#dissociative disorders online are fake.

[afuckingsystemsthoughts]

we've seen a lot of people with DID and OSDD hate being a system. most of us dont hate it per se, its more of the bad parts we hate. i, host, suffer much more mental pain from other disorders we have, not just DID- thats probably the smallest part. for us, our biggest cause of mental pain is bpd and denial of trauma/our posttraumatic disorders- so what were about to say will probably sound biased.

also a note, i only suffer the really dramatic drastic disorienting dissociation everyone with DID online complains about (and claims they have 24/7) only half the time or less. most of the dissociation i experience as host is dissociative amnesia, theres not a day i dont experience that but its usually of the past ill never remember or milder forms like "oh i did that? hm dont remember" "oh they said that? i only remember the interesting parts of the conversation and i cant even remember it verbatim", or emotional/mental detachment and emotional numbing (especially if my mood is too unstable), and staring off forgetting what to do or not knowing how to do it and having to mentally yell at myself

now, for the parts of having DID id absolutely get rid of right now and never want back.

i hate when im trying to do something, i wanna do it alone, i wanna have privacy, wtv. and boom, an alter suddenly appears out of nowhere invading the front. i dont wanna be rude to them because theyre a part of me and more than likely a trauma holder or protector i wouldnt be here without, but i want to have some privacy in my own head. have some things just to me. i am annoyed, i know they feel that. and for that, i feel guilt. for being annoyed by the presence of someone else inside my head, and the guilt gets even worse if its a little, understandably, or a trauma holder whos been through enough rejection already, or a protector who i wouldnt be alive without. i have to show common courtesy to a large group of selves inside my own brain, every second im awake. and that gets tiring. no wonder im always so mentally drained.

having to work around what alters want. this often goes hand in hand with them randomly intruding the front. ill be in the clothing aisle, just to get a simple grey shirt- and an alter will come out when they see a shirt they like. if i refuse to get it, they might feel hurt, and ill feel guilty. and if i look through a whole clothing aisle, more than one part will come out and make me feel drawn to the different clothing they like (sometimes a few alters making me feel drawn to a few different clothing styles at once) i get a headache from that and dont like how i feel pulled into many different directions by my own brain. (id experience that before i even knew what plurality was or really knew my alters or even remotely felt plural and it caused me a lot of mental pain and headaches)

feeling like a stranger to myself now because i realize how much i was a stranger to myself, i didnt even know i was abused, and i didnt even know a lot of things i did. and feeling guilt for not knowing i was a stranger to myself for most of my life. i should have known but i didnt. i was too dumb to pick up on the clues that someone inside me ran away with my body and my life. theres even small things i didnt know about myself i discovered years later. example, i didnt know i asked for a get-well card for a doll when i pretended it was sick until i discovered it about 8-10 years later. and theres big things i never knew. some of these things were people. when i was little, i was around people i should remember, i was around them enough. but when i see them again in 2019, i think its the first time even stepping foot in the place, and seeing the people. i only knew that i knew them when i was little because i was told that in 2019. i also dont remember an entire year, minus a small snapshot memory. i cant be sure if the memories i think i have of it are real. which leads me to the other part about DID i hate and if i could get rid of only one part of it, this would be it.

the dissociative amnesia (mostly of trauma) and its effects. i dont remember majority of my early childhood, and i only remember about half of my mid childhood, maybe a tad more than half. the memories i have, its like im watching an eerie, dark tinted movie of myself. i dont remember being abused in any of the memories before around 8, and very few are of me being unhappy. i think to myself, "if i was abused, id have memories of it or be unhappy." i didnt feel anything. i just... existed. no feelings, maybe an artificial happiness, but no feelings outside of that. its like i was a robot in control of my own actions. i tell myself i dont have trauma and im just holding onto the "impossible possibility" i was abused as a small child as an excuse for being this way "because i cant accept i was born broken, i dont have an excuse to be this way." then, someone comes along who explains to me what i did in the memories when i was little and throughout my entire childhood was a sign of abuse, and i feel valid and confident about myself because im reassured im not born broken scum, but then i realize that means someone violated my body and ill never know who did first, how old i was, where it first happened. and ill never know what all my body has been used for either. then ill feel disgusted with my body and want to escape it or self harm. and i live with a person who flip flops between being emotionally abusive/manipulative and being nice and shes used my dissociative amnesia against me before, used it to say things didnt happen and the memories were planted, and to say i did things i didnt do. other people used my dissociative amnesia against me before too. but the most painful part for me, is im stuck in a vicious, mentally draining cycle- feeling like my trauma isnt real and hating myself because i feel like i was born broken, just wanting to know i was abused, then i find out and i feel uncomfortable in my body, i cry, i feel alone because the only people id allow myself to seek comfort from arent around, and sometimes self harm.

for me, im fine with being a system. i wouldnt trade most of my alters or the memories weve made together since i found out i had a system and met them. they taught me what family really is. they taught me what community means. its the parts that make it disordered id gladly get rid of. sure, we want our own bodies, id like them to have their own bodies too, but im fine with them just being in my head when theyre not intrusive.

DID isnt fun, but it isnt always living hell 24/7. not for every DID system. not for us. but its still not "friends in your head" and even when you are friends with some of your alters they can still intrude on you when you want to be alone and you'll still have the distress from having DID. its not always fun but its not always hell.

[duck-jamm]

are we ever going to talk abt the fact that there is no winning when it comes to the internet for ppl with DID? if a system's account isn't centered around being a system and they mention it casually, it's because they're "hopping onto the trend". if a system's account IS centered around them being a system, they're a "malicious faker". disordered people should be allowed to post & interact with the content they want to post & interact with without the legitimacy of their disorder coming into question.

