#Just let us be endogenic and support other endogenics?

[floral-atom-collective]

constantly blocking otherwise cool people cause they hate our existence

Yay!! /sarc /neg

[amity-moonrise]

Its been ages before I have had to speak up about someone elses harmful actions since that system hottake blog.

But I am actually done just sitting around doing nothing when anti endos like this person are encouraging bullying towards endogenic systems

This doesn’t make me any less anti endo, nor does it mean that we support endogenic systems, in fact, we personally don’t believe that it’s even possible to be endogenic and that most of them are either:

- misguided by those who prey on minors (like sophie),

- have DID but don’t remember their trauma,

- are confusing their symptoms for DID when they probably have a different disorder,

- are experiencing something that no one is able to give a proper name to so they make it sound like a CDD when it’s clearly not,

- or are just straight up insane (ahem, like sophie)

You do not, under any circumstances, bully people, even if they have hurt you or you really really hate them to the core. “Oh but endos are evil, they’re ableist scums of the earth and they constantly hurt us and shit-” YOU DONT STOOP TO THEIR LEVEL.

Wanna know why they absolutely despise us? This is why

When you give radical anti endos a platform to speak, a platform to target endos who are most likely just trying to exist, you get people bullying them. You get people who are attacking the other community and harassing them. When you enable radical anti endos a platform to speak, you are hurting both communities

Anti endos have been fighting for ages to get basic respect from the other side and to just be left alone and not have people roleplay or romanticize the disorder, but radicals literally undo all the hard work by giving pro endos a reason to bully and harass back and invalidate all of us because of a select few, which is also exactly how we treat them when we are being attacked by people like sophieinwonderland or other radical pro endos

I could probably guarantee you that the majority of the system community just wants this useless fighting to stop and for all the bullying, harassment, and ableism to stop. I can guarantee you that most people on BOTH sides are not fully one or the other, and that we fall closer to the middle and have nuanced stances on certain topics. We are not robots, we have complex opinions, and syscourse is no exception.

If you don’t want the other side to interact with you then block them and set your boundaries. Filter out tags you don’t want to see, block people like this person who you know are toxic and hurt people regardless of what their stances are. You are responsible for how you want to interact and contribute to the community. It is your responsibility to be the better person.

And if you see problems within your own community, SPEAK UP ABOUT IT. When you stay silent knowing that you have seen the problems that exist within the community, you are complicit in the bullying and harassment. You are letting radicals dictate the reputation of your community. This goes for both anti and pro endos. Stop staying silent, otherwise nothing will change.

I know this system community can do better. I have seen the good from both sides. We really should stop fighting and actually respect each other and understand that our experiences are different from one another and it doesn’t automatically make their experiences invalid just because they don’t match yours. Who knows, if we can actually get along we would be a lot more empathetic towards each other and maybe, JUST MAYBE, we could stop the actually ableist fuckers and the bullies who are ruining it for everyone. We could actually work together and take down harmful spaces like r/syscringe and r/fakedisordercringe, these harm BOTH COMMUNITIES and are places that ENABLE BULLYING AND FAKECLAIMING.

Nothing gets done when people stay silent, when people stay divided, and when you ignore the problems in your own community that the opposition has constantly been highlighting on for ages. Learn what makes someone radical in their beliefs, learn the difference between what is actually wrong versus what is just an opinion that conflicts with your own beliefs because those two are NOT the same. Learn to stay away from toxic spaces and warn others of these places, like the K9 Cave server on discord or r/syscringe on reddit. Educate yourself, not just on CDDs and how they actually work but also on endogenic experiences and how they affect people who genuinely believe that they are endogenic. You may not personally believe in them, but if you stay educated on these topics then it benefits both communities and you could actually help someone who may have something misunderstood or is unknowingly spreading misinformation about it. You really can’t expect pro endos and endos to do their research about CDDs but then also not listen to their experiences and their ideas on the complexities of plurality. You don’t have to agree with it, but if you refuse to even listen to them then its pretty hypocritical to ask them to listen to you.

I don’t have to accept their experiences as pure fact or scientifically proven, but I can respect it and be empathetic instead of bullying them and understand that in reality, we don’t know everything. I shouldn’t have to risk “looking like a pro endo” or seem like I am siding with them when I am very much anti endo to get this point across:

That bullying someone for having completely different opinions, views, and experiences is wrong, and you cannot justify it.

I’m not here to say that “oh endos are valid” or “oh endos are invalid” that is not my point. My point is that even if you don’t share the same views, opinions and experiences with them, you have no right to bully them.

There is a fuckton that we don’t know. This world is already against all of us in general. The best we can do is work together and have basic respect for each other. Just, basic respect, you don’t even need to interact with the other side, just respect each others boundaries.

Please reblog and share this, both anti and pro endos. And please don’t go harassing this person, don’t give them a reason to target you. This post is incredibly important for both communities especially since the rise of bullying from BOTH sides has caused extreme turmoil for those who end up getting caught in the crossfire.

[sophieinwonderland]

Rebutting a document used by sysmeds in the bullying of the Yaelokre server

For anyone who doesn't know, moderators of the Yaelokre server were repeatedly harassed and bullied by system medicalists until Yaelokre ultimately deleted the server. While I don't know a lot about the harassment campaign, this screenshot calling the mods crazy for being accepting of people not breaking their rules shows a brief taste.

After getting it deleted, another Twitter user even bragged about it!

Bigots are rejoicing and celebrating destroying something people loved.

