#is it the codependent brother/best friend dynamic?

[beholdthelastparagraph]

Thinking about how Palamedes tells Pash that they "are conversant with the concept of family in the Houses" in Nona....because, like, are they? Are they really?

Palamedes calls his own mother by her full name or job title more than he calls her 'mother'. Their relationship is COLLEGIAL at best. The Sixth raise their children in some kind of communal academic system, from what we can see in canon. Meanwhile, on the Second, it's all about that sweet sweet military command structure. On the Seventh, your parents literally try to pass super cancer onto you, and probably die of it themselves before you reach puberty. The Eighth is a monastic order where EVERYONE calls each other 'brother' or 'sister', regardless of family relationship. From everything we hear, the Tridentarius' parents are fucked-up in some way. The Ninth is....the Ninth, and on the Fourth, parents just tend to be dead.

So, like, are they really 'conversant with the idea of family'? Everything about the system John has set up discourages real family relationships. There is no socially acceptable way to share a family name with your spouse, parent, or sibling - the arithmonyms encourage you to identify with your HOUSE, not your family, and every time characters share an arithmonym, that is considered 'weird' (see the Tridentarii). John's system demands allegiance to the EMPIRE, not any individual family units.

This dissolution of family has the side effect of also dissolving (unjust) gendered roles, but it is also VERY effective at creating the existential, deep loneliness that so many of these characters experience and that John's system then uses to fuel their loyalty to him as God. It's this dissolution of family that creates the codependent structures you see in so many cav-necro relationships (Cam and Pal above all else), because WHERE ELSE but in this (fundamentally militaristic) relationship that was originally intended to serve the Empire could you find the closeness family often provides.

And, like, every time characters prioritise their chosen or blood family over the values of the Empire, it's transgressive. Any relationship that emphasises the individual - as a spouse, friend, lover, sibling, child, parent - over the 'imperial role' of cav, necro, soldier, or servant, is transgressive in the world of TLT. Magnus and Abigail are transgressive for that. Gideon and Harrow are. Even the Tridentarii have something going on that seems to go against imperial power structures, even if it's a different kind of fucked-up. Cam and Pal are such a complex case because they DO earnestly love each other outside of their role as necro and cav, but are so fundamentally alienated from healthy relationship dynamics because of their absurd upbringing that they immediately become *like that*, to the point of doing ye olde soul-merger. Still - they fundamentally hold allegiance to each other as family of some sort, whether romantic or platonic.

Which, I think, is why it's so perfect and messed-up and appropriate that Juno Zeta, Palamedes' literal mother, spends the last few minutes of her son's earthly existence as an individual quizzing We Suffer about her family structure. Rather than. Y'know. Talking to her son. Who is about to eradicate himself as an individual within the one relationship that ever transgressed that enforced, non-familial distance.

Camilla, meanwhile, does not let her fathers watch her death/ascension at all.

[sturnzsblog]

Not worth it

Summary: Y/N never planned on falling in love with a gangster — until she met Matt. Mysterious, dangerous, and fiercely loyal, he drags her into a world of crime, secrets, and bloodshed. What starts as passion turns into obsession, violence, and survival.

warnings: Violence & gun use, Murder / blood / graphic scenes, Kidnapping / captivity, Torture / psychological manipulation, Mentions of death, trauma, & PTSD, Toxic relationship dynamics, Jealousy / possessive behavior,Alcohol / drug mentions,Language / explicit content (sexual & violent),Loss / grief, Mental health struggles (depression, anxiety, dissociation),References to past abuse (implied),Emotional manipulation / codependency

I was twenty-one when I met Matt.

He was just a year older, but somehow he made me feel both seventeen and thirty at the same time.

He had this maddening calm, the kind of confidence that didn’t need to announce itself. And he was beautiful—sharp jaw, stormy blue eyes, that lazy smirk that could make me forgive anything.

But he was also the most secretive man I’d ever met.

On our fourth date, I found out he was a triplet—Nick and Chris being the other two thirds of the genetic chaos I’d unknowingly fallen into.

By the sixth date, I realized I didn’t know where he lived. By the second month, I still didn’t know what he did for work. He always made excuses: “It’s complicated,” or “Just trust me, yeah?”

And somehow, I did. I loved him.

After a year together, we moved into a penthouse in the city, and I still didn’t know half of his story.

But the part I did know—the warm hand on my lower back when I walked into a room, the way he’d trace his fingers over my collarbone when he thought I was asleep, how he protected me like I was more precious than gold—that was enough. For a while.

Until it wasn’t.

Because the canceling dates got old. The cryptic 2 a.m. phone calls telling me to “lock the doors and stay quiet” started to feel less like mystery and more like danger. And when I finally snapped and told him I couldn’t live in the dark anymore, he sat me down on the edge of our shared bed and told me everything.

He and his brothers had been in a gang since they were seventeen. Nate, their best friend, joined last year. They needed one more. A fifth.

I was dumb. I said yes.

Matt didn’t want me involved. He fought me on it for days. But I said, “If I’m gonna love you, I’m gonna love all of you. The real you.

Not the version you hide.” And maybe I said that because I was scared of losing him. Maybe I was addicted to the chaos. Or maybe—maybe I just wanted to prove I wasn’t some fragile, clueless girlfriend.

Which brings me to now.

⸻

The room was dim. Velvet walls. A chandelier low enough to make me feel caged. Somewhere in a luxury hotel downtown, I was sitting across from a CEO who thought I was just another party girl.

His name was Reed Lawson. Mid-40s. Tan. Gold chain peeking from under his collar. He smelled like expensive cologne and entitlement. And the blue Chevrolet Corvette parked outside with unregistered plates? That was what we were after.

“So,” I drawled, leaning closer, fingers resting on his thigh, “what car do you drive?”

He smiled, eyes flickering between my face and the plunging neckline of my red silk dress.

“Blue Chevrolet Corvette. Got it yesterday,” he said, licking his lips like he was doing me a favor. “Custom interior, of course.”

“Like what you see, princess?” he added, dropping his hand on mine.

In my ear, Matt’s voice crackled through the earpiece. “I swear to God, if he calls you princess one more time—”

I pressed my lips together, biting back a laugh.

Reed followed my gaze to his diamond-studded Rolex. I could practically see the pride dripping off him.

“You like this too?” he teased.

My gaze drops to his watch. Sleek. Silver. Rolex, I think. My earpiece crackles quietly.

