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schrijverr · 11 months

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A Behind the Scenes of: Corroded Coffin Pt. 2

This time with Eddie as special guest, Jonathan and Eddie give an insight into Corroded Coffin just after they made it big, with a cameo of Steve.

(You don't need to read part 1 to get this, but here is the link)

On AO3.

Ships: Steddie, Jargancy

Warnings: homophobia mention

~~~~~~~~~~~

“Hi, I’m Jonathan Byers, the main photographer and editor of A Collection of Queer Photography. And today Eddie is here with me to continue looking at Corroded Coffin photos from the book,” Jonathan starts the video.

“Hello everyone,” Eddie greets the camera with a big grin, used to being in the position. He waves excitedly, his bracelets jingling happily. He looks very much like a comfortable old rocker with chains around his necks, fingers filled with rings and an old band shirt, his hair cascading down his shoulders. Eddie takes the book and flips it open on the page with the first tab as he exclaims: “Let’s rock ‘n roll.”

“Yes, let’s,” Jonathan agrees, looking fondly amused.

“Should I read the title and year, has that been the vibe?” Eddie asks.

“We have been trying that, yeah,” Jonathan says.

“Alrighty, so the first one is A Promise To Return taken in ‘92,” Eddie says. “It’s when we first went on tour, which was very exciting and terrifying.”

On screen a photo appears of Eddie on the lowest step of the tour bus, leaning out and giving Steve a kiss. They’re clinging to each other, neither of them wanting to let go. The way they’re dressed contrasting each other.

“This is a sweet photo,” Eddie says. “I know it’s cliché and overdone, but it is. I fucking missed Stevie so much when I was away, despite the fact that I was living the dream.”

“I think you can also see this here,” Jonathan says. “I really like that you’re in the bus and Steve’s on the ground, it kind of creates this separation, like you’re stepping in a new world and Steve can’t come with you. He knows he should let you go and say goodbye, but he can’t help but cling to you and keep you close, even if it’s only for a second. Same goes for you.”

Eddie studies the photo again as he nods to himself. “Huh,” he comments. “You always have stories in your photos. We’ve worked together a lot, but I always manage to forget the thought you put into these. It’s amazing, man. Like you can see it and you’d know if it wasn’t there, but it’s subtle.”

“It’s not really that deep,” Jonathan blushes, waving away the compliment.

“Yeah it is,” Eddie says as Argyle adds: “Let the man compliment you, buttercup.”

“Alright, alright,” Jonathan grins as he rolls his eyes. Then he moves on: “Next to it we have Hope of a Wave Back, which doesn’t have the band in it really, but I feel like it fits.”

“It fits,” Eddie agrees.

Hope of a Wave Back appears on screen. It’s of Robin and Steve from the back, both waving at the back of the tour bus. The windows are tinted, so you can’t see what’s going on inside. Steve is looking a little dejected seen in the slope of his shoulders, Robin has a comforting arm around his waist.

“For the record, I was waving back like an idiot, while Gareth and Jeff tried to open the window,” Eddie says. “Those tour bus windows are difficult to open and we didn’t manage to figure it out until the third city.”

Jonathan snorts and you can hear Argyle giggles as well. Eddie pouts, but he does look upset as he defends himself: “Those windows are difficult on purpose, I swear.”

“Sure, dude,” Jonathan grins, before turning back to the photo and saying: “But it did work out to make a pretty sad photo to represent the not knowing that comes with long distance. So, you’re forgiven.”

“How gracious,” Eddie snorts. “But I do like this one. Robin is the absolute best, I can’t imagine her not being there. It’s weird sometimes how much she and Steve overlap. Remember when their appendixes burst on the same day? Like what the fuck.”

“That was a little creepy, yeah,” Jonathan agrees.

“It was weird shit, babe, you can say it,” Argyle adds from behind the camera.

“Really weird shit,” Eddie repeats as he flips the page to the next tab, at the page he lights up and exclaims: “Ahh, when Stevie and Rob and you flew out to come see us in Indy. That was one of the best nights of my life. The difference between Robs and Stevie here is hilarious.”

On screen appears 5:00 AM Flight, which is of an excited Steve coming out of the front door with a suitcase. He seems to be vibrating out of his skin. Next to the door is Robin leaning against the wall, her own bag at her feet. She looks like she is about ten seconds from passing out and wondering why the hell she is doing this to herself.

“Steve was a little bit more excited about the early hour,” Jonathan agrees with a fond amused look.

“Yeah, that’s because he’s insane and sometimes goes running that earlier,” Eddie says, the most sappy, in love look on his face.

“But we’re talking about the band, so let’s talk about this one,” Jonathan points at the next page.

“Stevie is basically part of the band,” Eddie pouts, but dutifully reads: “The Corroded Coffin Cheer Squad taken in ‘92.”

The photo that appears is taken at the concert from behind Lucas, Max, Robin and Steve. They’re in a set off area, a chair has been set down for Max, who can’t stand for that long. All of them are cheering. Behind their silhouettes is Corroded Coffin. Eddie is screaming at the crowd, looking alive. Chris and Jeff are sharing a microphone and Gareth is throwing water over himself, having lost his shirt.

“I love taking photos at concert from the audience’s perspective,” Jonathan comments. “It shows a band at their best in a sense and this one is special, because the audience are people that you know personally, which adds a layer. Bands performing often isn’t their private selves, but it’s more them than at an interview or some shoot.”

“Yeah,” Eddie agrees. “For me, my musics are filled with personal stuff, they mean a lot to me and the boys and I always made sure our shows were something we could be proud of. You lay a lot more bear at a show than people realize. It’s nice to get to share that.”

His voice gets a little bit softer and he adds: “I’m glad Steve got to come to a few of our big shows and see it. That I got to share it with him. My baby is so brave, you know. He’s been through so much, we always knew he couldn’t travel with us, but when he could come and see, those shows were the best.”

“I think you can see your delight in this one,” Jonathan points. “Spotted Steve in the Crowd, there honestly isn’t another way to describe your expression.”

Eddie cackles at that, head thrown back as a new image appears of Eddie on the center of the stage. He is wearing leather pants with chains hanging off it and his cuff belt. He doesn’t have a shirt on, but he is wearing a cut off army jacket. He has gotten more tattoos over the years, which cover some of his scars. His fingers are around his guitar as he plays, however he isn’t singing, instead grinning from ear to ear, his eyes sparkling from under his sweaty hair.

“What can I say, I missed him,” Eddie shrugs, twinkle in his eyes. “And I was going to make him my fiance. Let me be gay in peace.”

“I have been witness to you being gay for years,” Jonathan rolls his eyes. “I’ve let you be horny for your man in peace for many years. Know how I suffered.”

“You willingly photographed us being horny on multiple occasions,” Eddie shoots back.

Jonathan flushes and ducks into himself as he pouts and mumbles something about them being aesthetically pretty and photogenic.

“And he had a brief crush on you,” Argyle adds without shame from behind the camera.

“Argyle!” Jonathan exclaims, not that upset, but more surprised.

Eddie has a delighted grin on his face as he prods Jonathan and asks: “Really? Did you? When? How long? Oh my god, this is hilarious. Why didn’t you say?”

“Because it was fucking embarrassing and it only lasted about a month or two before it blew over,” Jonathan wails, a little embarrassed. “Just drop it.”

“Okay, okay, but I am going to tell Stevie when he gets here,” Eddie gives in.

“Of course you do,” Jonathan rolls his eyes, but doesn’t sound that upset as he snatches the book out of Eddie’s hands and flips to the next page.

On screen a photo series appears of behind stage at the concert, telling a story from left to right. First they’re all big to cover everything, but they’re shrunken down on screen so that you can still see Jonathan and Eddie.

The most left photograph is of Eddie, taken from behind Steve, so his polo wearing back is in it as well. Eddie is yelling, practically glowing with happiness, having just spotted Steve. He is already handing his guitar to a stage hand in favor of paying attention to Steve.

In the one next to it Eddie is running towards Steve, by the looks of it he is sprinting. Steve is doing much the same. It is very dramatic, but also cute.

The set continues with a photograph of Eddie flying through the air as if he is literally launching himself at Steve. Though it seems like Steve doesn’t mind, he has stopped running to widen his stance and brace himself.

It ends with an image of both of them sprawled on the ground, Eddie on top of Steve. Eddie has a hand on the back of Steve’s head to protect him from smacking is against the floor. His knees are on either side of Steve, who has wrapped both his arms around Eddie’s waist. They’re making out heavily. In the background you can see Jeff rolling his eyes.

“This is Reunion a photo series taken right after the show,” Jonathan says.

“I was so happy to see him,” Eddie coos, taking the book back from Jonathan to smile at the photos, then he suddenly asks: “Is this why people think we’re dramatic?”

“What?” Jonathan choke-laughs.

“People have been calling us dramatic online, which is pretty fair all things considered, but I feel like this is mild for us, but it has been cited to me many times in my replies,” Eddie explains.

“Eddie,” Jonathan says in a tone that screams, I love you, but… “You and Steve are two of the most dramatic people I know. You literally tackled him.”

“He knew I was coming,” Eddie defends himself.

“That makes it worse,” Jonathan informs him with a sympathetic look.

Eddie looks over to Argyle, who explains: “That means you did this often enough he saw it coming, making it doubly dramatic, bro.”

“But it’s not the most dramatic thing, we do worse,” Eddie says.

“Not helping yourself,” Jonathan says.

“Just accept it, man,” Argyle agrees.

“Fine, but if this is dramatic, I’m scared for every interview I’ve done where I told people I do worse,” Eddie tells them.

“Don’t be, it gives you character,” Jonathan assures him, before turning back to the photo series and saying: “What I really love is how excited you two look and your hand on the back of Steve’s head. It’s again a small detail, but even caught up in the moment, you remember to think about stuff like that. Those things really speak to me.”

Eddie puffs up proudly in a subconscious manner as he says: “Of course, I’m not going to let him get hurt in a way that he doesn’t want to.”

“We know, Eddie,” Jonathan tells him, patting his shoulder. “I also like Jeff being done with your shit, that says a lot about the band as a whole I think.”

“He looks fond,” Eddie argues.

“Sure he does,” Jonathan replies, obviously not agreeing with Eddie, but not saying it as he flips the page, telling the audience: “The series technically continues on the next page, but it deserved its own special place.”

“Totally agree,” Eddie grins, eyes lovingly trailing over the image.

In the photo, Eddie is still sweaty from the show and Steve’s hair is messed up from the make out session on the floor they just had. Steve has scrambled upright after the rather dramatic greeting, however Eddie is still on the floor, though now on one knee with a box in his hand. In the box a ring glitters. Nothing fancy, but very classy. Something you’d get for your high school sweetheart. Eddie is grinning softly and hopefully, while Steve has both hands clasped over his mouth, eyes watering, as if he can’t believe this is really happening.

“He Said Yes is the title,” Jonathan says, when it starts to look like Eddie isn’t going to say anything.

After a moment, Eddie speaks up in a chocked up voice: “I sometimes still can’t believe it you know. He’s just the best person on fucking earth and he agreed to spend the rest of his life together with me. We have a house. Kids. Family. We’re actually married. Like it’s so crazy and I love him so much.”

“You need a tissue, brocacho?” Argyle asks from behind the camera, Jonathan awkwardly patting Eddie on the back.

There is a cut to Eddie dabbing away tears with a tissue as he grins to the camera and says: “Sorry about that people, I just love my husband very much. Bagging him is my greatest accomplishment in life, honestly.”

“Of course it is,” Jonathan snorts, before saying: “You did propose in the most Eddie-like way possible.”

“Steve liked my proposal,” Eddie sniffs. “He says it was romantic.”

“Didn’t you plan on proposing under the stars after a shower?” Argyle asks.

“It was a heat of the moment thing,” Eddie shrugs. “He just looked to beautiful and I couldn’t resist, alright. Look at him here. In his stupid little polo and fluffy hair, I’m weak for him. Weak, I tell you.”

“It was pretty romantic,” Jonathan gives in. “I like how hopeful you look. Like despite the fact there was no way Steve was going to say no, you still were worried about it. The second Steve needed to get himself together nearly killed you, but you’re not so nervous that you’re unable to stop grinning.”

“God, I nearly shit myself,” Eddie laughs. “I was trailer trash and Steve seemed untouchable for so many years, but he’s also Stevie, my baby, the guy I cleaned the trailer with and who drove me to gigs when my van broke down, who braided my hair because he was bored and turns into a backpack whenever he can.”

“Yeah, you needn’t have worried for a second,” Jonathan says as he flips the page and asks: “You are probably dying to talk about this one, right?”

“Our wedding!” Eddie exclaims. “Let’s wait until Steve and Nancy come back from their shopping trip, Stevie loves talking about our wedding.”

“You sure he would want to?” Jonathan asks.

“Like 99% and if he doesn’t we can record it anyways and I’ll tell you all about it in as much detail as you’d like,” Eddie promises with a big grin.

“Alright,” Jonathan agrees easily and flips further. He says: “Page 152 and 153 are the last pages I want to talk about, since other Corroded Coffin photos aren’t taken by me. Maybe we’ll figure something else out if people are really curious. But these are when I took behind the scenes photos for one of their albums, but the ones that didn’t make the cut.”

“First one is Hard at Work taken in ‘93,” Eddie says.

On screen a photo appears of Gareth lounging on the studio couch, tapping his drumsticks together. Eddie is sitting on the back of the couch, pencil in his mouth and notebook in his lap. His hair is up in a bun and he is dressed in a tank top and ripped jeans, no shoes.

“I want to defend us and say that lounging around is a big part of our writing process,” Eddie says. “We wrote some good lyrics on that couch. But most of it was written late at night when I couldn’t sleep or when we’re hanging out outside the studio.”

“It was a little too casual for what the label wanted,” Jonathan agrees. “But admittedly a more accurate representation of the writing process. Page 152 is entirely the writing process.”

“Next one is Jotting Down Notes,” Eddie moves onto the next photo. It is of Jeff with his guitar in his lap. He is leaning over it to write down some notes. He’s dressed in a Corroded Coffin shirt. His hair is longer now and twisted into locks.

“You all were so excited about having merch,” Jonathan recalls fondly.

“Yeah, we were,” Eddie agrees, a little nostalgic. “Jeff once broke his guitar when writing down notes, because he’s a fucking idiot. I love him so much.”

“Didn’t he nearly break his guitar here too?” Jonathan asks.

“Probably,” Eddie laughs. “Jeff tries to be very professional and like he’s above all of our bullshit, but that’s his celebrity persona, don’t let him fool you. He’s as much a dork and an idiot as the rest of us. He just hides it better.”

Jonathan laughs a little at that, before Eddie moves on, reading: “Getting Inspiration.”

The photo is of Chris and Eddie smoking a joint in the alley behind the studio. They’re hunched over, as if trying to hide what they’re doing, but they’re not very successful at it.

Eddie looks into the camera. “To all the young fans and old fans, who have asked me what some of our lyrics mean. If we have avoided answering for this long, it’s probably because they don’t, we were just high when we wrote them. I have explained in detail when a song was a metaphor for me sucking my husband’s dick, I’m not going to shy away from any other topics. Please don’t do this me.”

Both Argyle and Jonathan have started cackling throughout Eddie’s little spiel. Argyle giggles: “I liked your nonsense songs, they speak to me.”

“Thank you, Argyle,” Eddie grins.

Jonathan now addresses the audience: “This one wasn’t allowed to be published for obvious reasons. Somehow despite all the hard drug scandals, they didn’t want this picture out there.”

“Very rude honestly,” Eddie laughs, before moving onto the next one: “This is on the next page the first one, named Booth Buddies.”

It is is of the entire band around a microphone, headphones on their heads. They’re doing the backup vocals. It’s a small booth and they all have their arms wrapped around each other, so they can’t fall over.

“That was fun,” Eddie recalls with a big grin. “We nearly fell like twenty times, but we got to screaming backing vocals. It turned out great.”

“Yeah, I really like this photo. You all look so happy and carefree,” Jonathan says with a smile, before that falls away. “The label didn’t want to use this one, because they thought it was too intimate and would fan unwanted rumors.”

“AKA, they thought it looked gay,” Eddie frowns. “Which it wasn’t. Me and Gar are, the photo isn’t. It’s practically a crime to like your friends, honestly. I appreciated the opportunities they gave us, but man was I glad to be rid of them.”

“We all were,” Jonathan says. “Like this one of Robs, they wanted to use it to create media buzz, but Robin didn’t want it.”

“That was the worst,” Eddie says.

On screen a photo appears taken from the other side of the glass from the recording booth. Eddie is leaning over all the buttons, grinning wildly. Through the glass you can see Robin, trumpet to her lips.

“I never figured out why they didn’t end up using it anyway,” Jonathan says.

“Uhm, me- me, Stevie and Chris might have broken in after you told us and destroyed the copy they had of it,” Eddie confesses.

Jonathan’s eyes go wide as he exclaims: “You what!” before the video cuts.

When they get back, it seems like nothing has happened at all. Jonathan just says: “This one we named Chirping Bird, because Robin is also a bird and she’s making music with a brass instrument, so using air.”

“A lot of fans thought she was my wife, because we credited Robin Munson on the CD,” Eddie laughs. “She extorted so many free shit out of me under the guise of me having to be a good husband, which is so rude, since she never does that with Steve and he was her husband.”

“Steve didn’t need to be extorted,” Jonathan points out.

“True,” Eddie snorts.

“I also like that you’re in the directing booth here. You look so thrilled and pleased with it all. I think it shows your friendship as well as your dedication to music,” Jonathan says.

“It does,” Eddie agrees. “I like it too. We didn’t really keep with the order of the page, which one do we do next.”

“Gareth on the Drums?” Jonathan suggest and Eddie nods.

The photo is of Gareth behind his drums, surrounded by microphones as he goes nuts on his drum set. It is clearly not the first take, because his gray shirt is soaked in sweat, but he’s grinning despite the exertion.

“Gar hated that drum solo,” Eddie says. “He wrote it himself, but doing it was harder than expected. It took him so long to get it right. He collapsed on the ground when he finally got it.”

“He did,” Jonathan says. “The one used instead was when he took his shirt off a little later. Fan service and all that, but I liked the one with the shirt too.”

“It’s a good photo, he looks very hot,” Eddie winks, very happy with his pun, before clapping his hands and excitedly saying: “Let’s talk about my baby now.”

“Yeah, yeah, the other one is Surprise Visit,” Jonathan says. “Steve came with Robin to record her stuff, which was very well received.”

“It was great,” Eddie grins happily.

Surprise Visit is of the same couch in the studio. The entire band is sitting around it, but the focus is on Steve, who is sitting on Eddie’s lap, Eddie’s tattooed arms around him. Both of them are grinning, as the others look fondly amused.

Before either one can say anything there is some noise in the background. Jonathan smiles at whatever is happening, while Eddie exclaims: “Sweetheart, baby, come here,” as he makes grabby hands. “We were just talking about you.”

Steve’s voice is muffled as he replies: “Oh you’re doing that YouTube thingy right. Only saying good things about me, I hope.”

“Of course,” Eddie promises, tugging Steve into frame and onto his lap so he can plant multiple kisses right on his face.

At the gesture Steve giggles, kisses back, before he peers into the book and smiles: “Ahw, I loved coming to see you work.”

