#like obviously that's not all there is to it but from the kon context (the kontext if you will).

[mamawasatesttube]

going to bed but thinking about kon and his suicidality as selflessness and how heroism and self-destruction share quite the overlap and how saving the world with his death was heroic but also the culmination of a pattern of passive suicidality he displayed since practically his first day alive. what does it mean when you're so eager and willing to help at any cost to yourself that you assume you will not see yourself grow up? "i don't care what happens to me" is a scary place to be, but "i don't care what happens to me, so long as i can save everyone" is noble and brave, right? so when does heroism become an act of self-destruction? when you truly believe in helping others, but you also think you'll die doing it one day and that isn't enough to stop you... where's the line?

[suzukiblu]

okay FINE I'll do "think pink" for tomorrow's WIP Wednesday, hah. But also now I gotta post the cONTEXT so I can continue it from there, so y'all are just gonna have to have all this content and this here read-more, oh nooooo~ 💖

Kon shifts back on the mattress and lays himself out on his stomach, propped up on his elbows with his head not quite in Tim's lap, but definitely down on eye-level with his cock. His mouth feels that eager, greedy way again and he bites his tongue just to keep himself from licking his lips. He wants to do this right. He wants Tim to like this. 

He wants to be good for him. 

Tim's hand is still resting on top of his head, and he threads his fingers through Kon's hair again. Picks up his camera again too and snaps a few shots. Kon resists a stupid urge to duck his head or squirm; smirks up at him instead, and then sticks his tongue out at him. 

Tim takes a picture of that, too. 

“I realize this is a stupid thing to say given the whole nature of your creation and the fact I know you’ve been cloned yourself, but Jesus, do you have any idea what you look like right now?” Bernard says, rubbing at his own jaw and watching Kon intently. Kon feels warm and heated under that look, but also has to stifle a laugh at the thought. 

“Can’t say Match and I have ever gotten along this well, so no, not really,” he says with a wry grin, wrapping a hand around Tim’s cock again and giving it a few long, slow strokes from root to tip. Tim hisses very, very quietly and takes another picture. Kon is immediately overwhelmed with options and has, actually, no idea what to do here. Or at least no idea where to start, anyway. Tim’s cock is a warm, perfect fit in his hand and he is having a very hard time not obsessing over just where and how else it might so perfectly fit, and he just wants to make him feel good, wants to make him like it, wants to make him happy–

He really, really wants that. 

“Well, there’s a mental image,” Bernard muses consideringly. Tim’s fingers curl and his nails dig into Kon’s scalp. Kon pushes into them without really thinking it through, and Tim hisses again. 

“Pet,” he says, his voice just a little bit strangled. Kon wants to make it crack. Kon wants to make him crack. He wants to know exactly how carried away Tim can get. 

Exactly how carried away Tim wants to get. 

“Tim,” he says, and licks his lips after all. It seems like such a dumb, cliche thing to do, but Tim and Bernard’s hearts both skip a beat watching him do it, and their pupils dilate in unison. 

It’s a bit of a confidence booster, to put it mildly. 

“Tim,” Kon repeats, leaning in just enough to nuzzle Tim’s cock before pressing a kiss against the side of it. It’s a lot more than just making out with them or jacking himself off to put on a show for them, and it feels like it should feel weird, but it just makes his gut twist and flip and heat. Tim letting him touch him this intimately, Tim letting him touch him at all . . . Tim letting him do all this is . . . 

Fuck, pink kryptonite really is Kon’s new favorite thing. 

“Told you I haven’t done this before, right?” he says even though he knows he did, then flicks the flat of his tongue out against the head of Tim’s cock. It twitches against his tongue, and he feels a rush of eager heat coiling low in his gut. “You gotta tell me how to make it good for you. How to be good for you.” 

“Fuck,” Tim mutters under his breath, his fingers nearly slipping off the button of his camera. 

“C’mon, you’re the boss, Robin,” Kon coaxes, and Tim exhales. 

“Holy shit,” Bernard says with a breathless laugh, shaking his head. “You are a menace, you know that?” 

“Kiss me again, pet,” Tim says, his voice gratifyingly rough and his fingers tightening in Kon’s hair. There’s no possible way he could yank it hard enough to hurt him, but his grip is still so careful. 

Kon feels several fucking ways about that fact. 

He presses another kiss to Tim’s cock, obviously, just above his own loosely-circled fingers, and then mouths up the length of it as he tightens his fingers around him again. Tim grunts, flattening his hand against his hair and sliding it around to cup the back of his head. 

“Good boy,” he says. “Use your tongue.”

Kon does; ducks his mouth again and then drags his tongue back up Tim’s cock, broad and flat. Tim grits his teeth and knocks his head back against the headboard–against Kon’s jacket–and Kon feels like there’s something buzzing under his skin, like there’s something he can’t quite contain inside himself. It’s . . . been a while, he thinks. Since he felt that so much, he means. Like, it’s been a while since he fucked anyone at all, much less anyone he liked this much, but it’s been a while since he felt it like this. 

Probably since he was with Cassie, come to think, which kinda makes sense.

He slides his tongue up and around the head of Tim’s cock and Tim chokes on another grunt. His hips don’t push up, but they do just barely shift. Kon feels even more of that buzzing warmth and kisses Tim’s cock again, wet and messy this time, and Tim curses under his breath and snaps a few more pictures. Kon winks up at him, not even trying not to smirk against his dick. Bernard laughs in delight and bites his knuckles. 

“Holy shit,” he repeats reverently. Kon kind of wants him to put a hand in his hair too, maybe, or at least touch him some way or another. 

“Good boy,” Tim repeats himself too, though in his case he has to do it through still-gritted teeth. Kon thinks about the fact he’s making Tim react this much, controlled and collected and always-prepared Tim, and the thought is one he really fucking likes. If he can affect Tim this much, if Tim likes what he’s doing this much . . . 

Yeah, he definitely likes that.

“You listen so well. And you’re so eager,” Tim murmurs, his tone low and approving and spine-melting as he strokes through Kon’s hair again even more spine-meltingly. “Show me how much of me you can take.”

Kon doesn’t hesitate; doesn’t even wait long enough to crack a dirty joke or make a flirty comment. He just opens his mouth and drops it down over Tim, around Tim, letting Tim inside him, and . . . 

And fuck, Kon thinks fleetingly, and then wraps his mouth fully around Tim’s cock and presses his tongue up against the underside as he slides down, and Tim’s hand tightens in his hair again, and–

Kon doesn’t really have a gag reflex, either because of the half-Kryptonian thing or because of the whole “weaned on a feeding tube” thing when he was initially being developed–who knows which–and he doesn’t really need to breathe all that much anymore either, so if Tim’s telling him to show him how much of him he can take . . . 

Well. The logical thing to do is to really commit, isn’t it? 

It feels–weird, a little, and kind of awkward and strange, but . . . 

“Tilt your head back a bit and relax your throat,” Bernard advises, reaching over to tap a couple of fingers gently against the corner of Kon’s jaw, and Kon just–does. Because again, not much of a gag reflex, and also he can sort of just use his TTK to ease the whole process, so–yeah. He tilts his head and relaxes his throat, and pulls Tim’s cock into his throat. 

It really does feel like a perfect fit, he thinks a little bit hazily, and then he swallows around him. Tim curses. Loudly. 

“Okay, so Kryptonians can deepthroat on the first try,” Bernard observes conversationally, his fingers curling against Kon’s jaw. “Good to know. Useful information. Also, oh my god.” 

“Good boy,” Tim says roughly, stroking a heavy hand through Kon’s hair, and Kon feels warm and buzzed and a little bit dazed, and just . . . rolls his tongue up tighter against the weight of his cock and swallows around him again. He should bob his head, he knows, but he kind of doesn’t want to. Just having Tim in his mouth like this, in his throat like this . . . “Fuck, pet. Look at me.” 

Kon flicks his eyes up to Tim’s face again, though they’re heavy and unfocused-feeling, and finds himself looking into his camera lens again. Tim takes a few pictures. 

Maybe a lot of pictures, actually, Kon’s vaguely aware, but he’s a little bit distracted right now. Just–Tim’s cock is a warm, solid weight in his mouth and on his tongue, hard and throbbing for him, and Tim told him he was good and told him to look at him and that’s . . . really all he’s worried about right now, yeah. 

He sucks, obviously. Swallows around him; rolls his tongue up and tries to swallow him down farther, even though his nose is already practically pressing into Tim’s stomach. It’s just a reflex, more than anything else. Bernard’s fingertips are still on his jaw. He likes them there. 

It’s a lot different from going down on a girl, obviously, but it gives him that same heady rush and feeling of usefulness he always gets from pleasing someone, which–well yeah, of course it does. The pink K is changing what he’s attracted to, not what he likes to do. So like, of course he’d still like giving oral and getting told he was doing a good job and all that stuff. It’d be weird if he didn’t. 

Kon can’t really focus on Tim’s face past the camera, but Tim’s free hand is still in his hair and he can feel him through his TTK–him and Bernard both–and hear both of their accelerated heartbeats and quickened breathing. Tim's are more-so than Bernard, but Bernard isn't currently getting his dick sucked, so Kon figures that’s understandable. 

He wants to touch him too, and considers reaching into his lap or just using his TTK to feel him up a bit, but he also wants to concentrate on this and make it as good as he can, do it as right as he can. He wants Tim to really, really love this. To think he’s doing well. To be pleased with and proud of him. 

If he can make this good for Tim, be good for Tim–

Kon really wants to do that. 

He makes himself bob his head; sucks tightly and doesn’t even pretend not to be using his TTK too, mimicking the same licking he’s already doing with a phantom tongue working in counterpoint to his own, and he cups and rolls Tim’s balls in his hand and lets another little tendril of TTK press up behind them and rub in along his taint. 

Tim curses. 

“That into it already, babe?” Bernard teases, sounding amused. Kon glances towards him a little muzzily and feels even warmer at the sight of the heated look on his face, but for obvious reasons keeps most of his attention on what he’s doing to Tim. 

What he’s doing for Tim, more like. 

“TTK,” Tim grits out, his voice a little strangled and fingers twisting just a little bit tighter in Kon’s hair. 

“Oh,” Bernard says, his eyes widening. “Ohhhhh. Well, okay, that’s incredibly distracting. Jesus.”

“You're doing so good for your first time, pet,” Tim says, tight and tender, and Kon feels that heady rush again and lets out a stifled moan around his cock. Tim hisses, his hips twitching against the mattress, but the fingers he has twisted tight in Kon's hair stay careful. Stay gentle. 

Kon would be perfectly fine with Tim yanking his hair as hard as he wants right now, but honestly, the fact he's keeping the totally unnecessary promise of being gentle with him is really doing it for him.

Like. Really. 

He moans again; swallows Tim back down as far as he can and flexes his tongue and his TTK around him, and Tim makes a choked noise in the back of his throat and drags his fingers through his hair very, very gently. Kon is pretty sure he'd let Tim hold a kryptonite razor to his throat at this point in their lives and just assume if he decided to slash it, it was for the best. 

So that's . . . definitely a way to feel about the guy whose dick is currently down his throat. 

Fuck. 

Kon squirms, just a little, and presses his hips down into the sheets as his own dick decides it's getting a bit more interested in the current proceedings. His refractory period is quick enough that he's surprised it took it this long to, frankly, because the whole experience of having Tim like this is more than a little overwhelming. 

“So good, pet,” Tim grunts, and Kon's dick is definitely interested in that. “Don't stop. You look so pretty like this.” 

“I feel like you could go with a much stronger descriptor than ‘pretty’ here,” Bernard says, trailing his fingers down under Kon's jaw and pressing his thumb in against the stretched-open corner of his mouth. “I don't know, ‘mind-meltingly hot’ or ‘fucking gorgeous’. ‘Probably illegal in half the sector and should be if you're not’, maybe.” 

“Perfect,” Tim says, which is stronger enough that Kon nearly chokes before the bastard starts elaborating. “Always just what I need. Always so good for me. Always my boy. I can trust you with anything.” 

Kon doesn't moan around him this time; he whines. Tim strokes his hair back off his face and he's vaguely aware of the camera shutter going off, or maybe having been going off this whole time, but all he can actually think about or do is suck Tim off. He digs his fingers into Tim's thighs and swallows around his cock and makes more near-pleading whining noises, and doesn't even care if it makes him sound stupid. Tim said he was doing good. Tim said he was perfect. 

Yeah, no, Kon really doesn't give a fuck about anything else right now. 

He really does wish they could've skipped the condom, though. The idea of Tim very literally coming in his mouth is–is a lot. And Tim said he wanted him to taste him. 

Kon would absolutely do that for him, if it weren't like, a health issue or whatever. 