I'm not going to reply to every hateful thing they said on Twitter, but I at least wanted to take a moment debunk their poorly made document.

Right from the start, I want to remind everyone that the plural label was coined by non-disordered systems in the 90s. Learn your history. Because it's bizarre to watch a hate group steal the language we created while trying to get us banned from spaces.

The author is lying about what endogenic systems are here.

Endogenic systems are systems who are plural for reasons other than trauma. Most do not have DID or OSDD, and do not claim to.

I'm going to skip over their screenshot because it's not relevant, and instead provide one from the ICD-11 stating that you don't need a disorder to have multiple "distinct identity states." Which is the same phrase the ICD-11 uses for alters

The doc goes on to cite the theory of structural dissociation.

But in one paper, the authors of that very theory stated that there may be "self-conscious dissociative parts" that don't require trauma or a disorder.

So the World Health Organization says you can be plural without trauma or a disorder. And so do the creators of the theory you're citing!

Yup! Supporting endogenic systems isn't ableist!

Actually, taking a step back, shouldn't you have tried to argue that supporting endogenic systems is ableist before just asserting that it is? I mean, all you said so far is that it's incorrect (which is wrong) and that many systems don't remember their trauma.

And surely that point about forgetting trauma undercuts your ableism claim. Because even if endogenic systems weren't real (we are), you would be arguing for getting rid of members of the server for... not remembering their trauma?

You are literally advocating banning innocent people for a symptom of their disorder and you have the nerve to accuse the mods of being the ableist ones for not going along with that?

And see, THIS is why I said you were lying about what an endogenic systems is. Here you have someone who explains that endogenic systems don't claim to have a disorder, and YOU SCREENSHOTTED THEM!

You KNEW you were lying about what endogenic systems were and you CHOSE to lie anyway, you worthless affront to humanity!

Who cares who they let use Pluralkit?

The creators of plurakit are pro-endo! It's not yours to gatekeep! You would probably try to get the creators of pluralkit banned too if they were in that server. Your whole community is little more than a disease that destroys everything it touches.

I generally try to be more composed through these, but this was a community that people enjoyed and found comfort in, and you destroyed it.

You bullied and harassed innocent people for not being as vile and disgusting and rotten as you, and then celebrated when you successfully got rid of it.

[systematic-breakdown]

It’s almost as if plurality is a very broad spectrum and not all endogenic systems will have the same experiences or fit into the same box. It’s almost as if plurality is merely one symptom of dissociative disorders and it’s actually quite possible to exhibit a single symptom of a disorder without actually having the disorder itself.

Just because someone has an intense interest or passion, would you call them autistic? Of course not, because autism presents with a wide range of symptoms. Just like dissociative disorders. Just like any mental disorder. You need multiple qualifying symptoms in order to be diagnosed. And a lot of plural people (endogenic or otherwise) just don’t have the other symptoms necessary for a dissociative disorder diagnosis.

not that I'm obligated to entertain someone who doesn't have the balls to do this off-anon, but I feel like talking to a brick wall today. lucky you.

I want to let you know off the bat that nothing you or anyone says without linking at least one actual, proper research article (e.g. reliably sourced, no COI, no baseless claims, researchers cite their sources if they aren't directly referencing the study, unbiased, ecological validity, etc) will have any impact. I tell you this now to give you the opportunity to stop here and save yourself the time and effort of developing a counter-argument that won't be responded to productively or (potentially) at all.

I am of the belief that it is of great importance to be critical of everything you read, even if it supports your claim. a lot of y'all tend to just take these papers at face value without actually thinking critically about it or what it says because you're too focused on "this supports the thing I think!" to properly examine and analyze it for flaws.

I understand that non-dissociative plurality is fairly new to the medical field, but that does not negate the fact that classic AND contemporary research supports the idea that being a system is rooted in trauma. that does not negate the fact that most classic and contemporary research papers emphasize the fact that “plurality” is heavily tied to ACEs, lack of support, and the child's inclination towards creativity and use of imagination. your brain, like everyones, does not want to form barriers. it is forced into forming barriers. it wants to be as whole as it can get because that is how we have survived as a species. that's why integration occurs during childhood/before the start of puberty in the first place. the only reason some people have barriers and others don't is because their brain (our brain) recognized that it would be incapable of function and, in that, survival if it had integrated like it is biologically predisposed to do.

obviously older research papers have their own issues, but those are typically resolved after being re-examined and reframed contemporarily. even so, it's important to critique these older pieces in natural and regular settings to prevent a setback in the current understanding of research as a whole (not just in the context of systems). this same process needs to occur with newer pieces on "multiplicity" outside of OSDDID for the exact reason that it is a new field of study greatly impacted by the accessibility of the internet and the inescapable online influence that is present in most participants as a result.

