#some allo queers will never include us for the life of us

[leikeliscomet]

Getting into the aspec community's anti-love stance more on a personal level cus it's been me rubbing the wrong way for so long.

Society sees love and sex as the same so it doesn't make sense whenever the community acts like the marginalisation of certain types of sex wouldn't have any impact on romance whatsoever. That homophobes hate homosexuality but will give homoromanticism a free pass. There was a whole study, the MacInnis-Hodson study, that showed homophobes admitted they'd still discriminate against gay people if we don't have sex. Homophobes think gay love doesn't exist in two respects; that gayness is inherently sexual so 'love' between the same gender doesn't exist because it's only sexual and that gay love is perverted, sinful because it can involve sex and shouldn't exist. There is no way to be anti gay love that doesn't circle back to this. It's also weird that people unironically think puritans are pro-love if they're anti sex (and spoilers they're not anti-sex they love heterosexual reproduction) like no they're pro-marriage. Pro cishet monogamous marriage to be exact. There isn't a single context where they think gay love is pure. They've banned gay kisses, they've erased gay characters that don't have sex, there's a whole genre of homophobic Netflix where gay characters being physically close to each other is getting scrubbed and sanitised like this idea of pure uwu alloromantic love u lot are talking about doesn't include the gays. It's *never* included us. It also doesn't include Black women because look at the way writers and fandoms fight tooth and nail to avoid making Black women love interests. In fact it doesn't include any marginalised group society says is romantically undesirable.

The most important form of pro-gay love activism I always think of is queer Ghanaians and the anti-LGBTQIA bill that got passed. I can't visit my family in Ghana without being in danger. I either put myself at risk by connecting with my own roots or I never see them and stay 'safe' in the UK (and I use 'safe' in the lightest way possible). I think of queer Ghanaians and other queer Black Africans in the global south navigating the effects of colonialism on top of rampant queerphobia, violence and rape. The conflict of being proud of your Africanness whilst your country is killing you. I think of Angel Maxine and her creation of Love is Our Will and the full version, Kill The Bill Love Is Our Will and how as Ghana's first openly trans musician she's putting her life on the line everytime she sings about gay love. I'm never gonna see that as useless of 'uwu pure love allo things' like fuck no. Fuck that. It's an act of resistance and bravery. So yeah western aspecs giggling about gay love messages being useless when this shit is going on will always be dutty and ignorant to me for this reason.

It feels so weird when I call out amatonormativity and try to centre aroaces as an ace that experiences romantic attraction to have aspecs start shitting on alloaces and non-ace people's romantic attraction in my reblogs like I'm not the alloace and and 'allo queer' in question. I think it's cus people assume I'm aroace too so they feel comfortable saying these things. Or people know I'm not but the idea of being gay and asexual isn't sinking in cus I have a post talking about gay asexuality and people tagged it as aroace instead. Or this is some conditional support cus I cant help but notice the increase in acephobia I'm getting the minute I start focusing on the lesbian side of my asexuality. That aspecs have a bigger issue with the ace lesbian culture blog than they do the Black one.

Yes the 'love is love slogan' has limits, yes love is not the most important part of gay activism but that's literally why we have more than one ffs. You can care about multiple things at once. I'm sorry but if we can see how blatantly reactionary sex loses, don't have gay sex would make a pretty puritan sounding type of activist messaging, that proudly labelling ourselves anti-sex and that supporting sex negativity would sound fucking awful then making fun of gay love activism five seconds after it's giving hypocrisy. Like you lot either genuinely don't know enough gay history of theory so these posts are coming from ignorance or you do know and don't care. And that's worse.

Cus if we were doing up 'fuck love where women are expected to be perfect wives and mothers' 'fuck loving our abusers just because they're family' 'fuck the idea we have to love people unconditionally when they're hurting us' 'fuck the idea romantic love 'fixes' and absolves people for doing morally bad things' 'fuck the idea you have fall in love with the opposite gender/sex only' then i'd be all aboard but no we're (not me tho) making fun of the sexless uwu gays with romantic attraction... just like the rest of society.

[hidden-so-far-away]

Asexuals and aromatics are queer because our experiences match the allo queer people. Why are queer people one large group who stick together and celebrate ourselves and one another? Because we grew up in a world where there was only one acceptable way to live, to identify with and present strongly as the gender you were assigned at birth, to marry one partner of the opposite sex, to have children.