His jaw doesn't ache, because he's too Kryptonian for that, and his mouth isn't going to look like he's been sucking cock because again, he's too Kryptonian for that. But they both feel used and sensitive in a new and unfamiliar way, and the tight slide of Tim’s cock along his tongue is weirdly hypnotic, and the hands they both have in his hair and on his jaw make him feel restless and eager and needy, and everything Tim says just sounds so, so good right now. 

Kon wants him to keep talking as bad as he thinks he’s ever wanted anything in bed, so he puts in the fucking effort and does his best imitation of all the best blowjobs of his life; doesn’t hesitate or hold back or shy away, goes in hard and puts in the work, doesn’t half-ass any of it. 

Lets himself be as eager as he feels. 

But also takes his time, just a little, and savors. 

“Fuck,” Tim chokes, and his head hits the headboard hard. His cock twitches in Kon’s mouth and gets even harder, and Kon feels–feels–“Good boy.” 

Like that, yeah. He feels like a good boy. 

Like Tim’s good boy, specifically. 

That is actually doing even more for him than it usually would be. Like–Cassie-levels of “doing it for him”, again. Which still makes sense, obviously, but is just a lot. Kon should’ve expected it, probably, just . . .

“Oh, pet,” Tim breathes out roughly, petting his hair so gently, and Kon stops caring about anything else. Tim’s petting his hair and letting him touch him and putting up with him crashing his weekend, and that’s all that Kon gives a fuck about right now. 

That and the way Bernard keeps tracing his fingers up his jaw and down his throat, anyway. 

“You are an unfairly quick learner,” Bernard says, all delighted admiration and approval, and Kon tries to figure out if he can swallow Tim down any farther. Obviously no, because he’s already got every inch of him it’s possible to in his mouth and throat, but he really tries. Tim curses a few more times. Kon . . . 

Kon doesn’t quite do it on purpose, but his TTK starts to sort of . . . wander, a little. Or–reach out a little, more like, and wrap itself around Tim and Bernard both and just sort of . . . hold on, maybe. 

“Oh,” Bernard says, sounding breathless, and digs his nails in against Kon’s impenetrable skin. Kon can feel every inch of him; every inch of him and Tim both. “You really are a flirt, huh. And a real multi-tasker, too.” 

Kon would do something to live up to the “flirt” rep, maybe, but it is just so much more important to suck Tim’s cock right now. 

Like much, much more important. 

He wonders how long Tim’s going to let him do this. Wonders how long he’s going to last, wonders if he likes it as much as he wants him to, wonders if–

Tim strokes the hand in his hair down the side of his face to cup his jaw and snaps another picture or five. Kon feels warm and heavy and electric. Tim likes it. Tim likes him. Tim’s petting him and taking pictures and–and he’s–

“Such a good boy for me,” Tim says, his voice a low, heated rasp, and Kon feels the kind of buzzing bliss he usually only gets when he’s way deep into a scene with somebody who’s really, really put the work in. Cassie got him there this easy, the handful of times they’d tried this kind of play, but . . . “So sweet. So obedient. Just what I want you to be.” 

Kon definitely whines around Tim’s cock again, and definitely does his best to live up to that compliment. He’s dizzy and warm and his mouth is too full to talk past and his throat is too full to talk past, and Tim’s cupping his jaw and taking pictures of him and Bernard is drawing his fingers along the other side of his face and pressing the pad of his thumb in against his lower lip. It’s wet and slick with spit and Kon wishes it were wet and slick with Tim. Wishes Bernard were touching him more. Wishes Tim would fuck his mouth as gently as he’s petting his face right now. 

“Just perfect,” Tim murmurs, and Kon swallows around his dick and grinds his own down into the mattress without really meaning to, because how could he ever listen to Tim talking to him like this and not do that? He wants touched more. He wants back between the two of them. He wants–

He grinds his hips down again, swallows Tim down again with a lingering shudder, and Tim–pauses.

“Pet,” he asks very, very carefully, his voice still a low rasp. “Are you . . . getting off on doing this?” 

It’s not really a question Kon understands, because of course he’s doing that. Obviously he is. But he’s being good for Tim, being good for Tim is all he wants to do, so he just purrs in reply and bobs his head and works his mouth around him until Tim’s hand tightens against his jaw and his heartbeat is doing things Kon’s never heard it do before. 

“Babe, I love you, but you are asking questions with very obvious answers right now,” Bernard says wryly. 

“Pet,” Tim says tightly, back to breathing like the doors are gonna blow in and smoothing a hand back through Kon’s hair again. It feels so, so good. “Can you come like this for me? For my cock in your mouth like this?” 

Kon definitely can. 

And it’s not going to be much longer ‘til he definitely does, the way he feels right now. 

Kon sucks harder, swallows tighter, works his mouth more and uses his TTK to help it out, and Tim hisses under his breath and still doesn’t yank his hair. Kon likes that so much. 

Likes him so much. 

He can’t keep himself from grinding his hips down into the sheets, it feels like, but Tim asked him if he could get off like this, so it’s not like he’s trying to stop or be patient. Not like he’s trying to hold anything back or behave. Tim wants him to do it, right? Wants him to get off like this. For this. So he’s–behaving, by doing this. 

Being good by doing this. 

Kon makes a noise. A tight, strangled one that he doesn’t quite know how to define. Tim trails his fingers along his temple and then back down to his jaw, soft and gentle, and this time Kon whimpers. He digs his fingers into Tim’s thighs again; drags them down and swallows him down. Tim curses. His camera goes off, though the lens isn’t aimed as carefully as before. Kon whimpers again and wants Tim to yank his hair, fuck his mouth, come in his mouth; use him like a thing and treat him however he wants and tell him how good he is for it. 

If he’s a pet or an animal or just some stupid idiot humping the sheets while Tim and Bernard pet him and Tim’s cock fills up his mouth and throat–if he’s good, a good boy, Tim’s good boy–if he’s doing what Tim wants him to be doing–

If Tim is still, still, still being so gentle, just like he promised . . . 

Well–then Kon is going to absolutely lose his fucking mind and melt into this fucking mattress, is what’s going to happen here. 

But not before he makes Tim come. 

He wants to make Tim come. He wants to see what he looks like after he does; wants to hear how he sounds, find out what he’ll do and say and–

“I need you to know, I am going to go actually insane before we’re done here,” Bernard informs Tim, shifting into his side and pressing a kiss in behind his ear as he curls his fingers in behind Kon’s ear. Kon feels weirdly, weirdly obsessed with that particular little parallel. “Like I’m feeling about a hop, skip, and a jump away from getting a gimmick and going full rogue here, that’s what’s happening in my head right now.” 

“The only reason I haven’t lost my mind yet is because we had to use condoms,” Tim says very, very evenly. 

“Really?” Bernard asks, cocking an eyebrow at him. “Because I’d have thought having to use condoms while thinking about how your boy didn’t want to would’ve shoved you right over the edge there, babe.” 

“. . . ngh,” Tim mutters, tightening his grip in Kon’s hair as Kon shudders. 

“Seriously,” Bernard says, biting his lip for a moment. “Like, the fact that if we were all less responsible people he’d be letting you come in him is really making me–” 

“Ngh,” Tim says, screwing his eyes shut, and Kon thinks about how that might feel, about the idea of Tim coming in his mouth or maybe–

He muffles a heated groan around Tim’s cock, and Tim hisses through his teeth and knocks his head back against the headboard again. Back against Kon’s jacket again. 

Kon really wants to ask him to wear it for a little while, and not because of any practical reasons like keeping the pink kryptonite in its pocket in close and doing its radioactive magic or anything like that. 

“Just saying,” Bernard says, and Kon wants to feel him up and kinda wishes he could get both their cocks in his mouth right now or maybe–maybe–

If he'd waited, maybe they would've been up for trying out a spitroast kind of setup. Maybe they'll be up for trying that out later. Maybe–

Fuck, he wants more. Wants everything they've both got. 

If he does this good enough, maybe they’ll give it to him. 

“You look so good like this. I wish I could see my come on your face,” Tim murmurs lowly, trailing his fingers along the arc of Kon's cheekbone. “Wish I could make you drip with it.” 

Kon and his total lack of gag reflex somehow actually choke. Tim's eyes flare. 

“Don’t hurt yourself, pet,” Tim says as he strokes Kon’s face again, all tender and gentle like that’s actually something Kon could ever do this easily. It makes him feel–weird. Several kinds of weird. 

It makes him feel like something that maybe could get hurt that easily, or maybe just something Tim doesn’t want to risk getting hurt no matter what, which is . . . a weird way to feel, honestly. 

But he doesn’t–mind it, or anything. Doesn’t mind feeling like something that Tim wants to be careful with, something he wants to make sure not to break; not to hurt. 

Yeah. No, he definitely doesn’t mind that at all. 

“Fuck, you look good like this,” Bernard mutters. “I am definitely going to lose my mind and die over this, I need a rogue gimmick, like, yesterday. What’s one nobody’s done yet, I don’t wanna be derivative or whatever.” 

“Good luck finding that,” Tim snorts breathlessly, shaking his head. His thumb slides back along the arch of Kon’s cheekbone and it’s such a little touch, but it feels so–so sweet, for lack of a better word. Feels like Tim’s still being so careful.

Makes Kon feel like . . . 

He grabs Tim’s hips and tugs hopefully at them, not sure if he wants the other to fuck his mouth or just wants to make sure he isn’t going to pull back or pull away. He bobs his head faster and swallows around his cock again and again, and Tim hisses sharp little curses under his breath, and Kon can’t help grinding his own cock down harder into the mattress. 

“Fuck,” Bernard muses, pressing the pad of his thumb in against the corner of Kon’s stretched-open mouth again. “You’re really into this, huh.” 

“That was a question?” Tim huffs, and Kon feels warm and good and warm. 

“I was talking to Kon, babe,” Bernard says, and Tim hisses through his teeth and covers his face with a hand. “At this rate I think he’s gonna come before you do.” 

He might be right, the way Kon feels right now. He doesn’t know if he even needs to worry about his cock to get himself off, if Tim’s gonna keep acting like this about everything. 

“Pet,” Tim rasps, sliding a hand over the back of Kon’s neck and splaying his fingers across it. “Do you want to come like this? Do you like it?”

Kon would actually have to pull back to say anything in answer to that question, obviously, but he really doesn’t want to. He makes the most eager, encouraging noise he can figure out how to with his mouth full and swallows Tim down to the root and swallows around him, and Tim chokes roughly and knocks his head back against the headboard again. 

Kon still can’t get over the fact that Tim doing that means he’s leaning back against his jacket. 

Tim’s hips roll up into his mouth, stuttering and barely-controlled, but still gentle. Still careful. Still–

Tim’s fingers curl in Kon’s hair, and Kon’s whole fucking brain shorts out and he comes into the sheets with a choked, gasping moan, and has no idea why having Tim’s cock filling up his mouth for it feels so good. It all feels so good, though, and he doesn’t really . . . he’s not . . . 

“Shit, Kon, did you just–” Bernard starts while Kon’s still shuddering his way through it and kind of forgetting how to think, sounding delighted, and– 

“Fuck!” Tim groans, and comes too. 

Comes in Kon’s mouth. Because of him. Because of how he’s touching him and how he’s using his mouth and how he’s being good for him. 

Kon whines around his mouthful of cock and lets Tim ride out his orgasm completely before he lets his cock slip out of his throat and wipes the spit off his face. Tim is panting. 

Kon . . . nuzzles him. 

His dick, he means. He nuzzles that. 

“Jesus fucking fuck, Kon, I . . .” Tim trails off with a groan, putting a hand over his eyes. Bernard was very right about how good he looks after coming. Like, if anything, he undersold it. Kon presses a careful little kiss against the root of Tim’s softening cock before nuzzling it again, feeling blurry and buzzed and so, so good. He doesn’t want to stop. He wants to make Tim come until the other kicks him off, and then he wants to see if making Bernard come will feel even half this good.

He bets he could make sure it would, he thinks, and licks his lips. 

Tim groans. 

“Maybe I should’ve told Supergirl to expect you next Monday,” Bernard says, openly staring. Kon still feels too buzzed to properly preen under the attention, but it makes him feel warm anyway. 

“Mmmkay,” he hums, feeling just a little . . . floaty, maybe. Like, in a good way, just . . . floaty, yeah. “Whenever y'want. Just keep me 'til y'get bored or whatever.” 

“I dunno, dude, you already said you weren't the marrying kind,” Bernard says wryly, reaching out to pet his hair again. 

Kon feels warm. 

“Mmmmm, alright, then just tell me when you need that party favor for your bachelor party, 'kay?” he murmurs, nuzzling into Bernard’s hand with a little shiver before returning his attention to Tim’s cock. “Bet Superman'll gimme pink K for that.” 

