#harry potter and religion

[izzythehutt]

if you were to tie faith into 'black mask', where do you think each character would regard their own faith? I'm asking for the sirius, regulus and the parents, maybe Colette too or someone else if you've thought about it? also, a chapter from the new testament you've reread the most? wishing you a good lenten season!

This has been lurking for a bit but since I got into a whole "religion in the Harry Potter universe" conversation I figured I'd answer it.

So, in my universe as opposed to the canon Harry Potter universe, I'm drawing on my own family—the Blacks are recusant English Catholic landed gentry. I think it honestly fits the whole "there are only 28 acceptable families" inbred pureblood vibe since that's basically the upper class English Catholic families, everybody is related. I feel like in canon HP universe if they are in an actual denomination they'd be Anglican, since they're so "establishment", but then again the Norfolks irl are Catholic so who knows?

As much as I have been accused of Black family apologism, even I cannot in good conscience describe anyone in this family having a healthy relationship with their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but were they religious this is sort of how it would shake down:

Orion is a classic trad with all the attendant dysfunction therein. Extremely legalistic, he's very comforted by a the sense of order, regulations, hierarchical structure and tradition that the Church provides. Probably reads Thomistic theology in his room for fun and would never miss a Holy Day of Obligation. Does not have a good grasp on how to love, show mercy to his children for their failings or give a good example of the relational aspect of their faith. When the shit inevitably hits the fan he's left wondering why following the rules didn't make everything turn out right. I kind of feel like I did give him a moral arc in BM in the sense that he really had to grapple with his own failure and let go of the idea that he can control everything.

Walburga I see as having a pretty childish and shallow understanding of God/religious faith. Faith is more tied to family tradition than personal piety and is practiced out of habit/duty more than out of genuine interest. She is not an imaginative person, she's the kind of person who thinks if they follow the letter of the law and pray they should get exactly what they want. Zero understanding of theology of suffering as a form of sanctification.

Sirius is projecting his daddy issues onto God and struggles to see his own lovability outside of the conditions set by his parents. Will do the opposite of his family just to rebel—I could see him getting into the cozy provincial Anglicanism of the Potters when he moves into them. He's the kind who would start going to church all the time if his parents were secular atheists just to piss them off. His arc is about seeing that God loves him in a perfect way and that helping him forgive his parents for their extremely damaged and wounded way of showing they love him.

Regulus is classic Elder Brother in the Prodigal Son. Has some resentment about doing things right and not getting anything in return. I kind of feel like he's the only one who actually has a prayer life or thinks very deeply about metaphysical questions, but that he also has massive cognitive dissonance with all the religious hypocrisy in the family which makes him question the whole thing.

Bonus: Colette actually has sincere piety and an imaginative soul and would maybe get Sirius rebelling from his family and not really practicing back into going to mass, etc.

[wizgays]

Harry: You should really work on not being such a git

Draco: I don’t work, Potter

Harry: Hard work pays off, you know

Draco: So does having a Malfoy name

Harry: *rolls eyes*

Draco: You’re welcome to take it anytime *smirks*

[theratkingsfool]

Severus knew he was probably the last person who should ever be in charge of a child, especially when said child was the spawn of James potter, but here he was dangling the boy by his wrists trying to appear stern while Harry valiantly tried to keep a grin off his face.

“Now mister potter what have I told you about sneaking off with my broom” his voice was a slow drawl as he raised an eyebrow.

“To let you know so that you can keep an eye on me” his lips were in a pout “but you only ever let me go a a couple inches off the ground!”

Severus let out a long sigh, it was true that he always charmed the broom to never go above a meter from the ground in fear that the idiotic boy would manage to break his neck.

“Once I am certain that you won’t pull any stunts while on the broom then I may be persuaded to extend the charm by an extra meter or two but as it stands then I may just have to lower it” he watches as the boys face turned deathly white then to a bright red.

“That’s not fair! You were busy in your lab and I was bored!” What truely was not fair was the fact that the tears welling up in the boys eyes was working, he truely was truely getting soft.

