#pre flashpoint

[tallochar]

Just got struck by the mental image of Tim coming across someone (civilian) that has gotten hurt and Tim triaging at a glance (with the experience accrued in both No Man's Land and, especially, Our Worlds at War) that there won't be enough time to get the person to Leslie's clinic or the nearest hospital.

And then promptly knocking on the nearest window and offering a small wad of cash and the promise of replenishing what he takes, haggling for a moment or two (okay, fine he'll throw large spectrum antibiotics on top of the replenishment as well) and being handed a medical kit that has more stuff than Tim can carry in his utility belt and then getting to work on stabilizing the person until the ambulance can get there.

Because Tim knows so much about field medicine, especially after the absolute horror show that must have been being a medical auxiliary (along with the rest of YJ) during Our Worlds At War, and all of the Gothamites who went through NML would have fully stocked kits and supplies in their homes, now that they are available again and they can afford (or steal or barter for) them, even if it's just as a trauma response.

[gbwildebeest]

I have written the first arc of my pre flashpoint Teen Titans continuation story. Excited to share with you guys. I am trying to figure out how to release it, and where. If you would be interested in helping with audio drama or webcomic production, lmk. Since this is a fan project, this is obviously just for fun/ a work of passion, so there wouldn’t be any compensation.

art by BillWalko of Deviant Art, who is NOT associated with this project

[necrotic-nephilim]

as much as I love the common "Tim worships/stalks Jason" trope in TimJay fanfiction because it's Good and making Tim a weird little freak is Fun, I think the underutilized dynamic is where Jason is the one weirdly obsessed with Tim and makes it Tim's problem.

Like, the moment Jason is confronted with the information that a third Robin exists, the first thing he does is cover his wall with pictures of Tim so he can just obsess and torture himself over it. That is the behavior of a man who is Unwell over Tim's existence and I love it.

red hood: lost days #4

And as much as a shitshow as The Titans Tower Incident™ is characterization-wise (though I think it has far more merit in depicting Jason's character than people give it credit for but I digress-) there's something very fun about the fact that even after kicking his ass, Jason respects Tim and is impressed by him.

teen titans (2003) #29

And on top of that, Jason can't seem to stop trying to ask Jason to Tim to work with him in some capacity.

robin (1993) #177

batman: battle for the cowl #2

While Battle for the Cowl is an exceptionally bad comic, especially for its characterization of Jason and the "be my Robin" bit is taken deeply out of context, I do think it's interesting how obsessed Jason is with believing that Tim is extremely competent, only held back by being "brainwashed by Bruce". (hence him leaving Tim for dead later on in the comic.) Jason seeing a darker side of Tim and wanting to bring that out of Tim, wanting to see what Tim could be if he let go of his loyalty to Bruce is so fun to me, tbh.

And in Robin #177, Jason seems genuinely upset Tim doesn't want to work with him. Jason sees such a raw potential in Tim and is obsessed with it, constantly wanting Tim to work for him and see Tim be the type of person Jason is. And despite Tim rejecting him, Jason doesn't shoot to kill Tim. I just cannot get over the fanfic potential of Jason obsessing over Tim, tracking him and seeing what he's capable of and what he could be capable of. Wanting to make Tim see things the way he does. To Tim it's corruption, to Jason it's freedom. Tim trying to 'save' Jason is fun and all, but Jason trying to corrupt Tim? That's even more fun to me. Watching that power struggle between them, Tim unable to get Jason off his heels as Jason gets more and more possessive and bold with each attempt.

And when Jason sees Tim successfully get Gotham back under control after a gang war, he's impressed. He praises Tim, even. And then Tim just. Breaks him out of prison.

robin (1993) #182

The way they're constantly trying to see something in the other that isn't there, hoping the other will come around? That is the most fucked up hate/love dynamic ever. Jason keeps coming back to Tim, keeps trying to find ways to get Tim onto his side. They're always chasing each other. And I think Jason would be the one to confess love first, the one to do anything to make Tim his. And when you consider after all of this, Tim has his Red Robin arc and is at his lowest, getting the closest he ever gets to considering murder? I think it'd be so fun to see Jason take advantage of that and worm his way back into Tim's life and finally push Tim over the edge.

