#fandom writes back!

[mademoiselle-red]

Reading the Renault fandom dissertation, part 3

An academic decided to write about us, online fans of Mary Renault’s works, for her phd dissertation in 2018, and as the subject of her research, I will be covering & commenting on what she wrote over a series of posts ✍️📑

(Here is part 1, part 2, part 4, part 5, and part 6)

And now, for part 3 we jump to the Renault chapter:

“Chapter 2: From Greek Love to Boys’ Love: Mary Renault’s Romanticization of Pederasty”

Personally, I don’t read Renault’s works as romanticizing the institution of pederasty. They instead set up the ideal of “Greek love” in order to explore its problematic place and inadequacies within both its culture of origin (The Last of the Wine) and within early twentieth century gay culture (The Charioteer).

“Despite her contemporary fame, however, she is rarely mentioned today in either mainstream media or academic circles. Only in the form of a niche online fandom do Renault’s works continue to generate enthusiasm and contemporary relevance: male homoerotic fan art by women.”

I’m really surprised to see that she chose fan art as the primary form of fan media through which she uses to analyze the Renault fandom. I know it is more convenient to compare fan art to BL manga since both are visual mediums, but it doesn’t make sense for the Renault online fandom. I’d say the online TC community is 90% fanfic & meta and only 10% fan art. Even the Alexander Trilogy and LotW fanworks are mostly fic and meta. So focusing on art doesn’t make sense when you are trying to study the online fan reception of Renault’s works. This oversight in Chou’s methodology leads to some interesting results later…

“The second part of this chapter brings in the latest online fandom devoted to Renault, which focuses on Renault’s representation of male homoeroticism. These fan artworks and discussions based on Renault’s novels are located squarely within the BL sensibilities that I discussed in the previous chapter. By examining the unexpected affinities between the mid-twentieth century lesbian author and her millennial online fandom, I contend that the apparent contradictions between Renault and her works is best understood through the BL logic—which is the logic of fantasy.”

This is her central thesis about Renault and us, the fandom. A preview of what these “unexpected affinities” will be:

“More specifically, I argue that what critics have found problematic about Renault—her idealization of male homosexuality, her misogyny, and her indifference to identity politics—make sense for BL aesthetics.”

I will discuss Chou’s argument that Renault’s works appeal to her online fan community because they are indifferent to identity politics and modern reality in my next post (part 4), but first, the author explains her definition of “queerness,” which is crucial to understanding her distinction between BL/slash sensibilities vs queer sensibilities.

“Although Renault’s novels since The Charioteer almost exclusively focus on homosexual characters and relationships, and the word “queer” is in fact scattered all over The Charioteer referring to gay men in the postwar era, her books have never been considered “queer” in the post-gay, academic sense.”

This is a baffling sentence. And this definition of “queer” really narrows her analysis of queer fannish activity in my opinion, and prevents her from recognizing Renault’s online fandom as a form of queer culture and queer community. Also, I didn’t realize there is a “post-gay” academic culture. What does “post-gay” even mean? She goes on to explain:

“Queerness is understood as a mode of critique rather than about a specific sexuality, which is where queer theory divulges from lesbian and gay studies: whereas lesbian and gay studies tackles homosexuality as an object of study, queer theory defines itself as a philosophical and political strategy of critique rather than a study of particular objects. With representation no longer the measurement of political efficacy in textual analysis, writing about “queers” and being politically queer are two different, although not incompatible ideas.”

So queerness in Chou’s understanding for the purposes of this dissertation does not refer to a group of people who can be studied. I’d say it’s fine if you want queerness to be a mode of critique of normative structures in fiction & philosophy, but how useful is this definition when you are studying a fan community, a living breathing organism comprised of real people?

“The silence around Renault in academia today is a result of the awkward combination of who the author is, what she writes about, and how she proclaims an apolitical orientation. Queer criticism is used to heteronormative subjects being silent about politics and the mainstream’s lack of action is easily understood as complacency and sometimes homophobia. But queer criticism is not geared towards handling a non- normative subject with a voice that does not articulate political aspirations.”

Queer people can, you know, just exist, and write about other queer people, and have bad politics.

“In what follows, I propose that reading Renault from a different perspective—the BL perspective—not only dissolves her hopeless contradictions but is also more productive in understanding how her works can still be (if not more) relevant today.”