“Ngh,” Tim says.

Kon’s kinda starting to like that sound, he thinks. 

He kisses the base of Tim’s cock again, then lifts his head to drag his tongue over the tip, where his come is trapped inside the condom. Wonders what Tim’s refractory period is like. Wonders if–

“Stop,” Tim rasps, and Kon would feel disappointed, but being good for Tim is just as good as getting him off. “Just–c’mere, pet. Head in my lap, and roll over on your back.” 

Kon doesn’t know why Tim wants him to do that, but he’s not really worried about it. Tim always has the best ideas, after all. So he shifts up a bit as Tim strips off the condom and tosses it before tucking his cock away again, which seems like a shame, and then Kon rolls over and ends up stretched out across the bed with his head in Tim’s lap, just like he asked. Tim wraps his arms around him, which is nice, and smoothes his hands down his chest. 

“Color?” Tim asks. Kon doesn’t understand what he’s–oh, right. 

“Green,” he hums contentedly, pressing up into Tim’s hands and tipping his head back against Tim’s stomach. Tim sighs. He sounds a little relieved, for some reason. Kon’s not sure why. There’s no way he’d be anything but green right now. 

“Good,” Tim says. “Bernard, can you grab the–oh, thanks. Pet, Bernard’s going to clean you up a little, alright?” 

Kon wonders what Tim wanted, but then Bernard’s leaning over him and it doesn’t seem important anymore, so he just hums again and lets his eyes half-close as he hears a little ripping sound and then Bernard is running a wet wipe over the mess of come he got all over himself.

He’d be embarrassed that he wasn’t handling his own mess, maybe, but it feels nice. He was kind of sticky, he guesses, especially after coming in the sheets while grinding in them. So . . . the bed’s also kind of sticky, he guesses. And he’s pretty sure he’s still at least halfway lying in his own come, considering. 

He doesn’t really care. Tim’s hands are on his chest and Bernard’s being nice enough to clean him up and he just feels warm and good and like he’s being good and . . . and it’s nice. Really nice. 

So yeah, he doesn’t care. 

Actually, he doesn’t care about much of anything right now, except for how nice this is. 

“Good boy,” Tim says, smoothing one of his hands up Kon’s chest and throat and then stroking his hair again. Kon feels even nicer, and hums softly in response. He assumes Tim wants a response, anyway. Probably. Maybe. “How do you feel, pet?” 

“M’good,” Kon sighs contentedly, though he only bothers with saying anything at all because he wants to be good for him. It feels really good and really nice and Tim is just . . . he really likes this. So much. 

He never gets treated this nice. Or at least, hasn’t in a really long time. 

Well . . . he hasn’t been dating much, he guesses, so . . . like really, he’s pretty sure the last time he went out with anybody was before Tim and Bernard even started dating, so . . .

. . . actually, huh. It was, wasn’t it.

Kon frowns, very briefly, and thinks . . . did he actually . . . stop dating people right when Tim got a boyfriend? Like . . . what, as an actual triggering event? Why would he . . . ? 

“I cannot believe how good you are at being good for me,” Tim mutters, stroking his hair again, and Kon forgets what he was thinking about and tips his head back again to peer up at him as Bernard tosses out the used wet wipe with a snigger. “Shut up, Bernard, you don’t know how many goddamn problems this could’ve solved for Young Justice back in the day. You have no idea.” 

“Oh, could it have, babe?” Bernard asks, and cackles. Tim scowls at him. Kon . . . Kon has some slightly inappropriate thoughts about the idea of Tim ordering him around in the Robin suit in possibly inappropriate ways and places and times back in the day and . . . and, uh . . .

“Yeah, guess that would’ve been a good way to shut me up when I got too mouthy, huh?” he tries to joke, feeling a little–weird, maybe, and Tim’s fingers curl gently behind his ears. 

“I was more thinking the team would've had a mutually enjoyable way to reward you for good behavior,” he replies matter-of-factly. 

“. . . oh,” Kon manages, and feels his face burn. And then he has a lot more thoughts that are a lot more inappropriate about . . . about maybe just . . . about what that might’ve been like, maybe, if he’d been good and earned a reward for “good behavior” and then Tim had–Robin, because they hadn’t even known his name then, actually–and then Robin had just . . . let him be good for everybody else too, maybe. Like, they’d had enough of those team sleepovers, they could’ve just . . .

He’d have been so good, he thinks. He’d have taken care of all the girls just how they wanted and done anything Robin told him to and–well, maybe it would’ve been a little weird with Bart, he’s not sure how that would’ve worked, but Robin could’ve just told him what to do, again, and . . . 

Like–he could’ve, that’s all. 

Kon’s pretty sure he could’ve done that without the pink kryptonite, if he was just, like–doing what Robin told him to do for Cissie or Cassie or “Suzie”. Like . . . even if it might’ve been a little weird and he couldn’t have gotten to touch him, that would’ve been . . . 

That’s just–a thought, kind of.

Well, he guesses his next sex dream’s gonna involve getting to play the starring role in a team gangbang. Good to know, he guesses. 

Or mortifying, maybe. But . . . 

“Real missed opportunity, there,” Tim says, and Kon bites his lip to repress the urge to squirm. He thinks about the idea of Robin telling him how to kiss Suzie or go down on Cissie or fuck Cassie, and it’s . . . 

Fuck, it’s a thought, isn’t it. 

He wonders if Robin would’ve told him what to do for Bart, too. Like–if that would’ve been a thing, if it’d ever come up. He wonders how that would’ve felt. Just . . . doing whatever Robin told him to, pink kryptonite or not, and . . . 

That is a very weird thought, Kon recognizes, and then Bernard leans forward a little and he remembers–shit, Bernard’s been waiting all this time, he needs to–

Tim strokes a hand through his hair, and Kon–hesitates. Settles, slowly. Bernard grins at Tim, and Tim smiles back at him. Kon watches them. 

He likes how they look at each other. He’s never gotten to see it, except in the sense of seeing Tim smile at his phone sometimes when he’s texting Bernard. Finally seeing Bernard’s half of the equation is . . . affecting, kind of. 

And really nice.

Tim deserves to get a grin like that directed at him, so–yeah. Definitely nice, Kon thinks, and settles a little more. 

“Pet,” Tim murmurs, his voice all soft and gentle as he strokes Kon’s collarbones. “Do you want to stay in my lap like this while Bernard gets you ready for our cocks? Does that sound nice?” 

Kon nearly bites his tongue. 

“Yeah,” he manages to croak, reaching up to wrap his hands around Tim’s wrists and half-reflexively spreading his thighs as he does. “I–yeah. That sounds–yeah, I wanna do that.” 

He really wants to do that, actually. 

“Fuck,” Tim and Bernard mutter in unison. Kon would laugh, but the way they both say it is just really, really fucking flattering.

[obstinaterixatrix]

THE GLIMM*R ZINE IS AVAILABLE FOR DIGITAL DOWNLOAD TO BACKERS AND IT'S SO GOOD IT'S SOOOOOOOOO GOOD I think it has a good mix of requited/unrequited, mundane/fantasy, literal/figurative (though dreams inherently skew more figurative than literal) (maybe more... a good balance between a 'concrete' implementation of 'dream' in the sleep sense, and 'abstract' implementation of 'dream' as the wish/goal sense?)

all the artists did a great job, I think every single story was complete and satisfying and competently executed (though obviously some of them hit my biases more than others). I can think of positive and unique things to say about each story. so I will.

Midnight Smack by Anna Chen Campbell: The art style is fun and distinct and very expressive, I loved the role reversal of a fantastical creature being in the position of going What The Fuck. Very solid meet-cute!

Dear Nina by Kristina Luu: The story is told through the perspective character reminiscing of the past, which means a nice intimate first(/second) person narration. I really liked the mood whiplash of wistful longing and seething cynicism, the atmosphere is top-notch.

Good Morning, Rose by Rowan Maccoll: I love the dream vibes in this one--it really captures that experience of going along with different scenes that aren't supposed to cohere, disjointed in a way that works for the story. I love how the... not-really-negative space is used during the true form reveal, very atmospheric.

R.E.M. by Jona Li: It's one of the heavier stories because [spoilers] the narrative centers suicidal ideation/suicide attempt, and I think the artist does a good job with emotional nuance; I also like that there's ambiguity whether the subject of the dream is their real self, or a projection of the dreamer. The contrast between hard/soft textures is super arresting.

Merderous by Gabrielle Kari: The first of three illustrations! Alas, the two-page spread is broken up in pdf format... I can't wait to get my physical copy so I can see it in its fully glory... it's got what's clearly an intricate narrative with no context or explanation, so you get to puzzle out your own interpretation if you want, which I liked.

Eternal Waltz by Adeline Kon: EXTREMELY heated drama between women. It has resentment, it has longing, it has separation and bitter reunions, it has violence, and it has a butch woman who's definitely an arrogant fuckboy. I want fifty more comics just like this.

Derailed! by Kimberly Wang: I'm very unfairly biased towards this comic because I've been following this artist for a while and I Love Their Work. Great composition, great expressions, great energy, just all around great stuff (there's also an interview about Of Thunder And Lightning in this zine!). Anyway, they described this comic as "type A hobonichi girlie meets girl who's perpetually late and has no impulse control, who survives", it's very funny and very charming and I knew I'd love it from the very first preview. and I was right. I want fifty more comics of this duo.

The Visitor by Yuchen H: The second illustration, which is also the cover of the zine. The art looks so soft and edible, really captures a dreamy atmosphere. I want to bury my face in those feathers. The pain (and longing...?) for someone ignorant to the impact of their own actions... solid vibes.

One Last Dream by Laura Rovinsky and Ez Carol: The protagonist is an old woman in hospice care, which really grabbed my interest. Despite the heavy premise, it's super sweet and cute and Filled With Joy, and there were a lot of elements I liked (the main character being active in working with the love interest, the main character's waking life being enhanced by the dream, etc). I would love to see more old women protagonists!

Step By Step by Jess Fleming: I liked the maze setup--the artist did cool stuff like the blueprint-to-completed-gardens page, and the atmosphere's very... I think liminal fits best. Also, the impossible status divide between a groundskeeper and a noblewoman who's in an arranged marriage to end a feud, AND the emotional implications of constructing the maze PLUS having to guide the noblewoman to her betrothed? Very good setup for The Longing

Love Everlasting by Ellen Mei: The third and final illustration. VERY clear narrative and VERY heated drama. I love an unethical scientist and I love how Very Definitely Unhappy the android looks about the situation. Sooo tasty and unhinged, nobody's getting out of this unscathed.

anyway, those are my thoughts, must-read for yuri enthusiasts, if you didn't get the chance to back the kickstarter definitely pick up a copy once it's for sale. I love it.

[iambatmuppet]

i'm somewhat new to (sharing my) writing but here's an excerpt from one of my newest wips!

CONTEXT: this is set in the Young Justice Comic (New Earth/Pre-52) universe, though RR’s costume is from the new 52 bc no cowl duh!! featuring BAMF Tim Drake AKA Red Robin, and also BAMF super sweet boyfriend Kon

-----

Red Robin stands alone, suit all but shredded and hanging off of him, surrounded by bodies. The grainy camera feed combined with the dim lighting of the cage isn’t enough to see the look on his face but the blood running in rivets down from his forehead is obvious; he doesn’t even flinch as it drips into his eyes, a peek of his tongue momentarily flicking some more of the red liquid from his lips.

Shit.

They all watch as his chest heaves, head bowed as blood streams onto the floor beneath him. Kon ignores the echoing sounds of the loud keycaps in favour of staring at Rob's face.

“Got another angle!” 

The view switches, focused on Tim’s side profile as he stares blankly ahead, lips pressed firmly together and jaw clenched. The blood on his forehead is seeping from a slash above his eyebrow, and more is coming from a broken nose and a split lip, although his nose has obviously been set so it must not be from this fight.

There’s a tinny noise in the background, like from a low-quality speaker, but even with his hearing it’s unintelligible. Through his mangled domino, Tim’s eyes harden as he looks up, glaring out into the crowd. His mouth starts moving, tendons in his neck flexing as if he’s yelling but Kon can’t hear anything outside of just a faint murmur.

“What’s with the sound?” Dick clacks away, murmuring to himself, but nothing comes of it. He relays that the BatComputer’s audio features are all fully functional, so the issue isn’t something to be resolved on their end. 

Kon wants to scream, to throw something, but he knows with his anger where it is right now, it isn’t safe to do anything surrounded by humans like he is, bat-clad heroes or not.