We did not feel we had a place in this world. Some of us felt wrong wearing a dress or a suit, some of us felt uncomfortable with our bodies and our names and our voices. We learned one day that we were not what the world says everyone should be, we had to learn to love and accept ourselves, how to be safe in a world that violently opposes our self expression.

Some of us couldn't relate to other girls or boys when they talked about their crushes. When they talked about heteronormative marrige, when they fantasized about someone you couldn't see the appeal of. Some of us struggled with our feelings for the same gender as us. Some of us felt sick and wrong because we were taught this love is wrong. We learned one day that we were not what the world says everyone should be, we had to learn to love and accept ourselves, how to be safe in a world that violently opposes our self expression.

Some of us couldn't relate to anyone who talked longingly about sex or love. Some of us didn't get crushes or feel attraction to others. Some of us dreaded the "Do you have a girlfriend yet?" Or the "Where are my grandchildren?" Questions we always inevitably heard. Every movie character has a partner. Every adult did. Every child was supposed to want one. Everyone around us wanted one. We wondered if we were sick, if there was something wrong with us, if we were bad people because we didn't feel attraction to others. People treated us like emotionless freaks. We learned one day that we were not what the world says everyone should be, we had to learn to love and accept ourselves, how to be safe in a world that violently opposes our self expression.

Ace and aro people are LGBT because our experiences are the same as yours. We grew up surrounded by the idea that life MUST be lived one specific way, the way everyone does, but that never suited us. We were treated like freaks and outsiders for it. We lied to ourselves and others to feel included and/or to stay safe. We are the same. Sexuality is a spectrum in all directions.

[inolienkiki]

hi! i’m sorry he said a word wrong! this is a concern i experience every day in all of the things i like. basically every piece of media (that better?) i read or watch or enjoy wants to let me know i won’t really be complete without wanting to kiss someone. also, lots of people in my life.

I’m trying not to be sarcastic because instead of taking this opportunity to be rude, i’d like to let you know some things abt how to be courteous to people on the aro and ace spectrums. there are lots of experiences in the queer community orthogonal to sexual orientation, gender, and polyamory, and as with various other underrepresented groups, it’s often easy to miss or fail to understand the things that make us hurt. love and sex is so overwhelmingly normalized that I know, for people who feel those things, it’s often hard to see.

aroace people have lots of experiences, obviously. you may have seen on this website that some aroace people have sex or are in relationships. while that is true, it is often used by allo people (nonaroace, same root as allistic actually!) as an excuse to ship those rare few canon aroace characters. my experience, like that of most aroace people I know, is that of feeling like romance and sex is in a plane beyond me somehow- I don’t feel anything like that and don’t really understand. when i encounter it in stories it rarely has any effect on me except vague boredom.

however, there are certain circumstances where it hits me a lot harder. first, when a character I relate to becomes romantically involved, it’s often hurtful because I have trouble relating to them moving forward. romantic relationships in fiction often involve exposing new behaviors and feelings in their component characters which, to me, often come across as out of character, since I’m unable to understand the context. I know this is a personal problem and I’m working on it. second, sometimes, writers will decide to explicitly include characters being completed, redeemed, or valued only due to their romantic relationships- which hits me much, much, harder, because it carries that implication that I will never really comprehend what it means to be human. I’m sure you understand that feeling.

I want to make clear that, while my experience with romance is obviously different from yours, I value yours too and I support you completely. talking about these kinds of things is so important. there’s a common misconception that aroace people are prudes or anti-sex positivity, but that’s not true at all. I wish we talked about this stuff more! if I had had any idea what romantic or sexual desire was supposed to feel like, I would have been able to come into my identity way sooner, and I would never have pressured myself into a relationship that could never work. thank you for talking so frankly about these things. even though it can be overwhelming at times, I appreciate the intent.

i don’t think you were trying to be dismissive by making this one sentence post, but you kind of come across that way, talking about his linguistic patterns rather than the genuinely serious concern he brings up. I also understand that this post was probably made for other aroace people and might be difficult to bring into focus for someone who hasn’t felt this sort of thing. it’s pretty crushing honestly. I’m sorry this is really long, I just thought it might be helpful to explain how I felt and why this kind of thing hits aroace people a lot harder than allos. I’m happy to share more at length if you’re interested… (I didn’t even talk about amatonormativity…)

read this at your leisure? also I’m sorry if I messed up any words, take it as an intriguing linguistic development?

