#it’s less heroes vs monsters and more hurt people vs hurt people | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

wiserodin032402 · 1 year

Text

my 21 hour long video essay on people who make ‘realistic’ D&D plugins

by someone who worked on one of said ‘realistic’ D&D plugins.

You want to play Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2nd or 4th Edition, or Symbaroum, or The Witcher RPG, or Zweihander if you’re a bootlicker. Please stop lying to yourself and making whole-ass RPGs for free.

I fucking despise D&D but please understand that mechanics exist in the way they do for a reason. It’s not a good reason, but let’s take it from the top:

1. Hit Points AKA Meat Points AKA shit morons fight over that don’t matter

HP is metric of measuring how much you can fail. In the world of D&D failing is being in melee combat.

No for real in D&D throughout the editions everything is better at melee combat than you, usually because it’s bigger, which means it has higher strength so it hits more and deals more damage. The only time this wasn’t the case was in D&D 4e because it had roles which dictated a bunch of stuff about your character so being good at something meant you picked the right role.

So your hit points measure how many times you can make mistakes, which is to say being hit and taking damage. They start off low at low levels and increase at an entirely random rate depending your edition, but hypothetically you get more so you can survive stronger encounters out in the world.

This is the part of the game that’s actually been optimized by developers so it’s like, semi-functional. It’s so fucking functional that there is a literal table for generic monsters in the DMG page 273 of the 5e PHB that will let you wing monsters on the fly (this looks awful scroll really quickly)

These are like reasonably competent numbers (though they kinda suck ass to fight) and are roughly adjusted to the DPR of the average 5e party that isn’t sandbagging. Again, only part of the game that like, functions.

But people just insist in sticking their dick in it.

Every time they either massively reduce HP, make it so there’s an alternative type of HP that also goes down that you have less of which kills you, or they just add more stuff that kills you, or they massively increase damage.

This is for the sake of ‘realism’ because ‘how are you getting better at tanking sword blows’ but nobody ever applies the ideas in reverse, like ‘how are you stabbing through full plate’ or ‘how are you hurting a creature made entirely of stone with a rapier’. Sometimes the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy comes up, as if D&D is a game about being Tolkienesque heroes, and they all conveniently ignore the scene with the cave troll where the entire fellowship team up and beat it to death in roughly twice the time it takes for the average D&D party to carve up a similar creature.

So they want you to be able to fuck up less and take the consequences for it. The problem is that the game is founded on randomness, and especially in 5e, there’s very few ways to ‘rig’ outcomes without spells and magic. In order to make HP more ‘realistic’ there needs to be ways to avoid failing. In a game like Warhammer or GURPS you’d use cover, employ ranged combat, aim your weapons carefully, and attempt to attack from stealth or ambush your targets, aiming for vital points to deal with them swiftly. While cover exists in 5e, there are no hard stealth rules, and ambushing is a uh...

TOTAL NONSTARTER OH BOY

Which means that it’ll take up more design space (which we will cover in a bit)

Oh and nobody applies these changes to monsters for the most part, which means player characters have a bad habit of dying due to leveling up.

2. Armor Class (you are a boat)

Yeah say it with me everyone ‘this mechanic is from an obscure game about civil war ironclads and your characters are boats’. Fun fact, armor class hypothetically works in 5e and this wasn’t fucking intentional. A lot of people noticed early on that to-hit numbers as you leveled vs AC was a steady 65% hit chance, which was like super cool and modular and totally a departure from 3rd edition where numbers got big n’ stuff, which made it good, and it meant you didn’t need magic items to keep your hit rate competitive. That was called Bounded Accuracy. Bounded Accuracy is a fucking lie and you need magic items because the upper half of the monster manual will laugh you out of the room if you aren’t rocking a +15 to hit and magic weapons. Literally, it’s such a lie that it’s disproven in the PHB, since Archery Style gives a bonus to hit outside the normal hit rate.

Which leads me into the first part of why people have so much of a hard time with AC: morons give their players magic items, surprised the magic items make their players powerful. D&D has a lot of AC boosting magic items, and this is intentional, as AC is your primary defense against damage. That’s why there’s spell that gives a +5 bonus to AC on reaction. What people don’t get is if you give players a magic suit of armor, a magic shield, and a ring of deflection, that you’ve basically given them the medieval equivalent of a wearable bunker and a magic force field against anything that would harm them. You’ve made the player linearly more powerful. now instead of having an AC of 20 they have an AC of 24 and that means a lot, that’s a 40% survivability increase, and it crosses a lot of important thresholds that mean mundane people don’t stand a chance against you (not that they did anyways).

The second part of why people are morons about AC is that AC doesn’t make sense outside of an abstracted context. Dexterity (how good you are with your hands) makes you better at dodging attacks with your whole body somehow so you get an AC bonus from that, but if you wear heavy armor you also get AC from that, and that doesn’t make sense because you’re not harder to hit so much as you’re harder to hurt. Except, you know, fighting in plate is about getting your opponent to the ground (prone, which coincidentally gives advantage), grappling them, and then stabbing a bunch of tiny little gaps on their body until you do enough damage to make them stop or make them bleed out. Those gaps are coincidentally very hard to hit normally.

And you know, actually, when you get down to it, dodging is a horrible way to avoid attacks, it takes a lot of energy and is tiring, it moves you around a lot and puts you out of position often. Often you want to deflect or parry incoming attacks while attacking with your own attacks. And if those attacks get through, it’d just be better to be wearing a suit of armor that just...deflects the blows away from all those tiny narrow gaps in the armor by how the armor is built.

But anyways clearly armor class doesn’t make sense because the armor preventing my attack from getting through...wouldn’t...prevent my attack from getting through if I just hit the armor. It’s the Morrowind argument of ‘I made the models intersect why didn’t I do damage’ but in tabletop format jesus christ.

Look this guy hit dead on and did fuckall, you can see the sword fucking bending backwards because he also fucked the edge alignment.

See, funnily enough this was less abstracted in 3rd edition, since you had your total AC, your AC without your Dexterity Bonus or any other dodging based bonuses (Flatfooted) and your AC without your armor bonuses (Touch) which certain special attacks targeted but you know, babies going out with bathwater.

The reason it all works like this is so the game runs faster, by the way. Rolling to-hit vs a semi-static target number means you can run the game faster and spend less hours of your life doing the combat and more of your life roleplaying. You wouldn’t get that from how long combat usually takes but that’s because even before we had phones to be distracted by people would be playing smash bros at the session while other people did their turns. Otherwise you can get too granular with a system like this, because of all the raw factors that can go into a fight. You need a level of abstraction to keep shit snappy.

This isn’t helped by the fact that 3rd edition onward had Damage Reduction which is such a fiddly fucking mechanic that everyone immediately latches onto as a replacement for armor

3. There aren’t a bunch of other mechanics to the combat because morons rightly disliked how badly 3rd edition managed those options

3rd edition dropped the ball. I have two posts people like to give me notifications about. But tl;dr it has a whole ass system where you could do combat maneuvers in place of attacks so you could do cool shit like take a dude’s sword, stab them with it, and throw it at someone else. It just took a billion feats to get there and you needed to be high enough level that that kind of trick didn’t much matter.

So to make D&D combat more realistic you have to re-implement all the shit that was taken out and put on the Battlemaster Fighter only, but now that we have a dichotomy of ‘Fighter who identifies as being good at fighting’ (Battlemaster), ‘Fighter who identifies as being bad at D&D’ (Champion), and ‘Fighter that identifies as being good at D&D’ (Eldritch Knight), you have to re-implement these features without shitting on Battlemaster.

So in order to make the game meaningfully interesting you have to struggle to re-implement all of these mechanics

Which you aren’t gonna do or do particularly well, and it won’t fix the fact that the Wizard player will still fuck your game over a barrel and not call back the next night.

So why the fuck are we here

I’m not one to victim blame but you clicked read more.

We’re here because you should play a different fucking game if you want realism. I’m serious. Fuck like, I could summarize my entire blog with this:

I keep seeing people wasting massive amounts of design talent on a game that will not love them back, toiling away miserably trying to make a game into something it’s not. Also because D&D’s core assumptions of shit are flawed and built on horrible legacy bullshit, but that’s more shit for another post.

D&D is your bargain bin scaling fantasy game. It doesn’t do anything else:

TL;DR

#ttrpg #ttrpg ramblings #my ramblings #anti-D&D Action

6 notes · View notes

jess-the-vampire · 3 years

Note

I remember you saying something on Instagram about comparing Belos and Star's actions to merging the world's. And you said you found the farmer's more reasonable. Why do you think that?

it's more about how their motivations are presented.

Now for starters, belos from the beginning is presented as the villian, he is the villian, this is his evil plan, so the idea of him doing something like this fits because it does sound like something a villian would do and it's presented in a rightfully negative light.

Star is not, she's meant to be the hero and by the end when she gets this idea she's still meant to be the hero and we are meant to AGREE with her. Except the show does a poor job of making her actions seem justified and heroic.

Sure, she's saving the monsters kinda by doing this, but the circumstances around destroying magic are far larger and far worse and this action to save the monsters was both temporary in the long run....and really only felt made because of selfish actions by star.

It doesn't come off like the victory win the writers are trying to make it.

In the world of star vs, magic is more of a neutral force, it's never presented as being inheritly evil on it's own, pretty much all bad actions done by magic in this universe.....are done by a person. So star treating magic like it's the reason everything sucks is so baffling because it's really not.

We don't even meet that many people who even are allowed to use it in the first place.

Magic wasn't really the thing that ruined her life, it was the poor choices made by the queens and MHC, how they used their magic and how the ways they used it hurt people.

But instead of blaming it on the people, star blames the magic itself and says "Well, let's go destroy it". Except, magic is shown to be connected to thousands of other dimensions, and that there's tons of innocent magic creatures who did nothing wrong who are gonna be killed by this, or that magic is the reason the worlds can connect in the first place meaning star effectively is separating millions of people forever by making this choice for the entire multiverse.

Because she personally had a problem against magic, everyone else has to suffer and die i guess.

It's more dumb if you argue she did it for the monsters because again, it's a people problem. Mina still is gonna hurt monsters without magic, she's just gonna a new way to do it. So we destroyed magic for millions of people, committed genocide, and separated so many.....but we temporarily saved this one group of monsters in one single dimensions i guess....so....victory?