you don't have to convince anyone that your point is the correct one, just as I don't have to convince anyone of that either. I just enjoy expressing my opinions and find it nice that there is direct feedback when posting publicly. it just so happens that my opinions are heavily based in research and medical fact, whereas the extent of "research" for many endogenics (and most people looking into online system communities) won’t go beyond blog posts and the 5-10 articles (all of which have their own issues) that are floating around your spaces. not unlike what you are exhibiting here. it is very easy to find proper articles on OSDDID, trauma, and dissociation, hence why I'm not including any here - you could fact check me all day long and still have things to read (I encourage you to do so). not so much for "plurality" outside of that. where are your sources? where is your evidence? making claims like this without having anything to back it up is a surefire way of spreading misinformation which, as I’m sure I’ve said before, is something I would much rather avoid.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but “plurality” is not a spectrum. yes, it is possible to exhibit symptoms without having a disorder, but that's just not how it works with trauma-based disorders like OSDDID. comparing the symptoms of a trauma-based disorder to the symptoms of a neurodevelopmental disorder isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. and before you say "well, endos aren't trauma based disorders!" the suffix "-genic" implies a correlation between the two, there isn't a single source I've seen that proves beyond a reasonable scientific doubt that "plurality" the way it's described by endogenics outside of trauma is possible, and there are plenty of endogenics who do claim to have trauma but that their "system" occurred outside of that. given the current understanding of how “plurality” and it's direct correlation to trauma works, that simply isn't possible.

a lot of endogenics do actually qualify for dissociative disorders without realizing it. and the ones who don't just aren't "plural". there are a ton of disorder cocktails that mimic the symptoms of OSDDID (including feeling "plural") almost to a tee. and to address the “non-disordered” claim: it’s okay to have a big imagination and to find comfort in that. that doesn’t make someone a system. or “plural”, if we’re going with that concept.

recently, I saw a post talking about "median systems" and the "midcontinuum". I ended up going down a rabbit hole of sorts and found, unsurprisingly, that the "midcontinuum" was based in very old, very undeveloped research relating to DID (or MPD, as it was referred to more often than not in the MANY first person accounts I read through). I went through about 80-90 different links, most of them being blog/social media posts as there was very little research done into this, and every single one could be linked to some form of OSDD, P-DID, or a mix of trauma, autism, OCD, ADHD, etc. (all connected by their - need I remind you - self reported imaginative abilities and propensity for creative outlets) and that was just from the symptoms that they themselves claimed to have.

you're not required to educate people on something you so strongly believe in, but if that's what you want to do, it's considered good practice if you provide valid sources instead of varying first person accounts. even more so in this new age of internet, where anyone can be anything and theres really no way of knowing the truth.

in all honestly - if you want my opinion - none of these labels matter. in microlabeling every experience, every symptom, every presentation; in giving name to everything pathological outside of our personal experiences with healthcare, I think we’ve all ended up doing a lot more harm than good.

I had something in our drafts already talking about this but I guess I can put it here: everyone seems to have forgotten that the whole point of putting a name to these experiences was for classification and insurance. it's helped create community, of course, but whatever the name it has is unimportant as long as it's dealt with healthily. splitting is not healthy. dissociating is not healthy. forcing alters to form is not healthy. these things aren’t necessarily “bad”, but they aren’t “good” either. the existence of alters is not what is tended to in therapy, the underlying trauma and the "why" of their formation is. that is where the focus needs to be. "why".

sure, it can be fun coming up with new terms, playing with the concept of "plurality", or exploring adverse reactions to trauma - we as people are naturally curious, so of course we want to understand ourselves and our relationship with the world around us - but please do not let this discourse or the community take the attention away from that "why". this is about self exploration, right? then don’t let the ideas and opinions of others inhibit you from delving into yourself. don’t let the pathologising of every experience take you away from yourself. let it be about self-exploration.

[formidablefangs]

Honestly tiring that this needs to be said and reiterated so often.

A system is a defense mechanism created by the brain as a reaction to a traumatic even (typically multiple) during childhood development. It's the disruption of the development of self and a covert disorder.

So terms like system, multiple and (though we personally dislike this one) plural, are therefore medical terms in the context of a disorder.

Basic proper research should show this.

This is why the community tries so hard to defend its terms and repeats that being a system is a neurological and psychological medical matter.

This is why we hate the fact that there are people using our terms and claiming to have the expirience of our disorder without the required points of diagnosis that make it happen.

We're upset because there are people:

A) grooming minors and others with disinformation and misinformation into believing something either they dont have or that's the wrong thing they're experiencing entirely.

B) claiming to have a similar expirience to us without bothering to properly look into it

C) have something else but plaster pur terms over it to try and pretend to be like us.

Yes some endos might just not remember their trauma, that's normal and exactly how the brain will work with this disorder.

Yes sometimes they actually just dont have the disorder and instead have something else or multiple other things that are going undiagnosed because they believe in false information.

Yes a lot of them are just looking for a place to fit in because that is human and what our brains need when we're going through things.

But for God sake we know more about how the brain works than people let on, there is documented research and still more research being done and if this misinformation/disinformation continues to spread and people continue to try to pander to and normalize endos then it will halt that research and stigmatize the disorder so it will be even harder for us to get help than it already is.

And on top of that if they cant just find something else to further separate from us, stop using system terms and use something more disconnected than they need to halt what they're doing now and do something else until they can figure it out.

Alters are pieces of the brain, parts of a whole self that failed to develop properly, they form from multiple things outside just trauma and trauma can be anything. But that doesnt mean alters that form from sources unrelated to trauma arent still "traumagenic", the system itself formed from trauma therefore all the alters and parts of the system follow suit in the defense mechanism the brain has made to cope.

Parts of you cannot move to someone elses brain.

Parts of you cannot die, but instead change. Theh fuse, split into different parts, go dormant but they cant die because they're a part of your self, a facet of you in your brain, and you as a person whole or not can change.

Parts of you that function as the brain does.

Alters exist for comfort, managing symptoms, dealing with memories, organizing the system, calming other alters, helping with daily or work or school tasks, every aspect of your mind and life the brain has developed a way of dealing with it through the system. Relationships and the bad things like intrusive thoughts included.