He pushes off the desk where he was hunched over a screen – watching pain flicker across Tim’s face before he closes himself off, eyes cold – and stalks across the room, bracing a hand on the wall, the cool stone distracting him from the current situation. 

He can’t help but attempt to listen in for Tim’s heartbeat again and again, but there’s nothing; no steady thumps, no flighty jumps in fear, nothing. It’s like the volume dial has been turned all the way down.

“Kon? You should see this.” 

He turns back towards the screens and freezes. Tim is flying across the ring, all spinning kicks and hard punches before he takes down his opponent with a sweeping throw – a move that Artemis was still trying to successfully replicate whenever they sparred at the Justice Cave – and launches him into the chain-link fencing that separates the fighters from the audience. 

He … Kon knew that Rob was an amazing fighter, deft and dexterous, all concussive kicks and fast jabs when faced with combat sans his trusty bō, but this … Kon had never seen him fight like this, like there was no one watching over his shoulder, in his ear, critiquing his every move. Like he was finally out of his own head and just letting go, trusting in his instincts; like it was as easy as breathing.

From the current angle spanning the ring, they sit silent as Tim creeps forward, keeping an eye on the man crumpled on the ground for movement, swiftly knocking him out with a hard punch to the nose when he stirs. He looks relaxed, casual as if he didn’t just dominate a fight against a man thrice his size but the tension in his jaw, straining the muscles in his neck and shoulders, speaks for itself.

Kon wishes his x-ray vision worked through cameras because the way Rob favours his right side, both torso and arm, means there’s obviously an underlying injury – one he can’t fully see, minus the select few showing through the tears in Tim’s suit. 

His previously-dislocated shoulder, only a month healed, must be acting up from however long he’s been forced to fight; he’s been missing for 4 days, not including the half-day where no one had realized he was even missing yet, and Kon can only guess how … busy they’ve kept him, based on the cuts and bruises in various stages of healing.

Let me know what you think!!! :D

[ectonurites]

Hey I noticed you saying you weren’t a Geoff Johns fan, and I was wondering why? I love his Flash, GL, and Justice League work, amongst others although I haven’t read his Teen Titans, and I’d defer to you as the expert on the core four anyway. So I was wondering, is that run just bad or is it something about his writing as a whole? Obviously not an issue you dislike Johns, just curious why.

AH YES okay so. Yeah, my problem is more specifically about his Teen Titans run rather than necessarily Johns as a writer in general. (Which I can understand not being 100% clear from the context of what I recently said. My point was primarily 'it's frustrating talking about this run with a Johns fan who blindly defends that run's characterization of the core four despite how drastically Johns had altered things')

Frankly, I don't even think I've read all that much of his work to even try to make super general comments/form general opinions on him as a writer. His Teen Titans run often incites a fiery rage within me if I try to think about it too hard/don't just joke about the funny (not intentionally funny, just turns out that way funny) parts, I was Not a fan of Three Jokers after the first issue, I did enjoy Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E., I do really enjoy Superboy: Boy of Steel, and Infinite Crisis was like, interesting. Those are the main things that come to mind that I've read from him, so like, there's definitely varying opinions there—it's not all negative. Just the negative feelings are Strong when they occur.

Anyways, to TLDR why Geoff Johns Teen Titans bugs the shit out of me: it just shows a blatant disrespect for the history and prior characterization of the Core Four! It's not even that I think the book is entirely bad, there are plenty of elements of plots I like (though it's a lot of... 'cool idea, i do not like this execution') and it in general does have some good moments... BUT I think that time where within a three day period I did a full read through of Young Justice (1998) -> Graduation Day -> Teen Titans (2003) thus within a pretty short period of time consumed about 13 years of content that pretty consistently featured at least some combination of Tim, Kon, Cassie and Bart... well it was just eye opening and showed how little care was put into many choices made with how those guys would get portrayed when they transitioned between teams.

Now, at this present point in time, it actually has been a while since I've given Teen Titans Vol. 3 (or even just Johns' run of it, so #1-50 barring a few issues with guest writers) a full reread, so I'm maybe not in the best position to articulate all my thoughts on this subject. Though I did find this post from pretty freshly after I'd done that big mega reread talking about my frustrations in how Cassie was handled.

Just seriously, look how he massacred/yassified my girl….

(Teen Titans Vol. 3 #25)

Now, one thing about me though, is that when I approach these books, even when I have problems with them I don't like to ignore them (the ‘reject the canon you don’t like’ approach to fandom simply does not work for me personally outside of situations where canon literally has conflicting info you need to ignore some of to try to reconcile things OR things get rewritten over like by reboots/retcons).

I like to try to find ways to rationalize/make sense of the things that occur, I try to put pieces together and still find something enjoyable out of it even if it’s far from what the author(s) intended. That’s how I manage to feel as negative as I do about TT Vol. 3 while then also enjoying Boy of Steel—because many of my problems with TT Vol. 3’s approach to Kon come from how changes with him were made and handled… but when I approach Boy of Steel accepting that those changes happened and taking that story in not just still being mad about the previous stuff, I do really like it. I contain multitudes.

Anyways I rambled far more than you probably needed me to, but uhhhh. yeah!

[agentgrange]

What is some fiction outside of the mythos or DG that you look to for inspiration?

Excellent, fun question. I've been on a narrowboat trip through the countryside and hadn't had a lot of time to get my thoughts out so this is a great way to get back in the headspace actually. This isn't going to be the most coherent answer in the world but off the top of my head here's some ideas and recommendations in no particular order.

Philip K Dick-- I've talked about his work a bit before, less because of his works themselves (there's a lot there that's problematic and can be cut) and more because he really channels that bridge between Lovecraft's historic paranoia and a modern contemporary setting

Basically any works by Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison-- I feel like I don't need to say a lot about these authors, they really are the triarchy that serve as the prime example of how to distill complex occult principles into media. They really paved the way for how to take an abstract idea and shape it into fiction as a way to sort of upload an idea into another person's brain.

Rawhead Rex by Clive Barker and Les Edwards-- this graphic novel really was my gateway into horror as something more complex than the slasher / torture porn that was en vogue when I was growing up which had previously turned me off of the genre.

Strangehaven by Gary Spencer Millidge-- beautiful and inspiring labor of love about a small town subject to extraordinary circumstances

Mononoke & Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales-- Beautiful stories that give a window into how another culture expresses the same ideas as a lot of the works above

Satoshi Kon's movies to me really tap into the same energy as Philip K Dick but without a lot of the ugliness and much more beauty. Perfect Blue and Tokyo Godfathers are my two favorites to the point that I honestly get emotional just thinking about them.

I don't need to tell you about Akira, but I will absolutely recommend you don't discount it's more low brow contemporaries like Urotsukidoji and Wicked City for some fucked up exploitation anime.

Possession (1981) is genuinely my all time favorite work of surrealist horror and a cornerstone for a lot of my ideas

Society (1989) what if Possession was even more fucked up & grind house but also silly? :3c

Obviously X-Files, Twin Peaks, and True Detective are giant influences but I'd like to recommend a fourth "weird cop" show-- FX's Fargo. The original movie was already a true crime classic but the show really takes it to 11. Season 2 is probably my favorite for reasons that will be apparent for anyone who's watched it.

Lastly the bulk of media I regularly consume is usually actually non-fiction. History, particularly US history, is fucked up and clown shoes enough that it has all the inspiration you might need if you just have a good source that can present it as an interesting narrative. Last Podcast on the Left is a good gateway into this but there's plenty of other more "serious" sources that can still be just as entertaining like the podcast Blowback. Once you're able to put history into a narrative you can be entertained by and feel invested in it becomes a lot more interesting to read books from authoritative sources that help feed into that interest because you have an emotional connection to it instead of it just being a series of context-less names and dates.

[arunneronthird]

Hi, this is the Bruce and Jason anon again and you're completely right! Tim and Kon's situation is very different from Bruce and Jason's because Tim was like...literally trying to engineer a perfect replacement for someone he lost ON PURPOSE. Which is just completely fucking crazy from start to end. Especially when Kon, as a clone himself, struggled in the past with the idea of being created in a lab explicity to perfectly replace another person, then ending up not being identical/perfect enough to do that and having to learn to become his own person instead, not just superman 2.0. Like Tim was actually insane to still try and clone him while actively KNOWING all of this about his best friend and still deciding to go ahead and become the cadmus/lex luthor in this poor clone's story.

Also with the benefit of being able to actually know what happened while Jason was dead, how Bruce grieved, the whole messy process of how Tim actually became Robin, etc. through the comics, I agree that Bruce wasn't necessarily wrong. What I was mainly talking about was Jason coming back from the dead without any knowledge of how much of a wreck Bruce was when he was gone and seeing the product of that grief without any of the context.

Like Jason checks back in on his dad after maybe a year or two (idk comic timelines) and there is just a full ass new child (around the age jason was when he died no less) living in Jason's house, swinging round Gotham in Jason's old suit colours using Jason's vigilante name (the suit he died in, the name that he died for). He even LOOKS like Jason with his black hair a blue eyes. And because of the severe lack of context Talia provides, from the outside it's exactly as if Jason has been replaced, not grieved. Like when TV shows recast one of their main actors and the story continues on without stopping to acknowledge that anything is out of the ordinary. As if this new person has been here the entire time and the old one never existed at all.

Jason was also having problems with Bruce before he died so seeing this shiny new Robin take his place (and actually be good at it) is just so heartbreaking. Again, without knowing anything about Bruce and Tim's relationship, to Jason it'd seem like Bruce just got a shiny new sidekick that was Robin in all the ways B wanted and valued, all the ways Jason wasn't. It's worse when Dick, who Jason had a pretty strained relationship with, is all over the new guy in a way he never was with him. It mirrors what you were saying about Tim making the version of Kon that loved him in the way original-Kon didn't. Obviously not what happened to Bruce and Tim but WE know that not Jason

The third part doesn't really fit them so much, the only thing I can think of is Jason coming to the realisation that Bruce didn't actually care about him, or Dick, that he probably didn't even care about the new kid either. Like Tim and his clones, Robins all eventually get discarded and thrown away when they don't meet B's standards, when they're not perfect enough. It's what Bruce and Dick used to fight about all the time too, before Jason died. Has Steph been Robin yet by the time Jason comes back? Idk. It would certainly add to that idea. Child after child, in the middle of gun fight after gun fight. What kind of a monster does that? So Jason decides to put it to the test. How much does Bruce actually care about Robin? He certainly didn't seem to care when Jason died, but maybe that's too small of a sample size. There needs to be multiple test trials. If Batman thinks so little of his sidekicks, if he's really going to be so careless with them, then he should to be prepared to lose a few.

Sorry for how long this is, I was typing and completely lost the run of myself.

i... had like a page typed out and then the whole building lost power so i think thats a sign for me to stop answering while at work, i wont listen though

honestly im really glad that tumblr now shortens posts, but never apologize for length, i thought this was a great read and i love getting peoples opinions on things!

i agree with all this, really, i think jason, pumped full of green pit rage water, would come back and see himself replaced and completely snap, it works really well and i love that narrative

i dont think jason feels bad for losing robin, it wasnt his to lose, he wore dicks suit while tim wore a new one out of respect for him, i think he felt replaced in a... deeper level

he came back to see that someone was occupying the space the grief and pain would have been in, someone else was pushing his ghost away, living his life, being loved by his father, being cared for by his brother, someone better at his job than he ever was, cold and smart where he was rash and angry, he came back to see that he was not only replaced, him being dead made things better

ofc, this wasnt true, his death nearly destroyed bruce, and it took a lot of effort to get him to feel human again cause he had lost his son, but jason didnt know that, as u said

meanwhile, i love the new 52 tim, i think hes tragic in a visceral way, and i love how his pain is so easy to feel, but in a way im glad we dont really talk about that era too much and usually act like its not relevant to the canon cause... its hard to justify tim being a good person in the new comics after reading the 2015s one

like, tim failing to clone kon doesnt justify him actually trying to replace his dead best friend who struggled with his place in the world, and i think the writers recently realized if they want tim to be a dark but brave hero they cant also make him morally corrupt at best and absolutely insane, theres a difference between red robin desperately trying to find batman and being a rude mess in the process and red robin basically experimenting with lives

[necer0s]

i see you making several posts about kon, some of which seem to be about fic. Do you have any good recs for kon-centric fic?

Do I???

I mean yes, but not as many as I’d like lol.

Ok, so top of the list obviously has to be straight on ‘til morning by merils. This is the fic that reignited my decades-dormant Kon fixation, and it is absolutely incredible. Those posts you’ve been seeing can all trace themselves back to this fic. I do not have the words to do it justice— I will simply say that if you only read one fic from this list, it should be this one.

buy back the secrets by sundiscus is more of a TimKon fic than a pure Kon-centric fic, but they’re both fully-fledged characters in a way that leaves me with no hesitation about putting it on this list.