[g-n-c-quoi]

the anti-endo side of the internet is rotting my brain by the second what are you people DOING

this is a little bit about the new octocon app but just in general-

speaking as a medically recognized (not diagnosed for safety reasons but doctors are aware) P-DID system, i cannot believe i have to say this, but endogenic systems are entirely unharmful and you look ridiculous trying to pretend they do

“DID/OSDD/etc is a trauma disorder!!” you would be hard pressed to find an endogenic system actually claiming to have those disorders. the vast majority of them have self described as non-disordered

“you can’t be a system without trauma!!” do we know that for a fact? dissociative disorder research is so full of stigma and misinformation that it’s mind boggling, do you honestly trust the dsm-5 to have literally every example of being a system ever written down verbatim?

also systems can be intentionally created for spiritual or personal reasons, please google search tulpamancy

also also it’s incredibly weird and potentially dangerous in some cases to demand proof that someone has experienced life altering brain damaging trauma before you can respect them as who they say they are

“they’re stealing resources!” literally what resources. therapy? they’re stealing therapy? please be serious.

w/ regards to pk/sp and octocon- what tangible harm is it doing to you for someone who calls themselves an endo system to use the same app as you. answer quickly.

i don’t even particularly care that much about this, i’ve largely stopped talking about being a system online because of how mind numbingly absurd the community is, i just cannot overstate how little this discourse matters

if someone is earnestly and intentionally faking being a system then the consequences of that behavior that turn up in their social life will be more than enough without you ridiculing them relentlessly for something that most of the time has little if any material impact

you’re just diet fakeclaiming please find something else to do with your time than bothering people who aren’t bothering you

[thaltro]

this ask is a free pass to talk abt did/osdd as much as you want 👍

I love these free passes..thank you..please give me more 🫶🏽

Spending my pass on a rant about the online perception of DID/OSDD

One thing I find interesting is the concept of fake claiming and how that’s affected the community. In 2020 there was a large increase in mental health “awareness” online- mass vague posting of common symptoms and connecting it to larger disorders. This eventually lead to a lot of people misdiagnosing themselves with DID/OSDD. And Contrary to popular belief, I actually think most misdiagnosing was in good faith- younger teens for the first time connecting to disassociation, maladaptive day dreaming, emotional swings, PTSD, and derealization- and genuinely believing they had it. It’s more likely they had more common disorders like maybe Bpd, DDD, depression, psychosis- because there is a huge overlap in symptoms. (It’s also important to note it was also a huge awakening for actual systems too- because I’m definitely not saying everyone who had did/osdd in 2020 was misdiagnosed, in a lot of cases people were right!)

Buttttt

The internets reaction to this wasn’t with reeducation or kindness or even respectful criticism- it created a whole list of “faking signs”. I personally think the people who misdiagnosed themselves harmed the community much less then the people pushing for constant fakeclaiming. And now these arbitrary concepts plague actual systems pushing them into a deeper denial and opening them up to waves of unwanted harassment. Like ok, here’s some common misconceptions you’ll see (all the ones I’m listing are just bullshit and are contradicted with actual medical research)

-Systems can’t have fictives

-Systems can’t unmask

-Systems can’t have littles

-Systems can’t have factives

-Systems can’t have internal relationships

-Systems can’t have high amnesia

-Systems can’t have rapid switches

-Systems can’t have faceclaims or go by different genders/sexualities

ALL OF THIS IS BULLSHIT! None of these actually are backed up with medical research! And the worst part is I see groups of people just harass normal systems who show these normal symptoms and constantly fakeclaim them. I see cringe compilations, r/fake disorder cringe, tik toks, and video essays just spewing this nonsensical shit and it genuinely hurts. (It’s SO ANNOYING when they say shit like “people who do this hurt actual systems” YOUR HURTING ACTUAL SYSTEMS SHUT UP 😭) but Yes I do think there are people out their who do fake this disorder and use it to hurt and manipulate people. But I don’t think that’s the majority of misdiagnosed people. Even if someone was wrong I think it’s safer to just ignore them then to spread misinformation about DID/OSDD and encourage the possible harm onto genuine systems. (Also being wrong and admitting you are wrong is fine)

But yeah I’ll end my rant by saying If you support this weird online fakeclaiming witch hunts then I don’t want to associate with you. And to the self diagnosed systems or suspecting systems, it’s incredibly hard being in that position- harassment is almost guaranteed online and that sucks. Self diagnosis is valid especially if you can’t afford DID specialists- however with that statement If you do self diagnosis its necessary to do research. Don’t look at plural pedia or random websites- I recommend reading the DSM and The haunted self (it explains the fundamentals of structural dissociation)

PDF for the actual book ^^ (it’s also good for self diagnosed systems because it can help you weed out any other possible disorder overlap with BPD and PTSD)

But yeah 🙁 sorry for the rant I’m just really frustrated with the current climate of the internet especially for systems.

[many-but-one]

I used to think I was endogenic and got hate for it. Then I became exactly like the people that bullied me. Thankfully, I’m not anymore.

So I’m gonna get on here and do one of my rare syscourse posts because I have been seeing an undeniable increase of hatred on my timeline simply because I follow the did/osdd tags.

Those of you that have been around a while and have seen our posts talking about this might recall this, but we used to be very firmly anti-endo. We consider ourselves endo neutral these days mainly because we just don’t care what other people do with their lives and it’s not up to me to fake claim them or tell them how to live their life. People like to be angry at endos for spreading misinfo, when I’ve seen anti-endos do the exact same thing. Quite often, actually.

One of the biggest reasons I was anti-endo was because I was angry. I was angry at the fact that people would claim they created their system for fun when my existence as a system was full of misery and pain. Fun fact, I’m still full of misery and pain, but I was taking it out on people I didn’t even know. I was angry that I didn’t get to choose this and they did. I was angry that they got to “have fun” with it while I suffered. I hated my disorder, I hated my system. I was so angry all the time. I went on rants. I was mean. I was full of hate.

Then as I went through the therapeutic process and learned to not only tolerate but actually love my system despite all of their faults and despite all of the ways the disorder made me miserable, I realized I cared a lot less about endos. It felt less like a slap in the face that they existed. I realized that me being angry was the root of why I disliked them so much. I realized that me being angry and hateful wasn’t actually helping anyone.

However, there’s something else I want to talk about. I’ve mentioned this vaguely from time to time, but I’ve never spoken that deeply about it.

