#i'm tired of discourse

[beth-bunkus]

good morning lovely people, time to rise hissing and spitting once again

[thetourguidebarbie]

I think it would be helpful for everyone to acknowledge that "Israel is killing a high number of civilians in Gaza AND THAT IS BAD AND WRONG" can and does coexist with "other countries also do pretty much this exact thing and worse literally all the time but Israel gets a much more aggressive response because of antisemitism and that is a legitimate problem". One does not negate the other. This is called

✨nuance✨

[moonydanny]

Since we're seeing BoBs complaining ✨️again✨️ about Tommy being a pallbearer, let's just think for a second.

It's been pointed out before a million times that it's customary to have members of a Captain's house carry the coffin, that's why it's not Harry or May. Next.

"But Tommy isn't in Bobby's house, it makes no sense." If we're using that argument, Eddie also shouldn't be a pallbearer because, at the moment, he's not a member of the 118. Next.

"But Tommy didn't even really know Bobby." Babes, we can't keep having to quote canon, on-screen moments that prove this wrong every time just because you ppl watch the show with your eyes closed and your ears plugged. Next.

"Well, why don't they put another random firefighter from the 118, then?" 😮‍💨😮‍💨 Okay. Let's put on our thinking hats for a second. Who is the General Audience going to be less surprised to see in that spot? A random firefighter who we've never seen before ('cause they've never even been consistent with the last names of the background firefighters, let's be real)? Or the recurring character who:

Was an OG member of Bobby's first crew at the 118 and who spent months under his command.

Was a key element in saving Bobby and Athena from the cruise ship last year.

Was a part of the most recent, two-part emergency where he was a key element in saving Bobby's crew.

Dated Bobby's pseudo-son for 6 months.

Bobby *verbatim* said was good people and good for Buck.

Has been mentioned constantly, even in episodes he wasn't in, keeping him in the audience's mind.

Seriously? WHO makes more sense? A random person we've never seen or the character who was literally in the previous episode who has many connections to Bobby, even beyond their own personal one?

Like, be for fucking real. BoBs, babes, you just don't want to see Tommy 'cause you hate him. JUST SAY THAT instead of trying to pull dumb empty arguments from your asses. At least that way you people would be honest. 🙄🙄

[duncanor]

"not liking MelJay is misogynoir"

"caitvi is outshined by Jayvik, this is lesbophobic"

"not shipping Skyvik is sexist"

"Viktor always being hc as trans is sexist and transphobic"

CAN Y'ALL SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP MISUSING PROGRESSIVE TERMINOLOGY FOR BASELESS FANDOM BULLSHIT I SWEAR TO GOD-

PLEASE, talk about your blorbo, it's not a popularity contest but if you want people to love your shit you outta talk, write and draw about it.

That's just how it works 😭 you can't throw a fit just because people don't care about the same shit you do.

Please talk more about your love of Mel Medarda! Write those funky lesbians resolving a murder mystery! Do art about Sky, use the little information we have on her and expend on her character! Post meta of your favorite ship! Do propaganda !!!

Please keep creating for your blorbos! KEEP POSTING !

[star-pocalypse]

Breaking News: girl who spent years defending Katara sees the Seven Havens announcement and has a hysterical breakdown as she realizes she's going back in the arena

More at 6

[johanna-swann]

Can I just say that the Diaz parents are so normal actually? Yes, they're overbearing. But that is like the most normal flaw a parent could have? It's also not like Eddie hasn't profited from his parents being overly involved in the past. How do you think Shannon survived as a (basically) single mother of a disabled child when Eddie fucked off to Afghanistan for literal years? How do you think Eddie worked three jobs when he was a single dad and Christopher was only 5? It's because Helena offered free child care, that's how.

Things are different now, Eddie doesn't need Helena to step up anymore the way she used to, but he didn't tell her that until 8x13. Quite the opposite, he agreed with Chris' decision to move to Texas with his grandparents, never objected a single thing about it for half a year or so, silently went along with everything the last few weeks and only spoke up about it for the first time in 8x13.