“Yeah?” Eddie asks, a little breathless. It’s unclear if it’s awe or from the kisses.

“Yeah,” Steve smiles. “You’re very hot when you’re concentrated and passionate and you know I love it when you sing.”

“Flatter me more,” Eddie laughs. “Wanna join us?”

“I can?” Steve asks.

“Jup,” Eddie tells him, punctuating the sentence with a kiss on Steve’s nose. “We wanted to talk about our wedding day after, care for an opportunity to do so without Jonathan being able to tell you to shut up?”

“Hell yeah, you know I do,” Steve grins.

It cuts and now Steve is sitting next to Eddie, close enough so they can share his mic. Jonathan says: “What I like about this photo is how effortlessly Steve is taken into the crowd. More casually dressed, their styles still aren’t compatible, but not as glaringly obvious. And Steve is quite literally embraced as he is. I think that’s neat.”

“On his little throne,” Eddie grins, kissing Steve’s cheek.

“Your thighs are comfortable and that couch was gross,” Steve comments.

“It was a pretty gross couch,” Eddie says, pulling a face.

“Totally,” Jonathan agrees as well, before flipping ahead to the next tab. “This is Corroded Coffin at the Writing Table in 1994.”

The photo is of Corroded Coffin. They’re working on lyrics, sitting around the table at the Munson apartment. Gareth is chewing on his pen, while Eddie and Jeff both have a lollipop in their mouths. A nicotine patch is visible on Eddie’s arm and Gareth’s neck.

“Oef, when I quit smoking,” Eddie says, recognizing it. “That was a rough time. Jeff and Gareth tried too, but it’s just so hard. I don’t blame them for starting again. Though Jeff is trying to quit again, so that’s good.”

“You were all very grumpy,” Steve recalls fondly, pinching Eddie’s side. “But I am glad you quit.”

“I’m glad you were there with me to get me through,” Eddie replies looking sappily into Steve’s eyes, as next to them Jonathan looks to where Argyle must be, looking the every bit the part of third wheel.

Jonathan clears his throat and only Steve has the decency to look apologetic, while Eddie goes on as if nothing is wrong and says; “We were all quite miserable. The album we made was quite a drag, honestly. Weirdly very nice to listen to when you’re high, but like, bad mood high.”

“You’re ridiculous,” Steve giggles.

“But you love me?” Eddie asks.

“Of course,” Steve tells him.

“Love you too.”

Jonathan doesn’t even bother with a smooth transition, instead he clears his throat and says: “I like that it’s less forced. You guys have become good at making any place homey, but it’s more casual, everyone is less aware of the fact that there’s a camera.”

“It’s always nicer when we get to come together in our own home,” Eddie agrees. “I think we wrote better songs then too.”

“I also liked it when you stayed home to write,” Steve says, hooking his chin over Eddie’s shoulder as Eddie’s hand naturally drifts up to pet the top of his head.

Jonathan moves onto the last tab in the book, flipping the page as he says: “This is a bit of a long title, but it fits. It’s called Europe Tour (If They Manage to Drag the Front Man There).”

The photo that appears on screen is of Eddie being pulled away by Gareth, hand reaching for Steve, who is reaching back, while Robin holds his other hand and Dustin has a hand on Steve’s shoulder. It kind of looks like a dramatic Baroque painting. The ones not pulling Eddie or holding Steve are waving.

“One plus side of your dramatics is that it makes for great pictures,” Jonathan says.

“We’re not that dramatic,” Steve frowns.

“Council has decided otherwise. Sorry, baby,” Eddie informs him.

“Homophobia,” Steve pouts, before saying: “But I do like this photo. I was very excited for you, but fuck did I not want you to go.”

“I didn’t want to go either,” Eddie tells him, leaning his head against Steve. “Jonny boy here captured that very well.”

“It was kind of hard to miss,” Jonathan snorts. “But it is a very good visual. I love photos that tell a story and this one sure does tell a story.”

“It does, I had a bruise on my shoulder from where Gar pulled on me,” Eddie says.

“Robs left nail indents on my hand,” Steve laughs.

“God, why are you two like this,” Jonathan asks no one in particular as he face palms.

“Any more or was this all?” Eddie asks, checking the side of the book for more tabs.

“That was it for now, since there’s only the Europe tour from the Corroded Coffin career and I didn’t go there,” Jonathan explains. “I was planning on doing this solo and I can’t really talk about where I wasn’t at.”

“And this video is already pretty long,” Argyle tells them from behind the camera.

“Then we’re stopping this one and doing our wedding next,” Eddie grins excitedly as Steve lets out a small cheer, the two of them high fiving.

Next to them, Jonathan looks a little like he’s regretting his life choices as he signs off: “That is a behind the scene of the photos about Corroded Coffin. Thank you so much for being here Eddie and Steve.”

“Was a pleasure,” Eddie grins. Then waves at the camera, Steve following his example, as Eddie says: “Bye everybody! Don’t forget to give Jon here some love and shit, he’s great.”

“Thanks,” Jonathan says, before also saying goodbye.

A/N:

I will be doing the steddie wedding after, but it might take some time, please be patient :D

#rr writing #stranger things #steve harrington #eddie munson #steddie #eddie lives au #st post season 4 #robin buckley #jonathan byers #corroded coffin #gareth stranger things #jeff stranger things #argyle stranger things #famous eddie munson #platonic stobin #a collection of queer photography by jonathan byers #a behind the scenes by jonathan byers

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something-about-sunflowers · 1 year

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I'm gonna block the op before I post this cause I don't wanna start any drama but, that one person in the steddyhands/adjacent tags with their 'List of things I promised not to do in OFMD fic/What I look for/want when reading/writing OFMD fic' post. Don't. . . Do that. You can preface with 'you can write your fic how you want' all you like but if you add a caveat of 'be aware of "the trends"' it comes across as condescending, demanding, and judgemental. Leave alone that you are not the arbiter of all things allowed in fandom/fic. Nobody needs your permission to 'do as they will' so to speak.

Anyway I'm gonna go through and pick out their 'issues' that annoyed me the most and talk about why. Read-more cause I know I tend to forget to do that when I'm writing essays/meta/etc and, seeing as they did too and it was a beast of a post I don't want to be that annoying on yall's dash.

'Is it funny'

Not everything needs to fit to your standards and not everyone wants to write a comedy.

'The Act of Grace needs consequences'

The AoG did not necessitate becoming pirate hunters. I think this may come from some confusion around Benjamin Hornigold? (If its not that then I genuinely have no idea where this idea came from tbh?) All it necessitated was becoming a privateer, essentially a legal pirate, one who only attacks enemies of the Crown. Which, yes, can include pirates, but moreso meant, like, the Spanish (navy/merchants/etc, remember: they're at war).

Hornigold is a bit of a weird one in that he was already kind of doing that when he was a regular pirate? He, historically, avoided attacking English ships, and eventually turned pirate hunter later on.

Its completely reasonable to assume that, in a time when the Crown was coming down hard on piracy, there would be some who would sign the Act when caught and then renege as soon as. You could obviously only use this tactic once but its a good 'get out of jail "free"' card if you're in a bind. That doesn't reflect on Blackbeard (or Stede/Izzy), especially not when he's pretty immediately back on the seas and obviously not working for the Crown.

That isn't to say there won't be consequences in the form of the Crown being pissed at losing Blackbeard though, I've got my fingers crossed for a third Badminton after all, but in my opinion its doubtful there'll be any consequences from the greater pirating community.

'No co-dependency (. . .) written about positively'

Fan fic is not your therapist. We already understand that these characters are flawed and that their relationships are unhealthy, even at the best of times. People shouldn't need to write their characters like they're trying to get an A in therapy, nor should they have to add disclaimers in the text (or author's notes) that 'this is unhealthy and bad'. If you can't separate the idea of these fictional characters and their relationships from reality enough to understand that, because the author doesn't hold your hand to tell you 'this is not a good thing' then you shouldn't be engaging with the fic nor the source material, to be entirely honest.

'[Izzy] doesn't need to blush and "make out like teenagers" for every story'

The back button is free. Not everyone wants an emotional deep dive into the psyche of these characters, some people just want to watch these sad old men make out and be horny.

'The [Revenge] crew should be careful about being visibly queer when they're at port'

Not everyone wants to deal with the idea of systemic/societal homophobia in their fic. Fan fiction can be a way to explore these ideas in a safe and cathartic way but it doesn't have to be and some people are more comfortable by excluding the concept altogether. I live in the damn bible-belt, I worry about it enough in my real life, I shouldn't have to read it in fic if I don't want to and I shouldn't be made to write it for the sake of 'realism' either. Let people have their escapism if they so choose.

'Use protection and lube-'

Fan fic is not sex-ed. Nobody has to worry about sti/std/pregnancy if they don't want to. Plus, its not exactly super realistic for them to have either just immediately on hand? Obviously you don't have to deal with realism if you don't want to and if you prefer for your own sake they have access to them then by all means but, while they existed, condoms weren't exactly a common item in the 1700s. Mostly available to the middle and upper classes and very likely extremely difficult to find at sea. They're pirates. They're not exactly known for being 'safe' in any sense of the word. Look up why the real Blackbeard blockaded Charleston sometime. Syphilis isn't fun. But this is fic and Syphilis doesn't have to be an issue if you don't want it to be!

And while I'm fond of the 'convenient vial of oil' its not as if the lube-less/spit-as-lube buggery is going to actually hurt anyone. Like I said: fan fic is not sex-ed.

'-Make sure nobody can hear them'

Lucius was fully sucking Pete's dick in the galley with Wee John sleeping right there. Maybe the only members of the crew with an ounce of shame are Jim, Olu, and Izzy; at the same time though? Nobody is gonna care. Lucius may tease (Izzy at least, Jim might actually kill him) but that's literally the worst that could happen. Ships being not soundproof is kind of the reason why they can't ‘make sure nobody can hear them’ and why they might not bother beyond 'not being directly in front of them' and even then, as with Lucius and Pete (and Fang), they don't really care one way or the other.

'F/F [is] often (. . .) kissing and fucking'

Yeah. This is the Horny Pirate show. People are gonna be horny about the pirates, whether they're old men or old women. People are allowed to be just horny about it. If you want more plot driven F/F then that's a you problem and you can be the change you want to see in the world. And don't come to me with any 'oh its fetishistic' BS either, it doesn't fucking matter so long as they're not reducing real human beings to their sex lives, people can do whatever the fuck they want with fictional characters.

'Izzy needs to learn to be his own person if he wants to heal'

I agree with this point. I still find it annoying because nobody has to go over all of that. Nobody has to even let Izzy heal. Some people just like angst! Not everything has to be hurt/comfort or a happy ending!

'If Izzy falls for Stede or realizes his feelings for Ed, wait on the confession'

Some people just want to get to 'the good part'. Not everybody is looking to write a character study and sometimes you just want to get to the romance.

'They're big adult men, casually lifting/carrying each other is unrealistic'

Doesn't have to be realistic, but, they're also sailors. They're used to manual work/physical labor. Sure they're all older but your muscles don't just immediately atrophy just because you're old, not if you're using them. But again, it doesn't have to be realistic! Its fan fic! Of a fairly unrealistic show at that! Selective (or no) realism is perfectly fine!

'Calico Jack's addictions'

Alcoholism is a really heavy subject and nobody should have to touch on it if they don't want to. People should be able to write about Jack without worrying about navigating such a heavy topic if they so choose.

'tag your dubious consent (. . .) correctly'

This is the one point I will fully agree with and endorse. The fandom as a whole needs to get better at identifying (and differentiating, they're mutually exclusive terms and have different meanings) non-con/dub-con in general. Only caveat here is you specified 'regarding Calico Jack/Izzy Hands' when its not a ship specific issue but a fandom wide one.

There's probably points I disagreed with that I skipped over and hell, there's points that I do agree with that I skipped over, but ultimately my issue is this: Unless there is actual harm being done, this type of post is unnecessary. There is not and should not be one 'correct' way to write fic. I understand that you gave a caveat of 'you don't have to do it this way' but if you're going to outline all the things you think people are doing 'wrong' then go on to say 'but that's just my opinion' it doesn't change the fact that its a shitty thing to do unasked regardless. 'Most of these don't immediately make a story bad' is incredibly rude to say.

There is nothing inherently wrong with 'fandom wide habits' if they're not actually causing harm. People infantilizing Ed (and the rest of the BIPOC cast/characters, if we're being entirely honest) is a fandom wide habit that can actually cause harm. People moralizing over Izzy is a fandom wide habit that causes harm. People not properly tagging their fic can cause harm. People writing fan fic that isn't to your exact tastes, regardless of how much of it there is, is not causing harm.

Nobody needs or wants someone playacting at being CinemaSins calling them out for using 'overused' tropes. If you're doing it for yourself that's fine but keep it to yourself and don't try and hold the entire rest of the fandom to your standards. Its fucking rude.

#the dork is being a dork #izzy hands #stede bonnet #edward teach #i legit just ignored this post the first time i saw it #scrolling thru the izzy tag thinking 'hm thats kind of annoying' but moving on #but i came across it a second time and like #idk realized why it was annoying me?#its like #almost entitled?#like everybody has things they don't like about how the fandom at large treats something or other #but its incredibly entitled to act as if your opinion is the only correct one and to 'warn' people away from using tropes you don't like #its on the same level as un-asked for criticism imo #if you don't like how/what some people write that's fine #but don't tag the whole damn fandom to complain about it #i have a lot of hate in my heart for how some people who don't like izzy write izzy but unless they're actively shoving it in my face?#i'm gonna leave it alone/complain in private

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volkswagonblues · 4 years

Text

a lil guide to the Fire Nation for the ATLA fic writers out there

(aka. a no means exhaustive primer on east asia by an asian person)

This is a guide for fic writers want to write a canon-era story set in the Fire Nation, or featuring Fire Nation characters. A quick little primer on the tiny details of everyday life that you might not think about, but certainly stuff that would make me, an asian person, wince if I were to encounter it. BRUSHES, not quills. CHOPSTICKS, not forks.

(note #1: this was partly inspired by a chat with @elilim)

(note: #2: I originally intended it for zukka fic writers before realizing that other writers might find it useful. so apologies for a slight Zuko-bias for that reason)

(note #3: this is all stuff i was thinking about when writing firebender’s guide, in case anyone was wondering)

1. CLOTHING

Okay, I think the most straightforward way to describe what everyone’s wearing most of the time is “tunic”. They’re all just...tunics of different colours and varieties. Later when Zuko’s the Fire Lord he wears robes. The show provides a better visual guide than I could, here are a few notes to keep in mind:

a) Japanese people wear their collars LEFT crossed over RIGHT

I don’t think this would come up in writing as much as it would in art, but it’s considered bad luck to do it the wrong way because that’s only for dead people. Let my boy Zuko demonstrate:

b) There are no buttons

This is picky, but Wikipedia says “Functional buttons with buttonholes for fastening or closing clothes appeared first in Germany in the 13th century.[6] They soon became widespread with the rise of snug-fitting garments in 13th- and 14th-century Europe.” I kinda believe it. If you look closely, characters’ clothes are always tied together or wrapped in some way with a belt. If there are fasteners, they’re braided frog closures that go into a little loop, like the qipao-style dresses women wear in Ba Sing Se, or Zuko’s casual prince’s clothes in the topmost image. Anyways, I don’t think Zuko or Azula or the Gaang would technically button or unbutton anything when they’re changing clothes. Clothing is designed to be tied, not buttoned.

[so much more under cut]

c) This isn’t a real rule, but there’s something called koromogae, or the seasonal changing of clothing in Japan.

This is something I learned when I was writing firebender’s guide, and I just liked the fun detail about there being a strict calendar for when to wear something. I liked the idea of someone like Zuko, who actually spent most of his formative years outside of the Fire Nation, coming home and just suffering mutely through the summer heat because upper class etiquette says no changing into cooler clothes until August 15.

From My Asakusa:

And this website:

Generally, people change from thick, heavy, dark-coloured clothes for winter to thin, lighter, bright-coloured clothes for spring and summer. In traditional Japanese culture, particularly in formal settings such as tea ceremony, it is important to acknowledge the changes of seasons—in such circumstances, not only the patterns and colours of the kimono that are worn but also the utensils and furniture that are used are required to change. By changing their clothing, people notice and appreciate the change of seasons. [Japan Foundation]

Here are some visual guides from the official creators for clothes: (notice how it’s pretty much always left over right)

2.FOOD AND EATING

a) Traditional cuisine

It seems like the most common foods in canon are Fire Flakes and meat, to the point where poor Aang had to eat lettuce out of the garbage at some point.

HOWEVER, the Fire Nation seems to basically a big subtropical archipelago, so I would guess that seafood and rice are common. If you want to write about characters eating, a. quick google for “traditional japanese cuisine” would help you come up with a menu really quickly.

Wikipedia says:

The traditional cuisine of Japan, washoku (和食), lit. "Japanese eating" (or kappō (ja:割烹)), is based on rice with miso soup and other dishes; there is an emphasis on seasonal ingredients. Side dishes often consist of fish, pickled vegetables, and vegetables cooked in broth. Seafood is common, often grilled, but also served raw as sashimi or in sushi.

But before we get too serious, at one point the Gaang eats a “smoked sea slug” (Sokka’s Master)

Oh ATLA, never stop being you.

b) Utensils

One thing to keep in mind is chopstick etiquette. Someone like Zuko or Toph, for instance, would have completely internalized all of these.

Another thing is that there are no glasses. Cups and bowls are made of ceramic or clay. Let the Gaang show you:

And another note: characters won’t eat “bread” in the European sense, ie. a baked lump of dough. Steamed buns, yes. Fried pancakes made from batter, yes. Flatbreads, okay I’ll give it a pass. Rice or noodles should be the most common carbs of choice.

3.ETIQUETTE

“In the homeland, we bow to our elders” - angry schoolmistress in The Headband.

Japan Guide has a list of etiquette rules for visiting Japan, which is interesting but not too necessary to read. In general, based on what The Headband tells us, Fire Nation characters would have been raised with a strong nationalist curriculum that values communal contribution over individualist expression. Even someone like Zuko, who openly rebels against that, probably couldn’t help but be affected by it. In general the Fire Nation seems to have an East Asian-ish set of values. It’s patriarchal, all the positions of authority are filled by men; there seems to be a strong emphasis on patriotism; there’s a sense of diffidence and respect towards one’s elders; and finally, there’s an emphasis on “knowing” one’s place in society and fitting into what’s expected of oneself.

I don’t really know how to describe it, but in China and Japan I sometimes feel like there’s rules for everything, and even people born and raised there acknowledge it could be stifling at times. You could go down a rabbit hole researching points of etiquette (for instance, rules on who has to sit where in group dinners...), but to me the most important thing is acknowledging that Fire Nation has a rigid system of etiquette, and also, they’re an imperialist power who’s pretty prejudiced against foreigners. Poor Aang/Kuzon gets called “mannerless colony slob” just for being slow on the bowing action (!!!)

(in firebender’s guide I had a lot of fun imagining the stupid microaggressions Ambassador Sokka has to face in the Fire Nation, so obviously I’m just biased)

4.WRITING AND DESKS

Characters would probably write on paper, with a calligraphy brush. Not quills or pens -- a brush. Technically, old Japanese and Chinese texts should be written top to bottom, right to left, but the show itself doesn’t do this, so I think you’re fine.