And star's supposed to be the good guy here.

And of course the merge that only happens for starco's sake, which is also supposed to be good even though one of the plots of the show revolved around how the monsters and mewmans couldn't get along because of colonization and racism and stuff. But sure, combine earth and mewni for these two teens, who cares about the rest of the planet and the monsters who already had a tough time as is.

So star destroys magic and merges the worlds, and her reasons for it are flakey, not very well thought out, and mishandled because she just seems selfish and awful and not the hero she's trying to be.

Magic in the toh is different.

For one, it's one dimension, so i don't have to think about belos killing magic for millions because of how this world works (Though he's the villian anyway).

But really the most important part, is magic is shown to be chaotic and hurt people in this universe, and it might help that everyone does magic in this show, but we are presented with magic and how it harms people far more. We get to see the effects of curses, we see the beasts that evolved from magic, magic is less of a tool and is more part of the world itself and we get to see it's good and bad sides.

But really, what sells it is belos has better motivations.

Star wanted it dead because....idk it annoyed her.

From what is being implied, belos hates it because it might've killed off his brother, and made him suffer with a painful curse for years that may of isolated him from everyone, oh and it also killed his friends thanks to fools blood (With the idea of him being philip), and so much more that we might not know about.

Wild magic actually is allowed to be dangerous on the show, and though we are against belos, enough is shown to understand why someone might hate it.

Magic seems far more implied to have made this man suffer time and time again and that's far more of a motivation for him to hate it then star being sick of cleaning up messes other people made with it.

Magic also does a lot of good for star in her verse, we currently can't say the same for belos.

I can see what magic has done to eda, belos, and even the stigma against those without powers like hunter and see why in this universe someone would grow to hate it and even see it as dangerous.

Belos even has fake magic, so even with his want to be rid of it to some extent it's still around in this artificial form that he considers less dangerous.

And while we don't know the full understand of why belos wants a merge, i'm sure his motivations make more sense for him then "these two teenagers need to be together" that went against everything the show stood for.

Belos might be the villian, but his motivations are clear and i feel more sympathy and understanding for why he feels the way he does because of the tragic aspect of his character that is being very well implied.

Star was meant to be the hero, but she made a life-altering choice from a tantrum, that doesn't fit her character nor makes her look good or sympathetic in any shape of form.

He's not more justified in his choice then she was, but i can look at him and understand why far more then why star did it.

#star butterfly #star vs the forces of evil #svstfoe #svtfoe #the owl house #toh #emperor belos

122 notes · View notes

morgana-ren · 3 years

Note

so, idea: good old fashioned villains vs heroes. heroes massacred, shiggy kills a pro hero and is about to kill their sidekick, then the kids they were protected. sidekick says she'll do anything to save them; shiggy does the whole leering 'anything?' thing, expecting her to punch him, or use her quirk -- but she knows she's outmatched, and so she kisses him instead. slightly older reader (like 28), manchild confused shiggy, then we go from there

He’s a total school boy but he’ll never admit it

Liquid red bleeds into white, seeping into the fabric of your slashed hero uniform and settling into the pores of the fabric. Your knees tremble and your body quakes, gripping the wound across your stomach as blood slips through the slats of your fingers. Gravel embeds into your knees, nerves singing with pain. The tears slipping down your cheeks mingle with ash and soot, the fleeting remains of the brave hero who gave his life to keep you from the same fate.

A group of terrified students cowers behind you, trembling from the nightmare to the front.

These aren't just students- they're children. These are children. They cling to each other, cold and hurt and terrified. The brave ones do their best to tend to the few wounded, staring down at the threat that encroaches. Others shrink. Some cry and pray.

All are shaking.

Don't let them see you like this!

You're grateful for the rain; the tears that slip down across your face through your defiant features are hidden. The pain is blinding but you refuse to fall. They need you. You can't afford to fall now. This isn't about you.

He inches closer, the monster clad in black, careless footsteps sloshing through the puddles on the ground as his red shoes stop just short of you. Hands in his pockets, head cocked as he looks down on you with an expression that reeks of condescension. Rain slips through his silver hair, a hideous cackle resounding along side the thunder.

“This is the best the heroes have got, huh? Pathetic.”

The sole of his shoe collides with your chest, sending you careening onto your back. The wound in your side sears as you hit the asphalt, a scream ripping from your lungs despite your will. There’s an unforgiving sting in your cheek as it slides across the terrain, forcing a muffled sob from your throat, pain becoming overwhelming.

He circles you for a moment, sneering with jagged teeth bared. A predator sizing up his fallen prey. Disgust is apparent in his eyes; he hates you. It only lasts a moment before he throws one leg over you, leaning down and straddling your prone form, firm hand gripped on your chin.

“I’m going to kill you, little hero. It’s going to hurt. But before I do, I want you to know that I’m going to kill them as well. Can’t have the next generation of heroes using you as a martyr now can we?”

Fear is palpable from behind you. Between the rumbles of thunder, you can hear the crying and pleading. None try to run- they’re surrounded- trapped by villains that circle around them like ravenous wolves.

You can’t let him do this. You can’t let him hurt them!

“Wait! Please!-” Your mind runs at unforgiving speed, head pulsing and pounding with pain and panic. “Don’t hurt them! Take me instead.”

He scoffs, gripping you by the collar and yanking you up slightly off the ground. “I already told you I was going to kill you. Are you some kind of idiot or something?”

“You can take me back with you. I won’t fight you. You can torture me or kill me or use me as bait. I won’t put up a fight. I’ll go willingly if you please just-” A small hiccup in your chest, knowing you mean every word and the weight it carries. “-Just please let them go. They’re just kids.”

He seems unimpressed, but there’s a small flash across his eyes, one you recognize. Your submission to him in front of all these people, your students, strokes his ego. You swallow down another sob, desperately trying to contain the shivers that wrack your limbs.

“Please, Shigaraki. I’ll do whatever you want.”

His eyes narrow, studying your face and then further down your body, gaze lingering on less than appropriate places for far too long for you not to understand where his mind has steered him. “Whatever I want, huh? That’s a pretty stupid thing to say when you don’t know what I’ll ask for.”

You’re fairly certain now what it is he wants, and if it saves the lives of the innocents behind you, you’ll lock away your pride and your dignity and whatever else you need to if it keeps them safe. Shigaraki Tomura is a man after all, and ultimately men are simple creatures with even more simple desires. With a shaky gesture, you lift your palm up from the ground and place it gently on his own hand that grips your collar.

“Anything.”

His eyes widen, and for a moment, his expression falters. He looks confused, flustered even. Given your close proximity, you can even see the blush blossoming in his cheeks and down his neck. He looks almost innocent in this second, like a school boy faced with his first crush. You imagine he almost certainly didn’t expect you to acquiesce, let alone encourage his line of thinking.

Disbelief. He looks like he doesn’t believe you.

You slowly push up towards him and his fist tightens on your clothing. He expects an ambush. That you’ll get his guard down with your seductions and then strike when he’s lost in the fog. A good tactic, but in this scenario, it sports a one hundred percent chance of failure. Shigaraki is an excellent fighter, and an even more impressive strategist. The only winning move is the one he has never planned for.

Before he can recoil, you smash your lips against his.

You can feel his breath hitch, eyes widening in total incredulity. For the first time in nearly his entire life, Tomura Shigaraki is at a complete loss. The hoots and hollers from the low lives under his command mesh into the sounds of the storm that rages around you, but you shove down the humiliation and defeat. Being a hero means saving them- No matter what the cost to you.

When he finally finds the mind to kiss you back, it’s the antithesis of everything he stands for. It’s meek and gentle, almost fragile in nature. It’s painfully apparent he doesn’t know a thing about what he’s doing, but he indulges none the less. His tongue slips across your lips and you’re prepared to take the hit but he pulls away as suddenly as he accepted it.

“Fine-” He huffs, breathless as he pulls you both callously to your feet, ignoring the agonizing wound laced across your ribs. The pain is too much and you almost fall but he catches you with a strange amount of consideration. He doesn’t quite carry you- That would look weak after all- but he takes a considerable amount of strain off of your body as he keeps you upright.

”Leave the brats. They’re useless.” He commands his small platoon away to some measure of disappointment from them. “I got what I came for anyway.”

#Shigaraki x reader #Strangely NOT nsft #Gods I am so hungover I couldn't remember half of the words in my vocab #hehe he all flustered #'Don't you know what I'm going to make you do?'

116 notes · View notes

notyetbulletproof · 3 years

Text

“A boy from the barrel who had become something worse”.

Before the end of the book and considering that it follows the line about Inej - “A Suli girl who had become a killer” (the juxtaposition of that!). I think we can all agree that it’s suppose to suggest that Kaz had become worse than a killer. Vengeance had made him a monster? A soul beyond redemption?

At the end of the duology though? What’s worse than a killer in a place like the barrel? What’s worse than a monster? A good man. A better man. Having a heart. Being in the barrel and of the barrel and choosing to be more than the debauchery? Could that be an alternative option for what constitutes as “worse”? Kaz still rejects the idea that he’s a hero. A good man. Inej reminds him that his insistence that he is a monster can do more good than even he believes. There is more. He can be more than the barrel. He’s not just any other barrel boss. He’s Kaz Brekker, he decides what he wants to be. Don’t go after working folks and fair pay. Go after the scum, the evil, the people that profit off the mindless suffering of others.

Become something worse — a different kind of vigilante. A different kind of “good”. Their kind.

As @murderbabies (who I thank again for talking about my random Crows/Grishaverse screamy times with me) was saying—- by the end of the series Kaz starts to strive to be something different, something more, a better man. The meaning changes.

And when we think about it, it changes for all the crows.