“That’s the one,” Matt’s voice murmurs. “Y/N, that’s the car.”

“You like this too?” he teased.

“Maybe,” I said coyly, fingers brushing the watch. “But I could never take something so nice.”

He grinned, already unbuckling it. “Nonsense. I insist.”

And just like that, I slipped the Rolex on my wrist.

“Y/N,” Matt’s voice returned, sharper now. “Nate’s in the garage. We found the car. Get out of there.”

I smiled at Reed, stood slowly, and kissed his cheek. “You’re too sweet.”

Then I turned and walked out—hips swaying, red dress riding up my thighs. I didn’t look back.

Outside, the evening air was crisp. A black SUV rolled up just in time.

“Matt, he gave me his watch!” I giggle into the earpiece. “Although I don’t know what kind it is.”

“Dibs on the watch,” Chris says immediately in the background.

The car pulls up and I slide into the back seat next to Nick.

“What kind of watch is this?” I ask, admiring the face.

“Does it matter?” Matt mutters, eyes in the rearview.

“I mean, no, but—”

“It’s a Rolex Oyster Perpetual,” Nick cuts in.

I grin — but stop when Chris lets out a dramatic gasp.

“Is that bad?”

“It’s five grand,” Nick replies. “Basically, the guy’s a cheap-ass CEO.”

I laugh but glance at Matt. He hasn’t said a word. His jaw’s tight. His hands grip the steering wheel like he’s trying not to snap it.

“Matt, are you upset with me?”

He shrugs. “Guess we’ll never know.”

I roll my eyes. “If you opened your fucking mouth, I might know.”

Nick snickers beside me.

Matt turns sharply. “Y/N, I promise — you’re pissing me off. Shut your mouth, or I will do it for you.”

Chris, in the front seat, whooped. trying to lighten the mood. “I still call dibs!”

“You weren’t even there!” I shouted.

“I don’t care! I still called it.”

“Can we not do this right now?” Matt muttered from the driver’s seat.

Chris, in the front seat, whooped. “Dibs!”

“You weren’t even there!” I shouted.

“I don’t care! I still called it.”

“Can we not do this right now?” Matt muttered from the driver’s seat.

I frowned. “Matt, are you seriously mad?” i tried again.

He didn’t answer. Just gripped the steering wheel tighter.

“I mean—he gave me the watch. I didn’t flirt that much.”

Chris snorted. “You had your hand on his thigh.”

“That was strategy!”

“Sure,” Matt mumbled. “Let’s call it that.”

Silence settled over the car like fog.

—

The penthouse was lit up when we got back. Chris jumped out first to help Nick cover the stolen Corvette with a tarp while Nate handled the cameras. I lingered near the door, scrolling my phone.

I opened a message thread.

Me:

ugh I miss you Matt is getting on my nerves!! He embarrassed me in front of everyone 🤦🏾‍♀️

Seconds later—

Skye💋:

could never… Chris knows better.

I laughed softly.

Me:

bitch please stfu 😭

love you see you in an hour!

She was my best friend before she became Chris’s girlfriend. And she knew the lifestyle without being owned by it. Helped on gambling nights, showed up to parties, but kept a healthy distance from anything bloody.

I envied that.

⸻

Back inside, I flopped on the couch. Matt stayed standing by the window, watching the streets.

“I’ll just sell the watch,” I said finally. “No big deal.”

Nick smiled. “Money’s money.”

Chris pouted. “That was mine!”

I shot him a look. “He gave it to me. I didn’t steal it.”

Chris flipped me off and walked away.

I rolled my eyes and stood. “Nick, help me out of this dress?”

No one moved.

Fine. I stomped upstairs.

My bedroom door opened seconds later—but it wasn’t Nick.

“Um… you’re not—”

Matt shut the door behind him, already walking over. He pushed my hair over my shoulder and unzipped the dress slowly.

“Y/N…”

I closed my eyes.

“I’m sorry,” I whispered. “It just hurts when you’re mad and don’t tell me why.”

He pulled the dress off my shoulders, letting it pool to the floor. I tugged on one of his shirts instead.

“It’s just… a lot on my mind,” he said.

“Then talk to me.”

“It’s not important.”

“Matt.”

He exhaled.

“There’s pressure tonight. Dangerous men. One wrong move, and it’s over.”

My eyes softened. I cupped his cheek. “Okay. But that’s not what’s really bothering you.”

He looked down.

“I didn’t like him touching you,” he admitted. “Didn’t like how you looked at him.”

I blinked. “It was fake, Matt.”

“I can buy you a hundred of those watches,” he snapped.

“I don’t want his watch. I want you.”

Finally, he smiled. Just a little. Kissed me softly.

“Then stay close tonight,” he said. “Don’t do anything risky. Don’t disappear.”

“I won’t. I promise.”

“Good.” His voice dropped. “Because if something happened to you, I’d lose my damn mind.”

I kissed him again, slower this time.

“I’m gonna take a nap before tonight,” he said, brushing his thumb across my cheek. “But I’ll be fine as long as I’ve got you.”

sorry i’m late 

okay yay i’m super excited to continue this!!

janae 💋

taglist 💋

@n00dl3zzz @pip4444chris @sturnzzlovee @bernardmatthews @xsturnkay @katiebae333 @dummyslut00 @eszt1 @kalel2005 @nessaisabelartemas333 @sturnxvibes

[stellocchia]

The best thing about my three all-time faves is that they absolutely could be friends.

I talked in the past about Killer and Lust having plenty of similarities (they both come from situations where violence was normalized to them, their souls and emotions were messed with against their will, and they both tend to be objectified a lot, with Killer being seen as a weapon and Lust as a sexual object). But also, they have plenty to give to each other. Killer can teach Lust how to defend himself better and Lust has a lot to teach him about self expression, individuality and so on.

They're a great duo already, but I can make the dynamic better by throwing Red into the mix.

My guy comes from a world that doesn't fit among the darker AUs like HorrorTale, DustTale, or Something New, but it doesn't fit among the lighter ones either. Violence was very much normalized there and he's used to being a weakling compared to those around him. Nothing but easy EXP (I don't doubt that he and his brother had come to rely on one another a ton during their time in UnderFell. Those two are codependent af and nobody will ever convince me otherwise).