I used to think I was endo. I joined system spaces online for the first time when I was about 16-17 years old. I was the host at that time (Jules, though they have fused with like a bazillion parts since then due to therapy so now I go by Delphine) and I was having experiences of a dissociative disorder. I was dissociative, I was having amnesia gaps, I was hearing voices in my head, and it was the first time I ever had a flashback (though I didn’t really understand that’s what it was at the time.) I met the first parts I ever spoke to directly back then, parts that don’t exist the same way today thanks to healing. S, A, and “The Bad Man” (father introject) were the first three parts that spoke to me. I knew by then I had DID. But I didn’t know my trauma. All I knew was that I may have witnessed some DV when I was really young (couldn’t remember it though, I just knew my mother was severely abused by my father) and that my dad was abusive to me as a teen. I didn’t even consider the fact that I couldn’t remember most of my childhood before the age of 10-11, and everything else in my life was spotty at best. I remembered a lot of my childhood! Or so I thought. I thought my childhood was completely fine except for my dad being a bit of a dick to me when I was a teenager.

So I thought I was endogenic. I knew that I hadn’t created these parts on purpose (though A stole her name from a fanfic I had read a few years prior so I thought that maybe I did make her up) so I thought maybe birth trauma had to do with it (I was born 9 weeks premature) or maybe I had formed my parts way later in life than normal since I’d always been a “late bloomer.” I tried making friends in the system community, to try and understand what was happening to me. I had genuine traumagenic DID, but I didn’t know it. As soon as I said I was endo to anyone I would be met with such extreme vitriol that I was chased away VERY quickly. I was told I was crazy, I was told I was faking a severe disorder for attention, I was told to kill myself, I was told that I am a terrible person and stealing resources from other systems, etc. It was really bad. I never spoke about it again. I deleted my entire system-related online presence. I believed I was a horrible faker, I was crazy, everything.

Meanwhile I was actively having nightmares of witnessing extreme child torture, I was having huge gaps in my memory, I was having random bouts of extreme suicidality and was self harming almost every day. I was dissociating off my ass, I barely even got through my junior year of high school. I missed so much school due to my mental health that the public school system almost took me to court to court-order me to go to school. I didn’t even try to talk about any of this to a therapist or counselor because I was certain that I had been faking the DID and that I was actually just crazy and I didn’t want to steal resources from “actual systems.” I had multiple suicide attempts. I didn’t get help until my school ordered me to go to the mental ward and then was assigned a therapist shortly after. Then I jumped from therapist to therapist, one of which said that I must be bipolar due to my mood swings. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar I for years. Years.

Years that I could have been trying to heal from DID taken from me because I was so heavily bullied for thinking I was endogenic. I was completely convinced I had bipolar and I must have just been having a psychotic episode every time I was hearing voices or acting strangely.

I was diagnosed with DID at age 22, just a month or so shy from my 23rd birthday. I went 6 years thinking I was crazy and delusional because of the system community. The worst part? I let my anger get to me and I became exactly like them. A little less intense, definitely didn’t tell people to kts or call them names or anything, but I was angry. Angry at the fact that I’d been a system all this time, angry that it had affected my life for so long, angry that endos “made a mockery” of what the disorder actually was. Then as mentioned previously, I was able to get over that anger. It makes me incredibly sad that I used to be so vitriolic and bitter and that could have seriously impacted a system who was in the same situation I was.

This is not to say that all endos are actually systems who don’t know their trauma. Some of them are genuinely endo, and I don’t really care about that. However, there is no person on the internet who can truly decipher whether or not an endo is a traumagenic system who just doesn’t know their trauma or who is non-traumagenic. I genuinely thought with my whole chest that I had no trauma and that whatever trauma I might have had was nowhere near serious enough to cause a system, so I must be endo, right?

*Loud, incorrect buzzer noise*

Turns out I have RAMCOA related traumas and my system is made up of thousands of parts. I didn’t just have trauma, I had Trauma. Years and years of extreme and extensive child torture were hidden so well that I couldn’t have even begun to guess that’s what my trauma history was, even after I was finally diagnosed. (Though I should’ve known with how intense our gatekeeper was about never telling me Anything)

Moral of the story here is this:

Please consider that the endos you speak badly about could be traumagenic systems. And you would never know. Behind the screen they could be showing clear signs of a dissociative disorder, but you wouldn’t know unless they specifically described such experiences—and nobody is entitled to hearing about other people’s personal experiences or struggles. I didn’t get the help nor the community I desperately needed back then, a teen who felt like their life was turned upside down and shaken about at all times.

Be kind. Stop hating other people for stuff like this. It matters so, so little in the grand scheme of things. These internet dramas are so chronically online that nobody in the irl world would even begin to comprehend it. It doesn’t matter as much as you think it does. But what does matter is how you treat others, because that sticks with people forever.

That’s all I’ve got. Thank you, everyone.

[interstellarsystem]

Endogenic Systems and Experiences in the Neurodivergent Community

We tend to stay mostly on the fringes of syscourse nowadays without directly interacting with it too often but I'm going to post this more broadly and less focused on our specific instance of this because community-wise I think it's important to talk about.

Endogenic and other non-traumagenic systems are so commonly excluded from so many neurodivergent-safe spaces where they would otherwise be able to gain knowledge about the disorders they might have, share experiences and coping strategies with peers, or at least have a sense of community that is so commonly valuable to disabled and/or neurodivergent people. In a lot of cases, even people who only support non-traumagenic systems get shoved out.

[Continued under the readmore as it's long.]

This obviously harms non-traumagenic systems, but I have to point out that when people sit there and say "we care about REAL disabled people!", I have to say.... Do you? Because if you did care about those with mental illness, physical disability or neurodivergence, you in my mind wouldn't exclude them based on something unrelated to the topic itself which might even be something as small as holding an opinion that other people get to be the judge of their own experiences. You can say that you care about "real" disabled people, but what about when a traumagenic DID system also has a tulpa that they consider just as valid and real as their alters? What about when a system labels themselves as quoigenic because in reality, you owe no one the knowledge that you are vulnerable and traumatised? What about when a system starts out as endogenic but gains so much trauma later on that they develop dissociative symptoms?

We're quoigenic because while yes we are diagnosed with DID:

DID does not have trauma in the diagnostic criteria so our diagnosis doesn't mean anything by way of origin. Nontraumagenic is not the same as nondisordered the same way that traumagenic isn't the same as disordered.

We cannot remember a time before we were plural so we cannot say with accuracy what our actual origin was.

We have headmates we consider to be from both traumagenic and endogenic origins and it feels unfair to pick one.

We don't owe anyone a quick little "hey, we have trauma!" flag on our pinned post which can easily paint us as a target. This is the exact reason we don't share our triggers online--it's not safe.

