tacky, it’s self-misgendering, it’s assignment-essentialist, and yes: it’s transmisogynistic.

Worth noting that “lesbian” and “gay” don’t really “mean what they mean”. It’s not even really “anymore”, they just never did - lesbian never purely meant “a woman who is exclusively attracted to women”, it was and is centrally defined as “a woman who is exclusively attracted to women” and has always also meant the messy cluster of women and adjacents and people-who-aren’t-really-women-but-who-society-perceived-as-such who had intimate partnerships with other women-and-adjacents-and-etc and people who came up and out in the social scenes those people formed. And that has always (always here meaning like, since the emergence of modern lesbian identity concepts and, more broadly, modern ~Western concepts of sexuality in Europe and the Anglosphere in the early 20th century) come along with all the complicated shittiness of bisexual erasure and cisnormative smoothing of people into assigned gender categories.

In my opinion, there isn’t really a way around the word for “woman who is exclusively attracted to women” also meaning “and bi chicks and any tboy who doesn’t feel like moving out of it post-transition” in a world where bisexuality is still seen as less committed and permanent than monosexuality and people are seen as always, on some level, the gender they were assigned at birth. The social circumstances shape people’s decisions around language and affiliation.

This is all to say: gender and sexuality language is flexible, but it is not randomly flexible. When an identity label contains more meanings in practice than it does in its base definition, it’s because the social circumstances make those additional uses intuitive and desirable for people.

[ugly-anarchist]

While yes intersex people can use intersex as their gender identity, that isn't what intersex is. Intersex is a natural biological variation that cannot be transitioned into or out of. It is a description of the natural state of our bodies. It is the same as me being autistic, white, and short. These are descriptions of things about me that I cannot change but are still important facets of my life as a human being. (Obviously some are more important than others)

(While the body can be changed, there are separate words for someone who willingly changes the natural state of their body, like altersex. Intersex people can also be altersex.)

On the other hand, gender identity and transness are personal identifiers that can be chosen. (And by chosen I mean that while you can't choose your gender you can choose the label you use for it) And it is also fluid and can change over time. Gender looks different for everyone and isn't based on any material thing that can be observed in the physical world. Gender is based more-so in what makes you happiest, and the most satisfied with your life. Gender is just as real as everything else I've mentioned, but it's just not a physical thing.

This is why transness is self determined and intersexuality is not.

Trans and cis are adjectives that describe a person's experience with their gender. A trans man/woman is just a man/woman who has a different experience with their gender than cis people do.

But if a person exists who is rejected by both cis and trans people, then what are they? What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to identify? Cis and trans as labels were not designed with intersex people in mind and often do not fit our experiences, but we're forced to use this binary because perisex trans people insist that you must be one if you're not the other.

But, trans people also insist that being intersex is inherently trans. Any deviation from the sex binary is seen as trans. Intersex history is seen as trans history, intersex animals are called biologically trans, and intersex experiences and terms are often taken by trans people and applied to themselves.

We're inherently trans but the trans experience is inherently a perisex one. Our experiences are identical to trans experiences but only trans people are allowed to say that. Our bodies are deemed the ideal trans bodies but the natural state of our bodies is used as proof that we don't fit in with trans people. Trans people wish they could gain access to the violence done to our bodies. Our bodies are held up as proof that gender and sex is a spectrum but if we talk about our complicated experiences with sex and gender then we're called terf psyops and cis invaders.

Where exactly are intersex people supposed to fit into the trans/cis binary? Our experiences cannot be defined in the same way that perisex trans people define themselves.

When an intersex person identifies as transfem when they were afab or as transmasc while they were amab or calls themselves cistrans or transmascfem or transfemmasc, this isn't an attempt to invade spaces we don't belong or destroy the trans community. We're trying to describe our very complicated experiences with gender with the limited tools that we have, the tools that have been forced on us but simultaneously denied to us.

Can we just let intersex trans people have their weird gender labels in peace? This isn't about you, it's not an attack on you or your community, it's just us trying to exist comfortably.

[queerbzz]

You don’t have to be a woman to be a lesbian.

You don’t have to be neurodivergent to use xenogenders and neopronouns.

You don’t have to be intersex or detrans to identify as agab nonconforming.