I’m not gonna tag this because I don’t feel like putting this very personal response out on the waves

I think there's some medias that you just cannot meaningfully engage with if your main priority is shipping

[aronarchy]

https://twitter.com/AbolitionF_ists/status/1467939051613396995

[transcription:

ember ☭ @bimbomarxistt · Dec 5, 2021

imagine hearing a baby cry and your first thought is that they’re t[r]ying to manipulate you into spoiling them

Afrofuturist Abolitionists of the Americas · Dec 6, 2021

The ascription of malice to Children comes from white supremacy. Especially in the US case the logic was built into Puritan theology. The text “Performing Childhoods” goes into the ways this intersected with antiblackness especially during slavery and into the late 1800s

At some point white children were placed into a notion of child innocence especially as the developing bourgeois society needed, in places like the US, to frame them as blank slates to be trained in the school system to become workers. Black children never got that

Black children became the embodiment of childhood malice that needed to be controlled. This always had implications for Black parents bc it became common to paint the children as either dangerous or endangered by Black adults’ irresponsibility

These narratives still follow us: overpolicing blamed on kids having “no home training”; and lack of “home training” blamed on supposed Black Matriarchy (a la Moynihan ideology); or on poor Black cishet men not being proper breadwinners (Bootstraps ideology)

None of these ideas developed in a stable form. It developed over time. We specified the late 1800s bc around then the foundation of more well known “science” inquiries was being harnessed in a unique way, especially as class struggle are under way, in the way of abolitionisms...

... the early “intellectual projects” that would become eugenics in the 20th century, the scramblings for territory in Africa that definitely was a material undercurrent to these things... It is all connected. These things were interacting

Interested in hearing about how Colonial constructions of childhood developed and shifted outside the US context tho. If any folks [have] information on that let us know.

(As far as the Christian theology: original sin doctrines had a history of positioning children as in need of authoritarian parenting in order to punish the devil or temptation out of them. The same logic went into certain values of why abstinence and cisheterosexism was needed to control so-called human sexuality that often got coded as the quintessential expression of original sin.)

The reinforcement of childis[t] and cisheterosexist relations under Patriarchy has a class function. In the Colonial context it takes on a particular life because Black and Indigenous are coded as inherently devilish and heathen because of religious/ethnic supremacism. But also as a civilizational insistence to justify clearing away class/social relations that didn’t fit the mold necessary for the interests being mounted by Man, including relations of gender/sexual lines, as well as relations between children and adults/elders.

Authoritarian parental mastery and cis/allo-heterosexist control had to take on a particular kind of intensity and regulation for the “backward” peoples who are always already the embodiment of a Fallen Nature that the church and Western institutions must police on behalf of the ruling class’ material interests.

The mistreatment of Black children by the school, nuclear family, police + media narratives, church, and the implications this is having for how Black adults (especially QTGNC ones, bc this is connected to why the “Gay Agenda” idea is used to accuse us of forcing queerness/transness onto kids) get impacted by the State, the family misregulation (foster care/child protective) system, esp for mothers & birthing parents... there is alot to parse.

Again, it is all part of a system. We need to study, struggle, build solidarity, and a revolutionary spirit: and fight for our collective liberation. We can also talk about how rape culture is often upheld by the ascribing of adultlike malicion and sexual proclivities to Black children across genders. This is why the cishet boys aren’t seen as victims of CSA; and young girls and marginalized genders across the spectrum are always victim-blamed or painted as the real predators or deserving of it all.)

In all we gotta fight racial capitalism and cisheterosexism, patriarchy and ableist notions of biology, psychology, neurology, etc that are used to organize many of these institutions and relations: and part of that requires examining how the pathologization of children is used

/end transcription]

[wolf-queer-discourse]

Adventures in Aphobia #1

So I was scrolling through Tumblr the other day (a regrettable mistake as always), and I had the great pleasure of seeing this joyous post.

*deep breath*

Not gonna lie, posts like this make me real pissed. Pissed because the person who posted this exists in a space where they feel comfortable enough to post this online. Pissed because these posts are so common and often face little backlash. And pissed because there’s nothing better than allosexuals condescendingly explaining to asexual people why they’re dirty attention whores who invent their own oppression. Ace people deserve to be defended against this horseshit. Young people see these posts, and it’s extremely damaging to have your identity be nothing more than fuel for people in discourse to mock you and demand you bled in order for them to notice your pain.