Kon’s (Ever Growing) Super Family is a really good chill slice of life fic that I thoroughly enjoyed, complete with a sequel and a more Tim-centric expanded universe.

And finally, velveteen by suzukiblu. It’s based on the cartoon, which I normally don’t care about and haven’t watched, but it doesn’t need much context and is full of delicious angst. (Be very sure to check the tags, though.)

I wish I had more recs to offer! But unfortunately I kinda just got back into this blorbo, and his fandom tends to get swallowed up by the vast force of the Batfam fandom. Which makes it hard to find fics that have him as anything more than “that guy Tim is dating in the background”.

[isfjmel-phleg]

I've read all of Bart's and Kon's solos from the 90s/2000s, and about 100 issues of Tim's, and the contrasts among these series are striking for a lot of reasons, but one that's stood out is their approaches to narrative styles.

Robin (1993): Tim, the most introspective of these boys, tells his own story. Every issue is introduced with his internal monologue, which continues in abundance throughout. He takes the reader into his confidence; we know what's going on in his head, how he interprets events, every worry and self-deprecating thought. It's a rather confessional style, and it presents him as approachable and relatable no matter how outside ordinary reality his struggles become.

Impulse (1995): Bart, on the other hand, narrates only once: in #1, when he relates his personal history for a school essay. He lacks Tim's introspective nature, though, so a first-person narrative isn't sustainable for him. We have access to his thoughts mainly through pictographic thought bubbles that demonstrate the immediate, visually-oriented way that he processes the world. Instead, his story is related by an outside narrator who not only provides context but snarkily affectionate commentary, such as introducing him as "poster child for the judgment impaired." It's more removed from the protagonist than Tim's first-person narrative--a speedster raised in the future in VR obviously isn't going to be as immediately relatable as a fairly ordinary high-schooler with no powers--but it endears Bart to the reader through humor.

Superboy (1993): For the most part, there is no use of narration in this series. It begins with Kon in flight saying, "Okay. Time to pump up the volume!", and from there the reader is taken straight into the action. What little narration there is tends to be factual. "We're at this location." "So-and-so did XYZ." We get Kon's thought bubbles where relevant, but he does not tend to keep a running commentary the way that Tim does--he's not naturally introspective either. He and other characters sometimes relate his backstory, usually colored strongly by the teller's biases (such as Tana's account). But typically there's no narrator providing a particular perspective on events. The action seems intended to speak for itself, reminiscent of an objective narrator (and as a result doesn't always have the effect that was likely intended for the original readership). So it's very jarring in #91 when Kon takes over as first-person narrator in the form of a letter to a friend in which he gradually confesses fears and insecurities in the aftermath of trauma. There are a few other instances of his first-person narration in later issues, and it's reflective of character development. He's becoming less of an aspirational object to be admired and more of an individual with an humanizing internal monologue.

[suzukiblu]

I haven’t seen your Cass (Cain) at all. I’d love to see her. I’d also LOVE to get to see some Chris and Lois (or more Kon and Lois)! Lois choosing to be a mother despite lacking most of the natural instincts, and having issues with her own parents, means so much to me!

I def have a few WIPs with parental!Lois ahead, mostly with Kon and Match, but since I don't think I've posted anything with Cass yet, have this scene.

Context: omega!Jason is high-key feral and compulsively nesting about it.

"What on earth are you doing in there, Todd?" Pup Brother asks, eyeing the crumpled blankets on the foyer floor. Quiet Sister is standing beside him and looks excited, leaning forward towards the doorway on her tiptoes. Jason didn't notice them coming, but he wasn't all that worried about listening for anyone either. Also, they're both very quiet when they move anyway. 

"Nest," Jason says. He doesn't think he's being all that subtle here, but Pup Brother didn't get a traditional pack upbringing, he knows. At least, not the kind that allowed for nesting. That's not really how the League works. 

Jason definitely never nested when he was with the League. 

". . . nest?" Pup Brother asks, and looks just a little bit curious. 

Does Pup Brother ever build nests, Jason wonders? He's an omega too. He should learn how, if he hasn't yet. 

"Nest," he repeats firmly, then gestures beckoningly with a blanket that smells acceptably of packscent. Pup Brother frowns, looking confused. 

Nest! Quiet Sister signs delightedly before giving Pup Brother an encouraging push into the living room. She doesn't come in herself, though. Which–Quiet Sister is an alpha, of course, so that makes sense. Jason just wasn't sure if she'd know the etiquette, all things considered. 

"Er," Pup Brother says doubtfully, glancing between them. "Do you require . . . assistance, Todd?" 

Jason dumps an armful of throw pillows on him, then starts demonstrating how to arrange them on the floor. Pup Brother frowns again, holding the unused pillows in his arms and observing the building process intently. Jason is pleased. Pup Brother should learn this. Pup Brother should learn this, so he's showing Pup Brother this. So he's being good! Very good. A good omega. Yes! 

They're both being good. 

So that's good. 

Jason purrs some more. Quiet Sister flutters her hands happily, still waiting in the doorway. Jason wants to invite her in, but really needs to get the nest more established first. 

He'll let her in the nest itself, he already knows. Once it's done, obviously. Quiet Sister probably hasn't really been in a nest before–Pup Brother is the only other omega in the pack, after all, and she doesn't have an omega mate or any omega friends, so when would she have? 

. . . unless she's still courting that weird flirty omega from Little Brother's other pack, maybe? The sort-of-alien-sort-of-human one that makes cloud castles and almost drowned with her in a basement that one time or whatever. Whatever his name is. 

Or . . . wait, was Little Brother the one courting him? 

Hm. 

Well, maybe they both were. Jason isn't really sure, come to think. 

He'll ask later, he decides, and lays down some more throw pillows. Either way he's still inviting Quiet Sister into his nest once it's done. Quiet Sister deserves all the nests she can get. 

Jason hopes she'll like his.

[atlaculture]

Cultural Fashion: Zuko’s Book 1 Hair

We all know that peculiar hairstyle Zuko sports in Book 1. It’s also a hair style we see on the male Sun Warriors. This hairstyle, like other facets of the Fire Nation aesthetic, is inspired by Thai culture. In this case, Zuko and the male Sun Warriors are sporting traditional Thai topknots.

In traditional Thai culture, the crown of the head is the sacred portal of the spirit of life and is not to be treated lightly, especially regarding children. This sacredness extends to the hair on the crown, resulting in top knots grown over children’s fontanels (soft spots). In practical terms, it discourages careless adults from touching the most delicate part of an infant’s developing skull. The cutting of the top knot, known in Thai as kon chuk (โกนจุก), is seen as a rite of passage and an auspicious event for children between the ages of 7 and 13.

Obviously, these implications don’t quite carry over into the Avatar-verse, since we see plenty of adult Sun Warriors sporting the ‘do. Most likely, the hairstyle is meant to add to the Southeast Asian “flavor” of the Fire Nation.

That said, I do think this cultural subtext adds new dimension to one of Zuko’s most memorable moments, whether intentional or not. When Zuko cuts off his topknot, you can essentially view it through three equally valid lenses:

If you view it through a traditional Chinese/Korean lens, Zuko is renouncing his ties to his father; Confucians viewed hair as a precious gift from one’s parents and to cut one’s hair was seen as an act of disloyalty.

If you view it through a traditional Japanese lens, Zuko is renouncing his status in Fire Nation society and abandoning his title for the life of a peasant. In Japanese culture, a samurai seeking to join a monastery or the peasantry would cut off his top knot and undergo a dramatic decline in social status.

In you view it through a traditional Thai lens, Zuko’s hair cutting is a rite of passage. He’s leaving behind childhood and beginning his journey into adulthood. There’s no denying that Zuko matures a lot after he cuts off his top knot.

All of these interpretations fit the Fire Nation as they are a combination of Chinese, Japanese, and Thai culture.

Stuff like this is what draws me back into Avatar as an adult. The series is a mish-mash of so many different cultures, yet they all meld together in a way that still preserves the context of the different cultures they derive from. The show has a masterful way of integrating real-life cultural motifs and historical events into its own story, and it still manages to work both metaphorically and in-universe.

[mariaashby64]

(I meant to get started this post closer to when issue #2 dropped but I guess later is better than never) Anyway...!

Since that scene between Cassie and Cissie in the last yj dark crisis issue was clearly ripping off a scene from the original ‘98 run so I decided to dig around and compare them.

First of all here are the panels from the Dark Crisis run:

Now the team nagging Cissie about returning to archery is nothing new. Cissie reconciling with the bow was it’s own thing back in the ‘98 run. (Particularly in the arc where she went to the Olympics.)

I’d like to think this exchange in Dark Crisis is more the writer’s reminding the reader about the whole Cissie quitting, but still honing her bow skills. Or acting as a recap for new readers unfamiliar with Cissie’s storyline. However I’m not familiar with Cissie’s appearances beyond the ‘98 run so I’m not sure how accurate this characterisation is post N52.

The scene from ‘98 starts similarly.

For context, the reason for Cassie’s visit here is because they’re being called to help out in a big galactic war going on. (This is post the Olympics arc)

Now, Cissie’s argument in the ‘98 run is more of a personal one: Reaffirming her position on Arrowette despite the global need for her skills. Keyword here is personal. Cissie is a character that carries a lot of themes and veiwpoints (I rambled about this in another post) but it’s tied so closely to her character and identity that you couldn’t change these viewpoints without fundamentally changing her character.

Later, Cissie tricks Cassie into bailing after firing an arrow at her (Which I think is nicely contrasted with Cassie catching the arrows in the Dark Crisis issue) Cissie gives her this remark.

It’s got a lot to do with the title of Arrowette being a symbol, and how she’s become a tainted symbol due to Cissie’s actions and mistakes.But I think you get the point. This convo is all about Cissie.

In the Dark Crisis run Cassie is obviously talking to Cissie about finding the boys.

This is where the conversation changes from Cissie’s personal story to a critique on the 98′ run.

Now it’s been a while since I’ve read the run, so I don’t remember every villain. There were definitely villains that were misunderstood. Heck the boys’ very first villain was a kid who just wanted to play ‘nintendo’. They’ve also fought some very comically simple, evil, villains. (The baseball arc is a good example.)

But also, like, they fought Darkside. That was the climax of their series. Not to mention they also fought the people to kept Greta captive and freed a bunch of her friends from them as well.

Anyway,Cassie acts at the defence argument:

The line about the Boys is obviously there cause that is Cassie’s goal in this moment (To find them) but it also sets up this retort from Cissie:

Now the toxicity line is technically true. Cissie did have a toxic relationship with Arrowette, driven mainly by her mother and generational trauma. The next line is where cracks in the writing start to show. While it’s true that Cassie is the only one who stayed on with Tim, Bart, and Kon, (post YJ‘98). During the time that the run was still happening, Greta, Anita, and Slobo were all still major players within the team. (And might I remind you this writing is specifically a critique of the 90s run. Not the stuff that came after.) This could have been interesting if Cissie were to advocate for Greta and the others who were forgotten.That it’s not fair that the boys continued to get so much attention over them.

Instead Cissie is used to throw more shade at the boys.

It’s a shame the meta commentary comes off so heavy handed. I think Cissie’s point here could have been made a lot stronger if the writers had shown she’d kept in touch with Greta and Anita and really highlighted the fact that Cassie had disconnected with the friend group through her heroism. It would have grounded the argument within characterisation, rather than using Cissie as a prop to talk so directly about how the female characters were treated.

By the way this her stance in the ‘98 run: (Note the similar pose)

(Again, personal character motive)

The way these scene’s wrap up seem similar at first but there’s some key differences.

In Dark Crisis Cissie relents and agrees to help Cassie. Very begrudgingly, but she does.

And again giving her this attitude towards helping Cassie find their friends just makes her come off as cold and unlikable. Especially with all the meta talk about not wanting to sit in the same comic about three privileged white guys. These guys are her friends, and she’d never let them down like that, nor even pretend to not care

In ‘98 it’s all about her and Arrowette again. But here she doubles down on her stance and refuses to join.

This causes Cassie to leave without her and the conversation ends. In Dark Crisis, Cissie is the one to have the last word.

She acts really cold and refuses to be of much help later in the comic. She complains about her uselessness as an ordinary human.

But here’s the real kicker.

In ‘98, CISSIE STILL TURNS UP TO HELP THE TEAM AT THE END.

The whole set up is about her finding a way to help people outside of being Arrowette. It validates he character’s position on the matter while finding a loophole that allows her to still be part of the comic and team dynamic. Even if she is just a girl with a bow, when the cards come down to it, She Cares.

