#but I think that’s a disservice to Dick Grayson as a character and to comics as a storytelling medium.

[thisiswhereikeepdcthings]

Comics really have the nerve to depict Bruce as an abusive father then get surprised when those comics do poorly and a fluffy comic like Wayne Family Adventures does well. Bruce is supposed to be the hero of the story why would I want to read about him beating his kids? It’s a disservice to his character and if you write him like that in a canon comic then you shouldn’t be writing canon comics. Is he perfect? Absolutely not. But he tries, and my Bruce Wayne would never make Dick Grayson eat rats.

This. Exactly this. What on earth makes them think we’re going to see some guy beating up his kids and then go, oh yeah, that guy, totally the hero of the story. I mean, really?

[dc-said-bi-robin-rights]

Rant Post incoming:

Anyone else have any common Batfam fandom tropes they absolutely despise?

Mine are:

-Woobyfying

-Those fics were everyone has to apologize and beg for *insert character here(usually Tim Drake)*’s forgiveness for *insert situation where they wronged said character here*. It ignores all the context of all their previous interactions and it’s just a petty thing overall.

-Cass being treated like a service dog because for some ungodly reason half the fandom thinks she’s some perfect little girl who’s vocabulary consists solely of the words “little brother”

-Cass being beat in a one-on-one fight by anyone in the batfam. She has been defeated before by metahumans, people taking her by surprise, or enemies that use gadgets she physically can’t counter, and that’s fine, but in a straight fight Cassandra Cain would fistfight God and win and it’s a disservice to her character to treat her like a throwaway tool to show how good *batboy of choice* is.

-Cass being treated like a mind reader. She can read body language. She would know Person A is afraid, sure, but that doesn’t mean she would instantly know why or how or of who or even what she should do about it.

-Tim Drake hahaha coffee hahaha so funny

-Duke either not being mentioned as one of the batkids or being treated like an outsider even when he’s like the only brother (not counting Dick) Damian can stand and has been shown to have a really close relationship with Cass

-“Duke is the sane one because….” the first time we saw that boy he jumped out of a moving police car off a fucking bridge what the fuck are you talking about

-Damian talking like a Victorian prince. His dialogue has always been a mix of the formal dialect that he was taught in the League mixed with the modern slang he has learned while in Gotham. He uses modern phrases all the time. He shouldn’t sound three sentences away from being cast in a Shakespearean play.

-People who have Damian not use contractions, just… why? I literally saw a fic in which a major plot point was that Damian had hidden a secret message in the contractions he used in a letter because “Damian never uses contractions!” and I’m just like motherfucker have you read a single panel with Damian in it in your entire life what

-Latino Jason Todd. As an actual Latino I hate this trope so much I wrote a multiple paragraph post about about how offensive it is (street kid= Latino? Really?) and how many hoops you’d have to jump through to get to that unbelievable convoluted racist headcanon (One of Jason’s potential moms was Lady fucking Shiva does Lady Shiva look like a fucking Latina to you?).

-Giving other people’s skills and traits to Tim.

Best hacker in the Batfamily? Barbara, not Tim.

Best fighter in the Batfamily? Cass, not Tim, and it’s not even close. No, not even if Tim “strategizes” or whatever that is bullshit and you know it. The only Bat Tim could ever credibly beat in a fight is Damian and the kid’s literally ten.

Hooded Robin? Damian, not Tim. Damian’s canonically the only Robin ever allowed to wear a hood because he’s the only one of them that wouldn’t be hindered by the hood (“… a hood can become a blindfold…” “…I can fight blind…”)

-Dick Grayson being treated like a sex object and being cool with being objectified by complete strangers.

-The erasure of Tim and Dick’s brotherly relationship. He can have more than one brother at a time guys.

-Dick/The Titans treating Jason badly while Jason was Robin.

-Shut the actual fuck up about Tim Drake if you haven’t ever read a comic, seriously. Y’all literally just making up your own character at this point and it’s the most boring person imaginable.

[why-this-kolaveri-machi]

it’s a fucking metaphor!

Titans 3.08

i’ve finally gathered the mental and emotional resources to do this thing, so let’s go! as always, i’m typing this up as i see the episode.

SPOILERS AHEAD

1. on watching this opening scene, i was thinking back to how gar was in s1, or even the early bits of s2. the way he idolised the others, particularly dick, and his readiness to go along with whatever they said, and the way he practically bled the need for acceptance. and here he is now, openly defying dick, fully open to and aware of the flaws of the people he loves and admires, knowing he is accepted no matter what and extending that generosity elsewhere. it’s a remarkable bit of character growth that’s... sort of blossomed in the background and so rewarding to see and acknowledge. 

1.25. i guess what i really love about this conflict over how to respond to jason--as clumsily as it is sometimes written--is how their histories and individual traumas inform each character’s reaction. dick is torn between his guilt over what’s become of jason and his drive to do what batman had essentially given up on doing: he is motivated to track down red hood at all costs but there’s a sense that he’s not completely sold on the idea that the only way to stop him is to kill him. (he might go the comics route and try to put him in arkham? god, imagine if the season ended with jason in arkham.) kory’s never had much of a connection with jason in the first place, and jason has done one of the worst things he could do in her book: track and kill a member of her newfound family and is threatening to kill more. 

and gar... sure. look. the idea of jason and red hood as separate entities appeals to him; that red hood emerged when jason was drugged to the gills by scarecrow and lost his usual inhibitions. gar’s struggled with what he becomes when he’s pushed to his limits, too--he did rip open that experimenting scientist with his teeth way back in 1.07, after all, and he was brainwashed by cadmus in s2 into becoming a literal monster. he needs to think, to know, there’s a dichotomy, a line that can only be crossed under extreme duress or by outside influence. 

and he says--and we say--that he was accepted back into the titans in spite of what he’d done, but was he really? gar’s always struggled with his footing in this group; relegated to the caretaker, the tech guy, the gatekeeper, and sometimes punching bag even though everybody’s paying lip service to how much of a family they all are. perhaps gar reaching out to jason and offering acceptance is aspirational on his part: perhaps this is the effort he hoped the titans put/or will put into getting gar back, even when it would seem like he’s too far gone.

1.5. anyway my point is that i don’t think it’s worth discussing this in terms of right/wrong decisions because all of their reactions make a lot of sense given their backgrounds/personalities. gar is doing a fine job here of tracking down jason’s friends and trying to find him that way, but we the audience know that jason is ultimately going to end up an anti-hero/eventually-hero character, so with that knowledge in mind we know that gar’s reaction is the right one. it’s knowledge that the other characters don’t have, so to judge them on it is... uh, unfair.

1.8. also, molly is awesome, yay!

2. dick and barbara flirting over the phone is so cute! i love to see this side of dick: lighter, peppier, willing (even if somewhat reluctantly) to put his mission aside to go out on a date with his girlfriend. and i love how easy this makes his dynamic with kory too: it’s all very domestic and utterly delightful. 

(also, re: the water leak in barbara’s office--you’re saying GCPD could afford fancy-schmancy table-wide touch screen computers and evil-lair lighting but needs its frickin’ commissioner to catch leaking water from above her desk with mugs and fishbowls????)

2.2225. this is probably a teeny tiny thing and i’m not sure i want to bring it up at all BUT. the fact that dick feels compelled to lie to barbara about not liking fancy gala food and eating something more substantial before the date? not a terribly great sign, though i wouldn’t call it a red flag per se. 

“this from a man who forced his students to eat cauliflower crust pizza...”