Anger aside, many people do not see why this post is wrong, so why is it? Let’s unpack this clusterfuck of bigotry:

“would love to see substantive evidence of systematic “aphobia” that isn’t actually just misogyny, toxic masculinity, or rpe culture.”

God damn, we are not mincing our words here XD. A few things: systematic in bold, which tells you if you do not make a blood sacrifice on the altar of queer pain you will not be taken seriously. Potential nitpick, but systemic and systematic are not the same thing. I believe systemic is the word they’re looking for. Systematic implies a lot more intentionality that can be hard to prove. Systemic merely means that systems, in their current state, do aphobic things, which they absolutely do.

“Aphobia” in quotes is absolutely rich. Not only will this person refuse to acknowledge systemic aphobia, which is only one type, but this poster casts clear doubt upon the mere concept of aphobia in and of itself. We love to see it.

There’s a lot to unpack here. The statement, as clearly condescending as intended, is sort of correct, though it doesn’t mean a whole lot. Systemic oppression is about the systems in a society (government, healthcare, etc) discriminating against people. Systemic oppression is not bigotry faced on a person-to-person level. In short, systematic oppression is something a person experiences in their overall life, while personal discrimination is experienced on a personal level by people who are not singularly in control of the systems. This post boils down the negative comments ace people face into being called “weird”, which is an understatement for sure, but calling a gay person weird isn’t systemic oppression either.

It’s still bad and discriminatory.

This is such a snotty way to dismiss aphobia as some mere, insignificant comment with no meaning as if it doesn’t reinforce society’s painful aphobic views in the same way casual homophobic comments reinforce heteronormativity and society’s hostility toward gay people.

Ace people face discrimination in healthcare, most notably, which is systemic discrimination, but the systemic discrimination of asexuals really ought to be its own post if I’m to nosedive into it. Even if ace people faced no systemic discrimination, it wouldn’t make this point anymore correct. Discrimination is a perfectly valid reason to feel disregarded by society, and often only ace people are denied the right to feel this way and are instead gaslit into admitting what they face is no big deal and they’re just making it up for attention.

The experience of being pressured to have sex when you’re allo vs ace is very different. The vast majority of allo people do not plan to be celibate their whole lives. Many ace people do not want to have sex, ever. “Waiting for sex” in much of western society and in Christianity is seen as pure and honorable. Yet being asexual and never wanting sex is seen as a deviant disorder and people are accused of robbing their partner of sex forever.

There’s really a specific flavor of sexual pressure that is unique to ace people. Sex being to “fix” someone or because they “just need to try it”.

In this respect, aphobic sexual pressure is better compared to that faced by gay people and lesbians. Lesbians especially often can face this same struggle, men pressuring them to have sex because they think lesbians just need to “try it” or to “fix them”. I can imagine this poster would have no issue acknowledging lesbophobia being the root of lesbians coerced into sex with men, yet she does not give ace people the same.

Imagine if someone said (and knowing our fucked world, someone probably has): “Lesbophobia doesn’t exist. It’s just misogyny. Straight women are coerced into sex too!”

It’d be pathetic bullshit. Toxic masculinity, misogyny and many other issues can all tangle into combined messes with other forms of bigotry. Lesbophobia is an experience that deserves to be recognized apart from misogyny, even if the two are linked. Please stop erasing ace people’s experiences with this when it’s not the same thing.

Honestly, though, this post, as trashy as it is, if anything, is perhaps, really asking: Is there any type of aphobic experience that’s inherently exclusive to ace people?

I still wager to go say, yes, yes there is, but I must make an important point first:

Most experiences of queer discrimination are not limited to queer people.

Homophobia and transphobia are both experienced by cishets in certain instances. Feminine straight men can be victims of homophobic harassment. This does not disprove the fact that it’s homophobia just because a straight man is the victim of it. A tall cis woman with broad shoulders and a lower voice may be the victim of transphobic remarks or comments. The basis of these comments is rooted in transphobia, however, so the fact that the victim is cis does not erase the transphobia.