“Very well I won’t adjust the charm but you will abstain from your daily rides for a week, does that seem more fair?” Once the boy nodded his head Severus gently lowered him to the ground satisfied in the mild punishment he had chosen.

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Thoughts on religion in the wizarding world? I'm guessing there would be sects of existing religions as well as their own. Maybe they think their magic is divinely given and muggles are heathens? Or they're supposed to 'enlighten' or 'watch over' the muggles like some angel complex?

there was definitely people worshipping harry potter. And/or voldy like there's already religious overtones why not make it in universe?

Hi 👋,

Kinda mentioned what I think about religion in the wizarding world here and here. since the Statute of Secrecy was introduced so late (1692) it means most wizarding communities would be practicing some magical variant of the local muggle religion. In the case of Britain �� that would be Christianity.

The fact wizards are buried in Christian muggle graveyards, that Bill and Fleur's wedding is a Christian wedding with a little magical flare, that they celebrate Christmas, and that they have godparents — are all facts that indicate the UK wizarding world is predominantly Christian.

As for more personal fanatical worship we see with Harry and Voldemort, that's something that could just happen in any community, regardless of whether they are religious or not. Ideologies can become fanatical religious worship of the ideology and its leader even without any religion or gods present, so I don't think it has much to do with it. Completely atheist groups and organizations have become fanatical to the point of religious faith in the past, I don't see why wizards would then be different and need religion/god/gods to worship someone/something.

I think there could be some wizards who believe they are better than muggles due to religious reasons, but we don't really see evidence of that in the UK. The beliefs most Death Eaters spew don't seem to have a religious basis but be more similar to eugenics, considering how much they talk about blood and purity (like the Nazis, who were very anti-religion, btw. Like, I don't know how aware you are, but the Nazi party prosecuted Christians in Germany, they believed the state and its leader should be the religion and not god). It's about blood more than about religion in my opinion.

What I do think is interesting is how certain ancient wizards (like Merlin and the founders) are treated somewhat like religious figures, like saints ("Merlin's beard" and such). So, it kinda makes me want to headcanon Merlin and the founders are considered saints in the Magical Church or whatever it's called. That they have a whole additional set of legends and saints built atop the muggle Christian faith (or any other religion wherever those wizards are).

I wonder if there are wizards in the Vatican? If there really is a strain of Christianity that's like "The Church of Magic" or whatever. I mean, Harry describes there is a wizard priest who presides over Dumbledore's funeral and Bill and Fleur's wedding. He needed to get this priesthood somewhere.

“Ladies and gentlemen,” said a slightly singsong voice, and with a slight shock, Harry saw the same small, tufty-haired wizard who had presided at Dumbledore’s funeral, now standing in front of bill and Fleur.

(DH, 127)

The above "small, tufty-haired wizard" is a wizard priest.

It also means there are wizards of any other muggle religion based on their location with some magical flares added (Jewish wizards, Muslim wizards, Hindu wizards, you name it). Probably different wizarding communities (different countries or areas) have slightly different variations of said religious practices, just like we see with irl semi-secluded cultures. Like, the magical church of France is likely a little different from the magical church of England (I wonder if the magical church of England is Anglican or if it's an older institute and therefore catholic and remained so through Herny VIII's reforms, which happened before the Statute of Secrecy. I assume some wizards are catholic and some are protestant in the UK regardless, again depending on where they are from).

[crimsonlovebartylus]

regulus is the type of person that's extremely devoted and obsessed with barty. <3 🤪✌🏻💁🏻‍♀️

like that's his man and he would let everyone know that's his man, if people don't respect it than he would nicely stab someone.

[maxthelorax]

tbh seeing ppl hate on ships/characters is giving me flashbacks to my father yapping about jesus (most the hate ive seen is mad about making james gay or something). this shit is so unnecessary.