3. so.... conner and kom are a Thing. huh.

in theory i really like the idea of them bonding over an innate alien-ness and longing for a place they could really belong. both of them are alien twice-over: conner a mix of kryptonian and human, practically generated in a test tube, and kom being somebody that was born different and rejected by her own people, now stuck on a planet dominated by an entirely different species. i even like them exploring this bond physically. i guess it’s the sense of... uneasiness around what we do and don’t know about kom that makes this scene land slightly left of centre to me. i think titans, especially through s2, has cultivated in its audience a sense of distrust even until the final episode, just in case somebody vital to the season is suddenly revealed to have had ulterior motives (i’m even low-key suspicious of leslie). i really want to see this kom-conner dynamic play out but the anticipation of watching the other shoe drop is sucking out the enjoyment.

4. for fuck’s sake dick, gar’s not your gatekeeper.

TIIIIIIIIMMMMM \O/

4.5. i love this nod to tim’s origins in the comics, the way he just comes in and lays out all his evidence and makes it clear to dick that he needs tim’s help as robin. the fact that he was there at the flying graysons’ last performance, he was obsessed with their acrobatic moves, and was observant enough to connect those moves with that of robin and later nightwing... all of this came together to put him where he is right now.

(i also love how he can’t contain his giddy excitement when talking about the day dick grayson’s parents died... to dick grayson. even if dick weren’t nightwing, that would be a deeply uncomfortable thing! yet tim can’t help himself, and i love him for it.)

4.8. it’s a testament to how much dick’s caught off-guard that he can’t come up with a better response to tim’s allegations other than “uh... he stole my moves! as you know, no two gymnasts in the world are allowed to do the same moves. now, let me escort you out while pretending poorly that i’m not at all shaken by this...”

4.9. i’ve talked about this before, but i find the logic around secret identities in this universe utterly fascinating. the titans don’t make much effort in keeping their identities secret: everybody seems to know that kory is starfire for instance, or that gar is beast boy. dick grayson is seen hanging out with kory a lot, especially at crime scenes. it won’t take a lot of sleuthing to find out that the titans are currently camped out at wayne manor, and to put two and two together.

my theory was that superheroes and villains have become such an integral part of daily society that it’s almost not worth it to seek out their secret identities, or that it’s just not a big deal anymore. like politicians or diplomats, not everybody bothers to look into who exactly their local politician is, but the people who know just... know. it’s a sort of unspoken social contract.

tim’s broken this contract by confronting dick about his identity, and dick’s not ready to deal with it. not entirely.

look at him! *pinches his cheeks*

5. ngl, it was quite satisfying to see jason knock the scarecrow out like that. 

5.5. i guess... the question of jason’s culpability is always going to be a thorny one and would make for a great courtroom drama spinoff. there are a number of factors to consider: jason’s personality, the rough circumstances under which he grew up, his undoubtedly stressful transition to being robin, bruce wayne being... well, bruce wayne, never feeling accepted by the titans and having most of them turn on him, being roundly defeated and almost killed by deathstroke, alfred’s death, a fuckload of ptsd, his violent death, crane’s manipulations, coming back to life, crane plying him with a drug. but there is no easy line to draw between any of these factors to his actions. i think it would be a disservice to jason’s character to attribute his actions entirely to these things and rather irresponsible to do so. i think jason has to reckon with the fact that when he took crane’s drug, he wasn’t reckless and chaotic like the thugs he gave it to; the planning that went into hank’s death was meticulous and the way hank died--dawn essentially tricked into pulling the trigger that blew her lover into bits--is so drawn out and cruel. 

5.75. it’s occurring to me that crane might have given jason a placebo. maybe jason’s dependence is psychological, and he’s externalised his fears in such a way that he believes crane’s drugs literally wipe them out, however temporarily.

in any case, the boy needs (more) therapy.

6. “he walked like robin...” fuck, tim

“gait recognition sweep” god, this show. i don’t know whether to laugh or cry. hey, once we’re done doing this gait recognition thingy, can we get a goddamn plumber in the house??? or move the commissioner’s desk so that sewage water isn’t dripping on her head or the million dollar touchscreen desk???????

6.5. oh no dick!!!!!! i am delighted that you got hurt but i feel ashamed about it! that looked like it really hurt!

he’s really not having a good time of it, is he. from being shot by a sniper to slamming at full speed into an suv, he’s got to be really fucking battered by now. and that’s just the physical side of it.

“can you believe that just over a week ago i was sitting in san francisco eating cauliflower crust pizza and feeling good about myself for the first time in five years...”

7. kory’s having visions again! now that she’s figured what they are, do you think the show’s just dropped justin? it’s curious that HPG hasn’t been brought up in a while after featuring relatively heavily in the beginning. hmmm.

8. dick’s in hospital but... he looks remarkably whole for someone who took a spill like that. you’d think he’d at least have a bruise to show for it. on the other hand, i love that the first thing he says is ‘i need to call home’. reminds me of season 1 dick and his clumsy attempts to explain away his found family as an ‘alliance of necessity’ or some bullshit. what a long way he’s come!

*gasp* dick’s hallucinating again!!!!!!!!!!!! i’m doing the dick’s hallucinating dance! can you believe that we’re carrying over these huge honking issues unearthed in season 2 onto season 3? can you believe?!!! all that time and effort i spent talking about dick’s mental health from last season has not gone in vain!!

... ahem. anyway. more on this later.

“hold on barbara, i think kory gave me the number to this therapist that she kept calling Hot Psychiatrist Guy...”

9. just an interlude to say that i’m barely halfway through the episode and i’ve already written 2k+ words... ugh. i’m going to try and be more concise.

10. man i fuckin love it when titans goes all out with its weird mindscapes and i’m extra glad that kory’s the focus this time. is that baby kom or maybe a secret sibling that neither of them knew about? was that lady luand’r? and is this place where kory was circling where the secret sibling is? it’s all very intriguing. 

(if justin turned out to be that sibling... we’ve a real luke/leia situation on our hands.)

11. aw, i knew that nice security guard was going to die, but it still hurt to see him go :(

12. this show is so bizarre. like i get the mindscape as a narrative device, but jason using sex workers to try and vocalise his guilt about killing hank was just weird. like. i have to use tamil, sorry: idhulaan yaaru pa room pottu yosikara??? some things just can’t be translated into a second language.

i guess one way to interpret jason’s reckoning with what he did to the titans as a sign of him coming off crane’s drug, but i think it’s more to do with the disillusionment of realising that he was a mere pawn in a more sinister plan, and not, as he thought, a player in control of his destiny, rising to the purpose of liberating gotham of its fears in a way batman never could. along the way, he’s done some truly irreversible damage. it’s a bitter pill to swallow.

13. another hallucination! it’s really intriguing that it’s a young dick(?), younger than we’ve ever seen him, wearing an early-era robin costume from way before he even became robin. (this is also interesting in that it gives credence to the idea that ‘robin’ is an identity that dick created entirely on his own, and as a possible homage to his family.)

“old road, old house... it’s all gone.” i wonder what it all means.

13.5. it’s entirely likely dick’s hallucinating because of a brain injury from the accident, though just hallucinations without any other focal neurological deficit is unusual. he might’ve been microdosed with fear toxin at some point, though i wonder when... did jason do so after dick’s accident? did he get dosed at the factory from last episode? 

it’s also possible it’s a continuing manifestation of dick’s issues from last season--which, if you remember, he never told anyone about and therefore never properly addressed. maybe he was hallucinating bruce wayne in a psychotic episode accompanying an acute stress reaction and maybe that’s what’s happening now. nobody’s denying that he’s under an extraordinary amount of stress right now. another way to look at it is that this is how he externalises conflict that he can’t bear to suppress anymore; if in s2 halluci!bruce manifested his insecurities and self-loathing, then these hallucinations... something to do with his fears, no doubt.

yet ANOTHER way to look at it might be: rachel is reaching out to him through their, well, psychic bond. after all, they were able to use that bond unconsciously last season to get the titans back together; maybe rachel has learned to gain a degree of control over it in themyscira and is sending across warnings? it’s all very intriguing.

anyway:

“i hear you skipped over the discowing suit in your evolution to nightwing... how could you??”