People who argue that experiences ace people complain about can be experienced by allosexuals are not poking a legitimate hole in doing this. Certain experiences related to aphobia can and are experienced by allosexuals. If you do not acknowledge this, then homophobia and transphobia aren’t real because cishet people have sometimes experienced them.

Despite cishets sometimes experiencing queerphobia, most of us acknowledge that their experience of that bigotry, however unfortunate, is not the same as that experienced by actual queer people. It’d be quite homophobic for a feminine straight man to claim he knew just as much about the gay experience as an actual gay man. Similarly, when allosexual people relate experiences that were rooted in aphobia, it’s overstepping a line when they claim asexual discrimination isn’t real because they experienced elements of it too.

Cishet (cishet including allosexuals) people do not experience their doctors telling them their sexuality might be a disorder or caused by trauma. Allo queer people can experience this with their sexualities too.

“using sex appeal to sell products is misogyny, it is not engineered to gross sex-repulsed people, it is meant to objectify women.”

This is a strawman thinner than my last nerve. Uh, what? What ace people are you seeing that literally think sex appeal was engineered to gross-out sex-repulsed people?? I don’t think this is a core argument??

Yes, sex-repulsed ace people sometimes complain about sex appeal in media being uncomfortable. But that’s it. Every time an ace person shares a discomfort of theirs doesn’t mean it’s the entire basis of their oppression. For the love of God, let ace people discuss their experiences without being blow-torched over not being oppressed enough with an individual discomfort. 

BONUS ROUND

(This was in the tags)

“Completely vilifies celibate individuals” 

...no…? What…? Huh…? 

The most charitable interpretation of this vague accusation is that the poster means celibate people face aphobia as well, due to not wanting to have sex. I have no idea how this “vilifies” anyone, but that aside, as said before: people who are not queer can face aphobia. Also worth noting that society treats celibate people way better than ace people, which is really another example of aphobia. Celibate people can be told they’re missing out (which could be at very least related to aphobic ideals), but they’re rarely called broken. Celibacy is seen more as a respected, controlled ideal in allo people, but when ace people want to do it, they’re just mentally ill.

Anyway, the post was aphobic trash, and it needs to be debunked more often. Mocking ace people online is not a good look anymore, guys. Don't be ugly.

[nona-gay-simus-main]

Top 10 Worst LGBTQ+ Tropes

It’s pride month so I’m talking about my least favorite LGBTQ+ tropes in media.

Disclaimer 1: Once again: my post my opinion. If you feel differently, do you. But I will assume you’re probably an asshole.

Disclaimer 2: In this post, I use the word Queer Interchangeably with LGBTQ+. If you’re uncomfortable with that, feel free to move along. If you tag my post with ‘q slur’, I will block you.

1. Bi/ Pan Character That ‘Doesn’t Use Labels.’

Why is it that gay/lesbian/straight people often just get to say what they are, but when it comes to bi/pan characters it becomes some type of extreme wordplay. “Ex lesbian”, “lower on the Kinsey scale”, “oh, I just like people, not gender.” (Yes, those are all real examples.)

Of course, there are people who don’t use specific labels, and of course, you can include that in your writing, but there seems to be a big disparity between multi-gender attracted characters who don’t use labels and everyone else, who weirdly enough, usually gets a specific label. 

Just... say the word, pal. Bisexual. Pansexual. It’s not that hard. It’s not offensive. And I’ve never met any bi/pan person who thought that erasure was all the jazz.

2. Coming Out Stories

I’m not saying that’s there’s no value in coming stories, especially ones that are in tune with the changing times, and especially coming out stories of anyone who isn’t a cis WASPy gay man (or occasionally a cis WASPy lesbian), but also, can we please get... something else. 

Like, literally anything else. Queer romcoms, lesbian mafia, bisexual vampires, gay pirates, asexual/aromantic monster-fighters, trans superheroes, nonbinary thrillers. Anything where we are allowed to just exist past our coming out and the focus isn’t how hard it is to be LGBTQ+.

It just seems like for the longest time Coming Out stories (about cis white gay people) were pretty much the only media we can exist in, and while that’s slowly starting to change in recent years, we are nowhere close to where we could be.

3. Bury Your Gays

If you have twenty characters and ten of them are queer; and if straight characters also die, then sure. I’ll let you kill a couple gays. 

But if you only have one or two queers (that also happen to be a couple) and you kill them (or you kill one half of the couple), we’re gonna have a problem.