One fun thing about traditional calligraphy is that you don’t use bottled ink. You have something called an ink stone, and then you grind your ink yourself by rubbing the ink stone in a special little dish with a bit of water. In my (very few) encounters with this stuff in the calligraphy lessons of my youth, the ink stones can be plain or have beautiful designs on the side. It looks something like this:

ATLA is an East Asian-ish universe, so characters are likely to be kneeling at a table, not sitting. To demonstrate, here’s my boy Sokka doing his famous rainbow at Piandao’s:

and here’s the war chamber meeting when Zuko speaks out against a general’s plans to sacrifice some soldiers:

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS: This is Zuko’s cute little setup when he’s writing his goodbye letter to Mai. In this case he’s writing in a chair and table. It’s possible that some furniture items, like a sitting desk and a bed in a bedframe (not a bedroll or futon) are special royal palace features. Normally in a private setting we see characters sitting on the ground or on a slightly elevated platform with a low table. Maybe Caldera is just different? Or rich people are just different: the Bei Fongs also have a sit-down dining table + chair setup.

(That little rectangular box is his ink dish!!)

5.A NOTE ON GENERAL CULTURE

It’s worth talking about a few general points of East Asian culture. I can’t claim to speak for ALL of Asia, and I don’t think I should. But I do think ATLA fic writers who want to set something in the Fire Nation should take a few moments to at least skim the wiki pages for filial piety and Nihonjinron (literally, "theories/discussions about the Japanese"). There’s a certain...vibe to...asianness... that I’m not sure I can explain without like, a doctorate degree in sociology.

It’s a bit like gender, I guess. There’s no definitive checklist to what is a woman and what is a man, and we can argue that gender is performative, that it’s a construct, but at the end of the day gender is still (tragically) real in the sense that it still shapes people and affects how we walk and talk and dress and think. Nationality is the same. Obviously, the Fire Nation is a made up place in a made up show, but out of respect to the cultures that inspired it, I do think it’s worth familiarizing yourself with some of these cultures’ codes and values.

Also, ahem, if I can direct you to war crimes in the Japan’s colonial empire. Again, worth remembering that the Fire Nation was an imperalist colonizer too.

I might do a continuation of this post and talk through my more abstract takes about Fire Nation culture - Is Zuko an example of filial piety gone right or filial piety gone wrong? Why I think Zuko’s flashbacks are like, at least part teenage melodrama bullshit (the reason is son preference), how someone like Sokka might be treated once he’s openly Water Tribe in the Fire Nation (probably with racism...), specific aspects of asian homophobia and racism, etc. We’ll see.

This is not a definitive guide. Comments and critique welcome.

If you think there’s a factual mistake, PLEASE hop in my asks and let me know. I also think there’s a huge blind spot in ATLA for South and Southeast Asian representation, so I acknowledge that I can’t speak for all Asians, and there is no such thing as a “pan-asian” identity.

If there’s something else you’re curious about, I’m not a historian or anything, but I like research. Ask me and I’ll try to answer the best I can.

And oh, one last thing, this is how I do research when I wrote firebender’s guide, in case anyone’s interested in learning more (LINK)

#Avatar The Last Airbender #zukka #atla fic #my fic #fire nation

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nothing-more-than-hot-leaf-juice · 4 years

Note

thoughts on bi!zuko? it's one of my biggest hcs

IN THIS HOUSE, WE LOVE AND SUPPORT Bi!Zuko

headcanons:

I know that there’s comic stuff about Sozin being homophobic, but I am within my rights to ignore it. If people can move rocks with their mind and if dragons can exist, there can be normalized gay people damn it.

So it’s not really a big deal to question your sexuality or to be gay/bi, but within the Fire Nation upper class you don’t really talk about it. There’s a heteronormativity problem, but not aggressive homophobia.

When he’s younger, Zuko doesn’t really think about anyone like that. He’s got firebending training, sword training, and then he’s crowned prince all of a sudden, so he’s kind of got other stuff going on.

Mai has a crush on him when she’s 12 and he’s 13 and he starts to develop some puppy-crush feelings from her.

They do a cute pre-teen date where they play with knives outside the palace and climb on roofs (Maiko does parkour on their dates, I don’t make the rules)

Mai’s really the only person he’s had feelings for by this point (again, he’s 13 and he’s been pretty busy being a prince and all to think about that sort of thing)

Then the whole banishment thing happens and he really does not have time to start thinking about those things. Hunting the avatar is a full time gig. Angst baby Zuko does not have time to sit and wonder if he thinks boy are cute.

(aside from this one time when his ship docked at this port and there was a cute sales boy at the shop they got their supplies from who made 14 year old Zuko blush just a little too hard. He made the decision to put a pin in that for later)

Then Zuko’s on a ferry to Ba Sing Se and there’s this crime boy aggressively flirting with him. The avatar hunt is on hold. It’s later, so Zuko takes that mental pin out.

Zuko can have a little ferry make out sess with mouth wheat crime boy, as a treat (let this boy have some semi-normal teenage experiences damn it)

To Jet’s credit, he’s a good kisser. But Zuko notes that he tastes like grass.

And you know, that whole thing didn’t end well.

Not your usual experience to have the guy who was your bisexual awakening burst into your work and (rightly) accuse you and your uncle of being firebenders and then attack you with hook swords, but Zuko’s never had the best luck with anything.

Jet gets arrested and Zuko doesn’t see him again, but he can’t really ignore that whole ‘oh man I guess I am into guys’ thing anymore. And it’s not like he’s got other stuff to do in Ba Sing Se besides make tea and stave off Iroh’s shopaholic tendencies.

Immediately after the Jet incident, Zuko’s more on his guard about potential threats, but what do you know? That girl just thought you were cute you paranoid dumbass.

He goes on the date with Jin and it’s awkward as hell, but he does like it when she kisses him. Honestly, he’s not really sure what he’s supposed to feel. This newfound attraction to guys is still in the back of his brain and Zuko just never thought about it seriously before.

After the date he starts letting himself take more notice of guys and girls in the teashop now that he’s pretty sure people aren’t onto them about being firebenders.

And you know.... good looking customers are good looking customers. Guys and girls.

But you know, Zuko is the king of not knowing who the fuck he is, so it’s still confusing,

And then the avatar pops back up and Zuko’s got a different identity crisis to focus on. The boy has a morality coma to get to and questioning his sexuality is put on the back burner for a bit.

Post-morality coma, Zuko’s feeling way more comfortable. Not just in terms of letting himself be happy in Ba Sing Se serving tea with his uncle, but with his sexuality as well.

Zuko thinks about his experiences and maybe, just maybe, he could be a teenager who goes on normal teenager dates and has normal teenage relationships, maybe with guys or girls. He lets himself have that notion for a little while.

He considers telling Iroh, but not quite yet.

He doesn’t get the chance after everything happens in the catacombs.

Then it’s the case where he has a more general identity crisis to deal and just kind of pushes the realization that he’s bi to the back of his mind.

Zuko and Mai get together and Zuko remembers how much he liked her when they were younger. And with everything else stressing him out, she’s there to help him feel like less of a stranger in his own home.

(Mai’s also Zuko’s best friend, regardless of any romance)

At Ember Island he does have jealousy issues, but later when Mai asks him why he was so fixated on that guy at the party Zuko starts describing exactly why those guys were attractive and how he logically would have been at least a little jealous “I mean come on Mai did you see that one guy’s biceps? I’m only partially blind”

Mai listens to this and just goes “do you want to ... tell me something?”

Zuko has a “oh yeah I’m pretty sure I’m bi, forgot to mention it, had other stuff going on” moment

Mai, who was taught to be proper and that her options were to go into politics or marry some man above her station, is now considering that both? Both is an option? Maybe?

Cut to Zuko when he joins the gaang. His bisexuality is just kind of something he doesn’t think is a big deal and doesn’t mention it.

On the air balloon to the Boiling Rock, Zuko asks Sokka about Yue and they end up talking about relationships.

Zuko mentions that he had this brief thing with a guy in Ba Sing Se but it didn’t really end well

Sokka: “wait did you say guy? I thought you had a girlfriend?”

the SWT is generally pretty accepting, but Sokka spent most of his life living in a village without many boys his age and didn’t really consider that as a possibility.

(Sokka then considers how much he thought about the Boulder after watching the Earth Rumble VI match and thinks ‘yeah there’s probably something there’)

Sokka asks Zuko more about bisexuality. Most of Zuko’s answers are along the lines of “Sokka go to sleep I don’t know who the Boulder is and I don’t care about his badger-mole tattoo”

Suki, Zuko, and Sokka form the unofficial ‘cool and bi club’

Zuko doesn’t officially come out to Iroh, but Iroh catches him looking at Sokka one day a while after he and Mai broke up (deciding they were better as friends) and makes a comment about how Zuko needs to take time for himself.

“Lord Zuko, you should not spend your teenage years with nothing but work. Go out, find a nice young lady to take out.” “Uncle...” “..or young man”

And yeah, a few years after the war ends and a while after he and Mai end their relationship, Zuko’s not really in the position to deny that he thinks that Sokka is inhumanely attractive and funny and kind

But yeah

bi!Zuko ftw

#also love gay!zuko #either headcanon is great!#zuko #atla #sokka #jet #mai #zukka #maiko #jetko #avatar the last airbender #hot leaf content

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sigurdjarlson · 2 years

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what we get about marianne, I guess, is that she runs up debt (possible hoarder?) partied with the roys once upon a time, or at least connor, (possible addict, like kendall and roman?) she's *seems* estranged from logan and ewan. she's divorced and again, like, doesn't *seem* to have any relationship with greg's dad, and greg never mentions him, and they haven't had any scenes interacting, so that makes me think she raised him alone, or that he flat out died. they haven't talked since season 1, and that could be an accident or done on purpose to show that she's cut him off like ewan did, and I think there's a scene where greg mentions that he had to cancel her cards. which gave me the impression that he was used to...idk how to put this, taking care of things for her. it made me wonder when that started because she's too young for her adult son to be handling her finances. that's senior citizen stuff, if it has to happen at all. all that and nic's comments about her make me go, "huh." like I don't know if I'm reading too much into it all, or if I'm just reading

Essay and speculation. incoming

Dude [gender neutral] I feel you I’m constantly latching into every little scrap of info I can get about Greg’s life prior to the show and his relationship with his mom, grandpa and absentee dad. I never know if I’m reading too much into these scraps or they’re there on purpose?

The hints (if they are) we do have point to a pretty sad story honestly.

I do remember Nic saying Greg comes from a “broken family” and saying “his dad isn’t around, his grandpa is distant and his mom feels far away” and that fuels his attachment to the Roys because he wants to be a part of something. He wants a family.

Either Jesse or Nic also said Greg was raised by his mom so I always assumed his dad bailed? Maybe after his affairs were found out? But of course that doesn’t mean he had to cut contact with Greg so there’s something even sadder than just a divorce there. Like either Marianne made sure he didn’t see his father or his father chose not to see him and both options are..heartbreaking :(

And the only mention of his dad in the show we get is Caroline saying he was a gay slut but Greg’s reaction always catches my eye

Someone said maybe it’s the first time he’s heard his dad is gay but I am almost positive that’s not the case. That’s not surprise on his face it’s resignation and discomfort. It’s a why did you have to bring that up face?

Which presuming his dad bailed than of course it hurts to have that thrown in his face as a funny joke (because it isn’t funny to Greg I’m sure, it ruined his family)

And we don’t know when his dad bailed. If his dad ever tried/tries to contact him? (Presumably he doesn’t from the interview where Nbraun says he’s not around)

we don’t know if it was a messy divorce (I feel it in my bones that it was) and we don’t know how it affected his mother (particularly if she already was rather unstable) and Greg himself as a child and even now as an adult.

I can’t imagine having that hanging over your head when you’re working for some homophobic conservative company with your homophobia enthusiast uncle. (This becomes downright sad if Greg is gay too)

The sad thing seems like it’s something people know about. Caroline mentions it casually at the CCD in front of Shiv (who wasn’t really listening but still).

I’m actually surprised (but Not because I’m not sure they’ve thought about it) none of the Roy kids rag on him for it. (Or have in the past) Shiv and Connor probably wouldn’t. Roman definitely would and honestly I could see Ken doing it too. Maybe in a less homophobic manner because he sometimes tries to posture but Ken can be a dick too

The only reason I can think of is that they don’t think about it or notice Greg’s presence so that’s not even on their radar.

The Roys fling insults and verbal attacks around like it’s nothing. It’s practically family fucking bonding for them lmao. Sometimes it’s as jokes and sometimes as genuine attempts to hurt so I would not be surprised if they turned haha your dead is gay and took off on you into a joke (I mostly can see Roman doing it honestly)

I could however absolutely see Logan throwing it at Greg if he got really fucking pissed at him (manifesting this for s4 because I’m horrible and like angst) “What are you a fucking faggot like your father, Greg? Is that it? Are you queer?”

And I could see that severely upsetting Greg. It’s cruel, it’s embarrassing if said in front of other people, and it hurts. (Especially if it’s true)

Whether he’d bite back I don’t know. We’ve seen him yell back at Logan twice but also he’s really skittish with him otherwise so I guess it depends on context.

(I went through a ton of interviews with Nbraun one night hoping for Greg scraps I do not have the links tho. You can find em if you Google Nicholas Braun succession interviews lmao)

He mentions he thinks Marianne sheltered Greg to some degree and never pushed him to get out there before the show (I get the impression this is like her last resort because Greg keeps fucking up)

And with Nic’s “this is a guy who’s never felt compelled to do anything in his life until now.” And then goes on to talk about how Greg has this strong streak of ambition because it’s his chance to be someone for once in his life and be like the side of the family he always wanted to be a part of. (And he did say that last part. Greg has always been envious of them to some degree)

(He did say he thinks Greg might have sold weed in school which showed a little entrepreneurial spirit he supposes)

Ewan seems absolutely incapable of forming any sort of emotional connection with his grandson. We’ve never see him interact with Marianne so we can’t say what the relationship is like there.

Nic stresses that Greg wants a relationship and connection with his grandfather but there just isn’t one. Ewan is incapable of giving Greg that.

You’re right it is weird Greg is handling her finances. I’m not sure if it’s just that one card or he’s dealing with her debt in general. When Caroline asks how his mom is he replies “debt free” and that’s before Ewan cuts her off and she panic buys nutribullets. (Lmao)

So it seems to be a reoccurring problem for her? Like one that might even be known to the family at large if he’s blurting it out to Caroline who just nodded like ah yeah that sounds right.

Nic and Jesse discuss that Ewan was stingy with his money and Greg and Marianne had to sort of ration out what he gave them. So, that implies he might have been financially supporting them at least a little? But not as much as he could have been for whatever reason.

And If they were already trying to manage what small amount they were given and she is bad at handling money..

But yeah she seemed to be in contact with the Roys at some point. I kind of headcanon there was a big fallout with Ewan and Logan that ended with them completely estranged. But before that they saw them maybe every once in a while.

Caroline mentions seeing baby Greg which I’m not sure if that’s in person or if she meant in photos?

Shiv knows his name when Logan doesn’t lmao

“Greg the Egg” is a nickname so they are vaguely aware of his existence lmao

But Marianne also did have Marcia’s number or claimed she did, she said she was going to call to tell them Greg was coming (Marcia however was trying to get Logan to reconcile with Ewan so it wouldn’t surprise me if she reached out to them)

Connor mentions knowing her “Your mom is funny, I remember she sat on Gore Vidal’s lap.” “Who’s..Gore Vidal?”

I think..if I had to guess based on the information given, both Greg and Marianne probably feel a fair bit of resentment towards Ewan for not giving them the life they see Logan give his kids when Ewan absolutely has the means to do so. And that makes sense. They’re probably left wondering why do they deserve it and I don’t? Why am I not worthy of it, I’m a Roy too? (Even if not in name anymore)

So I think things would be very different if Ewan simply didn’t have the money to give. There wouldn’t be that deep resentment of “why do they deserve it but not me?” I think that probably factors in a fair bit with both Greg and Marianne’s behavior.

Marianne doesn’t seem to have any emotional attachment to that side of the family either so I could see her being quite bitter about it all and the hand she was dealt. (The Roys aren’t exactly easy to love though)

She doesn’t seem even a little concerned about Logan and while Greg barely knows him so it makes sense he’s not particularly affected by it, she probably saw her uncle growing up more than Greg ever did. Then again Logan is a generally horrible person so they could also be why lmao.

She encourages Greg to strategize, to choose who’s more important [Roman or Shiv] and if that isn’t Roy behavior I don’t know what is.

And this might just be me, maybe I’m too soft but I thought her refusing to give Greg any more money was…harsh? Like I get the impression this definitely isn’t the first time Greg has called her asking for money but he literally had no where to stay or food to eat? Dude had to sleep on a church pew and then stay in that horrible little youth hostel. (And take food in dog poop baggies from work)

Like Shiv stole his last $20 while he was on the phone with his mom lmao.

So, that was kind of an asshole move in my opinion.

However there is also the chance that she doesn’t actually have money to give him and that’s a different case entirely then.

Running up her son’s credit cards is an absolutely shitty move regardless of circumstances though.

She does however apparently tell Ewan that Greg has no money and tells him or feed him when he’s in town. Ewan says exactly that when he comes before the vote of no confidence.

I think it’s interesting she hasn’t tried to visit him in person though? Like wouldn’t she want to be more involved in that side of the family from what we know about her? Why doesn’t Greg ask? It might very well be because the Roys simply never invite her tho. There must be a reason but we don’t know what it is.

So she does care about Greg even if she seems rather harsh and distant with him. Greg seems perpetually frustrated with her but he clearly does love his mother.

As for Ewan and Marianne. We know after the whole inheritance business Ewan cut her off too for some reason? I can only think it’s (1) he’s mad she sent Greg there in the first place (2) he’s punishing Greg by punishing his mother and both options are quite horrible.

He’s taking care of her money shit and I know we can’t really count deleted scenes as canon but I am STILL emotional about the deleted scene of Greg panicking during the “shooting” and saying he needs to call his mom :( I think he does try to call her in it.

(There’s also a scene after that where Tom mocks him for it but Nic said he couldn’t get through the scene without breaking character.

I think he says something about “it was Tom making fun of him after this genuinely vulnerable moment where he’s terrified he’s going to die and he just wanted his mother” I believe Tom says something like “What? Are you going to call your mommy?” And..oof)

There’s just these hints of tragedy and dysfunction in that side of the family too that haven’t been fully explored and I desperately hope they will be in future seasons.

I mean I know I stress this a lot but it’s so painful and important to me. Greg turned down a guaranteed quarter of a billion dollars because Logan said he likes him.

Likes.

Not even “love” just “like” my dude is desperate for even the bare minimum of affection so I can only assume he never got it at home

I can’t stress how genuinely heartbreaking that is? A quarter of a billion just because Logan said he liked him and this is after boar on the floor too!!!

And that’s the thing isn’t it? He doesn’t even get that bare minimum of “I like you” from his own grandfather. Greg offers Ewan affection and while he does come off as a suck up to get shit sometimes I think it is genuine too. Ewan doesn’t react or blatantly rejects physical affection.

He doesn’t even say “I love you too:” back to Greg says it. He would rather sit in silence for 12 fucking hours in the car than talk to Greg. He acts like he’s a general annoyance and disappointment at all times.