[fallstaticexit]

Im absolutely loving your new Nancy Langraab story!! Hell yes for making boring townies interesting via a new backstory!! (I never found Nancy and Geoffrey much to my taste because ts4 just presents them as another boring rich couple who are probably shitty parents. But this backstory adds so much more interest and layers to her!) I can’t wait to see everything fall apart for her… (Angst is my favorite part of storytelling, hahahaha) Also, I just have to say that the fact that Cassie’s friends are playing D&D at a Catholic school in what would have been close to the height of the satanic panic, which very heavily targeted D&D as a horrible anti-Christian thing is very funny to me. (Not saying this to be rude, I genuinely find it amusing.)

Thank you so very much ✨😭 I too love some good ole fashioned angst. It’s my coffee in the morning.

I did do a super quick google search prior to writing the scene and saw a few discussions about D&D and the church ( here and here and here ) because it did dawn on me that the school would have likely had an issues with it during that time period but decided to write it in anyway, as a nod to the late 80s and early 90s and as a stereotypical “geeky” thing that Geoffrey and his friends did together. 😭🙏🏾

[florsial]

Thinking of TikTok sound of "But you Marie-Therese shall be mine." Also, heads up, but I HC that Lily grew up catholic but she isn't really religious as she grows up, still keeps some parts as comfort, seen a bit here.

But it's Lily and Harry. Alone in their hospital room. The prophecy is fresh in her mind as she holds her son. She won't tell anyone, but she knows there is a ticking bomb above her and James' heads despite the looks everyone gives her as she enters the hospital: Hope, making her feel as if everyone is turning to her to die so the war will end by the survival of the Boy-Who-Lived, snatched from her arms at her death and paraded as a savior of the Wizarding World.

Even though she knows they don't know. It's a paranoid feeling festering within her heart that isolates her from everyone.

She holds Harry closer and feels the rosary beads pressed against her palm. It's the few comforts of home that belong to her because wizards and witches don't understand.

"The boy who lived will be the savior of the wizarding world," she whispers, "but you, Harry, shall be mine."

[oakthcrn]

So uh apparently there is a group of witches on the clock app that do something called pop culture deity worship and there are videos of a.starion girlies who are literally worshipping a.starion as a god.

Bruh I’m trying to be tolerant of spiritual beliefs but I am side eying this because I am an elder millennial and I lived through the s.napewives era and it’s a slippery slope y’all.

[izzythehutt]

Do you have any religious wizarding world headcanons? God bless you <3

This is one of the HP world-building things that I struggle with because it doesn't...really make sense. JKR didn't want to deal with it in a significant way. It obviously takes place in a universe, like our own, where British Christianity (or at least the cultural vestiges of it) permeates. The characters celebrate Christian holidays, there's literally a wizard friar. They are clearly not living that neo-pagan life. But there's also no explicit mention of religious worship at the school (no required chapel attendance at Hogwarts, like there would be at a real British boarding school.) Is there even a Church in Hogsmeade? Harry had a christening and has a godfather so he was baptized (Sirius you are failing in your religious obligations to your godson lol)! There's a church graveyard in Godric's Hollow and people are going to services on Christmas Eve. Harry's parents have a quote from Corinthians on their gravestone that he isn't capable of contextualizing correctly. The Dursleys are smug, middle-class unchurched, uninterested in metaphysical questions materialists, which I can dig and is definitely a real "type".

Also witchcraft in HP is a natural ability people are born with as opposed to some unnatural power one gains with the unholy cooperation with demons. So I guess HP is a parallel universe where the biblical strictures against witchcraft wouldn't exist/apply? The fact that McGonagall's backstory involves her dad being a Presbyterian minister cracks me up. Ain't no self-respecting real-world Calvinist bringing his kids up as wizards in our universe.

I do think the Christian worldview/Christian themes are pretty apparent in HP, but doctrinal questions are left un-dealt with. Obviously there's an afterlife and a world beyond this one—and the whole series is ultimately about death, accepting it and conquering it, being willing to die for others, etc.

I do love having the Black family make scriptural references so I apparently can't quite resist them having some at least period appropriate bible knowledge.