Buckle up, friends, she’s gonna analyze the TC fandom (us!!!) next 👀👀👀

More in part 4

[plumadesatada]

just remembered a fic on AO3 (or more likely LJ because it had that distinct late 00's experimental vibe) that appeared double-spaced oddly, in that some paragraphs would be spaced normally and others would have double or even triple spaces in between. it was about one half of the otp getting over the other's death (or coma, can't remember which), so all the comments were about how poignant the use of visual spacing was as a means to convey all the emotional holes in the character's life.

and then the author replied like... *giggle* guys it's NOT double spaced. try selecting the whole text

and we were all like "no WAY"

but we selected the text, and yes!!!

the "holes" in the story? they were actually lines and actions from the dead/coma character's ghost, rendered invisible to the eye by the simple trick of coloring the text the exact same as the background, revealed by nothing more than a click and a drag of the mouse

a story about the profound loneliness of losing your the partner of your life and having to make do without them, without anything to fill the holes they'd left behind, suddenly became a story about the profound helplessness of seeing someone you love suffer from your absence while you are right there, unable to do anything about it, unable to communicate that you love them enough to suffer unseen and unheard with them, just to keep them company they'll never know about

it was then that I truly realized how *superior* the digital medium is to plain printed paper, how the medium and the format can add to a story.

I think about that fic about once a year. I wish I could find it again

EDIT: FOUND IT!!!! UPDATE HERE

[anneapocalypse]

So, just curious how many writers and creators will have to be forcibly outed by relentless harassment before we acknowledge that "This queer characters was written by a cishet person and that's why they're bad" is not good criticism.

[writeouswriter]

My followers: And is this “writing” you’ve been “working on” in the room with us right now?

[egophiliac]

so on the subject of the "Crowley is secretly Revaan/Laverne/Levin/please Twst give us his name" theory, I think my feelings are best summed up as "I don't really buy it, but it's funny". like, in all seriousness, I'm not opposed to it; I have enjoyed the writing in Twst so far and I'm willing to trust that whatever happens will, you know, make sense and not be terrible. but I'm just not really convinced by the current evidence! maybe that'll change once we learn more, we'll see!

with that said, may I propose a few alternate theories about the possible Crowley/Revaan connection:

[somewhereincairparavel]

okay but imagine. Thalia Grace, after Jason's death, in a fit of desperation, comes racing to Nico di Angelo, wanting him to summon his ghost, because she just wants to talk to her brother one last time. Before it's too late. Before he reaches Elysium, since the closest she could get to talking to her brother after he goes to the hero's paradise is through dreams, and that wasn't enough for her. Seeing his fragmented soul through dreams is not nearly good enough. She wants the message to reach him. The real him. Not a loomy remnant. She wants to apologise, as she feels her soul being hollowed out with guilt.

She should've looked for Jason, even after their mother told her that he's dead.

She shouldn't have been so busy with the hunters that she would have to cut their brother-sister conversation short.

She should've realised how much her brother craved her attention.

She should've come to the chb meeting that she'd promised jason she'd come to, she shouldn't have made her brother wait like a lost puppy.

The look in jason's eyes when she told him she'd have to leave was etched on to her face. Permanently scarring her soul.

She should've been a better sister. She failed him. She failed to make him feel wanted. She hoped Jason didn't face his death thinking that she didn't need him. Because Gods of Olympus, that would break her.

And she poured all of these gut wrenching thoughts to Nico, who suprisingly listened. Yes. Nico did resent Thalia for being in the hunters of Artemis, the same group that got his sister killed. But listening to Thalia pour her heart out to him, really hit a little too close to home. The daughter of Zeus seemed to echo a young nico, trying aimlessly to summon his sister's ghost to talk to her. They both had the same hollow red eyes, burning with hot tears streaming down, the same crease in the eyebrows, the same flicker of rage over their siblings's murder. At that moment, Thalia Grace looked as unthreatening as the king of all god's daughter could possibly look like.

But Nico was glad, that Thalia, atleast cared about her little brother to this extent. Up until this point, Nico had these lingering doubts if Bianca had really cared about him like this, she had dropped everything to join the hunters after all. Hearing Thalia talk about jason had healed his inner child. Maybe big sisters do think about their younger brothers, no matter how busy they appear to be... So he complied to her wishes. She deserved closure from her brother's death. It would do Jason some good too.

