#endo discourse

[starlitvases]

"Hey Starlit! What's your opinion on origin syscourse?"

...

"...?"

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"Starlit..?"

...

Oh sorry, I was reading an article on how black and brown felons were scored more harshly on their predicted re-offense rate compared to their white counterparts with similar crimes by an AI tool, thus them receiving harsher sentences by human judges upon seeing the scores. What were we talking about again?

[luxiofuxio]

Oh geez, the endogenic syscourse on here is absolutely wild!

(If I didn’t voice my opinion on here especially as a traumagenic dissociative system who is open about their disorder; I would be withholding my opinion from others solely to prevent controversy and that feels selfish.)

Look, any socially “new” prospect should always be approached with curiosity and not hate, no matter the situation. Munchhausens isn’t any less valid than other disorders, it isn’t a contest.

We have very little understanding of how the brain processes consciousness and learning; that’s just a fact. Yes maybe we got it all wrong, it’s all a matter of scientific improvement but to completely disregard a whole community of people solely based on what we currently know is fucking stupid. What an ego you must have to dispute something that professionals struggle to comprehend.

The truth is; I really dislike endogenic systems because it makes me feel like all my trauma was for nothing, that some smug asshole can just watch Hazbin Hotel and go “I love Angeldust, I want him in my brain” but that’s just not a realistic way to define what does and doesn’t exist.

So in short; they exist.

Now here’s a list of things that are really cool you can learn instead of being lazy:

Tulpamancy

Broca's Aphasia

Therians (Otherkin)

Bilingual Aphasia

Phineas Gage

Dual Consiousness

If there’s anything you want me to add to the list lemme know; my personal favourite weird brain thing is this fucking thing

[manyminded]

I think origin-discourse is stupid.

I’ve known I was plural for 4 years now. In the “real world” (If there is such a thing) I am afraid. I never speak about it outside closed doors. I have never met another system irl. I long, desperately, clawing at the floor with wet eyes begging the gods that someone like me is out there.

This is a large terror. All encompassing. Plurality is my whole life, yet it’s impossible to talk about it in the world. It’s not safe. Never was.

So - what. What? What if the first system I meet is anti-endo? What if we have different opinions on this discourse?

Do you understand how small this is? It’s such a small trait in the grand scheme of things. I do not care if you’re pro- or anti-endo. I care that you’re alive and here. No one cares about your origin! No one gives a shit! You’re stuck in an echo chamber! Stop hating others to feel safety!

WE ARE NOT OPPRESSED BECAUSE OF HOW WE FORMED. WE ARE OPPRESSED BECAUSE WE ARE DIFFERENT, PERIOD.

[randygrim]

Having big thoughts on endo systems

Id also like to point out the "level of entry" you have to have for being a trauma genic system. You have to ahve had "severe truama" but who the fuck is determining that. Someone can have c ptsd and have their trauma spread out and they dont count as being trauamtized enough to b a valid plural?? Thats so fucked up!!! People can have trauma enough that they become plural and yet their not valid because they didnt do enough in the eyes of whoever is evaluating them. There is no set level of trauma, no set kind of trauma, because the brain does not have a rubric it follows when forming a system. It is wholey based on what each individual persons brain decides independently what it deems as trauma enough to need a system.

So then, why the fuck are we saying endo ppl are endo if we dont even have a rule for what trauma can form a system. Someone who is a system should be allowed to form a system whenever and however their brain determines because its not up to their therapists fucking rubric, its up to their subconscious and their own fucking brain. This shit is case by case, and up to the system themself and we should treat it as such

[belowghost]