My favorite batshit crazy HP theory is that the whole pureblood wizards/muggleborns conflict is a metaphor for recusant Catholics/English protestants.

[myvaginacalledmehomo-blog]

You cannot tell me that Draco Malfoy(prince of potter seduction) didn't wear skirts.

You cannot tell me that Harry(a malfoysexual) didn't wear his boyfriend's underwear.

[moonlightdancer26]

Today (or since 3 days ago technically) I was having a jokey-argument with some blog I had never seen before, and after my second most recent reply they chose to say this:

For context, our exchange was under an ask I answered about which HP characters I think would win in a fist fight (and the anon listed a bunch of characters). For one of them it was Pomfrey vs. Snape, and I thought Snape would win bc he’s obviously much younger and faster. And this person decides to comment that Pomfrey would kick his ass, and I basically responded with dumb comments that weren’t meant to be taken seriously.

After my second comment, that screenshot is what they responded with. And honestly I think that says it all about his antis 💀 they literally have no decent arguments and use “omg ew you like (oh sorry, *worship, like he’s some kind of god) Snape?” as a last resort, and it’s much funnier when you remember that they’re the ones who come onto our posts and start with their shit. My post wasn’t even tagged as pro-snape, I just used general tags for everyone, and this person decided to single him out and insult me for liking him even though my post could’ve just as easily been written by a Snape anti/skeptic. They were unable to come up with a decent witty response and chose that while thinking it was a non-embarrassing reply.

And for your information, one of those dumb comments included me saying that Snape has a black belt in Shodokan Karate, and after that they straight up asked “is this canon or just snape fandom?” I genuinely can’t tell if that was a poor attempt at sarcasm or sincere curiosity, but either way it also shows how little they can recall when it comes to canon.

So, Snape antis, how about you guys just… don’t bring “loving SniVeLLuSssS” into an argument or discussion you know you’ve lost? You’re quite literally just making a fool out of yourself.

[shiftythrifting]

1. A totally nuked school bus for your post-apocalyptic pleasure.

2. The golden rule your creative writing teacher taught you written on a spoopy candy bowl.

3. “No muff to tuff”. Spelling though? Absolutely “to tuff”. Extra points: it’s also a coin bank.

4. Twin flames: Cowboy edition

5. Oliver Twist’s hands after begging for more porridge.

6. Your crumby ex comes back groveling to you and gives you this as a gift.

7. A bunch of Star Trek ornaments and some medieval castle miniatures I absolutely snagged.

8. Fancy candy dispenser, cause why not?

9. The most 80’s jewelry organizer ever.

10. A really generic looking Harry Potter movie (is that even the right font?)

All from the lovely Goodwill of Eldersburg, MD

[svrssnpe]

Unpopular Opinion

Okay so I don't know if this is like a controversial take or not but I feel like religion should be more explored in harry potter fanfiction (by authors who are actually religious or who have done research on the religion) especially PAGANISM!! Like just think about how paganism could be seen in the wizarding world compared to the muggle world. Like I'm talking pagan holidays, pagan religious practices, pagan deities and worship etc. And the exploration of other religions too!! Like I for one love love love Jewish Snape. I just feel like faith is such a beautiful thing and honestly I just feel like it would make sense if it was explored in the magical world in Harry Potter.

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Hi! I really love your metas and i hope you're doing good. There's this about hp that's been bothering me for a while now and i kinda wanted to get your opinion? Sorry if it's been asked already or if it's just really really obvious but it's about sirius being Harry's godfather. Like, how do you think it happened and what do you think it means in the magical world, being a godparent? Do you think they have a ceremony for that or something? I lowkey thought that maybe it's something like Lily's influence with muggleborns being religious still but it seems like the idea of a godparent is so universally understood and accepted in the wizarding world and I'm like... What does that mean for them exactly?