You don’t have to be aligned with your agab to call yourself cis.

[trans-wannabe-femme]

I'm worried that some folks are kinda losing the plot of "amab transmasc" and "afab transfem." Like, more power to intersex folks who identify with those labels. Y'all are wicked(pos) and I'm glad that those exist for y'all. At the same time I think we need to remember that perisex afabs can be transfem and perisex amabs can be transmasc. Trans forms of gender are different than cis forms of gender and if someone goes about being feminine or masculine in a way that is trans then that person is engaged in transmasculinity or transfemininity regardless of agab.

(not to mention the application of those concepts within the context of plurality but folks may not be ready for that conversation)

[dhddmods]

In case anyone isn't aware, status-quo-hater has said some exorsexist things, pluralphobic things, and has a double standard for contradictory labels & separating transness from sex/AGAB.

This is a post meant to make its followers aware of whether or not their identities are respected, and aware of its harmful stances.

We do not encourage harassment of this individual.

It has yet to address its harmful posts, which bothers us greatly. It needs to make it known whether it has changed its views, or if it is going to double down on its harmful standpoints.

Status-quo-hater has, in this post and this post:

1.

-Said that to identify as a trans woman, you have to have "transitioned into womanhood" - while simultaneously saying that mulleripathian non-binary people cannot identify as trans women (thus equating non-binary womanhood to binary womanhood, when they are separate experiences.) This directly harms mulleripathian non-binary women (ie; demigirls, girlfluxes, multigender women, etc), as it is treating them as either a cisgender woman (which is malgendering by only acknowledging their womanhood) or genderless/gender neutral (which is misgendering by ignoring their womanhood), and implies that they have no social or physical transition towards womanhood necessary. That is untrue. Mulleripathian non-binary women do have to transition towards womanhood - it's just a different type of womanhood than what was previously established. This falls into the same narrative as calling them "basically cis." It also separates wolffipathian non-binary women from mulleripathian non-binary women, by allowing wolffipathian non-binary women to use the trans women label, but not the mulleripathian ones. This is hypocritical considering it has said in the past that it doesn't think trans people should be defined by their assigned gender/sex.

2.

-Said that mulleripathian trans women are misusing the "trans women" label, which completely ignores re-transitioning women (ie; "detrans" mulleripathians, who are re-transitioning into womanhood.) Is their transition back into womanhood not a transition? This also ignores interrupted mulleripathians who wish to transition towards femininity after experiencing androgenizing effects from non-intersex atypical experiences (ie; mulleripathians who had a tumor that produced high levels of androgens, making them non-intersex but also giving them androgenized traits.)

3.

-Told plurals how to identify their genders, as a singlet. It has no right to input on this whatsoever, and should leave that to the plurals within its community. (We swear, no matter how plurals identify their genders, singlets will always argue and never be satisfied.) If you wanna read about our sysmate Weni's experience with this, you can see our reblog of its post here.

4.

-Blatantly stated that it does not support coffeebean transmascs & honeybee transfems.

[hiiragi7]

I've been seeing a lot of "this or that doesn't make you trans" lately, and, well, when speaking broadly, there's truth to it.

Being treated differently, being gender non-conforming, experiencing gender or sex reassignment (willingly or nonconsensually), experiencing gender dysphoria, experiencing transphobia or misgendering, or even transitioning medically or socially don't "make" people trans. There are plenty of trans people without these things and there are cis people with these things. Not even identifying with a gender different from the one you may have been assigned at birth "makes" people trans; I've known plenty of intersex people who identify as cisgender whose gender identity differs from the one they were initially assigned on paper. There are cis men who were assigned female at birth and there are cis women who were assigned male at birth.

However, while these reasons don't "make" people trans broadly, individually they are fully valid reasons as to why someone identifies as trans. I've known a lot of trans people who have said that they would not identify as trans if it were not for their dysphoria or the way they're treated or that they're transitioning socially or medically. I've known trans people who's reasoning for their identity is as simple as "I'm trans because I am." I've known trans people who keep a whole list of reasons for why they identify as trans and I've known trans people who simply go off vibes or even refuse to categorize their experiences that way.