He can empathize with Lust's and Killer's feelings of being something other because he was. However, he cam also teach them a lot. He can teach them how to stand up for themselves (because, while Killer knows how to fight, that guy is the worst advocate of his own boundaries), and how to truly trust. He'd be out there helping to reconnect with their bros (and maybe helping Color too since we're at it, because if Killer's there Color is never too far behind) and that's a hill I'm willing to die on.

Also, my brain gave me the name "shades of love trio" for them and it fucking slaps, so one more reason to make them buddies

[whatwooshkai]

I want to yap about the rescue bots in smoke and mirrors again so buckle in

Today’s brainrot: dynamics

The reason the rescue bots refer to themselves as “brothers” is because the chief used the term to refer to them offhandedly and they were like “yeah that works” so here we are. They call each other “brother” in the same way first responders do

Amongst them the most actual sibling-like relationship is between blades and heatwave. They just antagonize each other but heatwave is the first to step in front of blades to protect him and blades knows he can count on heatwave, always instinctively reaching for him for protection. And while verbally sparring with kade can be fun, it’s even more fun to coax blades out of his shell into a real debate

I would say heatwave and boulder are really good friends. They’re just comfortable in each other’s presence- yeah, they have a little adventure here and there, but it’s not mandatory in their dynamic. They’re usually content to just soak up the other’s field (and heatwave is basically a mobile space heater which helps)

Chase and blades is also a very strong platonic dynamic. Theirs is super interesting to me too because blades is very emotional, and I think he finds comfort in chase’s very logical perspective and the first he turns to when he doesn’t understand something. Whereas chase appreciates blades’ attitude and sharp wit, even if he has trouble following through with his arguments when ire is turned on him. World’s best debate team

For boulder and blades, boulder’s inherent curiosity about the world is something blades lives vicariously through, as a lot of times he’s far too scared to be curious. And in the inverse, since boulder has such a problem with blood/gore/medical related things, yet is still curious, enjoys hearing blades talk about medical science (as only the sight really bothers them). And of course, being listened to makes blades feel important

For chase and boulder, boulder is a great resource for chase. While he’s a law encyclopedia, boulder is a culture and flora and fauna encyclopedia- both have minds like steel traps. And of course, it’s nice to spend time with someone who won’t argue with you, and is content to relax in silence. I think boulder very much enjoys quiet time, and of course have you seen that upper body? Made for hugs. Boulder is definitely the only one chase would willingly go to for hugs

And of course. Heatwave and chase. Not friends not lovers but a secret third thing. They act like they can’t stand each other but they’re disgustingly codependent and basically attached at the hip. They would die for each other. Heatwave would kill someone if chase asked him to. Chase is the only one who can make heatwave stop and think and heatwave is the only one who can make chase stop thinking. There is no label you can put on them. They know each other better than they know themselves and they use that knowledge just as much to comfort each other as they use it to push each other’s buttons. They’re both the stubbornest mech the other has met. In a bad situation the first name out of their mouths is each other’s. They love each other more than anything. What is their fucking problem

[nightsunecilpse]

Are the Earth and Moon friends?

Genuinely don't know what to call the Earth and Luna's relationship. Luna and Earth were formed from that collision between Theia and Proto but they're not Proto or Theia. However, the Earth is still considered Proto in a way. The reason Theia is never brought up in front of Earth is unknown but Venus said that there's still some of Theia inside of Earth. So, indications suggest that Theia is part of Earth as well. The collision had merged two planets into the Earth and moon, which has been repeated in various ways in the series and on Theia's Card. Theia and Proto are not parents based on the assertive "not at all" response when asked if a collision is like having babies. If a collision resulted in children of the previous planets, then that would make Pluto and Charon's relationship very awkward. I can confidently say that they do not have a parent or child relationship in any direction; well, Luna does kinda act like a mom sometimes but I digress. Earth isn't Luna's dad/mom and Theia and Proto aren't Earth and Luna's parents. That would be very weird because then Earth would be his own mom and dad, also his own child, but his brother is also his mom and dad- you see the problem. Whatever Earth and Luna's relationship is, it's ambiguous for a reason. I've been addressing Luna and Earth’s relationship in the way they interpret it, which is a friendship. But even that's a stretch due to the relationship's codependency making it look more like a messy partnership. Doesn't help that despite Luna being very close to Earth, Mars is considered Earth’s best friend. That whole situation just shows how much Earth values his friendship with the planets over his moon. Earth and Luna's dynamic is odd, especially in comparison to the other planets and moons, it's like the roles are flipped for them. As for my take on their relationship, it's still processing.

I figured back in October that if I could figure out how Earth and Luna's relationship got the way it did, it would answer how the solar system hierarchy was implemented. Everything seemed to draw back to them and I didn't know why. But all I got from them is Earth has abandonment issues and is extremely attached to Luna. While Luna feels like his existence doesn't matter to the planets and he is an Earth apologist. Their quarrel with each other stems from the fear and insecurity that the other one doesn't need or want them around. I am still not close to a reasonable answer about how they got this way. I would've said they got this way due to how they were raised but Earth said he's always wanted life and doesn't know why. The possibility that the Earth and Moon inherited these behaviors and goals from their past lives makes it difficult to pinpoint the origin of their dynamic. I've gone crazy over this. I have my suspicions, theories, and hypotheses but nothing solid. That is it for this rant, thought I'd share my frustrations.

[zyafics]

hi guys! i wanna hear ur thoughts about what series i should write next. nothing is planned, but i wanna hear my readers' opinions so i can prioritize better <3

note: all of these descriptions i made up on the whim, and may not be the official summary, but it is the gist of the series

BROTHER’S RIVAL | About 12 Parts

Pogue-born Kooks, you and your brother aren't welcome to Figure Eight. Mainly because of Rafe. When your brother is determined to steal the 'King of Kook' title from Rafe, he's going to return the favor by messing with you.

tropes brother's rival, secret relationship, rafe using reader to get back at her brother, porn with a plot

DEAD MAN WALKING | Undetermined Parts

Injured in a shootout, you saved Rafe's life as a medical student. But when he returns, and the wound turns deadlier than initially anticipated, you might be the only person in the world who can save him. But when working together, it reveals more about your—and Rafe's—history, and how exactly it might be intertwined.

tropes mafia boss x doctor, secret identities, reluctant allies, plot twists, high stakes, slowburn

