#we're literally all a bunch of nerd

[silvertws]

PETRO WAS CRYING AND I WAS CRYING OMFG.

SABRE WHY.

WHY MUST YOU DO THIS TO US.

Nah.

Nah.

Bro better pull a fucking 180 on that freaking little fairy-blue thing BECAUSE HELL NAH, HELL TO HELL TO THE NAH.

Leave the boys alone bish.

I'm too attached to them.

I cannot.

I CANNOT HANDLE ANOTHER APO-OWEN SITUATION OK?!!!

I think I would simply perish.

Gone.

Just like that.

Poof!

I hate how attached I am to the silly Minecraft guys.

BUT MY BRAIN... THE PARASITE... THE DEMON IN MY BRAIN WANTS TO LIKE THE SILLY MINECRAFT GUYS...

I need someone as unhinged as me to talk about the sillies, for my own sanity.

Which is, barely there honestly, but that's besides the point.

I believe in redemption arcs PETRO PLEASE, PLEASE YOU CAN STILL FIX THIS.

Please, I just want them to all be happy, I'm sobbing.

ncjekwlalls PLEASE.

Let the fellas be happy.

Like, I usually don't ship characters ok? After Origins I just don't.

But tbh platonically??? Hell yeah, let the fellas be wholesome, no kissing no nothing, just hugging, telling each other sweet things- I will literally be kicking my feet like a little kid.

Also, on a side note.

Ruined Reality rants and theories up ahead.

Heyyyyy guys how are we feeling about the Newest Ruined Reality episode??? Yeah all good? Just doing a check in on all of us.

I mean, yeah, as expected.

Also, alright, this is gonna become a slight theory moment.

Rainbow crystal + heart of the soulstice?

You know how the rainbow crystal is made with the energy of the chromatics?

Yeah well, if the rainbow crystal still works, which I'm led to believe , fusing that energy with the heart, could potentially... Either give life back to the chromatics... Or... Create new chromatics but using the older souls, kinda like reincarnation.

ALSO AH, MY THEORIES WERE KINDA CORRECT HELL YEAH.

Mf First Curse better not bother Light smh Balance, go punch him, you literally can, since you belong in the same omniverse-? So go and punch him thank you very much.

Anyway.

I seriously do not know if Light will be able to bring everyone back.

If he manages to bring Steves back, it's definitely not gonna be everyone.

Not only because a lot of bodies were destroyed, but also for a storytelling factor.

Which is why all of them staying dead is a bittersweet victory, sure, you did it Light, good job! Every Steve who's left is now safe from that! Except... Well, the last Steve kingdom kinda... Doesn't like you. So I don't know if you're going to be allowed there...

Oh, so living with the professor? Yeah sure, if you want to have another metal rod in your leg you can.

Living with Ellie and uh... Cassian....?(I am so bad with names omg) in their little magic thing?

Yeah sure.

Go on.

They already adopted you my good sir, come on, they saw you and were like "yes, this one, ours now, yoink"

Also NCIEKSKSLLSLK PROXIMA.

Proxima the GOAT.

The FUCKING GOAT.

Even in death, EVEN IN DEATH BRO WAS STILL THE GOAT.

Another possibility.

TFC: "yo Light, sup"

Light "gtfo"

TFC "No u"

And then Light gets sent to ANOTHER UNIVERSE Just to suffer AGAIN.

Because remember kids.... TFC cursed Light to suffer FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND- yeah you get the gist of it.

So what happens when there's nothing more to make him suffer with in one universe...?

That's right... You send him to another one so he has to start all over again... And again.. and again...

BUT BIT BUT

I find this very unlikely because the reset trope is kinda overused and annoying and I also believe it would take out from the whole experience.

Like on a long run, it makes sense that TFC would do that.

BUT THIS IS A MINECRAFT ROLEPLAY GUYS.

There's just some things you cannot do or play with enough depth.

So, going back on the main topic.

What happens now?

Well, Light, Seer, Galaxy and To- FUCK THAT MF KILLED SOREN AGAIN I CANNOT.

I CANNOT WITH THIS GUY.

Smh, letting Light go through the loss of Soren not once BUT TWICE.

smh.

Anyway.

Now.

I already tried to explain how I think the rainbow crystal might be tied to "fixing" this.

And I think that's honestly our best bet.

Like, before this episode, I honestly thought they were simply going to yoink it from Lewis and Light was gonna use it.

But apparently they didn't do that...

Also like I'm sorry.

WHY THE FUCK DID THE RAINBOW CRYSTAL, STAY FUSED WITH LEWIS EVEN IF HE WAS DEAD.

Nah cause like, I always found that, not particularly logical.

Without the energy from the host, the only thing left with energy IS the crystal.

It would have made sense, in that case, if the crystal, its energy, also caused Lewis body to "live" but without actually being Lewis. But pure energy.

How would the crystal stay fused with Lewis?

Does that mean bro still has some energy somehow?

Was it the soul energy that kept them forcibly united?

I'm probably looking too much into it ngl, it's probably another plot hole or simply something that will be explained later... Maybe.

If the rainbow crystal is not going to be used in any way with the heart, I'll be surprised.

It could be like, a rainbow heart or whatever.

It's seriously the only thing I have going on right now.

Because it's the only thing with enough chromatic energy left to actually do something.

Unless SOMEHOW Light goes back to the other Steve Kingdom and Genesis is fucking alive, just like that, randomly, because he can.

I have no idea if any other deities are actually canon in RR.

Is Origin Steve canon? Or any of the other things in Rainbow Quest? Because Seer, Colle, Genesis, are all things from there as we know.

So just how much from that universe also transpired into this one?

Are demon Steves a problem we're going to have to deal with after everything and Seer is finally put to rest?

Also, yes, Seer will die.

I mean, he literally asked to be killed guys, what do you want? I say let him die. Colle is gone, that's enough pain already, I'm not gonna watch Seer becoming Void again (which btw, I think it's already happening or has already happened during the fight and Void is simply playing with everyone as per usual).

Still hoping for a Light corruption/villain arc (more like corrupt) because bro deserves to let out some steam and I support Light in literally everything he will do at this point.

He needs a beach episode fr.

Actually, no.

WE need a beach episode.

... I'm drawing that shit, I'm putting that in my nonexistent list of things I need to draw for my own sanity.

Oh.

Wait.

I completely forgot about the redstone core guys.

I mean, I don't think that's gonna help..? Idk I feel like it's a different energy from the one in the crystal or the heart so... Idk...

But maybe it could still be used for other things???

Also, we could simply get a time skip, to like, months later or something.

It has happened before and I honestly wouldn't mind it.

There's like, the option of going to the last Steve kingdom and asking them for help, but they must have moved by now, sure we can locate them with the assistant I suppose, if it comes down to it.

Also, one thing.

(idk man, some of y'all might find this offensive or call me chronically online for this :/)

Me whenever gay is used mockingly in a Steve-verse story while literally everyone is the same fucking gender as the other and their reproduction is literally based on MAGIC.

Like I'm sorry but make it make sense.

It's probably one of the things that annoys me the most.

I'm not saying that now everyone is forced to accept ships between certain characters.

I'm saying that there are not many sexuality options in a world where there's usually one gender.

You're either, Aromantic or something on that spectrum, Asexual or in that spectrum, Gay because there's literally one gender there to be attracted to.

Unless we're talking about universes that use more.

Or we could bring in the possibility that since they're all Steves or Alexes, they're all canonically non-binary.

I don't give a single fuck about romance, I can live without it.

But it annoys me, when comments are made, that logically speaking, don't make sense.

One of the biggest plot holes in RR until Ellie was introduced, was Cliff talking about women.

Which was resolved when Ellie came through and was like "no yeah, we exist actually, well used to".

Which again creates another plot hole to how tf did Cliff even meet one of those if they went extinct.

Disclaimer

I wanna clarify that I love RR and the other Steve verse stories or I wouldn't be talking about them. And that my rants are not directed towards the creators in any way, I do not, nor cannot, dictate how they decide to write their stories.

It's their tale to tell, I'm just here to watch, and listen.

I have opinions just like everybody else and if anybody ever takes offense (for some reason) to what I say, suck it up , talk to me like a normal person.

There are opinions to which I'm not willing to change my mind on, but I will still listen to others, just like there's some of which I will probably change my mind on.

As long as you're respectful about it, so will I.

Anyhow, I'm shit at explaining my opinions, because I'm horrible at conversations and English isn't my first language, so I'm sorry if I made it look like I was being rude or judgemental.

[fractempyreal]

i wish cringe culture would come back to tumblr full force so people could be a little more humble again.

[justlemmeadoreyou]

rain-kissed* (footballer!harry x

nerd!y/n)

summary: y/n and harry, former rivals turned reluctant partners, find unexpected chemistry. heated glances, playful banter ignite a spark. a near-tragedy makes y/n confront feelings, and...will they be reciprocated? ft. lots of mutual pining

words: 6.1k

warnings: Angst, fluff, mentions of a major injury, cursing, kissing, hints of smut, mutual pining.

Y/N groaned as she walked into the lecture hall for her literature class. "Are you kidding me?"

There in the very front row sat Harry Styles - captain of the football team, president of one of the biggest frats on campus, and certified douchebag extraordinaire. His feet were obnoxiously propped up on the desk in front of him as he laughed loudly with his friends. 

"This class is gonna be a nightmare," Y/N muttered, taking a seat as far away from Harry's circle as possible. She couldn't stand arrogant jocks like him.

Class started and the professor cleared her throat loudly, shooting Harry a pointed look until he dropped his feet to the floor with an eye roll. "Alright, since this is an upper-level lit course, we're going to kick things off with a big group project."

A collective groan went through the class. Group projects were the worst, especially when half the group didn't pull their weight. Harry raised his hand lazily.

"What's the project, Millers?"

The prof narrowed her eyes at Harry's casual address but proceeded. "You'll be analyzing the themes and formatting an anthology of poems, plays, and short stories from a particular era or movement. I'll be assigning the groups and topics."

Y/N mentally prepared herself to get stuck doing all the work as usual for her group when Millers started listing off the pairings. 

"Styles and Y/L/N - you'll be covering the Romantic period."

Y/N's head whipped up in horror as Harry scoffed loudly. Of course they'd get partnered up. This was quite literally her worst nightmare.

"Fucking kill me," Harry grumbled, slumping back in his seat rudely.

"I'd rather work alone," Y/N couldn't stop herself from retorting. Immediately, Millers zeroed in on her with a stern look.

"I don't recall there being a choice, Ms. Y/L/N. Unless either of you plans to drop this course, I suggest you learn to work together effectively."

Gritting her teeth, Y/N forced out a tight, "Yes, Professor."

Harry was already texting rapidly on his phone, not paying any attention. This project was going to be utter hell.

The rest of the semester only proved Y/N right about what a nightmare it would be to work with Harry. Their first meeting to divide up the work went about as well as could be expected - which is to say it was a total disaster.

"Look, I don't have a bunch of time for this bullshit poetry stuff," Harry kicked back in a creaky chair, looking entirely too at home in the empty classroom they'd claimed for their work session. "How about you just do the whole thing and I'll, like, proofread it at the end or whatever?"

Y/N stared at him incredulously. "Absolutely not! This is a hugely weighted project, Styles. I'm not doing all the work myself."

He shrugged impatiently. "Why not? You seem like a big ol' nerd who'd be into this."

Biting back a retort, Y/N forced herself to remain calm and reasonable. If he was going to act like a damn child,she had to be the adult in the relationship–or whatever this was.

 "Forget it. We're going to split everything 50/50 whether you like it or not. I'll take the poetry analysis and you can have the plays. We'll swap sections to proofread before compiling the final thing."

Harry made a face like she'd asked him to perform surgery. "Do I have to? Plays are so boring."

"Don't care," Y/N said flatly. "You're pulling your weight on this one way or another."

With a melodramatic huff, Harry finally agreed and they were able to separate the reading materials and due dates before parting ways, both dreading the long weeks ahead.

Except...after trading several heated email chains and a couple disastrous coffee shop meetups, something shifted. Maybe it was the punctuality that struck after virtually living in the library for a week straight. Maybe it was how they both surprised each other by not being complete idiots about the subject matter. But at some point, the bickering and resentful silences turned to a bearable truce and even - dare Y/N think it - a hint of reluctant respect between them.

Y/N had assumed Harry was just another brainless party bro who skated by on his looks and family money. But to her surprise, he actually had intelligent insights into the Romantic poets and playwrights - even if he still whined about having to read "this dramalogy crap." 

And Harry, who had fully expected Y/N to be an uptight, pretentious book nerd, found himself caught off guard by her whip-smart analysis...and her unexpected sarcastic quips that had him stifling laughs more than once during their study sessions. He called her nerd instead of her usual name, but was now slipping back to using Y/n more often.

"Oh my god, you did not just say that about Lord Byron!" Harry snickered as Y/N made another scalding comment about the poet's arrogant womanizing. 

"What? The man was an infamous manwhore by all accounts," Y/N shrugged unapologetically. "Self-important dickhead thought his brooding and philandering made him a genius."

Harry gasped in mock offense. "How very unromantic of you, love! Have you no poetic soul?"

Without missing a beat, Y/N deadpanned, "I prefer to admire poets who didn't give the clap to half of London."

The startled laugh that burst from Harry's lips was so warm and uninhibited that Y/N felt an unexpected little flip in her stomach at the sight. Whoa, what was that?

Shaking it off, she hid her face behind her book again, tamping down an oddly giddy–sort of feeling. Just because she'd managed to find Harry slightly less insufferable lately didn't mean anything.

And so it went, their bickering gradually becoming more lighthearted and playful rather than biting. The weeks ticked by as they somehow formed an unlikely...friendship? Bros? Sure, they'd go with that for simplicity's sake.

At some point, they started expanding their hangouts beyond just study sessions too. Grabbing food after class turned into actually sitting together, Harry regaling Y/N with stories from his frat's latest shenanigans as she pretended not to be entertained. 

On the rare nights Y/N wasn't holed up writing papers, she started joining Harry and his boys at their favorite dive bar, quickly becoming the calm voice of reason trying in vain to talk them out of their next boneheaded plan.

"Come on, PlainJane! Live a little!" Harry teased, throwing an arm around her shoulders at the bar. 

The rowdy group cackled at Harry's horrible attempt at a literary-themed nickname for Y/N, as per tradition when any new face got absorbed into their friend circle. Personally, Y/N thought it was a lame pun, but she secretly loved how easily she'd slotted into their bizarre fratty family...and maybe especially how Harry always seemed to plaster himself to her side whenever they went out.

The camaraderie and effortless banter flowing between them should've been a huge red flag that something was shifting. But Y/N was quite stubbornly oblivious, as was Harry in his own way.

At least, that was until their big group presentation day rolled around. They'd been prepping and quizzing each other for weeks, reviewing notes and analysis essays till they were cross-eyed. Harry had really stepped up, much to Y/N's surprise, retaining way more than she'd expected about the playwrights and their major works.

The whole lit class was spread out in the lecture hall, with bullet-pointed notecards and thick anthologies ready as the first group took the floor. When it was finally Harry and Y/N's turn, they moved to the front in sync, Harry shooting her a subtle wink as he grabbed the microphone first.

"Buckle up, kids - this is how you do a proper literary presentation," he drawled cockily.

Y/N rolled her eyes on reflex, biting her lip and bumping his hip with hers in playful admonishment. "Shut up and just start already."

Neither of them noticed the amused looks being swapped by their classmates at their easy rapport. Or Millers leaning back with a knowing smirk, clearly recognizing the chemistry flying between her formerly antagonistic partners.

For the next hour, Harry and Y/N launched into their meticulously prepared overview of the key figures and works emerging from the Romantic period. Their back-and-forth was flawless yet casual, almost playful at times with little ad-libs and jokes only they were in on.