14. can you imagine, gar did all the work of reaching out to jason via molly and jason wants to meet dick? smh.

14.5. “i’m just a regular guy doing regular things” he says, standing at the opening of a secret old tunnel, like a secret person doing secret things, confronting someone who can now officially be called his stalker. neither of you guys are ‘regular’

14.8. ‘my dad was a cop and he taught me how to investigate’ - hmmm. i guess they’re trying to Explain Tim but i don’t think that’s really necessary. so he’s smart and he’s obsessed with batman and robin--that should be enough, imo. 

15. that scene with scarecrow and his mother was... wow. i’m just laughing here helplessly, because what the hell? for a while i thought it was an extended dream sequence and i’m still not entirely sure that it isn’t...

anyway. i still love that titans is happy to throw out its plot in favour of extended character-exploration sessions.

15.5. it seems to me that this scene with crane and his mother (i have no idea if there’s anything in the comics similar to this) serves to move forward this season’s theme of harmful legacies and how parents can damage their children in the name of their mission. in a way it’s been the underlying message of the entire show but we’re really seeing it being reinforced this season. the titans, serving as a foil to scarecrow, are using the damage to rebuild themselves and actually work through their issues together, instead of spiralling further and further into the morass of their issues.

other than that... god, that scene was painful to watch. i can’t say i like this version of scarecrow or how this actor plays him at all.

16. i wonder what’s jason’s play here. i think he’s smart enough to realise that the titans aren’t going to just forgive him and let him be a titan again after what he did, and that dick agreeing to it is just a bid to pin both him and crane down. maybe it’s a ploy to trap them, get back on scarecrow’s good books so that he can have the drug again. who knows.

17. i absolutely felt dick when he said “we’ll bring him in and then re-assess the situation.” what the fuck else is he going to say? the priority is to get him.

so kory and dick are both hallucinating while potentially trying to rehabilitate their murderous siblings. CONFIDE IN EACH OTHER ALREADY

18. TIM NOOOO! you beautiful, reckless fool!

18.25. just to quickly address it here because i know it’s been brought up before: i think it’s perfectly justified to not have conner take tim to the hospital via superspeed because a) i don’t think we’ve seen conner do that with anybody so far and b) it’s probably not a good idea to submit tim’s body to that kind of stress without knowing what it would do to him. the paramedics with actual equipment and experience would be there in a few minutes, so on a risk assessment, i would say dick and conner absolutely made the right call.

18.5. i guess we won’t know what jason really intended to when the titans came to the pump to see him, but this is definitely going to set a big wedge in his relationship with crane. then again, crane got what he wanted--using starfire’s powers to blast through to the underground pipes--so jason can argue that this is exactly what he was working towards, too. 

anyway, mortal peril, hallucinations, murderous family members, creepy visions and robins sprouting left and right. time to get rachel and donna on the scene, i think.

[robxstar]

Is Richard Grayson actually a “playboy”/promiscuous/womanizing persona in comic canon as fanfiction often portrays?

So that’s... complicated to answer because Comics Canon Is Weird and the whole nature of the medium and the collaborative writing means that you’ll get widely different answers from different people.

I can really only give you my perspective.

So in New Teen Titans, the 80s comic run that basically popularized the character and made Dick Grayon into the Nightwing we all know and love, Dick was very much a serial monogamist.  He may have had several girlfriends, but he was always 100% devoted and loyal to them when he was with them.  This was SUPER obvious in his relationship with Kory.  He was partly reluctant to pursue things with her because his previous relationship (a college girl who was either a vampire or part of a vampire cult that used him and tried to kill him) had ended badly, and when Dick Grayson gets himself into a relationship he commits fully to it.  So he didn’t want to be hurt again (plus a host of Bat-hangups) so he stalled for the longest time.

But then he Committed, and he was pretty much devoted to Kory through the rest of the New Teen Titans run.  It was even a source of friction between them a couple times because of her arranged marriage to Karras (even though Karras was insistent the marriage was political only and was perfectly willing to let Kory be with Dick, Dick was reluctant to have a relationship with another man’s wife) and also that one time Raven thought she was in love with him and tried to brainblast him into loving her back (he freaked out about it and told Kory and insisted on telling Raven to back off, even though Kory was willing to be accommodating with some type of open relationship).  Oh and the... time that Mirage disguised herself as Kory and committed Rape By Fraud on him.  Yeah that was whole ass mess, but it did emphasize, again, Dick is a one-woman man and Kory was that woman.

Nightwing fell into a bit of a continuity limbo for a little bit until they brought him to Bludhaven for the 2000s solo run and I think this is where the problems with “Playboy!Dick” started.  The writers and artists made two mistakes, I think.

One, they tried too much to make Dick “Batman lite”.  The scum-ridden city, the glamorous double-life, cycling through a girl of the week every issue.  Bruce is way more of a playboy than Dick was ever supposed to be, because he’s generally considered too devoted to the mission to make serious commitments and he had prior history of being a frivolous playboy and that’s his entire ass cover.  Batwriters struggle with realizing the idea behind Dick Grayson was that Bruce took him in and raised him so he wouldn’t become like Batman.  They like to make Dick a little too much of a shadow clone of his adopted father, just smileyer and chattier, and that’s a disservice to his character growth.

Two, they realized Dick was fanservice bait and made some kind of assumption that because he’s so attractive he must get all the ladies.  Which, yes, ladies are attracted to him, and yes most of the time he’s not really interested but he’s not an ass about it.  He’s very respectful.  He doesn’t lead girls on if he’s not into them.  He doesn’t play with hearts.  So this weird kind of “Oh you dog!” playful flirty womanizing persona is a misplaced assumption based on the fact that He’s Hot, therefore must have game, therefore must be a player.  And unfortunately this is a retcon that has stuck, both in fanon characterizations of him and less-than-great canon runs and other materials.  (I was super pissy that Young Justice took this characterization route with him, among the other reasons I hated that version of Nightwing.)

For me, the womanizer!Dick characterization is untrue to the roots of the character.  It’s a stale idea, it’s boring, it’s tasteless, it’s led to some terribly OOC moments and quite frankly I just don’t like it.  So I reject any and all versions of Dick that use it.

In simpler terms, yes, the playboy Dick persona is technically comic canon but it’s terrible canon and we throw in the trash heap.

[illumiru]

Fanon!Tim disgusts me. Actually all their Fanon interpretations do. *sigh* but if I’m not constantly reading and consuming media then I’ll die, so I have to put up with it sometimes

jKDNJD anon. honestly it's one thing to enjoy fanon but to be convinced that their fanon selves are in anyway close to how they're in canon. that's a whole other thing.

i've heard people say tt03 robin isn't anything like dick and he's more like tim because he's "smart and serious." which only tells me they've never read ntt, the series the cartoon is based off. i'd say tt03 robin is closer to how he acts as an adult, compared to young justice dick (like i can see how he acts like this as a kid but not when he's grown, you know?)

which is related to my overall gripe with the fandom is that they think each robin is a lot different from each other than they actually are but they're quite similar! esp dick and tim because they basically have to embody the classic robin traits. i've read a meta by @/bluebeauregard in what ways tim and dick are similar so you can try checking their blog out for more.

i think ascribing a trait to a singular robin alone just does disservice to the characters and makes the characterizations less nuanced and more one-dimensional. like tim isn't the only detective in the family? he isn't even the best hacker.

but i get you, anon, like i have to consume content even if i have to clown on it otherwise i get bored very quickly. kjfne it's sad though that the comics is shifting more and more to catering to fanon. everyone right now is pretty much a hollow version of themselves.

like the dick grayson right now? i'm fully convinced writers think his one and ONLY defining trait is being kind. like he's not even the nicest person ever pre-boot jkfnsjkefn. he actively chooses to do good. there's a difference and he's pretty much trusted in the superhero community not because he's got the biggest heart but because he's hypercompetent and smart and you can trust him to be fair.

i don't even know how to end this. it's just depressing overall but honestly part of the fun sometimes is clowning on detective comics comics so i put up with as well lol.