“A Gambler”, Jesper, starts to confront the issues that have fuelled his restless and occasionally reckless nature. He starts to find meaning in who he is and what he can do. Starts to explore what embracing that side of him might lead to. Starts cracking away at the misplaced shame that he placed on his identity and how it’s so painfully tied to the loss of his mother. His conversation with Inej always cuts so deep because it’s someone who loves you (and who you love) telling you to stop ignoring your pain. That it’s okay to hurt. That your hurt is just as important as everyone else’s. You don’t have to push it down anymore. To have Inej tell Jesper to not try and erase or make it disappear?? The beauty of that! What that means for them both. To have each Crow point something out to him in different ways and have Jesper start to accept that it’s not “part of his personality”, it’s a manifestation of ill coping mechanisms he’s developed to deal with the trauma he’s suffered. He also found love. Someone that sees him as he is and all that he could be if he sees what they saw. Protect Jesper Fahey.

“A Convict”, Matthias, raised to believe his enemies were inhuman and lived for the cause and revenge— changed. He kept his honour. He fought for a cause he believed in. A found family and the promise of a better world for his people and homeland. A world where they didn’t fear what they didn’t understand but lived up to the ideals of their religion. He literally died trying to help another person and FORGAVE the person for fearing what he didn’t understand. Matthias, a kid soldier who grew up and saw the world differently. Who questioned his own beliefs and would drink the poison no longer because he saw the truth for himself. “He’s like us Nina.” (😭😭). That battle between what he was taught to believe and what he actually knew to be true. Loving someone enough to not just see where you’ve both hurt each other but the error of your beliefs. To see the humanity in other people. Gosh. I cry for you Matthias.

“A wayward son”, Wylan, who for most of his life was made to feel he was less because of a learning disability. His strengths overlooked, played down. His learning differences treated like a death sentence. His father literally tried to get him killed because he couldn’t read?!?! He could learn better with music, setting things to rhythm. Excellent at math and science (You’re a fool Jan). Wayward because he was difficult to control? To mould into a corrupt mercher? Or because he was his own man even as a child? Even if he didn’t understand yet that family isn’t always found in the people that you’re related to. By the end, he found his family and reunited with his mother. Found love. His people. The ones he’d break rules for, risk it all for. More than that? He found himself. His purpose. Learned that the biggest thing holding him back was his own shame. That he wasn’t a wayward disappointing son. He had a disappointing (and evil) father. He’s not stupid (say it again and Jesper’s gonna deck ya!), he learns differently. You kick ass Wylan.

“A lost Grisha”, Nina, raised to be a soldier, a spy. Raised to defend her country at all costs. A country that within itself still has a tenuous relationship with her people. A country recovering from civil war. At the beginning she’s a grisha without a country. Staying to ensure she helps rectify what happened to Matthias. Beating herself up for who she had to become. She accepts the offer to join the Dregs, becomes besties with Inej. Makes a home. Her loyalty was to Ravka but by the end? It hasn’t changed per se, it’s grown. Her loyalty is to her home, to her found family. She risks EVERYTHING, to save her friends. To protect them. She can’t bring herself to do what a soldier would do and end Kuwei. She agrees, he’s like them. He’s a kid who had no say. Nina stepped into the person she was born to be— a protector. She wasn’t lost anymore and she wasn’t just Grisha, she is the Queen of Mourning. She’s a friend. She’s a Crow. She’s unstoppable. She survived what should have killed her. She fought so fucking hard to come back to herself, to embrace who she now was, who she had become. She found purpose again. Confronts the truth about her own country, the faults as well as the triumphs. She continues on. You’re unstoppable Nina.

“A Suli girl who became a killer”, Inej. The juxtaposition of those 2 identities. Who the Suli are, who they are understood to be, what they believe VS. What Inej had to become to survive. “Rather live free as a killer then die as a slave”. She’s a spy. She’s lethal and dangerous to those that cross her and hers. Still there is how Inej feels each time she has to make that decision. Why it’s done— to protect her found family, in self defence. Yet her reverence for life. The sins she atones for. The code she holds herself to. The Saints she seeks forgiveness from. Her unwavering faith. Her strength of character, the courage of her convictions. The purpose she finds. She isn’t going to let anything else be taken from her and on top of that?? She decides that she won’t let those wretched people take any more from any child or person. She decides her purpose is to save as many as she can and to take down as many of the bad guys as she can. All that trauma and it didn’t change her goodness. With Kaz and the Dregs, she had more agency than before but now she’s in-charge of her own destiny and she’s choosing to save others. She’s a killer, sure, if you’re a bad dude. In so many ways she’s a saviour too.

With all this is in mind, I really do think that “something worse” doesn’t mean monster. Well, to their enemies, maybe. I think it’s set up like that and just like all the Crows have, Kaz becomes something more. They always were, he always was but it took time for them to see it. It took time for Kaz to see it for himself too.

God bless The Crows.

#kaz brekker #Inej Ghafa #jesper fahey #Wylan van eck #Nina zenik #Matthias helvar #six of crows #crooked kingdom #I am rambling and going off on my tangent #feel free to add to this or reshape this #it’s the spiral of my thoughts. wheeeee #I love these 6 kids #clearly good is different here okay. good in reference to the good they can be

41 notes · View notes

starlightshore · 3 years

Note

hi sorry if this seems a little rude, if chara isn't really bad, then why do they kill them on the soulless route?

(I always wanted to know about it)

(not rude at all! feel free to ask questions like this its no skin off my back) which “them” are you referring to? that could mean different things like: the underground, the player, Frisk ect. its a little vague)

but I’ll try to answer this with the above being vague anyway

---

hoo boy this ended up long LMAO. coming back from the bottom to say Sorry this ended up this lengthy. here’s some

content warnings: discussions of canon and implied dark topics such as: abuse, murder, death, suicide, and self harm

---

TLDR: Chara is a complex character with a rich backstory and motivations. by looking at the full game, you understand they’re a mentally ill child who is just following the player’s directions. YOU do the killing, Chara is your partner in crime because you force them to be.

Chara is the narrator in ALL routes. they are the UI, stats and narration.

it is Chara’s memories that convinces Asriel to remember how they met and how much they loved each other when alive. Chara is key to Asriel freeing the underground, they are a god dang hero

let’s look at canon Chara pre-game to fully understand what’s going on though.

-Chara lived in a village close to mt.Ebott. they decided to climb mt.Ebott for “a not happy reason” and hated humanity

-once underground, they become the sibling to Asriel and become a full fledged Dreemurr. They love their family. “it’s a dusty photo. everyone is happy.” (which, if you believe is the photo of Chara holding the flowers next to Asriel, implies Chara is smiling under them and their bangs) + the Mr.Dad Guy sweater + baking a pie for their dad

-in the underground, there’s the Deltarune prophecy. it reads as follows: “There is a prophecy. The Angel... The One Who Has Seen The Surface... They will return. And the underground will go empty.“

-Toriel and Asgore are both strong believers of the Deltarune as seen by the symbol on their clothes and homes.

-Chara has been to the surface and therefore, most believe Chara is the angel that will free them.

-Chara is a small child, who hates humanity, loves their family, and by fate is destined to free monster-kind. they are determined.

-Chara and Asriel decide to prank Asgore by making a pie with buttercups instead of a cup of butter. They learn the flower is poisonous and Asgore gets sick, but ends up fine. Chara laughs it off, but if one is paying attention to the game, you will see that their is a very common theme of smiling/laughing when distressed.

Toriel smiling, laughing when being killed in no mercy

Migospel’s whole game-play is about how one acts around others vs. alone “ Laughter hides the pain. [Alone]”

sans can be seen as a broad example

a VERY good example is the snowdrake’s mother fight:

“You laugh, and keep laughing. It's SO funny, you can't stop. Tears run down your face. | ... what? You didn't do that? [Laugh]

But it's not funny. [Laugh again]”

-Chara hates humanity (epilogue Asriel says that) and by extension, would hate themself. you can read into the tools being worn down to being blunt + no knives in the kitchen as being precautions Toriel put in place to prevent Chara from self-harming. Chara attempts suicide twice in the game’s story.. Also! It’s implied Chara was abused before coming underground. “ If you're cuter, monsters won't hit you as hard.-faded ribbon flavor text” and the fact Chara thought to kill the villagers in the first place, they didn’t get the “kill or be killed” mindset out of nowhere. + abuse can manifest in depression, anxiety, and Chara displays behaviors of coping with abuse. (harder to explain that detail, but Chara’s control-issues and distrust just SCREAMS abuse to me)

Chara is a kid with severe mental illness, implied to be abused, and all while younger than 13. that’s a lot to take in. which is also why a lot of people are upset at “Chara is evil” theories because it ignores that context and demonizes them. which is. bad. for lots of reasons. but mainly for how it handles the topic of survivors of abuse and mental illness and they’re just a freaking kid.

-anyway, long tangent aside... so this next point is more so how I interpret the order of events: Chara climbs the mountain to die, but trips and meets the Dreemurs. They become beloved by the kingdom and believed to be their savior. Chara can’t escape humanity’s history of trapping monsters or their own history of their horrible village, and when Asgore is poisoned they realize they’re bad too. It’s a common mindset of suicidal people to want to die before their image is tarnished. die while things are still “good,” when they’re still remembered fondly.

to cross the barrier, you need to have a human soul AND a monster soul. if Chara wanted to, they could of killed any of the Dreemurrs and absorbed their soul. But instead, the buttercup plan is a really freaking horrible way to die. Buttercup poisoning is awful. seriously, look up the symptoms. it’s bad. which is also why i believe Chara hated themself so much to put up with that form of death. -then they die, and become part of the Asriel and Chara fusion. (it should be stated they did not know Chara would be conscious.) the plan they agree on is to kill enough humans to break the barrier and free monster-kind, but Chara wants revenge, which is why they want to kill the humans and not negotiate like Toriel suggests Asgore could of done.

-Humans of course freak out at seeing them + their corpse and attack. Asriel realizes Chara was wrong and doesn’t want to murder, lets himself be killed. As they’re dying Chara screams “its kill or be killed” and both die. -years, possibly a century later depending on what side of the time-skip debate you’re on, Chara awakens in Frisk’s body and interacts with You, the player.

-they likely see you as the True Angel, and follow your orders just as Frisk just kinda vibes and does so as well.

-if you keep murdering, frisk distances themself from the world. (implied by what sans says about LV): * LOVE, too, is an acronym. * It stands for "Level of Violence." * A way of measuring someone's capacity to hurt. * The more you kill, the easier it becomes to distance yourself. * The more you distance yourself, the less you will hurt. * The more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others.