At one point, Harry lightly mocked Lord Byron's arrogance with a pompous impression that had Y/N doubled over giggling into the mic, barely choking out the next lines through her laughter. When she managed to catch her breath, she shot him a look that was equal parts fond exasperation and...something more heated.

There was a noticeable spark between them that had clearly evolved far beyond the adversarial classmates they'd started as. And if anyone could miss that subtext, it became blindingly obvious at the end when they seamlessly transitioned into their concluding remarks, standing shoulder to shoulder.

"So in summary, while the Romantics may have been a pretentious bunch of melancholic lads-" Harry began.

"-their pioneering works cemented their place as quintessential figures in literary history," Y/N picked up without missing a beat. 

They shared a grin before finishing in unison, "And that's the tea, no cap."

A surprised burst of laughter rang out from their classmates at their cheeky sign-off, even the prof hiding a smile behind her hand. Everyone could see it - the easy chemistry, the almost electric undercurrent between the former rivals.

Everyone, that is, except Harry and Y/N themselves. 

As they moved to return to their seats amid the applause, neither seemed to register the weighted looks and muffled whispers following them. Harry just ducked his head with an almost bashful smile, still riding the high of how flawlessly they'd worked together. While Y/N felt her cheeks flushing under the weight of what she convinced herself was just residual adrenaline.

In the weeks after their wildly successful presentation, that same strain of electrifying connection only grew stronger between them. You'd never know they'd spent the first half of the semester low-key loathing each other based on their current vibe.

Now, when Harry's frat brothers tried to rib him about his "study buddy" at their typical dive bar hangout, he just threw an arm around Y/N's shoulders and proudly declared, "More like my brain twin!"

Y/N would just duck her head with a bashful grin, pointedly ignoring how her heart did a little somersault at both the affectionate nickname and Harry's easy touch.

Or like when they sprawled out on the quad between classes, passing a bag of chips back and forth as Harry ranted about his coach riding his ass over the big rivalry game next week. Without even thinking about it, Y/N would reach out to squeeze his knee consolingly as he huffed out his frustrations. It was such a simple, natural gesture between them now that she didn't even register the slightly stunned look Harry shot her before clearing his throat gruffly.

Even their friends couldn't resist commenting on their respective obliviousness at this point.

"Bruh, Y/N literally lets you call her 'love' without punching you in the dick," Niall pointed out bluntly one night when Harry claimed, once again, he and Y/N were "just friends." His Irish buddy arched a skeptical eyebrow. "Pretty sure she wants to ride your lancer if you know what I mean."

Harry smacked him hard while trying not to get flustered. "Shut the fuck up, asshole."

While on Y/N's end...

"Sooooo, when are you gonna admit you have a huge crush on Styles?" Her friend Riley asked point blank over brunch, making Y/N nearly choke on her mimosa.

"What? No I don't!" She insisted a little too quickly, refusing to meet Riley's all-knowing gaze. "We're just...really good friends."

Riley hummed disbelievingly. "Right. And I'm the Queen of England."

Y/N opened her mouth to protest further before clamping it shut as her mind started helplessly rehashing all her favourite little moments with Harry over the past few weeks. His warm, anthracite eyes crinkled at the corners when he laughed at her jokes. The proud grin he'd get whenever she successfully understood something he'd tried explaining. The way she felt this inexplicable magnetic pull to stay pressed into his side for as long as possible whenever they hung out...

"Oh my god," she breathed out, smile slipping as the enormity of her revelation dawned. "I'm in love with Harry fucking Styles."

That's not to say the smitten epiphany immediately changed anything between the two. Well, maybe it made their lingering hugs and casual touches go on for a few beats too long. Or had them both shyly stealing glances when the other's back was turned.

***

Mostly though, they just continued their cozy, obliviously pining routine of late night FaceTimes and weekends holed up studying together for finals. All while Harry's team prepared for their annual football rivalry game - the biggest matchup of the season that would make or break their championship chances.

The night before the game, Y/N found herself inexplicably anxious as she sat in the stands amid a drunk, raucous crowd. Harry kept shooting cheesy grins and double finger-gunged winks her way whenever he trotted past her section, clearly buzzed on adrenaline.

"Go get 'em, superstar!" She shouted at one point, laughing as Harry blew her an obnoxious kiss before getting back in the huddle.

The energy in the stadium was electric and infectious, Y/N finding herself caught up in the cheers and chants despite not being a huge football fan normally. Something about watching her...Harry out there gave her swirling butterflies low in her belly though.

As the intense game raged on, Y/N was on the edge of her seat, nails digging into her palms whenever Harry took a brutal hit or made a heart-stoppingly risky play. At one point he got absolutely leveled by a linebacker twice his size, his helmet bouncing sickeningly off the turf.The roar of the crowd faded into the background as Y/N watched in horror as Harry's body slammed violently into the turf. She felt her heart stop as he didn't immediately get back up after the brutal hit.

"Harry!" she screamed, her voice drowned out by the gasps of the other spectators. 

The medical team rushed out onto the field as Harry lay unmoving. Y/N's hands shook with fear as she watched them carefully roll him onto a backboard and load him into the ambulance. She felt tears streaking down her cheeks as the ambulance pulled away, sirens blaring.

After what felt like an eternity, she finally received word that Harry was going to be okay. The doctors said he had suffered a severe concussion and possible spinal injury from the whiplash of the hit. He would need weeks of rest and recovery.

Y/N rushed to the hospital, desperate to see him. When she entered his room, her heart broke at the sight of Harry's battered body hooked up to various machines, a cervical collar immobilizing his neck.

"Harry..." she whispered, taking his hand gently in hers. "I'm so sorry."

Harry's eyes fluttered open at the sound of her voice. "Y/N? You're here..."

"Of course I'm here, you idiot," she tried to joke, blinking back more tears. "I was so worried about you."

A small smile tugged at his bruised lips. "I'll be okay, love. Harry is a thick skull, remember?"

Y/N rolled her eyes but couldn't help grinning at his terrible joke. "Don't scare me like that again, Styles. I don't know what I'd do without you."

A look of tenderness crossed Harry's face that made Y/N's breath catch in her throat. But before either could say anything further, the doctor entered to check on Harry's condition.

***

Over the next week, Y/N diligently stayed by Harry's side in the hospital. She helped feed him, kept him company, and supported him through the difficult early recovery stages. Harry quickly grew restless being cooped up, but every time he tried to get out of bed against doctor's orders, Y/N was there to scold him.

"You heard what the doctor said, Harry. You need to rest and let your body heal properly," she chastised him one day as he tried to get up.

Harry groaned in frustration. "But I'm going stir crazy in this damn bed! I feel fine, Y/N, honestly."

"No, you don't," Y/N said firmly. "You could have had a serious spinal injury. You're lucky it wasn't worse. Now lie back down before I get the nurses to strap you in."

Grumbling, Harry reluctantly complied, though he continued to hate being so confined and immobile. Little did Y/N know, he was already hatching a plan.

A few days later, Y/N arrived at the hospital only to find Harry's bed empty. Her heart leapt into her throat as she rushed to the nurses' station in a panic.

"Where is he? Where's Harry Styles?" she demanded.

The nurse gave her an apologetic look. "I'm sorry, he checked himself out against medical advice earlier today."

"What? No, he can't have!" Y/N cried. She knew immediately where he would have gone.

Sure enough, when she ran across campus to the football practice field, she found Harry standing on the sidelines in his gear, acting as if nothing had happened. White hot fury blazed through her veins.

"Harry!" she yelled, storming toward him as the first raindrops began to fall. "What the hell do you think you're doing?"

Harry turned with a cocky grin as he saw her approach. "There's my favourite nerd. What's got your panties in a twist, love?"

"You insufferable asshole!" Y/N exploded, not caring that they had an audience of his confused teammates. "The doctor said you needed weeks of rest and recovery! You could have permanently injured your spine!"

Harry rolled his eyes. "Relax, babe, I feel great. Probably just overreacted with that whole backboard and neck brace nonsense."

"Are you kidding me right now?" Y/N seethed, hands balling into fists at her sides. Rain began pouring down around them, quickly soaking them both, but she didn't care. "You're incredible, you know that? You have zero self-preservation! No regard for your own safety and well-being!"

"That's a bit dramatic, don't you think?" Harry scoffed, though his casual demeanor faltered slightly under her furious glare.

"Dramatic? You could've been paralyzed, Harry! Doesn't that mean anything to you?" Her voice broke with frustrated tears. "Don't you understand how terrified I was watching you lying there, not moving? I thought...I thought I might lose you."

Something flickered across Harry's features then. His cavalier mask slipped for just a moment, allowing a flash of guilt and tenderness to shine through that sent Y/N's heart lurching treacherously. Then it was gone, the wall snapping back into place.

"Well, I'm right as rain now, so you can quit your worrying," he said gruffly, turning his back on her.

That was the final straw for Y/N. She grabbed his arm and whirled him around to face her, not caring that they were getting drenched by the downpour.

"You're so fucking reckless with yourself, Harry! Like you have zero self-preservation or even an ounce of common sense! Do you have any idea how scary that was to see you lying there, not moving? How I thought..." Her voice hitched, throat growing too tight to continue as burning tears pricked the corners of her eyes.

Through the rapidly blurring vision, Y/N registered Harry staring, chest heaving like she'd actually winded him with her outburst. His hands hung frozen at his sides, knuckles going white as he watched her come completely unraveled. And still she wasn't finished.

"You can't just keep putting yourself in danger like that! Pulling stupid fucking stunts and flipping off your own safety like it doesn't matter! Because it does, Harry. It matters so much to...to me," she finished in a thick whisper, finally allowing a tear to escape and streak down her flushed cheek.  

A weighted silence stretched between them, Y/N struggling to regain her ragged breathing as Harry continued gaping at her, utterly shocked by her reaction. Waves of tension rippled through the small space separating them.

Finally, after what felt like an eternity but was probably only seconds, Harry seemed to recalibrate. His expression went utterly blank for a beat before, out of nowhere, his eyes hardened into flashing jade. When he spoke, his tone was laced with a chilling detachment.  

"Why?"

Y/N blinked owlishly. "W-What?"

"Why the fuck do you care so much, huh?" Harry exploded, eyes flashing as he aimed his scathing hostility directly at Y/N. "Last I checked, I'm not your boyfriend or your family. I'm just some dumb jock you study with, right?"

Y/N flinched at the biting sarcasm, feeling tears prick her eyes anew at his harsh dismissal. But Harry was on a roll, fists clenching and unclenching as he visibly wrestled with...what? Anger? Fear? She couldn't tell, but his next words sliced deep regardless.

"So why do you get to flip out and pass judgment every time I take a hit, huh? You think I don't know how to handle myself out on that field?"

"That's not what I-"

"No, clearly you don't think I have any sense of self-preservation or whatever psychobabble bullshit diagnosis you want to armchair next!" Harry barreled over her attempted protest, voice rising in a sharp crescendo. 

He took a menacing step closer, using his full height to loom over her in a move that likely would've been intimidating...if his eyes didn't look so pained and conflicted behind that mask of bitter anger. "Tell me, Y/N - what gives you the right to freak out like that, huh? To look at me with those scared eyes like you have any claim over whether I live or die or-"

"Because I love you, dammit!" The confession exploded from Y/N with the force of a meteor strike.

A stunned silence fell over the field as Harry gaped at her, mouth hanging open in shock. Even the rain seemed to pause in the heavy tension between them.

After several moments where Y/N felt her panic rising, Harry finally found his voice again. "You...you what?"

Y/N took a shuddering breath, bracing herself. She had come too far to back down now.  

"I love you, Harry," she repeated, slower and more sure this time. "I have for a long time, you idiot. But you're always so reckless and careless 'bout your own safety. You take stupid risks and shrug it off like getting hurt is no big deal!"

She stepped closer, feeling tears mingling with the raindrops on her cheeks. "Don't you understand? The thought of you being seriously injured, or worse...it terrifies me. Because I couldn't handle losing you. You mean everything to me."

Harry continued staring at her, eyes blown wide and lips parted as if her confession had utterly short-circuited his brain. Y/N pressed on, needing to finally unleash all the feelings she had kept bottled up for far too long.

"I love your stupid jokes and your kind heart. I love how passionate you are about football, even if it drives me mental sometimes. I love the way you always smell like sandalwood and make me feel so safe when I'm with you. I'm in love with every obnoxious, laddish, reckless part of you and I can't keep ignoring it anymore."

She let out a wet chuckle, wiping futilely at her drenched face, her hands still shaking. "So yeah, that's why I care, you absolute wanker. That's why seeing you get hurt destroys me every single time, because the thought of being in a world without Harry Styles in it is just too much for me to bear!"

The words hung heavy in the rain-soaked air between them. Y/N watched Harry open and close his mouth a few times, clearly struggling to find a response. For once, his swagger and cockiness had completely deserted him as her feelings poured over him in an unstoppable tide.

Just when the silence was becoming too much for Y/N to bear, Harry finally seemed to find his voice again.

"You...you love me?" he rasped out, the disbelief and wonder evident in his tone. "Like, you're in love with me?"

Y/N felt her cheeks flush hot despite the cold rain. She gave a small nod, unable to meet his intense gaze. Her heart was thundering so loudly in her ears, she barely registered the shouts and hoots coming from Harry's teammates who had witnessed the whole emotional outburst.

"Shut it, you wankers!" Harry barked over his shoulder, never taking his eyes off Y/N.

In two long strides, he closed the distance between them until they were mere inches apart. Y/N's breath caught in her throat as Harry reached up with one hand to gently cup her jaw, tilting her face up toward his.

"Y/N..." he murmured, emerald eyes searching hers intently. "Why didn't you ever say anything?"

She let out a shaky laugh, leaning into his touch despite herself. "And ruin our friendship if you didn't feel the same way? I couldn't risk that, Harry. You mean too much to me."

Something blazing and tender flickered across Harry's face at her confession. Slowly, giving her every chance to pull away, he leaned in until their foreheads were resting together. Y/N shivered at the intimate proximity, at the way his familiar woodsy scent surrounded her completely.

"You daft woman," he murmured, the words fanning warmly across her lips and making her shiver for an entirely different reason. "Don't you know there's nothing I want more than for you to be my girlfriend? To be able to love you the way you deserve?"

Y/N's eyes fluttered closed at that, her heart feeling fit to burst from her chest. She had spent so long forcing herself not to hope, not to read into the heated glances and lingering touches she shared with Harry. Could he truly feel the same earth-shattering connection she did?

Her eyes blinked open again at the feeling of Harry's calloused thumb brushing reverently across her rain-soaked cheek. He was staring at her with such naked adoration and longing that it stole the breath from her lungs.

"I'm so bloody gone for you, Y/N," he confessed roughly. "Have been for ages now, if I'm being honest. Thought maybe I was imagining things between us or reading too much into it since I couldn't fathom someone as incredible as you wanting a mug like me."

Y/N opened her mouth to protest, to reassure him that she wanted every infuriatingly charming part of him, but Harry pressed on before she could get the words out.

"Then today, hearing how scared you were when I got laid out...how you thought you could lose me?" He shook his head slowly, curls dripping rivulets of rainwater down the sharp planes of his face and throat. "Don't know how I didn't see it before, love. The way you care about me, put up with all my shite...it's because you love me. Isn't it?"

It wasn't really a question, more like Harry was testing the words out for the first time and savoring the way they sounded. A thrill went through Y/N at getting to be the one to put that Look of rare, hushed awe on his handsome face for once.

"Yes, Harry," she answered anyway, both hands coming up to cradle his beloved face. "I'm desperately in love with you. The good, the bad, the reckless...all of it."

A crinkly-eyed grin stretched across Harry's lips then, brighter and more vibrant than Y/N had ever seen before. He wasted no more time closing that minuscule distance between them, capturing her mouth in a searing, all-consuming kiss.