[nightwingmyboi]

what do you think about nightwing in the batman animated movies (bad blood etc) personally i found it lacking but would be great to hear your thoughts on it!

Oh boy do I have thoughts lol. I’ve kind of talked about it a bit in the past, and there are aspects of these movies I enjoy, but I do find the batman animated movies a little lacking myself! I’ll just lay it on all on the table; there’s like three big issues that I have with these movies (warning: some movie spoilers ahead). 

1) The Damian Wayne focus

I love Damian, he is one of my favorite characters in the Batfam, but honestly I’ve had enough of him in movies. He was the main character in both Son of Batman and Batman vs. Robin, and he was also a major player in Batman: Bad Blood, Justice League vs. Teen Titans, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract, Batman: Hush, and even the most recent Apokolips War movie...that’s a ton of screen time fam! And most of it’s wasted in my opinion lol, because we don’t actually see Damian learn important lessons in these movies...in the comics, there was growth. Damian was initially an annoying, prideful brat. He had no respect for anyone, and he would always go off on his own and do things his way, because he thought he was better than everyone else. But he was eventually humbled. He changed; Damian grew to respect Dick, and gradually learned to work as a team and follow his Batman’s lead. And his skill set improved over time as well--Dick trained him, both in combat and particularly in detective skills, which the League didn’t bother to coach him in. 

Batman (1940) #713

The Damian in the movies doesn’t need any training; he’s already overpowered as hell. He takes Deathstroke down in the very first movie he makes an appearance in!! Which is insane. Not even going to talk about the stuff with Nightwing lol. He literally has nowhere to go skill wise. And he never truly loses his condescending attitude or learns to be a team player. In the first movie, he sneaks out of Wayne manor despite Bruce’s instructions to stay. In the second movie, he sneaks out of Wayne manor multiple times despite Bruce’s instructions to stay. In the Judas Contract, he...you guessed it...sneaks out of Titans tower to investigate things on his own. So on and so forth. He’s constantly doing things his own way. And the big way of improving this...is to send Damian away to the Himalayas instead of actually letting him form a meaningful bond with anyone in his family lol. He’s been a very static character in the movies--let him grow if he’s going to have so much screen time!

I’m also really disappointed that DC has gutted Dick and Damian’s relationship. Dick was a huge positive influence on Damian’s life in the comics; he was the first one to reach out to Damian and believe that he could be good. Their bond was an essential relationship for Damian to have. I really do think that the erasure of their mentorship/brotherhood is a big reason we have seen so little growth from Damian in these movies. 

2) The treatment of Dick Grayson 

Dick looks like this: 

DC hates him, enough said.  

...but I’ll still complain some more, because I am also not a fan of how DC makes Dick lose fights and get injured constantly. Anybody else hate his freaking SHOULDER right now??? I could point out an instance of him being nerfed in literally every single movie he has been in, but I’m not going to bother because it’s exhausting honestly. Cannot even think of a time he’s won a one-on-one fight rn. It also stinks that DC uses arcs where Dick is supposed to play a big role, and then delegates him to the sidelines, usually in order to elevate other characters. His origin story as Nightwing was the Judas Contract...and they very nearly cut him from that story (also really missed Jericho in that one, not going to lie...would have killed to see Dick and Joey interact). And in Batman vs. Robin as well, DC has the Court of Owls be the antagonists, and didn’t even bother to mention how Dick was supposed to be a Talon himself, or that his great grandfather was a Talon...which seems like a pretty big detail to me! Instead, Talon tries to recruit Damian, which is honestly just typical at this point lol. 

3) The erasure of Tim Drake and Oracle

DC should give Tim some love. He’s barely in anything lol. I actually think it’d be really cool to see Tim’s origin story play out in movie form; DC could milk the Jason-died angst for Bruce as they love to do, and seeing that NTT #55 scene with Dick and Bruce’s falling out on the big screen would be heart wrenching!! And then we would really be rooting for Tim to help fix things. I also think seeing Tim’s origins could help people connect with him. I think a big reason DC rarely puts Tim in movies is that people without intense comic book knowledge just don’t know about him or understand how he fits into things...so that would really help his character out I think. 

We also really need Oracle frankly. Why would you just erase a disabled superhero from your roster? There are few enough as it is! Barbara is so capable, her intel and computer skills are invaluable to Batman...she could really make a difference in some of these animated movies! Honestly, we just need some good Barbara Gordon in general, because the few movies she has been in as Batgirl you could cut her out and it would have zero effect on the larger plot. The one movie where she was a central character, her characterization unfortunately sucked ass. Barbara spent 75% of The Killing Joke obsessed with Batman (the other 25% she spent in the hospital), which is a disservice to her character. And every scene with her and Bruce in it made me want to tear my hair out because of how much Batman talked down to her. Especially...that one scene...was sooo yikes for me. And Babs still didn’t seem to know Batman’s secret identity afterwards, did Bruce not even take the cowl off for sex? God, I don’t even want to think about it, why did I even go there.

Anyway, there are a couple of other little beefs I have with the movies, but these are the main things that have me rolling my eyes. There are things I like about the movies as well. The fight scenes are usually pretty fun as long as they don’t involve Dick lol. The last part of the Killing Joke with Mark Hamill’s voice acting literally gave me chills, it was so good. Love Under the Red Hood, and, as long as I ignore the Nightwing erasure, the fact that DC let Kory lead the Teen Titans is stellar honestly. They seemed to take Starfire seriously for the most part, and at least they didn’t let Damian lead lol, there’s that. Honestly, sometimes I feel like the only character that is pretty consistently nailed in these movies is Alfred!

[bigskydreaming]

Hi, I have questions about trigger warning terms, can you help? Grayson # 12 or any time a character is hit by their family, should it be tagged as domestic abuse or any other term? Also like in Grayson, those uncomfortable sexual situations are under sexual harassment right? Not assault, because that means something else? Sorry, it's not my first language and I need to put warnings before discussing comics, closest I can get the better. Honestly every comic could have abuse warnings.

I mean, there are no hard and fast rules, which is part of what complicates things here. Domestic abuse would work, certainly, but its not necessarily what I would go with as domestic violence just as often carries connotations or impressions of partner on partner violence rather than between siblings or parent and children....which, given the nature of a lot of ships in this fandom, IS something to consider, I believe.

Personally, I would go with something like “Sibling Abuse” or “Parent/Child Abuse” because the more specific the better and its like there’s no reason not to be. Also, it can only help matters to see terminology like that become more widespread and commonplace, to combat the instinctive pushback a lot of people have, like “siblings can’t abuse each other, that’s just fighting” - like, no. Sibling abuse is definitely a thing, and the more its just matter-of-factly used as a description where the description applies, the less easy it is for people to contest it, or even just overlook it entirely in their own writing.

Specifically, what makes Grayson #12 definitively an instance of abuse that should not have been written IMO, let alone validated by so many fans, is not simply Jason punching Dick. I mean, that’s not ideal, but some people are always gonna go well boys will be boys and sometimes brothers fight and blah blah blah. I mean, I have issues with all of those takes because lol toxic masculinity and also ‘sometimes brothers fight’ usually refers to like....aggressive amateur wrestling which is still not quite interchangeable with just hauling back and sucker punching your brother in the face. But whatever. Sticking to that example specifically, the thing that pushes it definitively into the abusive category is the fact that it was framed contextually by both the issue AND fandom as a kind of....penance. A just punishment. 