-Frisk, NOPEing out of the whole thing, just leaves Chara, who feels like they are the literal stats of the universe. THAT is why Chara is only really fully present in no mercy, and only narration otherwise. Frisk’s autonomy and how much control they have are directly tied to your LV. Frisk is only named in the pacifist ending because they’re rewarded with the acknowledgement that they’re a person.

-The biggest detail is that it’s not Chara who kills, but YOU. Chara is your partner in crime, and only attacks the player when you refuse to ERASE the world and they kill you themself. it is your power and your determination that brought them to this world, and it is through your actions they believe power is the only they must fight for.

-also, both Chara and frisk are influenced by the player and react differently depending on your actions. (the dog food bag is described as “half full/half empty” depending on your LV, a reference to how one looks at glasses of water to be more optimistic/pessimistic and Frisk will feel good/bad depending on LV when punching the mad dummy in waterfall.) Chara is always just following your lead. they’re not controlling Frisk, you are. however, they are in control of the choices (as confirmed in no mercy you don’t get to choose answers for papyrus’ question and he calls you out on it. personally i like to think each choice answer is from each kid)

anyway yeah that's my overly long analysis of how Chara’s backstory is used to define who they are and then how being revived from the dead, they follow your steps to apply the “kill or be killed” logic to it’s extreme end.

also, its not like Chara is happy about following your orders either.

they think a plant is judging you. they talk about your sins in the sans fight. they call Undyne a hero despite fighting her. Chara doesn’t want to kill Asriel, but once it happens they go ballistic, stabbing repetitively, clearly upset. that then instantly gets them powerful enough to destroy the world, as with how LV is described as distancing yourself and such. Asriel meant the MOST out of everyone, he was their best friend, forever.

#Anonymous #personal stuff #sams replies #long post #undertale analysis

77 notes · View notes

magpie-of-a-birb · 3 years

Text

@paint-the-ravenclaw tagged me in on sorting Sanders Sides characters (that post is here), and I decided to make a whole new post for it. Here we go-

Editor Magpie here! It's a good thing that I made this a post of its own, cuz boy is it long. Patton's section took up three pages hand-written, if that tells you anything.

(Also, beware spoilers. If you're not up-to-date, I may reference things you haven't seen yet)

Patton

I'm starting off with Patton because, quite frankly, what he's got going on is fascinating. Sad, but fascinating.

He's a very obvious badger primary, but he also has a badger performance layered over top of it. If you've seen The Good Place, or listened to the @sortinghatchats podcast episode where they sorted TGP characters, you'll be able to see that this is the same as what Tahani did.

Patton's primary is for his community, but he also has an idea of what his primary should be. Not "should" as in aspirational, but "should" as in expectation. So he makes a badger primary performance, something that says "look at me! I'm a good person!" but creates self-loathing because he believes that he isn't living up to that performance. And here's the kicker:

His performance is exploding.

He thinks that, to be a good person, he (and Thomas, by extention) has to sacrifice everything for others. That is the badger primary performance that he thinks he should be.

Disclaimer: this is an unhealthy example of badger primary. No house is inherently healthy or unhealthy. There are many healthy, thriving badger primaries, and they are beautiful, just as every other house is.

And his exploding primary put a lot of strain on his badger secondary (he's a caretaker and loves courtier badger). He has to work hard and show up for everyone all the time and he... can't. It's not possible.

The fact that he cannot humanly live up to his own expectations makes his secondary start to burn. You especially see that in the courtier aspect of his secondary. He feels like he should be the "optimistic, goofy dad-friend" and he loves using courtier badger for it. But he burns out from being there for everyone, that face becomes unreliable in courtier badger because he can't feel it all the way down, he's not happy. So his badger starts to burn, and what does he do?

He takes up an actor bird model to handle the strain. He's used to the "happy, goofy dad" mask that it's easy for him to shift it from courtier mirroring to an actor role.

And whew boy, is that actor bird obvious in Selfishness vs Selflessness Redux. When it's clear that the others aren't siding with him, Patton isn't able to shift to match the change to make a stronger argument - as a snake or mirroring badger could - so he doubles down on his role.

"Remember, guys, I'm morality. My role is to make correct moral choices. Look! This is my good and helpful mask! I'm good and helpful!"

He does that all the way until he's sure that it's a lost cause, and that's when he snaps. But his snapping isn't drawing what he knows of the others, it's not using things that he knows will hurt them, not as we expect him to (especially since he uses similar tactics to manipulate Thomas into doing the right thing).

He transforms. Because he can't be angry. He's not allowed to be angry. Being angry is wrong. If he's angry, according to his exploding primary performance, then he's not a good person.

So he transforms. Because he can only be angry if he isn't himself. Patton chooses not to be Patton. He chooses to be a monster. Instead of translating his thoughts to fit the role (like with his dad role) he's using the role to justify the feelings.

Another disclaimer: like with primaries, no secondary is inherently healthy or unhealthy. There's even an example of healthy actor bird later in this sorting.

Logan

First off, his bird secondary is obvious. He loves collecting and using things. He loves lists and plans. His insecurity stems from his tools not being enough. He is a bird.

His primary is a bit more difficult because he doesn't usually make decisions from a moral standpoint, that's not his job. It's clear that he's not a felt primary, and due to the lack of intensity in general, I think snake can be ruled out. So, bird primary.

Virgil

His system is very lion primary. His gut says that something is wrong and he acts immediately.

His tactics are very bird secondary, preferring to construct a reasonable argument about why Thomas should be anxious over forcefully shoving panic at Thomas (which he does do when he sees the situation as an emergency and he needs Thomas to stop/do something now, but it's not his preference).

On top of that, Virgil has a birdy mask up at the beginning of the series. It's one born out of duty (lion primary), so he embodies the role that he's expected to play as anxiety (a bad guy who's goal is to make Thomas scared) instead of being himself (someone who's trying to keep Thomas safe). So he plays the role until he's shown that he doesn't have to.

Also, look at how he acts in the debate between him and Logan. All of his snap-back retorts are of the same type: general, playground insults. They're predictable and formulaic, like a default response a bird may have when they don't know how to respond while in a given mask. Basically: he's falling back on pre-set common phrases that the character he is embodying would say when he's not "translating" his thoughts into those of his character fast enough.

On a side note, I think that's how you differentiate between actor bird from the other forms of masks: playing a role with a tangible name.

Anyways-

Roman

LION BIRD LION BIRD LION BIRD

He hoards music, plays, movies, and musicals like a corvid and references them like nobody's business. His quick wit is in wordplay ("panic at the everywhere" much?) which, while not indicative of a bird secondary, is bird-flavored icing on the cake.

He lives in actor bird, and while his role isn't always applicable, I think that Roman is an easily-visable example of healthy actor bird. He loves and takes pride in his roles and doesn't solely use them as a shield (like Patton and, to a lesser extent, early Virgil).

He's a bit of a glory hound, he's attracted to the glamor that being a well-known creative and a hero entails, and that feeds into his default Hero/Prince in Shining Armor role. But it's wrong for him to pursue that at the expense of those he loves being miserable (see: Selfishness vs Selflessness).

Remus

Remus shares his primary with his brother. However, he's a horizon/fey lion. Everything that is fun is good which, when combined with his loves-to-mess-with-people snake secondary, spells pain for everyone else in a garish neon-green sign that smells vaguely of a landfill and intentionally leaves glitter everywhere.

Janus

Janus is a double snake. His person is Thomas, and anything is okay (especially deception) if it's to protect him.

Bonus sort: Thomas

Thomas is an interesting character. Because he is a character, within the context of Sanders Sides, that is. Sanders Sides!Thomas is not the same as Real Life!Thomas, even if the former is heavily inspired by the latter. As such, I think that there's enough to sort Character!Thomas.

Character!Thomas is very much a badger primary. It makes sense that he'd match primaries with Patton, his morality, but more so, the entire premise of the show has heavy healthy badger messages. Most episodes are about choosing the right thing to do, and Thomas makes that decision depending on what his community (the Sides) think. He's clearly a felt primary, but if he were a lion, then the "get input from others" aspect of the show would not be as effective.

His secondary is less obvious, but I have to go with bird. Most of the Sides have bird secondaries, and as they're aspects of Thomas, that would logically reflect his secondary to some degree. And he has many of the same hoards as the others, joyfully drawing on and pointing out references to things.

There may possibly be a badger (particularly courtier badger) model in there, but I can't confidently say that it's the case.

In Conclusion:

Patton: badger primary with an exploded badger primary performance. Semi-burned badger secondary with an unhealthy bird secondary model (specifically actor bird)

Logan: double bird

Virgil: lion bird

Roman: lion (glory hound variant) bird

Remus: lion (fey/horizon variant) snake

Janus: double snake

Thomas: badger bird with a possible badger secondary model

#magpie speaks #magpie sorts #sanders sides #patton sanders #logan sanders #virgil sanders #roman sanders #remus sanders #janus sanders #thomas sanders #long post #tw long post #sortinghatchats

43 notes · View notes

tsu9live · 3 years

Text

Before I start, this is in no offence to anyone else’s opinion. You are all valid and probably make more sense than me. This is a bit of a rant and then a short character study.

Warning: This got too long.

I tend to come online for manga updates and ended up reading through opinion posts because I am a curious cat. Most of the time I come across really well-thought out posts, really valid points. But then MHA is also a soap opera/family drama where the main character is not supposed to have any progress in his story unless its to bolster or move along the other favs . But then they shouldn’t be bolstering his story either because why is a story about Deku’s journey all about Deku?

But then there are people who are happy Deku is finally edgy and they want him to wipe the floor with his classmates who love him and are willing to fight him if only to get through to him. So there are both extremes and honestly there is validity in all these thoughts because despite the writer’s intentions, a reader brings the story to life.

I personally hate making my own predictions because most of the time I feel it ruins the experience of reading a work for me. I go in with different expectations and when the story goes a different way I don’t enjoy it as much but I feel its more my fault.

So I do understand and respect the difference of opinion because there is no fandom without discourse.

In my opinion though, this Deku solo arc was a long time coming and I think Horikoshi has handled it really weird. I’m still trying to understand what he wants us to think about.