You don't owe anyone personal medical information including your diagnostic history, your trauma history or lack thereof, your current medications or how many times you've been in a hospital. That is your business and yours alone to decide who you share it with. It's downright dangerous to share some of it, especially so publically. So who is anyone online that clearly isn't your specific medical practitioner to decide whether your experiences are real enough to allow you into spaces meant for a usually completely unrelated thing? Why would someone holding the opinion that endogenic systems get to decide what labels they use be denied access to spaces just because they support people with differing beliefs and/or experiences?

If we as a system with multiple disabilities want to go into a space for people who are schizoaffective because we need others who won't immediately jump on the ableism train when discussing something we're diagnosed with that has so much stigma, should we be denied that just because we don't label our origin with a clear-cut "we are traumatized!!" label? Should we be denied access to spaces because we don't want to sit around and smile while parts of our system and other members of our community are called fake and evil and whatever else they come up with? It's so common in spaces for people with disabilities to be exclusive to traumagenic systems and people with an anti-endogenic mindset that people don't realise they're not only hurting the endogenic community, but literal chunks of their own community itself.

I can't even begin to understand the reason why.

Endogenic systems by just existing do not cause harm. They're not like a transphobe you would not be safe around by default of having a label. Not every nontraumagenic system is a saint but if you took any communtiy and called everyone in it the equivalent of an unproblematic holy angel, you'd be lying. People are bad in every community, some worse than others, but the nontraumagenic system community literally just wants to exist--and yes, sometimes a nontraumagenic system (or supporter of such) does have dissociative symptoms, or maybe they have autism, or maybe they're physically disabled. Should they be not allowed access just because of the way they chose to label their system, or their opinion of people picking their own labels for their personal identity?

What exactly is the reason they're so excluded everywhere? I'd try to assume that this level of exclusion (to the point of endos being on DNIs next to transphobes and racists) would mean there's some real harm being done on a community-wide scale, but even when looking for it there isn't any explanation we've been able to find. "They're fake" is all we seem to see which has no actual backing whatsoever. "They're harmful" is another but.. How? We might be looking in the wrong places, but we have never seen an actual explanation for how nontraumagenic systems cause harm as a community just by being themselves.

At this point, I have to wonder how many people who say "we care about real disabled people!" are just covering up their "we care about socially acceptable disabled people who I understand and/or do not find cringey" sentiment instead. Being neurodivergent should never be about fitting into tight little boxes--it's part of the whole point of having a community like this. You're not the majority, and that's okay. So why are we dividing the disabled community into boxes too?

Of course, this doesn't only apply to ND spaces. LGBT+ spaces are similar and even more divided from the concept of being a system that it makes even less sense to block nontraumagenic systems from entering the space. How does their system origin relate to their LGBT+ identity? Sometimes it can, but should a trans person be excluded from a trans space because they have a friend who is an endogenic system and they support them fully?

Overall, the main point is that it makes no sense whatsoever to be anti-endo in general, let alone so violently anti-endogenic system to the point where you hurt members of your own community due to it. Sometimes from something as simple as them supporting endogenics alone. Your safe spaces aren't actually safe if you exclude a nonharmful group who also belong in that space due to having a personal identity or opinion different to yours. If you want somewhere to be a safe, inclusive space, it should include everyone as long as letting those people in won't cause harm. People who are seeking to cause harm (racists, transphobes, etc) obviously do not belong in a safe space because they seek to harm others, thus making the space unsafe. But people who just want to be themselves without harming anyone should be included in your space if they fall under whatever it may be topic-wise. Even the "cringey" ones. Even the ones who don't quite make sense to you or have "contradicting" labels. Even the ones who use labels completely differently to the way you do. And even the ones who are uninformed or misinformed but trying their best to learn. Your safe space is not safe if it excludes those who do not follow your every single mindset and thought without any deviation.

[theinfernalcollective]

This is something I've had written for a while. Me being diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder. I am open about the diagnosis with close family, and finally my parents. At first I was very closed about it online.

Unfortunately I was diagnosed after it became a trend online with teenagers that have made a complete and total mockery of this disorder. I'm well aware I will get shit on for saying that teenagers on the internet fake having dissociative identity disorder, as well as other disorders. But its true and it happens all the time. Take a look at tiktok for example. TheWonderlandSystem, and tics n roses. Its prime content for teenagers faking DID. and its disgusting having to scroll through social media and see people making a complete mockery of a disorder. A disorder that has had such a large negative impact on my life, my friends and my relationship..

although DID is typically a more covert disorder unless your around people who have known you for years your not going to notice if someone with DID switches. I recently found out that my mum knew when I switched, which was a great shock to me. As I thought they barely noticed as I have distanced myself from then over the years. However other friends that aren't as close, and extended family? They won't know i have this disorder. They would never guess that I went through such traumas to have this disorder. When I first found out that councelors suspected I had DID I felt ashamed. Like I was some sort of freak, someone to be locked away and after researching and finding out the original name for DID was multiple personality disorder it only made it worse. I didn't want people to know me as the person with no actual identity. If I was born years earlier, I would have most likely be placed in an asylum.

The way DID has been portrayed online is not accurate to what it actually is. Online people act like when another part fronts its an entirely different person and that every part in the system is fully formed and communication is great. And truth is that's not how it is at all. Alot of teenagers on the internet and I think everyone knows what kind of teenager I'm talking about like to jump from disorder to disorder faking them for a trend. I know people back in school that faked having tourettes and Unfortunately I was dragged along into that. But I quickly left that group of friends because I knew it was wrong, and its where disorders like ADHD and tourettes started getting popular online. And I would watch them set up a camera and pretend to tic, stop the video and there would be nothing for the rest of the day. This was always in the middle of the day, in the middle of the school.

Another thing is you do not have DID if you weren't traumatized. It is a complex trauma based disorder. I get very heated over the TransDID people and endogenics. It absolutely sucks when you live with a disorder that you wish you didn't have because of how badly its affected your life becomes a mockery for the internet. Alot of people don't even understand what DID is because of the amount of misinformation that is spread around by edgy teenagers wanting to feel all special for faking something they don't have. Oh they have problems for sure but no. They do not have DID.

[multiplicity-positivity]

Here’s some positivity for systems who have been fakeclaimed!