It was NOT brothers fighting, it was one brother taking out his hurt on the other in a way that definitively should NEVER be approved of in a family, and with the implicit EXPECTATION that he wasn’t going to have to defend himself from any follow-up attacks from Dick in response to what he did. It was clearly written as though Dick was just letting it happen and okay with it happening, that ‘he deserved it’ and its extremely upsetting that even people who push the idea of a kinder, happier, more functional Batfamily in fics and such still found justification for cheering Jason on in this moment. Punching your brother as punishment for upsetting you. That’s defensible....why?

And of course, I don’t say any of this to vilify Jason. I don’t hate his character for doing it, I hate that his character was written doing it in the first place. I hate that so many people see so little problem with him doing that they have him do it again and frequently in fanfic. Honestly, its just as damaging to Jason’s character, because hello, he’s an abuse survivor himself. 

People don’t seem to understand just how much male abuse survivors struggle with the stigma of it our whole lives, where the SECOND people find that out about us, we can often visibly SEE them regard us differently, take extra note of every single outburst of ours, treat us as though us snapping and actually harming someone else is an inevitability rather than a possibility, because we all grow up surrounded by nothing but narratives that spread the myth of all abuse victims eventually grow up to become abusers, its a vicious cycle. 

No, in reality, many of us work really fucking damn hard to never become the people who hurt us, to never do to others what was done to us. Just because we’re angry or frustrated or have a lot to vent about doesn’t mean we don’t know how to keep ourselves from actually doing harm to others, and that’s why its particularly grating how often people like to point to our anger as being somehow inherently different from their own, simply due to information we voluntarily offered up about ourselves.

And yes, this obviously has a lot to do with my fixation on Dick’s temper and how its regarded, but just as much with how matter-of-factly its treated that of course Jason is casually violent with his brothers and nobody thinks twice about it, that’s just how he IS. 

NO.

That’s how people are CHOOSING to write him, because of their own blindspots in regards to abuse and the many realities and nuances and dynamics of it. Abuse is just as damaging and carries just as much trauma and impact for abuse survivors as rape does for rape survivors, even when there is no crossover, but there is a very big tendency to just....not regard that as the case at all. 

And there’s a very big, very real disconnect between the way people write Jason with a focus on his childhood history with abuse and how that impacted him…..and then just…not connect this at all to writing him being casually violent even with loved ones and friends, as though…..its not like its treated as if its an inevitable extension, its more just like, people completely FORGET that aspect of him when writing him being casually physically violent as though this wouldn’t have any bearing on how he views his own actions and interactions with others in light of that, y’know? 

And everyone who writes him this way and doesn’t think twice about it because oh its just Jason, that’s just how he expresses himself, like, is doing a huge disservice to a lot of the very same stuff they unpack in their own stories about his history of childhood abuse when they DO focus on it. And that’s very…..bewildering, to be honest.

As to the second question about the sexual harassment scenes in Grayson, no, I think you have the right idea there. Think of it this way: sexual assault typically describes unwanted physicality, the other person forcing body-to-body contact in some way. Sexual harassment typically describes unwanted situations, the other person forcing you into scenarios or situations where you’re forced to put up with unwanted sexualization of yourself or others (usually the self though). So most of what happened in Grayson I personally would term sexual harassment rather than assault, but that doesn’t make it ‘better’ - there’s a tendency I think to view sexual harassment as being ‘sexual assault-lite’ and that’s like….no. 

I hate bringing any kind of ranking into it at all, but its not even that so much as its apples and oranges….they describe two entirely different scenarios, and sexual harassment can be plenty damaging in its own right, often due to its frequency of recurrence ‘making up’ for it not being as intensely damaging in a single situation as an instance of sexual assault, perhaps.

So for instance, in Grayson, all the times Dr. Netz like, was very implicitly depicted as groping him during his physicals and medical exams, especially during the times when on top of that, she was verbally objectifying him in narration that made it perfectly clear she knew exactly what she was doing and exactly how uncomfortable she was making him (also emphasized via the facial expressions he was drawn with)…like those were sexual harassment, no ifs, ands or buts. The harasser was taking advantage of a situation they knew Dick had no way of gracefully exiting and had to put up with and endure because its not like a spy agency likely had much in the way of an HR department that was open to listening to claims about this shit….and even if there were, his undercover op demanded he make as little waves as possible. 

Which even without Netz knowing that latter part….she still knew from the second she capitalized on his vulnerable position with him a) distinctly uncomfortable as a result and b) making no actual move to stop it (since there weren’t really any available to him)….like, the first time was ‘testing the waters’ kinda, and the second the harasser determined they could get away with it without consequence, it became a frequent, regular occurring thing, something both parties were more or less matter-of-fact about, though each instance only made the harasser bolder, and the victim, Dick, more resigned to his vulnerability in that position and even LESS likely to attempt to enforce personal boundaries or bodily autonomy, as they weren’t being respected as it was already.

I hope that makes those distinctions easier to conceptualize, and sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this!

[thattimdrakeguy]

I used to bitch about Seeley before Rebirth. (Dick isn't some thot any more than Tim is always depressed or the ONLY nerdy perfectionist in the family.) Didio and Lobdell are gone, though DC took their sweet time.

I never read Grayson to do that, and when I tried I think Dick had a sex scene right away, and I’m not a fan of sexualization, because it grosses me out. I can handle naked characters, half-naked characters, (well not girls, but shhhh that’s just me, I don’t take credits away from a comic with that if done tastefully anyways) but as fan service and not in a setting that it makes sense or actually adds to a scene in anyway it just feels so sleazy and makes me uncomfortable.

And Grayson was like that so fast that I just ran away from it. It just made me so uncomfortable. It was Dick only on the surface. Charming, attractive, and compassionate, but as far as I forced myself to read, I wasn’t seeing the real Dick, just a dude wearing Dick’s body for fan service.

I really hope Lobdell is just GONE GONE, because I know his RHATO’s are popular in the fandom even if not sales, but he just did such a disservice to those characters in the first run, and robbed Jason of any real character development. When you go on and ignore what his character was like from the point you establish you’re taking off from, in this case Under the Red Hood, and ya don’t show how he got any better to not be a total vicious, cynical, loner, that had plans and such, into a guy apparently comfortable enough to have a team, be friends with them, and have a different personality. I just don’t like that. It’s cheap cheap stuff. I don’t view that as character development in a true sense, nothing developed. It just changed. Screw that.

Plus the absolute disservice and character assassination he did to the core four. Ruined perceptions on Tim by going FabNic but MORE SO, and literally having the other three just taken away for some years because he did so bad to the point other writers couldn’t even redeem it.

Besides some of RHATO Rebirth, which even to  me went to crap. He just randomly has Jason idolizing Dick in there, and being randomly soft and domestic, and calls that character development. That’s not character development, that’s just being out of character, and partially stealing from Tim’s backstory, a part they haven’t done anything with in years even.

Lobdell’s just so cheap. If he didn’t give fanservice every so often, I dunno if he’d have any fans. If Outlaws the first one was made with different characters and actually gave Jason real character development, could’ve been a smasher, but he went shallow.

And everyone knows how much Didio sucks. Barf.