Especially if the queer character ends up sacrificing their life to save the Straights. Just represent us in media, where we don’t die or suffer, how hard is that?

4. “Blink and You’ll Miss it” Representation

Oh, so you’re a major franchise, or maybe you’re writing a popular long-running book series and you have FINALLY added a queer character to your gigantic cast?

That’s cool. I mean it sucks it took you this long, but we all have to make progress eventually. So are they a main character? How much does their sexual orientation or gender identity affect their experiences? Who’s their love interest?

Or did you just mean they only show up for one scene and have a single line that confirms their identity, and then they disappear into the nether? 

Yeah, fuck you. That’s not representation. That’s you jerking yourself off for brownie points. Well, I’m not giving them to you.

5. Lesbians With Men

Sure, outlier cases exist, but... why do we gotta keep making stories about them?

If this is your lived experience and you want to explore it in a fictional medium, absolutely, by all means. But most of the time this story is made not by queer women, but... pretty much anyone else and it’s just. Exhausting. 

There’s a reason it’s called a “lesbian.” And if she falls in love with a man, at the very least have the decency to make it clear that she’s exploring her sexuality, and it’s cut and dry case of “turning a lesbian.” Or better yet, don’t write it at all.

6. The Trans “Twist”

Can we stop fetishizing and discriminating against (binary) trans people in this way? Trans people are just people. There’s nothing scandalous about someone being trans, and nobody is trying to trick anyone into anything. 

Stop treating being trans as this huge, insurmountable thing. Especially if your story is set in the last ten years or in an SFF context, and just portray trans folks like normal people. Please.

7. The Token Queer

There’s this group of cis allo straight friends and the one gay guy, who is also usually white, cis, middle class, etc. You know - for diversity. 

Sure, maybe if they were childhood friends, or a superhero team or something (although there’s literally nothing stopping you from making at least one more person in the group queer), but I have never in my life wanted to do anything less than constantly hang out with a group of straight people. 

The vast majority of straight people don’t make me feel safe, and I rarely have more in common with them than I do with other queer people. Also, if one person in a friend group comes out, at least two more will - this has happened to pretty much all my queer friends.

It’s far more likely to see a group of queer friends with one adopted Straight, who is a good ally, then the other way around.

8. The Awkward AroAce

There’s nothing wrong with being aromantic asexual. There’s also nothing wrong with being autistic and struggling in social situations. There’s even nothing wrong with being both of those things at the same time. And some people are indeed like that.

But why does this seem to be the only way to write aroace characters? It’s such a stereotype. 

Being aroace just don’t experience romantic and sexual attraction, it doesn’t mean you can’t make friends, or that you don’t know how to behave socially. Aside from their (lack of) sexual and romantic attractions, aroace people are just people and they come in a variety of personalities.

9. Queer Villains

I actually love queer villains. 

In a lot of stories the villain is the most fun and interesting character them being queer is a way of reclaiming things that have been used to hurt us in the past (and still are, in some cases).

But it’s still pretty problematic when this is the only queer character in the work - whether explicitly or just in coding. 

You can have a queer villain, but make at least one of your heroes queer too.

10. The Non-Human Non-Binary

I think it makes sense that some aliens, robots and otherwise non-human entities are nonbinary. Why would a robot have a human gender? Why would an alien race have the same exact gender and sex divisions as humans do?

But can we also get nonbinary representation in humans? Please? Because I don’t think that an alien is doing much to help us be more accepted, and might, in fact, be even more alienating. (ha-ha, alienating. Get it?)

To end this, because of the time we live in:

A list of organizations dedicated to helping Black people you can support.

[ayy-spec]

Anything to Add?

The final question in this survey was a write-in section for people to leave any additional comments. 113 people responded.

Important/Particularly Interesting Comments

• I hope this goes well for you because you seem nice and if you have any advice for new to the community 15 year olds like me, don't be afraid to share because I'm trying to embrace my sexuality as much as possible but it can be hard when I don't know where to go or turn to to find what I'm supposed to do and where to ask questions and just fully embrass this part of me and it can be hard when I don't even know many if any aspecs so representation is great and it is helpful to hear your experiences and how you handle certain parts, so just keep doing what your doing because it is making a difference [note: 🥺🥺😭]

• i often consider myself more as just aroace rather than aro and ace seperately so i prefer seeing the blue and orange aroace flag over the individual aro and ace flags

• I don't really shorten my identity often with aroace, only when im feeling very romance repulsed and its been a while since I felt romantic attraction. I am a pan-demiromantic asexual. My pan label makes me feel more connected to the lgbt+ community bc it feels like my nonbinary and intersex status doesn't count either. I know I belong in the queer community, but the lgbt+ community is so sexual orientation focused.