I kinda wish the convo in Dark Crisis was able to get a few more pages. The ‘98 scene was able to show this entire scene in about 5 pages whereas Dark Crisis had to over the same thing in only two (Talk about scraping for attention). I also respect it’s hard to write both characterisation and commentary on those characters, when said characters haven’t interacted in a comic for who knows how long. Plus ‘98 had the advantage of being in the middle of an ongoing run with ongoing character arcs.

I think the Dark Crisis scene could have been better if there was more focus on the loss of connection between Cassie and rest of the leftover ‘98 cast. It could have given readers more sympathy for the characters rather than the meta commentary. Even if they somehow manage to pull a “Ahah! Cassie was in a fake world the whole time too!” twist, it would have connected us more with Cassie and given her character more to reflect on personally. And you could have still related it to the meta critique, it just would have put character first.

I don’t envy the writers. They clearly want to give some commentary on the 1998 run, but are having a hard time portraying the characters... as characters, and not just mouthpieces for their viewpoints. If they really did use this scene from ‘98 as a reference, they did a poor job of understanding why that scene worked within it’s issue/run and clearly struggled to distil it into the two pages they had available.

There’s more I could talk about but I think I’ll leave it there. This post is long enough. I’m disappointed but curious to see if this series if going to be able to pick these characters up again.

[flashfuture]

Red Robin....yum

Sorry I legally had to add the yum. But let’s take a look at the Red Robin (2009) series by Christopher Yost and Fabian Nicieza. I just wanna go over some parts of the series that are misunderstood or maybe misrepresented by people who haven’t read the series. 

Yost wrote issues 1-12. Nicieza wrote issues 13-26. Yost is primarily known for his works on the X-Men animated shows. Yep that’s right not only another company but another medium. 

That is all he’s written for DC. You might note Battle for the Cowl as it sucked horribly. Why he was allowed to write Tim Drake’s solo series I’ll never know. 

And Nicieza is known for wait let me check... X-Force comics. That’s right more Marvel mutants. You might recognize him as one of the creators of Deadpool. Nicieza also wrote for Jean-Paul Valley in his solo series. Again who thought this guy should get Tim Drake’s solo??

Anyways that’s who’s writing Tim for context. Let’s get into the story. 

We begin with Dick Grayson telling Tim he’s giving the mantle of Robin to Damian and then Tim storms out. 

That’s the scene from Red Robin #1. Okay this is it. Tim’s entire life has fallen apart. Everyone he’s considered a parent is dead. His best friends are dead. And now to Tim it looks like his older brother is throwing him over. Over for a kid who in his eyes is someone who just tried to murder him once. 

But Tim is at his absolute lowest at the start of this series. Okay. Dick didn’t really have a choice his father is dead and his brand new child was dropped onto his lap while Bruce cosplayed as a caveman. He needed a way to keep an eye on Damian. And Robin is Dick’s so it is absolutely his right to give and take it. He was the one who recommended Tim to be Robin in the first place. 

But Dick didn’t just tell Tim you’re fired fuck off. He wanted Tim to be his partner and to stay with him. Tim ran off. Like Tim is allowed to be hurt by this don’t get me wrong. But the fandom has a habit of saying in an argument one person is right and the other person was being evil. That’s just so not the case. 

The other fanon idea is that Tim was abandoned by his family at this time and they thought he was crazy. 

Okay yes I can see how Dick turned his back on Tim completely here. No look Tim wanted to go look for Bruce. He didn’t want anybody’s help. Tim was basically running on a gut feeling anyways and Dick didn’t have time for that. As soon as he knew Bruce was alive he offered Tim his help. This is Tim making the active and knowing choice to leave Gotham and his place next to Batman to find Bruce. 

In issue #11 Tim returns to Gotham city and immediately begins working with Dick again right where they left off. There wasn’t any lingering animosity towards Dick. Just towards Damian and that started to lessen across the whole of the run. 

There is also the issue of The List which I’m just gonna link to another post cause I’ve gone over that before.

As well to completely disregard that a lot of Tim’s behaviors were ooc on purpose because he was going through a time of intense grief with so many of his closest loved ones dying is just not fair to the character. There is a point where Tim is bleeding out dying and all he hopes is that he’ll be able to see Kon again. This is not a comic of Tim Drake at his best it’s him at his worst and then he gets better. So I just hate to see it used as a blanket character sheet for how Tim Drake would act.

Okay that’s it. Those are the biggest things I see crop up in fanfiction. And obviously if you’re going for a specific AU then do whatever. But this is what was going on.

[thattimdrakeguy]

I think the “I’ll kill you panel!” is from the time YJ was being mentally tortured on Apokolips (?) by Granny Goodness (?). And Tim sees his teammates get killed one by one, begging him to save them (98 YJ was pretty dark at times). So I just thought it was natural for him to say that. Like he did lose his patience, mostly with Kon and Bart, but I do find that people exaggerate his responses a bit. More often than not, he’s the one who looks for less violent ways of resolving things. 1/

Like he doesn’t rise to the challenge when someone mocks him/almost attacks him (ex the football players, Slobo). He’s a teenager, in charge of other teenagers, and responsible for their safety. I think the writers never explored that potential enough, because there are moments where they make it seem (probs for the DramaTM) like he’s the law-adhering one (pre Robin Tim literally broke into Dick’s apartment lol) or that he’d rather put the mission before his teammates. 2/

YJ has a lot of Looney Tunes style humor, so the others would also be rough with each other. There’s a panel where Cissie gets mad and strangles Bart. (Also I felt Bart was the brunt of the joke more often than not) At some points in the series, each character had understandable tempers/fits or lashed out when the circumstances were tough, unfair or traumatic (read: puberty + being a superhero is tiring and traumatizing => emotions running high). 3/3

Definitely, like that’s the actual case of what it is. I think Tim said “I’LL KILL YOU. I’LL KILL YOU” directly to Conner, but context to that was, Tim is a fourteen to fifteen year old boy trying to sneak into a government lab (?) and Conner’s clone Match (who was the impersonating Conner and they had no idea) comes barging in ruining the whole thing purely because he has it out for Tim.

Like in context it’s clearly just a kid saying hyperbolic stuff cause he’s a kid--Ya know like how kids do.

Ever seen a kid super stressed? They say all sorts of things. I think most people do nowadays. I’ve told my friends I’ll kill them a lot during video games, but it’s not like it’s actual intent. I’m just super mad at them.

Anyone that thinks that was Tim showing a murderous side to his personality is just stretching stuff really bad, cause they really don’t like Tim or they’re super defensive over their own fav, which happens pretty freaking often on stuff like Twitter. Cause modern Twitter really is just classic Tumblr and it’s got so much second hand embarrassment going on. There is no peace in fandom lol. Exaggeration only. Not like Tumblr is flawless, I’m just here cause I prefer the format of the site. Fandoms are nightmaric when you struggle to read people and have social anxiety.

It’s a somewhat common occurrence to see someone purposely trying to make Tim come off as different from who he is by just taking random panels to make him seem like a really sour prick. And it’s nearly always just because their fav has had antagonistic moments against Tim, and they hate when ever someone talks about the less pleasant moments their fav has done even if it’s not in nearly of harsh of a context as they think it is.

Like they’ll excuse Damian trying to murder Tim cause he was raised by a cult, but treat Tim like he’s the biggest prick in the family because Tim doesn’t trust Damian or like him because the longest Tim has ever hanged out with Damian gave him a near-death experience that would traumatize anyone.

Is this to say Damian deserves to be treated like trash for following the protocol of a cult he was raised in? No, cause he obviously got better.

But people acting like Tim is the true villain because he has a natural reaction to an easily traumatizing event just feels ridiculous and forced. And I get lots of villains have tried to kill Tim, but Tim actually nearly did die by bleeding out. Which would obviously cause a particularly strong reaction.

They’re both in a spot where personally, I can’t really blame either of them, cause it’s both really understandable. Ignoring one whole side to it, is not the best way of looking at it. I don’t care which side you’re on. Seeing pissy fights over simple things are stupid no matter what.

Whenever I see someone talk about the moment in the first arc where Tim doesn’t show up to his date with Ariana they typically ignore the fact he was trying to stop a really important crime and later got cemented underground in a bank truck. They instead focus on how he kissed Steph so it sounds bad. Even then when you read it you can tell the context to why he kissed Steph is totally different than what they act like.

Or if he genuinely does do something shitty, they act like he’s just an evil prick--instead of just immature like how it’s supposed to be taken--cause he’s a kid. They just either take stuff out of context or exaggerate it so much that they come off as weirdly irrational over a piece of fiction.

A lot of shallow, obnoxious stan stuff that’s pretty typical nowadays no matter how much it bugs anyone, even those that aren’t heavy in fandoms.

Although, some of it probably came with the progressively more fucked way they wrote Tim in fairness. People trying to read original Tim through the lens of modern Tim always seem to have a hell of a time cause they’re trying to apply something to what isn’t there.

What can you really do?

They think Tim broke into Bruce’s house and blackmailed him while he was grieving to be Robin. It doesn’t get any more obvious they’re just really salty than that.

[ectonurites]

i’m SO interested in timkon from kon’s perspective!!! i haven’t read almost anything from dc so 90% of what i know is from meta on tumblr and all the context i have is literally everyone going “walking bi flag superboy and twink robin are in love, trust me on this” but then all the “proof” of (non-52) kon being into dudes (aside from *gestures at him*) is about bart?? so i’m like ok maybe this is an unrequited thing, but then everyone is going “kon is crying screaming throwing up bc tim has a boyfriend and it’s not him!!!” and i’m like ok i’m gonna believe you guys, i’m invested at this point, but y’all tricked me with the coffee thing so i’m keeping an eye open for selenur

LMAO. Okay so I do wanna say that like, the way I view things with them probably isn't necessarily the way everyone in the fandom does, especially because.... tumblr DC fandom in particular is not renowned for reading the comics and looking at things in context, versus I read a lot of comics and somehow retain a lot of the information (as is evident if you follow me/see my posts go around). Also as a whole, I feel like a lot of fan content with Timkon comes from a Tim-centric POV rather than having as much deep digging into Kon's thoughts + content (understandable in some ways because his solo? very uncomfortable a lot of the time!).

Before digging into things, disclaimer: I'll be talking a bit about Kon's dating history, and Kon at age 16 dated Tana, a 23 year old woman (he also dated another adult woman, Knockout, but that doesn't really come up as much here). It's fucked up, it's not a good thing, I hate that it's something that happened. But when talking about Kon's relationships it's not something I can like... ignore or gloss over, ya know? Because it was a big thing for him for a while and is part of his story. I just want it clear that like... while i'll be talking about it seriously as one of his relationships, it's something I actively dislike. But it's not something the narrative has him treat as bad, so when talking about Kon's perspective it might not come across as negatively as I personally view it, if that makes sense?

Anyways, the way I see things, Kon potentially developing feelings for Tim doesn't really happen until after Kon comes back to life (and even so not in a way I think he'd be at all that aware of), which places it pretty shortly before the end of the pre-reboot world. I think there are like, things that built into it earlier, which I will go into, but as a whole a lot of this is in far more subtle ways than the more obvious moments we can point to for Tim having feelings for Kon.

This post is incredibly long and probably kinda disjointed, just a fair warning 🤷‍♂️

Quick note that I don't usually like the "proof" phrasing that you brought up in the ask, anon, when discussing these sorts of things. I prefer to approach posts I make like this from an angle of supporting/explaining a reading/interpretation of the text, rather than necessarily "proving" something. What I've laid out here is a lot of how I interpret things, based on looking at Kon's history and the connections that I've noticed across it, rather than saying anything all that definitively.

To start I want to discuss some of Kon's dating history. Kon has two long-standing love interests (Tana and Cassie) and then a lot of smaller shorter-lived ones, some of these shorter ones are still rather impactful (for better or worse) and I've done a more in-depth list of his love interests that goes into all of them before here, but the two longer ones are gonna be more brought up/relevant to this post. One thing that his relationships with Tana and Cassie have in common versus his shorter more fling-like romances is him considering the girl a best friend/close friend first. Obviously this doesn't mean 'ah yes he falls in love with everyone he considers a best friend' but it's a present component of the relationships that are most impactful for him.

Tana is someone he meets basically right out of the cloning tube- they meet in Adventures of Superman #501 which is the first issue focusing on him. There's immediate aesthetic attraction obviously, but over the course of the craziness that is Reign of the Supermen they become and remain best friends, not moving into dating territory until his solo comic afterwards. He's on Young Justice with Cassie for a while where she has very clear feelings for him from before the moment she met him- but he doesn't start to actively show feelings for her until after a very specific moment- when Tana is murdered in front of him and Cassie during Sins of Youth (Superboy #74). After Tana's death, Kon begins getting overprotective of Cassie in ways that actively annoyed her (in Young Justice #29 she complains about it) and at the end of the comic he confesses feelings (in Young Justice #55).