[dottie-wan-kenobi]

They're sort of a fandom but Batfam!

thanks guys!!! this got so long omg, I’m so sorry dsjkfhdskajh

my favorite female character: CASSANDRA MFING CAIN. She is simultaneously one of the most badass characters I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing about, while also being just……….so adorable. Like, I love that she can be the scariest and most competent Bat (she is absolutely 100000% the next Batman I do not take criticism) but also, she’s such a sweetheart. She really loves people (Steph and Duke especially so), she’s an amazing friend and sister, and she is just so authentically herself and does what she wants when she wants, and she works so hard for everything, and I just. Oh my god I love her so much.

my favorite male character: this is so difficult but I have to say Dick Grayson. I Must. He’s basically what started all of this!!! I mean yeah okay Bruce was first, but Robin/Dick is what made Batman interesting and was the first member of the batfam, the one that made it a real family. In addition to that, Dick is just??? So interesting?????? He was the first kid sidekick, he lead the Teen Titans teams, he’s always kind of existed in this place of being the lighthearted one with the Batfam, but the serious one in most other contexts. HE REBELLED FIRST. Nightwing is a fuck you to his dad!!!! I love that! Plus he’s beautiful and has some of the best love interests (I’m talking about Kory and Roy here folks). He’s imperfect and has such depth and I love him kdsjfhjkdshfah

my favorite book/season/etc: I actually really like all the stuff that comes after Bruce “dies”? Seeing them all struggle and fight with each other and everything is really interesting. I love Tim here especially, just bc he’s so fucked up and such a teenager. When characters seem to be having two totally different conversations are SO INTERESTING and that’s what was kind of happening here with Tim and Dick – Tim feels betrayed and hurt, Dick feels stressed and like Tim is ready to move on. And Damian is just an adorable little asshole ksdjfshkjhakjh

my favorite episode (if its a tv show) issue: look I’m a sucker for Dick & Jason feels and I really enjoyed their moments (however few there are) in NTT/Tales of The Teen Titans/etc. They’re pretty small but so cute – it’s really nice to see them trying to figure out how to be brothers!!

my favorite cast member: David Mazouz!!!! Perfect perfect perfect Bruce. I also did like Batfleck, more for the look of exhausted 40 year old man than the story/characterization, but David takes the cake. He does all the different facets of Bruce – traumatized child, obsessive teenager, Brucie the party animal, etc – so well, PLUS THEY HAVE THE SAME BIRTHDAY. It’s meant to be yall

my favorite ship: most of my Batfam ships are one batfam member/one non member (like Dickkory/Dickroy, Dinahbabs, Timkon, etc). the only one fully in the fam would be Bruce/Talia. When written correctly, they are so sweet and so tragic. The star crossed lovers trope has never looked so good as it does when its them. 

a character I’d die defending: Damian!!!! Admittedly I do get annoyed by him,,,, a lot,,,,,, but really. He’s a child who’s been abused and manipulated and lied to. He was raised in such a dangerous, traumatic environment, and I fucking hate when people act like he’s always going to be the annoying, murderous brat he was when he was first taken away from that environment. He has to heal, and he IS healing. He loves animals so much, he learns to love Dick (and at least get along with the others), he makes friends, he doesn’t kill anymore. He is doing better. There’s no fucking way he ends up as cruel and cold-hearted as some people insist he will. If you don’t like him, just shut the fuck up

a character I just can’t sympathize with: Babs. It’s not that I can’t sympathize with her, it’s more that I just don’t like her lol. I find Batgirl!Babs really boring and regressive for literally everyone involved. The way Babs became Oracle was gross but it gave her such GROWTH and she got to be her own character as Oracle (and also tell people off for pitying her bc she’s in a wheelchair). Batgirl was passed on to Cass, who is both Asian and disabled rep, then to Steph, in a way that was much healthier for the Batgirls than how Robin was passed down. Babs being Oracle gives even more rep to disabled children/girls in wheelchairs, and she isn’t stuck in Gotham! She isn’t part of the Batfam, she’s a Bird of Prey!!!! So much more interesting!!!! Plus D*ckB*bs is boring as fuck and does a disservice to both of them. Let them grow and be their own people and stop making me see Batgirl!Babs alongside Robin!Damian. DC, that’s illegal!!!

a character I grew to love: Talia. I was sadly infected with the Grant Morrison bullshit when I first joined the fandom and I hated Talia. But I’ve read more comics and metas about her and I just. I LOVE HER. She is such a badass and I find her motives (when well written) to be really interesting!!! She’s loyal to her dad but wants the best for Damian, and does have genuine affection for Bruce and Jason. She��s not the heartless woman some people/writers make her out to be, she has compassion and drive. She doesn’t care what people think about her. I want to marry her sdkjhfjksah

my anti otp: Jason/Roy. In any context other than RHaTO, it makes no sense and does a disservice to both characters. Jason and Roy would not want to be together in most reboots of DC, because of the connection with Dick. Would you want to date your asshole older brother’s ex/best friend? Would you want to date your ex/best friend’s little brother? Would you like to date a man with that history who is also struggling with severe trauma/addiction issues (respectively) and doesn’t get help for it because of bad writing? Imagine Roy looking Dick in the face and saying “yeah, I’m fucking your little brother, who I sort of knew as a pre-teen”. In RHaTO, this is mostly fine bc Roy and Dick have no relationship at all, and Jason needs someone to take care of, and Roy is so incompetent that he fits that bill. But ANYWAYYYYY point is, I refuse to read fics with this ship in it thank you goodnight

send me a show/movie/fandom and I’ll answer these questions!!

[aeligsido]

I posted 10 467 times in 2021

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#now that i think about it the only time we call each other brother or sister is when we're teasing each other or want to ask for a favor

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

The true rivalry between Jason and Tim is that Jason is a DickKory shipper but Tim is a DickBabs shipper

88 notes • Posted 2021-12-03 00:25:33 GMT

#4

Dick and Jason's fanon relationship for the ask game

Someone wants to see me go apeshit and honestly I have no problem with that lmao.

There’s a lot to say about Jason’s and Dick’s relationship in general, and even more about their fanon relationship (vs their canon one or on its own). If you follow me you probably already know that Dick’s and Jason’s relationship is one I hold close to my heart.

(rest under the cut, careful, it's long! also cw for canon dad bruce i guess, and various mentions to Jason's death.)

For some reasons, fanon likes to imagine that Dick was an awful brother to Jason when he was Robin, even if there’s nothing on page in the comics to support this. (There’s actually more about them being close/trying to get to know each other and spend time together than anything else, really.) I guess it’s to add to Jason's angst, like, I legit never saw any Dick fans use this trope. And like, it’s valid of them I guess, it’s just really frustrating for me who loves Dick and loves Dick’s and Jason’s relationship -- because their whole thing is that they're a found family, and specifically a chosen family. They keep choosing each other (and that’s why, in part, I love them) and accepting each other as family, when they were younger and when they’re both adults as well. It’s just… In canon they have such a huge influence on each other -- like, baby Jason wanted to be just like Dick and took example on him, Dick after Jason’s death decided to not allow any minor on the Teen Titans again, etc… I’ll even say that Dick tried to be better for Jason, both when he was alive and after he died.

Fanon tends to gloss over all of this to go immediately to “Dick was an asshole, he was never here for Jason, everyone hated Jason because he wasn’t Dick/because Dick was mad at him”, and the likes. And it’s frustrating because their relationship is way more complex and way more positive than this. And even when they’re shown in a more positive light, we always end up with something like “Dick was super mad at Jason but then he warmed up to him, Jason used to be scared of Dick’s and Bruce’s yelling matches, they had a really rough start but it went better in the end but it was never enough, Jason is super-jealous of Tim because Tim got big brother Dick, Dick tried to do better with Tim because he wasn’t here enough for Jason”... And again, most of those are very frustrating if not downright a disservice to most of the characters.

So, let’s be clear here: Jason and Dick never had a rough relationship, in the sense that they did have some wrong ideas about the other, but it was all before meeting the other. And all of this is a reboot -- in precrisis, they knew each other before (or at least Dick knew Jason’s parents), and Dick wanted to adopt Jason himself (he was just eighteen lmao, and Jason was like twelve or thirteen I think?). And postcrisis, what do we have? Jason being rightfully upset because criminals and more importantly, Bruce, keeps putting him against Dick’s example even when he doesn’t know him. Dick being rightfully upset because his father figure, who fired him under the pretense that Dick was too young and shouldn’t be a vigilante, who never tried to apologize even when Dick went away, who took one of the last link Dick had of his biological family, this man turned around to take in a new kid out of the blue, gave him the Robin name and title (who are, again, one of Dick’s last links with his family), and literally adopt him (which he never did nor talked about with Dick himself, who always wondered what he was for Bruce). All in the biggest hypocrite moment ever, but that’s another story for another time.