• Thank you for having a wide variety of labels to choose from in the options!! I don't see the term aegoromantic very often on things, it feels nice to be known I guess haha

• Thank you for this, i recently started thinking about being in arospec and it was so relieving, all this time i thought something was wrong or maybe i was broken. I'm still trying to learn more about it, and I'm grateful for people willing to teach and help

• didn't realize I hadn't experienced sexual attraction until I finally did and was like "OH, no wonder all my other relationships felt like I was playing pretend"

• I dont often tell people I'm gray aroace. Not because of shame or it not being "as important" (I'm a gay trans dude) but I think because I just feel its a very intimate part of myself, as well as my romanticism and sexuality (in terms of like asexuality) feeling as though it doesn't always need a label. I'm fine just being myself most of the time, a lot of labels can be tricky for myself I think. I'm happy the label exists nonetheless though because Its nice to know I'm not the only one who feels like this.

• I'm queer! But if I'm getting down to the bones of it, I'm pan/ace. Still relearning how to be proud of that, after The Grand Clusterfuck years back.

• even though I would be considered to have an alloromantic orientation, alloace isn't really a term I feel any strong connection or attachment to

• i'd like to add that i do consider myself alloaro and use that label openly but i'd also not consider myself 100% allosexual. i'm questioning my sexuality but even if i do end up feeling more solidly ace-spec i'd still use the alloaro label

• Idk who else does this or if this is interesting enough to write down, but I thought I would! I use Aroace as a label. Other, smaller labels inside that would probably fit me better! Aroace feels too big, like it doesn't *really* define exactly who I am. But at the same time, I prefer using it because more people know what Aroace means (at least compared to myrromantic and myrsexual). I use Aroace so the public can define me. I don't typically use it around my close friends 'cause they already know my idiosyncrasies and where I really am. They already made their own definitions for me, so I don't have to make one for them!

• I'm still figuring myself out, so I leave myself at the blanket terms and hopefully everything'll work out in the end

The rest of the responses are below:

Comments Alerting Me About Typos (that I was then able to resolve)

• There's a typo in your "sexual orientation labels" question, because you have Aroflux listed and not Aceflux, but I didn't want to confuse things so I put Aceflux (which I do use) under Other. I also am polysexual (I flux between polysexual and asexual but I am always aegosexual) but didn't know if I should but it under Other anywhere since it's not an acespec label. I consider my polysexuality tied to me being aego/aceflux though, which is why I mention it here.

• the sexual orientations options are the same of the romantic ones ( for example, there's arovague and arospike in the sexual cathegory)

People Clarifying/Expounding Upon Their Own Identity/Experiences

·  to clarify: i'm unsure whether or not i am demi or aceflux; so i use graysexual since both labels technically fall under that as an umbrella term.

• I’m still a confused gorl and I really only know that I don’t like sex it sexual acts but I do like romantic and sensual acts

• Sex/romance repulsed and I have aesthetic attraction

• I'm also animesexual and fictosexual (and romantic I guess but I don't like using the SAM for myself).

• I have never seen most of these labels, haha, I expect one of them is the one I always forget that's for being aro due to past trauma but people always assume it's romantic/sexual trauma so I don't use it and thus have forgotten it...but that's the essay I'm not usually up for writing: was biromantic but then had several awful life events on top of each other and had a complete breakdown and have been aro since. Unclear if it's permanent but it's been 14 years now. [note: I believe this person is thinking of caedromantic]

• I tend to use the word ace more than asexual because it's shorter, but I don't feel more favorably about one than the other.

• i can't tell the difference between platonic vs romantic attraction, and am unsure if people i have "liked" in the past was romantic, platonic, or a fake stemming from peer pressure.