He was right of course to establish some boundaries, put his foot down and say: "That is my son, not yours, and I'm his parent, not you!" and Helena - instead of relying on old habits - could've been more supportive of Eddie as a parental authority in the first place.

She fell back into an old pattern from when Eddie was overwhelmed and new to being a parent and one tough day away from a burnout, when Christopher was a lot younger and needed a lot more help. It's not great she did this, but she is not abusive or evil. Get a grip.

[queerofthedagger]

the thing is that if comments/kudos/engagement are "payment" for authors' "free" work, aka if fandom is transactional, then readers are in fact "paying" for something. and if readers are "paying" for something then fic is a product, and if you are "paying" for a "product" you are in fact - generally speaking - entitled to make some basic demands regarding said "product." what that looks like is gonna be different from reader to reader but we have spent years upon years arguing, rightly so, that people are not entitled to updates, or completed fics, or to offer unsolicited criticism, or fics going the way they want them to, or that authors shouldn't have the right to delete their stuff, etc etc. etc. and that entire argument crumbles the moment you turn this into a transaction and it's just no wonder (if no less goddamn obnoxious) that readers' entitlement is skyrocketing when they are treated like fucking customers. like. turning this into an us vs them seller vs customer thing is, aside from entirely ignorant of the fact that writers most often are readers themselves, the most horrific thing happening to fandom. stop turning this into a fucking free market under the guise of community. i swear to fucking god

[quinnception]

And a very special fuck you to anyone who adds an undescribed image to a fully described chain

[not-terezi-pyrope]

The inherent tension between the eat-the-rich working class self-made grind of being an independent etsy/commission artisan on social media, and the fact that due to the (very fair!) "know the worth of your work" price points in the hundreds of dollars their clients can by definition pretty much only ever be well off people with a lot of disposable income.

Issue is that a lot of them don't seem to realise this, which is evident when they try to guilt fellow poor people (and often those who are in fact a lot worse off) into buying their work, or call them or for not being willing to personally spend at their price point.

[maerhiya]

the vast mistreatment of aro/ace characters in fandom spaces needs to be studied

[tiercelgreen]

'Common' Theriotypes. Why They Exist and What The Cause Might Be.

Aka. Uh oh guys, Tiercel’s been thinking a little too much about nonhumanity.

If you've been active in the therian community for any amount of time, you may have noticed the prevalence of a few animals absolutely dominating discussion boards, video posts, and therian-centric sites. I am, of course, referencing the high number of wolves, domestic or large cats, and foxes. You may have also noticed that folks in (or outside) of the therian and broader alterhuman community claiming that a majority of people with these theriotypes 'must be faking' due to their (apparent) majority. I won't deny that certain theriotypes seem more 'popular' than others, but I don't personally believe that their prevalence actually has anything to do with 'faking therianthropy'. I'll be breaking down why this might be into multiple sections to better organize my thoughts on the subject matter. Easy Visibility When a therian first awakens, discovers what the therian community is, or begins to question their therianthropy, they often reach out for help or search for resources to assist them in figuring out what their theriotype may be. Frequently they're told by other therians or the sites they look to to research animals that align with their instincts, shifts (if they experience them), and the environments they remember (if they believe the origin of their therianthropy to be a past life) and/or feel most comfortable in.

The primary issue with this advice is that animal behavior, while specific to each animal, can be generalized across clades and even across unrelated species. If the questioning therian searches for their theriotype based on their food-guarding tendencies, growling, and love of cold climates, they're equally likely to be a wolf, a marten, a wolverine, a fox, a bear, a lynx, or any other predatory cold-biome mammal. Which one of these animals do you think is going to pop up first when they're researching cold-climate predators that match their specifications.

A Wolf. And because questioning therians are not frequently encouraged to search further than the first result, or are not sure how to fully determine if the animal is their theriotype, or is just one they feel a strong connection to, they go with the first animal that popped up. This is the primary reason why 'popular' theriotypes happen. They're the first animal(s) in the search bar when questioning therians go looking, and they're often not informed enough about the process of discovering one's theriotype to look for other options. They may also feel pressured to have figured out their theriotype already, given that every other therian around them already seems to know. Solving this issue is as simple as encouraging further search and not jumping headfirst into declaring an animal your theriotype. Reassure questioning therians that it's OK to not know their theriotype immediately, and it's OK to keep looking. It's also OK to find out you were wrong later on and 'change' (not actually change, but rather adjust the label of) your theriotype to your more accurate one.