KILLER INSTINCT | Undetermined Parts

There are murders around the city. An unknown assailant goes around killing people without a definitive motive. However, when you and the new boy in town start working together and uncover the patterns of the case, you're starting to piece together that Rafe might be the murderer. Not only that, he also can't seem to remember that he is.

tropes murderer!rafe x psychology student!reader, sheriff's daughter!reader, boy obsessed, plot twists, slowburn

ALL AMERICAN SINNERS | Undetermined Parts

A pact shared between two people, Rafe and you have always relied on each other as lifelines, using each other to hide each other's dirty habits. But when something threatens the stability of this unhealthy dynamic, the extreme length Rafe and you would go to keep it together. And how it might destroy your relationship once and for all.

tropes coke addict!rafe x sex addict!reader, codependent relationship, toxic dynamic, us against the world mentality, porn with a plot

GOOD GIRL GONE WILD | ~ Roughly 8-10 Parts

You're rushing a sorority by deciding to ditch the good girl image in college. But when Rafe needs help in a class, and you need to secure your pledge, Rafe offers his status to help you get into your sorority of choice, for some lessons. Which may or may not turn into something else.

tropes frat!rafe x sorority!reader, good girl turned bad, tutor lessons, sex lessons, jealousy, porn with a plot

FALL FROM GRACE | ~ Roughly 8 Parts

Rafe has always struggled to maintain his father's favor. When his latest antic caused him to be kicked out of the house, Rafe turned to you for safety. However, when an opportunity arises to win back his father's trust, but by hurting you, Rafe has to choose whether he's willing to lose the only person who always accepted him for who he is.

tropes childhood best friends to lovers, i-hate-everyone-but-you rafe, rafe has to hurt reader to make up to his father, slowburn

here's a little poll! you can also send in asks, or ask in the comments, for more clarification if i'm not explaining myself properly (i'm studying rn and deciding to do this on a whim! <3)

[hello-nichya-here]

https://www.tumblr.com/zuko-always-lies/783017606851559424/ive-heard-the-complaint-before-that-certain-azula?source=share

What do you think of this? What ship would you say does Azula dirty more often?

I think this poll is a classic case of people voting zucest as being the worst of something just because it's incest and they're uncomfortable with it. Plus, I'm sure the "Azula NEEDS to be a lesbian" crowd will see any ship of her with a guy as "denying her agency."

It's extra ironic because for a long, long time, THE biggest problem in Zucest fics was how ZUKO had no agency. Azula was always the one moving the plot forward, the one pursuing the relationship, the one affecting (or full on controlling) all of Zuko's actions, and the only one that was ever the aggressor in dubcon/non-con fics. It took YEARS to get rid of the unspoken rule that, in zucest, Zuko should always be the helpless puppet on the string.

Of the ships listed, I'd say Tyzula (which I do like) and Azutara are the ones that consistenly make the relationships completely unballanced, with either Azula having no personality beyond "I'm in love with this girl" or with the love interest existing solely to justify everything Azula has ever done wrong in life. And in Azutara's case, it suffers from the same "Both of them need to be wildly out of character for the ship to even happen at all" problem as Jetzula, Azulaang and Sokkla.

Also I'm really surprised to not see Ozula on the list since that one is THE relationship that, canonically, has Azula's agency go right out th window because she just can't bring herself to ever say no to her dad - though I guess it could be argued that this one goes without saying, not only because of canon but also the inherent power imbalance.

Now, onto what I do best: Zucest propaganda!

Long, well-written Zucest fics tend to be super character-driven, so as a consequence we see a lot of both Zuko and Azula's POVs and both of them tend to affect the plot significantly with each decision, right or wrong, that they make.

One of THE most popular tropes in it gotta be Zuko becoming obsessed with protecting and redeeming Azula after her breakdown (and having the terrible realization of "Oh shit, I'm a freak and my obsession with defeating her was repressed horniness" that sends him into an Angst Meltdown), to the point of eventually trusting her above anyone else.

That, as a consequence, gives Azula quite a lot of agency in EVERYTHING, especially in Fire Nation politics (first as advisor and then as queen). There's also a lot of calling out Iroh and Ursa's blatant favoritism, having the Gaang grow to either care for or at least understand her, unpacking tons of Ozai trauma to help her move past it, rebuilding her relationships with her friends in a healthy way, and eventually breaking the cycle of unhealth family dynamics by being a good parent to her own children.

Zucest thrives on functional codependency, aka Azula might devote her entire life to her brother, but he does the same to her. It'd scare any therapist, but it's two EQUALS being unhinged and making questionable decisions that end up paying off against all odds. That is the dynamic shippers love, and it simply cannot exist unless both characters are done right.

[kingconia]

TWISTED WONDERLAND BOYS AND HOW THEY WOULD ACT IF YOU WERE THEIR OLDER SISTER

warnings: hints of angst? mentions of possessiveness

RIDDLE ROSEHEARTS. ❤️

— Big sister? More like a second mother;

— Childhood was rough for both of you, and there wasn't much to do for ground Riddle from it fully, but you tried so hard to make it better than your own;

— You took punishments for your brother, you intentionally caught attention of your mother, so she could ignore Riddle, and you tried to teach him how to have fun properly;

— Riddle understands it when he grows older, but nevertheless, he always was your boy;

— You are his family, but you are also his best friend;

— It hurts you to see how much impact mother put on his mental health, and you struggle so hard to fix it, somehow;

— You are the only one, who can break the rules and make Riddle smile. He doesn't really cares if you are following them, and you honestly don't even try;

— To him, you are always a soft one, his gentle big sister, who takes care of him in the most motherly way;

— But once someone wrongs him... Oh, you definitely your mother's daughter as well;

— OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

MALLEUS DRACONIA. 💚

— Time is different from fae, but Malleus always remembers that you came first, and shows you a lot of respect;

— But you never felt that you are the elder sister THAT much with him;

— Most people assume that you are twins. You look identical, you act the same way, you are both strange in the same manner that people find scary;

— I think, both of you would be quite... Codependent?;

— You had only yourselves all this life, and it hardly changed, since no one wants to socialise with you in the school, so;

— You and Malleus are always together, hip to hip, and sometimes people even confuse you two;

— You are really more shades of each other than anything else, but you are comfortable with that. You share everything, you spend all your time together;

— ...Kinda possessive towards each other, too.