I sincerely hope that those who call themselves endo, those who use "system" terms under the endogenic umbrella and their supporters understand this, understand how the brain works and at least try to accept it.

I know we hate being put in a box, that people hate when things are restricted to a box, but with things like this medical condition, a disorder related to the function of the brain and psyche, the box is there for a reason to help understand how said thing works. Trying to force it outside the box is only hurting those who have it.

Systems are systems because of what happened to them. The expirience is different for everyone but theres a template in place to guide the understanding of it logically.

The fighting is tiring, people have talked it to exhaustion and to the people who continue to refuse to listen and instead chose to perpetuate the ignorance, I hope you can take a breather from the internet for a while and find something better to get into than this.

Its genuinely exhausting.

[maryland-officially]

Ok I'm genuinely confused here so don't be mean please. All of this is /genq /nbr

I have a dissociation disorder and I'm questioning plurality (I would be considered traumagenic if I am 1). From my understanding of systems, they're formed through trauma that happens before the age of ten. The brain puts up amnesia barriers and the child's personality doesn't form correctly, so multiple alters are formed instead.

Endos confuse me. They're systems that say they somehow did this without trauma? How do they fit into this? Like, I want to be supportive but some of the rhetoric I've seen genuinely pushed me into a panic attack once (it was a post saying basically you can just make headmates whenever if you want and for fun, you don't need trauma or anything which I think made me upset cos... Why would someone want to be a system and how could they view it as a whole as fun?? & the idea you could just manifest it out of thin air confuses me deeply)

I'm sorry if you don't want asks like this but you're a relatively big blog and I've just seen you say you support endos so I figured you'd be a good person to ask.

Explanation below cut because it got long ^^

Ah, well. Most, if not like all endogenic systems, are non-disordered or use that term.

Endogenic systems can form in many different ways -- we're traumagenic, but we're pretty sure there are some endo alters, and we usually find them by talking into the void of the brain and getting a response that isn't from somebody established-- I'm sorry, this isn't very helpful, but think about it like:

Talking to yourself in your brain, and then suddenly you realize that you do not in fact control the person/alter replying, and that is not you. That's kind of what it's like.

Think of a cave:

At first, you think the echo is yourself. And it probably is, or it could be. And then the echo doesn't say what you say anymore -- it changes it and it isn't exactly 'you' speaking. Well the brain is the cave and the echo is a headmate forming.

This is the way that WE know about when alters form. It's a bit like this. We/a member thinks that we/they're thinking to our/themselves, and then bam. somebody different. not formed from stress or trauma

I'm sure there are other ways this could happen,, but none that we know of

so instead of uhm

I've seen this diagram/things like it to describe DID + plurality, so I'll explain with this.

This is an adult brain

This is a child's brain

This is the child's brain developing

With this model, DID (from what I've seen,,) looks like this.

The circles spread out, and might combine into large circles between themselves but not a full one as the brain develops

I'm not sure how accurate this model is, but I've seen people use it to describe DID. This is a sort of simplified version that makes more sense but is probably less detailed

Anyway let's say an endogenic systems starts as a large circle -- though,, this might not always be correct and is probably not majorly correct, since brains take a while to develop (im so sorry if this diagram is confusing. The circles are supposed to resemble child's thoughts/personality traits and how they assemble into a person. Or at least i think--)

Well anyway, an endogenic systems would look like this in my brain:

A part of the person kind of drifts off into its own thing

And then it might turn out like this

Sometimes there's a piece that there's no way to know where came from. They just kind of appear. They might have dropped from the brain, who knows? It can be hard to tell.

These can be fictives, or other alters.

Anyway this is my take/diagram on how endo systems form. It's probably inaccurate, but hopefully we got it mostly right ;;

[anameistoohard]

Oh boy, lets open that can of worms

There's a LOT of discourse with endo vs anti-endo stuff (endogenic system=plural system not formed by trauma if you don't know 🙂). Like, death threats coming from both sides kinda thing. We try to stay out of it. But it's easy to accidentally stumble into it if you're not familiar with some of the nuance. So we want to share some observations as like, a crash course. (And apparently we had a lot to say lol.)

This post isn't really to debate how plurality forms. Just to give some context as to why so much hate is flying between these two groups.

Basically, you have 2 extremes. (And everyone in between obviously)

On one side you have people making up extra rules on top of the diagnostic criteria to exclude and gatekeep anyone who doesn't meet "their level" of disordered. (I've literally heard people say "you can't be a system, you're not as traumatized as me"). A lot of accusations of faking come from this bunch. Too much internal communication? Faker. Too many non-human alters? Faker. Too many or not enough alters? Faker. You can't win with them even if you have a diagnosis.

We've noticed a lot of parallels between this group and transmeds. You need to have x level of dysphoria to ride this ride. You can't be trans if you don't want xyz treatment. You need to reach my arbitrary bar of "trans enough". Enbys and everyone else are fakers. That kind of bs.

But on this side you also have a lot of people who just want to be taken seriously. They want to be validated by their diagnosis and feel hurt when people say or do things that they think will compromise that validity. They, at least initially, come from a place of sincerity not malice. But they fall into the trap of trying to be "one of the good ones".

On the other extreme you have the wild west. Things people treat as fact aren't codified with the same scrutiny as the DSM-5 or ICD-11. This breeds its own confusion and misinformation. We've seen people conflate plurality with things like maladaptive day dreaming, lucid dreaming, adhd, and (applying it to other people with ferocity to the point of harassment) metaphors of all things.