It is an unfortunate reality that many systems have been fakeclaimed at some point in their lives. It is a common occurrence for people to believe they know more about what someone is experiencing more than that person themselves. However, being fakeclaimed is not at all an indication that your system isn’t real or that you’re faking your plurality in any way! So here’s to all the systems out there who have been fakeclaimed in the past!

💧 Shoutout to those who have been traumatized due to being fakeclaimed!

☁️ Shoutout to systems who have split alters or other headmates as a result of being fakeclaimed!

❤️‍🩹 Shoutout to systems with headmates who reassure the rest of their system that they are in fact real and valid after being fakeclaimed!

💧 Shoutout to systems whose plurality formed as a result of being fakeclaimed in some other way!

☁️ Shoutout to systems whose plurality has not been fakeclaimed, but who have been fakeclaimed in some other aspect of their identity!

❤️‍🩹 Shoutout to systems who have to avoid certain spaces and communities due to the sheer amount of fakeclaiming!

💧 Shoutout to systems who reinforce the validity of their plurality internally so as to not be negatively affected by fakeclaimers!

☁️ Shoutout to those who used to fakeclaim others in the past, but have since changed for the better and refuse to fakeclaim anymore!

❤️‍🩹 Shoutout to systems who have been fakeclaimed due to being endogenic, xeno origins, mixed origins, or presenting their plurality in unorthodox ways!

💧 Shoutout to systems with dissociative disorders who have been fakeclaimed due to being self diagnosed or for refusing to post proof of their diagnosis online!

☁️ Shoutout to those who have been fakeclaimed by friends, family members, or other loved ones!

To any system who has been fakeclaimed in the past for any reason, we want to remind you that the thoughts and opinions of others have no real claim on your system’s validity! You are real, your system is real, and your plurality is valid, regardless of what anyone else has told you in the past. While fakeclaiming certainly can hurt, remember it’s more of a negative reflection on those who fakeclaimed you rather than an indication of the validity of your system!

We hope every system who has been fakeclaimed can find peace, rest, healing, and joy in their futures. Know that you ARE plural and you do belong in the plural community as you are! You don’t have to change to be more valid or adjust the way you view yourself due to being fakeclaimed. You belong, you matter, and we feel so honored to be able to share these spaces with you!

[the-moonjay-forest-system]

(Found this in our drafts guessing whoever wrote it was too scared to post it -Yellow)

Do fakeclaimers like actually believe they're helping disordered peeps? Like they believe they're saving us all from the icky fakers when they're actually creating more harm and stigma. Or are they just purposefully being Jerks with no care for the people living with the disorder at all?

I'm terrified to talk about my symptoms like at all, I'm worried about posting online, being openly a system on here, telling my friends or family and even seeking help. Yes fakeclaimers you have indeed gotten in the way of a person's recovery and I'm certainly not the only one. I feel like everyone sees DID as nothing but a lie told by attention seeking teens and as a queer young person with dyed hair, alternative clothing and autism I'd never be believed by anyone even though none of that has anything to do with whether or not I could have a dissociative disorder? And I have been believed before by people who's opinions actually matter.

At this point simply claiming to have DID or OSDD online is a sign of faking..I guess we should all just hide away right? Live in shame and secrecy that must be what's best of course! Totally not ableist/s.

I have a lot of respect for those who aren't afraid of fakeclaimers or being posted onto fakedisordercringe, systemcringe etc. Those who announce who's fronting, who regularly post DID/OSDD content with your face shown, who refuse to hide away and keep your disorder secret. I wish I could be like you, we don't deserve to hide our disorders and symptoms out of fear of bullying, harassment and being invalidated.

[orange-orchard-system]

Got a hate ask on my other blog (funnier-as-a-system) today. I'm not gonna respond to it directly, but I'm gonna go over it fully just as an example of why I don't take anti-endos or sysmeds seriously and find them to be just bullying assholes who don't know what they're talking about. Apologies for the rare discourse post, but I felt it would be useful to have a personal example I can point to if I ever get any more asks than I already have about why I block anti-endos and sysmeds and don't want them on my blogs.

[ID: A screenshot of an anonymous ask, which reads: ""Systems" aren't real. Please stop being ableist against people with DID and our struggles. Pretending to be one of us while simultaneously mocking us makes you look like a piece of shit. Also, DID isn't fucking funny, you're just cruel and ableist. Go see a psychiatrist, get your personality disorders and Munchausens taken care of, and stop pretending to have DID when you don't. We don't need you, our community is better off without teenagers faking DID as a meme. To be honest, I wish you and literally everyone like you were more likely to kill yourself as someone with a real mental illness, because you don't deserve to be alive if this is what you're doing with your life. You're just a delusional bully and neo-nazi" ./ end ID]

Starting from the top, apparently anyone with DID who's ever described themselves as a system is faking now. Nevermind that it's been a term in psychology and the community for decades now! All systems are fake!

I have DID. I've said as much many times. Not that I think this person would consider this a counterargument, but I feel it deserves restating considering a fair amount of my posts are specifically about my DID and managing the symptoms of it.

If I want to find humor in my own disorder, I'm going to. I'm not going to resign myself to misery and self-hate just to please some randos on the Internet. I crawled my way out of the pit of self-hate and am not just gonna jump in there again just to avoid a couple asks and assholes. And I'd make a point here about systems that don't come from trauma or aren't disordered, but what's the point of that when they think literally all systems are fake?

Ohoho! Disableism towards other mental disorders! Isn't the irony sweet?

Not to toot my own horn, but I just love the lack of awareness when it comes to "we don't need you." No, I guess you don't need me... but you'll be going without the work I've done both online and offline to teach people about dissociation and plurality. Not to mention the terms I've coined that make people feel seen, the experiences I've talked about that make people feel less alone, the building of spaces to let others talk about their own problems and experiences, and the general promotion I've done of plural representation in media. No, you don't need me, but I've been doing work to assist the DID and wider plural communities for years now. And what have you been doing? Sending hate asks to people with DID for being too happy?

I'm an adult. I've mentioned before that I go to university and have a job. Seems like even online, I can't escape the assumption that I'm a teenager, smh. Also, I'm much more worried about the teenagers you might be sending this to than any kind of unquantifiable harm a couple teenagers faking DID could do, considering how clearly you wish to do harm with your words. Especially considering the next few sentences...