KALIM AL-ASIM. 💛

— When he was younger, you took care of him, admittedly, with some unwillingness. You were older, he was smaller and restless, and you just wanted to mind your business;

— But he is such a sunshine! Always was;

— Your heart grew softer, when he told you, while being still a small bun, that you are the most nice person in the world;

— (You really wasn't back then, but for him? You are now!);

— Basically sunshine and sunshine protector;

— You have a hard time trusting his friends and people around him, and, man, Jamil suffered from your suspicion enough, but... In the end, he is the part of family, too;

— I feel like Kalim adores having matching things. Matching accessories, hats, clothes. He thinks it is an amazing way to bond with you, and you are so into it;

— He is that kind of younger sibling that the more he grows, the more balanced your dynamic becomes, because he starts caring for you, too;

— You are the healthiest duo in the world, lmao.

LEONA KINGSCHOLAR. 🧡

— In this case, you are not the oldest in the family, but you are older than Leona, nevertheless;

— When he was a kid, he loved you so much. He was amazed by you, thought you are so cool, so powerful;

— So he started to take example from you. Quietly, without never mentioning that to you. (So, if anyone Farena blames on Leona becoming is such an ass, it is you, lol);

— Leona started act like you, learned your fighting tips, stole your talking manner, and... And clothes;

— It was you, who started wear leather in the family first, especially, gloves, and it was you, who made yourself two little braids by the both side of your ears;

— Leona is a little copycat, but you honestly love it;

— You took care of him the most from the family in the childhood, because others were busy or never wanted to deal with a cursed kid, and that is why Leona is so into you;

— As grown-ups, Leona starts hating all your friends OR boyfriends—don't dare to have one, he hates him, too—and really insecure because of the thought that you will lose interest in him, since he is not the kid to be taken care of;

— Ha, jokes on you. He is always your little stupid baby.

AZUL ASHENGROTTO. 🩵

— Much like Leona, you was his example all his childhood;

— But unlike his situation, you never had such a bond, when he was a kid. You were always busy with your own stuff, scamming people, reading and studying, and he felt, well, lonely;

— So, if Leona copycates, because he adores his sister, Azul does it in the order to become closer. Yes, he kins Mastermind of Taylor Swift, lmao;

— But it works, and you start taking care of him more often, hanging out to explain things. Azul is happy;

— But others? Others hate both of you;

— Contracts, lies, scams: you do it so perfectly, so smartly, so easily, that others just hope both of you will get thrown out of school, lmao;

— As Azul becomes the same level as you, someone, you can call your equal, you start your little competition. Azul tries to trick you, so you could fall on it, and lose to him;

— It is a friendly one, and you actually love your little game so much!;

— But, oh, Azul... Big sister knows better.

VIL SCHOENHEIT. 💜

— You are older, and that meant you came first. So, you are naturally prettier and more talented. Thanks, he hates it;

— As a child both of you had an amazing relationship, but as Vil got more involved with the outside world, he became more envious of you;

— It feels like he can never reach your level, and people used to pester him a lot with stupid questions about you;

— So, as a teen, he distances himself from you, starting to act annoyed and hateful, focusing solely on becoming better;

— You don't understand what is going on, or what to do, and you actively try to fix everything, but... Eventually, you are too tired to deal with all of it. You surrender. If Vil hates you, so be it;

— He misses you so much all the time, but at the same time, he don't do anything to change your situation. He only silently checks your new photos, listens to your conversations in corridors, and that's all;

— Life goes hard, and once he finds himself in front of your doors, crying and sobbing as a kid. You can't deny him, so you spend all night rocking him in your arms;

— But in the morning there is no trace of him, and in the corridors you act like strangers again;

— And no matter how often it starts to repeat, you still never talk properly.

IDIA SHROUD. 💙

— He is the most annoying little brother EVER;

— He is so stereotypical little sibling, lmao. He just whines about how old and not interesting you are, slams the door, and ignores you half of the time;

— Thanks, you hate it;

— But you try, nevertheless! You try to understand his talks, games and interests, and if you still don't, then you buy him a lot of stuff he wants;

— You bring him food and water, and constantly pester on his health;

— Actually, Idia doesn't hate you! He just likes being annoying little shit;

— So, if something gets too intense or tiring, he stops acting this way, and shows that he cares;

— But if no one dies, he puts typical teenager record player, lol;

— At this point, you are fine with that.

[daisukekaza]

Okay. Rant time. Maybe this sits in my drafts for a while, idk, but I'm waiting for my hair to dry from my shower and I had shower thoughts.

Specifically: I had thoughts about how the Supernatural fandom is so split over these fictional dumbasses that it's actually absurd. The show literally follows two brothers doing things together that brothers wouldn't do without absolute codependece. Like, I don't have siblings, but the ENTIRE rest of my extended family is part of sets of siblings (I am the only only child. Seriously.) and while I know they would stand up for each other, diving into literal Hell? Asking a potentially (actually likely) dangerous species of beings for help because nothing else will fix the brother lying in the hospital bed, bringing just as many who want to kill both of you down on your head for the slimmest chance to keep your brother from passing on without you? These are not things siblings do.

Then there's Cas. Cas who started as a stand in for John Constantine ehen WB wouldn't let them use the actyal character. Cas who was supposed to stick around for like 4 episodes and then die defying his species for two very fucked up brothers. Cas who almost loved (and was loved by) demon Meg. Cas who the writers and then the network tried to kill off multiple times because he took the focus off the brothers and then somehow became a gay icon despite being muck closer to pansexual if anything because he's a fucking angel and doesn't actually gender. Cas who I definitely believe loved Dean, but saw every time how much Sam and Dean love and need each other and would verbally slap them silly when they denied it. Cas who grew from cardboard cutout to comic relief to genuine fully fleshed out character in eleven seasons but gets relegated to the flat role of "Dean's boyfriend" because the brothers are doing the same thing they always do and stand way too close to each other but people are Offended that they stick to their very weird dynamic.

Cas deserves better, but I've seen so many writers get put off by the Destiel shippers insisting on attaching him to Dean that we don't even get character studies without Dean involved.

And then, of course, there's all the moments where Sam and Dean settle into living together like husbands. There's the fact that Sam's wife is kept vague and off screen but his son bears the name of his dead soulmate brother. There's Dean settling with Lisa but in every version (including the original idea where the show ended at Swan Song) it just didn't work out, but the SECOND that Sam shows up, Lisa knows Dean is leaving. Like he'd been a husk of himself and his soul was alight again.