And what happens when these two rightfully angry kids meet for the first time? Well, Jason tries to prove himself to Dick. Dick chooses not to take his anger on the kid and actually protect him. They team up. Dick ends up giving his Robin costume to Jason, with his blessings and his number so Jason can contact him if he needs or wants it. Dick reaches out to Jason after like, one hour at most of meeting him, and you know what? Jason accepts it, takes it gladly, and is happy about it. Because he received way more than he expected -- Dick’s support, and someone in his corner. And after that, for the little time we see them together (which isn’t by the characters’ choice exactly, but because they were both in different books and they didn’t have time to exploit their relationship on page -- like, the Teen Titans comics at this time were. A lot. A lot was happening oduhgui. Plus, Dick was considered a Teen Titans character back then, not a Bat affiliated one like he is today.), they were getting along well, and even seemed to share some inside jokes (it’s not exactly the term I’m looking for, but ways to deal with a parent/your parents in particular, or something you share and joke about because you have this same experience like siblings). They were not the closest, but still close enough to realize they had spent time together. That, plus the famous ski trip they went on together! (I want an issue with just this ski trip… srly we’ve been robbed).

So, the idea that Jason and Dick didn’t like each other, that Dick was an asshole to Jason, or that it took Dick time to warm up to Jason? Nope. Like, it’s far from canon, and honestly it can get me out of a fic so fast. Most of the time if not all the time, it’s played for Jason’s angst, and the fic doesn’t care if it’s deeply OOC for Dick (let’s be honest, it’s the case for any of Tim’s, Jason’s, or Damian’s angst -- Dick is often just used as a prop for it, no matter how or if the role doesn’t fit his character. I’m not judging, everyone enjoys whatever they enjoy, it’s just frustrating as someone who loves Dick and wants to read him to mostly find him written like that). Now, since Dick wasn’t mad at Jason (but at Bruce, the real culprit in the story tbh), you can also get that no one in the heroes community was mean and/or mad at Jason either. He was actually well-liked, especially by the Titans, and he showed a lot of maturity when teaming-up with them. Baby Jason was a sweetheart and you can fucking fight me on this. To continue on this -- there weren’t any shouting matches between Bruce and Dick to scare Jason away, since Dick and Bruce just,,,, you know, didn’t talk to each other, actually. Dick was angry and hurt about Bruce’s action, and Bruce just decided not to address it and to continue as if everything was normal. (Like, honestly, Jason and Dick, the actual children, were more mature than Bruce odiufh.)

NOW just a little point about the Tim-Dick-Jason situation before I go more in depth on the Dick and Jason after Jason’s come-back to life. Tim’s and Jason’s relationship is a complex one and not for this post (maybe for another one later), and I used to love Dick’s and Tim’s relationship before Tim stans destroyed it for me? However, I still love them even if I can’t focus on them anymore, and what I can say is that the idea that Dick was so nice to Tim only because Jason died is like… A huge disservice to both of them, to their relationship, and also deeply untrue. Sure, Jason’s death impacted Dick and the way he interacted with Tim; but not to the extent of that being the only reason why Dick was around then. I think it’s important to note that Dick was in therapy for some amount of time after Jason’s death (I can’t find if he started it before or after, but it doesn’t change that he was in therapy and talked about Jason and his relationship with Bruce), and I do think it influenced his presence around Tim. Mostly also because then Dick was aware that Bruce was in no shape to care for a kid or be careful around Tim, so Dick took upon himself to train Tim himself. AND some time after Tim started as Robin is also when Dick first established himself in Blüdhaven. I’m not sure both events are at the same time, but they’re close enough.

It’s important to realize that when Jason was Robin, Dick had no reason to be around him; Bruce had fired him and never acknowledged their father-son relationship, leaving him to fend for himself without knowing what his place at the Manor was, Dick has the Teen Titans that he was leading, a girlfriend with Kory, he was a young adult trying to live his life with no tie to anyone else. And still, Dick reached out to Jason to have a relationship with him.

Now, with Tim, Dick’s situation was very different -- his and Kory’s relationship ended toward the same time, Dick went to Blüdhaven so was closer to Gotham, he wasn’t with the Teen Titans all time again. That’s basically when Dick shifted again from a Teen Titans character to a Bat-affiliated character, and it shows in his relationships -- he’s allowed to be closer to Tim than what they would show with Jason, but his relationships with every other characters who aren’t Bat-affiliated kind of,,,, faded in the second or even third place. Seeing Tim’s and Dick’s relationship develop on pages was easier. Dick wasn’t close to Tim or an amazing big brother to Tim because he was feeling guilty about Jason, but, as weird as it is, because he was allowed to by DC.

NOW -- for the other part of this, aka their relationship after Jason comes back!

Again, I won’t pronounce myself on the whole Tim-Jason thing because it’s complicated and deserves its own post lmao. BUT I do have things to say about what fanon makes of Jason and Dick then!

And honestly, I can’t keep going with this part without saying that like,,,, Fanon doesn’t get Dick’s character. It just. Doesn’t understand him. It would deserve its own post as well, but there’s one thing in particular about it that poses problems when talking about Jason’s and Dick’s relationship: Dick doesn’t always share Bruce’s morals and beliefs.

More, even, and it’s honestly a pet peeve of mine -- Dick is not Bruce’s Golden Boy. And Jason more than anyone else knows this, because he was there when they were not talking to each other and were basically,,,, not present in each other’s life. I personally hate Jason referring to Dick as “the Golden Boy” or anything like this, because, if anything,,,, Jason is Bruce’s Golden Boy, honestly. He’s -- or, he was after his death -- this standard, this perfect kid no one will be able to compete against, not even Jason himself.

So. Yeah. I really dislike fanon insisting on this one, especially since the only instance of Jason calling Dick like that is from Truth and Justice, from 2021 aka this year. We all know where it comes from lmao.

To go with that -- fanon often if not always has this idea that Dick has to make amend for not being here enough for Jason/for being an asshole to Jason, and how Jason is so nice for forgiving him, or how he’s angry that Tim got Dick as his big brother when Dick hated him, etc. I ranted about all of this just before, so you can get that my feelings on this are far from positives lmao. It’s wrong on so many levels.

I would also add that from what I read of Dick, he is way more flexible about the whole killing thing that Bruce will ever be. Like, outside of the fact that he himself killed the Joker (sadly not permanently, a F in the chat for Huntress who was tasked by Batman to revive the clown), he isn’t as judgemental on it, if not at all. If there’s someone who would just be happy to have Jason back without throwing a fuss about all the killing, it’s probably Dick lmao. As shown after the whole shitshow with the Joker -- Dick is more scared and apprehensive of Bruce’s reactions to him killing that about the fact that he himself killed someone. (I would go as far as to say that he didn’t have any regret in killing the Joker but oh well.)

So, yeah. Fanon does like the take that Dick would side with Bruce and act like his perfect second-in-command, never doubting his decisions, never calling him out on anything, and hating Jason/not trusting him/thinking he’s crazy because of all the killing thing or whatever else. And, like, it doesn’t fit Dick at all? Nightwing isn’t one if not the best leader of the DCU because he keeps on following Batman without asking any questions. Hell, they had a fallout in the first place when Dick was still Robin because Dick was questioning him and his decisions! And it never changed! Dick uses to,,, not let it slide but be more forgiving with Bruce after Jason’s death because he wanted to be here for the new kid(s) and keep on supporting Bruce,,, but it doesn’t mean he always agrees with him or don’t tell him when Bruce acts full of shit, actually. So. Yeah. Dick would be more welcoming of Jason in general -- not happy with the killing and probably that they would talk around it (since, honestly, a lot of Jason’s acting out come from his issues and traumas), but he would still welcome in and help him in general. And. You know. Be there for him. Like he always was.