Oh, so we're just moving onto blatant suicide baiting and admitting you want systems to die. Got it. Totally not a bigot, right.

Wait... "Real mental illnesses"? Didn't you just accuse me of having several earlier? Or do personality disorders and Munchausen Syndrome not count? (Also, do they think being suicidal is a requirement to be mentally ill? They know not all disorders or presentations of disorders involve suicidality, right?)

Well, you got the delusional part right (which, side note, do you think it's impossible for people to have both DID and psychosis? Big yikes even if no, but that's what these asks always seem to imply), but I think this post might be the closest anyone can call "bullying", considering I'm not giving you an opportunity to respond as I tear down your argument. But maybe the definition of peer abuse changed to *checks notes* running a blog talking about plurality in a positive manner since I last checked.

These people do know what a Neo-Nazi is, right? They know what a Nazi is? Because it feels like people just use it as a stand-in for "general asshole" when it means a specific sort of ideology and bigotry. Ironic that they'd be so pissed about "mockery" and treating serious topics "as a meme", but then they go and misuse a term for a very dangerous kind of ideology and person.

Alright, I think I got that out of my system. Please be careful out there, guys! It feels like the number of hate asks I've seen people get has been going up. I'm in a stable enough place to make a demonstration out of this, but don't push yourself to have a snappy comeback or write essays responding to these assholes if you don't think you're up for it. Hell, I rarely write things like this myself, I just chose this ask to respond to because it was such a clear example of how hypocritical and foolish this particular brand of assholes is that I couldn't pass up the opportunity to break it down.

[pluraldeepdive]

I want to share this article archived by the wayback machine in 1997 and I believe to be written by Dr. John M. Grohol. Here is a link to the archived page. I feel like it's helpful to see a piece of history like this because, even almost THIRTY YEARS later, people are still called fake or have doubt cast on them for simply being open on the Internet about having DID or being a system!

_________________________

"The Prevalence of Multiples Online

Multiple Personality Disorder or DID Seems Prevalent Online

We see a growing number of individuals who visit our Web site and write us e-mail, as well as participate in mental health chats, that seem to have multiple personality disorder (MPD), or the disorder's newest name, dissociative identity disorder (DID). People with DID seem to be in many support rooms found online for mental health support. We even host a popular discussion forum for MPD/DID here on Mental Health Net.

So what's this all about? Is DID really that prevalent online?? Does the online world somehow draw more people with DID to it? Is DID being diagnosed more often because of more accurate tests? What's going on here??

From our experiences, it seems clear that a little bit of everything is involved in the greater numbers of people who suffer from this disorder showing up online. First is the greater knowledge and education amongst behavioral healthcare professionals about this disorder. If they know what to look for, which they are better trained to do more now than ever, they are more likely to be able to accurately diagnosed MPD/DID in individuals. This has been accomplished by greater research in this area in recent years as well as more information being trickled down to the clinicians who actually do most of the diagnosing and therapy of individuals with this disorder.

In addition to greater numbers of individuals being diagnosed with this disorder, many more of those people who get the diagnosis are coming online to find out more information and support for their problem. While there is still debate about how prevalent MPD/DID is within the general population, finding reliable and accurate epidemiological information about the disorder can often be difficult, if not downright impossible. Much of this is due to the political debate which has surrounded the diagnosis of MPD/DID in the past few years (Coons, 1989). Many misconceptions still exist and are even perpetrated by some mental health professionals. So information found online may fill some people's needs with this disorder.

But because it is a rare disorder, it also means there won't be any support groups available in their community for this problem. Like rare medical conditions and the popularity support groups for those have enjoyed online, so too are MPD/DID groups popular online. People with this disorder have found one another and can discuss issues that only other people with DID/MPD can understand and sympathize with.

Last, the symptoms of DID/MPD are such that there is often times an accompanying (and justified) social fear, out of concern of the ramifications of switching personalities when in the company of others (whether at work, at home, at a party, etc.). This fear is not nearly as powerful or present when in an online chat room or discussion forum. This is probably because such forums are devoid of many of the social cues and nonverbal communications which may encourage an emerging personality to present him or herself. It may be easier, in fact, for someone who suffers from MPD/DID to talk to others in such a forum because of the ability to remain present in a singular personality.

There is no clear reason why so many people seem to have this disorder in online chat rooms. It is likely a combination of factors which have resulted in this perception. This should be no need or cause for alarm, since individuals who have DID/MPD we've spoken to have overwhelmingly given high marks to the experiences they've had in online support rooms and forums. As more and more people come online, we will expect to find more rare mental disorders represented, especially those which have a social component which may be helped through an online modality of communications."

[sys-confessions]

the host and initial here. i fear us going for a proper diagnosis and i'm really scared of hearing smth like "it's all in your head". just because there's barely any knowledge of dissociative disorders in our country. there are even no official terms for osdd types (we're an osdd-1b system) in our language, only for did

maybe i shouldn't speak on that if all i have done was online research (albeit on three languages including our native) and didn't actually go to a psychiatrist with that, but the fear of being fakeclaimed by a specialist is too strong... i'm having enough doubts even now, despite everything, and the "you're just faking" from a qualified psychiatrist is the last thing i need...

.

[damnfandomproblems]

Listen, yeah most of these kids claiming to have DID, and especially those who claim to have it without trauma, are faking, but some of those people may genuinely have DID and may genuinely think they developed without trauma because their brain is still suppressing/blacking out the trauma or the alters who do remember the trauma may not feel comfortable/safe enough yet to come forth and share it

One thing about DID is that it will more often than not come with dissociative amnesia. The people in the "endo" community who do actually have DID and not some other disorder with overlapping symptoms, and those who aren't just outright faking, just don't remember their trauma yet, or they simply can't accept that DID is a trauma based disorder and find it too scary to accept the fact that without their trauma they wouldn't exist, so they desperately cling to the community that says otherwise even though that community is causing harm and massive misinformation to people with DID

Saying you can DID without trauma is like saying you can have PTSD without trauma. It's literally impossible, as both those disorders are born from trauma. Sure, you may not remember your trauma, and you are showing all the symptoms, and so you believe you have the symptoms without the source, but the trauma is still there. It still happened