And is there plenty of romantic opportunity with Cas? Sure! If you want Sam and Dean to just be codependent brothers and Dean falls for his best friend, all the power to you. But why does it have to mean that you don't tolerate that others see that codependece as a form of romance? Why does seeing chemistry between characters have to mean you judge them for the morality of fiction?

Why does someone reading, writing, drawing, or whatever else something that you don't enjoy, in a fictional world where no real person gets hurt by their creation, mean that you have to morally berate them?

You are not their parent. You don't know them. Your censorship goes against everything creative, and you will find yourself cutting off the world, piece by piece.

Fuck Warner Brothers for their attempt at queer erasure.

Fuck censorship.

And if you want an example of exactly how much gets buried and censored when media gets changed by corporations and how it influences what you see and know, go watch Encanto. And then read either the summary or, if you are feeling like you can stomach the gore, the actual book: 100 Years of Solitude.

Supernatural is rated for older teens and up. Kids are not supposed to be here, and so the show has no reason to cater to them. Stop acting like you're saving them from the creativity of adults in an adult space. It's ugly, and there's no reason to shove that ugliness at others.

I, for one, refuse to take it.

[minijinpachi]

Let's say it all together now, Rin wants to beat his brother to prove himself, not out of hatred.

I feel like this sentiment got kinda lost as the fandom got larger/the anime was released. Which I understand because there is a lot of emotions that are going into this dynamic, but let's look at what we know.

Rin wants to go back to the past, where he was his brother's number one person, his confidant, partner, friend, secret keeper, duo; this list goes on because they were siblings that did everything together. Rin, truthfully, is projecting his desires of returning to the past onto soccer. (Soccer for Rin is very symbolic, in contrast to Isagi who just has a clear love for the game.) He wants to go back to the time where he was Sae's exception to everything. Sae was good at soccer and didn't think anyone was worth being his partner, but then Rin became the exception. Sae could be harsh, yet he'd show gentleness towards Rin. Sae thought others were childish and silly, yet when Rin acted like a child he would care for and comfort him.

We can see that the Itoshi brothers had a bit of a codependent relationship, the term may be strong but you get the point. While they had individual dreams, skills, and experiences, once Rin also started playing soccer everything in their life became enmeshed with each other. They continue to develope and grow their bond until they are forced apart, but they're obviously still constantly thinking of the other. So, Sae pursued soccer wholeheartedly living not only his dream but his brother's as well but *thunder clap* Spain happened. We don't know what happened but it made him realize that he could not achieve his dream, much less two, or he realized where his true talents lie, either way heartbreak was awaiting Rin.

The first time Rin was not special in Sae's eyes was when Sae challenged him in one-on-one. It is exactly what we see, a test to prove himself, no stops or aid from anyone or Sae. This was a test for Rin's independence. (Notably, one that required him to face the least amount of embarressment when he fails.)

We often see Sae carrying the belief that no one in Japan is capable of becoming a worthy striker, but the subtext is 'not even Rin'. This is the nail in the coffin for their relationship, the initial wedge being Sae leaving for Spain and the distance between them. Keyword, their relationship, so their bond as brothers not their ability to be partners in soccer. BUT soccer becomes the proxy for said relationship. Hence, why Rin believes that he needs to beat his brother for their relationship to go back to how it was before because then he would be Sae's exception again. It's not Rin's goal to lead Japanese soccer into a new era or to become the best player in the world by other people's standards. He just can't stand being ignored and pushed to the side by his brother, and to him, it was soccer and his soccer abilities that caused the change in their relationship.

Another thing is that Rin would not view the soccer as a battle field if all he wanted to do was beat his brother out of sibling rivalry. This is serious to him, its not just a game, or just a competition. His life purpose is to prove Sae wrong and show that he is still an exception; Rin can be the striker to change soccer in Japan for Sae. (Or at least impossible to ignore but we all know that the Itoshi brothers carry an 'all or nothing' attitude.)

And then Sae acknowledges Isagi first....yikes

[foursaints]

what do you think regulus' relationship with all the skittles is like. ik he and barty are the secret thurd thing but i am extremely curious about his interactions with the twins. do he and pandora exchange resigned looks whenever rosekiller is being their Very peculiar brand of Rosekiller? and also evan and regulus. ?? i always imagined regulus (if he met the twins in his childhood) as slightly protective of them in a older sibling type of way. i think that might be from my own need to protect my friends (especially as a child). like i used to be desperate to show someone love the way my sister showed me. so yeah im absolutely bestowed with your regulus and i do wonder if you have headcanons abt his interactions with the other skittles<333

i was discussing this ask with @fernhelm socratic-seminar style and ive compiled the results for you...

regulus is a fundamentally selfish person but he's selfish on behalf of the skittles. he's folded them into his life & his care, and part of that is finding excuses for every ugly thing they could possibly do. in his eyes they (the twins, barty) fundamentally just deserve to do whatever they need to

fern said thesis of the skittles is this terry pratchett quote: "All witches are selfish, the Queen had said. But Tiffany’s Third Thoughts said: Then turn selfishness into a weapon! Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world! How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine! I have a duty!"

pandora is his best friend. he is capable of understanding her in a way that he doesn't understand the rest of them. if regulus is something cold hiding something warm, she's the inverse. part of their mutual understanding is the fact that they ultimately ended up on the same side in the war.

regulus only understands evan through pandora. they're close but not super close to me!! pandora is a warmer, brighter, more expansive version of evan & that is more accessible to reg... i think regulus fronts like he's cold & unfeeling but evan actually Is That and that fact is alienating

anything i could say about barty and regulus's friendship warrants its own post but genuinely to me they have a greg & rodrick heffley type dynamic and i stand by that

i see the skittles relationship as quiet & abiding. they are all using the friendship to self-soothe in their own ways and it makes it codependent but in a gentle sense... layers of caretaking. the weird kids who eat lunch on the picnic bench and don't seem to talk much but are never seen apart. they don't banter loudly like the marauders but they're all holding hands under the table

[batsandbirdbrains]

If you don't mind answering, what's your favorite platonic Dick Grayson relationship? I very much love the differing father/son vibes he has with both Bruce AND Damian, but I'm also a sucker for a good brotherly relationship like with Tim or Jason. Also can't go with the codependency he has with the Titans (or YJ)

Dick and Donna is one of my absolute fav pairs of bffs. I like that they’d both absolutely defend each other to the death, and that they’ve known each other since they were young. Love the Wonder Twins they’re def my fav platonic pair.