And, because it’s one of the things that makes me emotional over anything -- Jason trusts Dick. He still sees him as his family, no matter what. If there was someone Jason was not angry at after everything, it was Dick. Like, the Brother in Blood storyline (if I remember the name correctly, the one set after Blüdhaven’s destruction, when Dick is back to living in New York and Jason goes around in a Nightwing costume to kill people and basically fuck up with his big brother lmao)(also the one with Tentatodd LMAO), is literally Jason,,, maybe testing isn’t the right word, but it kind of is at the same time, but just making sure that Dick is still his family -- because it was clear for him but he wanted to make sure it was the same for Dick. And like, listen, it makes me emotional. This boy is angry at the whole world and with good reason but he can’t find it in him to be angry at his big brother I’M EMOTIONAL OKAY.

TDLR; in general, fanon like to put them against each other -- the fact is, in canon, they’ve always chosen each other as family, and always called each other brother even while, you know, not always agreeing on everything, or being angry against the other, or just being a normal sibling. Dick has always come running when Jason called him, and Jason has always gone to Dick when he needed someone in his corner, someone he trusts, before and after his death alike.

And I just like… Have so many beefs with how fanon treats them, because more often than not it’s just to add unnecessary Jason’s angst, and it always takes a toll on Dick’s character. And as someone who prefers when people are fighting together instead of against each other, you can get what I prefer for these two difuhv.

Plus. It’s just the love between them, the real found family, the fact they chose each other and never went back on it, and. It’s just. I love them. Their canon relationship is so good, and fanon usually do them dirty.

So. Rip fanon Dick’s and Jason’s relationship, but you’re not for me.

89 notes • Posted 2021-11-29 01:52:16 GMT

#3

Steph sure is Damian's best mentor (and big sister), yup

196 notes • Posted 2021-11-18 01:00:52 GMT

#2

Back on my "the Batkids play Trauma Bingo" bullshit, but Duke manages to win every time. How? He cheats.

The card: Near-death experience by falling of a big height.

Duke: Nice, I got this one.

Dick: Wait, seriously? When?

Duke, the only one who does his patrol in broad daylight and also never writes a correct patrol report: Yup. Two days ago.

Everyone else, knowing they can't verify the information: ಠ_ಠ

.

The card: Loss of one or more organs.

Tim: FINALLY this one is for me.

Duke: Nice, I got a bingo!

Steph: Wait, you lost an organ???

Duke: Not yet.

Damian: Not yet? What do you mean by "not yet"?

Duke: Well, I can see in the future. And I'm going to lost an organ in the future.

Jason: How can we know it's true? You could totally bullshit us right now.

Duke: Well, how can you prove it's not true?

Everyone: ...

Duke: I mean, I could tell you you'll become bald, but we'll need to wait thirty years to confirm it, so... I win.

573 notes • Posted 2021-06-14 02:55:19 GMT

#1

Loving Dick & Jason is about how they constantly choose each other as family and brothers, no matter when, no matter the continuity, no matter what their lives are at the moment—

It's about how Jason only asked for Bruce not to put any other kid in danger, not to get a new Robin, to kill the Joker for him, and how Dick did all of those (by refusing any more kids in the Teen Titans immediately after learning Jason's death, by refusing for Tim to be Robin until he had no choice anymore but to accept him like he accepted Jason, by killing the Joker)—

It's about how Jason reached out to Dick after coming back bc he wanted to be sure they were still family, and how Dick always comes running for him every time Jason asks him to—

It's about how they're not shy to call each other brother and family and how they reach out to each other and support each other at times and how Jason was never angry at Dick and how Dick kept doing his best with Jason even when he had no obligation to—

I just have so much feelings right now. They're just,,,, they love each other so much.

598 notes • Posted 2021-11-24 03:59:15 GMT

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[lysical]

I also think the whole 'Dick's a player' thing came about because of that whole mix up between writers where he was engaged I think to Kori in one book then another different book at the same time had him sleep with Babs?

Nooooo, that wasn’t a contemporary thing. 

That was terrible writing and a retcon from 2007. 

It’s Nightwing Annual 2, and Dick was engaged to Kory in the early 90s. It retconned a bunch of shit about Dick and Babs to make their romance far more prominent and further back than it really was. 

Yes, the retcon had Dick sleep with Babs while he was engaged with Kory, but this was one of those later retcons after Dick’s characterization started going a bit more off the rails with Devin Grayson. The idea was to push that Babs was the love of Dick’s life and he got caught up in the moment blah blah. It’s a disgusting retcon that does disservice to Dick and Kory’s relationship

Whether Kory would be terribly mad depends on how assimilated she is to Earth tbh. Tamarans are all about emotions and in the 80s she married Karras and wanted to continue to be with Dick despite uh, needing to consummate that marriage and so forth. Back then Dick was the one with a problem with that, and Kory may have later become more Earth-like in her beliefs regarding that issue. Either way, even if Kory would forgive him it’s a gross and dick move, and out of character for Dick Grayson both at all, and especially at the point in his life where he was so in love with Kory.

I prefer not to let that Late Post-Crisis retcon color Dick’s overall characterization and especially not ruin the comics from the time period it seeks to retcon. 

[mandoratheevilchaser]

002 Dcau Dick Grayson?

How I feel about this character: He’s amazing?? My baby?? The best adaptation of Dick Grayson ever??? So underappreciated??????

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Cindy (House & Garden), Candice (Bane) and Miranda Kane (Animal Act).

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Bruce in BTAS. Tim in TNBA.

My unpopular opinion about this character: Well, for starters, he’s not a disservice to comic Dick. Secondly, everyone seems to think he’s an overdramatic jerk in TNBA, which is complete bullshit. Bruce and Barbara screwed him over bad, he had a right to be upset. And thirdly, the mullet is goddamn amazing.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: Wow, this sounds really vague, but I just wish he would’ve been happy.

My OTP: I don’t really have one.

My crossover ship: Ok, ok, hear me out . . . DCAU Dick x NTT Kory (I’m trash™). It is technically different universes so it’s allowed. Also, I just really need someone caring and patient like Kory to take care of Dick after all the shit Bruce and Barbara put him through.

A headcanon fact: I thought long and hard about this (which is why I took four days to reply to this), but at the end of the day I’m really not a headcanon person. I just value canon way too much. Most of the time, the closest I get to a headcanon is “fixing” ooc canon. I mean, of course I would have liked to see DCAU Teen Titans or Dick trying to balance being a superhero alongside dating Bridget Clancy and serving with the BPD, but that’s not a headcanon, that’s comics. I’m really sorry, but I don’t have an answer for this question.

[lysical]

the fanon vs canon thing is sth i find rly interesting so another point to add to what u said: this i think mostly applies to comics, but characters can change when being written by different ppl (see: jason todd), so for a lot of ppl it's very much a pick-and-choose sort of grab bag of canon, especially when it comes to characterisation (also, timelines etc)

I see that used a lot, but it’s actually surprising how much fanon isn’t ‘pick and choose’ canon (and honestly, pick and choose canon is still canon) but just fanon that has become so ingrained that it’s considered canon, and is justified that way. 

A lot of people who say that comics characterization is so all over the place and is constantly changing honestly...a lot of them actually don’t read the comics, or they only read a few select runs. Yes, characters changed with specific continuity changes and retcons, but those didn’t happen every other week. Post-Crisis, for example, was actually very consistent with characters, for decades. Even wildly different writers could usually manage to keep a ‘core’ of a character recognizable. Yes, there are exceptions and some truly terrible characterizations happened when things went bad, but tarring all of canon with that is kind of a disservice, imo. 

Also, characters with such long histories did change and develop over time, and retcons occasionally happened, so just picking out a comic from say, Dick Grayson in 1980 and comparing to a comic from 2003 might be like ‘wait what, omg he’s changed so much’ but...within that timeframe so much happened, several retcons happened, and so on.