If you are a sys and need to see someone's personal documentation to prove that they aren't an endo. Something is absolutely wrong with you. There should be 0 reason you need to see PRIVATE documents to prove anything. A literal doctor PROVED that you CAN be a sys without trauma. I'm not saying go LIE and say that you have trauma if you do not have it, but the fact that there's a literal "endo checklist" makes 0 sense to me. THEY DON'T KNOW YOU AND YOU DON'T KNOW THEM EITHER. So WHY is it your business???????? That's THEIR personal information. If they don't want to share the shit with you, that doesn't mean go fake/false claim anything on anybody. Has nobody taught you internet safety??? "If you don't show me, then you clearly don't have any at all" ITS PERSONAL FOR A REASON. NOBODY is required to share a DAMN thing with you. You are STRANGERS on the internet. So why are you so concerned about if they stim from trauma or not? Their trauma is none of your business. If they decide to share it with you, then they will. Do not FORCE it out of them. If you're a traumagenic system faceclaiming, harassing or otherwise acting sysmedicalistic and bigoted towards other systems online, without even knowing for sure what their actual origin is or what their life is even like and only going off of some arbitrary list of things that OTHER TRAUMAGENIC SYSTEMS ARE ALSO CAPABLE OF, then you shouldn't get upset when people attempt to do the same thing with you. You aren't owed an explanation as to why someone is what they say they are, and believing that you are is entitled at best and bigoted at worst.

I'm tired of watching people fight. And as a person with a mainly traumagenic system.. I DONT CARE IF YOURE ENDO OR ALSO TRAUMAGENIC. Why? Because it isn't my place nor my business to know what you have going on. "Well you saying this means you suppor-" no. I just don't give a shit about what you are. Endo or traumagenic, I don't give a damn. I don't know you. Therefore I don't care what you are. I'm not supporting anybody. I simply don't care. I have no opinion on endos. As long as nobody is spreading misinformation or harming/bothering ME.. then I don't care. I never will care. I cannot care. Stop using dogwhistle terms to target a demographic just because you don't like them. Just.. stop caring.

[vinn-iz-chaos]

READ THIS MOOTS/FOLLOWERS/ETC

ENDO INFO: Endo discourse is so confusing. I am not going to pick a side. I have Endo and anti-Endo moots. I don't support Endos nor am I an anti. I respect them but I may disagree with them (?) this is where I stand and will continue to stand! If this offends anyone this is MY opinion! Endos are 50/50 for me. Be respectful and don't make being an Endo ur whole personality (same with systems of all types if it can be helped) and we're fine.

OBJECTUMS (and all variations): I do not understand this, and I believe it means you're attracted to objects. (Correct me if I'm wrong, and I will edit this.) If that is true or whatnot, it makes me Uncomfortable. If that is solely what your blog is about, LET ME KNOW because I do not want to see that talk/content. And please do not mention it to me unless it is to warn me of your blog's content!

This will be updated with the more I know of a subject

Thank you for reading

-Chaos/Vinny

(Questions are welcome here or in my asks! Anon or not!)

[eliana-system]

some of you guys need to remember that dissociative disorders are trauma disorders. and that pathological dissociation is a trauma response. If you claim that DID is not a trauma disorder, it's a misunderstanding of dissociation and of the classification of disorders in the DSM and ICD.

In the same breathe, i need to remind you that DID being a trauma disorder and being a disability doesn't mean that people who identify as "endogenic systems" are all faking or being malicious on purpose.

However it's important to recognise that DID doesn't exist without dissociation and PTSD, and that changing the criteria of DID to accomodate your experience does harm and lead people to mis-selfdiagnose.

And while amnesia can make symptoms recognition complicated, please stop changing the definition of DID to include endogenic systems. you guys should make your own space to figure out their own stuff. And while a lot of you already have, trying to get into the DID community is very harmful.

[deakwithit]

just saw someone say God (the religious figure himself) is a protogenic system im losing my fucking mind dude i cant do this tumblr shit no more

[deer0skullz]

One of the main reasons I don’t really engage with the DID/plural/system/whatever side of Tumblr is because half of it is just endo discourse and it is so fucking exhausting.

So that there’s no confusion, I will say I am on the side of “systems are caused by trauma”, but I also think the existence of endos is more nuanced than “anyone who says they don’t have trauma is faking”. but ultimately I just don’t care what other people do with their lives. As long as I don’t have to hear about it. And I especially don’t want to argue about it with anyone on either side.