And I think Dick & Roy and Dick & Garth are under explored too. It’s always either Wally or Donna. And I like them don’t get me wrong, but I want to see Dick and Roy hanging out at a gala bc Bruce and Ollie dragged them there, and maybe they’re making fun of Lex Luthor who’s also there and then sneaking cigarettes in the alley behind the venue. Maybe Dick is super interested in Atlantis and Garth teaches him all about it, and Dick in turn helps Garth with some surface world stuff that he’s been nervous about.

I enjoy all of the fab five together though, the concept of a group of superhero bffs is so fun, especially since they started when they were all so young. They’ve def all trauma bonded. And I like fics where the fab five all know Bruce is a shitty dad and they do everything they can to keep Dick away from him/protect him/comfort him.

Dick & Damian are my fav pair of all the batkids. Probably because they parallel early days Bruce & Dick so much. But I think they’re so fascinating to read/think about regardless of whether they’re the correct ages with Dick being older and Damian being younger, or if it’s a reverse robins situation. They have a fun mix of brotherly affection and father-son dynamic.

I do of course also love Bruce & Dick being a weird mix of father-son and brothers too. But I also enjoy fics where Bruce is very clearly The Dad.

In a Young Justice cartoon setting, I actually really like when he’s good friends with Conner and Kaldur. I feel like his friendship with Wally is always the focus, and his relationships with other characters aren’t as explored. Especially in a platonic setting. I don’t want Dick and Conner to be dating, I want Conner to look at this fluttery kid who helped save him from Cadmus and think “I have to protect him now, look at him, he’s pint sized.” Nevermind the fact that Robin in yj is objectively a terrifying little weirdo, that’s Conner’s terrifying little weirdo. I want them to watch Dick grow up and become Nightwing and for them to be so proud of their friend. I want them to get mad at other heroes when they talk shit about Nightwing because that’s their best pal, their buddy, their bff.

Probably derailed this a bit sorry abt that. But I just love fics that explore his relationships with other people without making it romantic.

[nightsunecilpse]

I feel like some of the fandom misinterpreted the Earth's and Luna's relationship. They either say they're little brother and big brother or father and son coded. I am not sure how your guy's families treat each other but that's not a family dynamic. The Earth treats Luna like a pet but he is also highly dependent on him. Like, have you noticed that Earth never calls Luna his friend, not once? But Luna says they are. During the moon Revelation arc, Titian even calls out the obvious power dynamic between the two. The Earth and Luna are in a codependent relationship, and I'll try to give examples of how.

Before the Earth redemption arc, Luna stated that "sometimes he makes me feel like I don't matter." After a talk with Astrodude, Luna leaves Earth, then comes back, and Earth demands Luna to go back to orbit because he's off his axis. Moon doesn't even care how Earth said it, he feels satisfied he has made his point. Earth only talks positively about Luna when he's bragging, and after finding out Luna is drifting away, Earth blames Luna. Earth was hurt hearing this but not because he likes Luna, it's because he wants his Earthlings to become a type 5 civilization. Having Luna is an important part of life, if Luna leaves, it will kill all his dreams and his earthlings. Even after they learn the truth and Luna tells Earth to enjoy the time they have left, Earth can't get over the fact that his moon is leaving and still blames him. Ignoring how Luna feels and focusing on his feelings.

For Luna, Earth is his closest friend but it's a complicated relationship. He has been seen reading a book called 'The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress'. The book is apparently about a colony on the moon that trades crops and goods for less than its worth. But it is not as if these people have a choice because they can't leave due to their bodies being affected by the moon's gravity and going to Earth after long periods will kill them. If that detail is referring to anything, it could mean that Luna feels as if Earth is giving him less than what he does for him in return. To Luna, the Earth means a lot, but despite wanting to leave Earth sometimes, he always comes back hoping Earth will change while knowing deep down he won't; post redemption arc.

Luna is more aware than any other celestial body that the Earth has been through a lot. It could be that for millions of years, Luna has been protecting Earth from any sort of danger, let it be emotional or physical. Side effects were Luna having to excuse Earth's behavior whenever he's messed up and being treated as a tool. It could be that Luna is aware of the gravity of Earth's situation and feels partially responsible for his actions. Like how he tried to apologize on behalf of Earth when he said offensive things to Titian or how he tried to save Astrodude from Titian because he's one of Earth's Earthlings. He did go to Earth to get him to fix the problem he made but Venus rejects Luna's advice and enables Earth's behavior. This doesn't stop Luna from trying to help Astrodude despite the insolent ways the planets talk to him.

Moreover, Luna is always looking out for Earth because he cares about him and wants him to be the good friend he knows he could be. He's seen him through his best and worst and still holds hope for him. I mean, Luna is so focused on Earth to the point he's not even familiar with Earth's orbital neighborhood. He would rather be with Earth than anyone else. He just wants Earth to treat him better.

On Earth's side of their relationship, he sees Luna as a reluctant necessity in order to keep life from dying. Admitting he was only starting to like him around because he had the best moon out of any rocky planet. He has a need to feel superior because, on his surface, life is constantly taking advantage of him. To him, dealing with all this pain makes him better because it means he's resilient. His earthlings' lives mean so much to him yet it's killing him. Sometimes he was willing to gamble their lives for fun and admitted he wanted to start over if things didn't get better. Being responsible for things smaller than you and them treating you like garbage, all the while still trying to be a good place to live really took a toll on his outside relationships. For Luna and him, it causes him to look down on Luna for being not like him. He values Mars for being the most like him; even if Earth is never open to his struggles and sees him as his lesser. Have it be Mars is his best friend. Luna's value is to be his shield and keep him on his axis. To him, Luna is less than a planet, so an inferior celestial body he can push around. However, without him, he becomes increasingly mentally unstable if left alone for long. During his hallucination, Luna is the one that hurts the most. When hallucination Luna tells him that he had enough, it has him in tears. Revealing his deepest turmoil between the two and his fear of abandonment.