And then of course the inheritance business which is blatant manipulation:

The most we got from Ewan on Greg was “I have tried to show you as much love and compassion as I’m able” and that’s as he cuts ties with him. (“As I’m able” at least he’s somewhat self aware I guess? Because he’s not capable of it like..at all)

Greg was going to leave Waystar until Logan said that. (Logan knew what he was doing)

Tom also plays on Greg’s desire to be a family in a rather cruel way in s1. When he’s telling Greg about the death pit and telling him to look at the papers, Greg initially doesn’t want to look because obviously he doesn’t want to be implicated.

He only looks when Tom looks him in the eyes and says “You’re family.” And Greg literally thanks him for saying that and looks in the folder. (Tom knew what he was doing there too)

Greg has become less easy to manipulate with this I think as the seasons go by. After Greg Sprinkles he seems very skeptical of Logan’s claims they’re concerned about him and he does not fall for that alone this time. He turns it into a negotiation. He’s learning..for better or worse.

(For his own emotional well-being it’s better he not rely on affection from the Roys tho)

Oh Nic also does mention a big factor in why Greg went with Ken is because of “Greg Sprinkles”, it hit Greg that these people don’t actually care about him, he isn’t worth shit to them. :(

Tom cements that in the s3 finale, “who’s ever looked after you in this fucking family?” And the answer is obvious. Greg knows it.

(I think he could still be manipulated with it again if someone really put a least some effort into it though)

Ah sorry for rambling It’s fascinating to me and Greg is my favorite so of course I want to know more. Greg hasn’t really been explored as a character in his own right that much and I think it’s a damn shame. He’s got a lot of potential.

#asks #for some reason the ask lost my last few edits but o well #I hope you enjoy anon :)#succession asks #greg hirsch

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handsmotif · 3 years

Text

The Queercoding of Pinky and the Brain

This originally was just me infodumping to my friends on discord, but I decided it might be interesting to some people on here, so I polished it up and made it an actual essay lmao

To start, we’re going to break this into 2 sections -- the relationship between the mice, and Pinky’s relationship with gender, because queercoding doesn’t just mean gay!

For a 90′s show, Pinky and the Brain (and its mother show, Animaniacs) was very progressive for its time! But there were still lots of things that they couldn’t slip by censors, and thus, that’s where we have to read between the lines. And that is something I wanted to clarify here before we dive in, the actual meaning of queercoding. It’s NOT the same as queerbaiting. Queerbaiting is when the people producing certain media purposefully dangle the possibility of queer representation to lure in audiences (most prominent examples are BBC Sherlock, Riverdale, and Supernatural I GUESS? who knows abt that last one anymore), but never follow through, purely for profit. Queercoding is when media producers WANT to write in queer representation, but can’t, usually because the censors won’t let them. So, they must resort to subtext. (example: the policemen from Gravity Falls) It could also be unintentional, simply assigning certain characteristics associated with the LGBT community to characters. (example: Bugs Bunny, many Disney villains) Either way, it heavily relies on the audience picking up subtext, but whether it’s malicious or not varies, depending on the media. Bugs Bunny is an example of positive accidental queercoding, while a lot of Disney villains are negative examples.

Now, to actually discuss the gay little mice! Pinky and the Brain, whether it be intentional or not (based off comments from Maurice LaMarche, Rob Paulsen, and Tom Ruegger, signs strongly point to intentional, but it’s never been explicitly confirmed), is an example of positive queercoding.

There are many moments that I could pick out to discuss here, but we’ll start with some VERY on the nose gay metaphors.

Remember Romy? If you don’t, that’s their actual biological son! Romy came about due to a cloning accident, where their DNA got combined and spat him out.

There’s SO many things I could say about Romy. Every appearance he makes has an overarching gay metaphor as the plot. His first appearance in the episode Brinky (yeah it’s literally titled their ship name), it deals with his dads (WHICH I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT, he DOES call them both dad, and they do both call him their son) disapproving of the fact that he wants to leave home and not follow in their footsteps of taking over the world. Brain even goes as far as disowning him whenever he tells him, which is certainly something a lot of queer people can unfortunately relate to. Also seen a lot in this episode is Pinky and Brain arguing even more than a married couple than usual, which pushes Romy away even further. Later, when Romy eventually does leave, and Brain starts to regret chasing him away, he tries desperately to reach out to him, but Romy doesn’t want anything to do with him. They end up tracking him down to an apartment building, where Romy is now living with his human girlfriend. When questioned about their relationship, the girlfriend, named Bunny, goes off on a tangent about how people shouldn’t judge others based on labels or relationships (hello?), and that Brain needs to be more tolerant. Brain apologizes and Romy forgives him. Happy ending.

Romy’s only other appearance is in the comics. Essentially, the plot of this one is that Brain wants to become the president of the local high school’s PTA, but he needs Romy’s help to make it look like he has a normal home life. He also enlists the help of Billie, the obligatory Woman introduced to make sure Brain doesn’t look as gay as he actually is, that he has a crush on. She pretends to be his girlfriend, and Pinky pretends to be Romy’s uncle, while they make up the story that Romy’s actual mother was lost at sea. Because if the organization found out that Brain has a son with a MAN??? THINK of the controversy! Anyway, the plan works, and Brain actually manages to get elected as president. Throughout this though, Pinky gets WEIRDLY jealous that Brain keeps brushing him aside for Billie. To the point where during Brain’s inauguration, Pinky actually dresses up as the wife/mother lost at sea and storms into the room.

[ID: Comic panels of Pinky, Brain, and Romy on stage at the inauguration ceremony. Pinky busts into room wearing drag, saying, “Yoo hoo! I’m back from years lost at sea to be with my son and ungrateful husband! Narf!” He then hugs Romy, while glaring at Brain. He goes on to say, “I’ll stand by your side, even though you left me behind!” The people in the audience begin to question this, saying, “Oh great fuzzy bangs!”, “What’d she say?!”, “He deserted her to be with that other woman!”, “What kind of monster is he?!”. Brain then rips off Pinky’s wig and says, “This isn’t my wife! This isn’t even a woman! It’s my roommate, Pinky.” Pinky replies, “Well, yes... But Romy really is my son! Poit!” And Brain responds, “N-Nonsense! He’s my son!” More people in the audience angrily speak up, saying, “What’s that?”, “He lives with a guy who likes to dress up in women’s clothing and the both claim to be that kid’s father!”, “Grumble! Mutter!” /END ID]

Needless to say, this doesn’t end well for them. What we can conclude from this is that homophobia exists in the Pinky and the Brain universe, and our characters are directly affected by it.

Moving on, And-There-Was-Only-One-Bed is a pretty common occurrence with these two. Their cage is big, they have plenty of room for two beds, but? They choose to sleep together? Even in some times where this has been inconsistent and they DO have separate beds, they’re always RIGHT next to each other. (what if we put our minecraft beds together ❤😳)

I would like to mention the episode, You’ll Never Eat Food Pellets In This Town Again! This episode is interesting to say the least. Deals with a lot of the meta of the show. Anyway. In this episode, Brain has a nightmare that he’s in a loveless marriage with Billie. You know, the woman he’s supposed to have a crush on. In the end, he wakes up from the nightmare in the same bed as Pinky.

Speaking of female love interests, Pinky is seen having multiple relationships with characters of different species. Any time this is brought up by Brain, Pinky counters with Brain being too intolerant. An honorable mention with this is in Wakko’s Wish, when Pinky is with Pharfignewton, and Brain’s constant pestering about their relationship could be read as jealousy. Pinky needs a mousy date, after all!

Something else I would like to mention is in one episode (I forget what it’s called, I’ll try to look it up later and edit this), Brain is applying for a job. The employer asks Brain if he’s married, and Brain hesitates before saying he “has a roommate,” but that he’s occupied with his own things, which then cuts to a shot of Pinky applying lipstick.

Leading into part two of this essay, Pinky’s relationship with gender! Pinky has always been very gender nonconforming, and loves to wear dresses, do his makeup, and make himself look pretty. For the most part, this is played pretty straight, and not as a gag, like a lot of shows tend to do! It’s just a casual fact about him that he likes to present femininely sometimes.

This does play into their taking over the world plans pretty often, where Pinky wears drag, usually either to sneak into somewhere. Like in one of their earliest appearances on Animaniacs, Noah’s Lark, where they pose as a couple to board Noah’s, and I quote, “love boat.” After boarding, Noah says to himself, “Who am I to judge?” Okay. Yeah. Alright. Anyway.

I actually had less to say on this than I thought I did, but I wanted to make sure to emphasize that Pinky at the very least is coded as being Not Quite Cis, and that he’s played a key part in helping a lot of people watching the show figure out that they’re also Not Quite Cis.

Wrapping this up because I’m hungry, but I want to throw in some more honorable mentions that I really do not see any type of cishet explanations for:

They literally go on a romantic date at a very fancy restaurant in Brain’s Night Off. This is played extremely casually, and the only remark from anyone that they receive is that they are “much smaller than the usual clients.”

Pinky, on at least one occasion, daydreams about him and Brain being a married couple, and wanting to be a housewife (the original malewife ❤)

There’s an issue in the comics where Pinky has a crush on another male mouse, and when Brain gets annoyed, Pinky reassures him that he thinks Brain is cute and quite the catch too

Brain attempting to kiss Pinky in the reboot??????

Brain actually did conquer the world once in the Halloween special, because Pinky made a deal with the devil for it, and thus Pinky got sent to hell! Brain actually went to hell and gave up the world to bring him back

Brain was extremely close to conquering the world once more in the Christmas special, but after reading what Pinky’s feelings for him were (nothing romantic, just Pinky basically just praising Brain for being so hardworking and an amazing mouse, and lamenting that he never gets anything for it), he gets so emotional that he sabotages himself and wishes everyone a Merry Christmas instead

TLDR; these mice are very queer and need therapy, and are probably the most heavily queercoded characters that I can think of in children’s media.

#animaniacs #pinky and the brain #patb #brinky #FLOPS ON THE FLOOR this took a long time to write

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cc-tinslebee · 3 years

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Okay, so, about a month ago, my brain just conjured up probably the most random au possible: Legally Blonde Adam Banks/banksway au.

Believe me, it's as chaotic as it sounds, but lowkey, I'm kind of in love with it.

Adam never joins the Ducks because there aren't any Ducks to join. Bombay never had to do community service with District Five so there was no one to realise that Adam was on the wrong team all along. He continues to play for the Hawks and, eventually, the Eden Hall Warriors, never getting the chance to become the well-rounded individual we know him as because he's never known anything other than his rich privilege and the "win at all costs" mentality. He ends up going to college on a hockey scholarship and not straight to the NHL or the AHL (shocking, I know). While he's unsure of his major and where his life is heading, he finds solace in the fraternity he joins, which, by some sheer twist of fate, Jesse and Guy have also miraculously joined.

And his life is perfect for a while. He's the star player on yet another school's hockey team, all of his fraternity brothers adore him (though, it took a bit for Jesse to warm up to him), and his secret, not-really-official thing with his former teammate is going swimmingly. (Not to slander my boy, but I was picturing Larson for the role of Warner, purely because the alternative seems to be Rick Riley and that's kind of an unsettling image-- though, maybe that's the point?)

But then his secret boyfriend breaks up with him because, with his high aspirations in life, he needs to be "more serious." And dating Adam Banks, a guy in a stereotypical fraternity who only really knows hockey, in 2001 isn't exactly the white-picket-fence life he's looking for if he's going to be a politician.

And since this non-Duck Adam clearly doesn't have the braincells that canon Adam does, in his devastation, he decides it's a brilliant idea to prove that he is serious by applying to Harvard Law. His parents try to talk him out of it, since they want him to pursue his dreams of hockey, but being a lawyer is a respectable career so they can't exactly argue with him.

He gets accepted thanks to Jesse, Guy, and the rest of his fraternity helping him study for the LSAT and keeping him on track. He's trying his darndest when he gets to Harvard, but (despite his struggle not being as significant as Elle Woods'), not a lot of people take him seriously as an aspiring lawyer, considering him a meathead jock who only got in because of daddy's money.

And that's about the time he meets Linda, who he vaguely remembers from his time at Eden Hall. What he doesn't remember is her being so competitive, because she's deliberately beating him at every turn, just trying (and kind of succeeding) at making him look like a fool. To make matters worse, all of the sudden, she's engaged to his ex-boyfriend, who is very adamant about never telling anyone that he and Adam were more than friends (because, you know, early 2000s homophobia and such).

But things get a little brighter for Adam when he meets Charlie, an undergrad teacher's assistant who gives him all sorts of advice about surviving the school. He introduces him to Professor Bombay, who Charlie claims is the only reason he survived his first year and quickly becomes Adam's favourite teacher, and Charlie's childhood friend Connie, who aspires to be a state senator one day. Charlie's charismatic and even if he's not the most well-liked person at Harvard, Adam feels a weight lifted off his shoulders once he becomes friends with him and Connie. Things become a little easier.

Just before he and Charlie start getting really close, Adam meets Casey at a local diner on a day he's feeling particularly upset and alone, and the two start bonding almost immediately. (He bullshits his way into scaring an ex-husband of hers with legal repercussions he has no idea about and she basically adopts him in return.) It takes him an embarrassing amount of time to realise that it's not just a coincidence that Casey and Charlie share the same last name, which results in poor Adam feeling extremely embarrassed for not connecting the dots sooner while Charlie's having the time of his life teasing him for it. Eventually, when the dust of that settles, Charlie and Adam join forces to set Casey and Bombay up, their schemes borderline ridiculous at times, but they'rere not exactly failing.

And after realising he isn't the Warriors moron she thought he was for going on five years, Linda starts warming up to Adam, which is surprisingly nice? She figures out on her own that there used to be something between him and her fiancé, and is more understanding of Adam than she is mad. Linda actually spills to him the lengths Adam's ex had to go through to actually get into Harvard, aligning more with the rumours about Adam's acceptance being bought than having the aptitude for the law that Linda and Adam share. (This may be me saying Linda and Adam friendship rights, what of it-- /lh)

To make things all the better, Bombay chooses Adam, Linda, Connie, Charlie, and Adam's ex to be on his legal team for a murder case he's responsible for (and while he knows about Adam and Charlie's ploys to hook him up with Charlie's mom, they're his favourites, so he doesn't say anything).

And this is just so much better than anything he had before. After all the initial unpleasantness, Linda and Connie become some of the most genuine friends he's ever had. He misses Guy and Jesse, of course, and he'd never take them for granted, but back when he was with them at the fraternity, a part of him was still being as superficial as he had been in middle and high school. Being authentic for once in his life is liberating.

And Charlie's just about the most considerate person Adam's ever met. Adam doesn't even mind when Charlie teases him over his absurd and juvenile insults because he's just this source of light for Adam, supporting him and always pushing him to be the best version of himself. His ex hardly even exists when Charlie's around because his energy is just so contagious that Adam starts falling for him long before he even realises it. (And when Jesse and Guy come to visit, there's a moment where it all clicks and the four of them realise their history together, however brief. I strongly maintain that they'd be that Starkid meme: "Fucking Hawks? We hated you guys!" "We hated ourselves!" But it does make Adam realise how much better off he would've been if he had Charlie and his team when he was little instead of the Hawks, and it just further makes him understand that people like Larson and Rick Riley just aren't worth it.)

But there's also another revelation Adam goes through. Between helping Casey, his rigorous studies, and his position working with/for Bombay, something just clicks for Adam. He likes being able to help people, fighting for the good guys who may not have the resources they need to be properly defended. Practicing law calls to him in the same way hockey did; it's the feeling of knowing this is what he's meant to do. He still loves hockey, he always will, but it helps him finally grasp that there's a world for him outside of it; when hockey ends for him, there's something equally as rewarding that he can pursue, which was something he never thought he would have.

I haven't a single coherent thought about this au past that point except for these little inklings of an ending--

There's absolutely no SA scene like the movie had; Bombay's just Adam and Charlie's favourite teacher and those are his boys, so he's going to make sure they succeed as if his life depends on it.

With that said, Bombay believes in them both enough to let them finish the case because with their joined determination/stubbornness (and Adam's in with the defendant), Adam and Charlie are a force to be reckoned with and he knows it.

After a handful of comedic failures, they do end up succeeding at their attempts to set Casey and Bombay up, and they start living together sometime during the kids' Junior year :) (All I'm asking is for one (1) story with a Casey/Gordon endgame-- I just think they're neat--)

Linda dumps her fiancé (as she should) and goes on to live her best wlw life as a successful lawyer. (If I'm not mistaken, Linda's actress actually is a lawyer, which is a pretty cool fun fact!!)

Adam and Linda's ex gets the Warner ending because, man, screw that guy /lh (rip to Larson if this is him, I'm sure you'll get a nice endgame in some other universe, king)

Honorary mention for Connie, who was going long distance with Guy this entire time to everyone but Jesse's shock, and they get their Game Changers endgame of State Senator Connie Moreau and stay-at-home dad Guy Germaine with their seven -- sorry, three -- children :)

Adam's an absolute bundle of nerves after graduation, which definitely concerns Charlie. So, when he asks if he's okay, Adam starts nervously monologuing about their time together until he runs out of breath. He ends it by proposing to him, and Charlie smiles so surely at him when he says yes. They both become damn good public defenders and stay engaged until the point they can legally get married, but they're practically husbands long before that happens.

Also, if I did my math right (which I should’ve, it’s my entire basis for my Share Your Address series), the Ducks’ would have the same graduating class year as Elle Woods anyway (2004), which is pretty neat!

Thank you once again for listening to me ramble :)

#i just think they're neat that's all--#full disclosure: i have not listened to/seen the musical yet but I have heard very good things about it #adam banks #charlie conway #gordon bombay #linda the mighty ducks #connie moreau #banksway #charlie x adam #the mighty ducks #casey x gordon

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my-happy-little-bean · 3 years

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The Rainbow Manor

pairing: platonic DLAMP words: 5138 warnings: swearing, references to homophobia, toxic/homophobic parents, brief description of a small injury, blood, brief descriptions of panic/anxiety attacks, crying, angst

a/n - hello friends! hope everyone is doing well! i was lucky enough to be commissioned by the lovely @youronelesbianfriend to write this story (side note, their commissions are open too so...whatcha still doin here, go and do that!). i was overjoyed when i saw the prompt she gave me, and had such a good time writing it! (also inspired me to maybe formally advertise commissions? you can peek at my tumblr every now and then to see if i do, but if you also want one you can DM me!)

so without further ado, here is some content ✨

read on ao3!

—

The Rainbow Manor is a lot of things.

It’s a home for the biggest family that could exist. It’s a safe haven from the cold, stormy outdoors. It’s the kind of blanket made of the same velvet the night sky is made of; it’s quiet, it’s warm, and it’s filled with stars. All it takes is one step inside and you would find yourself filled with a sense of belonging, of hope.

You could run the furthest distance away from it all, and the Rainbow Manor would always open its doors to you.

Patton would know. He was the first one to try.

~*~

“Okay, so here’s what happened,” Roman Prince said, looking down at his clipboard as he weaved him and Patton through the halls. “I was going to show the new people around myself, but then I forgot the paperwork in your office — and then I realized, ‘hey, what better person to show them around than The Man himself!’; capital T, capital M!”

Patton half-heartedly smiled as he snuck a peek at Roman’s papers.

“How many are there?”