I think 'it's a significant traumatic event that sparked him feeling more for her than he had before' is the main takeaway I want to highlight here. Because then, as we enter the Teen Titans run, Conner is hit with this big traumatic revelation about himself... with his best friend Tim right there with him (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #1).

Quick recap of some Tim & Kon stuff before this point, because their friendship had been a kinda complicated thing. Their first meeting had them pitted against one another because of Poison Ivy before eventually managing to work together, and the two started getting on each other's nerves pretty quickly once Young Justice starts rolling. It's very clear Kon thinks Tim has a stick up his ass, and Tim thinks Kon doesn't know how to take anything seriously. It's also clear imo that Kon from pretty early on wants Tim to think highly of him/respect him (like how when Batman told him that Robin thinks highly of him, Kon immediately parrots it back to the alternate universe Bruce as one of his first ways to self-identify in Superboy #60) and does think pretty highly of Tim too (thinking about Young Justice #3 at the halloween party the way Kon & Bart are so quick to defend Tim) even if he's hard-pressed to admit it.

The primary thing that holds Tim & Kon back from being closer in this whole era is the lack of trust because Tim won't share much about himself. This blows up between them on Apokolips with their big fight, and Kon's talk with Linda afterwards (in Young Justice #38) makes it clear how much he really does care about Tim & their friendship despite the tension they had.

Linda: You said it fine. So... what are you doin' up here? Conner: Thinkin'. Linda: About what? Conner: I dunno. Stuff. Linda: Boy, it's like pulling teeth with you sometimes, y'know that? Conner: I was just thinkin' about what went down on Apokolips during the war. Robin and I, well... We had words. Linda: I take it they weren't all nice ones. Conner: I said I don't trust him. Linda: Ouch. Conner: And ignored his orders. Linda: Double ouch. Conner: And implied he might be collecting files on us like Batman with the J.L.A. Linda: Mortal wound there, kid. Conner: Screwed up big time, didn't I? Linda: That's the problem with wartime, kid. For every person who covers himself with glory, there're a hundred guys who cover themselves-- and others-- with dirt. Conner: Or wounds. Like that one on your belly looks really nasty, you know? Linda: As okay as someone who nearly got herself disemboweled can be. Conner: Guess, in a way, me and Robin and the others were lucky, huh? Linda: In a way, yeah. On the other hand, some of the deepest wounds are the ones you can't see. Conner: *Sigh* You got that right. (Young Justice (1998) #38)

Once World Without Young Justice happens and Tim's name is out in the open, the big tension between them is gone and that really marks where I think they more mutually start seeing each other as best friends (but worth noting- Kon had called Tim his "ex-best friend" in Superboy #92 right after their fight on Apokolips- so as far as I can tell from what I've read, he thought of Tim as his best friend first- even in that era with their lack of trust)

Anyways, yes. So they are established best friends when we get to things like Graduation Day (where Kon drops his defensiveness as soon as he realizes how not okay Tim is during their scene in the closet together in #2)/the dissolving of Young Justice after Donna's death, and then the start of the Teen Titans run where they find out about the Lex thing together.

Now, to relate this back to the stuff with Cassie- finding out 'surprise! Lex Luthor is one of your clone parents' is a very different type of trauma than witnessing a death of a loved one, but Kon's reactions in these situations I think correlate, just matching what the trauma was. After witnessing Tana die in front of him and Cassie, he becomes overprotective of Cassie because he doesn't want something like that to happen to her too. After finding out this new traumatic thing about himself with Tim, he becomes pretty emotionally dependent on Tim because he's the only other person that knows/understands what's going on. It's Kon latching onto the other person who was present in a way that makes him feel better about what happened, and growing much closer to them in the process.

Kon's emotional dependency on Tim in this era I think is exemplified by the way he reacted to Tim quitting Robin & Steph stepping into the role- he's a jerk about it to Steph, and gets very upset about it around Tim.

Conner: So you approve of this new Robin? You want her to be in the Titans? Tim: I don't have anything to do with it. But she's a strong young woman. She really is. Conner: It's your ex-girlfriend, isn't it? Spoiler or whatever she used to call herself. Tim: Let it go. Conner: You're my best friend, Tim. How can I? The Titans aren't the Titans without Robin. They just aren't. Tim: Just because I'm not wearing a cape doesn't mean we can't hang. Conner: It won't be the same. I've heard that from too many friends I never talk to anymore. Jack: Tim, opening credits are rolling. Tim: Dad! Dad, this is-- Jack: What? Tim: ...Nothing. I'll be down in a minute. (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #14)

One little detail here that I know is just Johns not being aware of how things were actually going in the Robin book (something clear from this entire arc) but that always sticks out to me is Kon just jumping to assume Steph is Tim's ex when they hadn't actually had a proper breakup- absolutely not one that Tim could have told Kon about considering Tim & Steph were in fine standing before he quit Robin and he apparently hadn't communicated with Kon since that happened. Kon just really is placing his frustration on her, in a way that... I dunno. I think he'd be upset like this at anyone else aside from Tim being in the Robin costume, but the way he highlights who she is feels oddly targeted. Because he knows this new Robin has a personal connection to Tim too, it's like him going "You're my best friend and you're abandoning me, but because this girl is/was your girlfriend you're just gonna let it happen."

Obviously though, this situation gets resolved and Tim comes back into the Robin role, and their friendship picks back up (with Kon confidently saying "I knew it," when Tim calls to tell him he'd be coming back in Teen Titans #15). But they're still keeping this secret, and it's still this heavy thing weighing on Kon. Kon tries to be there for Tim when he's got bad things going on (Jack's death) but Tim has a much harder time letting himself depend on Kon. Also all the Titans Tomorrow shit happens, and everyone's gotta grapple with that possible future. Eventually we get to the "Do you think I have a soul?" conversation, where everyone on the team's bravery about coming forward with their secrets inspires Kon to finally do the same- before it all goes wrong. Lex takes over, Kon attacks the team, and is then plagued with guilt because he hurt the people he cares about.

And while he mentions everyone in his monologue bit after he'd quit the team and was hiding out in Smallville, we only see recaps of two, Tim and Cassie, as he talks about them: "I broke Tim... and I... I hurt Cassie... I hurt her." (in Teen Titans Vol. 3 #26). Plus during his whole mind/soul journey with Raven in the same issue, he again specifically highlights the two of them.

Being in any way responsible for harm coming to Cassie has been basically one of his biggest fears ever since what happened to Tana. And Tim is the person he's been relying on emotionally the most in recent times because of knowing about stuff with Luthor. So these two together are just this huge focus for him in terms of the guilt, they're grouped together in his mind, at this point they're his most important people. (and even after he dies and comes back, when he talks about this with Cassie later in Adventure Comics (2009) #2... he once again specifically brings up Tim and her separately while grouping everyone else together)

Now, shortly after this is when Infinite Crisis gets rolling, Superboy-Prime first attacks, all sorts of shit happens, Kon and Cassie fuck consummate their relationship in the barn before the final battle gets going- and then Kon dies in her arms after saving everyone. Tim gets there too late to say goodbye, we know the drill. Thus sparking the One Year Later era where we learn about Tim and Cassie both spectacularly failing to cope in even remotely healthy ways, etc etc. These are the things that you dig into for how Tim feels about Kon.

For the point of this post though, discussing how Kon feels about Tim, we've gotta fast forward to once he's back. Worth noting such things as 'all of the year after Infinite Crisis, the OYL era, most of Final Crisis, and everything in between' happens in that time he's gone, which causes a lot of change in both Cassie and Tim.

When Conner comes back, it's not like... everything just fits back into place exactly the same as it was before, for him it feels like he's been gone days but for them it's been well over a year (and a crazy eventful one at that). Cassie has become leader of the Titans, she's got responsibilities and is definitely a bit more hardened by the things she's lost, and getting people back doesn't just undo all the grief. Tim has gone off the deep end in ways because of just how many losses he experienced in such close succession (and while some people come back, they don't all for him), and is throwing himself into his search for Bruce. Meaning that neither of the two incredibly-important-to-Kon dynamics are what they used to be, and that forces him to approach things in a new way.

Alongside that he’s also back in full force dealing with the Lex/Clark angst. We find out about the lists he keeps comparing traits of each clone parent, and Cassie immediately catches onto the way he's trying hard to push himself into following Clark's path of life in Adventure Comics (2009) #2. Cassie tells Kon about the kiss that happened between her and Tim (while very specifically saying the reasoning behind it happening was her and Tim both missing him), and they reconcile their relationship but it's clear… things there are different now, because everyone and everything's changed, but that doesn't mean they should waste any of the time they have together.

And then the following issue is his first moment reconnecting with Tim. Where he sees how closed off and distant Tim’s being, how much he’s letting guilt destroy him, how much things aren’t the same between the two of them anymore… and Kon even says it’s freaking him out the way Tim’s acting. Eventually we get to the big moment, where Tim admits he tried to clone Conner.

Tim: My girlfriend died. My dad died. My best friend died. And I couldn't accept it. I couldn't lose you too. Conner: So what? Tim: I tried to clone you. Conner: Tim- Tim: But I failed. Like I failed everyone else. Conner: Tim, even if it'd worked, it wouldn't have been me. Tim: That's what Cassie said. And I know that. I know it wouldn't have been you, Conner, but... but it would've been something. Conner: Man, between everything you've gone through, Cassie's gone through, and Bart's gone through, I picked a really suck-ass year to be gone, didn't I? Tim: The worst. I am so screwed up right now. (Adventure Comics (2009) #3)

Even though I don’t think Tim was consciously aware of it, this moment was... Tim admitting the extent of his feelings for Conner in a subtle specific way that Conner would have been able to pick up on. I’ve gone into this in more detail here- but back when Tana had died in front of Conner and Cassie, Kon's immediate reaction was "No! There must be a way to save her... Bring her back... Clone her!" (in Superboy #74). To do the exact same thing Tim tried to do.

Back in Superboy #92, the instance where it really feels like Kon has feelings for Bart he just doesn't know how to grapple with, he phrases things like "Or some Freudian thing where I secretly think of Impulse as a chick-" in his head, and I feel like here in this instance he'd be having the reverse sort of thought- "Is this some thing where Tim secretly thinks of me like I thought of Tana?"

This is kinda the point where I start to see a... shift, in how Kon thinks about Tim- or rather it's that Kon is thinking more about what Tim thinks of him. (I'll get back to that idea later- but I want to cover some events of things that happen in chronological order.)

But even though Tim's not in a good place here clearly, once things are more out in the open Kon can see that even though they each are different and things maybe aren't the same anymore, much like how he and Cassie could reconcile- he and Tim can figure their stuff out too.

Presumably in-universe next the rest of Boy of Steel happens and Tim shows up again there with the whole core four reunited at the end as Kon throws his journal in the fire. Then we get into Blackest Night- where Kon has to face his own mortality in a complex way and Cassie's the one there to help him, strengthening their bond.

Over in Red Robin in the Collision arc Tim and Kon have their reuniting moment on much better terms once Tim has found proof about Bruce and everything- and we get the very well known hug scene, where Conner affirms to Tim that all he ever needs to do is yell for him and he'll be listening. A short while later now that Tim's not fully isolating himself he actually calls upon his friends to help with the Ra's stuff. Things are looking good with them again- but even so Tim's still not around full time.

In the Teen Titans book, around this time Conner and Bart officially rejoin the team, and there starts to be some tension between Conner and Cassie in a new way- where her feelings for Conner start seeming to get in the way of her being able to lead the team and make tough calls on the field, because she's too preoccupied worrying about him. Over in Conner's solo content he's also further trying to adjust to being back in Smallville, and doing some more reflection on his life and who he is- the stuff I was talking about over in parts of this post about these concepts of 'normality' and what that means for him. By the end he reaches a point of acceptance that he doesn't need to be 'normal', but while things are ongoing he's trying to figure out just... what it is he's really doing in Smallville, what life he wants to live.