A story about heroes and putting your life on the line for someone else is controversial, but, I thought it was a given. Recklessness had been part of Deku’s character but an overly-cautious character would do nothing. Deku’s lack of self-preservation wasn’t unnatural for a hero, he rushed in to save Bakugo from the slime-villain when Pros stood by putting himself at risk but it spurred AM to act. Katsuki experienced it as well during the war arc, when his body moved to save Deku.

Going to Kamino to save Bakugo was suicidal, reckless and potentially flawed but story-wise it made sense. How is hero-work anything than risky? Kirishima and Todoroki initiated it.

Disclaimer: Deku, Bakugo, Uraraka, Momo, Toga and Shigaraki are characters that are very dear to me because they have had me extremely invested since the beginning of the story. This is my personal opinion, flaws, rant... basically me working through my feelings about this manga I had been obsessed with recently.

1) There is an opinion where Bakugo had a right to be upset/angry/bully Deku because he wanted to be a hero but did nothing for it. Firstly, I don’t understand the need to justify his behaviour when he himself has expressed regret on it. People want others to move on from the “go jump off the roof comment” but won’t stop talking about how everything about Bully Bakugo was justified. Deku was weaker, but he had the same dreams, dreams that were the basis of their friendship earlier on. Regardless of how Deku wanted to achieve them, Bakugo had no right to keep trying to stop him from doing so. No, 5, 10, 14 year old Bakugo did not do so because he had the brilliant foresight that Deku would be self-sacrificial and it was for his sake, he was an angry kid and Deku was a timid, wannabe that confused him, intimidated him even. Taking out his anger was a way of working through those feelings. He was in Deku’s words “a punching bag”. In a world where the powerful reign, Bakugo couldn’t understand how a quirk less, weak little boy could think he could stand shoulder to shoulder with someone as gifted as Bakugo. Yeah, society is very much to blame. The change and maturity Bakugo goes through where he is humbled by a cast of amazing hero students who are just as gifted yet with inspiring personalities and then traumatic consequences of being kidnapped, watching his hero use the last of his powers to hold back a great evil, having that fight with Deku where he bared himself open, failing the licensing exam, training with todoroki, the internship... the war has changed him in a way that has brought out his full potential as a hero and a person. There is a lot to admire about him yet I see so many people fixate on headcanons that glorify his every action/word instead of praising the amazing person he has become/how well written his growth has been.

2) “Deku wanted to be a hero and he did nothing for it”. “He could have been a quirkless hero like Batman.” Listen, the story is about AFO vs OFA first and foremost. Hori has done a good job of worldbuilding and adding a cast of interesting characters that its easy to forget what the main plot point of the story is. But it really is about a weak/timid boy who was born with a sort of handicap who dared to dream to be someone strong enough to have others rely on him instead. A lot of the times people want to become something they feel they needed, someone who gave people hope just by existing. Its natural for someone who is ‘considered useless’ to want to be the most useful person ever. His mother didn’t believe he could do it, Bakugo told him repeatedly he shouldn’t even try, everyone else made fun of him, and his hero gave him a wake-up call, no... you can’t be a hero without a quirk. Deku studied heroes and quirks all his life, hoping he’d find something that could work for his advantage. Not every hero relies on physical strength, their bodies are adapted to the nature of their quirks. Deku’s analysis, quick-thinking and impulsive nature is what helped him progress even after getting the quirk because he didn’t gain control until really late. People act like he was handed power, seem to forget he has just learned to use it without consequences. His studies of quirks also made him the best candidate to get new quirks, quirks that he has learned to utilise as tools quickly and efficiently. He was doing what he thought was going to help him become a hero without guidance, without backing and constant discouragements. Its admirable and relatable. If you don’t relate to him that’s fine, your life was different.

Batman was loaded. Deku is not an inventor. The Editors shot that idea down because it would not have survived in a genre where power fantasies are the main hooks. Aizawa, sure he’s training Shinso because he sees his potential now but he would have either expelled Deku/moved him to General studies on that first day for scoring the least in that test. He changed his mind not because of Deku’s quirk but because of Deku’s ingenuity.

When Deku did find his guidance, he tried to do years of work/training in a short period of time. He acknowledges how far behind he is, that the rest are leagues above him and all he wants is to be able to stand side by side with those incredible people and he would go to all lengths to do so. DEKU has never said he wants to be the number one hero. He always says he wants to be one so reliable he saves people with a smile and later on, he wants to be a hero that can save without having other people worry about him. Bakugo works hard, he’s not just exceptional he works hard for it, all of 1A do but saying Deku does nothing when he is constantly shown, studying, training his body, understanding his shortcomings and working on it is just petty. You don’t like him because of his saviour complex, newsflash, that is a hero thing. Hero course is about that, Deku’s is just highlighted because of how often he gets hurt. How can you be a Todoroki stan and hate Deku (although to be fair its your right, I’m just making a point), the kid saw Shouto and decided that it was more important for Shouto to stop hurting and gave him a hell of a fight. I still remember Shouto’s smile, it gave me goose bumps.

Deku’s lack of self-preservation is a part of his programming so much that he hasn’t noticed it yet. Deku broke his bones, but he didn’t realise the permanent damage. When Deku got injured with Muscular, he was never intending to fight him alone. He wanted backup, his phone was broken and he wanted to get Kouta out and tried but Muscular gave him no opening. He was driven into a corner and fought his way out. Like Aizawa said, “He got that injured because he has no intention of dying.” Before rushing to find Bakugo, he informed his superior first, knowing she can spread the message.

The fight with Stain, he messaged his location to all his classmates, didn’t intend to fight Stain alone, just defend Iida long enough for help to come along. Fight with overhaul, he just wanted to get Eri away and when he understood Eri’s power, he gave her the opportunity to fight back against her oppressor by teaming up with him, keeping her secure with the cape made out of Lemillion’s hair. During the whole fight he was present-minded enough to take the fight away from civilians and managed to prevent damage and casualties. During Natsuo’s rescue he played support.

During the war arc, he realised with despair that Shigaraki was coming in all his destructive glory for him and tried to stop him before but he didn’t object to Bakugo joining him. In the movie Heroes Rising (the initially planned ending) he willingly gave OFA to Bakugo, because he trusts him with his life, and was willing to be quirkless again if that’s what it took to keep the kids safe, and himself and Bakugo alive. Its mostly been good decisions on his part.

Its the war arc that’s been his downfall. Watching his childhood friend/rival almost die, his best friend, his mentors almost die while he could barely hold Shigaraki back set off a fight or flight response in him. The seriousness of how Shigaraki came for him and left such death and destruction in his wake because he was not strong enough and AFO is a monster and the sight of Shigaraki and the reality of his situation pushed him down the current path. His solo arc started well because constantly training in the field has helped him master his quirk, and he had the backup of the vestiges who trained and guided him in learning to use it as a toolset instead of a one-punch solution. Then coming face to face with the flaws of hero society and the power, manipulative nature and destructive intentions of AFO has prepared him emotionally. He is not acting like AM, he hasn’t in a while. He is acting like NANA and i don’t blame him because she’s in his head. No adult stopped him from doing this, instead using him as bait to lure out the league.

When they started realising he’s spiralling out of control, that’s when they realised they messed up.

He’s running on adrenaline/fumes alone and I think he’s actually terrified.

“AFO is OFA’s responsibility” “Tell the world I am here” “You’re not as strong as me yet,” “You are not a worthy successor”

Deku isn’t self-centered and but I agree with the screw loose comment (its years of “you are useless, not good enough, not worthy and I bet a dozen or so concussions, bloodloss, dehydration lol). I know Bakugo means well and that’s how he talks. At the moment, he’s probably the only one whose sole goal is Deku’s survival. Deku’s like a wild animal, terrified, lost and as always backed into a corner. AFO has him where he wants him and I am curious to see how class 1 A are going to get through to him. I don’t want them to fight, all those fanarts of Bakugo reaching his hand out to Deku and then maybe punching him in the face would have been a lot better then the mocking (the slow clap was a little triggering for me) but again maybe it just bothers me and Deku needs it. I’ll just have to wait and see. Deku and his class together would be an unstopabble force and I am waiting for that to finally happen.

P.S. Class 1 A looks so mature, everyone going crazy about Bakugo and his tie and I’m here like, look at baby Kirishima and his roots <3

I’m sorry if I gave anyone a headache lol.

#bnha spoilers #deku #personal rant #character study #midoriya izuku #bnha 319 #mha

13 notes · View notes

popculturebuffet · 3 years

Text

Ducktales: Jaw$! or How Lena Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Webby (Lena Retrospective Commissioned by WeirdKev27)

Trigger Warning: Part of this review contains discussions of abuse which can’t be avoided but I still want to be senstive to my audience and any trauma they’ve gone through. Welcome back weblena world to Shadow Into Light: My Lena Sabrewing Retrospective. And Jaw$ is here, long live Jaw$. Tiffany was a shark who bites the law she was in an episode i’m reviewing called Jaw$.

And it’s the money shark before the storm as next month i’ll be going from two Ducktales reviews a week with the Lena retrospective and the last few episodes.. to three, as i’ll ALSO be covering the Della arc from season 1 in the build up to shadow war. And if your wondering if I expertly planned this to coincide with the finale, to the point the shadow war review and those leading up to it will be on the same week as the finale.... nope. I just got REALLLLY lucky as I already had all of that planned out, and the schedule for the new episodes happened to synch up perfectly, ending just in time for me to revisit the series start and having Magica’s big in person appearance reviewed a week after we get her backstory in Life and Crimes. Though I am VERY happy it worked out this way as I get to properly celebrate the series end with more ducks than ever, and get to cover the pilot the same month as the finale, all things i’d of loved to do anyway and probably would’ve rejiggered my schedule to do. Point is lot of Ducktales content coming for this blog if you like that so stay tuned, but for now join me won’t you under the cut as we dive into a money bin of gay ducks, shadowy machinations, and Bad PR.

We open as Lena and Donald awkwardly sit on the couch, waiting for Scrooge and the Kids to get home. Understandably it’s just.. dead silence.Given their a cynical teenager secretly working for and forced to obey a horrifying shadow monster and a 35 year old man who dosen’t like living in this house due to painful memories of his presumed dead sister.. and painful memories of pain in general, you have a huge awkward bowl of chips and “I really don’t want to be here right now”.