They have a spaghetti at the wall approach that reminds me of a less extreme MOGII (an attempt to define just about every possible form of gender and sexuality). It's a messy patchwork of ideas. We've seen 8 different labels that all mean the same thing and are being used by exactly no one. Redundancy and hyperspcificity, that's the name of the game. But frankly we like this if for no other reason than we want to see what sticks, what becomes mainstream.

We've seen people from this group attack people as badly as the anti-endo group. Openly mocking people for having trauma or saying vile shit like "traumagenics kys". They feel threatened by the exclusionary nature of diagnoses. But instead of taking their frustration out on the systems of power they take them out on normal people. After all if you're diagnosed, you "represent the system"... I guess. Equally bull shit.

But this is also where the edge cases go, the exclusions, those that don't fit into a neat little box. The DSM excludes people whose plurality is accepted as part of their culture or religion. These people don't suddenly stop being systems just because they're accepted, but they're distinctly not disordered. They don't meet the clinical definition of DID or OSDD. Same goes for someone whose symptoms are mild enough to not cause "clinically significant distress". You also have people who don't want to be pathologized or have been failed by the medical system.

So lastly, a warning: When dealing with plural stuff, it's very easy to go stumbling into a mine field.

Tldr: I would always rather land on the side of letting too many people in than exclude people who needed the support. However, no matter your in-group, some people take things too far. Like, ffs don't attack people. 

-Taylor & Mark

[sysmedsaresexist]

do you mind elaborating on why endogenic plurality cannot present as a CDD when exposed to extensive trauma?

like, i can see why an endogenic plural facing extensive trauma in adulthood wouldnt, however if someone was a system by age 9 with no childhood trauma and then faced severe bullying from teachers/peers with minimal support from parents could that not cause dissociative symptoms to affect their system?

i agree on using resources that help you, and i firmly believe that no resources for trauma should be blocked behind syscourse/other discourse labels, but im still struggling to understand how if endogenic plurality presents as a CDD why it would be classified as one

I want to answer this very simply, but I really want you to come back and reply! I know my response isn't the right answer.

I really want this to open some (hopefully) beneficial dialogue!

Before I answer, I want to reiterate that I am doing my best to learn about self identification and determination and how to respect it, and I can only do that by talking to people and hearing about their experiences.

Let's all have a good, healthy conversation!

So.

I disagree that 9 is the cutoff age. There are doctors that think it goes to 16! Personally, I think it's 12 based on my own research.

I think the question also ignores the important point of other conditions someone has. Autism is well known to make people struggle with their sense of self and shifting facets. ADHD and OCD do the same. The reason I bring those up is to point out that those struggling with various disorders in childhood are much more likely to experience trauma reactions in situations that are only stressful for other children without those disorders.

In addition, disorganized attachment becomes much more likely if the parents and teachers aren't properly equipped to handle those developmental disorders, or if they're not recognized early enough (reminder, disorganized attachment has been found to be the biggest predictor of CDDs).

My question to you is, if you have childhood trauma within the supposed cut-off age, why aren't you just a CDD system?

If endogenic plurality presents as a CDD in childhood/early teens, why isn't it just a CDD?

How can you be sure it's not a CDD? How do you judge your own levels of traumatizion? How important is that distinction? Why is it important? Does denial play a factor? What are the benefits to this type of identification?

--

Okay I lied, not so simple. Just to encourage discussion, I think I struggle with this because of the idea of the brain scans. This type of technology may never be used mainstream, but it does bring up the question of... if an endogenic system has childhood trauma and believes it's unrelated, but the brain structure is the same as someone with DID...

I'll leave it there.

I really want to see both sides' opinions on this!

[dreams-inbetween-dying-realities]

Introduction!

Hi. We're the Starfall Composite, previously Moxidryne.

We are diagnosed as a DID system, we have diagnosed ADHD, ASD Level 1, MDD, PTSD, and an Anxiety disorder. We also have an autoimmune condition that causes us chronic pain.

We are bodily 21, we're trans masculine. Our collective pronouns vary, being either he/they or they/them, we also use we/us or singular. Pronouns differ by headmate.

We are strictly ANTI-ENDOGENIC. We do not participate in syscourse arguments, but we don't feel comfortable with people faking the disorder and spreading misinformation.

We support LGBT+, and we hate the current US political scene. FUCK TRUMP!

Requests we take!

We are going to start taking userbox requests! We're learning to make them for ourselves, and we want to help make them for others!

We also take art requests, but it might be a long time before getting any done, ADHD go brrrr.

Interests!

Our interests and sources vary, please feel free to ask who's fronting, but please don't ask anything relating to source.

Anyway, with all of that out of the way, we have several interests and often reblog random things, please send us your funnies and chaos <3

A lot of our favorite media revolves around SCP or similar horror projects, liminality, dreamcore/webcore/weirdcore, and we enjoy a lot of aesthetics, including vaporwave and synthwave, cyberpunk as well. We aren't a stranger to the music and art genres of them as well. We enjoy a lot more than this, so please ask!

Our music tastes are extremely varied, and we enjoy talking about it! We also enjoy talking about literature that we've read, and TV shows and movies that we've seen, a good example is House MD! We also enjoy games to a lesser extent, although a hyper fixation is Path to Nowhere!

We'll absolutely talk to you about any new media, though!

We also enjoy collecting retro computers, game consoles, and other various things like toys, and we like to collect shiny things, trinkets, and art!