Not A Theriotype Perhaps controversially, the 'popular' theriotypes may not be theriotypes at all. When questioning therians are introduced to the community they're often unfamiliar with terms such as otherhearted, otherlink, copinglink, or archetrope. Because they're unfamiliar with these other words and definitions, they assume any sort of connection with an animal (extant, extinct, or mythical) is therianthropy. The reason that 'popular theriotypes. may show up more often as hearttypes, links, or tropes (though this one is fairly nebulous) is because they're often easier on a fundamental level to relate to or project feeling, emotion, or connection onto. They're easier to identify with from a human perspective due to the human nature of anthropomorphizing nonhuman animals and due to humanity's familiarity and fondness towards them, and so they appear more often as hearttypes/links. In the case of links especially, because it is a voluntary identity, more 'popular' animals are chosen specifically because there is an aspect of choice involved. 'Popular' animals do have a 'cool factor' to them that makes them more beloved by linkers and more likely to become links. And this isn't a bad thing in the slightest! This particular issue can simply be resolved by further educating the alterhuman community on the terms used within it. I personally recommend the Alterhuman Dictionary as it has easy to understand and up-to-date definitions. Not A Therian We must be able to calmly confront the fact that, at the end of the day, some of these therians with popular theriotypes may not be therians, otherhearted, otherlinkers, or copinglinkers at all. However, that does not mean that they are faking, and it's harmful to assume so or claim that someone is. Firstly, many of the therians with 'popular theriotypes' that other therians complain about are very young. 12-16 most of the time. Secondly, this age is when a lot of things about one's personal identity are in flux, and it's prime time to begin discovering who you are. Exploring one's identity is fundamentally nonharmful, and this can mean testing out labels and identifying as something you may turn out to not be at all. There's no shame in this. I myself thought I was some form of canine for many years before realizing that my ‘canine’ behaviors were not canine at all, they were draconic. And ultimately, age does not factor into this as much as you’d think it does. Yes young therians are likely to be a little more tactless than adult therians on the internet, and are more prone to bullying, but anyone of any age is capable of exploring their identity and getting it wrong the first few (or few-hundred) times.

Therians in New Spaces The real catalyst for the vast majority of this [extremely pointless] discourse is the fact that therians are in the public eye now more than ever. Videos of therians go viral on TikTok, the news (inaccurately and harmfully) reports on us occasionally, and bigots who scream about ‘identity politics’ and ‘blue hair and pronouns’ have latched onto us as a new target to bully and harass. This is nothing new, the community has weathered harassment before, but the widespread nature of it is what’s inflaming this discourse. People make fun of ‘popular’ theriotypes because they want to distance themselves from ‘cringe therians’ (usually just vocal and proud younger therians), they want to avoid the bullying that easily targeted therians are facing so they join in, or because they feel like gatekeeping the community from supposed ‘fake’ therians is the only way to keep ‘true’ therians safe. The best way to mitigate this is to correct misinformation, educate, and if worse comes to worse, block. The block button is your best friend on the internet (where most of this discourse and bullying occurs), if someone is harassing you and won’t let up, or even if they just severely irritate you, blocking them does no harm and is ultimately better for your mental health and (sometimes) safety. Conclusion While perhaps more scrambled, I hope this essay has helped you understand the inane discourse around ‘popular’ theriotypes and what to do about it (if anything). I’ll leave you on the reminder that you’re under zero obligation to educate those who won’t listen, your experience with alterhumanity is going to be different from everyone else’s even if there are similarities, and you do not have the knowledge or right to tell anyone you do or do not know that they’re faking an aspect of their identity. Leave people with ‘popular’ theriotypes alone. And by the fucking gods, please stop arguing about it. It does not matter.