Luna is Earth's most important relationship, and even after his redemption arc, he doesn't see that. Earth has been so comfortable with Luna's constant defense and loyalty that he doesn't even notice him. Yet when he's gone he spirals because he needs him to keep him stable. Luna has always been there through his best and worst, as said before, so suddenly, not having him there is like a piece of himself going missing. He is so emotionally dependent on others that when no one wants to be his friend anymore, he tries to end himself. He honestly thought everyone would be happier because his actions had caused a rift he thought he couldn't mend. Thankfully, Mercury and Luna stopped him and helped humble him, which in return helped his relationship with the other planets and Luna. However, Earth is treating Luna better, but it doesn't mean they're on equal terms. Earth appreciates Luna's importance but still doesn't involve him with the other planets' shenanigans, making him feel left out.

In summary, the relationship between Earth and Luna is one of mutual dependence. Earth, while dominant, relies on Luna to sustain life on its surface. Luna, in turn, plays a more passive role, accepting the kindness from Earth but also providing essential support. Their connection is crucial, preventing them from drifting apart. Although their dynamic may not be perfectly balanced at present, there is hope that they can strengthen their friendship and achieve a more equal partnership in the future.

[wincestwhispers]

happy wincest wednesday! do you think the samdean dynamic can be achievable in a universe where they aren't related? and would you read any fics about that? ( @burial-at--sea )

happy wincest wednesday ruby<3 tysm for the ask, this is a really good one!

To start off simple, yes i do think it can be achieved in a universe where they aren’t related but it’s gonna require some special circumstances. there’s a few reasons i say this, one of them is that i actually did start reading a samdean fic where they weren’t related and enjoyed it, which already answers your second question lol. i’ll explain below bc it’s gonna be kinda lengthy sorry

i didn’t make it very far in the fic before i got distracted and forgot about it but from what i read, it characterized sam and dean pretty well given that they weren’t related. in the fic they did still somewhat grow up together, dean’s little brother was adam and they all went to a hunting school. it was omegaverse so when dean presents shit gets complicated because omegas aren’t allowed at the school. drama and trauma happens. sam and dean don’t see each other for a while then meet up for a case only to sleep together which gets dean pregnant. then ensues all the secrets, misunderstandings, possessiveness and feelings which come to a head eventually. accurate presentation of sam’s jealously and protectiveness and how misconstrued dean would take it which was fun. i didn’t read very far past when sam found out dean was pregnant and almost lost his shit when he couldn’t scent dean and his baby cause of dean’s scent patches (delicious scene), so i can’t say much for the rest of the fic unfortunately, and im not speaking to the actual plot of this fic, but i would say the author as closely achieved sam and dean’s dynamic while having them be unrelated as i’ve ever seen. also i found the fic: ao3

the second reason i think it can be achieved is gonna sound like a reach but hear me out: bakudeku. okay they didn’t exactly grow up in each others pockets the way samdean did (though deku wanted to) but they still were a constant in each others lives from childhood and become quite codependent. they can both be toxic and unstable with one another, their whole lives revolve around each other and the biggest thing, all of their rules and morals get thrown out the window for the other. bakugou gets injured? deku’s killin people. deku is being an idiot? bakugou’s breaking all the rules to get to him and give him a speech. that’s samdean behavior if i’ve ever seen it; they’re always each other’s exception. Furthermore, i personally view bakudeku as having that “worse apart still fucked together” and “idk what they got going on but we don’t touch it” dynamic. they understand and know each other better than should be normal, have everything memorized and seem almost telepathic at times, yet will somehow STILL misunderstand the others feelings about them, and that’s just how they are like it’s normal.

TL;DR my unnecessary explanations: Yes, but they’ve gotta at least be childhood friends that go through a breakup/enemies phase and come out more codependent for the best results

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

Lol, i saw one of the passages of the Roku novel, when Sozin was shows pretty blatant sexism in his inner monologue. So much for the "feminist utopia" of the FN.

Also, about Kataang, i have to agreed with you about not being a "big sis/baysitter" male fantasy. Because that's actually a dynamic that i tend to enjoy a lot, but Katara and Aang are in pretty equal footing for the whole series, frankly she treats Sokka more like a little brother that she does to Aang and even then is not really accurate, their siblingrelationship is more complicated than that because of the circumstances on the Water Tribe forcing then to grow too fast, so is more like they trade the "big sibling" vibe depending of the circumstances.

Honestly, if Kataang was more like Zuts describe it, i'll probably would be more into it instead of thinking "is nice, but i don't have a problem with pairing then with other people".

"So much for the "feminist utopia" of the FN" Almost like that was some bullshit from day one and zutarians should not have been surprised that the guy that commited genocide was a bad person that created an unfair system for people to live under.

For real, Kataang being rather "vanilla" is part of why I couldn't get into it at first. When it comes to fiction, I usually want some drama, messy bullshit and LOTS of codependency. Kataang is literally just two best friends falling in love and not really having any major conflicts. It took some time for it to grow on me.

And honestly, Zutara, at least the actual canon dynamic, is VERY vanilla too. The fanfics can get crazy, but in the show it wouldn't really have been an "unhealthy" dynamic because quite frankly they didn't HAVE a dynamic for 75% of the show, so I don't get it when zutarians act like it is some mature, adult, complex, subversive ship - and I almost broke a rib laughing at Bryke calling it a "dark" ship.

[shyinsunlight]

Prongsfoot?

While I don't like it for a very simple reason, which is the Prongs part, I see why people ship it and I don't get the general hate that seems to surround prongsfoot. Their dynamic is very obviously charged with sexual tension.

The main reason for the prongsfoot hate is usually “it's wrong because they are like brothers, and it feels incest-y,” which I personally don't see a problem with, and it would, at least, shake up the otherwise bland friends-to-lovers…

Would it last? No. But did they fuck? Very likely.

I vote for friends with benefits. Ride-or-die besties, codependent as hell. They were probably the only ones who could keep up with each other.

James falls first, probably doesn't even realise it. He's obsessed with his best friend and wants to be close at all times. Sirius is harder to pin down; he's designed to deflect. But they hook up eventually, because of course they do. It's casual, fun, no big deal—not to Sirius, for sure. Maybe it is for James. Maybe he tries to bring it up, but Sirius brushes it off. Maybe they never mention it.

Either way, it ends. Fades or explodes, depending on how dramatic you want to be.

(Enter Lily—choose your reason—and she grabs James by the emotional balls. James falls in love, because by some miracle, he just won the jackpot.

Sirius, obviously, finds his way back to his one and only true love, Regulus, and they live happily ever after.)