But unfortunately despite all of the tags and terms I have filtered, this discourse has still infiltrated the main system related tags. Please just leave me aloneee 🙏

(should be obvious but this post is not an invitation for you to start endo discourse with me. i will just block you idgaf)

[cherubiccluster]

It confuses me when people who are cool with non-disordered and spiritual otherkin are against the concept of non-disordered or spiritual plurality

I don't get how you can accept the concept of

"I am a fox, this identity is not caused by any mental illness"

or

"I am Sailor Moon, this Identity is not caused by any mental illness"

but somehow the concept of "we are multiple people in one body, this is not caused by any mental illness" is too much for you

[starlitvases]

Imagine calling someone a TERF and fakeclaiming their diagnosis/transness and only caring about them cross-tagging after they post about their experiences with endos – experiences they had with real people in real life in real psychiatric wards — not just Internet squabble.

For fucks sake, this is why anti-endos don't like pro-endos. It's because ya'll will hate on somebody for just talking. Ya'll see somebody talking about their personal experiences with non-good-faith endos and take it on as personal attack when they weren't talking about you nor even know of you. Learn to let shit go

[anti-endo-help]

you are not a system without trauma.

your system did not form for any reason other than trauma.

"non-traumagenic" isn't a thing.

"traumaendo" isn't a thing.

trauma survivors shouldn't have to clarify that they're "traumagenic" because people want to roleplay on the internet.

go fuck yourself if you think that "endos" are valid. my trauma isn't a label you can wear.

you can not be a system without trauma.

you can not be a system without trauma.

you can not be a system without trauma.

[ID: STOP! this blog is a strictly anti-endo space! pro-endos and endo neutrals, shoo! shoo shoo!]

[frameacloud]

Plurality, multiplicity, and systems are not synonyms for DID. They are umbrellas that include DID as well as other disordered and non-disordered experiences of being more than one person or personality in one body over time.

[sysmedsaresexist]

Reblog to share a hug 🫂

A long, long time ago, I made a post about how just one hug could make ALL the difference for a child at risk of traumatization, be it a supportive teacher, friend, or family member.

Everyone is so angry lately, and I think we all need a hug.

Regardless of who you are or what you believe, in a show of kindness, reblog to share a hug.

Remember, even if you disagree (yes, even on those topics), we're all just people trying to figure it out. This isn't about whether we're right or wrong, it's about recognizing that we're all just human.

And that we probably needed that extra hug as a kid.

[interstellarsystem]

We're obviously pro-endo and have a lot of headmates who are endogenic, but we do have DID and a lot of trauma worked its way into our formation of our system. Which leaves us in a pretty weird spot in syscourse!

But one of the weirdest things we've noticed is... A lot of the anti endo mindset is completely anti recovery for CDD systems entirely, while claiming to protect them. Often there's the sort of ableist rhetoric that's all about "if you're not suffering, you're not disordered and therefore mocking us or fake".. Which is ridiculous to say the least!

We've seen claims of:

Systems are fake if they're happy they're a system, because if you're happy you're a system then you can't have been traumatised enough to get there.

Systems are fake if they love their headmates in any way, because plurality is a disorder.

Systems are fake if they post "too much" about being happy online, because being plural is a disorder and therefore suffering.

Systems are fake if they never show signs of suffering online.

Systems are fake if they're open about being a system IRL or sometimes at all, because it's a deeply shameful thing.

Systems are fake if they have less amnesia than full-on blackout amnesia, because it's in the DSM.

Systems are fake if they don't dissociate much, because it's in the name of the disorder and the DSM.

And we're here to say that's all plainly incorrect at best. It's also incredibly ableist, anti-recovery and downright harmful to CDD systems who learn they have this disorder, go online for support, and just see discourse and people getting fakeclaimed if they don't show of how much they're suffering online.