[beelxebub]

i totally get why people make the captain a military man or ex-military in modern AUs because it makes sense but i personally believe he would simply be one of those middle aged autistic men whose special interest is wwii military vehicles

[swordscleric]

I'm only halfway through the second phase of Predathos (which, to be clear is an incredible vibe for a bossfight, love a good head & hands/multitarget-same-entity boss) but I cannot shake the feeling of disappointment and just dissatisfaction I have had with this campaign that definitely started with Dusk/Yu, got followed up handily with the first Delilah/Sun Tree fight and then has been unfortunately reinforced with every discussion surrounding the Prime Deities since Hearthdell. This campaign is fascinating to pick apart, I have been really enjoying pulling apart why it isn't working compared to C1 or C2. But as much as I'm having fun dissecting where the worldbuilding has led to the current weaknesses in the gods' argument or reading other people's incisive commentary on the lack of personalities on the Ruby Vanguard's end, the "girlfailure" nonsense, etc etc, man do I wish this campaign was better than it is.

There are so many avenues of improvement -

Matt telling everyone to prep and write characters for this campaign instead of a C2-esque character-focused campaign.

Matt working religious organisations into the world properly.

The cast engaging with Marquet as a genuine location rather than set-dressing.

Otohan, Ozo and the rest of the Vanguard having more than "*insert snappy line here*" for their personalities.

No Delilah.

Bell's Hells having an iota of curiosity for anything outside of their own selves, including but not limited to: the gods, religious worship, the Elemental Titans and why they were sundered, how the people of Exandria feel about the gods, Vasselheim and its role in suppressing information about Predathos, Ludinus Da'Leth's plan and how it would still break the world if they did it in his place

I don't know why all of this fell into place in the way that it did, but it did. We can endlessly speculate why - the cast resting on their laurels after C2, not having enough time between the animated shows and Daggerheart and Candela Obscura and, and, and - but at the end of the day I really do hope that whatever form the final campaign wrap-up takes, they burn the damn questions asking the cast "what if the world was made of pudding and this character and this character kissed?" and instead pick questions that get them to introspect for a potential Campaign 4. Otherwise I don't know what will happen, but it sure as hell won't be Mighty Nein part 2: Issylra Boogaloo.

[shadow-redferne]

Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things

(PT: Proship vs Anti Discourse is Why We Can't Have Nice Things) (Trigger warning: This post discusses multiple sensitive topics, including abuse, bullying, bigotry and suicide. Reader discretion *heavily* advised)

I've finally gotten around to this post and I'll admit I can already smell the hostility. Just some disclaimers: This post isn't me commenting on the morality of certain media or ships, nor is it me commenting on whether or not fiction affects reality. This is only to talk about the damage this kind of discourse has done to fandom. I am going to warn you: This is *not* a post full of kindness. I am not going to be nice. This post is going to be a bit mean. No. Very mean. Sorry about that. So, TL;DR: Both sides have a harassment problem, and neither side wants to address the issues their communities have, leading to fandom becoming an unsafe environment. So uh, I don't think I need to write a witty introduction here. The current state of fandom is rancid. Harassment has become a giant fucking problem lately. So what's the problem? The problem lies in one thing: 'Proship' vs 'Antiship' discourse.

"Shadow, what the fuck do those words mean?" Proship used to mean that you supported all ships, all forms of fiction, and that you were against harassing anyone who was involved in fandom, as well as against censorship. 'Anti', or 'antiship', meant that you were against some forms of fiction and shipping, mainly ones involving minors or incest. Now you might've noticed that I used the phrase "used to" and the word "meant". That's because both terms kinda got new definitions and became buzzwords, with proship turning into a synonym for 'problematic shipper' (the term 'darkship' eventually came around to distinguish the two apart from my understanding, but uh...as you can see it hasn't helped much!). On top of that, people use the word 'proship' as a verb or type of content rather than an actual stance (ie. 'proshipping', 'proship content', 'proship artstyle', you get the idea). However that's not the main point here. Let's cut to the chase now; both sides fucking hate each other; we'll make that clear, with both sides throwing vile accusations towards one another. However, the more I looked into the swamp, the more distrust I gained for both sides. Something was bothering me, but what? I tried to do a survey; two of them in fact, to see which side was more hostile. Unfortunately, neither survey gave me a lot of useful results, considering I got very little responses from the anti side (So uh, thanks for nothing on that end guys. /nm). The written responses did give one common theme: Fandom has a problem. A problem with harassment, bullying, creeps and bigotry. The antis are particularly horrible when it comes to this. I'm going to start this off by saying that I actually used to consider myself an 'anti' due to my discomfort with noncon and incest. And unfortunately, I was pretty fucking hostile to others (although I never sent death threats, fuck anyone who does that shit). I eventually stopped associating with the 'anti' side when I saw how rampant the ableism was- more on that later. 'Antis' have caused severe harm to fandom, and I don't really understand how anyone can deny that. However, I am pretty fucking tired of everyone pretending that the 'proship' side is the good side. I know the 'proship' side isn't going to like hearing this, but it needs to be said: You guys are *just* as guilty as 'antis' when it comes to being toxic. And I'm not saying that because of the pro-incest stuff or the minor/adult pairings. I'm saying that many 'proshippers' are way too comfortable with being creepy towards others, and the community that claims to be 'anti-harassment'... isn't all that anti-harassment! Here are just some of the written responses I got from the survey:

Here's one alibi from an anonymous user who submitted to the @selfship-confession-box account (pls let me know if you dont want to be tagged)

Another anon that was submitted to the @proship-anti-discussion account

Lastly, here's some of the replies and reblogs to a post talking about an 'ex-proshipper' that left the community due to negative experiences (the OP of said post and the 'ex proshipper' in question did eventually apologize to each other, so I'll cut both of them some slack. I'm only showing the responses because holy fuck are they rancid).

So yeah. So much for the 'proship' community being "anti-harassment" and inclusive to SA and grooming survivors. Now, to the 'anti' side. I will say, the 'proshippers' got one thing right, and that's the fact that 'antis' very much fucking suck. And remember when I said that 'proshippers' were hypocrites? Well, 'antis' are also that. They talk so much about protecting "sa survivors" and how "proshippers are bigoted". But what do the written responses say about this?

and let's not forget *this*

I also want to bring up this comment about the term 'proship artstyle' that I thought was worth mentioning:

In other words... 'antis' aren't as great to hang around either! Now, there's one particular issue I really want to zero in on, and that's the rampant ableism from both sides. As one of the above written responses say, there is a huge problem of 'antis' and 'proshippers' misusing words like 'psychotic' and 'delusional'. The r-slur is also pretty rampant, I've noticed.

Still don't believe me? Okay. Here's a more recent example from an anonymous 'anti' I came across (ironically enough this came up when I searched "proship ableism". Also. fatphobia too? pick a struggle anon)

And that's not even getting into the amount of 'antis' who weaponize the saying "seek help" or "go to therapy". Now, let's go back to the terms supposed original meanings, particuarly the meaning for 'proshipper'. That term was supposed to mean that you were against censorship and harassing people for fiction and ships, and that you didn't judge people for liking certain ships. Meanwhile, 'antis' were supposedly about wanting to get rid of problematic media that could be harmful to minors and SA survivors. But it's time to be honest: Both sides have lost the plot. How am I supposed to believe either side is "anti-harassment" when neither side knows how to respect boundaries? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about SA survivors when you have both sides constantly speaking over said survivors and also harassing them? How am I supposed to believe either side cares about minors when there's been individuals on both sides, yes, including the so called "antis" that "care so much about protecting children uwu", that were outed as groomers? How am I supposed to believe either side is the good side when you have things like this happening:

The last thing I take issue with? The terms "proship" and "anti" as a whole, as well as every single similar term that's come out of this mess. While I do genuinely believe these terms were probably helpful in the past, it's clear that they're not doing any good whatsoever. Both terms have had their original meanings muddied and twisted to the point where they basically have no meaning at all, and the terms existing have created a massive "us vs them" mentality within fandom. There's also the issue of both sides forcing labels on others. I've seen posts that are all "if you believe x, congrats you're a proshipper!" or "if you believe y, you're an anti!". As well as anyone identifying as 'neutralship' (a label I also used to identify with before I stopped associating with these labels entirely) being called a "closet proshipper" or an "anti in disguise". Personally? If you have to force people to pick a side in order for you to trust them, I don't see why I should trust you. If you have to rely on labels like "proship", "anti", "anti-anti", "anti-harassment", "anti-censorship" to come across as a safe person or a good person, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to see you as a good person. You might be wondering why I included the "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" labels in that. Well, I'm going to be honest, and you are welcome to disagree with me on this, but I feel like these terms are so fucking unnecessary. Being "anti-harassment" and "anti-censorship" is the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM, a bare minimum that neither side can truly follow. Also, calling yourself "anti-harassment" doesn't automatically make me believe that. Especially when it's been proven time and time again that 'proshippers', the side believed to be 'anti-harassment', isn't all that 'anti-harassment' at all! Now I know what you're thinking at this point; you're thinking that I condone harassment because I'm going after both sides. You're thinking that I don't give a damn about the death threats that 'antis' have sent. No. No. No. That is not what I'm saying. And honestly, if *that's* the message you're getting, I don't know what to tell you.

So no, I'm not saying harassment is good or okay (and if that's the message you got from reading the above... I genuinely do not know what to tell you). I'm saying that you don't deserve a medal or a cookie for not sending death threats or being against people who send death threats, when it's literally the BARE MINIMUM. The bar is in fucking hell at this point. And as it's been shown, neither "proshippers" nor "antis" are truly anti-harassment. Me not liking 'proshippers' doesn't automatically mean I'm okay with sending them death threats, and me not liking 'antis' doesn't make me okay with abuse. And it sure as fucking hell doesn't mean that I don't care either. Because guess what? I do fucking care. It's why I'm fucking making this post in the first place. I shouldn't have to identify as "proship" or "anti" or any other labels to tell you that I care. Me refusing to use a label doesn't mean I'm apathetic to all the harm that's happened. And I sure as hell am not condoning harassment by refusing to hold hands with individuals who can't even bother to respect each other's boundaries. And honestly? If you interpret "I don't support proshippers *or* antis because they both made fandom toxic and unsafe" as "I condone sending death threats and rape threats", that's kind of on you. Here's a simple message I have for anyone who calls themselves "proship" or "antiship", and I am going to be especially mean here: Stop pretending to brand yourselves as the good guys when all you've done is break boundaries, talk over abuse survivors and marginalized groups. Stop being hypocrites, and actually address the issues within your goddamn communities. And stop downplaying said issues by saying "BUT THIS SIDE IS WORSE!" or "BUT THEY DO IT TOO!". Also, stop forcing people to use your dumb labels. Literally all of this could be fucking solved with using the block buttons or report buttons. There is no reason for this stupid fucking infighting. You don't have to like each other, fuck no, but quit dragging those who aren't involved into your messes and ruining fandom for everyone.

To "antis": Quit pretending to care about SA survivors and minors when you're the ones sending them death threats (And maybe address the fucking groomers within your community too, by the fucking way). To "proshippers": Stop being a dick to people who have had negative experiences with your community, stop ignoring the bigotry and stop letting in predators within your community. Now lastly, I know I said I wasn't going to comment on stances, but I do want to say this because it's also very much fucking bothering me. I hate how this discourse just boils down to either "Fiction DOESN'T affect reality at all, it's 100% okay to support ANY kind of media/ship/pairing no matter how problematic it is, and if you disagree with that you're a fascist!" or "Actually supporting ANY kind of media that's problematic and/or depicts so and so is BAD and if you support that you're a horrible human being! And if you disagree with me you're just as bad!" Have you guys perhaps, I don't know: Considered a fucking middle ground? Have you maybe considered nuanced discussions? How about that? Okay, I'm done being mean. In fact, I actually don't have much else to say so here's a video that talks about it a little more nicer than I do

*Sigh* I'm going to regret posting this, aren't I?