Y/N gasped against his lips as the dam finally broke, months of too-long denied want and need bubbling over in heated waves. Harry's hands slid into her soaked hair, angling her head to deepen the embrace as he licked hungrily into her mouth. Y/N clung to him just as fiercely, fingernails scraping against his scalp and shoulders as if trying to physically pull him closer.

They were both panting harshly by the time they wrenched apart, sharing the same air in the infinitesimal space between their swollen mouths. Y/N felt drugged by the glazed, predatory darkness swimming in Harry's blown pupils,by the intimate glide of their rain-drenched bodies.

"Fucking finally," he growled against her lips before diving back in, one large hand splaying possessively across the small of her back.

Y/N hummed in ardent agreement, getting lost in his dizzying taste and scent and touch once more.  It felt like a cosmic star had been reborn between them, the force of their crashing inevitability obliterating all the hurt and confusion from before.

Neither was sure how long they stayed like that, trading desperate, drugging kisses amongst the pouring rain. But eventually, Harry pulled away just enough to nose his way along Y/N's jaw, lips dragging hotly up to her ear.

"Let's get out of this downpour, hmm?" he husked, teeth grazing her shell and making her shudder. "Got some making up to do for being such a blind tosser."

Y/N pulled back just enough to catch the incandescent fire blazing in his darkened gaze. Her breath hitched at the onceiled promise flickering there, at the tips of his wicked fingers already slipping beneath the drenched hem of her top.

It seemed she wasn't the only one who had been harboring some pent-up longing and hunger.

Still, there was one loose end she couldn't resist tugging before allowing Harry to whisk them away...  "Does this mean you're finally going to start taking better care of yourself?" she asked archly, arching one pointed brow. "No more stupid, reckless stunts for my idiotically brave footballer?"

Harry audibly groaned, dropping his forehead dramatically against her clavicle as his hands flexed with bruising force against her hips.

"Whatever you want, love," he conceded gruffly. "No more injuries or shite, I swear it. Now can we please get the fuck out of here before I embarrass myself further by ravishing you in the mud right in front of my teammates?"

Y/N gave a squeak of surprise as Harry abruptly ducked to gather her up in his arms, hitching her legs around his waist in one fluid movement. He sealed his wicked promise with another lingering, molten kiss that left her head spinning.

"Now, where were we..." he growled darkly before striding determinedly off the field, Y/N clinging just as fiercely in his embrace.

The teammates' raucous catcalls and laughter faded into the rainy background as Y/N tucked her face into the curve of Harry's neck, savoring his familiar sandalwood and smoke and the feeling of being wrapped in his arms at last.

She was never letting him go again. Not if she had any say in it.

♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡~~~♡

tell me if you like this! please reblog or comment if you like, it makes my heart happy :)

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[3liza]

i saw a contrarian "the web was always shit actually you're just blinded by nostalgia" take on here the other day, presumably by someone under the age of 30, and i really disagree. im sorry "enshittification" is such a cringe word and i know we're all tired of it, but just speakinf for myself it describes a real process that i watched happen in real time.

and it's not that 90s-00s internet was unambiguously "good", because it wasnt, but there was a period around the web2 era where there was a really precarious balance of factors that produced an internet that was so easy and so much fun it was doomed to decay. i think the factors were probably too numerous for me to be aware of all of them, and many of those factors were financial/economic and linked to various dot com bubbles, but a few big ones that affected me directly were "normal, non-nerd people who were actually online were confined to walled gardens (Yahoo, AOL, basic email apps) which kept them off of the larger internet and it was very difficult for them to escape" and "'nerd culture' itself was not yet mainstreamed by Disney and other mass corpo buyins" (it is impossible to describe to anyone who wasnt there, but knowing literally anything about Star Wars was extremely niche until approximately the 2010s) and of course the major one was that while social networks existed in a primordial form (Livejournal, Myspace, et al), they were heavily influenced by factors 1 and 2 which just made them a considerably different experience. so a bunch of shit factors were not yet in place, but a bunch of the good stuff about online had already been established, and search engines were functioning better than they ever would again. it's not revisionist or reactionary or nostalgic to observe and state that, it's just true.

smartphones, surveillance, user cookies, and the gradual destruction of defenses against data gathering despite massive resistance developed unstoppably after this, i think it's pointless to lay the blame on users for any of this. you have to spend so much energy and acquire so much expertise to avoid being shunted into the Facebook meat grinder, my personal frustrations with the average civilian internet user notwithstanding, and the capitalist extraction machine is so powerful, that im not sure personal choice can even be considered a serious factor in any of this

[mariuspompom]

The level of gaslighting is so high in this fandom that someone who is not familiar with the actual story will think "Targnation" is a bunch of weird fangirls obsessed with toxic blond men. Meanwhile what defines most "targ stans" normal asoiaf fans who are not pretentious holier-than-thou nerds is merely the belief that:

Dany tries her best at using the enormous power she has for good and it will be really cool to see her take her home back, unite the kingdoms against a common threat and instigate a positive, radical institutional and structural change. This is a very hopeful arc that fits into the romantic theme of asoiaf and contrasts nicely with the nihilistic/grim-dark perspective of the show (and the show's dudebro fanbase).

Rhaenyra was usurped and burned alive because she was a woman. If she was more conforming to Westerosi norms she would have still been usurped. If she was a man and much worse in political skill or character, she wouldn't have had that fate. Her behavior/flaws/decisions had little to no effect on her demise. It was misogyny pure and simple that caused the dance. This is a very nice foreshadowing for Dany being the last descendant of that house, the one who brought back the dragons, and the one destined to save the world in the war for the dawn.

Rhaegar Targaryen was not conceived by the author as a Machiavellian pedophile but as a positive role model for Daenerys contrasting with Aerys and Viserys and kind of prophet-character foreshadowing Dany and Jon's arrival and role in the war for the dawn which is what the book series is all about as per 1) the title (which he gave to the book) and 2) the very first page of the book.

Jon will probably give a fuck about his parentage and he will probably want to connect to his Targaryen father and family in some way. Which will probably happen through his relationship with Dany.

Like that's literally it. For some reason all of the above ended up being controversial in online spaces, as if we're part of a weird and sinister conspiracy theory and saying those things suddenly gets us in the "oh oh, targ stan alert" zone . Ahm, that's not targ stan bias that's kinda what the book series called asoiaf is all about, but you do you!

[flamingbluepanda]

Gallavich Week 2025 - Sports

@gallavichthings I bet yall thought I was dead 😁😁😁 i liiiive, and this ended up being... much more Gallagher family than gallavich, so if you don't wanna take this thats totally valid lol.

Anyway, enjoy this ficlet! I love you all!

~~

It was actually Carl who suggested that they start an annual kickball game. They didn't have an annual family reunion of any sort -- they didn't need one when they saw each other literally every week -- but Carl is the one who says they need some sort of annual event.

The second thing he says is “Mickey is banned from playing in the annual kickball game.”

Mickey, with a piece of fried chicken in hand, doesn't complain.

“What the fuck? Why?” Ian asks.

“You've played video games with him, he's insanely competitive!” Carl complained.

“Didn't you literally develop a crush on him after he pissed on second plate at little league?” Lip asked.

“That was a political statement, the other team were a bunch of bitches.” Mickey said.

“I'm not playing if Mickey can't play.” Ian huffed.

“That's also fine, you're like, 10 times more physically fit than all of us, playing sports with you is exhausting.” Debbie said.

“Rude.” Ian grumbled.

“You have to play now, for our marital honor.” Mickey said, still stuffing his face.

“You could at least pretend to be upset that you aren't invited to the family gathering.”

“Oh he's still invited,” Carl grinned, “he gets to be ref.”

The table fell silent, and then, with growing excitement, Liam whispered “We're all gonna die.”

“But it'll be glorious.” Ian said.

~~

The first annual Gallagher kickball game arrives in the heat of June, in a shitty old baseball diamond that they did not spend any money or time to try and book.

“Alright! Points will be awarded based on how the ref and mini ref feel!” Mickey shouted, wearing a pair aviators and a black, sleeveless shirt that said REF in white fabric marker.

“Yeah!” Franny shouted, standing next to him in her matching outfit.

“Did you even bother to Google how to play kickball?” Kevin asked.

“Nope!” Mickey said, then lifted his whistle to his lips and blasted it once. “Play ball!”

The teams were boys versus girls, the refs were biased as fuck -- the boys team got bonus points for hotness (“thanks babe!”) And the girls got bonus points for awesomeness (“mommy loves you franny!”) And both teams got points for unsportsmanlike conduct (“you're supposed to take points away for that, Mickey-” “shut up, Liam, we're winning!”) And Mickey and Franny very happily sat in the shade with their whistles and the babies, shouting random fouls and at one point making Lip go to the “penalty bench” (not a real thing) for being a “fucking nerd” (not a real foul)

In the end, they all laid around the park with lukewarm beers, Franny and Mickey chasing each other with water guns.

Fiona nudged Carl. “This was a good idea.”

Carl grinned at her. “Same time next year?”

“Here here.” The Gallagher siblings said, clinking their bottles together.

In the setting sun, laughter and cheap beer flowed through the air.

It was somehow, perfect.

[littleeyesofpallas]

There was a moment in the past month where it suddenly got really obnoxiously trendy to try to find some new word or idea to describe this shit we're going thru with musk. Calling it new techno feudalism or some shit... And I didn't want to get into it because it's a headache but the thing that kept nagging me about it all was that no one mentioned the Technocracy Movement. Those fucking losers from the 1930s who never quite got their shit together.

"Technocracy" as a concept was some straight up Andrew Ryan, Rapture from BioShock bullshit where a bunch of sci-fi nerds thought it would only make sense for experts in various fields to be the ones controlling government in those fields. And they kinda weren't totally full of shit but they were all notably not experts of anything.

So that turned into The Technocracy Movement which was frustratingly vague sounding and easily mistaken for the concept broadly rather than the specific group of people it actually applied to. They were a bunch of wannabe politicians and industrial robber barons who basically looked at Marx's notion of "seizing the means of production" and decided that if they could monopolize access to the expensive equipment around said means that they could effectively hold a nation's/the world's economy ransom in exchange for political power. Basically they parroted the idea that "the government shouldn't dictate what science and technology can or can't do!" which, on its face is broadly agreeable.... but when they said it what they meant was "the government shouldn't dictate... (the businesses owners should)"

They also nominally wanted to recruit those supposed STEM field experts that the base ideology said should be the ones governing but they never really did, either because they were bad at it or because they were never really trying, who can say?

Anyway these idiots never amounted to shit beyond trying and failing to seize small local political offices in the space between the great depression and WWII, but go figure when the Nazi party took over Germany and did literally everything the Technocracy Movement had theorized to the German national economy, they all very quickly fell in line with their local Nazi movements and were subsequently run off the North American continent. Literally they were so thoroughly rebuffed and challenged, and in Canada actually outlawed as a direct result of being identified as Nazi sympathizers that all their major members just packed up and moved overseas. (Incidentally this is how Elon Musk's mother wound up in South Africa; her father was a member of the Canadian Technocracy Movement and its attempted political party.)

Anyway then they were mostly forgotten except for some videogames and shit that used their flag in various goofy ass althistory settings. Ironically they ALSO appropriated an already well known eastern religious icon, but unlike the Nazi swastika no one remembers the Technocracy Movements lame ass yinyang knockoff

But you know what all this AI horseshit and crypto scam garbage, and the meta verse, has in common? It's the digital version of the Technocracy Movement's ploy to seize control by owning all the tools while both not having to do any of the work and not have to be landed gentry born into an existing landowner monopoly. They just replaced trying to buy all the factory equipment with trying to buy all the fucking graphics cards.

And there's a reason that's where that line is drawn too. Because that legacy of exploitative land owners isn't just a bunch of cliches or left over rhetoric from some bygone era. The biggest economic-political split between the North and South in the US has always been that in the south land was plentiful and cheap and controlling that land meant controlling anything and everything grown or produced or manufactured or living on it. (Except for when you can't which is why these idiots walked us right into the rust belt). And the North by comparison had wallstreet and the emphasis on industry and trade. (that's obviously an oversimplification, but it's about as brief as i can be about it) And the landowners always stuck their nose up at the traders over this because in their simple old fashioned minds nothing abstract could hold more value that something tangible.

Anyway so those idiots damn near shit themselves during the dot com boom and subsequently it's why right-wing techbro idiots are so fixated on this idea of turning the tech industry into this simulated real estate scam. Because there was a whole industry exploding into profitability that they didn't have so much as a foot in the door with, because if it didn't boil down to fleecing someone in a land deal they didn't have a way to control it. But now, a quarter century after the fact those losers are catching up, and they're doing it by trying to flatten the future of the IT industry into the same tired old game they already know how to play.

And now we are where we are with a bunch of goons trying to hold the moving parts of the economy and political machine still and demand we pay them to let go, all while claiming an expertise they do not and never did possess to hide behind. The thing people keep referring to as Techno Feudalism, is just the same pseudo-feudalism that regular actual land owners have been playing at since the civil fucking war. The fact that it includes tech investors now does not make it new or different. It's the same stupid fucking Technocracy Movement bullshit they tried to pull nearly 100 years ago, and you NEED to be able to recognize that it retains every fucking flaw the original had, namely being the complete and total lack of leadership skills and technical expertise.

i don't know who im going on this rant to... it's not really important to anyone. it doesn't change the nature or direction of the discussion at large, it just kind of annoys me that so many people have danced around the subject or struggled to reverse engineer some kind of logic behind the current bullshit musk has been doing as if there isn't a perfectly readily available answer just sitting there. These idiots weren't even able to come up with a new scam, they're trying to turn the whole country into a giant fucking company town That's the kind of economic isolationism they're talking about, there is no economic strength or self sufficiency in it, just the kind of monopolization of people's mundane lives that obliterates any incentive for quality control. And just like the last time people implemented these exact policies and tactics, we are going to get a coast to coast rust belt on the other side of things. We've been here before. It's all the same shit.

[phneltwrites]

Writing tag game!

thank u @tencrimes for the tag 💚

1.How many works do you have on AO3?

159. haha

2. What’s your total AO3 word count?

1359725 (ok actually an aside about this. im pretty consistent it's about 250k a year give or take)

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Right now just YR and adjacent

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

all of these are mdzs fics for wangxian

Love is More Than Telling Me You Want It: my structural inequality, yin imbalance cultivation magnum opus. 99k because I deleted 300 words so it wouldn't hit over 100. It's the first omegaverse fic I wrote and that was a learning curve and nothing I ever write will be this popular again and that's fine. Also an amazing moment in being like i have communicated my intent!!! when a lovely commenter was like hey are you familiar with this feminist theory of the abject and i waslike MY DUDE I AM LITERALLY BUILDING ON THAT YESSSS. anyway nerd moment

Yeah I Know How You Like It: telepathy sex. yes i did write this sort of out of spite because so many people were like haha lan wangji horny jail and then i was lke have you CONSIDERED that the false dichotomy between honourable and shameful desire is what caused lwj to initially reject wwx and live in a state of internal conflict and internalised hatred and only when he was able to be like no i want him and i love him and i respect him and i want to do these things to him was he able to actually love wwx and be loved in return. also. it's hot.

your persuasions: yeah big dick fic with all the programming jokes

the earthquake in the room: toast fic! what a... experience posting this fic was. anyway uni au engineer/literature student romance

wild for your skin: cnc pwp. glad it found its people

5. Do you respond to comments?

Yes! Barring some unforeseen circumstance. I know a lot of people don't and there's no one right way but it's important to me to try, i write fic because we're all in the space together and commenting and responding to comments is how I stitch the fabric of fandom

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

I don't think I write angsty endings as a rule... also trying to answer these I keep going through my ao3 like i wrote that??? i have no memory of this place

maybe my Eleanor/Tahani from The Good Place fic which ends with them together (yay) but the situation is that they are still struggling with the loss of Chidi's memories and his love and also that they haven't fixed the afterlife.

NO WAIT it's the John Wick fic I wrote about Helen because it ends with her deciding she'll help John Wick get out of the life (I made her chief Operator in this fic) but WE know as readers that she dies later.

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

mmm maybe my yr post-s3 fluff fic where they picnic by the lake and are full of joy and happiness

8. Do you get hate on fics?

I get so much more love on my fic than anything else. And a lot of people who were brave and wrote their first comments which can be super intimidating.

9. Do you write smut?

yeah :) i like to write holistic life fic

10. Do you write crossovers? What’s the craziest one you’ve written?

yes! I also write fusions. My craziest crossover was a Princess Bride one where I took Inigo and Fezzik across a bunch of fandoms including Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries and Pacific Rim

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Had them reposted on wattpad but no one's claimed them to be theirs as far as i know

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

Yes! oh hm looks like there's no easy way to see which ones have translations...

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

Yes, twice! One beach volleyball pwp (the one time the beach volleyball was literal and not a metaphor) and one Leverage fic. Both experiences were totally different because the pwp we wrote together on voice chat, so that was simultaneous writing and the Leverage fic was done async, by drafting sections and then rewriting them and reorganising them.

yes, that's right. smut written on voice chat.

14. What’s a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

My avatar/pacific rim fusion... I love that fic, love the worldbuilding, lost my fandom love right before the last chunk of plot and haven't gone back. I dream of it though. They were finally gonna drift together.

15. What are your writing strengths?

I think my writing strengths are extended metaphors, smut, and. yeah i guess that's the set. Wait. Worldbuilding. i dunno. i don't think i have strengths...

16. What are your writing weaknesses?

My sentences are really short and that can make the writing choppy.

I'm also working on my pacing I like a fic that clips along but right now my fic can feel like being strapped to the top of a high speed train and I'd like a bit more breathe in there, but I'm not really sure how

17. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

this is such an odd question like sure? if it's fun? ok actually i DO have thoughts on this if the characters are already speaking that language and then words are sprinkled in I think that breaks immersion but also. do what you want. I do that myself with pet names sometimes. like sure i studied some philosophy of translation stuff but fundamentally i don't care i am here to make macrame.

18. First fandom you wrote for?

Leverage! The first fic i wrote is up on ao3 "The Offside Trap Job"

19. Favorite fic you’ve written?

I think it's falling til 4 a.m. which is my 90s Seattle radio host/barista wangxian au. I had a really specific vibe of longing and disconnect that I wanted to capture and I think I did. Also I did a lot of 90s research and got told it felt right so that felt nice. idk it's a really personal one despite it not being about my life. But sometimes you're far from the people that used to be your people but you can listen to them talking and it's the thinnest of lifelines.

tagging @in-amor-veritas @grounded-parasocial @gulliblelemon @malinowaj @caramelpenguin @bigalockwood @enjoythesilentworld

[nerdthatsiriuslylovesteaxx]

Never leave me

Nico heard a soft knock at his door, he glanced down at his watch, 11:27, no reasonable person would be here, alas Will Solace never did have a habit of being reasonable.

"Neeks, we're having a Star Wars marathon, right now, I bought snacks." He laughed to himself as he went to open the door.

"What happened to getting a reasonable amount of sleep Solace?"

"You weren't sleeping either way and you need to watch Star Wars."

"Oh gods, this can't be good..." Will ruffled his hair and kissed him on the forehead, "Wait, how the fuck did you get here without getting murdered by harpies?"

"I may or may not have bribed them; also language." He said in a teasing manor while they walked into the Hades cabin,

"What's so amazing about this series anyways? Isn't it just a bunch of guys fighting in space with glowing swords?"

"How dare you, this is the most incredible thing you will ever see in your life, trust me."

"See that's impossible, Harry Potter exists."

"Why the fuck have you watched Harry Potter but not Star Wars?"

"Who needs to be 'languaged' now?"

"Oh shush, I just found out my boyfriend is uncultured."

"Oh shut up you little nerd."

"Little is strong coming from you, and can I just remind you how long you spent talking about Mythomagic last night?"

"At least that's actually useful, unlike glowing space sticks."

"Harry Potter...? Literally just rip off Star Wars."

"How!?"

"You'll see." He started the movie on his laptop, placing it on a small wooden table along with the all the snacks he bought. "You'll love it."

"We'll see William, we'll see." He sat down next to him, lying his head on his chest, Will wrapped his arm around him, holding him close.

***

"This is so boring."

"Shut up, the starts a bit slow, it gets good at the forty minutes mark."

"I'll believe it when I see it."

***

"Mid, at best."

"You do realise there's eight more of those." After that realisation Nico started aggressively throwing popcorn at him, leading to them pausing the movie and having a mini popcorn fight, ending with Will's surrender solely because he wanted to finish the movie.

***

"HE'S HIS DAD? WHAT THE ACTU-" He put his hand of the Ghost King's mouth,

"Shhhhhh, people are trying to sleep."

"I don't give a fuck Solace, what the fuck was that?"

***

"Neeks, that's the end of the original trilogy." He waited for a few seconds before realising the son of Hades had fallen asleep in his arms, carefully he picked him up, making sure to not wake him as he layed him in his bed and slipping in next to him. "Goodnight Angel, I love you." He whispered, pressing a kiss to his forehead before falling asleep next to him, hugging him as they both slept.

________

@midnightisday2 happy birthday, here's some fluff, just for you :)

Also happy pride moth everyone <3

You're all loved and I will hunt down anyone who has made you think otherwise

[tobiasdrake]

Dragon Ball Daima 01x13 - Surprise

And we're back. I think episode 12 was probably the halfway point for the series?

And holy shit. This is just gonna be non-stop bitching 'cause this is hands-down the worst episode of Dragon Ball Daima. I genuinely cannot imagine a worse episode than this existing.

This is worse than that time Gomah and Degesu spent half an episode watching Dragon Ball Z and nerding out over how much better of a show it was.

This guy's so fucking screwed. Gomah's never been a credible opponent, and now he's got both Dr. Arinsu and the Dragon Team gunning for him.

Degesu's reaction to shutting down Warp-sama is surprising. He legit acts like this is the most unthinkably vile thing anyone's ever done.

There's a bit of metaphysical whiplash going on here where it's like.

Oh shit! They're gonna, like, attack Warp-sama or kidnap Warp-sama or--

Oh, no. Warp-sama's just a machine. There's a switch in the basement they can use to turn Warp-sama on or off with at any time. It's fine.

BUT turning Warp-sama off is, like, the most heinous thing ever. Like, even for a bunch of fascists in the demon world, THIS is a bridge too far. How DARE.

Neva over here still trying to make krakens seem menacing after we already beat one's ass last episode.

It's fine. He never opens his eyes so he might not have seen that.

Yeah, crashing makes sense. Popping into Makai #2 just to grab the Dragon Ball and then skedaddling did seem a bit too easy. We already visited the former home of the Namekians. This is gonna be the former home of the Glind, then?

Yeah, but we've defeated two Tamagami. I think we'll be fine.

Bulma and Pansy nerding out about tech together is the best part of this episode. I haven't even finished the episode yet as I say this. I just know nothing's gonna top this.

^_^

The mega-hamsters are adorable and I kind of love them. XD But also they're only a threat because Vegeta's the only one actually willing to fight them.

I really hope this is going somewhere because we're halfway through the episode and this detour has, so far, been utterly inconsequential.

A "stranded in bear country" type episode generally serves the purposes of forcing a small number of characters into a tight situation where they'll have to interact with one another, building their dynamic with each other or forging one anew.

But we have the entire cast stranded in bear country and all we're doing is walking around going, "Sure is bear country around here."

Man, they really do think "what if things were very big" is in and of itself, interesting enough to carry an entire episode premise.

Over two minutes of this episode is just watching this kid sit down and have lunch while everyone goes "OH MY GOD IT EATS LUUUUUUUUUNCH!?!?!?!?"

Toei. You do not have a manga to keep pace with. You do not need to insert filler.

Just punch it really hard, Goku.

Thanks, Vegeta. You're the only character not pretending to be threatened by this stupid filler plot, and I appreciate you for that.

Sure, that might as well happen.

I mean, you're using 0.25% of your speed right now, and also you can teleport. But sure.

(sigh) Do I even need to say it?

Goku is choosing to lose this altercation.

At least Vegeta's kicking things up to a Super Saiyan form. He's not faring much better but, like, I can believe he's actually trying to win. That's what's important. It's not about the results, it's about selling the idea that this character is committed to the task that they're doing.

I dunno. Maybe you should just teleport and not be in this situation.

Maybe you should just teleport and not be in this situation.

God, we had a whole episode re-establishing Goku's ability to teleport and everything. This is literally the one and only character in the entire cast who can't be put in predicaments like this.

And now he's free-falling into a bag while screaming for his life.

This character who can both fly and teleport is trapped in free-fall and screaming for his life.

And it all culminates in a desperate last second dive to save Goku from being crushed, because he refuses to teleport out of IDK sportsmanship or whatever.

This is so boring. It's the first episode of Daima I actually had to force myself to finish because it was unwatchably bad. Absolutely nothing happened. We got lost in bear country and then proceeded to be menaced by bears because we forgot how our powers work.

This would fit right in as an episode of Dragon Ball GT. The first arc, were Trunks has to go Super Saiyan to lift some breaks and everyone keeps forgetting how to fly. That's how bad this is.

[starlitprism]

"That's a Major": My Marcille Degree Rant

OK we're starting with this. Funny right? Yeah.

BUT IT GOT ME THINKING

You know what no one brings up in that story? NO ONE?!

This is just a major. This is a MAJOR! YOU CAN DO IT AT HER ALMA MATER.

It is not HER FAULT that this was available. She went in, saw something interesting and went "COOL" because IT'S A MAJOR. Because apparently this CODIFIED FORM OF STUDY is also just something the elves hate. NOW, it honestly seems to surprise all the characters that this was a MAJOR she could choose but let's be honest here. This is just a reverse of the meme where experts greatly overestimate how much the average person knows about their craft. Of course they don't know. The only one that WOULD know in the story is the impetus for the whole FUCKING PLOT.

She who probably would respond by "yeah I know. That's on the curriculum. I took an intro class" BUT NO. We don't get that because she's too busy being dead or other weird shit partially thanks to that same set of courses. Like, you will notice everyone is super surprised when they bring her back but NOT HER. SHE KNEW. Everyone else is like "look at this unholy abomination" when it's just like a history degree. Seriously though, Falin seems a little surprised and disoriented at first but otherwise seems utterly unfazed at waking up in a blood circle surrounded by a dead dragon's innards.

THAT SAID, I am exaggerating for comedy. Here is what we actually know. In the very next scene in the hot tub, she does note that there was something about the circle that felt wrong to her. So maybe she didn't know her shit about this. Or, maybe she only knew about it academically as related to what Marcille studied and never seen or experienced it in any way. That or somehow Marcille managed to keep a secret from the woman she very obviously adores with her literal everything which I... doubt. Then again, she is Laios' sister so who knows if she carries the same level of general obliviousness (I am also autistic like Laios is so I can just state that outright. We can be fucking OBLIVIOUS at times).

It also goes to show, the elves are idiots. They are so certain that this is so unknown that they have to hunt individuals while there is some professor(s) somewhere just... teaching it. Or at least something related! For, like, a day job! And they never even think to ask "where are all these people learning this" NO. THEY DON'T. THIS IS GONNA KEEP HAPPENING. BECAUSE IT'S JUST AVAILABLE. AND THEY, in their hubris, can't imagine ANYONE EVER having this information BUT THEM. It could just be freely available and everyone knows not to talk about it because the elves got a SPIKE in their collective ass!

Ok, you ask, "but what if it was a secret?" and you know what? Fair. To that I have to say https://tenor.com/view/marcille-best-girl-failure-tantrum-breakdancing-dungeon-meshi-delicious-in-dungeon-gif-7429268588073434370

(The above is a picture and link to a gif of Marcille on her head, kicking her legs wildly because this girl doesn't react normally ever to anything) This. This is Marcille when something happens. She's not subtle. She has never been subtle. She commonly screams her reactions. I call bullshit on secret.

More importantly though, that's not really how education tends to work. People study something and, outside of MAYBE grad school level or PhD level minimum, you largely talk with people who know your subject.

You gotta remember, education is a bunch of nerds who want to talk about their shit. People don't just research something to know it. They research it to publish it and have it peer reviewed even if it's just an assignment they turn into their professor which I guess is like a first step to publishing.

Research is gathered, references found, pointed to, and then showed off. AND IN THE CASE OF PRACTICAL STUDIES, people do it! You got to prove your research was right. Otherwise it's a bunch of potentially useless theory. So if you think Marcille hasn't done SOMETHING like this before, there's no way. She was confident she could do SOMETHING about it. Just saying, I would pay a lot to see the face's on the member of her dissertation committee.

I brought this up with some friends and they mentioned that she might have just studied Dungeon creation and studied Ancient Magic on her own. And fair but then Ancient Magic wouldn't be her specialty would it? At least, except in a very egotistical self estimated way without ANY outside feedback which is a core tenet of education. Unless she was the pre-eminent lone scholar of ancient magic of course but she never goes on about that so i'm going assume that's not the case. Here is what we got from the show

In the show she says "What I specialize in is actually ancient magic which is highly forbidden. It's use is frowned upon but using it to revive Fallin, it's our best option"

When Senshi and Chilchuck, protested she just says "magic doesnt' have morality"

Now I could be wrong but for this wonderfully high-strung woman whose reactions are so so much, this looks practiced and calm. She either has defended this before, was quoting something someone else (like a teacher), or somehow she has suppressed all her beautiful exaggerated weirndess in the midst of ABSURD amounts of stress. Personally, I think Option 2 and 1 are more likely as this is a highly emotional subject for her and her self control is shit.

Like seriously, let's say her alma mater doesn't have a class that teaches ancient magic. Let's say, no one but her knows much of anything. What would happen if someone caught her in the library grabbing strange books that have scraps of ancient magic knowledge in them? She's allowed to be there but she's just so... HER that she would probably jump in surprise and try and justify it while trying NOT to reveal what she is researching. And because she has all the cool of a pickle, EVERYONE in school would know Marcille was up to something.

The above is a picture of Marcille losing her shit from a video titled "Marcille gradually losing her mind for 6 minutes || Dungeon Meshi. The link to it is https://youtu.be/gmY2x8_nnjw

So yeah, there would be rumors. The worst kept secret in the school is Marcille is a bad girl who researches something questionable. To say nothing of the fact that this girl has demonstrated major teacher's pet energy. I would put my money on there being at least one professor there who gets occasional downloads of ancient magic from one of their top students all while they look on going "I can tell no one" unless of course there is an actual program.

FOR MY FINAL POINT I HAVE BUT ONE WORD TO GIVE. Internet

By which I mean, the lack of it. Do you have any idea how hard it is to research something based only on the physical books you have access to in a specific location? IT TAKES AWHILE TO GET ANYWHERE.

That means travel for you or your subject matter and, with something like THIS that could be considered dangerous, you would have to be SO damn careful to make sure you don't get a reputation as "the ancient magic girl." That said, she's a (warning, spoilers) half elf so she has time. SO MUCH TIME. But we know it hasn't been too much time because Falin attended at the same time as her. Falin and her brother did various (failed) things for several years before Marcille showed up at the dungeon. I, at least, don't know how much time passed but they both clearly look to be in their 20s or so to me. Could be wrong due to the art style but that's just my read. At most, SUPER low 30s. Which means, Marcille couldn't have been traveling everywhere taking months and months to cross seas to get specific books for that long. That time would get eaten up so very quickly.

WHICH LEADS US back to the start. And my claim that the simplest most likely explanation IS

This Is

A Major

[annabelle--cane]

just stumbled across your computer literacy posts and as a 14yo gen z kid the whole topic is SO funny to me. i have friends as young as 12 that use a computer regularly. my 11 year old brother is easily the most computer-literate person in my family and helps my mom make powerpoints all the time. i take classes that require me to navigate a desktop computer regularly, and none of my classmates have a problem with it.

the “computer literacy crisis” never actually references or comes from the point of view of real teenagers because it is so wildly blown out of proportion. people forget that high schoolers and middle schoolers also grew up with family computers and that a lot of us are more comfortable drawing, writing, etc. on computers than phones.

and like I am 100% sure there are Youths who don't really know how to use computers, plenty of them have commented on my posts, but, I think crucially here, there are also adults who don't know how to use computers. there are school districts that never had computer classes in areas where most people can't afford computers but can maybe swing for phones and tablets, I really do not think this is a generation thing, I think it's about region and class.

related sidebar: I keep getting people on my poll telling me that asking about youth computer literacy on tumblr will skew results because outlier nerdy kids are on tumblr and nerds know how to use computers. the adults on tumblr are also nerdy outliers. we're a bunch of tech obsessed weirdos who think things like "it's easy to forget that the average person probably only knows that firefox is the only usable browser." I'm willing to bet that there are comparable levels of tech illiteracy across all age groups, but my professors who put "google" into search bars aren't on tumblr to talk about it.

[emblemxeno]

Honestly, is it me or has my experience with Tumblr FE (especially Fates-concerned) has been so much more pleasant and welcoming than literally everywhere else with FE on curative (i.e. non-transformative) fandoms? FEtube, Serenes Forest, GameFAQs and Reddit FE are all filled with smug, mentally-domineering nerds who will flip out if you call Edelgard a fascist or play in ways that aren't the most ridiculously-optimized playstyle imaginable, but shriek at anyone who dares express a likeness for Fates's story (like I, a tgirl who related to Conquest heavily ESPECIALLY post-2024, where it really became poignant on making the best of a dark situation... thanks Trump (/s), and thank Christ I live in a hard blue state) out of a fear of it "corrupting" the fandom. Like, they have absolutely zero fucking chill and even less ability to apologize for berating and verbally abusing fans for expressing the "wrong" opinion. I thought it was normal as I was in the alt-right rabbit hole in 2014-2017 before Fates pulled me out of it, and even afterwards I heard so many nasty things of pre-porn exodus Tumblr that I thought it was no better. But actually seeing it... made me realize it didn't need to be like this. It doesn't need to be like this.

It's only like this because it's, at the end of the day, a bunch of physically-weak nerds who feel outcast from greater society and fiercely want to gatekeep and gaslight their perspective into being normal. I even fell off with many "good" FEtubers during this time like Excelblem, who was originally funny for his playthroughs gone wrong, but over time revealed himself as a particularly selfish and yet another one of the people who who shit on analysis for Fates again. So, it really made me realize just how much of an abusive relationship the fandom is, and none of it is normal.

I just want to thank you for the analysis. Hearing I'm not alone in how I felt and that most people actually do get it and are just shoved out by a bunch of insecure manchildren really did wonders for my mental health. xoxo

Awwww, thank you so much for the sweet words, it means a lot.

Tumblr itself definitely has less skin in the game when it comes to this stuff compared to the FE centric forums, youtube channels, and everything on Reddit (which is echo chamber city, them damn upvotes lol).

Also the way this site works allows for long form content and getting to spill a stream of thoughts about something.

And I hear you on the 'making the best of a bad situation' part, because having Fates to play during Trump's first administration helped soften the blow and let me find peace and hope for a better world. I wish my 3DS wasn't dead so I can play it again now that we're in the exact same situation.

But yeah, at some point, something's got to give when it comes to fandom stuff. There are so many voices flying around at once, and not only does it become overstimulating and overwhelming, people really just don't like dissent on what is agreed upon as common knowledge. And they don't approach it in a way that is amicable, it's usually almost interrogative and accusatory, as if you just admitted to stealing their belongings.

It's a branch of what is so fucking easy to fumble with social media, in that there's a barrier that people believe subconsciously allows them to act like dickwads. No, there's still people on the other end of this conversation, just because it's online doesn't mean it's "less bad" to act a fool when it comes to this stuff. Aren't we all here to have fun talking about this thing we all like?

Anyway, thanks again for the kind words!

[flightyalrighty]

came from the other side….saw a ongoing thread about your comic (b u l l e t s & s h o e s) ….as much I like canon as the next guy, I get lowkey angry when they try to hard apply that logic in…a comic that has Sonic covered in guts and blood of his baby brother…like buddy we are WAYYY past canon at that point! Literally just have fun with your story, not everything has to be 100% explained and we all have our own headcanons and takes on said things. 👍 Also get some rest, looks like you need that.

LOL OH YOU SAW ALL THAT HUH

Yeah so like the thing about me is that I care way more about Sonic and Shadow as characters than, say, well. Weapons? I know there's that DBZ influence and all but I do NOT care about power levels. I Do Not Care about whether or not Sonic can slam himself fist-first into a guy at the speed of blammo whammo and explode his head, like I don't care! I don't! I don't!!

So anyone over Yonder in the bird space arguing with me about how Sonic is sooo so strong and could beat up all the G.U.N. soldiers and rescue Shadow all on his own and explode all the bugs with his mind, stakes me damned, just... Immediately lose my interest. Like. That's just so boring to me.

Who cares about power levels. This is a horror comic about grief, not a shonen manga where Sonic's guaranteed to save the day in the end. It's exhausting to do a bunch of research to see what is and isn't possible only for a buncha nerds to come sauntering up trying to argue why the story shouldn't happen because Sonic's the strongest actually and Shadow's immune to being sliced in half with a table saw.

I understand this is inspired by an All Ages series, but boy does it sure seem like. Idk. Juvenile? My dad can beat up your dad kinda shit? Can Superman Kill Goku If He Punches Him In The Throat At Max Strength? I don't care. I really don't. I just wanna tell a story that stirred some personal feelings in me, and that came from a lot of internal shit already that came spilling out.

Is it a little silly to say I want my bug zombie sonic the hedgehog story a little more grounded than what we're used to? Maybe. But that's okay. I'm making what I wanna make and what I wanna see, and THAT is what matters.

Also I'd LOVE to rest but if I rest I'm gonna have to crunch next Wednesday again. I'm trying so hard to break free from the cycle. God. God, the cycle. Someone's gotta kill that witch.

[solid-six]

get to know me

tagged by @judyalvqrez! thankss!

Favorite colors: Greens are usually my favorite, but my closet is almost entirely black. Late-blooming goth stuck in f-ing Florida.

Last song: Earlier I was listening to MOTHERLESS by Killer Mike!

Currently reading: Working on The Trinity of Fundamentals by Wisam Rafeedie. I was supposed to be part of this bi-weekly reading group here locally that have been meeting and discussing it per-chapter, but it took so long to ship to me I missed the first few sessions and now I'm way behind...

Currently watching: My partner and I have been verrrrry slowly trying to catch up on Arcane. We'd seen the first season when it came out, and we rewatched it and are now like...4 episodes into the second season? Idk, it's really pretty, but like...I may be in the minority here, but I can't stand all the council-y 'behind closed doors' stuff, it's sooo boring! They're like 'hey, you want a super slick stylish cyber-/steam-punky show with two dope leads with gatlin guns and bombs and huge gauntlets?' and I'm like HELL YEH and then they're like 'Well 3/4 of every episode is the council scenes from star wars with a bunch of characters steepling their fingers and leering, have fun!' We'll finish it eventually by my gOD lol. Don't kill me, I know ppl are feral over that show and I don't dislike it, it's just A Lot.

Currently craving: Those nerds gummy-clusters, whatever they're actually called. We call it our 'aquarium gravel' lol and I could go for a bag right about now.

Coffee or tea: Lately it's been tea, I'm addicted to the raspberry-hibiscus target-brand tea with honey and lemon, I drink like 4 of them a day. I used to be a HUGE coffee drinker, but sometime over the last few years I stopped being able to enjoy it regularly. But If we're out somewhere that has it, I will ALWAYS get a cafe con leche, and I always end up craving coffee and making some when playing a Remedy game...wonder why that is...

Hobby to try: Honestly, I don't need any more hobbies right now, I'm neglecting the ones I already have! For the new year, I'm making goals of reading more, (used to read voraciously and have only read like...3 or 4 books this whole year?), and working on my sound art stuff, maybe posting some of it?

Current AU: I don't normally have AUs in my head, but what's funny-weird is that literally like a few hours ago I jokingly posted this - but also watched Coraline, (one of my favorite movies Ever), for like the 100th time recently and...

CORALINE IN THE WRITER'S ROOM AU

tagging @fozzieosbourne @greenkngt @variousblarghblanks @the-labyrinth-of-me and @cowboygirlfriends

[the-conversation-pod]

Spring Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows

And we're back! This week we're talking about all of the shows that blended other genres with BL, including mystery, horror, and science fiction. Because only NiNi and Ginny watched everything, we brought Shan and Ginny back to the booth to cover all of the shows. Today we're talking about how Playboyy failed us, 7 Days Before Valentine landed in a specific niche, our reactions to Dead Friend Forever, and the different things we walked away with from Love for Love's Sake.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows 00:02:31 - Playboyy the Series 00:18:42 - 7 Days Before Valentine 00:29:35 - Dead Friend Forever 00:50:03 - Love for Love’s Sake 01:13:39 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 1: Genre Shows 

NiNi

We're literally doing it live, Ben. [Ben laughs]

Shan

Great start. [Ginny and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

We’re keeping that in! We're absolutely keeping that in! [Shan and Ginny laugh] 

Go on ahead, Ben.

Ben

And we're back! This week we are doing our Grab Bag episode. We will be talking about quite a few shows. But first, we have guests.

NiNi

Say ‘hi’ Ginny and Shan. Say ‘hi,’ Ginny. 

Ginny

Hello! 

NiNi

Say hi, Shan. 

Shan

Hi, people!

NiNi

Like Ben said, we're here to do a grab bag. Actually, we're here to do two grab bags. It's a two-parter, fun times. The first part, we're gonna talk about a bunch of genre shows. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a good time. It's always a good time when Ginny and Shan are with us.

Ben

Today we are talking about Playboyy the Series, 7 Days Before Valentine, Dead Friend Forever, and Love For Love's Sake. You may use the timestamps we provide to jump to your relevant section.

NiNi

Look at Ben being a good cruise director. I love it.

00:02:31 - Playboyy the Series

Ben

We begin with Playboyy the Series. Since I did not watch this show, NiNi or Ginny, would you like to describe Playboyy for the people, or do you want me to describe it based on my three episodes’ experience?

NiNi

I feel like this is all you, Ginny, go.

Ginny

Playboyy is a show that tried to be about the complex lives of sex workers and people exploring new thresholds of kink, and instead was simply a hot mess that devolved into several different directions. Did not say what it intended to say—or perhaps intended to say horrible things, we’re not clear on that—and disappointed nearly everybody. How's that?

Shan

Very well done.

NiNi

That is it in a nutshell. Ginny and I watched this to the end. Shan quit. Ben quit way earlier.

Shan

I wanna just give myself credit for hanging in there for a long ass time. I think I made it all the way to, like, episode 9 or 10 before I had to stop.

Ben

I'm just gonna own it right away. I quit at the end of episode 3. I said this is not for me, and I have nothing nice to say. I'm gonna just leave now.

NiNi

You really did. We're here to talk about the genre BLs of the season. And Playboyy technically counts as a, I guess, murder mystery? But ugh. Okay, I'm invoking The Shipper.

Shan

[gasps] Wow.

NiNi

I know we said we're never going to talk about this again, but I am invoking The Shipper.

Ben

Proceed.

NiNi

What a hot fucking mess this was. This show wanted to be about so much and in the end ended up being about nothing. It's offensive. It's sensationalist. I found it bad in a particularly banal, uninteresting way, and I'm mostly upset because when it started—it wasn't great, but it had some ideas. And then those ideas just completely fell by the wayside. 

Listen, guys, I am the sex in story person. This was right up my alley. I don't know if you've ever seen the phenomenal classic Shortbus. Ginny was like, ‘this is giving me Shortbus,’ and I was like, ‘ohh tell me more, I’m seeing it.’ That was maybe episode 4, and by episode 6 I was like, I don't know that it's giving Shortbus. 

I thought it was saying something about sex that it actually wasn't saying because in the end it's all about monogamy and the power of love. Which, yeah, okay, it could absolutely be about that. But that's not what it was sold as. I can't even continue on it. Ginny, you have to take over for me, it's just bad. I don't like it.

Ginny

What you said is key because it wasn't sold as being about monogamy and the power of love. And it's fine for a show to be about that, but if a show is going to give you a bunch of seamy underbelly, kink, sex work, highly stigmatized sexual topics, and then it's gonna come around and being like, but actually monogamy and the power of love is what it's all about, then you are only further stigmatizing those topics. If you put them in, and then you don't land on a positive note with those topics, you're just reinforcing what everybody already thinks about them. 

That is not what the show was sold to us as, and I'm furious about it because I want to see more material that deals honestly with some of the more difficult sexual topics and the more controversial areas of sexuality. This show promised us that, and then it ended up being like, ‘buuut if you're in true love, then all problems are solved, and the kinkiest people are somehow also the evilest, oops, we don't know how that happened.’ And it's just infuriating.

NiNi

I'm not even gonna get into what Playboyy is actually about, because in the end, it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna be straight. There are people who enjoyed this. I was not one of those people. 

Ben

I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask so we can unpack some stuff here. Let's go around the table, starting with Shan. 

When we all signed up to watch Playboyy originally, what were you hoping for based upon the initial promotional materials?

Shan

Oh, this is such a loaded question. Now I have to invoke Only Friends. 

So, Playboyy and Only Friends share a writer. Only Friends, as was very thoroughly discussed on this podcast, also ended with a message reinforcing monogamy and the power of love in a show that claimed to be about something else. And so I went into Playboyy, actually really eager to see another work from this screenwriter, because I wondered if maybe some other things had happened on that show that got in the way of this message that he has been claiming to be trying to put out in the world.

And so I expected, based on the promotional materials, based on the way the folks behind the show were talking about it, I expected this to be very much a sex and kink positive show, very much a show exploring the many different ways that sex and sexual relationships can evolve, can look, trying to also shine some light on the lives and experiences of sex workers. All of that was part of the promotion of the show, alongside the murder mystery aspect. It was never clear to me going in how much about each of those things the show would be. It seemed to be trying to tackle a lot, so I was interested to see how it would weave those things together. And it just didn't really, and it didn't do a lot of those things it was claiming to be doing.

Ben

What about you, Ginny?

Ginny

Very similar to Shan, I expected and hoped for a lot of showcasing of sexual diversity, and as NiNi said, I was hopeful in the first episodes. She and I hung on so long trying to defend what the show might be trying to do. It did look like it was trying to show somebody who was averse, maybe to touch, maybe was asexual, maybe had trauma, we weren't clear. That was an interesting thing to explore. People in sex work for various different reasons. People who were very clear about their kinks and interests. 

And I was hoping for a mature, in-depth exploration that didn't treat sex itself like it was this shocking new frontier, that sort of accepted this is something that's a part of many people's lives and can be treated with seriousness and playfulness at the same time. I did not expect the plot to hold together because there were simply way too many characters, but I at least wanted the core messaging and character development around sexuality to be consistent and interesting and positive. And the longer the show went on, the worse it got in all of those respects.

Ben

So going in, I was expecting there to be some really fun examination about masculine sexuality, and then very quickly I realized the show was doing porn setups as basically just a joke? They weren't really doing with that what we thought they might be. Like, they're introducing porn setups to talk about the inherently artificial nature of porn and the lack of genuine connection happening for men who are projecting their expectations of sex onto the false notions they might be getting from adult content. And that is not what happened. At all, so. I left very quickly because I was like, I don't need this. And I thought their sex ed 101 messages were deeply muddled by some of their own unfortunate choices. 

Speaking of unfortunate choices, let's go around the table again. What was the unfortunate choice that this show made [laughs] that pushed you over the edge and either quit it or decided you hated it by the end?

Shan

I gave it a long time. I really tried with this show. I tried to read some of these deeper themes and messages that both makers of the show and people watching the show were claiming were embedded in the work, and I couldn't find it. I think it was kind of a slow trickle for me of things that just kept adding up, but what might have really been the snapping point for me was what they did with Zouey's storyline. Someone who was maybe sex averse or sex repulsed. I was very much looking forward to development of that as he fell in love with somebody and was trying to work through that. The way that the show resolved that storyline—his falling in love with somebody just made it go away. He just suddenly was fine with sex one day, just like that. That's all it takes, apparently. And then even further down the line in the show, they undid it even further by completely retconning his entire issue and changing the source of it from the beginning. 

But that moment when they just showed him just suddenly, magically being fine with sex through the power of love after what had felt like a setup of a serious sexual dysfunction issue that he wanted to work through, it just felt so disrespectful to me. It was a moment where I was like, ‘Oh, nothing this show is doing matters. It doesn't take any of it seriously. I was silly to trust that it did.’ That was just kind of it for me. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I'm out.

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

There wasn't one moment. It was just a slow decay of trust and interest over time. I think the storyline between First and Soong—first of all, it was badly acted.

Ben

Is First the thermometer boy? 

Ginny and Shan

Yes. [both laugh]

Ben

Yeah, that's—spoiler alert!

Shan

Was that your moment, Ben?

Ben

—that's why I left. [laughs]

Ginny

I hung in with them well past the thermometer. That story could have been really interesting about the complexities of a dom-sub relationship that also has a very real financial angle. They keep being drawn to each other for reasons I did not understand, and the show did not really justify. It could have been such an interesting exploration of a really complex power dynamic, and instead it was just two people taking turns being mean to each other and then senselessly coming back to each other with no kind of nuance or complexity. So frustrating.

Ben

NiNi, did you have a breaking moment with this show that you recall?

NiNi

There are so many moments where I had to push through, like the toe sucking incident, I had to push through. There was a dog food incident, I had to push through that, as well. When I was over it, though, was, the main character is supposedly pretending to be his twin brother, and there were hints along the way that maybe there was no twin and there was maybe a disassociation happening there as this person tries to come to terms with their self-image in the wake of having kinds of sexual experiences that he enjoyed but didn't think he should. And there was a lot to unpack there. But then they showed the twin brother’s dead body, and I was just like, ‘Okay, no, this show is shit.’ I was over it at that point. 

I stayed till the end because as I said to everybody, I wanted my complaints to be specific and comprehensive. But yeah, that was it for me in the end. The fact that they sold it as some sort of psychological deep dive and it ended up being not even a bog standard murder mystery with a cartoon villain.

Ben

I'd like to follow up with something Ginny mentioned in her response. You talked about how this show was a slow betrayal of trust for you. Let's talk about this creative team. 

So with Cheewin and Den, this is their second outing together. How are we feeling about Den and Cheewin as a creative duo?

Ginny

I don't trust Den anymore, which is a shame. He's very, very vocal on social media about the shows he's doing and the way he talks makes it sound like he's coming from this forward thinking, sex positive, ‘Let’s push the boundaries’ way. But then the two shows, as Shan mentioned, Only Friends and Playboyy, just felt so regressive in their ultimate messages, and in how they treated their most boundary pushing characters. So I—with much regret because I was very excited about him as a new voice and a new presence in the scene—fully do not trust him anymore. 

Cheewin I have more grace for because he's got a much bigger resume and he's made some things that I really loved. Secret Crush on You is one of my shows of all time. Why r u? is also a favorite of mine. I am watching Deep Night and I'm curious to see what he's doing with Den's involvement maybe less in this story side of things.

Ben

I'm glad for your answer. I've been dealing with my own version of BL burnout for a while. As you all have gotten here in real time on this show, so I am currently not watching Deep Night, so I've been curious about your reactions as we get deeper into that. I'm tired of getting disappointed around the 50 to 70% mark of these shows and then being grumpy for a month as they stumble their way to the end. I’m about to be like NiNi and just binge shows after they're done.

NiNi

It's a technique that I highly recommend for a lot of shows, actually. Not every show, but a lot of shows.

Ben

Shan, you traditionally used to like to binge shows after they were mostly done. You started watching live because you unfortunately met me.

Shan

[laughs] It's all your fault, bestie.

Ben

Where are you currently on Den, Cheewin, and your general vibe with showrunner teams that have let you down, and engaging with future work?

Shan

I really agree with what Ginny said about Den and Cheewin in particular. Cheewin has a long history. I've really loved some of his work. I've really disliked some of his work. I think that's how it's always gonna be with Cheewin, he's a little bit hit or miss. He tries things and it doesn't always work. But I'm willing to come into each of his new projects with benefit of the doubt to see what he's trying to do. 

With Den, I'm much more wary after these couple projects back-to-back. I'm always wary of creators who speak so much on social media outside of their work to try to shape opinions about it rather than letting the work speak. That has been a wariness that I've had around him from the beginning because he's been very vocal about his active projects, trying to shape and define the fan response to them in a way that I find a bit off-putting. With these projects in particular, I feel like he's been really trying to claim a mantle that he is not actually owning and earning with his work. So yeah, similar to Ginny, I don't really trust him anymore. I will not be live watching any more shows that he's writing, and I'll be waiting to hear from other folks that I trust about whether or not I should be even venturing into them at all.

NiNi

I'm going to give it a 0 which I never give shows. I was actively offended and I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Ben

Ginny, you have any final thoughts about Playboyy you wanna share?

Ginny

No. I want someone to make a good sex show, that's all.

Ben

This show is going to get a DNF from The Conversation. We did not finish it. You don't need to either.

NiNi

And with that, let's move on.

00:18:42 - 7 Days Before Valentine

NiNi 

The next show we're gonna talk about is 7 Days Before Valentine. Wait, so which one of us watched this, was it just me and Ginny? 

Ben 

Yeah, just you and Ginny. I'll talk a little bit about it and then I'll let you two take over. We jumped onto 7 Days Before Valentine because Punnasak Sukee was running this project. We all know him from 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us, which is a favorite of mine. So we were really excited to see additional work from him. He was adapting someone else's work this time. 

The initial premise is about this guy named Sunshine, who is an aspiring actor who has a kind of ugly breakup with his boyfriend, who's now seeing someone else. He meets this supernatural being which is able to grant him a wish to erase someone from existence in order to help him reunite with his boyfriend. He gets seven days of attempts to erase someone, and then the world resets, and he progressively erases different people who he believes are the person responsible for why he and his boyfriend didn't work out. 

I ended up not finishing the show because I was struggling with it as a weekly watch. NiNi came behind it late and watched it basically in two or three sittings and seemed to have a much better experience with it. 

I want to go to you first, Ginny, because I think you live watched the whole thing. 

Ginny 

I did live watch the whole thing, and I do think that NiNi did it better, because I think it was better suited for a binge. Obviously, we know going in that this guy is not gonna end up thinking that erasing somebody every night is a great thing to do, like, that's a horrific premise. His journey of really internalizing what he's doing and the horror of it is slooow to unfold over 10 weeks or so. It moves too slowly. I think it actually would have been a better show with shorter episodes. I think the episodic breaks are where they need to be, but I think that each episode could be tighter and brisker. 

NiNi and I both also read the source novel. I don't know how much we want to get into that, but I think we both were fascinated by how much the adaptation team added and enriched the very simple core story. It was a beautiful show, I think NiNi will talk a lot about that. The sort of root of this man who's lonely and has felt like he's had one person who loves and is a partner to him, abandon him and his desperation to get that back, being slowly replaced by his attachment to this other person who's locked in this weird Faustian situation with him. 

There was some good meat in there and some really good scenes played out. So I am glad I watched it. I think I would have enjoyed it better on a binge and I think it would have been a better show if it had been, just edited more tightly and moved faster through this character’s realizations. 

NiNi 

I think that's mostly how I felt about it. So I did watch it on a binge and I remember when we were discussing it saying that it felt like being in the theater for some really experimental play. Just sitting in the dark, thoroughly enjoying watching this thing unfold, not knowing where it's going but having a real good time. That's how it felt to me going through it, it was a little trippy. It was deep and interesting in the places that it needed to be deep and interesting. I liked the rhythm and meter and cadence of the dialogue. I don't speak Thai, but I do sing, and getting rhythm and meter, you could kind of feel the way that it was written, the kind of poetry, maybe, that it was meant to evoke. I was thoroughly enjoying this soothing rhythm of how it was written. 

The set design is outstanding. And then there's some stuff happening on like TVs and signs and all kinds of things in the background that was just crazy fun. It's a very moody, atmospheric kind of piece. It's sorta kinda like folklore or fairy tale, something supernatural. I had a really great, engaging time with it. I truly enjoyed it. I thought it was beautiful to watch. 

I also agree, Ginny, that it feels long, but then when you go through it, you're like, well, what would they cut? Where would they cut? Everything that's there feels like it needs to be there, and then the things that you're thinking, well, maybe they could shorten this or that. They add to the atmosphere of the piece in such a way that helped me immerse myself in the work. Like, there's some lull portions of it where it's just a character singing or, like, Sunshine doing the monologue from Macbeth. Maybe they could have cut this, but then when those things are happening, I'm literally glued, I can't turn away from them. 

It's definitely not BL, it's very experimental work that I personally enjoyed, but it's not a traditional narrative at all. 

Ben 

Shan, did you watch this show at all? 

Shan 

I did not. When the show started airing, I still hadn't watched 180 Degree Longitude Passes Through Us. So I remember when you all started this show live, asking whether I should watch it. And you, I think Ben, are the one who told me no. ‘No, I want you to watch 180D first.’ And as I was working through that binge, you all were continuing with 7 Days Before Valentine and kind of realizing, oh, this is not really holding up the same mantle as that show. So I ended up never diving in and then the final reviews of the show were pretty much mixed. It didn't feel like something I needed to prioritize to watch. I still haven't watched it. I'm not sure if I will. 

NiNi 

The only similarity really between 180D and this is that they both feel theatrical, but they feel theatrical in different ways. 180D is not anything like 7 Days Before Valentine. 

Ginny 

I think what you said about this feeling kind of folktale- or fairytale-esque was spot on, NiNi. In contrast to 180, which is all about these really deep, complex character interactions, all these characters felt very archetypical, and we were kind of watching these archetypical themes play out. In a way that was quite effective for a lot of it, but yeah, very different story strengths than 180 had. 

Ben 

So since the two of you finished the story, do you have any comments on the arc that Sunshine and Kyu go through over all of the resets they do together? 

NiNi 

I mean, I think here is where we would actually do like a little bit of novel comparison. The novel is so much more simplistic. There is so much less happening in the novel on a narrative standpoint. Kyu is not a character that gets his own arc in the novel. Kyu is just a character that shows up every night, gives Sunshine his wish, who he's gonna erase, and then disappears. Whereas in the show, Kyu is a fully fledged character in its own right with his own arc, and it is suggested, as well, his own Kyu?

I enjoyed Sunshine's arc in the show, a very lonely character who is sort of figuring out that he doesn't need to grab onto this one person and hold on to them super tight and be terrified if that person leaves him. Basically kicking and flailing to save the relationship once it's over. The way that that arc plays out, the way that Sunshine learns over the course of the seven nights. He starts with, ‘oh, we'll just get rid of the new guy, that'll bring him back to me’ and then he goes deeper and deeper and further and further out trying to find the ripples of how his relationship went wrong. Until, I think, it's the sixth night he asks to have himself erased? And then by the seventh night, he just wants Kyu to be happy. It’s really so well done. 

Ginny 

I think the nicest little storyline is around Sunshine realizing the importance of community. You see him initially very fixated on ‘I need this one person to come back to me’ and as the story wraps up and everybody's restored, you see him starting to see these other relationships with people who are in his life because of his ex, but also maybe care about him, who he could have some kind of community with. I think that was one of the most important character growth lines of the show, specifically with the ex's friend, and realizing that maybe the way he had seen her and his relationship to her had been very clouded by his own self-image and assumptions about people seeing him as somebody who should be discarded. 

NiNi 

What did you think about the Mephistopheles-esque character? Because he wasn't in the book. 

Ginny 

Oh, he was my favorite. The liquor and flower shop, so much fun. Every scene. There were a lot of scenes in the show that I was kind of bored during because again, I think they were just not paced very tightly, but every scene with this liquor flower shop owner, I was riveted. He was so engaging and dynamic as a atmospheric character, he brought so much richness. 

Ben 

What did the two of you rate the show? 

Ginny 

I gave it a 7.5. I think it's worth watching if the premise interests you, if you like great theatrical settings or cinematography. It was beautifully shot. And if the sort of Faustian theme and things like that are interesting, definitely worth a watch. 

NiNi 

I gave it an 8.5. I think that because I binged it, I had a slightly different experience and there were some things in the pacing that maybe I enjoyed slightly more because of that. I don't think it's for everybody, but if you like Faustian stories and you like experimental storytelling, I think it's a good one. 

Ben 

It's getting an 8 with an asterisk. 

NiNi 

I think that's fair. 

00:29:35 - Dead Friend Forever

NiNi

So next up, we are going to be talking Dead Friend Forever. Be On Cloud’s, horror-slasher-thriller. 

Shan, you pick up this one. Tell us what Dead Friend Forever is about.

Shan

Dead Friend Forever is, I think, maybe the first attempt in the genre to do a long form horror story. One of, actually, the big discussion points about this show is exactly what genre it lives in and what it's trying to be. It ended up blending a lot of different horror sub genres. It did some good mystery work. It did end up having a couple BL love lines, but that didn't follow the normal beats because of the genres it was living in. I think ultimately, it is the story of a teenage boy who was harmed by many people and the fallout of that.

Ginny, I feel like you know more of the lore behind the show and kind of the build up to it. Do you want to add to that?

Ginny

So this was a showcase for Be On Cloud’s new stable that they first brought in through their reality show The Hidden Character. And then this was the drama that a large number of these new guys got to star in. So some of the storytelling choices, there were some scenes that I felt like, oh this is really just for your resume reel, isn't it? But that said, it was well constructed. It was, I think, a good choice to make kind of the slasher genre that lets you have a lot of different characters with very vivid personalities that let these new actors demonstrate their talent without taxing them too hard on too much complexity. 

I really enjoyed this show. I have some notes, but overall, I thought it was fantastically well done, and especially as a way to launch about half a dozen new faces into the scene. And also a way to launch the cooperation between Be On Cloud and Sammon, the very beloved writer of Thai BL suspense. Her skills and Be On Cloud’s orientation and vision seem to be a really good match, so I'm excited to see her writing and their production team do more together.

Shan

I think actually finding out that she was the writer is the thing that finally sucked me into this show. [laughs] I jumped in, I think after episode 8? I kept hearing how good the writing was, and then I think Ginny told me that Sammon was the writer and I was like, ‘Oh! Let me get in there.’ 

I'm with you, I want them to do a lot more collaborations in the future because she is one of the stronger writers, I think, working in Thai BL, and they are one of the stronger production houses, so it's a really nice pairing.

Ben

I was watching this weekly with you all and then we got to the end of episode 4, and the teaser indicated a flashback and I was like, ‘I saw The Untamed. I'm not spending 27 episodes on that.’

[Ginny laughs]

Shan

Oh not The Untamed catching strays! Rude!

NiNi

I will allow it.

Ginny

We're gonna get so many notes.

[Shan and Ben laugh]

Ben

Look, I enjoyed The Untamed, but it was so ridiculous. And I just was not in the mood because I am not that keen on horror. As a black person who was raised in the South, I do not need to watch horror to trigger my fight or flight instinct for fun, so. I'm not that keen on the genre. It does not do much for me. I find that I can really only give about two-ish hours to a slasher concept before I get tired of it and need to walk away. And that happened to me with Dead Friend Forever, ‘cause we were in it for about four episodes, which was about three-ish hours, and I was like, ‘I'm done. [sigh] I'm taking a break.’ 

And then Shan, after episode eight, was like, ‘This show is very good. So, jot that down.’

Shan

I was like, ‘I'm so sorry, bestie. You're gonna have to finish it.’ [laughs]

Ben

I was like, “Goddammit!” [laughs]

Shan

It was really good!

Ben

I enjoyed a lot of the character writing. When they decided to delve into the horrors that these boys had inflicted on Non, played by Barcode—who was really good in this show—the show decided to really full commit to it. Holy shit!

NiNi

Like it was Korean level, how deep they got into the bullying.

Shan

Yeah. Like, they did not hold back, they really went for it. 

Ginny

Everybody wanted to see all of those boys die by the first flashback episode. Everyone was like, nevermind! 

Shan

Kill ‘em all. 

Ginny

Whoever’s out in the woods, killin’ ‘em? Get ‘em all.

Shan

Here's another axe.

Ben

I think they did a good job in illustrating the ways that boys just choosing to be a little bit shitty can snowball. There were a lot of points in the flashback where one person not being a coward or not being cruel could have saved all of them from the disaster that befalls them. It's important that we understand, like, why all these boys need to die if we're going to watch them all get brutally murdered. 

Speaking of the brutal murder portion of it, let's talk about the final episode and the bloodbath we got. Let's start with our favorite deaths. Who is the most bloodthirsty of all of us? It's definitely Shan.

[NiNi laughs]

Shan

There's no contest.

NiNi

It is 100% Shan.

Ginny

100%.

Shan

The highlight reel of deaths, which was my favorite? I really liked Fluke and Top kind of taking each other out together. So these are both characters who had been antagonists throughout the show. Top had been the most overtly aggressive antagonist throughout the show, he was just horrible, annoying, like you could never see why anybody would ever like that kid. And Fluke had been the bystander who saw everything happening, didn't actually do any of the perpetration directly, but also never intervened and never tried to make any of it stop. 

In their final scenes before their deaths, they were both standing in the same place they had always been: denying their accountability, saying, ‘I refuse to accept blame, I refuse to apologize, I refuse to die,’ and then they got into this little battle with each other and ended up going over the banister. They had already both been grievously injured, Fluke’s injury probably being my favorite. He ended up stabbing his own eyes out, which I thought was just such an appropriate poetic ending for him before then falling to his death.

Ben

Ginny, you were a huge fan of this show the whole way through. You're up next. Who was your favorite death?

Ginny

My favorite death was New. I think he's the last confirmed death because it's left sort of vague what happens to the last few guys. What I love is that he's been on this big revenge chorus and as far as we can tell, he's been doing everything. He overdid it. He caused the deaths of two people who weren't at all involved. Narratively, he needs to die, but he goes through this whole cycle of, ‘is this what Non would have wanted? Non, did I let you down again?’ He's got huge guilt on him. 

He's been shot. He's bleeding out. He sees Non come to him and sort of say, ‘yes, big brother, you did a great job destroying all these people who destroyed me. Thanks for that.’ So it's this very cathartic and almost sweet moment, even as he is dying. And I really liked it.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

Whoo, so, in my view, the people who most needed to die didn't. Or maybe they did, who knows. But the death that I found most satisfying…Por dying slowly in the background while everything is not about him, given that his need for the spotlight pushed almost everything that happened. I thought it was really elegant that he just literally gets dumped on a couch and basically forgotten to die.

Ben

Because I'm last, I get to cheat. My favorite death was Fluke because all he did was watch people be cruel and do nothing to help, and he was driven to insanity and stabbed his own eyes out. I thought that was excellent, really good thematic death for that character. A+. 

But my favorite death in terms of playing with genre themes has to be Tea stabbing White to death. A lot of folks in the discourse were hoping that he was gonna be the Final Girl.

Shan

It's me, I'm folks! I did not want White to die!

Ben

[laughs] I didn't think that boy deserved to die, but I thought it was appropriate. And he died in a really fucked up way.

NiNi

Genre-wise, it was definitely appropriate that he died.

Shan

It was a totally fair storytelling choice. I'm not mad at the show about it, but I'm really sad.

Ben

Oh, but we do have things we're mad at the show about. 

Shan

We sure do. [laughs]

Ben

Let's talk about that bullshit ass final 10, 15 minutes [Shan dramatically sighs] with Phee and Jin.

NiNi

Phee and Jin and technically Tee, but let's focus on Phee and Jin.

Shan

Phee and Jin are the bigger problem here.

Ben

Who wants to go first? [brief pause] Oh, good, I'll go. [laughs] 

NiNi

Oh no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no friend. I am going to go first, okay.

Shan

I was gonna say, NiNi’s gotta go on this one.

NiNi

Because let me tell you, Jin was the living worse because Jin was the Nice Guy. Jin just thought that his friends could be shitty as hell to Non forever, and as long as he smiled at him and was sweet to him and he put enough quarters in the Non machine that maybe Non would fuck him. And then when Non—trigger warning—when Non ends up being assaulted by his tutoring teacher and Jin sees that, what does he do? Does he try to stop it? Does he try to comfort him? Does he try to help him? No! He records it and puts it on the internet to ruin Non’s life. He needed to die, bloody, and he did not die bloody for me to see. And I was upset by that. 

Now Phee. I have words for Phee because your man is basically run out of town on a rail by these losers. You are all set to get revenge with his brother, and then one of them slangs you the dick and you're done with the whole revenge thing? Really, you gave up on the revenge? Are you serious right now? You ain’t hard. You ain’t bad. You ain’t serious. You're really trying to protect Jin? After everything? You know what he did! 

Ugh, I can't even. Phee and Jin needed to die bloody so that I could see. That did not happen. The psychological horror of whatever the story is saying happened with them at the end—that they never left the house, that they’re trapped in there—I don't care. I needed to see them die bloody. The end. 

Now you can talk, Ben.

Ben

Thank you! [NiNi laughs] I'm just gonna say it straight up, I fuckin’ hated it. I feel like that was where the BL aspects of it got in the way of the horror aspects of it. It feels like the show didn't want to show them dying horrible, bloody deaths because they were the primary BL pair? And I was not that keen on them doing the whole, ‘they didn't make it, but here's a little bit of fluff for the people who need that so that they can check out from facing that reality.’ 

I didn't like it! I wanted to see them also die bloody, painful deaths. They hedged. They showed Jin also being affected by the toxin that New inflicted them with when he was taking a knife to his hand, but they didn't finish it. And I was grumpy about it.

Shan

I agree with both of you and I think it's a shame because, I thought that what the show was doing with Phee through, like, episode nine was so interesting and so smart. Phee cared about Non, but he had also ended things with Non before he disappeared. He thought that Non had been cheating on him. Things didn't end with them in a good place. So he kind of reluctantly came along with New into this plan to get revenge on these boys who had ruined Non’s life. 

That whole arc that played out was honestly some of the best mystery writing I've ever seen. It was so masterful, the reveals were perfect, the pacing was awesome. I was so hype about this show. And then around episode 10 is when they started pulling their punches on Phee and it seemed to me to be related to this Phee and Jin stuff. It started with Phee and Jin finding out the roles they each played in Non's life and his downfall. I expected that to be a big moment of realization for Phee, like ‘oh, this boy that I've been interested in was the person who filmed Non being assaulted and put it on the internet.’ Like, that should have been a very, very big deal for him to find out that Jin is the person who did that. But it wasn't. Phee didn't care, really. He had a very brief reaction and then moved on and continued protecting Jin but it didn't create a fracture in their relationship at all, which it absolutely should have. 

That for me is when the writing of the show started to falter, and when I started to feel like, like you said, Ben, there were some other influences external to the show interfering with the story revolving around Phee and Jin being a popular BL ship and them not wanting to bust them up. And then that also led to, I think, this weird choice with the ending to imply that Phee and Jin survived and got to be happy. ‘Oh, but maybe they didn't. Maybe that was a dream and they're in the woods. But we're not gonna show you. We're gonna leave it open. Shippers get to interpret it the way they like. The horror fans get to interpret it the way they like. Everybody wins.’ But, when you make those kind of weaselly, non-choice choices, nobody wins.

Ben

At the end of episode 11, they dropped that axe, and then they panned over to it and I'm like, ‘oh boy, I can't wait to see somebody get fucking chopped up with that fuckin’ axe.’ And no one got fucking killed with the axe! I am so disappointed.

NiNi

Ginny, what about you? Where did you get off, so to speak?

Ginny

It didn't feel ambiguous to me so much as it felt like a classic horror movie gotcha. You think they got out free and they're fine and they're all happy? ‘Whoops. Nope, they never left the woods.’ I think if they’d landed on that just a little bit harder, if for example, we'd seen a hand pick up that axe and drag it along the ground and then cut to black.

NiNi

Oh, that would have been so good.

Ginny

Right? I think it might have been wenkexingapologist who suggested that so I don't want to take credit for it, but lovely, my alternate ending. I do think because the ending was so brief and we don't actually see them back there, as Shan said, it leaves a little room for people who really wanna believe in Phee and Jin's happy ever after to believe that. And I think that's a bit cowardly, although I do understand the market forces that maybe led them to do that. 

I also would have really loved to see, like, a full character devolution the way that we got with Fluke very appropriately poking his eyes out and Tee stabbing his new innocent love. I would have loved to see that kind of character-driven end for both Phee and Jin, so I'm a little disappointed in that. But my real quibble with the ending that we got is just that they didn't land quite hard enough on it for me.

Ben

I don't like a psychological ending to a slasher when I'm in a slasher I'm expecting my bloodlust to be sated. I don't wanna think through the horror at the end of a slasher.

NiNi

[laughs] Gotta agree.

Shan

That's fair. My only other real strong critique of the show is, given the way that White died, given that he was a victim in the end, I was frustrated by how underwritten he was relative to all the other characters. We just never got to know him. We didn't understand what motivated him. We didn't understand why he liked Tee. We knew he had nothing to do with what happened to Non, and that was intentional, he was meant to be an innocent victim in this. But I would have liked to know him better. 

I think where my frustration with this really came bubbling to the surface is he had a hallucination at the end, just like all the other boys. And he was hallucinating boils on his skin and we never knew why. We never got any backstory to explain why his specific fear was centered on this visible disfigurement, this idea that he was going to be rejected because he was dirty, quote unquote. We can fill in some guesses. A lot of folks have put forward theories, but we shouldn't have to put forward a theory for that, all the other boys had hallucinations and fears that were very clearly tied to what we knew about them and what they had done. We didn't get anything like that for White’s. They wanted him to be part of it, but we never knew enough about him to understand what brought him to that state, and why those were his fears, and that felt a little lacking to me, in the end.

Ben

So, final ratings. NiNi?

NiNi

I ended up at an 8.5 because I just thought that it was egregious that I did not get to see Phee and Jin die bloody, A. And B, I also thought that the way the show was structured was really good, but, I think that it may have been more effective for the flashbacks to have been interspersed with the present day rather than being a section on their own in the middle.

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

I also gave it an 8.5. It was so tight and so well written, did almost all of what it set out to do. Did pull its punches a little at the end. Did weaken story-wise over the final three episodes. That's why it's not higher, but I did really love and appreciate it.

Ben

Shan.

Shan

I gave it an 8 for the same reasons basically that NiNi and Ginny just said. I think it was an excellent show for 9 episodes and then I think it kind of weakened in the final arc. I give a lot of weight to the ending of a show like this and I think having to leave on the bum dissatisfied note at the end of a slasher is just kind of a bummer.

Ben

For the reasons Shan gave, I gave the show a 7.5. Release is a huge part of horror storytelling and not giving us release after three months pissed me off. I don't want to give the show a 7 ‘cause that feels disrespectful to how well executed this whole project is. My primary feeling with Dead Friend Forever is dissatisfaction when I think about it. I should be reveling in the bloodlust at the end and I did not get that feeling.

NiNi

[laughs] I know, right? One thing I did enjoy at the very end is everybody hallucinating baby Barcode basically coming for their asses.

Ginny

That was so good.

NiNi

Barcode had such a great time playing that character.

Shan

We shouldn't leave this segment without talking about how good Barcode was in this show.

NiNi

He was amazing.

Ben

They let Barcode play off of a lot of different characters in a lot of different ways, particularly with some of the fantasy scenarios. And I'm really excited for future work from him. 

That averages out to 8.125. We'll give it an 8 from The Conversation. Recommended if you want to watch a long-ass horror experience with the caveats that we have some consternation about the ending.

00:50:03 - Love for Love’s Sake

NiNi

Let's head on to the main event for this episode: Love for Love’s Sake. Ben, you got this one. Take it away.

Ben

Finally, a show I watched properly the whole way! We've been here for an hour and 20 minutes, talking about shows I either quit or started late! 

Love for Love’s Sake is a Korean BL. A 29 year-old man wakes up in some sort of strange world where he is back in high school, dealing with some sort of game interface telling him he has to go make his blorbo happy. The show initiates from him meeting with an old friend who's a writer who asked him to beta read his book. And he was pissed about this het nonsense, going, “Why does this boy have to be sad and suffer in other people's happy ending?” His friend goes, “Well, they're adapting my book into a game. If you could, would you make him happy?” And then he passes out drunk, because that's what happens in Korean shows, and he wakes up in the fantasy world, and now he's got this game interface telling him to do stuff. And his mission is: Make Cha Yeo Woon—his blorbo—Happy, or Die. As the show goes along, the game gives him different rewards, sends him different quests. And this gets complicated by some reveals we get late in this, but let's pick up there with the initial conceit. 

Shan, you watch this live with us. Let's talk through the live watch experience of this. I was very familiar with this type of storytelling, where someone dies in our world or whatever and then wakes up in another world and has to deal with the fantasy conceits of it, particularly around gaming and such. And also I've played a lot of fucking video games. So a lot of this stuff was super legible to me right away and I did not need a lot of handholding. But you expressed some frustration early on with this.

NiNi

Just so that I understand when Ben teaches me Japanese terms that I remember them. Is this what they would refer to as ‘isekai’ Ben?

Ben

This is what we would call isekai.

Shan

Look at you, NiNi.

NiNi

Thanks! I learn things every day.

Shan

The live watch of this show was extremely fun. A lot of the discussion week to week was about like, what exactly is going on here? Because the show didn't want to tell us. [laughs] I think what might have frustrated me a bit in the beginning was not understanding fully the rules of the universe, which as we get to the end becomes clear why that was. There was a purpose to that in the storytelling. It's not always that easy to tell at the beginning of a show how confidently the story is being told, and like how intentional all the choices are versus what's just a misstep. 

But the show, I think, was confidently told, like it knew what it wanted to do and what it wanted to do, ultimately, was leave a lot of room for interpretation in what this game world was, why it worked the way it did, what the choices of the characters meant, what the characters themselves even were. So I thought it was great as a live watch, honestly, and I'm really glad that we watched it that way. I got a lot out of those weekly discussions where we would all unpack what we thought was going on, the questions that we had, things that we noticed as we were trying to figure out what this world was about. An early moment in the show that just gutted me and, like, had me clutching my chest and like in it—no matter what—was when Myung Ha was in the game he would get these scores over the heads of people to see what Yeo Woon—what was it called, Ben? The attractiveness score or the like score or something like that?

Ben

It was the score about his affection level; how much Cha Yeo Woon liked you.

Shan

Right. So because his original mission as we understood it was to make Yeo Woon like him, he would see where his affection level was sitting—it was always hilariously low. And then he unlocked this new power to be able to see how Yeo Woon's affection level was sitting for other people as well. The score was very low for everybody, but then we see that the lowest affection score that Yeo Woon has for anybody is for himself.

Ben

I screamed.

Shan

It was a knife straight into the heart, like, oh my God, this poor boy. And you just fully understood him in that moment. It was done so craftily through this established power that Myung Ha had the way that the show moved on from it quickly. Like, I'm not even sure how deeply Myung Ha even processes it as the player in that moment. It was just so artfully done, and I was like, “Oh, this show knows what it's about.” It really instilled confidence in me from that point forward that I was along for a ride here, and that the things I didn't understand, it was because I wasn't supposed to understand them. 

Once we clicked into that, the experience of watching each set of two episodes each week, having deep discussion about them, and unpacking them along the way was such an awesome way to watch. It's not that it's bad in a binge, but I think it's one that really benefits from stopping to think between installments and let your mind wander and process all the different things that it threw at you.

Ben

With that in mind, I want to ask Ginny, because NiNi's been very busy. But, Ginny, you generally receive through the grapevine what's going on with the project, even if you're not really watching it at the moment. What was it like for you seeing this show engender such positive brainrot in people, and then going into it yourself fairly spoiled for some of the big reveals?

Ginny

It was a totally different experience. The main reason I didn't watch it live is that Korean BL is real hit or miss for me, so I always let you guys go into it first, and then tip me off if you think I might like this one. Around episode 6, I was like, “Hey, should I watch this?” And Shan was like, “No, just wait till it's all over.” But yeah, I was seeing a lot of hype. It was clearly making people think a lot. And then it was really cool watching the conversation turn. 

I didn't realize right away what was happening, but it was clear that this was getting really existential all of a sudden in ways that people hadn't necessarily been anticipating. Seeing people suddenly less up in their heads about what exactly is going on and more like, “Oh, I'm suddenly hit with all these emotions about all of these ramifications of what I've learned.” And then I did, not intending to, pick up the gist of the big reveals, and so I went into it kind of knowing what it was going to be. So, I had a very different watch experience from those of you who watched it live. 

It was a good watch experience. It might have been better for me because I was immediately looking out for all of these little indications and all of these deeper ripples of meaning. For me, it was more like I know what we're getting to, so as soon as I saw that, I knew what it meant. Which was also a good experience, just a different one.

Ben

From this point on, listeners, we are going to discuss major reveals and spoilers about the end of this show. 

I have a personal family experience around drowning, and so when we saw Tae Myung Ha's eyes in that sequence when he kept, like, teleporting around the world, because of all of the water sounds we have been getting in the show, I was like, “Oh no… I'm not gonna put that out there.” But I very much felt it coming. This show ends up being about Tae Myung Ha’s suicide, and we end up in an uncertain place about what all we're experiencing with him.

Shan

We started this show thinking that it was a game. And recognizing that the show was dealing with some heavy themes, recognizing that there seemed to be an element of Yeo Woon being a stand-in for Myung Has's need to develop self love. And I don't think we realized how literal that was going to get. It was heavy to realize this character that we had gotten invested in…was gone.

Ben

In her notes, NiNi has a comment about The Good Place relative to this show, so I want to come to you now, NiNi. You went into the show with us basically telling you, “We know you're busy, but in no uncertain terms you must watch [laughs] this show. We will not be telling you about it on the podcast. You will be watching.”

NiNi

So, I actually went in unspoiled, but I did binge it after it was over. It played with genre in away you start up thinking that it's a sci-fi thing where he's trapped in the game, and it ended up being this sort of existential, heavy magical-realism thing. When the game starts malfunctioning is when I realized it all was not quite right in terms of how we were processing originally what the show we thought we were getting is. 

In the beginning, it's cool and fun to look at the show as a video game and try to be like, “Oh, there's the NPCs, there's dead pixels, there's the background map." Yes, Ben, I do know game things. Thanks. All the little video game elements of the story. You're picking up on all that and you're having a good time. In the meanwhile, it is giving you flashes of these things. Like, it's giving you that flash of Yeo Woon being the person that he hates the most. The game malfunctioning in little bits and pieces, things like that. You're getting all these hints, but you're not putting them together until something big and catastrophic happens. It's so well done. I was having such a good time with it, and then I get to the end and you realize exactly what's happening, that this is all…it's the gods playing dice, right? It's them saying this is the way that we have decided that you deal with your afterlife. 

Ben talked about my note about The Good Place. For me, that's what it was. It was about Myung Ha having to find a way to accomplish the things in death that he didn't accomplish in life, of death not being an ending, of death being an opportunity to still learn and grow, and maybe have a life afterward. Whatever it is that you have to learn to take with you into the next life. Basically, it's Myung Ha learning to pour so much love into himself that he can feel it either in his afterlife or in the next life. 

And that idea of death not being the end; people found it bummed them out. I found it really comforting.

Ben

I really want to get into how everybody received this project and the major feelings it engendered in them that they walked away with. Ginny, where are you sitting with this resolution of the show and how you're carrying it forward with you?

Ginny

Good question. It left me feeling, I think, less sad than it might have left you. NiNi compared it to The Good Place. I found myself thinking a lot about The End of the World With You, which is also about characters wrestling with the desire to die—the theme that I often am wary to engage with in stories. But I found both of these to be very affirming and loving towards those characters, while also saying, “What if you made a different choice? Not because it's the natural or the easy thing, but because there's reasons to do that.” 

For Tae Myung Ha to turn his focus away from meeting other people's needs and say, “Actually, what if your happiness mattered? What if you gave yourself the love and care that you want to give to this character that you see yourself in?” is such a resonant theme. I came away not needing necessarily to know how I interpret the characters final state or status, but feeling like I'd been gently led through this experience of “Love yourself more. Work to make yourself happy instead of walking into the sea.” It was a very life affirming watch experience for me, although it did have this deep melancholy around it also.

Shan

One of the things I really like about the ending of the show is that it is so open for interpretation. There are no two people who have the exact same interpretation of what the ending means. People took what they needed from it, I think, and what they preferred to believe, and the show left it open for people to be able to do that. I ultimately didn't actually receive this show as a BL or a romance at all. 

Important note here perhaps is that I am an atheist and I don't believe in the afterlife. And so for me, this was a show about something really tragic that happened, and maybe being able to be given this small chance to find self love. I don't think Yeo Woon is an actual person that Myung Ha fell in love with. I think he is a representation of Myung Ha's own self and his need to learn to love himself. And so I did find it quite sad and quite melancholy, but in a way that I thought was just so lovely. Such a lovely way to deliver that message about the importance of self love, about the importance of trying, about not giving up. I really loved it. I find it beautiful.

Ben

It's the rare instance where a show ends ambiguously, but the audience is not fighting with each other over the interpretation. As the resident Sad Boy of the podcast team, let me tell you: I chose the saddest interpretation possible for this.

NiNi

[Ben and NiNi laugh] Of course you did, bestie. Absolutely you did.

Shan

You sure did. Even sadder than mine, somehow. [laughs]

Ben

I was talking about the end, and Shan was like, “Damn, Ben shit. [laughs] “You live like this, girl? Shit!” 

I was really caught up in the character of the nebulous writer, the God figure, and author of this world, seemingly. I like the idea of someone who clearly cared about his friend not really knowing what to do with his friend's tragedy, and trying to find a way to remember him kindly. I think that's where I connected to, less so in Myung Ha's final moments or afterlife, but more in the grief that the people in his life have to live with after his passing. I like the idea of somebody immortalizing a friend of theirs in an experience where the player is asked to please make him happy.

NiNi

This is why you're the melancholy boy, because I didn't even go there. 

Ginny

Yup! [laughs]

Shan

One of the really interesting live discussions that we had was around the role of the game creator—a lot of speculation about who he was, this idea that he was a friend who would lovingly created this place for Myung Ha. And I was like, “No!” because why would a friend force these cruel choices on someone he was trying to help? The cruelest choice that I think really stands out for people in the game is when Myung Ha is forced to choose between saving his grandmother or saving Yeo Woon, and that was a big point of focus for a lot of the speculative discussion. 

Who put him in this game and for what reason are we talking about God-like figure who is putting him through trials? Are we talking about a friend who's trying to give him a path to self love? One of the things that I love about this show is that there are so many things like that throughout where you could focus on a thing that happened, or something that was going on in the background, or like an interaction, and you could unpack it and come up with so many different interpretations for it that could be true. The show is just loaded with stuff like that and so many details. 

Once you know where the ending is leading, if you go back and watch it from the start, or just think back, there are clues the whole time about the drowning. There are water sounds from the first episode. You can hear water when Myung Ha is in like a certain state. The place that he is talking with this author in is in some kind of otherworldly dimension that never connects to anything else in the show.

NiNi

He always looks wet, his bangs are plastered to his forehead. He always looks like he's soaked.

Shan

They definitely knew what they were doing the whole time, and the show is just loaded with these small details that the production baked in. It's just so well done.

NiNi

The show is basically a Rorschach test. It's so interpretable. It’s hard to do that in a show. It is an incredibly difficult balance to maintain.

Ben

That was part of the fun I had chatting with everybody. Shan was talking about the back and forth we're having where she really rejected my interpretation because she thought a lot of the choices in the game were cruel.

NiNi

I'm on Shan’s side. I think it's a cruel and whimsical God.

Ben

And I was talking about how ugly grief can be sometimes, and how sometimes some of that will come out where you get mad at them. I like that a big part of the resolution from Myung Ha is to reject the bullshit choice of choosing the boy he likes or his grandmother. That seems like the kind of frustration that somebody who's listened to a friend who's suffering fall into a really negative spiral over something that is not a correct way to place things against each other, like an either or in their life. And I interpreted that as sort of a…externalization of their frustration about that kind of stuff.

Shan

And I remember liking that interpretation, Ben. Not really a denial of the cruelty, but like an acknowledgment that sometimes we're cruel to people we love because of our own frustration. I really ended up liking a lot of different interpretations of the show, even if I didn't share them. I really enjoyed reading people's thoughts about it.

Ben

I really like that part a lot. I really loved that everybody took something from this and it was appreciable. Someone gives you their interpretation and you just go, hmm. And then you sit with it for a bit. And there's not a ‘I agree’ or ‘disagree,’ you just receive what that person is connecting to, and you've learned a little bit about somebody else as a result. We didn't talk a lot about the side characters, but I liked Cha Woong Ki in this because he was very funny on Boys Planet, and I really liked what Oh Min Su did with Chun Sang Won, because that boy was a very fun version of queer, and his crush on Tae Myung Ha but we'll get no satisfaction from it.

Shan

[laughs] I remember Ben being very disappointed that we never got to meet Kyung Hoon's boyfriend in Canada.

Ben

Right! We never met the Canadian. I'm so mad. I'm like, “That boy doesn't exist!”

Shan

Yes! And I said, “Ben, you're not allowed to meet the Canadian partner. That's the joke!”

NiNi

That's literally the joke. You go to a different school. You don't know them. That's the joke.

Ben

Yeah, but you showed me—what's that show—Goblin? We went to Maple Nation! We can go find him!

Shan

I do think maybe one of the consequences of the way the show ended and how that absorbed our attention is that the side characters got maybe a little bit of short shrift. Who are they? Are they players in the game? Are they characters in the game? Are they real? They kind of got lost a little bit, but those performances were great, and I really liked the dynamics between the characters inside the game.

NiNi

So ratings, let's start with you, Ginny.

Ginny

I gave it a 9. I thought it was really excellent. Beautifully done. A really good experience. As a story, it's not something that I want to go back to.

Ben

Shannon.

Shan

I also gave it a 9. I do think that there was some fuzziness here and there. It was short, and there were maybe some shortcuts that had to be taken because of the time that they had. It didn't quite get to the 10 level for me. It's a strong recommendation with a big trigger warning caveat about some of the really heavy content that it gets into, and I'm leaving it at a 9.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

So, I gave it a 9.5, and the reason that I gave it a 9.5 is I often come to this show and to our watches in the spirit of “let things play out and see what happens.” Because of doing this show, I have become a long view kind of person, and so, on an episode-by-episode basis, I now tend to give things a lot more latitude as being links in a chain. I am always the one here being like, “Okay, it did this, but you don't know what they're going to do next. Let's give it some space.” And I think that this show, I think more than any other show that I've watched, has really rewarded that way of processing it for me. The fact that I let it play out, and let it play out, and let it play out, in the end, it tied everything back up that I had noticed.

Ben

I gave the show a 9. It ends ambiguously and the audience does not have consensus. I think that is a totally fine choice, but considering how heavy this show was, I don't know how I feel about how much of the audience just walked away only connecting to the BL romance arc of it, and so it's a 9 for me from a recommendation standpoint. I have to gauge the viewer when I'm recommending it to them, because I don't know that the viewer ends in the same place with the show, and I'm not entirely certain where the show even wants us to land. I think it's fine for the show to turn that mirror back on us at the end as a completely valid choice, but it complicates it as a recommendation.

NiNi

It’s 9 from The Conversation.

Ben

I think a 9 is a valid recommendation from us. It is a worthwhile show to watch if you are okay contemplating suicide and the social impacts of that.

NiNi

Well...should we end on a joke after that?

Shan

[laughs] I was gonna say! Maybe we should not end on such a sad note. [NiNi laughs]

01:13:39 - Outro

Ginny 

I am really excited that we're getting more and more genre BL. It's something that I've been eager to see. Me and NiNi probably are the most forgiving viewers. I love seeing shows take wild swings, even if they end up kind of missing. So my feelings overall are: Bring it on, bring us some wacky combinations, give us some things that make us incredibly moody. Let's expand this media world and give us BL with all of these other genre flavors added. I love it. 

Shan 

I'm agreeing with Ginny on that. I think it's cool to see BL venture outside of the basic middle of the road romcom model that it started in and really try out some new stuff and its storytelling. I do appreciate when shows are going to go into genre that they have a firm grasp on the genre that they're playing in, and that they try to meet the standards and expectations of those genres. I think the shows that we discussed today—mostly—really came to play in the genres that they were in, put together some really interesting, provocative stuff, gave us a lot to think about. And I'm really excited to get more of that in BL. 

NiNi 

I really enjoy good genre blend. All genres have their own conventions, and I enjoy when people who are writing in those genres are playing with the conventions, and they understand them, and they know how to bend them and twist them, and maybe even in some cases break them. It's interesting watching BL experiment with that—to different levels of success, granted. But I like watching it happen though. 

Ben 

What I really like about genre blending and BL is it gives these creators a chance to really say something, and there was some of that here. I think the Playboyy team had things they wanted to say, but they made a goddamn mess of it. I walked away from Dead Friend Forever and Love for Love's Sake with a lot that I was thinking about in response to the narrative and the events that the shows wanted to unpack. And even though I didn't manage to finish 7 Days Before Valentine at the time, I was with them for this examination of Sunshine’s character, and the nature of his relationship, and the selfishness at the core of his character and unpacking that. 

This was a really cool experience beyond just, “There's two pretty boys. They smile a lot. There's some juice. They're going to kiss.” Which was a really nice change of pace. Despite the sort of mixed responses we may have had here, I really enjoy that the space exists enough to allow the people who have the money to let people try to do stuff like this. 

NiNi 

Okay, and on that note, that is going to wrap us up on this Genre Grab Bag. Next up in Part 2, we're gonna talk about some Japanese BL. 

We out. Say bye to the people—in chorus—1, 2, 3. 

Ginny and Shan 

Bye.

Ben

Peace. [Ginny laughs]

NiNi 

Oh, my God, y’all are so bad at this.