“Three, so it won’t be too bad. One of them’s Virgil — you remember Virgil, right?”

“Right.” Patton smiled fondly, remembering Roman’s birthday party last year. Him and Virgil had shown up covered in cake. He never really saw Virgil after that day, but clearly him and Roman stayed acquainted against all odds.

They turned a corner into the break room where three people sat around a table. Roman clapped his hands.

“Alrighty! Sorry for the wait.”

All three of them stood up. The one in the black and purple hoodie—the one Patton recognized as Virgil—rolled his eyes.

“Waiting is part of the contract with you, Princey.”

Roman faux-gasped. “Hey, that was one time! And if I didn’t take too long that day, we would have taken the wrong cake!”

“We did take the wrong cake, Roman. That’s why it exploded.”

“...Oh yeah.” Roman grinned. “Forgot about that.”

Virgil shook his head, but showed a hint of a smile. Patton took a step forward to extend his hand out to him.

“Nice to see you again, Virgil!” He then addressed the two behind him. “And if we’re talking cake, I guess you both can call me Patton-cake!”

The one wearing a black, short-sleeve button up frowned, adjusting their thin blue tie.

“I read on the website that your name is Patton Morgan.”

“It’s like patty-cake, but Patton-cake!”

“...Right.”

“Ignore my friend’s simply lively commentary.” The last person stepped forward. They wore a pale-yellow button up under a grey vest. “That’s Logan. Do not be astounded by how that pencil is both sharp and dull — he’s always like that.”

“And that’s Janus,” Logan seethed, crossing his arms. “They’re always like that.”

Patton chuckled. “Well it’s nice to meet you both. I’ll show you guys around?”

They all nodded, following Patton as he led them out the door. The icy awkwardness of first encounters fortunately thawed as conversation quickly blossomed. Patton learned that Logan was the new volunteer manager and was close friends with Janus, who was joining the growing team of counsellors. Virgil, on the other hand, was the newly-appointed social media and communications coordinator; a position Roman used to double as alongside being head of recreation and programming, until he overdid it with the website graphics and crashed the site for two days. Sometimes, change was necessary, Patton learned.

“So that’s pretty much the whole place!” Patton said brightly at the end of the tour, stopping outside his office. He handed them their job description packages. “I hope you all get situated soon! And if you ever need anything, you now know where my office is!” He motioned to the door with jazz-hands. “Here!”

“Thank you, Patton,” Logan hummed. He looked around idly. “I must say, I am rather impressed by how well-established and organized the facility is, especially for one that is fairly new.”

“Well call me corny, ‘cause all I can say is ‘aw shucks’!” Patton beamed. “You know, if you told me almost a year ago that I’d be standing here today, I think I’d be impressed too!” He nudged at Roman. “But I obviously didn’t do any of it alone. It’s the people that really make this place home — people like Roman, who’s been with me since the very beginning!”

“Oh, Patton! You make me sound like the hero of this place.” Roman pretended to flip his hair. “So thank you!”

“A humble hero,” Virgil retorted. Roman just stuck out his tongue at him.

“But in all seriousness, Patton’s downplaying his efforts to the floor!” Roman wrapped an arm around Patton’s waist and pulled him in close. He waved out in front of him. “He’s a true phoenix who rose from the ashes and built this place with his own two hands!” Roman then spun Patton away from him, a trail of giggles following suit. “Plus he does a bunch of other stuff too! He has, like, a gazillion side-gigs, he sometimes volunteers at an animal shelter…”

“It sounds like you may also be interested in a day off,” Janus piped up.

“It’s really not that much!” Patton awkwardly shuffled where he stood. “I...I like staying busy.”

Janus tilted their head at him. “Right.”

Patton shot them a quick smile before diving back into the end of their paperwork. Then the three of them, along with Roman, said their goodbyes and scattered to their respective offices.

Patton leaned against his office door with a wry smile. They all seemed like nice people, he thought. He was lucky to have them.

(Roman’s words from weeks ago echoed in his head; the same words that were said to him the night of his first breakdown, when they first called.

“You need all the help you can get, Pat.”)

And he needed all the help he could get.

~*~

A few days later, Patton found himself leaning against the front of his desk, outstretching his hand towards the teen in front of him.

“Jonah, your feelings are valid, no matter what they are.”

The words slid off Patton’s tongue almost effortlessly. Jonah sniffled.

“I know, Pat. And– and I’ve already made a lot of friends here that have told me that. It’s been so good for me here, but…” Jonah buried their face in their hands. “Every night before I go to sleep, I can’t stop thinking about what they told me before they kicked me out. It’s like I get tunnel vision. I can see the person I have grown to be on the other side, but all I’m doing is going backwards.”

Jonah looked up at Patton with teary eyes. “And I don’t wanna go back, Patton. I...I don’t want to go back.”

Patton felt a chill run through his spine. Quiet echoes buried themselves in the back of his mind.

“I understand that it’s difficult to feel like you’re moving forward when it feels like the most important people in your life are pushing you back. And it...it sucks. I’m so sorry.” Patton swallowed down the temptation to cave as he continued. “I...I think all we can do is remember that those important forces in your life aren’t what’s given to you, but are what’s found. And I feel like you’ve done a lot of searching — for now, try and let yourself be found.”

Jonah broke into a small smile. Before Patton knew it, the teen stumbled forward into an embrace, holding Patton tight and crying. Patton’s hands hovered in the air behind their back, unsure of what to do. Eventually, Patton came to his senses and hugged them back.

“I’m thankful I found this place,” Jonah mumbled into Patton’s chest. “It’s– it’s built on a lot of hope. I don’t think I could have found it anywhere else.”

Patton’s heart shattered.

‘I wish I could give you more.’ He squeezed Jonah tighter. ‘I’d give you all I had, and you’d never know.’

Jonah left a few minutes later, thanking Patton for giving them a space to be honest. All Patton could do was nod numbly. He knew Jonah was new and it was hard to be new here, but Patton was certain that they’d find their place. The kids who came here always did.

Patton walked around his desk to sit down. He took one look at his phone, frowned, then set it aside with a sigh. For a brief moment, Patton relished sitting in the precious silence that finally found his office.

Then, a knock on his door.

“Come in!” Patton said, straightening up and folding his hands neatly on his desk. The door cracked open and Logan’s head peeked in.

“Is this a good time, Patton?”

“Yeah, of course!”

Logan stepped inside and handed some papers to Patton.

“I filed through the volunteer applications and started arranging interviews in the coming weeks. I just wanted to run the dates by you before I start contacting people. Hopefully they suffice.”

“Wow! Thank you, Lo.” Patton took the papers, slowly sifting through them. “These look really good! I’ll have a look at them tonight.”

“Tonight?” Logan echoed. “Are you staying late again?”

“Oh! Yeah, I am.” Patton shrugged. “Just a bit of extra paperwork.”

“Well if you require any assistance tonight, I can stay around–”

“No, no! That won’t be necessary.” Patton waved his hand dismissively. “Go and enjoy your night, Lo.”

Logan’s stare seemed to bury itself through Patton, enough for Patton to look away.

“...Well, please do not hesitate to let me know if you need anything else.”

As Logan was leaving, Patton felt his phone buzz. He snuck a peek and paled.

‘Missed call(s): Mother (2) - 5:34 PM’

“Um, leave the door open, Lo!” Patton suddenly blurted out. Logan turned around and tilted his head. Patton flimsily added, “I– I think I’m going to try and get some air.”

Logan nodded, lifting his hand off the door handle before walking out. Patton took a deep breath and then stuffed his phone in his pocket before leaving as well.

—

Later that evening, Patton wandered into his office in a daze. He turned the lights on and inwardly groaned at the stacks of paper awaiting him.

He dragged his feet to his desk, only stopping to check his phone. The ‘missed call’ notification lingered, except now the number was ‘3’.

Patton felt his jaw tighten. He couldn’t run forever.

As he sat down, he noticed a small cup behind one stack of paper. He grabbed it. The smell of coffee swarmed his head. He smiled, noticing a small sticky note on its side.

“Keep up the great work. Your friend, Logan.”

~*~

“Okay everyone! Grab your brushes!”

Patton blinked. Somehow, his memory of the manor floors failed him, and he ended up in the recreation room. He felt eyes stare up at him, Roman’s included.

“Ah, Patton! Man of the hour! What brings you here?”

Patton sheepishly rubbed the back of his neck. “I, um, got lost! If you could believe it, heh.”

“ ‘Lost’ is just a way of saying ‘found, but with a few extra steps’!” Roman motioned to an empty seat. “How about you join us for a bit?”

Patton opened his mouth to protest, though felt cornered by all the expectant stares. He even spotted Jonah, who smiled and waved at him. Patton sighed. He had been wound up for days now; perhaps Roman’s theatrics was all he needed.

He finally nodded, going over to sit in front of the vacant canvas. Roman grinned at him with a warmth Patton let himself melt into.

“Alright! Let’s begin.” Roman cleared his throat. “I want you to pull on the colours of your heartstrings. Forget form, structure– even an outline. Your emotions know no bounds, after all! Just remember, your hand is not controlling the brush — it’s your heart.”

Patton felt the words wash over him. Roman, of course, was right; he didn’t even notice his hand moving as he painted. Though somehow, it didn’t feel as peaceful as Roman described it to be. Instead, it felt like something was being pulled out of Patton, as though a claw was scooping something out of his chest and spilling it onto the canvas.

Suddenly, his ringtone cut through Roman’s monologue. Patton jumped, dropping his brush. A line of paint dragged across the canvas as it fell. All eyes were on him again.

“Um, excuse me! I– I’m just going to take this.” Patton pressed answer without looking at who called as he stumbled out of the room.

“Hello?”

“I see you’ve finally answered.”

Patton’s heart dropped.

—

Roman was halfway through the end of his monologue when, in the corner of his eye, he spotted Patton re-enter the room, head ducked.

“Ah! I’m glad you’re back!”

Patton nodded, but in the stilted way Roman quickly recognized. His eyes looked Patton up and down, barely listening to Patton’s stammering apology for interrupting. His hair was disheveled, which meant he ran his hand through it far too many times. His eyes were red, his jaw was tight–

He was crying.

“Anyway, I’m sorry again for leaving so soon!” Patton’s voice brought Roman back to reality. “Keep painting you guys! I gotta Van-Gogh!”

A shaky laugh followed Patton out. Roman frowned, but he nodded for everyone to continue. He passed by Patton’s canvas and snuck a peek.

It was rather abstract, with overlapping strokes forming a gradient. Roman’s gaze followed the gradient downwards. The canvas was filled with dull blues that turned into darkening greys. Towards the bottom was a thin line of black trailed all the way to Patton’s paintbrush, abandoned on the floor.

~*~

The sun sets on a long railroad, it goes past the horizon, it outstretches a hand like it’s beckoning, it’s begging you to run, run faster, everything is going faster and they just told you to go so you have to–

“Pat?”

Patton shot up in his seat with a yelp. He blinked quickly, vision focusing on the silhouette of–

“Virgil!” A strangled laugh escaped his throat. “Sorry, I didn’t hear you come in!”

Virgil replied simultaneously, “No, I’m sorry, you just weren’t answering and I got worried, but I didn’t realize you were sleeping–”

“Sleeping?” Patton looked down at the time. 5 PM.

“Oh sh– shoot, I’m gonna be late.”

“Late for?”

“Animal shelter,” Patton mumbled, stumbling out of his chair and grabbing his bag. “I forgot that I said I’d come in today– gosh how could I forget–”

“Hey.” Virgil rested a hand on Patton’s shoulder before Patton could go spiralling out the door. “Deep breath. I’ll drive you, it’ll be okay.”

Patton opened his mouth to protest, but remembered the time. He sighed and motioned wordlessly at the door. Virgil nodded, leading the two of them out towards the parking lot.

“Anyway, I’m sorry if it’s a bad time, I was just hoping to run some website revisions by you,” Virgil said as he started the car and backed out of the lot. Patton shakily smiled.

“No! It’s not a bad time at all, you can tell me about your ideas as you drive!”

“There’s not much. I was just thinking of ways to maybe make it more approachable. There’s not even really an ‘about us’ page or anything about you–”

“Why would there need to be anything about me?”

Virgil looked at him, almost confused. “It’s an amazing organization, Pat. Your name should be up there, especially as the founder…?”

“Oh! R-Right.” Patton let out a sharp laugh. “I guess I never thought about it before.”

“I could put something together tonight, I was just thinking it'd be cool to hear you talk about it.” Virgil turned at an intersection. The sign of the animal shelter soon came into view.

“I guess that’d be a good idea!” Patton shrugged. “But there’s, um, not really anything interesting to know.”

Virgil frowned, falling quiet as he parked the car. When they stopped moving, Virgil turned to face him.

“Say, would it be okay if I joined you?” Virgil shuffled awkwardly in his seat. “I, um, have a bit of a free night, and I was thinking that maybe I could just ask you stuff for the website now so I don’t have to bother you later…?”

Patton’s eyes lit up. “Oh, that sounds perfect! Liz will probably be okay with it. I think it’s bath night for the dogs, and we can always use an extra hand with that!”

Virgil chuckled, following Patton out the car and into the animal shelter.

Patton gathered the energy he had left to greet Liz and everyone else, already cooing over the various animals he and Virgil passed by. They reached the back and, with only a bit of struggle (Patton would never admit to these cute dogs being a struggle), took each dog a bath. All the while, Virgil asked Patton questions about the Rainbow Manor and his life in general, which Patton did his best to answer.

“I ended up founding the Rainbow Manor a year after I graduated.” Patton wiped his brow as they finished drying the last dog. “I had been living on Roman’s couch for so long after being kicked out and I just wanted to turn it around; not only for myself, but for other people.”

Virgil’s stare softened. “I– I’m sorry. N-Not about how you founded the place but, like...why you felt like you needed to. That must’ve been hard.”

“Yeah.” Patton forced a shrug. “It is what it is. Sometimes, you have to get lost to be found, right?”

“Right.” Virgil looked up at Patton. “Do...do you still keep in touch with them? Your parents, I mean.”

Patton felt his heart squeeze.

“It’s been so long,” he finally said. “I doubt they’d want to talk to me.”

—

Virgil offered to drive Patton back, but Patton insisted on taking a cab home. Virgil reluctantly conceded, but promised to email Patton when he drafted the additions to the website. Patton just nodded and watched Virgil drive off.

When he was sure that Virgil was completely gone, he shakily pulled out his phone and called a cab.

“Hi! I– I just need to go to The Rainbow Manor,” he said to the driver as he climbed into the car. He found himself laughing. “Long work day. It is what it is.”

~*~

Days passed, and Patton’s workload somehow doubled: new admissions, new initiatives, new everything.

(And his mother kept calling. And calling. And calling.)

To say it was a lot was an understatement.

Patton found himself going back and forth along the manor halls, forcing a smile at those he passed. He closed his eyes, turning a corner before he knocked into someone.

“Crap! I– I’m so sorry.” Patton quickly scrambled to gather the papers that had fallen onto the floor.

“Oh, don’t apologize, I always thought that important documentation would make for good confetti– ah, hello, Patton.”

Patton looked up. Janus appeared above him, outstretching their hand to help Patton up. Patton took it, scooping the papers up as he went.

“Janus! Hi! Well, if you’re looking for me...here I am!” He laughed, though it sounded scratchier than expected. “Everything okay?”

“More than, thank you. I just wanted to follow up about my schedule for the new admissions? You mentioned yesterday that I should come to you but I couldn’t find you…”

Patton winced. His chest tightened.

“F– I forgot, goodness how am I always–”

“It’s quite alright, Patton, I can always–”

“I–It’s not okay!”

In the corner of his eye, Jonah passed by. He felt their wide eyes on him. The air grew thinner.

“It’s– gah, it’s never fucking–”

“Oookay. We’re not okay and that’s...okay.”

Janus suddenly took Patton’s arm and led him to their office. They swiftly kicked the door shut with their foot as they let Patton settle on the couch.

“Breathe for me,” Janus said slowly, pulling up a chair and sitting across from Patton. They took Patton’s hand and motioned for him to follow their lead. “In for 4, hold for 7, out for 8…”

They repeated this a few more times until Patton let go of his head and his breathing evened out.

“I– I’m so sorry, Janus. I don’t know what–”

“It’s fine, Patton. I’m glad I could help.” A pause. Janus leaned back in their chair. “Is there anything you want to talk about?”

“No, everything’s fine.”

Janus raised a brow.

“Okay, everything’s not fine. But...but it will be fine. I have to be fine.” His mind drifted to Jonah. Patton buried his face in his hands.

“I can’t be like this,” he said, tears threatening to fall. “I...I just can’t. Not now, this– this can’t be happening now.”

“Unfortunately, these things tend to find us — not the other way around.” Janus squeezed Patton’s hand in a sudden moment of softness. “I...I know what this is, Patton. And I don’t have to tell you what to do because I know you know. You help so many people like you, but remember: when the plane is falling, you have to put on your oxygen mask before you help someone else.”

Patton locked eyes with Janus for a split second, opening his mouth to respond when he felt his phone ringing. Reflexively, he pulled it out in front of his lap. The air disappeared once more.

‘Incoming call: Mother’

Patton quickly pressed ‘decline’. He then looked up at Janus, whose eyes darted upwards as well.

Shit.

“I– I have to go.”

“Wait, Patton–”

“Thank you for everything, Janus,” Patton mumbled, and before Janus could reply, Patton sped out of the room and slammed the door shut behind him.

~*~

“I just don’t get it,” Roman muttered, leg bouncing under the table in the break room. “I’ve never seen him like this before.”

“You haven’t?” Janus circled the table like a hawk.

“What makes you think I have?”

“Oh, I don’t know! Maybe it’s the fact that he has about a thousand jobs! Or perhaps it’s that he’s been staying overnight every night to work as if he owns the place — oh wait! He does! But I have no idea why that might be stressful at all!”

Roman glowered at them, but said nothing.

“I can imagine that his workload presumably doubled this past month,” Logan, sitting across from Roman beside Virgil, adjusted his glasses. “Between the new admissions, growth in our volunteer admissions…”

“Okay, so he has a lot on his plate!” Roman pinched the bridge of his nose. “But I’ve seen him stressed out about these sorts of things. This is different.”

“So what else could be on his mind?” Virgil piped up.

Janus suddenly stopped in their tracks.

“His mother.”

Roman’s heart dropped. “His– his what?”

“She called him while Patton was in my office,” Janus murmured. “He left straight after.”

Virgil frowned. “Why would he...”

Roman felt as if he had burst into flames. The pieces clicked together in his head.

“The– the fucking nerve of that woman, I can’t believe she’s still–”

“Roman, what are you talking about?” Logan cut in.

Before Roman could respond, he felt a buzz in his pocket. He immediately pulled out his phone. His breathing hitched.

‘Help.’

“It’s Patton,” he blurted out, stumbling out his chair and making his way out of the room. Everyone exchanged looks, but quickly followed suit.

Roman weaved his ways through the halls until he neared Patton’s office. Loud sobs were muffled behind the door. Roman felt his heart breaking already as he opened it.