He poured all of his concentration into summoning the son of Jupiter, as Thalia anxiously chewed on her nails, pacing around the murky woods in anticipation. Until a wispy figure with rimmed glasses and neatly cropped hair, appeared in front of them.

"Hello, sis."

Nico di Angelo and Thalia Grace were more or less the same, when it came to wanting to make amends with their deceased sibling.

Except Thalia was the older sister who wanted her younger brother back, And Nico was the younger brother who wanted his older sister back.

[dervampireprince]

something about being ruined. not just fucked or teased or even used, but ruined. someone making you unable to think, unable to speak, just moaning and twitching and leaving you unable to ever be satisfied for anyone else, anything else, always needing them, craving them, every hour of the day, being unable to control your arousal anymore, how wet you get, how hard you get, how flushed you become, all because they’ve ruined you.

[jamiethebeeart]

“But it’s not gay if he’s dead.” Danny’s head whipped around to stare down the street at two guys walking on the other side. He thought he was free of hearing that phrase ever again. Heart thudding in his ears, he crossed the street to tail these two guys. There was no way? Right? I mean Danny was something like 1,000 miles away from his hometown. There was no way two random guys in the big city of Gotham would’ve ever heard of –

“I don’t know man, it’s never been confirmed whether or not the “big guy” was actually… ya know?”

Danny seethed in frustration at the vague conversation. He stepped around a group of kids as he barely made the end of the crosswalk countdown.

“Nah, Red makes too many uncomfortable jokes about death to not have died.”

Danny sped up, weaving in between people to catch up before he lost the conversation in the din.

“It’s Gotham, we all make jokes about death.”

“Ya, but not like him. He seems to revel in them, like he actually kicked the bucket, permanent-like, not like those people who – I don’t know – cardiac arrest and are technically dead for a couple minutes until the EMTs get to them or whatever.”

A car puttered down the road – releasing a huge plume of exhaust in between Danny and the guys. Danny sighed, fully intending to return to his original path with the reassurance that they weren’t talking about Phantom. Then the next damned sentence came out of one of their mouths.

“Ok sure let’s say you’re right. Is it necrophilia if his body started decaying before coming back?”

‘Fuck it’ Danny thought as he turned back around. He had to see how this conversation ended – definitely not because the answer to that question kept him up night. Absolutely not. Call him a cat because he was just curious and not all at invested in the answer.

“Oh! Dude, shut the fuck up! Why would you – that’s disgusting! Are you kidding me!”

“Answer the question Mr. It’s Not Gay if He’s Dead – necrophiliac: yes or no?”

“No? Have you seen Red’s body? No way a dead guy could have muscles like that – I mean you gotta have working bodily functions right? To build muscles or whatever the fuck? Like have you seen his abs? Or, shit, just his arms - I mean swoon worthy, what I wouldn’t give to have him hold -”

“…….”

“- me…. What are ya looking at me like that for?”

“When, exactly, have you seen his abs.”

“Aaaah - that’s not the point –“

“Sure as hell hope that’s the point.” Red Hood stepped out of an alleyway they were walking past. Even with a helmet on, Danny swore the guy stared straight at him. He was so fucked getting caught listening in to this conversation – could he play it cool? Danny was cool right? Yeah, he could totally pull this off, act totally normal and keep walking. Hunching his shoulders some and turning his body away from the three men, he walked past. Or tried to. Red Hood caught the back of his shirt, stopping him from getting away. Unless Danny was willing to expose his powers to get out this situation, the best he could do was play dumb and hope Hood let him go without too much hassle.

“Boss!”

“Hey Boss – you didn’t happen to only hear the second half of that, did you?”

Red Hood growled, “the part about necrophilia or the part about my abs?”

Danny twisted his head back to see Goon #1 turn pale. “Uuuh – uh- um,” met Red Hood’s question.

A choreographed roll of the eyes, “Better question, why are you talking shit out on the streets and not paying attention to your little stalker,” Hood gestured to Danny.

“I’m not a stalker!” Danny huffed. His eyes widened. All three guys looked over at him. ‘SHIT’ Danny thought. He did not want to catch anyone’s attention more than he had, much less all three.

Goon No. 2 looked at him, as he resumed his squirming in Red Hood’s grasp, “So who are you?”

Danny glanced up to see Red Hood staring down at him. Today just wasn’t his day. “Hood,” Danny blurted out.

Silence. The tips of Danny’s ears turned bright red

“Uhm, I mean, a tourist?” “In Crime Alley, kid?”