Systems can be happy that they're plural. Even if it came from trauma. Why? Well you can be happy that you're any way you are, regardless of how you got there, obviously. But there's also a crucial point here that CDDs and headmates often develop to protect people from trauma. Of course some systems would be glad that they're plural, in a lot of cases it's what literally saved their lives. This goes for the "systems can't love their headmates" thing too--plenty of systems are full of love for their headmates! Not only because they were there for them when it was needed, but because these are--depending on your view--entire people you live with, or parts of yourself. Why are you implying you have to hate that so viscerally to be real?

It's also a pretty well known thing that people tend to post their happier moments online, leading to this perception that they don't suffer. One, because that's how a lot of people work--their personal pages are public after all, and they don't want to be seen as constistently struggling. Two, it's downright dangerous to post in so much detail about your triggers, your trauma and abuse you're currently facing on the internet--even ignoring the fact that you need to be wary of your digital footprint, people can read these posts and use information against you. It's a choice many people make to not hand random people ammo on a silver plate.

Claiming that systems are fake if they're open about being plural in any space is simply ablesim. We've seen this take quite a few times, actually, and it never fails to be some of the most ridiculous ableism we've seen--it comes with a puritan "sweep it under the rug" mindset and the expectation that systems are ashamed of their plurality by default, or that it's simply too dangerous to share. While for a lot of people it is very dangerous to talk about their system so they simply keep that information to themselves, claiming every system should hide it for their entire lives and not expect to be received with kindness, compassion or accommodation is horrible.

As for the amnesia and dissociation... Therapy can help with these! You can actively go to therapy and get strategies to deal with the symptoms that come with a CDD without even going down the final fusion route! You can get it to a point where you have communication with your headmates, where you can switch on command, where you don't dissociate much at all.... You can work toward these goals with the right tools! Why does a system like us who's worked through years of therapy and years of working with ourselves within our own system suddenly get called fake once we start healing?

CDD systems should not have to fit what YOU think a true system should look like. They shouldn't have to suffer on show for you to believe them. They shouldn't have to hide all of themselves away in shame and never have their true selves known. They shouldn't have to pretend they're not recovering to be treated as real. They shouldn't have to feel like they'll be persecuted for simply being happy with who they are as people, or happy with how far they've come.

"Being a system isn't all fun and games" and I'm sure it's not for plenty of people. But do you think it's ok when a CDD system says they love themselves and think their system is fun? Or do you group them in with the endogenics who are "mocking [your] trauma"? Do you really care about people with CDDs at all in that case?

You can say "anti endos aren't ableist because endogenic plurality isn't a disorder" all you like--you're wrong about endogenics not being able to have CDDs by the way, but that's another post--but when you display so much ableist rhetoric toward your fellow CDD systems, I don't know how anyone can see you as "protecting" those with the disorders at all. You can't hide your hatred behind the guise of "protection" when you're harming your own community. You're not protecting us from anyone, you're trying to make us fit into a box full of spikes. It was never about protecting trauma survivors, it was about your personal hatred for others. We shouldn't have to suffer for you.

[system-hottakes]

Hot take: The "If you think you're faking, you're not!" stuff that's constantly pushed in the sys community is extremely harmful and completely false. Faking is not always intentional and I wish more people would listen to former fakers. People need to stop demonizing former fakers. I'm friends with multiple people who used to fake and all but one of them said this rhetoric is part of what stopped them realizing for do long. Imitative DID is a thing and it's horrible to have. It can get you into such a deep hole that's hard to get out of. People talking about being concerned that they could be faking shouldn't automatically be dismissed or told they're not. Yes, denial is a real and common thing in DID but that doesn't mean it's always just denial.

I'm just gonna have to tell you this; if it's unintentional then it's not faking. That is the point. That is what a majority of people mean. You can be mistaken, yes, but that doesn't mean you're faking. A mistake ≠ a harmful action. Faking is something done intentionally, usually maliciously, it cannot be done on accident or because you just thought you had the symptoms when it was actually something completely different. "Former fakers" are either people who were confused and mistook it for something else or people who intentionally faked it and are therefore not welcome among me and my community (unless they were like, really young, I any forgive that because kids are stupid). I understand what you mean, but words mean things. Don't misuse them.