We're also artists ourselves, although we don't really post a lot of our own art. We don't mind talking about it though and showing you!

We also also REALLY love reptiles! Please send us all your silly snakes and lizards! Amphibians, invertebrates, and rats are also welcome! Just give us all the squiggly babies <3

Communication Preferences!

We're very nice to everyone we can be, and we'll do our best to get to know you! Anyone is welcome except Endogenic systems and supporters, we just don't approve of you making a game out of our disorder and daily struggle :)

We accept friends, follows, messages, asks, requests for anything, and we hope to make some friends around here :)! We also always follow back, so if you follow us, expect a mutual <3

If you do want to be friends with us, please add us on discord at exiled_sentinel, just message us and let us know first so we know to accept! Our SP if you want it is Moxidryne-Composite, same thing with telling us you're adding us! If you want to get to know us and stuff, we'll eventually let you be a trusted friend on SP. We have it set up as an everyone, trusted friends privacy thing :3

Random Tidbits!

So we like to post a lot of random things! Sometimes I'm just hangry and upset about it, or sometimes it's a rant about something completely unrelated to anything else, other times it might just be like, "hi here's our snek :3"

We also might post audio posts, just different songs we like, or random images, or whatever else we come across we want to share.

We may not tag them all correctly, and we'll use a specific tag if you want to filter; #mox-comp rant!

Ad Astra Per Aspera.

Credits:

*Credit to Enchanthings for the dividers.

[thosecactussharks]

I feel like it can always be said more- but I don’t think systems are going to be mad at you for admitting that you were wrong.

Intentionally faking is one thing. You *know* that you’re faking because you’re actively choosing to fake.

But misunderstanding yourself or thinking that you’re a system only to find out later that you were wrong is different.

It’s okay to be wrong. It’s human to make mistakes- even ones around your perception of yourself or your mental health. It’s okay to admit that you were wrong.

Going to add here, just in case, that no, we do not support fakeclaiming. The practice is too messy and oftentimes leads to drama, when in reality, it’s easier to form your opinions and move on with a block or whatever else you decide.

Let’s not pretend that it’s only people who think they have or pretend to have a disorder that spread misinformation. People diagnosed with the disorder can ALSO spread misinformation.

I’ve seen it happen before. Nobody is immune to that. I’ve seen it in autism spaces, adhd spaces, and cdd spaces.

Also, yes, I’m aware of Malingering and Factious DID. However, I also don’t think it’s the job of people on the internet to say if someone is or isn’t actually a system because of their opinion of someone. That should be for a person in the medical field to decide, in my opinion.

If they’re bothering you, use the block button. Don’t interact with them. It personally saves us a lot of headaches by doing that.

At the end of the day, those who Malinger or have Factitious DID still could use support and help. There’s no need to be vile or extremely rude to these people.

(I’m aware that this post could come off one way or another since we are anti-endo/non traumagenic.

We’ve said before that we don’t think that endogenic systems are all fake. We don’t believe in being a system without trauma being the cause, and that’s why we’re against the label.

Systems can have amnesia for trauma. We did for years. A lot of endos could be the same, but we don’t want to constantly interact and explain that as it can be tiring for us in the long run. We prefer to stay away from the community for our own reasons.

That is why we don’t go out of our way to fakeclaim endos. We would rather block and move on for everybody’s peace of mind when we can, and avoid starting arguments. We only do so if we are approached first and feel the need to explain or talk about something before blocking

We also don’t support attacking anybody. Don’t go out of your way to harass someone- regardless of your stance on endos. It only creates more drama and things like death threats or other comments as such are not okay.)

[dissociative-identity-coining]

Dissociative Identity Coining!

[PT: Dissociative Identity Coining! End PT.]

A blog for systems, by systems, about systems! We're here to coin terms for alters, recoin ones made by 'endogenics,' recommend you others' flags, and more!

Below you will find two sections of information on the moderators, the DNI for the blog, and some frequently asked questions.

Moderators!

[PT: Moderators! End PT.]

Mod Kitty is a cat with white fur, a yellow nose, black button eyes, and no mouth. He's often seen with stars favorite red bow, in a yellow shirt and blue overalls. They love chocolate cake, chocolate, the color red, making friends, and princes partner, Mod Piano.

“You can never have too many friends!"

Mod Piano is a sheep with a soft, light pink coat of wool, with a yellow nose, white hands, feet, and face, black button eyes, a little tail, and ears that hang down. She loves meringue cookies, orange, flowers, rams friends, and her wifsband, Mod Kitty.

"I was just wondering about the softest, fluffiest things in the world!"

More of Moderators!

[PT: More of Moderators! End PT.]

Mod Kitty is the host of a polyfragmented C-DID system. He uses he/they/star/prince/royal pronouns, and masculine, nonhuman, or femmasc terms. Royal has B/H/OCPD, AuDHD, C-PTSD, GAD, SPD, and PF-DID/C-DID. They're both hyperlexic and hyperverbal, and get confused easily. Star need kindness!

Mod Piano is a host of a polyfragmented C-DID system. Ram uses she/he/it/ram, and feminine or neutral terms. (Mod Kitty'll let Piano add more information if she'd like!)

DO NOT INTERACT!

[PT: Do Not Interact! End PT.]

Anyone who supports, is neutral on, or considers themselves to be endogenic in any way. Non-traumagenic systems do not exist to paw. Please stay away and do not use anything here. No syscourse either.