Our heroes return though, and Louie tries to take some of their haul for himself but Scrooge stops that “It goes in the bin not to next of kin. “... Man in a Hurry if you would please.

Thank you. Man in a Hurry everybody. He has to go now, he’s in a hurry.

As you can probably guess I do not like this, as it reminds me WAY too much of Scrooge’s worst “quirk” in the comics: how he’d barely pay his nephews, who are often hard up for cash mind you and one of whom is supporting three children ALONE, take them around the world and reap all the benefit for their hard work. It’s not like he did nothing, he did, but it’s way to exploitive for my tastes and can often sink a story if taken too far. It’s not AS bad... but they all went on the mission they all deserve at least something. I DO get keeping the rarest and most dangerous stuff for himself, as he is bankrolling things and does have two bins and a massive garage to safetly store them. But this just comes off as douchey for this version, who while liable to make mistakes with them, is far more nurturing towards his boys and girls.

Thankfully this was course corrected next season. While Scrooge’s greed was properly restored.. this sort of treatment wasn’t. “Treasure of the Found Lamp” had him undergo character development and realize simply hoarding his treasures isn’t right or fair, and set up a musuem wing so both duckburg and his descendants can see them and get the stories behind them. And on not getting to take things clearly he’s eithe relaxed or stopped the policy as our heroes do have souveneers from time to time. Not a LOT mind, but little things like Dewey having a giant sword or Scrooge outright giving Louie one of his things show he did soften up. Though Della’s return and likely lack of tolerance for this stupid policy in the first place probably helped a lot, I also like to think he did change a bit and realize it was deeply unfair they didn’t get more than a few treasures of their own. So the writers did realize they kind of went overboard here. I suspect this was more to setup for the episode’s subplot and to make Scrooge’s karma at the end feel justified. Speaking of which we get the start of said Subplot as Beakley comes in with a money cart and the news the board called. Why they called his house instead of his phone I don’t know, some things slip through the cracks when you running both a billion dollar company an da trillion dollar fiendish organization for world larceny. I mean they clearly worked themselves so hard the other two apparently died between seasons. That or it was the diet of whiskey, orphan tears and grease in a wine glass both had. Bradford always told them it’d kill them though to his credit he only said I told you so twice at their funeral.

For once no their not mad Scrooge is spending all the money they use to buy fowl jetskis, but because the Company’s having a bit of a PR nightmare now that Scrooge is back in the adventuring game. And we cut to the beanstalk they just adventured on having tore up a good chunk of the town and destroyed large swaths of it just to sell the point this isn’t their normal old man yells at other old man for spending all me money schitck, but a serious problem. As such they’ve booked him an interview with Roxanne Fetherly to improve his image and the companies.

Scrooge scoffs at this, baffled why he has bad pr as his adventuring is GOOD for the city in the long run: He pays for any damages it causes, and likely at a cost no less which is a LOT coming from scrooge, and puts most of the money he makes on these adventures back into the city and his company, creating more jobs and better living conditions. He does get a wakeup call via truly hilarous gag as Launchpad pops his head up to say “Good news mr. mcdee, it missed the orphange!” before getting ready to chainsaw the stalk for him. He quickly realizes MAYBE he needs some PR and agress to the interview.

This whole subplot really plays into one of the series main themes, one Frank brought up a few months back: Risk vs Reward. Adventuring is entirely about this, that adventure is dangerous, can cost you a lot as we see with Della and the aftermath of her terrible decision making, and can hurt people.. but it can also help people, bring money to those who need it, free those who are being oppressed and open new worlds to everyone. This subplot distills it down great: Scrooge is right that his adventures do bring in money, and as seen with the first episode brought in clean water and power with no drawbacks and only asked to be paid for it, which is fair given he still has to run machines and likely help relocate any workers whose jobs are now redundant to other parts of the company and retrain them. But it costs people their homes and jobs, not forever but still as long as it takes to construct, tears up roads and puts people in danger. It’s plots like this that make Bradford the perfect final boss for the series: He’s someone who blinds himself to the reward of all this and only sees the risk, and raises valid points even if he himself is deeply wrong. He’s right Scrooge causes a lot of danger and threat to the world.. but wrong in that he dosen’t see it’s all worth it for the good of everyone.

But enough about future story arcs let’s get back to this one, as Webby excitedly greets Lena and hugs her, realizes she’s not hugging her back then gives her another squeeze anyway after claming to hate hugs when just a LOOK at Webby would tell you that’s false. The two are having a sleepover, Webby’s first ever.. and given Lena’s essentially an Emo Hobo and the closest thing she has to home is that starlight ancient amptheater that’s never properly explained. Seriously ancient ruins near Duckburg dosen’t suprise me, but at least tell me what they are and why Magica chose them. And why Louie hasn’t tried to sell tickets to Dewey boxing a gorilla in them. Or probably a possum I mean their on a budget and gorillas snap necks, but still i’d pay to see that as would we all.

Point is it’s their first sleepover and naturally Webby’s first bit of smalltalk.. is how tucking in can be used for interogation techniques. I’d be more suprised if earlier this season it hadn’t already been shown Beakly regularly enrolls her daughter in the no murder, unless you really want to, hunger games every year. The fact Webby hasn’t become the bat is only because she hasn’t found a costume that’s the right combintion of pinks and purples to instill pantswetting terror yet. That shit takes time.

Lena goes to the bathroom.. to talk to Magica who we properly get to meet. She did speak last time, but this ep is the one that properly establishes her personality for the reboot: she has clever plans, tons of power, if sealed currently, and is a genuine threat.. but she’s also a bit of a ham, in love with the old ultra violence and really short sighted in her plans, something we got hints of last time as her best solution to the Beakly Problem was to just leave her to die and hope scrooge and webby, two people who love solving mysteries and unlocking puzzles, don’t investigate the horrifying death, accident or not, of their only friend and grandmother, and that neither, especially the 12 year old spiraling with grief, would suspect a former spy died. Thoguh in fairness on the spy thing it’s plausable Magica didn’t know that, but still it’s a bad plan. Magica has good ideas but is just so obessed with the brute force way of doing things she forgets the subtle approach works better.. and so far it has well for Lena. Problem is it’s VERY clear by this point that Lena likes Webby, maybe not romantic styles JUST YET but it’s getting there. Webby on the otherhand has been in love with Lena from the freaking concept art which showed her blushing around her.. and that was in her 87 design.. which they thankfully changed. It’s not terrible but it just dosen’t fit well with this universe. Point is Lena is catching feelings and Magica realizes this and tries to gaslight her telling her she’d never acccept the truth abotu her and so on. As we all know and as we’ll see that’s bullshit but it’s an effective manipulation. We also find out Magica’s plan: she had Lena sneak a jewel into the treasure going into the bin, and it’s going to turn into a monster that will seek out the Number One Dime for them. She also vaugely hints that there’s something Lena needs from Magica.

Once Lena returns, and Webby let’s her rabbit know the interogation isn’t over, she gives her possible future girlfirend a gift: friendship bracelets! They both put them on and it’s really fucking cute.. and will be both a tangible symbol of hteir friendship and a plot point several times, something I honestly hadn’t thoguht about till now. Lena, put off by the gesture not because she dosen’t aprpciate it because of the crushing guilt of lying to the one person who cares about her under the insucrtions of a sociopath, goes to Webby’s big old corkboard which is always fun to look at.. especially since it’s clearly the ONLY glimpse at Hortense we’re going to get all series.

We’re not getting Grandma Duck either. Though at least Frank actually regrets that one. But the important part is one of the posts mentoniing Scrooge hates magic, something Webby elaborates on: He hates spells, hexs curses and what not and feels them a shortcut. From the man who has a garage full of them.

I do kid as I did realize there’s a valid expliantion for this: Scrooge will use magical items, protection spells that sort of thing.. but he uses them like anything else as needed. He’s too pragmatic to not say, use the jewel of atlantis to give a city clean energy and water he can montizie, or the split sword against FOWL.. but more often than not he just dosen’t need them. He collects them because it’s fun, oftne profitable.. and their simply SAFER in his museum wing, garage and second bin will get to in two weeks. He’s seen time and time again how people misuse magic, forget it has a price, or just rely on it instead of actual skill. He’s also clearly been on the bad end of a LOT of evil sorcerers and soreceresses, especially magica. Magic isn’t inherently bad, which in itself is a BIG message of Lena’s arc, it’s just somethign that’s the OPPPSOITE OF everythign scrooge is: sacrifcing others for power, relying on something besides yourself, distance attacks versus up close and personal phsycial attacks.. it was never going to be for him and tons of bad experinces with it only cemented it. He’s just not so stubborn outside of the santa thing to avoid something if it’s going to net him a profit or come in a pinch.

So naturally Scrooge has banned any magic books from his house, as he has no use for spellcasting and any he’d need to keep for saftey or history’s sake are likely at the archives, but just as naturally, Webby smuggled one in and wants to try it with Lena ducking it and asking to play some games. I”m sure Huey has a few yugioh decks in his room go bug him. But before they can decide on one, the boys attack for a PILLOW FIGHT.... which is a sweet gesture and them just wanting to hang out, but ends with them all eating the ground and questioning why they thought attacking the duck equilvent of cassandra cain was a good idea. Louie decides to salvage it with a swim.. but since their pool has a boat in it he has a diffrent location in mind: the bin.

So while they head off to get head injuries, Beakly tries to prepare Scrooge as the Media are vultures and looking for the next scandal with public figures and it’s accurate. But given Scrooge’s natural mood is grumpus, this dosen’t go well at all and even a spray bottle dosen’t exactly help.. I mean it is the best method to deal with grumpy old men but it can only do so much.

At the bin we get a lovely bit as Dewey prepares to dive and his brothers treat it like an olympic one, with both doing commentary, Dewey’s apparently response to if he was worried about brain damage was Nerp, and we get the wonderous national anthem of dewdonia. Just nice as well as lovely to see the brothers just having a crack and enjoying each others company with their own weird injokes but without the injokes feeling as forced as they were in “Beagle Birthday Massacre”. Things take a turn though as we see just what magica created with the stone... a giant shark made of scrooges money who eats that fucker in a single bite.. in this case Dewey. Louie and Huey naturally run off panicked.