And there was Patton, on the floor, crying, and surrounded by shards of broken porcelain. Roman recognized it as a vase he had painted for him years ago. He winced seeing small drops of blood surrounding the pieces. His eyes quickly scanned the room as Logan immediately tended to Patton.

“What happened, Patton?” Logan murmured as Patton curled up closer to him, sobs still wracking his body.

“I– I’m so sorry.” Each word sounded like it was forced out of his lungs and into the air. “I– I tried to clean up, I’m sorry–”

“Shh, Patton. It’s okay.” Janus knelt down beside him, carefully lifting Patton’s wrist to examine his hand. A long cut ran across his palm. Janus looked up at Roman and Virgil.

“There’s a first-aid kit in my office, as well as a broom and dustpan. Can one of you grab it?”

Virgil nodded wordlessly, exiting the room. Roman noticed Patton’s phone beside Patton on the ground, and reached over to pick it up.

“What did she say, Pat,” Roman asked, fear edging the quiet of his voice. The words seemed to stab at Patton and let out more sobs.

“She– she found out about everything,” Patton wheezed through tears. “The– the Rainbow Manor, where I am– she wants to take it all– she can’t take it all–”

“Patton, I need you to follow my breathing, okay?” Janus interrupted, motioning at their chest with their hand as they inhaled and exhaled. “Can you see my hand? I want you to try and follow along, okay?

Patton numbly nodded, trying to breathe through hiccups and sobs. Janus repeated the exercise with Patton for at least fifteen minutes, with Virgil returning halfway and Logan moving to sit in front of Patton to start tending to the cut. Virgil carefully swept around Roman, Janus, Logan, and Patton on the floor.

“Whatever she told you, it isn’t true,” Roman said after Patton’s breath had evened out. “She can’t touch you here, not with us around.”

“I– I know,” Patton sniffled. Logan finished bandaging Patton’s hand and offered him a tissue from the box on his desk. “She said so many awful things, but– but the scariest part is that she didn’t stop at just saying things.”

“What do you mean?” Logan murmured.

“She...she threatened to shut the Rainbow Manor down.”

“What?!” Roman shot up from the floor. “But– but she can’t–”

“You know my mom, Roman,” Patton whimpered. “She has connections all over the city. If she wanted to, she would find a way.”

“So why hasn’t she?” Janus asked quietly. A beat of silence. Patton brought his knees closer to his chest and buried his face between them.

“She– she wants a percentage of the donations,” Patton finally admitted.

“What the fuck,” Virgil growled, stopping in his tracks.

“I know! It’s– it’s impossible, I–” Another sob. Logan and Janus moved closer to him, with Janus putting their arm around his shoulder.

“What did you tell her?” Janus pressed on.

“I– I told her no! Even if I wanted to, I can’t, but– but what else can I do?” Patton looked at his bandaged hand and grimaced. “And of course she got mad, and I freaked out, and I knocked over the vase– god, Roman, I’m sorry about the vase–”

“The vase is replaceable,” is all Roman said. “You aren’t.”

Patton just nodded, looking up at the four of them in his office with teary eyes.

“What am I going to do?”

Everyone exchanged looks. Roman lowered himself back to the floor beside Patton and wrapped him in a warm hug.

“You’re not going to do anything,” Roman said firmly.

“Roman…”

“All your life, you’ve taken care of people like they were your family, Patton. Please, let your family take care of you.”

Patton sniffled, looking around him. Virgil, Logan, and Janus nodded with small smiles, moving closer to him and joining the embrace.

And Patton just nodded, dissolving into tears; except this time, Roman could feel the relief from them. He felt Patton melt in his touch and smiled to himself, a similar relief washing over him as well.

(And for a moment, just a brief moment, Patton was home.)

~*~

One week later…

“Keep your eyes closed…”

“Roman, I don’t know how many more walls I can keep bumping into!”

“Just a little longer, I promise!”

Patton giggled, letting himself be led by Roman through more halls. Then, Roman stopped him.

“Okay, you can open your eyes in 3...2–”

“I’m opening them now, I’m too excited!” Patton squealed, and then opened his eyes. Suddenly, a burst of colour flooded his vision.

“Surprise!” a chorus of voices exclaimed.

Patton broke into a wide smile, blinking to focus on the sight in front of him. He was standing in the recreation room, with a big banner hanging from the back wall reading, “Happy Birthday, Rainbow Manor!”. Beneath it was a table with a cake, which was surrounded by Janus, Virgil, and Logan, alongside a bunch of other teens Patton recognized. Even Jonah was there, wearing a small party hat with a confetti popper in his hands.

Patton felt tears well up in his eyes. “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe you remembered!”

“Of course, padré!” Roman grabbed Patton’s arm and led him around the table to stand in front of the cake. “Always normal for a family to celebrate the man who built their home!”

“Oh, Roman!” Patton leaned against his shoulder, sniffling. “It’s perfect.”

He then looked at Virgil, Logan, and Janus. “I can’t believe you guys set this all up, it must’ve taken forever!”

“Actually, it just took a day,” Logan hummed.

“And the cake doesn’t explode,” Virgil said with a small finger salute. “I checked.”

“Additionally, we understand that presents are customary at a party,” Logan continued. “So while our present is not materialistic, we do hope it suffices.”

“Oh?”

“Sir Nerds-A-Lot is trying to say that we’re pitching in to give you a few days off!” Roman declared. “We handled a few responsibilities over the weekend while you were home, and split your workload for the week ahead! Consider this the fabulous gift of time!”

“Oh you guys! You didn’t have to!”

“But we did, and we did so gladly,” Logan said with a nod.

“Also–” Janus leaned over to quietly whisper in Patton’s ear– “I took care of your mother.”

Patton frowned. “You...what? Is– is she…”

“She’s fine, but she won’t be bothering you for a long time.” Janus winked. “Let’s just say I know people too.”

Patton exhaled a breath he felt he was holding onto forever. He nodded graciously at Janus as Roman handed him a cake-cutter.

“Alright! Before you take the first slice, you gotta make a wish!” Roman motioned at the lit candles on the cake. Patton stepped forward, closed his eyes for a brief moment, and then blew them out.

Everyone cheered as Patton was surrounded by hugs and laughter. He felt Janus, Logan, Roman, and Virgil crowd around him as they started to help hand out cake to all the teens.

And in the back of his mind, his wish echoed in his head.

‘I hope to always be able to share this home with my family.’

#sanders sides #sanders sides fanfic #sanders sides fic #DLAMP #platonic DLAMP #patton sanders #logan sanders #roman sanders #virgil sanders #janus sanders #hurt/comfort #angst #thomas sanders fic #everything gets worse before it gets better :p

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i-did · 3 years

Note

hey! I hope those aftg asks aren’t getting tiring lol but I was wondering if you had any thoughts on the recent fandom treatment of Kevin, which seems to be mainly seeing him as a victim mistreated both in canon by the other foxes & by nora himself? Like I remember in the earlier days of aftg (like maybe around 2016? 2017??) there definitely wasn’t this kind of focus or view of Kevin & I feel like he was treated with somewhat more nuance then? And this could be related to the growing hate for Nora since then but you don’t see people say the same things about the other foxes?? This is a very messy ask lol but I’m genuinely so confused about this trend esp because Kevin seems to be the only fox (as far ive seen anyways) that people are holding up as a victim w/o any nuance

I have a lot of fun answering these, I just sometimes take a minute to get to them lol

Okay so I definitely know what you're talking about with the Kevin thing. The first major factor is that AFTG has finished coming you years ago, and Nora has not actively engaged with the fandom since 2016. I came around into AFTG in 2017 as a reader, and looking at the fanart. Mostly by then you see the race headcanons locked into place and the beginning of the split between fanon and canon. Without more canon, fanon content starts to develop as whoever is more influential the fan creators (fic authors, fan artists) start to do things that trend. As a time passes in a fandom, it tends to split into niches, people who see things a certain way and want to see more of that follow each other and gain followers who agree with them.

There is definitely a Kevin centric niche that thinks those things. I don’t think there was as much focus in general on Kevin back in 2017, but I also was pretty new. But there were no extreme Anti-Andrew fans, back then it was “you are either a fan of Nicky or a fan of Aaron.” People didnt have “dni choking apologists” on their blogs.

I think choking discourse is a good example of the rise of Kevin. Andrew must fall for Kevin to rise. There are kandreil fans that genuinely like all three, and some ace/aro Kevin fans that like him just as he is, but a lot of Kevin centric content I see now on tumblr is about how Andrew is the real villain of AFTG for choking Kevin, despite Kevin violently choking Neil in book 1.

Back in 2018 they weren't pitted against the other and I think the whole “you can only like one character or the other” thing is stupid imo. I like Nicky more than Aaron, but I still think they're both interesting characters. Ive seen a lot of “Kevin was only a victim” takes, and in fact got cyber bullied for a while by some people who thought I was too mean to Kevin in some of my HC by implying he also had some power in the nest and likely hurt others, and that he feels guilt over it. :/ but there is also a similar niche with “you can't blame Aaron for his homophobia, his mom was abusive, and she likely made him that way.”

It's the most similar discourse trend I've seen to the Kevin discourse. It’s a similar lack of nuance, and I think people inflict it their favorite character because they don't want to have a ‘problematic fav.’ Aaron is canonly homophobic, Neil says directly after him and Andrew ‘come out’ to the others, that he was waiting to see the same grief Aaron gave Nicky over his sexuality. It doesn't mean he can't be also a good character or a person someone likes, in fact well written characters have dimensions and flaws.

Which that whole mess is similar to the whole Kevin thing. I think people fall in love with the idea of Nora’s characters, or maybe the fanon characters–but not the real characters. Which is also why they say the author hates them, because they got written to do bad things or not be in the story as much, they defend these characters as if they were real people who need defending, need to be saved from being erased. These characters become “their character.”

I think this also happens because people kin characters and identify with them a lot, so when I said “Kevin was in a position in power in the nest too, even in second place” and then receive threats for how I personally hurt someone who's a CSA survivor because of my Kevin HC I'm like (o – o). I think these people project so hard onto Kevin and design him in their mind, they feel as if character flaw HCs or depictions of Kevin struggling and being mean are personal insults, or at least very personally insulting. And I don't want to sound like an ass, but like my Kevin isn't the same as their Kevin, my Kevin is my Kevin.

I see skinny art of Andrew and art of Neil as white or ginger, these don’t align with my personal HC’s about them, but like that's what I chose to go with. Nora uses language that makes me believe Neil has dark auburn hair, but if people want him to be ginger idc. In canon he was written with the intent to be white, I ignore that because I think him being mixed adds more depth to his character (as well as me being tired of only white mlm, and have updated my reading list). Andrew wasn’t imagined by Nora to be fat either, but I HC him as like a mini muscle bear instead of Toby Hemingway.

I keep the canon intent in mind to remind myself how she actually saw them and how that can color canon and how other people are allowed to see Neil as white and Andrew as skinny. Like I understand why people get annoyed over other peoples hc’s, I feel similarly sometimes. But like at the end of the day, you just gotta move out of that fandom niche and into a new one or just ignore the post.

#ask #aftg #all for the game #tfc #the foxhole court #fandom politics #fandom culture #fandom psychology #mailob

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peachy-panic · 3 years

Text

Only Temporary: Sebastian Tate

Hello. I was completely blown away by the positive response I got on the first piece of Jaime’s story (title under construction). Thank you to everyone who had a kind word to say about it! You made me really happy I made the mildly frightening choice to post.

In the interest of acclimating to the no-rules, freedom-to-post-out-of-order structure of this community, I wanted to introduce a new piece of the puzzle this time, with a new character that will come into play later.

Also, this piece goes into a little bit of the details, but for frame of reference on the BBU-adjacent thing: this story takes place in a not-so-distant future of the BBU, where WRU has undergone some changes. I look forward to exploring this world building more as I go.

Anyway, I’m rambling again. Thanks for reading. Here it is:

WARNINGS: General BBU warnings, talk of institutionalized slavery, classism, and general terribleness of large corporations. Referenced past homophobia and rough parental relationships, briefly implied/referenced non-con.

When Sebastian reflects on the day he graduated from med school, a sort of emptiness is the memory that first bobs to the surface. Among the cheers and camera flashes in the crowd, white coats and proud smiles, what Sebastian recalls most vividly from that day is looking out into the sea of parents and families and people there to support their loved ones on one of the biggest days of their lives, and not seeing a single person that had come for him.

What should have been one of the happiest moments of his life had been quickly overshadowed by the sinking feeling that none of it mattered as much as it would have if he had someone to share it with. Like there was something so fundamentally wrong with his life, that even something as objectively good and right and decent as becoming a doctor could be dulled over into a feeling of nothingness.

Perhaps, he thinks in hindsight, that moment had been foreshadowing for the following months ahead of him.

Watching rejection after rejection pour in from his top residency programs had felt like nothing short of his own personalized nightmare. He had spent several nights in a row on the phone with Alex, his undergrad roommate and only friend, clamoring back from the edge of many a panic attack, spiraling into all-out existential dread about the future and the past and what all of it meant for him if he couldn’t land an internship, let alone a real job out of school. To his credit, Alex never gave up hope in his friend. Or at least, he did a decent job hiding it if he did. Which was probably exactly what Sebastian needed to get through that particularly dark time in his life, and a good reminder of what a solid friend he had. Even if it was a party of two.

Unfortunately, Sebastian did not have the same faith in himself.

He was able to keep up some facade of optimism as his top five were picked off one by one. Telling himself, despite his devastation, that they were a pretty far reach, anyway. Even with good academic standing, it was famously no walk in the park to land yourself at John Hopkins or Mayo as a first-year. He even maintained a brave face as his first few safety programs reached capacity and moved forward without his name on the roster.

It wasn’t until he received his final rejection letter from some internal medicine place in Bumfuck, Idaho that he felt himself slip into dangerous territory. Sebastian knew himself well enough to know his own depressive patterns by then, and he knew it was only exponential decay from there.

Rock bottom came, as it did, in the wee hours of the night, after a full bottle of wine. Alone in his small apartment, surrounded by half-packed boxes with no destination, Sebastian found himself sprawled out on the floor with his laptop hot against his thighs. He couldn’t have explained why he opted for a privacy browser, but something about it allowed him to justify the words that he typed into the search bar.

It was a new low, and one he had sworn to himself he would never stoop to. Yet there he was.

He gave himself a moment to reconsider, to back out of what was undoubtedly a morally-gray train wreck waiting to happen as his thumb hovered over the enter key. And then the alcohol decided to override his moral compass.

Facility Care is the open secret of the medical profession. It comes with its fair share of stigma, and rightfully so, but it is notoriously easy to break into and pays a decent wage.

There are two types of people who end up stooping to that kind of employment. More often than not, it consists of doctors and nurses who had their licenses revoked or suspended somewhere along the line and needed a way back in. As far as Sebastian understood, they aren’t terribly ridgid about the particulars of each circumstance. After all, in the eyes of the law, the patients they would be treating are a price tag away from being entirely expendable.

The other percentage of Facility Care workers, and the reason Sebastian found himself staring at his too-bright computer screen with a sinking feeling of dread that night, are young medical graduates who find themselves in a tough spot. It isn’t difficult to spell out the logic behind that one when you open the WRU CAREERS tab on the home page and see the bright white words printed across the top of the screen:

LOAN FORGIVENESS.

It is shamelessly predatory and aggressively capitalistic, but Sebastian supposes that particular exploitation is pretty far down on the list of transgressions for an institution of legalized slavery. A few broke and hopeless medical students were hardly going to keep the Powers That Be up at night when they were able to rest easy under the weight of hundreds of thousands of stolen lives.

The whole thing is part of the massive PR overhaul the company did a few years back. In a world that was slowly inching toward civil activism and with the accessibility of platforms like social media to hold them accountable, WRU had to adapt to survive. Adaptation, in this case, took the form of changing the barest of minimums in order to keep themselves above board — to the public eye, anyway. Anyone who dares to take a closer look at the policy changes can see that it’s bullshit.

Changing ownership conditions to a rent-by-contract basis isn’t the humanitarian move they try to paint it as. In the end, it probably just equals out to more money in the company’s pocket when they can get more return on their “investments,” and a larger chance of exploitation for the people being moved around.

Getting rid of the Romantic division is an entirely meaningless gesture when they are still loaning out human beings with no legal rights and the inability to say “no.”

And offering an open job market with good wages and healthcare options to lower class individuals is a pretty convenient way to mute the backlash.

Essentially, you can tie a system of slavery and abuse up in a bow and make it pretty on the outside, but at the end of the day, it’s still fucking slavery.

Not that he has any room to criticize now. Now that he’s one of them.

In the end, Seb tries to justify his decision a few different ways. He is, after all, more or less a young man alone in the world. The odds are stacked against him and have been for a while. With only his own two legs to stand on, the only force stronger than his internal ambition is his instinct for survival, and he’s been running on those fumes for longer than he can count.

He had lasted less than two months under his parents’ roof after he came out of the closet at eighteen. It wasn’t exactly a surprise for anyone involved; Sebastian’s parents had known about (and subsequently bottled) his… urges… since he was in high school. Probably before that, if he is being honest with himself. And Sebastian, for his part, had spent the better part of his teenage years mentally preparing for the inevitable. He can recall long, late nights he had spent crying into his pillow and the perfectly-scripted ‘coming out’ speeches he recited to his mirror when he was one-hundred percent sure his parents were asleep.

Of course, none of the preparation had been anywhere near adequate when he actually found himself wilting beneath the heat of his father’s glare, the weight of his mother’s grief.

But. He had recovered. That is the point he tries to remember when the memories sting fresh beneath his skin, even all these years later. He has more-than proven himself to be a survivor. He has worked harder than anyone he knows for every scholarship, every grant, every dollar to put himself through school. Sacrificed nights out and real relationships for night shifts at shitty diners and long weekends cramming for exams. It hadn’t been easy, but he considers it the price he had to pay for his independence. For freedom, to live the life as the person he is meant to be, despite his unfortunate odds. He spent years telling himself it would be worth it. That one day, his hard work would pay off.

He can’t stop now.

Sebastian doesn’t have the luxury of taking time off to reroute when his navigation has gone amiss. He is walking the precarious line of rapidly accruing interest and student loans and a dwindling savings account, and there is no safety net below him.

Beggars can’t be choosers, and as it turns out, beggars sometimes have to compromise their moral integrity in order to survive.

It’s only temporary.

That is the mantra that gets him through the (half-drunken) application process and the (disturbingly lax) interview process. It is a job. One job. In the medical field, though the details are up for debate, and it is real-life money for rent and food and a savings that will hopefully be sizable enough to get him where he really wanted to be. Which is… really, anywhere else.

He can do ‘temporary.’ And perhaps, some misguided part of him thinks he can do some genuine good from the inside, too. ‘Be the change you want to see’ and all that.

It is a far jump from the floor of his apartment, sloshed and exhausted and desperate, to the cold, sharp reality of walking into his place of employment on his first day of work. Ironically, it feels a lot like an echo of the emptiness from his graduation day.

‘Sterile’ doesn’t quite cover it. ‘Sterile’ is the expectation of any well-respected medical establishment, but the inside of the facility walls has been wiped clean of far more than bacteria and germs. It is completely devoid of humanity. The long corridors that connect the medical wing to the general ward are windowless and dimly lit by flickering fluorescent panels that had make his head pound for the entirety of his first week.