[nenehyuuchiha]

[gnomewithalaptop]

Still stand by the fact that Cass should've beaten N52!Tim's ass into the ground for this one

[theresamouseinmyhouse]

every day i think about tim drake being an international art thief wanted by interpol in the rr comics and i think about the sheer volume of comedy that could potentially have

[sherwoodflorists]

The whole "Lian Harper has actually been alive and has just been teleporting throughout time" retcon is objectively stupid but I will NEVER complain about it because I truly have never quite forgiven Cry for Justice for taking THIS away from me

[tastycitrus]

there's an alternate timeline where the new 52 reboot kept all three batgirls but retconned all the robins except for dick, who went back to being robin with nightwing banned from being mentioned at all

[kittykatninja321]

Can I say something terrible. Can I tell you my vision of one sided pre-flashpoint Jayroy. Imagine Roy Harper at his DILFiest. Who wouldn’t be all over that?It’s post-Mia situation so Roy doesn’t trust Jason and thinks he’s a freak unfortunately this does not stop Jason from simping hard. He’s like 5 seconds away from calling him daddy. They’re forced to work together for convenient plot reasons. “We’ll be fine as long you behave yourself Hood” “you gonna spank me if I don’t? “🧍‍♂️” . He didn’t even mean to say that out loud. Oh it’s awful

[alvindraperzzz]

I’ve seen several posts and fic talk as if Steph knows Tim best, understands him better than anyone else, and it always bugs me because it’s so untrue. There’s more evidence of the opposite, actually. Steph jumping to (incorrect) conclusions about what Tim is thinking or doing is a long established habit of hers. She frequently assumes things about him with no basis, or twists what he says to fit her narrative. Even without comparing her to his relationships with other Batfam members or Young Justice, it’s clear she doesn’t understand him. She certainly doesn’t get him more than everyone else.

[wonderbatpanels]

JLA #78 (2003)

"I want to talk in private. And you are not leaving this platform until I have a time and a date."

[dolldefaced]

i do get a bit bitchy when people act like jason is stupid or lazarus mad or w/e for having doubts bruce loves him even if we back it up to pre utrh when bruce hasnt done...all that he's done from then on till now *gestures*. bc well. after all that no wonder lmao. anyway

like consider the end of jason's robin run w/ how bruce was acting & the things that were said (even if you don't want to consider the 'i'm not your father/teenage rebellion line from the later comics, bruce handled everything in the 80s...not great! it's no wonder an already traumatized kid might not handle that kind of response well. even if bruce meant the best (i think he did!) he handled it like shit lol).

it's literally what led him to sheila...who bruce didnt even know he was after, or like. where & what jason was doing at the time when he ran into him later.

then compound that with learning the joker is still out! still breaking out! and hurting people. and that there's a new robin. nothing has changed! you died and came back and everything is still the exact same!

and i think all of this stuff happening right before his death + finding out right after he was back was not great. that's a huge trauma to be dealing with + you feel like you weren't important? it's gonna compound

like i don't think it's stupid that he feels unwanted! there are warranted reasons for that pre utrh.

[necrotic-nephilim]

I think what I love the most about Reverse Robin AU TimJay is the absolute potential for hero worship with Jason toward Tim. In canon we often forget that Tim didn't really care for Jason as Robin, meanwhile as I never shut up about, Jason has been weirdly respecting and obsessed with Tim since finding out about Tim's existence. So if you flip their order, make Tim Red Hood and make Jason Red Robin, there's so much room for hero worship from Jason.