So while Huey and Louie gain another scarring memory to tell their therapist when their older, Scrooge begins his interview with Roxanne Fetherly who.. honestly just weirds me out. Not for any personality stuff but because she has green feathers. And it just.. really feels WEIRD. I mean green ducks are a thing in real life.. but it just looks off to have such a pastel color on a duck when the other colors are white or tones meant to invoke real world races, allowing ducks to be black, latino, asian and so on and so on coded. That’s fine and blends in fine.. but with that metaphor the green just really dosen’t fit well at all. It feels like an early decision they made, but decided not to retcon or go with for anyone else which makes it all the more weird. We’re 3 seasons in , almost at the end, and the only other green duck we’ve seen was like that because of magic and the offputting nature of it WORKS for magica. Here I just don’t get it and I never well. But naturally Roxanne starts in on invasive, gotcha questions with no real good answers or time to respond, so fox news level questions, and then asks what part of ireland he’s from.

Naturally that sets him off so while that rant goes on, literally next time we see him he’s still going on about it, we cut to the girls playing truth or dare.. and given Webby’s first question is about deepest darkest secrets the boys once again save her by running in... to report on the monster she created that just ate their brother. Lena brushes it off but does get them not to go to scrooge claming he’ll throw them to the shark himself. I mean he’s not comics scrooge so he probably woudln’t but their also two scared 11-12 year olds so it works well enough. They just need a way to go after the money shark. Enter launchapd who in the second best bit of the episode, says he sensed his best friend dewey was in danger. Beck’s delivery is what sells it.. and I’m not going to question it. He’s somehow alive despite presumibly living off a diet of spaghett-o’s, barely avoiding a car accident on his best days, and as we’ll find out later believing children in costumes are monsters he summoned when he was 8. The fact he suddenly has spider sense specifically related to people he cares about is honestly less of a surprise than the fact he’s not in heaven crashing God’s Speedboat into God’s Golden Castle with God’s Golden Lion riding shotgun.

So they do the natural thing and.. steal Donald’s houseboat while he sleeps. He has no more involvement in this episode other than noticing it’s back and not in great condition at the end. I bring this up because this is one of Donalds ONLY apperances this season, and it’s part of the larger more irritating problem that he’s hardly ever used.. despite promoting him as a major part of the series.

I will talk about this more during the Della arc as i’ts more relevant there, but needless to say it bothers me a lot and not knowing how to ballance it’s massive main cast was a constant struggle for the series even up to the final episodes going on right now.

So our heroes head out on the bin late at night, where could the Jaw$ be she’s nowhere in sight. So they decide to use other treasure as a lure they either fished out of a bin or out of scrooge’s bathwater. How bathing in coins gets him clean I don’t know and frankly I dont’ think we want the answers to that and the idea of scrooge fully naked is so horrifying I forgot what I was talking about.

Ah yes our heroes are playing bait the money monster and find out it’s a shark, and Lena.. is not okay with that and goes to talk to Magica inside the boat. Magica tells us she has a name, Tiffany. Awww what a lovely name for a money shark. I would of gone with Rags to Bitches, but I may have brain damage. Lena understandabily does not like the idea of getting eaten by a shark, asked to be informed and while Magica is mad at her for going after the thing, Lena reasonably points out that it was this or Scrooge got involved. Up top Huey tries catching it with a bit of treasure on a rope.. after not shutting up about shark facts because “Facts comfort me when i’m nervous!” Precious angel. But Huey’s leg gets caught and he and Louie, somehow on the latter get thrown up in the air and chomped. Back bellow Webby has a suggestion: using magic. Lena naturally not wanting to blow her cover or really liking magic period is against it for now.

Back at the interview, Roxanne brings on a special guest to prove people don’t like scrooge: GLOMGOLD!

Glomgold may create some issues for the subplot and we’ll get to those in due time, but damn if it isn’t always a pleasure to see him. He’s also on good terms with Roxanne... are.. are we sure this is local news and not fox news? Taking the word of a conservative greedy billionare over a progressive one seems like a fox move. Though I might actually watch fox news if glomgold was a commentator. “I propose a red new deal instead of this blasted green new deal, I throw Scrooge to a tank of sharks connected to a generator, the tank turns red with his blood and that somehow creates power! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT MCDUCK”

So we get the best bit of the episode as Glomgold tries to complain about his building being destroyed which would be fair... if he hadn’t tried to blow up Scrooge’s bin twice this week, with Glomgold going for THREE.. for threee.. for three... it dosen’t go off but it does get scrooge to say he’s glad the building was destroyed. Which is fair but NOT super great PR.

Back at the shark things don’t get better as Webby and Lena argue over the use of magic, I mean as much as they can argue Webby just wants to know why she’s so cagey about this while they go with plan “Launchpad crash into it”. Launchpad also gives a hell of a monologue. Good on you bud. As you can see launchpad’s gotten 100% better since his low point in our last episode. That’s because it’s clear the writers had some struggle ballancing his amped up stupidity with actual competence, making him primarily jokey comic relief in the first few episodes and I wouldn’t be shocked if Terror of The Terra Firmians was written before a lot of the later episodes despite airing around the same time. But by mid-season he’s got his much more lovable charactersation of a dangerous moron..l but one who CAN be competent and is genuinely charming due to how much he cares about his friends and his job. They also dialed down the stupid down to an acceptable homer simpson level: still a danger to himself and others but hilariously so. Point is they fixed it and while i’ll complain about mistakes the show made I will give this crew all the credit for course correcting time and time again and actually listening to fan feedback.

So Webby figures they tried the Jaws option and lost the boat and launchpad, time for plan Magic. They hold hands, EEEEEEEEE, and try a spell.. and it clearly starts working but almost works TOO well, as Lena starts glowing first purple.. then blue. Hmmmm... intresteing. Lena breaks it off and Tiffany breaks out of the bin.. just as scrooge says on the news his adventures aren’t dangerous.

Scrooge naturally goes to face it while Webby wonders why Lena didn’t go for it. To make it a triple Scrooge shows up in time to distract tiffany.. with the number one dime, which as lena found out earlier is on his person rather than at the bin like the public thinks. So while Scrooge puts up a good show.. seriously it’s really awesome and really neat looking, though he also gets VERY upset that people are naturally holding out buckets for the cash shark, which he’s not happy about because well.. he did EARN that money. Most bin money is stuff directly earned by him so fair enough. But while he’s you know, Scrooge Fucking McDuck, and thus puts up a good fight the monster eats him.. and gets the dime stuck in it’s tooth with Magica wanting Lena to grab for it, forgetting that minons, while mildly disposable, aren’t really replaceable when your SOUL’S ATTACHED TO THEM. That’s where Magica’s weakness is. her plans aren’t half bad but as I said, she’s far too bloodthirsty and short sighted. She has better ones than glomgold but ironcially they share the same problem of not thinkign them through. And Magica cares so little for lena she’s blinded to the fact her own personal saftey is tied up in her.

Lena naturally dives for her future girlfrriend and heads into the belly of the beast. And it’s here her REAL moment of truth is. While the one last episode was noble.. it was also easy enough to brush off internal as pragmatisim. Letting Beakly die would’ve brought too much heat and been too easy to quickly go terrible, while saving her got her off Lena’s trail and gave her free reign of the manner. But here? Webby is about to slip into Tiffany’s stomach and whle she hasn’t digested anyone yet given who made Tiffany with it’s likely just because she hasn’t had enough mass to create chainsaws to carve them all up. It’s the Dime or Webby. Lena’s own freedom or the girl she loves. Nothing good comes from saving Webby.. other than Webby. Other than the one person whose truly loved her. I mean think about it: She was created by magica, abused for a good decade and a half. No one but Magica has had a chance to care about her and as we’ve seen Magica only sees her as a weapon to get back at scrooge and not as a person. Webby was the first person she’s ever made a genuine connection with, that’s been there for her, that loves her unconditionally and woiuld be there for her no matter what. And it’s in that moment Lena realizes she can’t sacrifice her for her own good... that after years of having to be selfish to surivive being chained to that monster... she can’t be this time. No mastter what it costs her.. Webby is priceless. So Lena recites the spell, growing bright blue and blowing up tiffany. Lena gladly hugs webby who reciorpates, awww gaybies, and Launchpad hugs dewey. Awww... what it’s still precious he’s a good surrogate uncle. The wacky kind who sleeps in a van on your lawn.

So Scrooge is glad.. though it’s here his subplot falls flat. Him getting attacked by the media and getting a compupance by loosing tons of money from tiffany is fine. Evne if he earned it, his lack of care did bring this on him.. hte problem is they take it too far by having all his nemies show up, him unable to say anything and glomgold blatantly doing so just to steal from him. Otherwise the subplot is fine, a bit heavy on scrooge being a dick but it has to to work and puts him in an awkward situation. But this ending just feels to over the top to realy enjoy. And the series does do over the top humor well so I don’t know what happened here. But having a bunch of outright thieves steel his money instad of a bunch of citizens who didn’t know better and deserved it for the damage, feels wrong and it tastes wrong.

Speaking of feels wrong and tastes wrong we get an INTEINTONAL dose of that as back at the amptheater, Lena and Magica argue about the situation and Magica trying to kill her. Lena tries to walk away but can’t.. phsyically. Magica won’t let her. And this is honestly a very crushing and very well crafted metaphor for how abuse victims sometimes CAN’T escape their abusers. Magica is verbally abusive, treats lena like she’s disposable and constnatly downtalks her self esteem. To Lena magica is nothing but a tool.. but like MANY children caught in horrifcally abusive situations Lena can’t get away. It’s a literal metaphor, an da good one, for how you can’t ALWAYS escape abuse easily, and this especially true for kids who have nowhere to go and hte law on their abusers side more often than not. It’s hard to escape an abusive parent and even harder when they dont’ consider you a person. I thankfully have no personal experince with this but it dosen’t make it any less of a problem nor any less noble of this show to tackle the subject in a frank, if fantastical, way, and a good chunk of Lena’s arc is overcoming this abuse and not letting her abusive past drown her. But for now.. all she can do is agree to do what Magica says till she can hopefully be rid of her. But the light at the end of the tunnel’s coming.. there’s just a whole lotta darkness first.