Coming from that space, it's really odd and uncomfortable to me to see people here acting as though you have to have "the right reason" to identify as trans and excluding anyone who doesn't fit some (subjective) criteria. It's really odd and uncomfortable to me to see other trans people accusing fellow trans people of "really" being cis and invading the community or twisting the meaning of the word trans. When has being trans coming with a validity checklist ever been a good thing? When has that ever actually helped our community or each other?

[the-life-of-a-herm]

is it okay for perisex people to use the terms afab transfem and amab transmasc? is there alternative terms that should be used, or none at all? i would love to know lots about this, and i sincerely apologize if the terminology i'm using is incorrect to begin with, i fully welcome corrections.

thank you for your time!

hey! tysm for the Question!

I have been working on this ask since I got it.

I absolutely thing you can be transfem and afab and perisex, or amab and transfem and perisex. Let's get into why.

First off, of course, let's get into the language of it.

AFAB transfem is not an identity label you should use, because AGAB isn't an identity and it's actually counterproductive to centre it in who you are.

The reason why the term exists and is used is for a few different reasons..

A.) Some people don't have the language to describe how they are. I remember when I was a kid people would ask "can I be an AFAB demigirl?" because they didn't know and they didn't have the language.

B.) It's just what people use. It's a way to discuss "a transfem who is afab" shorter, the discoursers use it and it's simply a way to get what your saying across and seen better

C.) A lot of harassment happens in this community because of queercourse and a lot of people feel pressured into disclosing their AGAB otherwise they're "faking" or "infultrating" the community.

Secondly, transfemininity should never have even been defined by transition, your body, etc.

Transfemininity means a trans person who has a feminine gender, uncommonly mistaken for a trans person who presents femininely. (and also doesn't mean 'another term for trans women'.)

That description right there has been for a while the definition and I understand some people have astrix in their head for that but that's not anybodies problem but their own.

Multigendered people, nonbinary people, etc can all fit into this category and be perfectly perisex.

.

I think the idea people need something that seperates them "enough" from their trans identity to fully identify that way is harmful. Being trans does not need strict labels. You cannot box in the queer experience into specific categories. Being trans is about your experience and I think some people need to come to terms with the fact that it may not look the same for everyone.

Some people define their transness by transition. For them, transitioning to something is a part of their identity. These labels are tools to describe a lifetime of experiences.

For others, it's about their SIG never matching up with who they are.

-

I have switched in and out several time while writing so let me put it this way as to maintain some facade of an eloquent manner of speaking, I view being trans as something that is more defined by the person who is choosing to use the label rather than a strict definition. Anything other than that won't quite fit right.

This community was not built as a dictionary, everyone will have their own specific life experiences and reasons for identifying as trans and I don't feel like any way you describe it by one specific thing works at all.

(Heres how we would describe transness btw, but it probably needs a bigger post.)

Secondly, I have issues with it being seen as intersex only.

I think defining it as intersex only is kind of othering. Don't get me wrong, the intersex trans experience will hardly ever line up perfectly with perisex trans experiences.

However, I feel like stating intersex as an exception overall feels off to me.. We are not the only people in the community that break the FTM/MTF binary, and I really don't like how othering it is.

-

-

-

Anyways, switched far too much because of stress while writing this let me put it straight:

• Don't ID as 'afab transfem', though there are reasons you may want to use the wording for tags and such. Just call yourself whatever. Transfem, trans women, who cares.

• Being a trans woman or transfem is not some unicorn gender, you don't need a special bit of parts to ID as either of those things. It's somebody who is trans and uses either of those labels.

People may hate to see it, but it's the truth. Transness is not some binary experience. Being trans is personal to everyon and the reason why one person will ID as transfem compared to another and the experiences with that can be entirely different. That's okay. We don't have to be a monolith.

Do whatever you want anon, if you feel like you fit in some way why not? It's like saying 'therians are only spiritual' to me. Why box in a community that doesn't need to be? Why create definitions that do nothing but exclude? Being trans is an experience, but that doesn't mean all of ours have to be the same.

[franziska-von-karuma]

dont worry you can be whatever you want you can be just like those freaky gross ass trannies of course little cafab thing you can be a woman thats kinda a man and yeah its totally acceptable to call yourself a trans woman because of that everyone knows trans women are basically just women who are kinda men