Sorry again if it's stupid and no pressure about answering and stuff, love you, hope you are having a good one :)

Hi, thank you! 🥰

I just posted about religion in the magical world in a former ask. And it's not stupid, overthinking things like this is great and I made it a hobby. I think all of this is fun to explore. And while I lowkey wish there was a magical godparent ritual... the books don't really back it up.

As I wrote, I think wizards in Britain are predominantly Christian (Protestant specifically). As such a godparent would mean what it always does, which is a person involved in the religious development and upbringing of the child.

“Yes . . . ,” said Black. “But I’m also — I don’t know if anyone ever told you — I’m your godfather.” “Yeah, I knew that,” said Harry. “Well . . . your parents appointed me your guardian,” said Black stiffly. “If anything happened to them . . .”

(PoA, 379)

From this quote, it seems in the Wizarding World a godparent actually has legal guardianship over their godchild in the case of something happening to the parents (which isn't always the case in the modern day). In general, considering how the Wizarding World is a bit old in it's views and customs, I'd expect godparents to be more like their historical variant rather than the modern one. As in, much more common and much more involved in the child's life.

I actually read a little bit about godparents in the Church of England and apparently, there was a point in the 15th century when godparents weren't a thing before being reintroduced. But I don't think the wizards took much note of it. From how everyone talks about godparents it seems like their role is an important one in the child's life:

said Fudge. “Potter trusted Black beyond all his other friends. Nothing changed when they left school. Black was best man when James married Lily. Then they named him godfather to Harry. Harry has no idea, of course. You can imagine how the idea would torment him.”

(PoA, 204)

Everyone treats it as meaningful to be chosen as a godparent. It's a choice that is important because the godparent is expected to be very involved in the child's life.

Now, usually, a godparent would bear witness to a child's baptism as their religious role. I assume infant baptism is, therefore, practiced in the Wizarding World (like it is in the Anglican church) in some way or another which implies there is a ceremony of sorts as you mentioned. That being said, Harry didn't bear witness to any baptism of Teddy, though it was in the middle of a war and Harry had other things on his mind. I'd say they probably have a magical spin on baptism that godparents are involved in, but sometimes it'll be skipped, like in the middle of a war. Like their funerals and weddings, it'll likely look like a regular Christian baptism with the addition of a certain magical flare, at least that's my guess.

As for how Sirius became Harry's godfather, Fudge implied it was all James as he and Sirius were so close. I agree with his assessment on this one thing (can't believe I'm agreeing with Fudge of all people). James was probably the one who brought it up and Lily agreed. From her letter to Sirius, it's clear she understands how close he and James are and that she and has grown closer to Sirius too through James.

As the Potters were already in hiding when Harry was born, he probably didn't have the official baptism ceremony. From Lily's letter though, it appears Sirius did visit them on occasion:

We were so sorry you couldn’t come, but the Order’s got to come first, and Harry’s not old enough to know it’s his birthday anyway! James is getting a bit frustrated shut up here, he tries not to show it but I can tell—also Dumbledore’s still got his Invisibility Cloak, so no chance of little excursions. If you could visit, it would cheer him up so much. Wormy was here last weekend.

(DH, 158)

So, Sirius was involved enough in Harry's life Lily felt the need to assure him it's not that bad he missed Harry's first birthday, meaning Sirius really didn't want to miss it.

I'm rambling a bit, but the short of it is that a godparent in the Wizarding World is like a third parental figure for the child and is very involved in their upbringing. Godparents seem quite common in the Wizarding World, I headcanon that most wizard-raised children actually have godparents and Harry just never learned about most of them. Additionally, a godparent is the legal guardian of the child if something happens to the parents. Finally, I think wizards have an infant baptism ceremony which is when the godparents are relevant in the religious context, although we never see such a ceremony taking place due to circumstances.

On that note, hope you're having a good one too!

[crimsonlovebartylus]

imagine that right when barty is going to get his soul suck for pulling off the moody situation, regulus slams the door open and walks in furiously and everyone like: he's alive?

and regulus is like: yes, unless you want all the information on how to defeat voldermort, you're going to let him go.