As Robin, Jason has always teetered that edge of being pro-murder or not. Whether you believe he killed Felipe or not, even in his Post-Crisis introduction as Robin, he almost kills Two Face. Those concepts of lethal justice have always been brewing inside him, just reigned in by Bruce. So if you have Robin!Jason witnessing Red Hood!Tim start killing people and quickly making noticeable change in the landscape of gangs in Gotham, Jason would take quick notice. I think Tim as Red Hood would still be lethal, but there'd be a different application than Jason's Red Hood. Heads in duffle bags isn't Tim's style, even if he kills. I think you'd see something much more akin to that time Tim almost killed Boomerang, where it's such an elaborately thought out set up, it realistically doesn't even look like Tim killed anyone. It'd take months for Bruce to connect this string of deaths as anything other than coincidental, let alone link them to Red Hood. And Jason is wickedly smart, even as Robin. Jason, putting those pieces together before Bruce does and witnessing the undeniable positive change for Gotham it's enacting? Robin!Jason would be incredibly drawn in by that, and then even more-so, a Red Robin!Jason who has to grapple with being replaced to make room for the next Robin would I think, in anger, turn to Red Hood. And Tim would push him away at first, his plans don't have room for a scorned teenager who's trying to get back at Bruce and Nightwing!Damian like this- but I think Jason would wear him down. Prove to Tim that Jason can think on his wavelength.

Slightly related, what interests me about Red Hood!Tim is how it'd implicate his closeness to Ra's. Jason is taken into the League by Talia in Lost Days and Ra's doesn't necessarily approve of Jason's presence, especially not of Talia dunking him in the Pit, but Ra's has always canonically been A Little Weird about Tim. I think in a world Tim dies as the second Robin, it would be Ra's who dunks Tim to preserve his mind that Ra's thinks shouldn't be wasted, and you have the potential for 'apprentice of Ra's' Tim wrapped up in it all, even without him experience the Red Robin arc. So when it's Jason as Red Robin, instead of him going to Ra's when he's scorned by the Batfamily, he goes to Tim. The person he once idolized, because I think Tim would've been Jason's Robin. Smart, competent, a strong legacy to live up to. And now he's back, and he's pro-killing, an edge that Jason has always teetered on and would feel even closer to when he's replaced by a young Dick. I think Tim wouldn't ever be able to get rid of Jason.

Then on Tim's side, I think his reaction to being replaced after his death would be a complicated one. Objectively, being the Robin who believes Batman needs a Robin, he'd respect the logic and know Bruce was always going to replace him eventually. But still, there's always going to be that instinctual emotional reaction of betrayal and replacement. I think he'd view Jason at first with anger and distance, but then, seeing Jason as this street kid with begrudging potential, I could see Red Hood!Tim testing Jason. Constantly throwing things at Jason, seeing how he reacts, if he lives up to being Robin. Tim has a need for analyzing people, understanding their strengths and weaknesses. And he seems the Robin mantle very uniquely, he'd need to have it proven to him that Jason can handle it.

So you would have this dynamic of Jason hero worshipping Tim, slowly believing in Tim's methodology. While Tim is at first dismissive of him, but then starts to test him, see what makes this kid tick. And I think the TimJay potential of Jason trying to prove himself to Tim could be Neat.

[strunmah-mah]

Can I just say, I love Lian's new fit. Keep the cat mask, but putting it in her Dad's colors feels like a good way of merging her pre-flashpoint history with Ram V's revival of her.

[liedownquisition]

While it's entirely possible that the writers who sent Damian to hell didn't know or care about it, but I think it's important to recognize that in dcuineverse cosmology it's entirely possible to damn yourself to hell by feeling too guilty about stuff.

Like, that's how hell started in the first place.

[ravenlilyrose]

You know all those time travel fics where it’s like: “I can’t blame them for that because they haven’t done it (yet)”?

Reading comics is a lot like that sometimes.

“I can’t be annoyed with them for that; they didn’t do that in this continuity.”

“I can’t hold that against them; that only happens in one of the tv shows.”

“Wait, they actually haven’t hurt that person; that’s only in the other canon.”

And fandom really doesn’t help because someone will refer to an event and you’ll wrap it into your understanding of a character only to discover weeks later that it actually only applies to one of the half-dozen versions of that character.

Anyway, DC I love you, but you drive me completely nuts.