If you truly have alters and you truly believe you never been traumatized and that your brain just splintered off into multiple personalities without trauma, please, I mean this genuinely with the upmost kindness, seek some kind of therapy and help, even if that help is an a free online forum or something within you budget and physical limits

If you have alters, you have trauma, even if you don't remember it, and while it will hurt to re-remember it and process it, it will result in much more happiness and comfort and peace later on. And if you're scared of therapy/help because you're scared they'll try and push you all to fuse and become a singlet, there are therapist out there who focus on healing from trauma while also strengthing communication and peaceful cohabitation instead of final fusion. You may need to look a little harder for them, but I promise they're out there

All this hate towards "endos" is just hurting people with DID rather than getting rid of the fakers. Rather than being spiteful, be kind and firm. Most of these people are kids, after all, kids desperate and so starved for attention they think faking a serious trauma based disorder is the only way to get that attention

Just educate them on what DID is, what other disorders may be mistaken as DID that they may have, about dissociative amnesia and how many will not remember their trauma right away/even for a while, and tell them just because they believe they have DID, or just because they do have DID and don't remember their trauma yet, doesn't give them the right to spread misinformation and block and report without harrassment/bullying/petty rudeness if they don't want to listen. Doing anything else is pointless, you're doing it for your ego, to feel good, to feel like you're doing good, without actually doing good. It's self righteous pretentious bullying, the same shit the alt right do

Kindness builts trust, belief, and community, hatered breaks all those things down. If you want "endos" to trust what you're saying, to believe what your saying, and to leave behind their old harmful community for a new one, be kind to them, or leave them alone. Humans, naturally, are inclined to be wary and hostile towards rude people, so you are setting yourself up for failure by making fun, mocking, and otherwise behaving rudely towards the people who's minds you wish to change

If you truly want to help get rid of the fakers and the endo community, which is causing harm and spreading misinformation, be kind and spread correct information. Ignore the loud minority that is screaming to be heard, let the kids know their bid for attention by appropriating mental disorders isn't going to work by ignoring them, and welcome those who are willing to listen with open arms

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[sophieinwonderland]

1) unless you're a Tibetan Buddhist monk, you are not/do not have a tulpa. Tulpamancy is a specific closed practice that belongs to and isn't shared outside of a very specific ethnic and religious group. You are racist for using that term, and you factually don't know how to create a tulpa because the only way to learn is at a Buddhist temple in Tibet. The ways taught online are fake and are made up by little racist white girls like yourself, because you don't have a real life or culture.

2) there's no scientific evidence that someone can willingly create a dissociative identity. Most scientists recognize what you're doing as a factitious disorder, aka you're lying about having a mental health condition for attention and sympathy. This is extremely ableist against people with real dissociative disorders. So you're racist and ableist.

3) comparing your actions to transgender people coming out is offensive on multiple levels. People don't decide to be trans for fun, they don't do it for attention, it's not a game. You are extremely transphobic for pulling that shit. So that's racist, ableist, and transphobic.

4) You're just an intrusive, disingenuous, mean, pathetic little creep and you need help. Eventually you'll pull this with the wrong trans, mentally ill, Tibetan Buddhist like myself and we'll show you what happens to disgusting racist little foreigners who like to mock our culture because you're too boring to get a real hobby, culture, or personality.

STOP FUCKING MOCKING CULTURES YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BECKY!!!!

Let's go!

1. "Tulpamancy"

"Tulpamancy" was coined in 2009. While sharing an etymology with the Tibetan Buddhist sprul-pa, there is no Tibetan or Buddhist practice that has EVER EXISTED called "tulpamancy".

And even for the sprul-pa, I've never heard a valid source claim the practice can only be done by "monks."

Also not fake. At least according to the psychologists who are investigating the practice, and believe it to be a real psychological phenomenon. But surely you know more than psychiatry professors. 🙄

2. No Evidence You Can Create a Dissociative Identity

I have NEVER seen a scientist claim you can't create a "dissociative identity" or any synonym thereof without a dissociative disorder. The closest any doctor has come to accusing endogenic systems of a factitious disorder was in the McLean Hospital video, which was infamously so shameful that the hospital took it down!

Here is what I have seen...

The ICD-11, created by the World Health Organization, states you can have multiple "distinct personality states" without a dissociative disorder.

Transgender Mental Health, published by the American Psychiatric Association, states that you can be plural without trauma or a disorder.

The creators of the Theory of Structural Dissociation have mentioned that mediumship and hypnosis may result in "self-conscious" "dissociative parts of the personality."

The science is overwhelmingly in favor of endogenic systems to the point where it's not even a contest.

3. Comparisons

While no comparison is exact, endogenic systems are discriminated against whether intentionally created or not. And even as a tulpa, I was only somewhat intentionally created.

The discrimination and pluralphobia systems face is very real. And there are huge overlaps in pluralphobia and transphobia.

Both face misgendering and people intentionally calling them by names they don't identify with. Both experiences are falsely regarded as things that can only be mental illnesses, and have medicalist branches within those communities who engage in sending hate to those who don't identify their experiences as a disorder.

4. "Get help"

Always worth reminding people that this phrase is just another way of calling people crazy, insane, lunatics, etc. It's an inherently ableist term designed to silence people for perceived neurodivergencies.

This is still you, right?

Dear, you don't even have the guts to come off of anon.

You're a coward.

...

You know, at times like these, I think it's important for you to collect yourself. Think of things that bring you joy and comfort. Friends. Family. Your favorite fandoms. Whatever communities you're a part of that you love.

And I want you to know that those are the things we're going to take from you.

Piece by piece, as the world becomes more aware of and accepting of plurality, people like you will be ostracized and cast out of every space you feel safe.

The research will be a huge boon. Every study that comes out makes it that much easier to brand anti-endos as science-deniers. If neurological studies show different brain activity in tulpa systems, it will be confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt for most people. After you lose that last thread of deniability, it won't be long until the hate group label sticks too. After all, what else would you describe people bound together solely by hate for a marginalized community?

I want you to know that I am not merely seeking to turn system spaces against you, but every space, every support network you have. I want you to know that everyone in your life will realize what a terrible person you are and they'll abandon you just like you fear deep down they will.

I want you to know that this is where the tide is going, and that despite all your best efforts, you'll be powerless to stop it.

So please, enjoy your fandoms and your support networks and your time with your loved ones while you still can.