Radqueers, those who support it, and those who are neutral on it. TransIDs are racist, transphobic, ableist, and more.

Proshippers, darkshippers, most comshippers, consang, or anyone else. Fiction affects reality.

TERFs, TIRFs, transmeds, transmisogynists, transmisandrists, anyone who is anti good faith identities (incuding xenos, neos, 'mspec monos,' 'contradictories,' etc). OP is a transmascfem enboy

If you believe in narcissistic abuse, borderline abuse, any cluster B abuse, or any other form of disorder abuse.

Pro contact, neutral contact, or complex contact for harmful paraphilias, or anti-recovery.

Frequently Asked Questions!

[PT: Frequently Asked Questions! End PT.]

Q: Is Mod Piano so so so so pretty and gorgeous and perfect?

A: YES!!!! - Mod Kitty

Q: What do your little/middle/etc symbols mean?

A: Here! - Mod Kitty

[sophieinwonderland]

Alright, Let's Go Debunk A Sysmed in Denial!

There are three types? Ooh! Is this going to be about my Headmate Foundations model?

Oh... Nope. I guess that would have required braincells.

I'm just going to assume that "factive disorder" is a Medically Unrecognized Disorder that involves forming a lot of introjects of real people. 🤷‍♀️

Wait! No! Please tell me all about this disorder I've never heard of!

Open the can of worms! 🙏

I believe they meant "factitious disorder" but it's not a typo when it happens twice. It's having no idea what you're talking about.

Like????

There are no examples given here.

Is your research in the room with us?

Anyway, this is false.

The most popular endogenic community is the tulpamancy community, and it's been the subject of extensive research.

For anyone who doesn't know, tulpamancy is a primarily psychological practice that involves creating headmates. It has been acknowledged as a real psychological phenomenon by multiple doctors, including Dr. Samuel Veissiere, a psychiatry professor at McGill University, who wrote the following paper on tulpamancy.

There is also an ongoing study conducted by Dr. Michael Lifshitz that has shown neurological changes during partial possession in tulpamancy.

The existence of tulpamancy, a practice of creating headmates, has been acknowledged by multiple doctors.

Absolutely no doctors have ever claimed that it's fake.

Way to undercut your whole argument with that last line!

Anyway, in one study of tulpamancers, 78% reported positive impacts on their mental health, and 91% reported positive impacts on their overall lives.

So tulpamancy is obviously beneficial according to these statistics.

And when the OP is even admitting they'd be worse off as a singlet (and a majority of people with DID have expressed that they'd miss their alters if they were gone), I just don't think this argument has any merit at all.

Wanting to be a system is perfectly valid.

What the Hell do you consider "actual" endogenic systems???

You mean like, people who were born as systems?

So... not that either???

What then???

That's... trauma...

I mean, bullying isn't necessarily going to be traumatic for everyone but you're describing bullying that's severe enough to cause PTSD symptoms.

If the only endogenic systems you support are the ones whose systems were caused by trauma, then you aren't pro-endo.

Are you SURE your aren't a troll blog??????

Because somehow, calling yourself "pro-endo" while the only "endogenic" systems you believe in are ones you don't think their trauma is valid enough to count as real trauma is the worst possible position in all of syscourse!

Ugh! Do you even know enough of plural history to realize that the endogenic community branched out of the natural multiples? People who believed their multiplicity was entirely natural???

If this isn't a troll blog, I feel kind of bad for you. Because at least most other anti-endos are smart enough to realize they're anti-endos.

[antiendovents]

Fuck. Seeing people constantly screenshot these vents and share them like "UwU antis are the idiots not us" LIKE CAN YOU FUCKING NOT? I just saw the jester systems rant about this so I know I'm not the only one but this is our safe space. A place where you can't go. GET OUT. They insist we're the ones harassing them but come into safe spaces just to mock us for venting and minding our business.

And, I know my host mentioned before that when he was pro Endo, antis politely educated him. Now Endos harass him and have doxxed him in the past and they still think WE'RE the problem?

Fuck.

I don't know what else to say. It genuinely makes me so mad. I'm this systems protector. I'll be damned if I let Endos invade these spaces and privacy without a fight.

-Night Glider

yeah,, really (pro) endos are just pathetic. Why are you bullying vulnerable people who literally just want a safe space? What's wrong with you. /Nay

We feel really bad about the situation, we created this blog to be a safe space for ourselves and others and it pisses us off that (pro) endos feel the need to try ruin that.

The endogenic community is fucking dangerous, if you support them then you aren't a safe space for victims / trauma survivors. You're dangerous. /Nay

[ellipse-society]

Ok so I did because I was curious to see what was actually there.

So first now of course we have the AI overview.

Firstly thought to form and typically strong word choice there very persuasive/sar. Secondly what do they actually link in the overview? Two blogs and WedMD. So I guess now what does WebMD say because I hope we aren't using blogs as our sources here.

Again with the weak word choices. Using likely then stating 99% instead of 100. What about that last 1%?

So now let's scroll down the page and see what we find.

Firstly we have did-research.org which has a disclaimer page stating not all information on the page is necessarily accurate and there is already some well known things on that website that are questionable in their accuracy when you look at the science on the topic. Also basically just one person's blog so not a reliable resource.

Next in the list one of the blogs linked in the AI overview. They seemed to actually be citing some good sources though...

...still that use of weak language.

Next we have "how do new alters form" asked on r/DID and I decided to check to see if anyone added a source to their answer to give it the benefit of the doubt. They didn't and I shouldn't have to explain why this is a bad source.