He is given an office, though it is a term he, himself, might use loosely, as it is more akin to what was probably a storage closet before the old prison had been converted into the state’s training headquarters. It leaves him just enough space for a small desk and two chairs. On his first day, he asks if it is okay to bring in some personal items to spruce the place up. The older, balding doctor who had been assigned to show him around merely shrugs, and Sebastian decides to take that as a yes.

The small, pink-framed photo of a six-year-old Sebastian Tate in his grandfather’s white coat and an old-school stethoscope around his neck is hardly enough to make the place cozy from the corner of his desk, but it’s a good enough reminder of why he has to make this work.

‘It’s only temporary.’

‘Be the change you want to see.’

He will do his best.

#Sebastian Tate #bbu #like bbu adjacent?#tw: human trafficking #tw: slavery #implied noncon #whump #Do No Harm: Jaime & Sebastian

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itoldsunset · 3 years

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rewatching ipytm episode 2: thoughts

apologies in advance for this very messy, very long bullet scene-by-scene commentary!

summary: this was a very hard episode to watch and rewatch. the frustration with teh is real, the hurt for oh-aew is real. but the fear of change and abandonment, and the fear of admitting your own insecurities, is SO coming of age and i love that we get to see teh grappling with what happens when the idealistic vision you had for your life slowly starts to crumble.

also, this episode (and possibly the entirety of part 2) was 100% the writers' and p'meen's love letter to comm arts students/graduates, and even though i am a total outsider to that world, it really touched my heart to see the diversity of experiences and struggles reflected here.

i love that we see how much closer teh has become with jai and khim!! this doesn't translate in the subs, but i thought it was interesting how teh used respectful pronouns with them when he was a first-year and now for the most part uses rude (familiar) pronouns with them as a second-year, even though they're still technically his seniors. i think it goes to show how close they've become since he first joined the drama club.

goy was so fucking CUTE in that scene when she said "oh, lots of boys are peeking at me, i'm shy" i think i'm in love 😭 also the cinematography of that scene!!

this episode does such a great job at making you feel uncomfortable along with the characters. i hated how uncomfortable teh was at the birthday party, and i could feel how out of place he felt there.

when mangpong talks about how easy it is for celebrities to make money and teh is clearly offended by that and speaks up against it (which results in yet another awkward uncomfortable moment), i feel like he's speaking up on behalf of khim who we later realize is basically his idol and the person he identifies the most with. i feel like p'meen and the writing team are really trying to represent the lives of people who go into communication arts, especially those who go in with an interest in performing arts. and for me that scene with mangpong communicates two things: 1) the defensiveness that comes with having your chosen career path misunderstood or reduced into something that's easy money, and 2) how close-knit and protective the drama club is of each other, because teh speaking up in defense of actors to me feels like he's defending this identity they all share as people who are struggling to make it in the industry.

oh-aew is SO sweet. getting a tattoo that resembles your partner's name gives me so much anxiety, but i guess he's 19 and has always been sure of his feelings so it does make sense for him. at first glance teh's reaction really just makes it sound like he's against tattoos, drinking, all that, like he's super old-fashioned, but it's not REALLY about the tattoo and we learn that later when they have their big fight and he blows up with all the nitpicky little things he's noticed about all the ways oh-aew has changed. i thought it was so cute how au basically showed off his tattoo to open the conversation for oh-aew to show teh his tattoo though. we love a supportive friend group!!!

"this tattoo is pretty. thank you." this is teh being as genuine as he can, as someone who is seriously not in touch with his own feelings and can't understand why he's so upset at oh-aew getting a tattoo. because again it's not the tattoo itself that's the problem, but what it represents for teh, which is oh-aew's world slowly expanding to include people and things that are foreign to teh, and he worries that one day that world won't have a place for him anymore.

drunk oh-aew speaking mandarin, and teh taking care of him!!! the only fluff we got all episode and i will cherish it forever and ever, like the aquarium scene from episode one. the fact that teh brought over the stuffed animal, kissed oh-aew on the forehead, and then decided to sleep over on the floor next to him? making him kimchi jjigae? so soft!! our boy has got a lot of issues to work through but he loves oh-aew for sure.

the scene where oh-aew is receiving feedback on his performance from his professor is so... oof. the fact that his classmate got positive feedback for portraying a gay man in a way that isn't stereotypical (read: masculine? i wonder?) and the fact that oh-aew was critiqued for unsuccessfully portraying the tone and mannerisms of a man who doesn't understand gay people? it's a bit subtler than what we hear from the casting director but i swear it's the same shit. and it really doesn't surprise me at all to see oh-aew not believe in himself and his ability to perform because of it.

teh saying "both of us" and being so excited about their casting opportunity!! 😭 and also, khim being such a sweetheart and helping them get this opportunity in the first place!

the contrast with how happy oh-aew looked when the advertising professor told him he had the right answer, compared to how torn down he looked after being critiqued and told he got a C by his acting professor (in front of the whole class!!). which tbh for me is subtle commentary on how much influence professors have on students' self-confidence and whether they believe in their own ability to succeed in their field.

the commentary on sexism and homophobia in the thai entertainment industry!! khim being told she looked too old, not smart enough, not believable, honestly all coded ways of saying she didn't fit in with the beauty standard they were going for. and while khim is saying this we see oh-aew is already getting nervous, because he's already had his confidence shaken by his experiences in class. and then when we get to the scene where the casting director says he's too girly and asks him to act more manly, we see oh-aew's mood shift completely, and honestly it hurts to watch. pp did such an amazing job here because i felt it, like the way oh-aew's eyes change, and then he swallows right after, and how unsettled he sounds trying to deliver the line again after hearing that critique.

oh-aew listening to khim tell teh about how hard it's been for her to break into the industry is so impactful, because you can already tell what he's thinking. is this really worth it? do i want this enough to endure people telling me over and over again i'm not masculine enough for them? is that going to be me in the future, being rejected from hundreds of castings and still not making it?

when teh hugs khim and says "we will get through this together," it's so clear that he identifies with her struggle. teh is someone who has worked his ass off to get to where he is (remember his fight with his mom where she said he lost sleep and was getting sick from all the studying he did?), and he sees himself in khim and her passion and ambition. meanwhile, we see oh-aew really doubting whether this is the right path for him.

i love how teh immediately asked if oh-aew was okay after oh-aew told him about what the casting director said, and how teh reassured him that he liked oh-aew the way he is. it's like, he so clearly cares for oh-aew and loves him so much and sometimes knows how to show it well, and then other times just fucks it up. it's so real??

oh-aew deciding to change majors three months into it is a very oh-aew thing to do, and what i mean by that is, this is a character who is super in touch with himself and his feelings and trusts in himself to make the right decisions. he's not afraid to change his mind (remember when he was testing out his feelings for bas and teh and then turned down bas once he knew?), he's bold and goes for what he wants. and i envy that about his character so much. but it makes me sad to know that the thing that was making him nervous during this scene was the fact that he was worried about how teh would react. like he went through all that questioning and critique himself, to finally discover his answer, only to now have to worry about whether his partner will accept him.

teh, on the other hand, has had his whole life planned out since forever. he feels the need to know and control everything. he has so much fear and insecurity. and he is stubborn and doesn't believe in giving up, which he believes is what oh-aew is doing. and on top of that, he sees this as another way in which he is losing oh-aew. one more thing oh-aew has in common with his friend group that doesn't include him. one more way that he's becoming a smaller part of oh-aew's world. oh-aew looked so small in the bathtub scene and i just wanted to hold him 😔

the 8 month time skip is a little jarring because of all the things we don't get to see, but i guess it makes sense if teh has been bottling up his insecurities about their relationship that it would all blow up in everyone's face in the way that it did at the dinner scene.

it was interesting to me how teh hesitated when oh-aew texted that he would join them for dinner, like teh didn't want oh-aew to come along with his drama club. and then once oh-aew arrives at the restaurant, we see that teh isn't totally happy either. it's like as much as teh feels like an outsider in oh-aew's world, he seems to also see oh-aew as an outsider in his own world too. and when top says he wanted to get into comm arts at anantasart but he didn't get in, we see teh's expression and it's like, a reminder that he gave up that spot for oh-aew, that teh didn't pass the admissions exam either, and that oh-aew who did pass has now "given up" on it (in teh's eyes) to pursue another major. it's like teh also feels betrayed on behalf of all the performing arts kids who are struggling to make their passion into a career.

i feel like i sort of get why teh said all that shit about oh-aew at the dinner table now. i'm not excusing it at all, that was super shitty of him. but i wonder if it's like, this is a thing they deal with in the performing arts, people giving up because it's so hard to make it in the industry. and you watch your friends leave one by one, and it keeps causing more and more doubt in yourself about whether you can make it. and now that teh sees oh-aew as someone who's given up, he doesn't want that energy at the dinner table with his drama friends, like he wants to protect them from that and keep up with this "we can get through this together" mentality that he keeps saying. so it's easier for him to try to dismiss it as oh-aew's personality flaw, rather than a legitimate change in career path, because he's worried about how it might affect his own friends in the drama club. and we see how protective teh is of khim, when he says "what the fuck did you just say?" like he really shares an identity with his drama club and it's clear he thinks oh-aew doesn't understand it or belong there.

needless to say, i was extremely stressed that entire dinner scene which i think means the writers, p'meen, and the actors did an excellent job.

their fight scene was really amazingly done and i am just stunned by teh's response when oh-aew asks him "what if this is who i really am, would you not like me anymore?" and teh thinks about it for a bit, and says "maybe." that's him being genuine, he's not trying to hurt oh-aew in saying that, and we can see him internally asking himself that question. but he doesn't know the answer, because he can't even be honest with himself about why he's upset at oh-aew. so he says the first thing he thinks which is an honest "maybe," and then he immediately regrets his words, and at some point he's going to have to learn that he can't just say the first thing that comes to mind, when other people's feelings are at stake. also, the fucking piano that plays? the violin? goddamn.

khim's character is really here to teach teh, and all of us, some life lessons. she is so real. her struggles are so real. life is fucking hard, and it's not fair, and no matter how hard you work or try you can't have it all. "the conditions for our lives are not the same" holy shit yes. she wants to take care of her family and her dog, she can't just think of herself. i feel like teh, who comes from a relatively modest background but has always had hoon as a father figure to support his mom, probably doesn't feel that same burden.

teh being frustrated and going to the bridge was beautiful. the crying hug scene at the dorm was so beautiful.

i love that in the end, teh finally owns up to his own insecurities and apologizes and admits he was wrong. of course, this was after oh-aew reached out to him first. i think it's totally realistic that we see his growth happening kind of slowly, but before the series ends he's going to need to be the first one to reach out, because oh-aew can't hold all of that on his own.

the last score when they hug under the moonlight, i love it!!

#ipytm #i promised you the moon #ipytm spoilers #textpost #i hope someone sees this lmao i know it's 3am dfslkjghfgjlk

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slowlyflowing · 3 years

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Putting my two cents on the discussion happening lately because there is one specific thing that has been bugging me and I need to get it off my chest

The core of the discussion is mostly around whether or not choice has any place into an otherkin identity, or if linktypes-turned-kintypes are a thing, and it’s not what I’m interested in talking about. I don’t feel it’s my place to make assessments on this. I don’t want to focus on voluntary change, but involuntary.

Because I have also seen people imply, or outright say, that if you are otherkin, you must have always been otherkin. Now, I would describe myself as being born nonhuman, because I cannot remember a time when I wasn’t, and my general reaction to the previous statement is what. No, really, what.

The only constant in the universe is change. Nothing is still, nothing will be the same forever, and it applies to matter as much as it does to mind. People change. Small things change all the time, but sometimes huge things change. It’s very rare, but it can happen, and of these major changes, the vast majority are in my experience involuntary. For every hundred, every thousand of people whose identity will never change, there is one, somewhere, who woke up one day and realized a core part of themselves was not the same as before. I’m not talking about people being misguided. I’m talking about people who believe that the only explanation for their experiences is involuntary, inexplicable change.

An example outside of nonhumanity? I’m queer. 99.9999% of people have an overall fixed identity when it comes to gender and sexuality. Even if that identity is inherently fluid, like genderfluid, it’s still a specific identity. But in my years of reading about the experiences of other queer people, there have been those few odd outs who said that one day, something changed. And they don’t know why or how, and often are pretty distressed by it. Like genderfluid people who one day said they were not genderfluid anymore - not because they misidentified themselves before, but because their gender was legitimately fluid for years and then one day it was not.

These experiences are not talked about much, not just because they’re very rare, but also because people worry that if we admit that sometimes we can change, then our oppressors will co-opt those narratives against us. And this misses two points. First, that those narratives almost always involve involuntary change, not voluntary, not conversion therapy or any other abuse. And second, it is not those people’s fault if their experiences can be co-opted. No more than someone who fits the flamboyant gay stereotype is the reason homophobia exists. It’s a rare narrative, and one that (understandably, I would add) makes many people uncomfortable. But it happens.

Returning to our original topic, why can’t someone become otherkin? Again, involuntarily. Of course, identity is more malleable in childhood than in adulthood and such a change is most likely to happen in the first years of life. But why can’t an otherkin identity be developed? The definition of otherkin that I know is summed up “involuntarily identifying as nonhuman creature”. It says nothing of how and why, and it also doesn’t put any age limit on identity development.

In the end, if someone told me, “I was human until I was five, but then something happened and I started being a wolf”, I’d believe them. If they told me it happened when they were ten, I still would. And if they told me it happened when they were thirty, well of course I would be somewhat skeptical of it not just being a late awakening, but I don’t see any reason why it should be completely impossible. Saying that the mind (in the case of psychological otherkin) cannot ever change the way one perceives themselves is, in my opinion, greatly reductive of the complexity of the human brain.

On a spiritual perspective, yes, I’d say if you believe you are otherkin for something like reincarnation then you pretty much had to be born this way, by definition. But I also find it a little... wishful, to think the soul may not change either. If you tell me, “I am a wolf and a cat and a deer because those were my past lives and they influenced my soul” you are telling me your soul has changed. Maybe once you were just wolf, and then you were reborn a cat and your soul changed to be wolf and cat, and did it again with deer and now you are wolf and cat and deer. And if you are reborn again as a unicorn, can you tell me with absolute certainty your soul will not carry over the mark of humanity? Maybe the soul cannot change in one lifetime, but over the course of many it might change too.

I’m a polymorph and genderfluid, change is by definition part of me. I have a degree in a scientific subject, and I couldn’t in my right mind have gotten it without knowing one day the entire frame with which I view the world may be proven wrong, just like countless others have. Change happens. If it will never happen to you, then that is good and valid and a position I respect. If you tell me it will never happen to the majority of us, I also fully respect that. But the idea of otherkin being always innate, always something that just is and that can’t ever be developed at some point in life, then I’m sorry but our visions of the world are just fundamentally different.

Of course, if you are of the “born this way” kind of otherkin, it makes sense to prefer the company of others like you, because you can relate better to their experiences. But denying the existence of those who became, be it imprinting or unconscious coping mechanism (origin theories that have been accepted for ages), be it when they were five or when they were fifteen, is in my opinion a redefinition of otherkin that reeks of either elitism or deep rooted insecurity.

#otherkin #otherkind #fictionkin #fictionkind #alterhuman

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not-all-dead · 3 years

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"It’s not a surprise when the Chief of Police comes out. There have been betting pools for years, and the announcement is met with mostly indifference. What is a surprise, however, is the interview that comes out alongside the announcement. The interview that is complete with a photoshoot of Lin Beifong in civilian clothes, talking about the challenges of her position. No one can remember the last time the Chief has given an interview, and the photo becomes the talk of the town."

How do you think the interview goes? What would Lin say?

link to (what i believe was) the original post of this! with some amazing art that VERY much helped me write this :DD (by @mgthejerkbender)

i was originally just gonna write a dialogue or notes for this but uh- i got a little carried away so here’s a 3687 word fic of the interview oops

CW: implications of past trauma (mentions of r@pe/s*xual assa*lt, public humiliation, not graphic at all), homophobia, sexism

fic under the cut :)

Lin walked into the room in a soft green turtleneck and dark brown pants that almost looked black without the light. There was sound equipment set up all over the place, with two armchairs in the middle of it all. A desk sat over to the side, a typewriter and paper sitting atop it. Quite a few people were rushing around, making sure that everything was in place for the broadcast. She watched a young woman sit at the desk, prepping the typewriter to transcribe the entire thing.

“Oh good, you’re here,” Lin turned to see a man in his early forties standing with a small journal behind her.

He wore a plain suit with a pale orange tie, his greying hair slicked back neatly. His eyes flitted around the room, checking things briefly for himself before focusing on Lin. He opened the notebook to a page about a quarter of the way through and smiled at Lin, nodding at the chairs behind her.

“Care to sit?” he asked, moving toward the chairs.

She took the seat farthest from where they’d just been standing, shifting to get comfortable while she waited for him to sit and get things rolling. She didn’t want to admit it, but her heart was racing. She hadn’t done anything like this is ages, especially not so casually. The topic of discussion also made her nervous, both because her job was something she rarely spoke of with anyone outside a professional context, and because of the announcement that would come with the interview. She’d encountered plenty of bigoted people in the past, and had no doubt that her officially coming out would only press them to question her position more than usual.

She picked idly at the fuzzballs on her turtleneck until the man sitting beside her cleared his throat. Her head snapped up to look at him, her body tensing briefly before seeing that he was testing the microphones. She sighed and relaxed slightly, speaking into the microphone placed before her when the sound technician prompted her to do so. Once everything seemed to be in place and ready to go, the broadcast started.

“Welcome, listeners, to tonight’s special program. I’m your host, Kaja Posicopolis, here with our esteemed Chief of Police, Lin Beifong. So, Chief, how are you on this fine night?” he started, putting on his radio voice.

“Good, I’m good,” Lin responded, leaning slightly forwards in her seat.

“That’s good to hear. I think I’ll launch right into our questions if you don’t mind, we’ve got a lot to get through tonight,” Lin nodded when he looked over to her, giving him the go ahead.

“Why don’t we start with something positive. What’s your favourite thing about your position as Chief? What about the job brings you the most joy?” he turned to watch her while waiting for her answer.

She looked at the floor for a moment, thinking before speaking.

“I think I’d have to say getting to help people. Ever since I was young I’ve wanted to protect others as much as possible, and being Chief makes that a lot easier and a lot more… legal,” he joined her when she chuckled lightly, but her smile only lasted a moment.

“Of course, I’m not perfect, and there are always times when things go wrong. I can’t say that those times don’t affect me, but I try to think of the people we as a force have helped over the years and that keeps me going,” she took a deep breath and looked to Kaja as he glanced at his notepad.

“That leads right into my next question; how do you do it? Not even your infamous mother was Chief for as long as you’ve been, and her time was already impressive. You’ve given so much to Republic City already, why, and how, do you keep giving?” there was a look of wonder and admiration on his face when he finished the question.

“I grew up in Republic City. It always has been, and will be, my home. And who doesn’t want to protect their home? I think that as long as I live here, I’ll be working to do anything in my power to help the city. I hate watching neighborhoods suffer… actually, I’m working on a plan with President Moon at the moment with the hopes of helping out the poorer parts of the city, providing homes for the homeless, all that good stuff. I just want to see Republic City thriving, and I want to help it get to that point. As I said before, it’s my home; everyone here is part of a community, a family, if you will, and that means everything to me,” Lin leaned back, resting against the cushion behind her, setting her right foot on her left knee.