Have the day you deserve.

[the80srewinders]

We were looking at r/fakedisordercringe and r/systemscringe (bad idea) and we found a lot of misinformation. We're going to correct the myths in this post, and this will be a team effort by a few other sysmates. They will be credited at the end of the post.

Trigger warnings for abuse, RAMCOA and denial apply.

This person is trying to invalidate RAMCOA. And they're using an inaccurate study to prove it.

We have, in fact, read this study. It seems largely stereotype driven instead of a true unbiased study because people with other, often traumagenic mental disorders (like cluster b personality disorders) often are open about the trauma they truly experienced if these disorders affect them to have attention seeking behavior. And this study failed to mention that. For the "having told persons other than close confidants" part, its often unsafe for people with DID, much less people who developed it from RAMCOA to be open about it in person to people they know. They feel safer venting or sharing their experience online because theres the optional anonymity you can choose and you're safe from anyone who abused you. Its not attention seeking- its seeking support.

I do agree with the telling of alleged abuse without accompanying shame, guilt or suffering" part to an extent. If you're talking about trauma you claim you remember and have no distress, that's a sign you're either faking or really detached from your memories. But most of the "alleged" abuse these people are talking about they don't remember because thats how childhood trauma and DID work. Many singlets with childhood trauma don't remember majority or any of it because the brain "forgets" different aspects of trauma. And DID is a posttraumatic dissociative disorder entirely based on amnesia of trauma to survive. So if the person is being open about abuse with no distress, it could also be because they don't remember it but know it happened because of clues. Can't feel distress of remembering something you don't remember.

While RAMCOA has strayed away from its original meaning, that's because of misuse (and we blame both the ISSTD and misinformed mental health "professionals" for that along with media presentations.) RAMCOA stands for ritual abuse, mind control and organized abuse. The hyped satanic panic and gory sacrifices are only a small part of the acronym. Mind control doesn't have to be done by a cult. Ever been brainwashed by anyone? Thats a form of mind control. Organized abuse is more common than the satanic, stereotyped ritual abuse. OEA is a simple and inclusive term, and can encompass all forms of RAMCOA but also isn't widely recognized or used yet. And as far as the "HC-DID" term, DID is already highly complex even in people who aren't OEA survivors- DID and OSDD-1 are considered complex dissociative disorders. The term is basically just a fancy way of saying "hey I'm polyfrag because of RAMCOA!" All you need to say is that you're polyfrag because of RAMCOA, you don't need a fancy label for everything.

And yes, introjects are common in neurodivergent systems. Lets go ahead and do autism as an example: being autistic causes distress from hypersensitivity, its a common and documented autistic trait to hyperfixate, people with autism deal with rejection and social anxiety because of how autism works, and people with autism are more likely to be abused. Being autistic is traumatizing itself and this is why neurodivergent systems have plenty of introjects. Especially fictives; people with autism often seek comfort in fiction. And if alters in DID only develop during or after trauma, then this whole theory is solid.

This person is truly uneducated in how abuse survivors brains work especially RAMCOA. These survivors don't label the organization, cult or not, out of fear; when they were programmed, the idea anyone they told - especially if they shared the organizations name- would be in danger or die, or the survivors themselves would be in danger or die was programmed in them. If they're talking about it for awareness, just sharing their lived experiences is all that's needed. Sharing the name of the organization paints a target on the backs of the survivors and their close family and friends. And not every cult is going to present itself in an obvious way especially if they involve RAMCOA. They're going to make it seem like some new religious or pagan movement instead of a traumatizing cult. And yes, they do remain hidden.

This is ableist. If this person is referring to DID/OSDD, that's permanent and even if all alters fuse the ability to split them off again is still there. DID/OSDD are not disorders that can be fixed. Its a permanent rewiring of the brain due to frequent and overwhelming trauma. This involves a missed neurodevelopmental stage (the ego states fusing into one cohesive sense of self before the age of 6-10) and a posttraumatic survival response. Basically, DID/OSDD can't be "fixed" because our brains missed that developmental stage and this is how our brains are permanently. The "you get therapy to fix what went wrong so you can be one whole person as you were meant to be" is ableist and outdated. Its based on the old view of DID/OSDD treatment back when it was called multiple personality disorder: work on the trauma then force the system to fuse into one identity against their will so they'll be "cured."

Don't believe anything you see on r/fakedisordercringe or r/systemscringe. These are the most ableist, hateful subreddits on there and these subreddits set our recovery back when we were in the vulnerable, most important stage of treatment- the diagnostic process and trauma processing. We wouldn't have near the denial or alters that developed from the distress of the host thinking they're faking and much more.

Sysmates who contributed to this post- Finley (host) Everly (gatekeeper) and Marcia (trauma holder)

[interstellarsystem]

The whole McLean Hospital situation has made us very upset and angry, and we weren't even any of the ones included in the videos.

For those who don't know, the McLean Hospital posted a video (that has now been taken down due to backlash presumably) titled "Social Media and the Rise of Self Diagnosing Dissociative Identity Disorder" that claimed certain systems on tiktok as examples of fake systems, without contacting them at all or asking permission to use their videos. The systems in question allegedly didn't have their usernames censored in the video either, to make matters worse. We haven't actually seen the video as we were late to getting to it, so we can't go into more detail than that.

But anyway.

Fakeclaiming systems over the internet when you can't possibly know if someone has DID or not is already bad enough, but now medical professionals are doing it? People who should know that you can't just know personal information like that without speaking to a person about their experiences. People who should know that people's diagnostic history is private information and you can't possibly guess what disorders a person has just by watching a few tiktoks they posted.

So I'm going to take this opportunity to say a few things.

Systems living their lives and being public about being a system does not make them a fake system. Systems being happy despite the difficulties their system may or may not cause does not make them a fake system. Systems being on tiktok does not make them a fake system. Systems advocating for themselves does not make them a fake system.

You can't tell who is or isn't a fake system just by what they post online, unless they outright say they're faking. You can't tell if a system is faking in general unless they say so. System experiences are so varied and different from each other that a lot of the time, no two systems are the same or function similarly. A lot of systems also don't always fit into clean-cut boxes and that does not make them fake.

Fakeclaiming sucks and hurts real systems more than it'd ever hurt the fakers.