After that we have the othe blog from the AI overview the fact it cites did-research.org as a source immediately knocking it even further down in credibility and all of their other sources use that same weak language.

Then we have quora with "how are new alters in DID systems created? Can it happen randomly?" Again I checked for any sources and found none.

And finally after going through all those sources we finally get to a credible one which does actually support their argument until you read what it is about. "Formation and Functions of Alter Personalities in Dissociative Identity Disorder" It isn't talking about every case where alters are present just the cases where the individual has DID and nowhere does it say you need DID to have alters. It also starts to use the same weak language when it actually gets to the actual descriptions of alter formation.

I'm just wondering how they think the first thing that pops up is supporting their point when it takes me to the seventh to find anything. Also most endogenics aren't claiming to have DID and most don't. Most also don't use the word alters. So I really don't see why they think they have proved anything. If your sources aren't talking about endogenic plurality they are not evidence for or against it.

[the-sour-patch-crew]

While blocking we noticed people were getting pissed about "endos" coming at the new application Octocon (also searching it just gives links about an Irish Convention soooo thats fun).

Apparently, it's because we are mad endogenic plurality isn't being included as its primary target audience???? Really? You think that's it?

You think its because we don't want traumagenic systems to have their own tools? To have an application that focuses on them and not us?

Baby girl, that's not what people are doing. (If this is your reason for attacking the application, then kindly remove yourself from the internet).

You now have a dedicated tool for traumagenic systems to use with resources (im assuming) specifically for CDD systems. And that's great! Fantastic! Glad to see more options and variety out there for systems. My only problem with it is that it doesn't allow freedom to speak about plurality outside of what the people who run it deem as "acceptable".

The thing is, if you are making an application for traumagenic systems, then you are making it for ALL traumagenic systems. That includes pro endo traumagenic systems or traumagenic systems with created headmates. Crazy idea, am I right?

This is a lie. It's not inclusive. You can't freely share experiences. This is why I am going after the app and saying it needs to advertise appropriately. The only time you get a real taste of what the community stands for is when you join the Discord server. *If* you join the discord server.

Again, you can have your tools. I'm happy for you. But I'm going to be critical of it just like I was critical of the syspunk tag. Saying something is inclusive means you must also be inclusive to traumagenic systems that experience plurality outside of their trauma. That also have created headmates. That also support endogenic plurality. Who's experience isn't going to align with what you think is "correct".

Technically, everyone can use this app and you've acknowledged you can't stop them. So again, no reason for anyone to be jelous or mad.

BUT when anti endos are celebrating the application, and then you see Octocon's stance on endogenic plurality, it's QUITE clear it's just another anti endo application, and people have a right to know.

You aren't JUST about misinformation. It's okay to admit it. Admit you are an anti, its fine. But for the safety of traumatized systems who may join your "welcoming and inclusive" community, they have a right to know upfront. People have a right to know who and what they are supporting without having to join the Discord server. They have a right to know because there are traumatized systems that have been hurt and fakeclaimed constantly by other traumagenic systems who are "against misinformation" and endogenic plurality. AKA anti-endos. Facts.

I'm not crying about Octocon existing and being a tool for traumagenic systems. Again, I'm thrilled to see more resources for systems. It should be something to celebrate. But, false advertising really grinds my gears. So yeah. I'm going to bitch about it.

I'm not trying to murder your project right out the door. I just want proper transparency.

If you want to discuss this and vouch for the application, then please feel free to. If you are blocked, sorry, you'll just have to sit on it. If you are a traumagenic (not an anti) and think I'm being unfair, then also let me know!

[therihare]

factives are real, factkin are real, factfolk in general are real. systems and other plurals are real, regardless of origin.

it/its, just call me therihare. im bodily an adult

polykin/polytherian, and alterhuman in many other ways. headmate in a system, currently acting as the host. the others wont be actively using this account, just me. i support endogenic systems fully

i on and off consider myself transspecies

some folks in my system are male. if you have men dni in your bio, follow your own dni

NOT TCC even though some of my interests are things that are apparently popular in that community. putting this here because people keep looking at me weird for liking stuff that has nothing to do with true crime, let alone the idolization of real killers.

if you were blocked, i likely go against your DNI. check below for stuff i typically block for

please note that i will also sometimes block blogs that are irrelevant to me, such as source calling blogs. i may also block you if your blog is taking up a large amount of space in a certain tag, because i want to see different posts. sorry!

DNIs dont really work, but these are the kinds of folk i either block on the spot or avoid in general. DNIs go both ways, if i fit yours then block me so that we do not accidentally interact.

radqueers, those proud about having a non-consensual paraphilia and those who support or are "neutral" on contact in those paraphilias, those against 'contradictory queer labels' such as bi-lesbian/turigirl/etc, against endogenic systems. i block blogs that post irl nudity/sexual/suggestive content

KFF and those who use KFF language i will usually not block but i will be wary of interacting with you.

i support non-offending paraphiles with inherently non-consensual paraphilias [zoophiles, pedophiles, etc] finding safe ways to cope, and that it should be easier for anyone with these paraphilias to get help and therapy if needed. however, i do not want any "proud maps" or "proud zoos" etc to interact with my posts, regardless of if you support sexual abuse/assault/harassment. ESPECIALLY if you support those things. this is not because i assume that every paraphile is inherently harmful or "bound to harm", ive just seen way too many "proud zoos/maps" who turned around to support abuse or try to excuse abuse.