"I'm not a kid," Danny muttered.

Hood shook Danny’s shirt hard enough to also shake Danny himself. “Try again. I’ve seen you around often enough to know that’s a lie.”

“It’s true!” Danny lied. “I was visiting the city, my wallet got pickpocketed with most of my money, so now I’m… kind of…. Stuck here? Indefinitely?”

Goon No. 1 laughed at him, “do ya think we’re dumb? You have a cellie right? No way you’re ‘stuck here’.”

“Exactly, so who do you work for? Penguin?” A jab towards Danny’s face. “Riddler?” Another jab and a step towards Danny. “Is it Two Face?” Another, even closer jab. Danny went cross-eyed looking at the finger in front of his nose.

“Back off,” Hood said. Danny breathed a sigh of relief at being given some space. And then the next words came out of Red Hood’s mouth, “Get lost you two – and stop gossiping on the street. And you-“ Hood turned back to Danny, “ – you’re coming with me.” Danny gulped. Today was going down as another shit day in the books for sure.

[tearystarz]

Drew lil scene from @missylink 's dbh fanfic she's currently writing >:3 will link when published!!🫶

[obsidianbit]

I love this gay ass show with its literally life ending injuries that heal immediately, but only when convenient to the plot, and its ridiculous use of modern phrases, and its laughing in the face of historical accuracy, and its kissing the face of the fans instead of trying to outwit them, and the way everyone involved in the show seem to go 'I KNOW RIGHT! I'M EXCITED TOO!' instead of mocking the fans

[ihathbenobiwankenobied]

great day for the reminder that fandoms are ruined by those who comment hateful things on fanfic

writers don’t owe you anything

writers make fics for free

there is a back button for a reason

[rhysuje]

Frame redraw! Salim saving Jason from the spear.

(only one of many times these two save each other)

https://ko-fi.com/rhysuje

[madbard]

While listening to Epic, I noticed an interesting pattern with how antagonists are portrayed, and how Odysseus’ interactions with them are coded.

In Epic, the monsters Odysseus faces are rarely fighting for their own sake. Polyphemus attacks Odysseus’ crew to avenge his sheep, and Poseidon destroys his ships as revenge for his son’s suffering. Similarly, Circe only threatens Odysseus to protect her nymphs. Odysseus does not kill any of these enemies, and while he is occasionally criticized for letting them go free, the overall implication is that he did the right thing by sparing them.

Then we hit the Thunder Saga, and Odysseus begins his arc as a ‘monster’ by killing the sirens. His actions here are brutal, and whether or not they are justified is, I think, up to the listener. However, it’s significant that the sirens are the first foes Odysseus faces on his journey who aren’t either defending or avenging what they love. They attack unprovoked, and while Odysseus’ method of execution is gory, he is never punished for it by other characters within the narrative. Apollo is the only one to protest, and even he is swayed easily when Athena says (among other things) that the sirens were “trying to do him worse.” The sirens attacked first, and while Odysseus’ response was ‘monstrous,’ his crew obeyed his commands and he was not challenged or ostracized for giving said commands. He is only treated as a monster when he yields to Scylla, who also attacked without provocation.

Thus, in Epic, the monsters fighting to protect or avenge their loved ones are protected by the very story - killing them may be more convenient, but it isn’t the answer. However, the monsters who attack without provocation, for their own amusement or satisfaction, do not receive such respect. Killing them is acceptable, and cooperating with them is monstrous.

By this logic, Odysseus is justified in his actions, however atrocious. He attacks to protect his family, and therefore deserves mercy.

The suitors, on the other hand…

[a-pigeons-soliloquy]

been reading non-hannibal fanfic for the first time in like 2 years and have come to the tragic realisation that the hannibal fandom has ruined me when it comes to fic quality

like my standards are so ridiculously high now. the bar is on the moon

you've all ruined me. RUINED ME I SAY

[angelshizuka]

How some people are capable of looking at a teenage boy crawling away in absolute terror from his own father (who's literally in the middle of physically, mentally AND emotionally abusing the superhero he now knows is his own son) and still think Adrien's the problem is totally beyond me...

It's like some of y'all WANT to victim blame.

[sleepwalkersqueen]

NEW FEAR OF YOU CONTENT AHH

Not even written by me! @dahvampire wrote an entire fanfiction for Fear of you, check it out!! <3

Pretty much this dynamic: