batfambyval

[batfambyval]

Totally agree with every point you make here and I think it’s very important to have actual thought conversations about these kinds of things.

I’m white, so I know my opinion is less personally informed, but white doesn’t really describe my actual heritage either. I come from Finish, Italian, Irish, and Polish descent, all with wildly varying cultures, so I understand completely how the racial brushstrokes we paint the world in are so diminishing of everyone’s identity.

And in comics, a form of media that is so dominated by generically white characters, I think it’s important to inject heritage and culture into characters without it. It’s hard to have a fully fleshed out character without understanding having any idea of the culture they were raised with. The important thing is to make sure you do it with respect for both the real people and culture, and the characters themselves. The whole idea is useless if you don’t work with the character’s identity and history to make sense. (Cough cough* Titans Tim Drake *cough).

As long as you make an effort to represent the culture accurately and don’t just change the character to fit some stereotype of that culture I think it’s not only acceptable but preferable.

In the case of Tim, it’s fairly simple to give him Asian heritage, or any heritage really. He comes from money, his parents run an international business. It’s not a stretch to say either of his parents are from another country and that the marriage strengthened ties between companies or that they met while doing business. For me personally, I head canon that Janet Drake was Japanese and married Jack as a way to merge her own family’s slowly dying business (a tech conglomerate maybe, or something in shipping) with Drake Industries and maintain her own status, as well as because their interests, hobbies, and values aligned well.

In my opinion Tim’s the only character who really needs that injection of culture in the Batfam though. All the others have a lot of that already that make sense for who they are. Bruce is Jewish and Gothamite, his family having been in Gotham since its founding and yes I do count Gotham as a culture because it’s just so unique. Bruce has a lot of family history, and changing it would be incredibly difficult. Dick’s race is potentially flexible but since him being Romani has been canonized I see no reason to change it, though adding to it wouldn’t be difficult. Jason’s race is purposefully obscure, so much so that I head canon even he doesn’t know what he is other than Gothamite, and that’s all that matters (he still speaks Spanish fluently like a native speaker because he was raised in a neighborhood full of Latinx people who raised him as much as his parents did). Steph is white. We are allowed to have white characters, but her actual ethnicity is totally up for interpretation. I think there’s a good amount of Irish in her, but idk how connected she is to her heritage, maybe she’s like Jason and just identifies as a Gothamite, maybe she’s extremely attached to some part of her culture that she clings to. Like I said, up for interpretation, there’s actually a lot of freedom there.

Newer characters who were written with race and ethnicity like Cass, Damian, and Duke are a different matter.

In Cass’s case, she is half Chinese, at least in the case of newer comics involving Lady Shiva. God Lady Shiva’s entire history is an absolute mess of contradictions and she’s be written by too many different people with wildly different understandings of her character. She’s either born and raised in Detroit or from a nameless village in China, she has like three different “real” names, and her appearance is not at all fixed. For the sake of not going on a tangent I will just focus on Cass and her relationship with her heritage here. Cass was not raised by her mother, but her white father who did not raise her with culture, only violence, so. Her relationship with her heritage is entirely self made. I admittedly haven’t read all her comics, but I do know that she identifies greatly with her heritage and moved to Hong Kong to explore that side of herself after Bruce “died.” So her race is pretty set in stone, even though her mother’s… really isn’t which says so much about DC honestly. And I will leave it at that because I’m getting distracted.

Damian’s mother Talia is pretty solidly a mix of Chinese and Arab on both sides from my understanding, but the League of Assassins has an entirely separate culture that hasn’t been fully developed yet, so there’s some room for both creativity and to draw from the existing cultures that we know are deeply embedded within the League.

Duke is… an entire can of worms I just realized I have absolutely no business opening what the actual fuck??? Ok I’m—I’m not touching that. Fuck, he’s mixed, with a black mom and — whatever the fuck Gnomon is what the fuck I thought Duke was just a random meta ummmmmmmm. No I’m done I’m not thinking about it. What the fuck? (But his mom is not fleshed out at all and there’s so much room for more specific culture and considering the number of different African cultures and sub cultures and the cultures that formed in the Americas there’s a lot to choose from.)

Anyway. Race, ethnicity, heritage, and culture. Good. People have that. Characters should have that. Um. Fuck. My brain exploded. Hope this helps someone else who’s thinking about this? And um, let’s have discussions about it and think it through. And yeah? (Me, softly, but with feeling: What the fuck Duke might be immortal???)

I saw a post criticising those who racebend Batfamily members, particularly Tim. They said that making Tim Asian when Cass and Damian are right there was racist in its own way.

I see their point. Truly. Because Cass and Damian are brilliant and compelling characters and I think that if you want to write an Asian character then it's definitely better to focus on those who are actually Asian first, y'know?

But I also thought about the fact that they basically painted both characters with one brush when referring to them? Cass is Chinese, Damian is a mix of Chinese and Arabic (correct me if I'm wrong on either) whereas I've seen Tim written as Korean, Vietnamese and Japanese. I myself have written him as Filipino.

There are many different Asian countries and cultures, so to just say "Cass and Damian are Asian write them!!" Is a little...eh to me?

I'm part Cameroonian, and if someone where to get mad about people race bending characters to be Black using the argument "Duke's African just write him!" I'd be giving them a bit of a side eye.

Because yes, we should focus on actually writing canon Black/brown characters before racebending. But we should understand that there are different cultures, subcultures, beliefs, ways of living etc. under the umbrella of each race too. Cass and Damian have different cultural links and experiences, you can't just swap in one for the other because they're Asian, Black or any other race we can think of.

Like if you're writing a racebended Vietnamese character you can't just swap them for one that's canonically Chinese and have that be it. So we do need to be a little more thoughtful when starting these conversations.

Personally, I agree with the poster's sentiment and intention, but racebending isn't inherently wrong (melanin beam challenge anyone?) and you can't just swap out one for the other in the name of being "correct" we have to be more thoughtful than that.

I hope my point is coming across clear here? I'm not defending racebending over focusing on canon characters, just hoping that that focus is going to be done with the thought, love and respect these characters (and their very real cultures) deserve 💜

[batfambyval]

Some people seem to be under the impression that Tim Drake is an introvert. This is definitely not the case. Tim is difficult to get along with, which can limit his close social circle, but he’s definitely a people person. He always has friends, in the cape and out of it. He always has love interests (plural), he’s adored by most who meet him and inspires great loyalty in his comrades. And he isn’t just liked by others, he likes them too. Tim relaxes more when he’s with people, when he’s alone he really just stresses himself out and ends up working to keep himself busy.

Sure, after the events of Red Robin his close social circle diminished due to the many perceived betrayals by those he trusted most, but he built up new friendships immediately. Tim needs people, not just to keep him grounded (if he goes insane chances are he drags all his friends along with him), but because he’s an extrovert who thrives on social interaction. Maybe he doesn’t show it as openly when he’s in the mask due to the mysterious persona he maintains, but it’s still a huge part of his character and a major driver in his life.

Tim Drake is an extrovert.

[batfambyval]

I totally agree with this take! I think Tim’s Hyper-Empathy is mostly due to his intelligence and observational skills, because in reality hyper empathy is just being able to read a person’s body language and facial expressions, it’s about noticing details and being able to recognize what they mean. Which is basically what detective work is. I would say all the Bats other than Bruce are hyper empaths, especially Cass, hyper empathy is literally her super power. And the only reason Bruce isn’t one is because while he notices the details he doesn’t know how to translate them, he doesn’t pick up on social cues or understand how his words affect his kids, not because he doesn’t care but because he never learned how to read those nonverbal cues.

But Tim’s hyper empathy is unique compared to the others not because he’s better or worse at it, but because he’s so logical about it. He could always read moods and connect behavior with cause on a huge scale. He was able to observe the criminal population of Gotham and understand why they were getting bolder (because Robin could be killed, so Batman probably can be too). He was able to read Batman, though at the time that wasn’t a huge feat. He read Dick and Alfred and used his observations to tailor his own reactions to what would be most beneficial for his goals.

Tim’s hyper empathy is a weapon he wields masterfully, as a tool for survival, manipulation, and making friends. He gathers people from the most unlikely places and understands them well enough to say exactly the right thing to get them on his side. Sometimes he might choose to act in spite of what he knows others are feeling, if he deems his objective more important, but he doesn’t hurt people’s feelings like that without weighing the consequences. Unlike Bruce, Tim doesn’t hurt people out of ignorance, only because he has real reason to do something despite how much it may hurt someone he loves (*cough* Tam Fox *cough*).

And yeah, his hyper empathy does contribute a lot to his self image. I think it’s difficult for him to separate how he knows others see him and how he sees himself. Which is incredibly damaging because he pretty much never lets people see all of him, constantly putting on masks and hiding parts of himself, never letting anyone get the full picture. So he’s internalizing other’s incomplete perception of him. And that’s not good for his self worth or mental stability, because a) he splits his time between so many jobs and masks that nobody who only knows one or two of those will see how hard he works and b) different people’s opinions of him vary wildly so sometimes he feels like absolute shit who doesn’t deserve what he has or sometimes he’ll feel like he’s the greatest thing to grace the earth, and everything in between! Tim simultaneously has a huge ego and major self worth issues because of his hyper empathy and it’s so interesting watching him flip between believing he’s the absolute shit, to needing to prove he isn’t absolute shit.

I have a headcanon. It's about Tim. And before anyone says empaths aren't real, people, they are very real, just misrepresented also I interchange empath with hyperempath but hyperempath is more accurate (cuz everyone has empathy.)

So, Tim's a hyperempath. Very tuned into emotions just very logic driven and rationalizes things too much and was taught to compartmentalize. This hc goes well with Tim feeling not enough for Batfam, Why?

So, we got Bruce Wayne wo is Batman who can control body language and even microexpressions the very thing empaths rely on when feeling people. Plus, emotional constipation and brick wall attitude. So, what does it do to Tim?

"I have to prove myself to be worth it."

"He says he's proud of me, says we're a family, but I can't see it. Does he really?"

So yeah, adds to his insecurities. To people who says empaths aren't like that, nope they are, the most commonly known empaths are just the fakes or the ones who're still learning pr altogether sucks at emotional regulation. It's a real experience and most empaths are the bestest friends you can have.

Also, if you don't believe me about empathy search it up, I dare you.

To more knowledgeable people out there, correct me if I'm wrong.

[batfambyval]

HAPPY 17 TIM! WE LOVE YOU AND ITS OKAY YOU DON’T NEED TO BECOME AN EVIL ADULT!

*At the Watchtower for some huge meeting*

Superman: hey Red Robin! Happy belated birthday! It was last week right? How old are you now?

Red Robin: 17.

Nightwing: 20!

Everyone: *stares*

Nightwing: RR, we talked about this. You can’t just decide to stop aging. That’s not how it works. You were born 20 years ago so you are 20 years old.

Red Robin: no. I’m 17 and I really need you to stop saying I’m not.

Impulse: Yeah! We’re 17 Nightwing! We’re never gonna be older than that!

*yj core four gather round Red Robin menacingly*

Superman: what?????

Nightwing: *sighs*

Batman: *dissatisfied grunt*

Red Robin: we went through a lot of bs to become eternally 17 and I won’t let you ruin our hard work!

Wonder Woman (eternally young and suffering for it): why? Why would you do this?

Superboy: if RR is doing it we’re gonna be right there with him!

Wonder girl: *nods*

Red Robin: believe us, you don’t want to see what happens if I lose my youthful optimism.

[batfambyval]

I know that the mental and spiritual effects of using the Lazarus pits are… disagreed upon. There’s no true canon for it. But I would like to posit a theory based purely on canon, particularly the Red Hood and Red Robin comics. (I never did a deep dive on Damian, so while I do know he has also been affected by the pit my own lack of knowledge or time to actually read those comics keeps me from including anything from his story.)

The two big non-comic canon sources that have in universe explanations and data on Lazarus pit effects are the Arrowverse and the Gotham Knights video game. Both have unique takes on the subject and, in my opinion, over complicate it. Ra’s al Ghul has been using the pits for centuries. When he met Bruce, my understanding of his character is that the pit had yet to have any visible impact on his sanity or personality. Ra’s’ anger is always controlled, he shows superior mental acuity and honesty most of his madness could conceivably, and in fact more feasibility, be from his existing mental illnesses and his inability to accept his own death. Ra’s’ madness always seemed to be his own, stemming from his antisocial tendencies, narcissism, and need for absolute control. When his own death was approaching it became much more apparent and he became more desperate and unhinged, but I don’t really attribute that to the pit’s direct influence.

All this is not to say that the Lazarus Pit doesn’t affect its users minds, only that those effects are not always so obvious as people believe.

Moving away from verified canon, and into my own interpretations and theories, I propose that the mental effects of Lazarus exposure doesn’t add or amplify anything, emotions or otherwise, but that it hinders or blocks certain logical pathways and connections. Jason is, of course, our best case to study as he was exposed to Lazarus water on only one occasion and the immediate aftermath is well documented. One major issue in attempting to understand the Lazarus effects is that Jason’s case is obviously not a controlled experiment, and it is difficult to differentiate between Jason’s own trauma and instability and the effects of the pit. Which is where Tim comes in. While it’s not verified that he was actually exposed to any Lazarus water I still firmly believe that he was. I’ve talked about this in another post, but for those who aren’t aware, during the Red Robin comic run Tim was severely injured while Ra’s was trying to recruit him. He needed an emergency splenectomy and when he awoke from that he was in a Lazarus chamber, a non-sterile underground cave. Tim’s injury was severe and he aggravated it with a lot of activity before getting medical attention. Tim never died and he was never put directly in the pit, but I’m reasonably certain that part of his treatment involved Lazarus water, considering his ease of recovery, lack of death, and the presence of a Lazarus pit.

So between Tim and Jason we have two cases for comparison. This is of course in no way a valid data set to draw conclusions from in real life, but since we’re talking about fiction and making up logic and explanations for things that originally had none, I think it’s enough. There are others who have history with the pits, but since, as far as I’m aware, they don’t have comics of their own giving deep insight into their thoughts and plans and actions, it’s very difficult to analyze them properly (with the possible exception of Damian, who I would include if I had actually read the comics he was revived with a Lazarus pit in).

In the time directly following exposure to the Lazarus water both Tim and Jason did show signs of elevated adrenaline, which could lead people to assume that the pit is the cause, however as both of them we actually in immediate danger it’s difficult to say for certain. Tim was in an unfamiliar place, alone with an enemy, in the same room as a substance he knew to be dangerous. Jason was being chased by hoards of assassins, being led by someone he couldn’t quite recognize and then (if memory serves) pushed off a cliff into the ocean near a boat that he had to use to escape from an island, all while very confused because the last thing he remembered is dying and maybe vaguely clawing his way out of his own grave. So. Adrenaline seems like a natural response.

To me, the biggest immediate symptom looks like susceptibility to suggestions, with Jason’s quick trust in Talia and Tim’s acceptance of the White Ghost’s explanation of events and his subsequent alliance with the League of Assassins. While neither of them fully trusted the people I mentioned, they did go along with them easier than would be expected, as well as for longer than I think they normally would have. Their paranoia kept them from fully trusting anyone but there was a disconnect between that conscious paranoia and their reactions that makes me think the pit is responsible. There’s also the fact that in the Gotham Knights game this susceptibility to suggestion is an important part of the Pit’s side effects, though it’s less noticeable the less a person has used the pits. While the game definitely played up all the effects of the pit, it is an official DC game which leads me to lend some credence to its fundamental lore.

The other major mental side effect I believe the pit imposes on its users has to do with logical thinking about cause and effect. This is a bit more nuanced and difficult to explain but I’ll do my best.

We know that as the Red Hood Jason had strict rules about hurting kids. We also know that he brutally beat Tim when he was still a kid and had no problem with it. I don’t think it’s because he didn’t see Tim as a kid or because he was able to justify it by saying that Tim signed up for it. I think it simply didn’t occur to him. All he could see was how his actions would affect Batman. His understanding of cause and effect was so narrow that he couldn’t even imagine that his actions would affect anything other than what he intended them too. The attack was a message to Batman and Robin, it didn’t cross his mind that it could have any other consequences or that Robin was an actual person and not an extension of Batman or a symbol of Bruce’s perceived betrayal.

We see this same goal oriented logical disconnect again when Tim betrays the League of Assassins. He spent his time with the League doing everything he could to avoid killing or ordering anyone else to kill. He is adamant about not killing anyone and returning to his black and white morality as soon as he could. When he sabotaged the League computers and caused every single connected system to detonate his only thoughts were about the message he was sending Ra’s, that he would never be his ally and that he would always be loyal to Batman. He couldn’t even imagine that in doing this he probably caused countless deaths of people all over the globe, some of whom were probably innocent servants or prisoners. His awareness of the potential lethality of his actions began and ended with the survival of the Council of Spiders, who he thought probably escaped in time. I don’t think he ever realized that he’d probably killed people, and since his exposure to the pits was minimal I think it may have worn off before he ever encountered a situation where it was relevant again.

Actually this effect is observable in Ra’s as well and probably has been since his introduction. People seem to have forgotten that Ra’s is an ecoterrorist who’s goal is protecting the planet and keeping human civilization in check. The League’s original purpose was precision elimination of politicians and businessmen and scientists who could threaten the natural balance of the world. Sometimes they had to eliminate entire civilizations or cities to keep humanities progress in check. Obviously they didn’t succeed and their goal changed to mass genocide, which is how Bruce came to know of their existence in some continuities, but once Ra’s health started declining the focus of the organization turned to self preservation and maintaining power. All this is to say that Ra’s strayed very far from his original goal of preserving the natural balance of the world, and somewhere along the way he ended up so focused on keeping humanity in check that he forgot about actually preserving the world and all its other inhabitants and ecosystems, some of his actions and plans actively endangering what he wanted to protect in the first place.

So, to summarize, the Lazarus Pit doesn’t affect mood or impulsivity or identity, it blocks certain neural pathways and impedes logic and one’s ability to see the bigger picture beyond their goals. Those affected by Lazarus water retain their identity, sense of self, and emotional control, but lose logical comprehension of cause and effect and become more susceptible to suggestion.

[batfambyval]

so originally Jason was buried in Gotham Cemetery, which i think makes his whole ‘disorientatedly breaking out of his own grave’ thing so much funnier. because like. that’s a public graveyard. there’s probably walkways going through it that people take to get to work or school every day. and i know a lot of people retcon that with the excuse of the loa cleaning up the broken grave so that they can keep Jason away from Bruce, but what if they just. didn’t?

Gotham is a fucked up place, and the people that live there are so used to it by now. they don’t bat an eye at the vigilantes, the fear gas, the clowns-, they have been desensitised to the weird and unexplainable. so i imagine with the fact that Bruce Wayne’s dead son’s gravesite suddenly becoming the CLEAR location of a broken out corpse, with the scratch marks on the inside of a burrowed out coffin, mud and dirt bursting up in the way that could only happen if something was emerging from below, the probably muddy footsteps leading away, not to, away from, the grave…

what i’m saying is the general public of Gotham are probably well fucking aware that there’s a zombie Jason Todd walking around somewhere, and they’ve all just collectively decided to mind their own fucking business.

there’s no new zombie-rogues, no people being eaten, and after a week or so the caretaker of the cemetery sighed and filled in the mess anyway, so nobody really thinks to mention it. of course, the Waynes are too overwhelmed by grief to ever go to Jason’s grave, and people are too scared to bring up such a sensitive subject with them, so it gets to the point where literally everyone in Gotham knows that Jason is probably alive…. but his family.

Jason comes back to Gotham as Red Hood and he doesn’t even try to have a secret identity as a civilian. nobody fucking cares. he just gets an apartment and starts walking around during the day and everyone who recognises him as Jason is just like ‘heyy! glad to see you back man, we were wondering where you’d popped off to!’. literally nobody gives a shit.

(Tim knows. he used to walk through that graveyard to get home from school, he’s known from the beginning. he knows that whatever Jason’s staying away for is his own business, and to be honest he really didn’t want to be the messenger for that particular shitstorm of information. politely, he will not be touching that with a ten foot pole.)

(Damian knew before he even came to Gotham. quite frankly, his opinion on his father dropped astronomically when he found out his English teacher knew of his brother’s residence in Crime Alley and Bruce didn’t. it’s more entertaining for him to just sit back and watch anyway. he too, refuses to say shit.)

Eventually the news reaches the upper side of Gotham, who all immediately assume that if Jason’s walking around again then the Wayne’s must of course be aware of it, so they never think to bring it up then, either. but Jason Todd-Wayne is back, and there’s always been a special fondness for that cute little street kid who nervously started getting brought along to galas and tried his absolute best to fit in and be polite, even if half the time he ended up fucking around with Dick or that Drake kid in the corner to pass the time. so if he’s back, then the elites all immediately assume that he is once again going to be a part of higher Gotham society.

so Jason Todd, secretly the Red Hood Jason Todd, hiding from his family Jason Todd, living in a shitty apartment safe house with two pieces of furniture and a lot of swords Jason Todd, starts getting invites to high-end events from all the city elites. he doesn’t even know how they got his address.

but well, he was free that evening… and he couldn’t deny that it might be a little bit funny…

his identity reveal ends up being much less explosive than originally planned, but it sure is entertaining. at least for him. Damian and Tim looked positively suicidal the whole night.

[batfambyval]

Not to mention Camren Bicondova as Selina Kyle being the real main character even though it’s a cop show and she’s a little girl and a minor criminal in the beginning and despite having no connection to anything other than being in all the wrong places at all the wrong times she’s somehow involved in just about every insane plot line going on at all times and associates with every other character on the show without discrimination even if they’re holier-than-thou-cops or bat shit insane serial killers or socially stunted rich kids and somehow despite being the epitome of the shapeshifter archetype she always remains true to herself and her values and has consistent characterization.

half of the writers room for gotham (2014-2019) was fully convinced it was a gritty hypermasculine cable cop show and the other half believed they were writing a batman 1966 spiritual successor for the dark cabaret crowd and all of them had conflicting fetishes and every episode was called something like i brought you my bullets you brought me your love and jada pinkett smith had the ghosts of several silver screen divas within her wrestling for control of her performance at all times and they always set aside some time for the penguin serve segment, where robin lord taylor as oswald cobblepot would appear onscreen with his slicked down spiky bangs and cunt it up in ways that the world hadn’t seen since edmund said now gods stand up for bastards in the very first performance of king lear. and nobody involved had ever seen a tv show before so it can’t be judged within those terms.

[batfambyval]

[batfambyval]

Well parts of the Nolan movies were also filmed in Chicago so….

Why can’t real life cities be 10 mile tall gothic metropolises with red and black and skulls and statues of weeping saints everywhere

[batfambyval]

Ok but just imagine Barbra Gordon finding out her mom dated Ra’s al Ghul… like how would that even go????? Omg what if Damian accidentally revealed it! That would be hilarious! Honestly Barbara Gordon learning anything about Barbara Kean has so much potential for either angst or humor. Like yeah I know she was raised by her for ten years but I seriously doubt Barbara told her daughter everything she got up to before she was born. I mean how do you tell your kid that you used to be one of the most wanted criminals in the city or that you tried to kill her father multiple times or that you died and came back to life? I just want to see Batgirl or Oracle dealing with the history her name carries with the entire Gotham underground. Omg and what about if Riddler or Penguin found out her identity and suddenly they just have no idea how to feel about her. Like yeah she’s a Bat but she’s also Barbara Kean’s daughter, not to mention Jim Gordon’s and also kinda Leslie Thompkin’s and that’s gotta be really confusing for both of them. Cause Ed was friends and enemies with both her bio parents and used to be romantically involved with her step mom, and Oswald had his crush on Jim and friendship with Babs before she betrayed him and then they were all allies again for a bit during no man’s land and both of them were there for the pregnancy and like how can they fight this kid but also god the HATE her parents sometimes and also she keeps ruining their plans!!!! Omg so much potential!

Someone needs write a fic about Barbara Gordon navigating life as a Gotham vigilante with family ties to like every rogue in the city and no one knowing how to feel about it please please please

[batfambyval]

Tim and Bruce getting into an argument bcs Tim demands to be independent and NOT get involved in the mess of being a legal part of the Wayne family, and Bruce being final on the fact that Tim is FIFTEEN and needs a legal guardian. out of spite Tim asks the person he thinks Bruce would approve of as a guardian the least to sign some guardian papers.

Tim: you don’t have to do anything parental i just REALLY wanna make Batman mad and i get the sense that our wishes align on that specific aspect so if you could just sign here for shits and giggles-

Red Hood:

Red Hood, rapidly changing his plans on how to deal with getting revenge on Bruce because his replacement is actually kinda hysterical: if we’re doing this we’re fucking doing it right, kid

Bruce shows up to Tim’s next parent teacher conference because hey just because he’s being given the silent treatment over this whole adoption thing doesn’t mean he’s going to slack off on his parental duties, only to freeze in the doorway because Tim Drake-Hood is stood there with his shiny new CRIME LORD LEGAL GUARDIAN giving him the most SHIT EATING GRIN POSSIBLE, and he almost has a panic attack on the spot.

Jason’s really getting into this whole caretaker thing. he’s doing school runs, delivering home cooked meals to Drake manor, helping with homework, this was his fucking CALLING. Tim is having the time of his life because him and Hood actually get along really well, but then he realises two weeks in that it turns out Hood is actually Jason fucking Todd, and he has to deal with the existential crisis of causing the very thing he was trying to stop because he is now technically a legal child of the Wayne family.

out of embarrassment for the fact that he failed and amazement at the fact that he’s bonding so well with Bruce’s dead kid and his own childhood hero (who is now a badass crime lord that lets him call for advice about english assignments while organising drug runs and picks up batburger on his way home from weapon shipments, seriously what more could Tim want in a parent), Tim somehow becomes even more invested in hiding Red Hood’s identity than Jason is.

Bruce has just been in a constant state of panic for the past three months and he doesn’t know what to fucking do. Dick was concerned for Tim up until he demanded to have dinner with him and his new ‘guardian’ to vet the guy and Jason, who stopped caring about his identity when he realised how much being a working dad agrees with his mental health and is only actively keeping his identity from Bruce for Tim’s pride’s sake, takes off his helmet to eat and Dick stares at him frozen for fifteen minutes across the table before finally pointing at the two and saying ‘you know what? he didn’t even tell me Jason was dead until after the funeral. whatever the fuck’s going on here? he has it coming. proceed.’

[batfambyval]

Gotham has some of the best most nuanced long lasting female antagonists (and protagonists too to be honest) and I really wish they got more attention in the fandom! Like Barbara Kean (Queen) is RIGHT THERE who cares about Oswald Cobblepot and his pathetic relationship drama full of murder and betrayal and friendship when she’s got all of that but BETTER with Tabitha Galavan?

Why are all the fantastic female characters ignored? What about Selina Kyle, Lee Thompkins, Ivy Pepper, Bridget Pike, Silver St. Cloud, Fish Mooney, or my girl Liza?! Why do the men get so much attention when Babs and Tabs are right there basically carrying the whole show since season 2?!

I’m mad about it okay?!

[batfambyval]

What people forget about Bruce’s character far too often is that he doesn’t just refuse to kill his Rogues, he also pours money into getting them rehabilitated and the best psychiatric care he can. The money he pours into Arkham isn’t just for security. His refusal to kill the Joker is, in his mind, balanced by the sincere attempts to cure him. He doesn’t give up on people, that’s not who he is. He doesn’t toss them away and try to forget, he monitors their progress and does his best to help.

Depending on which version of the Joker you’re talking about this approach can make more or less sense. In a lot of timelines the Joker’s madness is not his own, it’s not naturally occurring and he was a normal person before being exposed to dangerous chemicals that altered his personality. In these universes it makes sense that Bruce holds out hope for a cure, that he maybe doesn’t blame the Joker as much for what he’s become. In the Gotham TV universe it makes even more sense since Bruce was actually friends with Jeremiah before he became a cartoonishly evil villain.

It’s a really sad misunderstanding of Bruce’s fundamental character. He never ignores the danger the criminals he puts away pose, he just doesn’t see killing them as a valid solution, which also makes sense considering how many of his villains keep dying and coming back to life! He wants to help them not want or need to commit crime because in a city like Gotham where both prisons and coffins have revolving doors it’s actually the most rational response to crime.

[batfambyval]

Dick's commitment issues (?)

Jason: You have the worst commitment issues I’ve ever seen.

Dick: Excuse me?! I don’t have commitment issues... I commit to everything. Jobs? Had like six. Identities? I’m legally at least four different people. Trauma responses? Baby bro, I’ve been loyal to mine since I was eight.

Jason: …That is deeply unsettling.

Tim: *muttering* At this point even the Joker has a stabler identity.

[batfambyval]

This is exactly what happened with Jason and the All Caste lol

[being told they're the chosen one]

Damian: I will not let you down.

Cassandra: Sounds fun.

Tim: K.

Jason: No I'm fucking not.

Duke: Do I have to be?

Dick: Please no, I am so tired.

[batfambyval]

Tim: You know something you two have in common?

Jason: Spite for the ages?

Dick: Crackin’ tits and a fat ass?

Jason: No will to live and yet the inability to die?

Dick: Beauty and grace, like the queen of 50 states?

Tim:

Jason:

Dick:

Tim: I was going to say “an uncanny ability to annoy everyone in this house with ruthless efficiency,” but your answers were… passable.

[batfambyval]

Well of course he’s on the floor, last time he became Batman he went on a murderous rampage and took over half of the US and brought a bunch of othe Titans to the dark side with him. This boy is absolutely terrified of becoming Batman.

Jason: Why is Tim laying face down on the floor?

Steph: He took a "which Justice League member are you" quiz.

Jason: And?

Steph: He got Batman.