Next Time: We take a break from the episodes to cover some Lena related comics for a double feature; The first Spies Like Us has everyones faviorite lesbian ducks go on a spy adventure that was never printed in the us for silly reasons we’lll get to and then the 87 ducktales comic dime after dime which features Lena’s predecessor Minima.

Later Today: Close Enough Season 2 is here! I”m going to talk about it! Exclimation Points!

If you liked this review feel free to follow for more. And if you have an episode of Ducktales or another animated show you’d like me to cover just hit me up via my asks or direct messages on here and comission it. And if you’d rather just support me on a monthly basis, head over to my patreon. THE LINK IS RIGHT HERE. Even a buck a month would help and the more of you that donate the closer we get to my Duckcentric stretch goals. The current closest ones are 15, which would lead to reviews of The Goofy Movies and Treasure of the Lost Lamp, and 20 which would lead both to a review of the Super Ducktales mini series, and monthly darkwing duck reviews! So if you like me talking about ducks and want to bolt some duck reviews to the schedule, even a dollar a month would inch me closer to that goal. Eveyr bit helps. But money or not, it’s been a pleasure and i��ll see you at the next rainbow.

#ducktales #weblena #lena sabrewing #webby vanderquack #scrooge mcduck #bentina beakly #donald duck #launchpad mcquack #dewey duck #huey duck #louie duck #magica despell #tiffany despell #jaw$#jaws

36 notes · View notes

ectonurites · 3 years

Note

for the character headcannons ask game, jason and cass?

ALRIGHT ALRIGHT im putting this one under a cut because it got SUPER long bc i cant shut up ever

lets start w jason

A (realistic headcanon):

ok using the ‘realistic’ category here loosely but GOD i love the idea of Damian & Jason having interacted while Jason was staying with the League before getting dunked in the Lazarus Pit. like. this obviously would need to be set more in preboot and following the Lost Days & Batman Annual 25 version of Jason’s resurrection, but god the idea of it just makes me scream in a good way. Like... these are things Jason likely doesn’t remember very clearly once he’s brought back to life more fully by the pit because he was uh pretty catatonic, but Damian being a little kid and knowing about the boy that his mother keeps around the base, that she’s trying to help bring back to health. Damian not even knowing that’s his big brother, just that he’s a presence that shares his mother’s attention. Jason again being unresponsive but like, ok god you know that part of lost days where Talia shows the others observing him that he only fights back at those he perceives as genuine threats trying to hurt him,

Because Jason can perceive that she’s safe, she’s not actually trying to hurt him, he trusts her because she saved him? thinking about lil child Damian who is ya know already being trained in fighting stuff and like the idea of him trying to provoke Jason just to see what happens but Jason not fighting back because on some level be it his connection to Talia or even little baby Damian visually reminding him of Bruce, he knows that Damian is safe too 🥺

and then when Jason and Damian meet again in Gotham as Red Hood & Robin respectively, Jason not really remembering because there was so much going on back then for him, but Damian realizing that oh... that was Him

B (hilarious):

alright so if we are looking at comics currently, in modern stuff jason is what, like 22? hes old enough to drink in the US but still definitely early 20s so around my around my age, thats what im using as a basis here. if we adjust timeline and still consider his death having happened when he was 15, that puts it around 2013. and then coming back to like interacting with people about three years later if we still kinda base things off of the preboot timeframe (since we never got a super solid retelling of the timeline of death -> resurrection -> training -> tries to get revenge aside from knowing he went to the all-caste instead of the lost days version of the story) making him reenter the regular world and stuff around age 18 in 2016. meaning a solid three years of pop culture that he was entirely missing, and like im sorry but he really doesn’t strike me as the type to bother looking into what he missed, he’s kinda busy focusing on other stuff. lets take a quick look at some major things from those years. 2013 gave us ‘what does the fox say’ and ‘the harlem shake’ . 2014 had that time U2 just put a fuckin album on everyone’s phones, The Fault In Our Stars movie came out. 2015 introduced the phrase ‘Netflix and Chill’ and the whole blue & black vs gold & white dress debate happened. imagine any of the other batkids (or even arguably roy during rhato stuff) bringing these things up and jason’s ensuing confusion. thank you for your time

C (heart-crushing):

so. there are two specific instances from rebirth era Jason i want to bring up here and much like a lot of these it’s less a headcanon and more of an inference based on observations, but i wanna take a sec to discuss Jason’s relationship with other people’s death. early in rebirth, Tim ‘dies’ from that whole thing in detective comics. he didn’t actually die, we as readers know, but in-universe they all very much so thought he was dead. frustratingly a lot of the batfam wasn’t really shown mourning him aside from in the Detective Comics Rebirth title itself (which just. when a major character dies even if its temporary- that should have a ripple effect) BUT an exception to that is in RHATO 2016, where we get this offhanded comment in Jason’s internal monologuing

similarly later when Roy, who like, had an incredibly close relationship w Jason that had just gotten mended before Heroes in Crisis, gets fuckin murdered in that whole thing... Jason doesn’t go to his funeral either. He leaves a dramatic voice mail and then visits the grave on his own later, choosing to instead keep working on the mission they’d started rather than going and taking the time to mourn properly.

Jason’s relationship with death is incredibly complicated, obviously. He has died, he has come back, and he now is willing to cross the line most other bats won’t and will kill people when he deems it necessary. I think thats something important though- he doesn’t just like... go around killing for fun (usually, some writers preboot made him a little murder happy but even then usually this still was vaguely followed) he kills people he thinks deserved it. Like, even looking back at the mess of Morrison’s Jason during Batman & Robin 2009, Jason was still trying to bring a sense of justice with who he was killing (”punishment that fits the crime”), it wasn’t killing for the sake of killing. He sees things in this kind of almost black and white ‘people who deserve it’ and ‘people who don’t’ way, and he has no problem dealing with death when it’s with the people he thinks deserve it.

but when someone who doesn’t in his mind ‘deserve it’ gets killed? i think he just goes into total avoidance mode. throws himself into other things he’s doing, tries not to dwell on it too much no matter how much he still thinks about it (this is especially evident in him consistently telling people “i’m fine!” after what happened to Roy, despite bringing Roy up literally like every few issues for a WHILE after he died and very clearly still struggling with it, Artemis is the only one who gets through to him on it a little bit)

but yeah, I just think that from Jason’s relatively unique situation of having been murdered, he knows what it’s like and he is perfectly fine wishing that on people he thinks are bad and deserve it, but it crushes him to imagine the people he loves and cares about having to experience something as painful as what he went through. not to mention the whole “I came back, why do I get a second chance at all this when they, who are a much better person than I am, probably won’t” mindset we get some implications of him having

D (canon is a coward and won’t)

hello DC i am once again insisting a batfam member is bisexual

CASS TIME

A (realistic headcanon):

ok so we know cass likes ballet. thats canon. however i think we also should in general explore cass experiencing other types of dance/performance as well, be it herself as a performer or even just watching. like... god imagine her & like my brain just automatically for group activities puts her with tim steph and duke but also for this in particular I feel would be a Jason embraced activity, but like them going to see a broadway show or some other professional theatre or something, and her just being enthralled by the reading of body language of the performers! like again by any point in current stuff cass does have like, the ability to speak fine (reading still hard tho) but even so I think like. okay im a theatre kid if that’s not obvious from the Everything About Me but one thing I always do after seeing a show is ya know spend dinner afterwards discussing it with whoever i saw it with.

I just think that like, bringing those people i just mentioned to the table to discuss seeing a show after would be so FASCINATING because cass would bring this whole perspective of critiquing their acting on a whole different level- not based on how well they delivered lines out loud, but by what their body language was saying as they moved on stage. like im very amused by the idea of cass getting a totally different picture in her mind about what a character’s motivations were because she was paying way more attention to what their physicality was saying vs the words that were written and how they were delivered. i think the debates her and the others would have would be EPIC there. jason defending the text as it was written adamantly and cass being like ‘ok yeah sure but thats not what they did’

B (hilarious):

cass having no concept of money because why would she bother? is SO funny to me. like it’s not that she couldn’t be reasonable if she wanted to, but like, she knows that the Waynes are well off so it’s not something she actually needs to be concerned about, so she just goes hog wild. takes steph out to fancy dinners and makes steph order for them since cass ya know doesn’t really read the menus, and steph’s like ‘jesus christ this costs-” “don’t worry about it” “but cass-” and she just holds up one of bruce’s credit cards and steph’s still like “but you don’t even know the range-” “it is fine”

bruce does not have the heart to tell her to stop

C (heart-crushing):

i mean this is pretty much canon but especially now after death metal where she’s remembering, not just being told by a guy using weird alternate timeline technology, that she used to be an adopted member of the Wayne family... like that hurts so bad. To look at these people who have ya know been kind to her, Bruce has still been a father-like figure to her (i mean literally from the moment they met in New 52 canon during the flashback in Batman & Robin Eternal, where he’s telling her that she’s not a monster just because of what people forced her to do.... that she’s a hero... that hug.... dad behavior), and they do to some extent treat her as family... But to then really know, to feel and remember that she was actually adopted! She was a part of their family. To look at how she’s been calling herself Orphan while working with them this whole time... that’s so heartbreaking! I have cried about this idea so much! I want so badly a conversation between her and Bruce now where he offers to officially adopt her again, I need it so bad and if it doesn’t happen at some point in the next year or two I will be so distraught.

D (canon is a coward and won’t)

i want an in-depth exploration of cass’ relationship to her own gender. being raised without language and you know with so much of her life being independent (remember: CASS RAN AWAY AROUND THE WORLD WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING ANY SPOKEN LANGUAGE) and outside of an organized society impressing too much of gender expectations on her, i feel like the way she experiences it would be very unique! like sure she’s so far been fine with being assigned ‘girl’ (ya know that comes with batgirl, and how people just automatically treated her based on how she looks) but in terms of gender expression and like her actual relationship with ‘traditional femininity’ etc like... because of how she was raised I just think she’d have a really different perspective on it that could be cool to explore, and I think she’d fall outside of the binary after she really thinks about how she identifies.

tldr on that: she/they nb cass is what i’m getting at here

#onwater #jason todd #cassandra cain #sam writes

26 notes · View notes