“That’s a beautiful sentiment, thank you. I love the idea of the city being one big family, and that project sounds like it’ll be very good for the future of Republic City,” Kaja turned his gaze back to his notes, stopping the conversation briefly.

“The next question I have here is less uppity; what has your biggest struggle been with regards to your job?”

“That’s a hard one,” she paused. “I’ve had many struggles with work over my years as Chief, but I think of everything that’s happened… being a woman, and a queer one at that, has definetly taken it’s toll. Other things have been more directly challenging, but that’s been present since day one.”

“Would you care to elaborate on that?” he prompted leaning slightly towards her.

She inhaled and held her breath for a split second before sighing lightly.

“Sure, why not,” she gave a small smile to Kaja before starting.

“When I was much younger, just starting out in the force, I could already see the inherent bias against women that so many male officers held. My mother wasn’t immune to their verbal attacks, though she would give them a good… sparring match, lets say, if they ever so much as laid a finger on her. After a few times, that generally stopped happening, but people would still talk. The number of disgusting, awful things I heard coming from some of those men…” she huffed and shifted in her seat, putting one elbow on her armrest and resting her head on her hand.

“Anyway, I started to pay attention to every little thing. I noticed how many male politicians talked down to my mother, and not because of her blindness. Even a few of the men on our own council at the time would treat her as less-than for no apparent reason.

“I saw it happening in my own life and career, too. How my male counterparts got the promotion before I was even considered, despite performing just as well as them, if not better. How I was never asked for input on supposedly collective decisions or plans, and if I was or tried to interject, I was almost always dismissed. It seemed like any man of higher or equal rank to me thought I was some… assistant to bring him coffee and reports and not do any actual work.

“Seeing that attitude so often pissed me off. I made it my mission to prove myself beyond what was necessary. I wanted to show them that I could do anything they could just as well, sometimes even better. My work paid off eventually and I began to climb the ranks, not letting myself rest for a second. And I wanted to help people as well, of course, but it started out more as wanting to teach those bastards a lesson,” she moved again, uncrossing her legs and leaning forward on her elbows.

“Once I became Chief, a lot of people seemed determined to put me down. Practically every man, be he politician or merchant on the street, told me something insinuating that I was handed the position just because my mother was Chief before me. Every time I wanted to yell at them, to show them records of how hard I’d worked to get there, how much harder I’d had to work than most of my colleagues. With the politicians and other major figureheads, how much harder I’d had to work than they probably had.

“It was frustrating, but I got used to it. It was a constant that came with working a so-called, and I’m not making this up, it’s been said directly to my face before, ‘Man’s job’,” she stopped for a moment and looked over at Kaja, who was staring at her in disbelief.

She couldn’t help but let out a small laugh at his expression before looking back down and continuing.

“There was also the issue of my queerness,” she shook her head and took a deep breath, sitting back as she continued.

“I started working as a proper officer when I was about eighteen. Within my first year working, I was-,” she closed her eyes and clenched her teeth for a second.

“I had an encounter with a man, an older officer who was overseeing the training group I was a part of. He tried to initiate certain… activities with me, none of which I wanted to partake in. I did manage to get rid of him and filed a report against him, but it wasn’t the last time it happened.

“I was a pretty regular customer at a few of the underground bars for people like me at the time. I did my best to hide my face when I left, but there were always times I was careless, or somebody saw me in the seconds I let my guard down. Usually it was no big deal, but occasionally it was someone from work. Once, it was that man.

“He found me at work the next day and asked me about it. Yelled at me, really. He tried to make it seem like that’s why I’d denied him, and the names he called me weren’t pretty to say the least. He started to physically attack me, throwing punch after punch and not giving me the slightest chance to fight back.

“After that day, I stopped going to those bars altogether. The first time I went back to one was actually just a few years ago. I started dating Tenzin a few years later, and though people weren’t so outwardly expressive of their opinions on my relationships, the disapproval was still present.

“By the time Tenzin and I split up, I think some people still suspected my queerness, but it wasn’t a widely adopted theory. I had my fair share of men approach me, some with better intentions than others, and turned down most of them. Some of them didn’t react all that well, and I ended up filing several more reports. I don’t think any of them actually got charged, though.

“I entertained short romances with some men, some women too. Nothing stuck, not really anyway. I kept every relationship very quiet, including those with men, just for the sake of privacy. When I was with women, it was also to avoid getting hate-crimed, but I really did prefer to keep at least some things private.

“In the context of work, there were also challenges. That first superior to try getting at me like that must’ve talked, telling anyone who would listen about my excursions to the underground bars. People looked at me oddly in just about any shared workspace there was, though a few times I made friends because of it. Those were always good times, even if few and far between.

“Some people just gave a judgemental stare or vaguely rude comment every so often, but a few others took it further. Much further,” she looked up to the ceiling as she recalled another story.

“I had a supervisor when I was probably about, oh, twenty seven or so. He was a few ranks below my mother, and I one below him. He decided that one day it would be absolutely hysterical to cover my desk in obscene printed images of women I didn’t recognize, along with toys of a certain nature. I was mortified when I came in and saw the spectacle. The worst part was that almost everyone working in that part of the building at the time laughed with him, and those who didn’t weren’t exactly helpful.

“I didn’t come back to work for a week after that. It was awful, his stupid prank making me so shamed of who I was, who I loved. I know now that my loving both women and men isn’t a bad thing, and is simply part of me. It was harder to accept that, to accept myself, when I saw people like him in positions of power over me.

“I kept working though, and there was never an incident quite like that one again. A few others were more directly hateful than most, but it was easier to deal with. As with people treating me as less because of my gender, I got used to it,” she turned to Kaja, a hint of guilt on her face after talking for so long.

He shook his head, disbelief still spread across his face. His eyes flitted back and forth between floor tiles as he searched for the right words to respond.

“That sounds awful. I’m so sorry you had to deal with people like that,” he looked back up at Lin.

“So am I,” she scoffed, her fingers picking at her turtleneck again.

There was a small silence before Kaja looked back down at his notepad and then at the clock on the wall.

“We’ve got enough time for one last question, so is there anything you’d like to tell young women and queer people living in the city?” His expression was almost hopeful now, desperate to end off on a lighter note.

Lin smiled in amusement at him before looking down at her hands, fiddling her thumbs in her lap. After a moment, she looked back up at him and started speaking again.

“Absolutely,” she began, her gaze drifting around the room and landing on each individual at least once.

“To all the women working your asses off in the workforce: stand up for yourself. Don’t let any man devalue you because of your gender. Be the best you can be and wipe the smiles clean off their faces as you do it. Start your own businesses, get that promotion, set goals for yourself and fly past them. You can do just about anything you put your mind to, despite what many men might say,” her voice was strong, almost commanding as she began her final statement.

“And to all the young queer people out there; you are so, so strong. Keep loving each other, keep being yourselves. I know how awful people can be, but their opinions do not define you. You are perfect exactly as you are, and nothing can change that. It might seem like it’ll never be true, but I believe we will live in a time when acceptance is the norm. I believe that that time, with hard work and patience with those who need teaching, will be here soon.”

“Perfect. Thank you so much for your time, Chief,” Kaja said, looking at the clock again.

“Thank you for having me,” Lin replied, closing her eyes and taking a deep breath.

“And with that, folks, we wrap up today’s special broadcast. I’ll be back in the studio tomorrow resuming our usual radio program. Until then, I’m Kaja Posicopolis, and this is eighty six point four, your favourite music station,” Kaja finished, staying silent for a few seconds until a man from across the room nodded at him.

He rolled his head around and got up from his chair, setting his notepad down behind him.

“How are you now?” he asked Lin as he stretched his arms out and cracked his back.

Lin scoffed and stood, going through a couple of her own stretches. She straightened her shirt and tucked a few stray hairs back before responding.

“I feel like I just stood naked in front of the entire city,” she said, unable to hold back a small smile when Kaja laughed.

“Well, we’re about to expose you even more. You ready for the photo shoot?” he grabbed his notebook and pen and closed them, watching Lin for an answer.

“As ready as I’ll ever be,” Lin sighed before following him out of the room.

They walked down several long hallways, eventually coming to a large open room. The walls and floor were a pale grey cement, and there were expensive looking lights set up all over the place. A dark green upholstered bench sat to one side of the room, a tall light shining down on it. A few people saw them coming in and rushed around, turning off almost every other light. One of them knocked on a door that was on the other end of the room, calling for someone inside.

“This seems a bit excessive,” Lin muttered, her eyes wandering the room.

“Only the best for you, Chief,” a man said from somewhere in the shadows.

Lin glanced behind her only to see Kaja talking to someone near the door. When she turned back to where the voice had come from, she had to bite back a laugh. She tried not to, but couldn’t help smiling at the absolute glow that radiated from the man in front of her.

“You like my outfit?” he asked with a grin, twirling around for her.

He had on bright red fit-and-flare pants with a stripe of gold sequins down their side; a matching red low-cut tank top; a purple feather-covered knee-length jacket; gold sparkly platform shoes that made him tower over Lin more than he already would have; and a top hat that belonged with a businessman’s black tie attire.

“It’s incredible,” Lin chuckled, crossing her arms casually over her chest.

“You look sharp yourself today, Chief,” he said with a grin, taking a few steps towards her.

Before she could object, he pulled her into a tight hug. His arms squashed her face against his lower chest, making Lin painfully aware of the extent of their height difference. She laughed and patted his arm, thankfully getting him to release her.

“I’m assuming you’re the photographer, then?” she asked, grinning up at him.

He nodded enthusiastically and spun on his heel, walking back into the darkness. She heard a couple of small crashes and a string of profanities before he came back, a large camera and it’s stand filling his arms.

“Uh- where am I going?” he asked Lin, glancing at her out of the corner of his eye.

She let out a small laugh and stepped towards him, placing her hand on his arm. She guided him towards the bench setup, stopping them near where the light stood.

“Thank you, thank you!” he exclaimed, setting down the camera’s stand first and then fastening the camera to it.

“Of course,” Lin breathed, suddenly nervous to have her photo taken.

The photographer immediately noticed her mood change and put his hands on her shoulders.

“Don’t worry, I’ll make you look,” he closed his eyes and blew a chef's kiss to the side.

Lin nodded and took a deep breath, filling her lungs as much as she could before letting it all out. The photographer made a few adjustments to the camera stand, making sure it would stay while he got her in position, and then led her to the bench. He sat her down in the middle of it and walked back to his camera, dragging the stand loudly over so he was more to her right.

“Don’t be so stiff,” he called, looking at her through the viewfinder and flapping his hand in the air.

“Just- pretend I’m not here, you’re just sitting at home listening to the radio.”

He stepped back from the camera and watched Lin as she settled her head on her left fist with her right elbow on her knee. The photographer gave her a big thumbs up, calling “Much better!” and going back to looking through his camera.

He shifted it a few times before taking any photos, wanting to get it right in as few shots as possible considering the price and rarity of film in stores. Lin looked at the camera for the first few, looking away because of her boredom growing steadily. When he seemed satisfied with the shots, he took the camera off the stand and walked over to the bench.

“Room for another?” he asked, not letting Lin answer before settling himself beside her.

The images printed slowly, one at a time. After each was out, he placed them in the shadow under the bench to protect them from overexposure. Once the last one printed, he reached down and grabbed the first. It had settled well, the colours coming out nice and bright.

“It’s perfect,” Lin gasped, staring in wonder at the photo that managed to make her alright with how she looked out-of-uniform.

The photographer grinned at her, holding the photo up.

“I agree,” he said proudly, forgetting his other photos and standing.

Lin watched as he brought the photo to Kaja, engaging the shorter man in a quick and lively discussion before handing off the photo and walking back. He grinned ear to ear at her, and she sighed before relenting and giving a small smile back.

“Nervous, Chief?” he asked, standing before her with his hands shoved into the pockets of his jacket.

Lin chuckled and shook her head.

“I just haven’t done something like this in ages… or ever, really,” she said, her hands moving to grip the edge of the bench.

“Hey,” the photographer moved to place a hand on her shoulder, prompting her to look up at him.

“You’re doing great, Chief, trust me,” Lin let out a breath and really smiled at him this time.

“Thank you,” she said quietly, meaning it with every ounce of her being.

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bthump · 3 years

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I wanted to touch on the whole gutsca thing with someone (I know zero people in this fandom so you're my lucky pick!). Am I alone in feeling like their first time together came out of no where? My meta with Guts is that he was not at all comfortable with sex at that time of his life (this instance being his first time [outside of the rape he experienced as a child]). His choice of words too, "here I go", translated to me like someone only doing what they felt was expected of them rather than something he was yearning for. He clearly wasn't even ready given how rough he was and how he regressed and attacked her. This moment seemed very forced and almost rang to me like Kentaro's declaration of "no homo though". I would be curious to know how Kentaro felt about homosexuality (bisexuality, etc) and if he ever addressed the ever blatant gay tension and romantic-non-platonic-love blossoming between Guts and Griffith pre-eclipse. I do get the sense that this may be a case of severe queer baiting or perhaps a PSA against gay love altogether ("falling for a man will literally destroy you and send you and everyone you love to hell" type of message); but I'm a very jaded person so I hope to be proven wrong. Sigh, my point being Gutsca seems pretty dang forced and empty of true development. I buy them more as besties than anything romantic. Especially since both he and Casca are actually in love with Griffith (what a fucking triangle!). Does anyone in fandom have any opinions on the sad possibility of this whole beautiful and ultimately tragic love between Griffith and Guts actually being a fucked up anti-gay PSA? Are there any interviews with Kentaro shooting this theory down so I can stop being sad and bitter about it? What are your thoughts?

Thanks for sending this, I'm definitely down to talk about it! I hope you connect with more people in the fandom but don’t worry about sending random asks even if you do lol.

Anyway you’re definitely not alone. I have a lot of thoughts on Guts and Casca's hook up, and they're all pretty much "it feels really forced and not particularly romantic but I think you can argue that that's deliberate" lol. For instance I discuss in a lot of detail here how various aspects of the scene indicate that Guts and Casca having sex is shown to be a case of both of them rebounding from Griffith and sort of giving to each other what they were unable or failed to give to him.

And I talk a lot about how Judeau essentially orchestrates it all and what that suggests about Guts and Casca's relationship here.

And lol sorry for all the links but also this post is about how their relationship feels one-sided to an extent and is used to illuminate a lot of Guts' flaws, using Judeau as a comparison point.

Oh shit and also one more lol, here's a comparison between the sex scene and Griffith's with Charlotte that suggests that both start as ways for the dudes to repress their feelings.

(Don't feel obligated to read all those posts if you don't want, you should get the gist of what I'm saying w/ those descriptions.)

But yeah basically I do think that Guts and Casca getting together felt forced and awkward. At best it might be intended to be seen that way, as two friends hooking up awkwardly in an emotionally intense moment but probably doomed to failure because neither of them are ready for a relationship with the other, or particularly interested in one deep down, once they finished "licking wounds." At worst it’s just bad writing lol. But again like I think there are good arguments for the former.

I also totally agree that their relationship has a strong vibe of doing what's expected. Like for real, at least to me both Guts and Casca read so easily as gay and repressed lol. Casca talks about her feelings for Griffith in terms of “he was a boy she was a girl can I make it any more obvious”

and I can’t help but see it as Casca like, wow I have strong feelings towards Griffith, he’s a man and I’m a woman, so clearly these feelings must be romantic, there’s no other option. Then when she has sex with Guts she keeps contextualizing it essentially as repayment for Guts saving her, like she owes him. “I too want a wound I can say you gave me.” “Not just being given to... maybe I can give something as well.” Which just doesn’t make her desire for him look all that genuine lol.

And then you have Guts. The way he tells Casca that from the start only her touch was okay with him after he has sex with her, referencing the scene when he wakes up with her on top of him and starts to panic before realizing she’s a woman, is soooo suggestive of repression to me. Like, first off because it’s incorrect, he was also okay with Griffith going in for a face-grab after winning a duel Guts had been projecting his rape trauma all over, which seems like a pretty conspicuous omission. And secondly because the reason he was okay with Casca’s touch specifically is solely because she’s a woman, not because she’s special or because they have a magic romantic connection - it’s because she’s not a man. To me that just screams that Guts was open to sex with Casca because she’s the only woman he knows, and he’s afraid of the idea of physical intimacy with men, regardless of what he might actually want deep down.

So yeah that’s basically how I feel about Guts and Casca’s relationship, strong agree with you.

When it comes to Miura’s intent, I can tell you that Miura was asked about the subtext in an interview once, back in 2000, and he responded with something along the lines of ‘two men can have passionate feelings for each other without it being romantic.’ The interview is here, but this is a paraphrase the translator mentioned in the comments.

Other than that I’ve never seen him address it directly, but on the flipside he has cited several textually gay stories as inspiration (off the top of my head: Kaze to Ki no Uta, Devilman, Guin Saga, mangaka Moto Hagio in general), and he has straightforwardly said that the (magical intersex) central character of his other work, Duranki, was intended to have romances with both male and female love interests. Also people tell me there are strong griffguts vibes with the main, presumably canon or intended-to-be-canon ship there. So there’s that lol.

As for the no homo aspect and the potential homophobia in the griffguts subtext... I can’t deny I’ve also considered the idea that it’s a deliberate anti-gay PSA (though I haven’t seen anyone else address the idea as far as I remember, and I’ve only briefly mentioned it offhandedly). Like, Guts and Griffith’s relationship turns bad because they’re both too invested in each other, maybe the barely-subtextual desire is meant to look like a sinister twisting of pure platonic feelings that ruins everything, if Griffith hadn’t loved him the Eclipse never would have happened, etc.

But honestly I don’t think that reading holds up compared to a much more positive reading of their feelings, in which it’s their failure to understand them and act on them, thanks largely to formative childhood trauma and self-hatred, that leads to tragedy.

I don’t know what Miura intended, and there certainly are aspects of the story that are homophobic regardless of his intent, even if my best-faith reading is entirely correct, like the only textual gay attraction being pedophiles and over the top heretic orgies lol, or yk, Guts and Griffith both assaulting the same woman while looking at/thinking about the other in a very sexually charged way.

But the reading of their relationship where it’s positive and good for both of them, even including sexual desire, and only gets fucked up because they both incorrectly think their feelings are unrequited is legitimately so weirdly strong, much stronger than a reading where the sexual nature of their feelings is what fucks everything up, so I’m pretty happy just rolling with that take.

And as much as Casca can be seen and may very well be intended as a no homo, it’s also very easy for me to read her relationships with both as less of a hopeful opportunity for positive heterosexual romance and more of a “here’s how repressing your feelings thru attempts at heterosexuality fucks you up” PSA lol. Griffith and Charlotte too, for that matter. It’s definitely a stretch to think that’s intended, but whether it’s intended or not it’s an easy sell for me and I’m fine with not really worrying too much about possible authorial intent there.

Finally, I also want to link this post that goes pretty thoroughly into why I interpret griffguts as very positive rather than as a cautionary tale or predatory gay lust etc

And also have this shorter post about Femto on the same subject too, why not

Oh and maybe this thing where I split hairs about Guts’ lust for Griffith and desire for revenge to make a point that the homoeroticism isn’t necessarily being equated with violence by the narrative lol

#ask #a #b #anonymous #theme: repression #theme: homoeroticism #interviews #ship: griffguts #ship: gtsca #theme: homophobia #theme: heteronormativity

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