And so this combination of things leads to Conner breaking up with Cassie

Conner: I meant what I said earlier. I'm not going anywhere. I'll always be a Titan and I'll always be here for you. But-- I think it would be best for both of us if we stopped seeing each other. Cassie: What? Conner: You want to focus on leading this team and me... Well I want to try having a life that isn't only about being Superboy, Isn't only about Wonder Girl. I want to have a life as Conner too. Something simpler. Normal. I need that right now. Cassie? I figure this was coming anyway. Thought I'd make it easier for both of us. Right? Cassie: Sure. Yeah. Conner: I still love you, Cassie. Cassie: I love you. (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #91)

So now Conner is in this place where he is single for the first time in a long time, and he's starting to do a lot of thinking and reflection on his life so far- figuring out who he is outside of just a superhero. The very next issue of Teen Titans is the crossover with Red Robin, and Conner is pushing hard the whole time on how happy he is to have Tim back around (and ultimately Tim does rejoin the team). This is also where we get this well known scene between the two of them:

Damian: Here's another one for you, clone boy. Conner: Seriously-- how do you put up with that little snot? Tim: I don't. I try to limit my contact with Robin as much as possible these days. Conner: Wish I could do the same. Still refuse to call him by your name. I don't care what costume you or him wears. As far as I'm concerned, you're my Robin, always will be. Tim: And you'll always be my clone boy. Conner: On second thought, maybe we should trade both of you in for Batgirl. I hear she's good. (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #92)

Where Conner is acting similarly in a way to how he did back when Stephanie was the one in the Robin costume- refusing to really even acknowledge anyone else in the role because to him that should be Tim. One thing I do also notice here is that... Conner says this sweet thing to Tim, which probably comes off a little more intense than he was intending it to (the 'my Robin' phrasing), but when Tim throws something similar back at him in a teasing tone (by taking Damian's insult and making it a term of endearment) Kon immediately redirects the subject with a joke... which makes me think back to Superboy #92 where Kon writes everything off he's maybe feeling about Bart as a joke. Kinda like he went "Woah- that interaction was very tender there for a second, and I don't know how to deal with that besides making a joke," ya know?

Especially if we consider the earlier notion I presented of 'he's thinking a lot more about what Tim thinks of him' and that being something he's just not sure how to approach or think too deeply about (like to question why he's now grown this concerned with Tim's opinion on him), so him switching gears quickly to keep avoiding it... checks out! Conner's not in a place to approach any of that sort of thing yet, he's still figuring out his basic place in the world.

Which brings us to one of my favorite more overlooked moments of Tim & Kon together, from Superboy Vol. 5 #6, where they talk on the Titans Tower rooftop at 5am about their places in the world, Conner being unsure if Smallville's really the right place for him- or rather how much longer Smallville will be the right fit. It's also showing Tim and Conner having their... their trust and dynamic back, now, even after everything that's happened.

The following issue though is the reason I keep harping on this concept of "Conner is thinking a lot about what Tim thinks of him," because Superboy Vol. 5 #7 is where Conner gets affected by a Red Mercy, an alien plant that causes the person it latches onto to experience their worst nightmares come true (the exact opposite of the Black Mercy- a plant that causes the person affected to experience their dreams come true, from the famous Superman story 'For The Man Who Has Everything'). Within this nightmare world, Kon discovers he had betrayed everyone and was embracing his Luthor side, he had done something to (presumably killed) Cassie, had killed Bruce and many others... and Tim is leading a resistance against him, with a mission to kill him. When the nightmare progresses, another thing happens right in front of Kon: Tim is shot and killed.

Which means that among the fears we already knew about, like being turned into Luthor's monster... some of Kon's other worst nightmares/greatest fears are the concept of Tim hating him and the thought of seeing Tim die. These are things they specifically devoted page space to, out of all the possible fallout that could have come from Conner switching sides (even Cassie who has been consistently shown as one of the most important people to him doesn't show up here, we're just told he did something to her).

Conner: Tim? Why are you dressed like that? What's going on? Please... just stop for a minute so we can figure this all out. Tim: You had your chance to talk. You had your chance to stop this. And every time, you deceived us... betrayed us. You destroyed everyone we care about... you destroyed this entire town. No more talking... Elongated Lass, hold him. Hawklad, Negative Boy... kill him. Conner: This is insane! Something's wrong Tim... This can't be real! I don't remember Anything! Tim: Take him down! Hawklad: What's the matter, Kent, suddenly growing a conscience? Or are you just mad that you're finally the one being hunted?! Conner: [I need to find Psionic Lad. I was with him... maybe he can help... If he's even still alive.]

Conner: I... I don't want to hurt you guys. Just stop so we can figure this out! Tim: Don't listen to him! Everything he says is a lie! I bet you think you're just going to tear through us like you did the others, don't you? Conner: Tim, I don't-- Tim: Well I've got a surprise for you, Conner... A unique cocktail of the Bane Venom and Hourman's Miraclo formula is coursing through me. Bruce managed to synthesize it before he died. Before you killed him! Conner: Tim... Don't... Tim: "Don't"? "Don't"?! After everything you've done? After what you did to Cassie? Conner: C-Cassie?

Conner: Tim! Tim: Arrgh! Conner: No! Simon: Don't worry, Conner... I'm on it. Conner: Simon?! Negative Boy: I'm gonna kill you Valentine!!! Simon: Whatever, freak. (Superboy Vol. 5 #7)

I think it was worth noting that Kon's scream of Tim name as he was killed was... literally put in a different color for emphasis. This was also the case with the other person we see killed during this whole nightmare dream thing a little later: Lori, Kon's kinda cousin on the Luthor side. Aside from those two the other person who nearly gets hurt/killed is Ma while Luthor tries to manipulate Kon into doing it. So the bonds that we see as most important to him here, the ones he's at this point most afraid of losing/fucking up... are his family, and Tim.

So... yeah, Tim and Tim's opinion of Kon is very clearly prominent in his mind at this point if an evil space plant so strongly latched onto that as a piece of all this! Whether that's something Conner's choosing to acknowledge/analyze or not, it's there. To me the place it makes sense for that to have started being something on Kon's mind is back where I first brought this idea up- Adventure Comics #3 when Kon may have been comparing Tim's reaction to his death with Kon's own reaction to Tana's. I can just see that as... sparking a train of thought that just kinda keeps going even if he's trying to ignore it. And once Conner and Cassie cut things off, while she's still obviously important to him, she apparently doesn't reach the level of importance in his subconscious that she'd physically show up in this sort of thing while Tim does.

Anyways, since this places us really close to the end of the pre-reboot world, there's really not that much more with the two of them together afterwards, just a few interactions over in Teen Titans like Tim trying to reaffirm Kon how he can as they're stuck going against some clones of him at the end:

Conner: Look at him, Tim. Looks just like I did. Tim: They're not you, Conner. Conner: Aren't they? Didn't I start out the same way? A blank slate? Tim: It's not who you were, it's who you are. You have a life, and friends, and a family. Conner: Good point. I have a lot. And I aim to keep it that way. (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #100)

And then I mean, reboots happen, Kon's gone for a hot sec, and now he's back since Young Justice 2019. Conner's one of the only people who for sure remembers all this above stuff I just mentioned, his memories of the pre-Flashpoint world are untouched because he was absent for the reboots. Meaning even as Tim's feelings and memories have changed and been taken away and restored... Kon's have been exactly how they were, just with the added layer of "Kon has missed everyone while he was stuck on Gemworld." Since coming back there wasn't all that much focus on just the two of them from Kon's side, until the little bit we got in Urban Legends actually:

Conner: You know, I think I heard from you more when I was dead. Tim: Superboy? Stephanie called you, didn't she? Conner: She's worried. Thinks you're acting weird. I told her it must be a day ending in Y. Tim: You wouldn't call if you weren't worried, too. Conner: What's going on, Tim? Who's Bernard? Tim: He's a... friend. He's in trouble. Conner: Can I help? What do you need? Tim: ...I don't know, Conner. (Batman: Urban Legends #5)

This interaction as a whole just fascinates me, and Fitzmartin's choice to include it in Tim's coming out story in general. Conner's line about when he was dead just... to me that has read since this dropped as "I know you were so desperate to have me around when I was dead that you tried to clone me, but now that i'm here again you're barely talking to me." Which... lots to unpack there combined with all the questions and Kon's clear concern... especially if we consider the 'saying you tried to clone me was kinda like an informal confession of feelings' idea as something in the back of Conner's mind. With him now seeming... kinda frustrated/concerned that Tim's not paying even close to that kind of attention to him anymore. Him asking about Bernard like this and getting such vague answers from Tim (as Tim's being in general cagey and avoidant) also just makes me really curious about how Kon will like, respond to finding out Bernard is now Tim's boyfriend, I can just see so many different ways it could go.

But anyways, basically.... my ultimate point in all of this is less to say there's a definitive "Yes, Kon is 100% clearly in love with Tim" indication, but more to point out "There's a framework here to support the idea of Kon having thoughts/feelings for Tim comparable to those he's had for love interests in the past," if that... ah... makes sense?

Anyways if you read all of this- I hope it even remotely made sense!

[amoretheiwa]

Feel free to ignore my ramblings but I just want to talk about Tim Drake and I can’t do it to my sister without her rolling her eyes at me (am I supposed to be studying for a 5 hour exam in a few days so that I can finally be a certified high school English teacher? yes. but Tim Drake) anyway, my nonsense ramble is very long so it’s going under the cut

so I’m planning a series of very angst fics all centered on our boy

and I’m an inherent nerd, like academically, so I’ve been doing research

research

I’ve been reading some of the most angst-filled Tim-centric comic arcs in an attempt to get a better gauge of how, canonically (*wheezes*), Tim handles stress and isolation and other bad things

And just from the search for Batman/temporarily running League of Assassins arc alone I have 8 pages of notes. 8 pages.

And my biggest conclusion? Tim is a simple minded man, but his mind is damaged. He doesn’t like compromising, he doesn’t like living the grey, but he will if he thinks its necessary. He takes after Bruce the most in that The Mission is his main purpose in life (psychologically, the implications and context are...equally saddening and fascinating)

After Bruce dies/disappears, Tim has a New Mission (he calls it that) and thus all of his rules, his decision making process, his allies change to fit that Mission.

But my rant--is this a rant? thoughts? I don’t even know--is more about Tim’s mental health

So in the Red Robin comic series, while Tim is searching for Bruce, there are a series of flashbacks. In them we see that Tim feels completely alone; he doesn’t trust Steph, Kon and Bart are dead still (even if they’re back alive by then, he either doesn’t know or is isolated from them, not positive on that), Dick has fired him (and, hey, Dick Grayson is my first DC/superhero love, I refuse to hate on him. Do I think he made the right decision? kind of, yeah. Do I think he handled it well? Not even remotely. But we only see that happening from Tim’s perspective in his comics, not Dick’s), and people like Cassie and Dick and the majority of the adults still in his life (as little a presence as they may have) think he has snapped, that the grief has finally gotten to be too much for him.

I know I’ve seen other people comment on it, but why are these adults not taking care of him like they should? He’s only 17, he’s not emancipated until after the whole mess with Ra’s, and should not be fully responsible for his own mental health

Anyway, I’ve been specifically making note of every instance that shows questionable mental stability

One thing that really sticks out to me? That I might have seen someone point out, but I really want to emphasize, is when Tim has been kicked out of the window

His injuries that he acknowledges receiving, not the ones we have to assume or observe ourselves, include: face gets fractured, gets a slash across abdomen, and a dislocated shoulder

His thoughts as he falls out the window: “I did it. I saved the people he loved. I saved everything he worked so hard to build. No compromises. He won’t say anything, he never does. But I know. I know that Bruce will be proud of me. Not a bad day” 

Not once does he include himself as one of the people that Bruce loves; he says “Bruce will be proud of me” which maybe for Tim’s fractured and screwed psyche is the same as being loved, but honestly isn’t the same

When Tim tells Dick that he always knew Dick would catch him, he is a dirty lying liar. Tim went into that fight with Ra’s not planning to win, almost definitely not planning to live. 

Remember when I mentioned Tim being simple minded but with a damaged mind? One of the things he also focuses on is not compromising, probably for the first time in months. Just like Bruce would have not compromised.

We know from other comics that Bruce does love Tim. When that whole thing with the robots and Batwoman’s dad and Tim “dying” we see that Bruce loves Tim. Dick does too. Alfred, Duke, Steph. They all love Tim. With that random & extra reference as proof...

Tim had a walkie-talkie he used to convey to Ra’s that he had saved everyone Ra’s had targeted. They obviously could hear him, and my question is, could they hear the fight? If so, why did no one else come help? I think the only real reason Dick made it in time to save Tim as he’s falling is because the instant he and Damian were safe, he started swinging. Sure, Bart could have made it, but he had someone he was keeping safe who couldn’t protect themselves. Same with Kon.

My thoughts/headcanon comes down to this: they all heard his interaction, his fight, with Ra’s. How chilling must it have been as Dick, or Damian, or especially Alfred, to hear Ra’s al Ghul say “Well done, Detective” and then a horrific crashing sound and whatever noise Tim must have made when that happened

ugh, just...the feeeeelsss

anyway. ramble done. i just wanted others to think about that too