• Also Gender-Neutral/Agender

• I’m gray-aro but identify more with being biromantic even though I know I’m aro-spec. As for sexual orientation, I’m just completely ace xD

• The fact I'm still trying to figure out my gender makes it harder to pinpoint exactly what my orientations are :( but I usually say I'm queer, and if it's safe: Bi Ace, and if I can get more specific: biromantic grey-asexual

• I also use a platonic label (biplatonic). I use it not in a friendship way, but more like in a QPR way.

• Thank you for doing this! My identity on the aro/ace spectrums has shifted a lot over the years and while I’ve just settled on aroace and queer for the most part, this community is so diverse and under appreciated. People who find joy in/identify with micro-identities are valid and deserve representation!

• I'm still figuring out my romantic orientation but it's looking less allo by the day lmao

• My romantic label is very fluid, but in terms of sexual labels, very sex repulsed Asexual

• Content with just Aspec cause it's difficult to pinpoint anything but cool with both asexual/ace and aromantic/aro

• I think of my romantic orientation as halfway between aromantic and homoromantic

• I'm a polyamorous ace, if there'd be a way to include that sometimes that'd be neat :)

• I am still questioning my identity

• I used to identify as 100% ace but now I have no idea other than that I seem to be pan-ace in some way shape or form so my identity is ???people???

• Sex/romance repulsed and I have aesthetic attraction

• to clarify: i'm unsure whether or not i am demi or aceflux; so i use graysexual since both labels technically fall under that as an umbrella term.

Queer Rights

• Trans rights, baybee 🤠🦂

• I just hope a-spec and aro-spec people will experience less negativity and hate this year <3

• Aspec rights!!

• aspec rights, baby

People Being Nice to Me  (I appreciated this thank you everyone!!)

·  :)

• Have a good day

• Uhhh, cool survey, nice to see a lot of labels.... good job! Nothing I have to add, it was great

• Have fun chief, thank you for your work

• Thank you for creating!

• thanks for the survey! I don't know too many aspec in person so I love participating in things like this about the ace/aro community!

• Thank you for what you’re doing

• just hi :)

• thanks!!

• I really love your blog! Reading your posts always makes me happy :) [note: thank you!]

• Good luck, have a nice day !

• I hope you're having a good day :)

• you're lived and valid af!! have a great day!!!

• Thank you for all your hard work i really appreciate it ☺️

• Drink some water Right Now OP

• Nope, :> hope the best for you.

• Cool survey, 10/10 would survey again.

• 💛

• Have a nice day uwu

• Nope! Have a nice day!

• Thank you for making pride flag edits! They're really nice! [note: thank you!!]

• nope, but this is really cool!!

• ❤️

• Have a good day.

• I think this survey idea is super cool! Definitely a great way to see what sort of aspec people are on tumblr :)

• You are doing the lords work

• Thank you for asking us.

• good luck!

• This is really cute idea :)

• I hope you're having a nice day!

• Good luck in your endevours!

• Thank you for making our community visible!

• Have a good day :3

• Have a good day!!

• Keep doing great stuff!

• Thank you for all the positivity I get from your blog! It's super helpful, keep it up :) [note: thank you!!]

• thanks for doing this. recognition is always nice

• Have fun <3

• Lots of love 💛

• This is a cool project, thanks for doing it and good luck! :)

People Saying They Love Me (and I love you, random a-specs)

·  i love you OP!!!!!

• love you, hope you have a great day

An A-Spec Person Being Rude to Other A-Specs

• If you enjoy sex with your romantic partner then you are not asexual

A Person Who Is Not A-Spec Being Rude To A-Specs

• sweetie im sorry that you're so insecure that you feel like you have to make up new identities to feel better about yourself. if you are a lesbian or bisexual please know that you are welcome in the community, but other than that making thousands of microlabels like this makes a huge joke out of what was once an important and respected group. nobody takes us seriously anymore because of this shit. does labelling your identity like this really help you with anything? demisexual and fraysexual and all this are just fancy words for normal human feelings that everyone has. there is no need to microlabel it.

Other

· [variations of “no” (12)]

• not sure that helps lmao but still hope it does. all the best

• Axolotls (or as I like to call them, asexulotls) are amazing and I love them [Note: the man in question]

• Sorry, I can't remember the names of any blogs that do edits

• Ok random but the colors of the aro/ace flag? The blue and orange one? They’re gorgeous.

• I'm not so sure if I should use the aroace flag, I feel comfortable using both aro and ace flags, but I don't like the colors for the aroace flag :c [note: these are in chronological order, it’s a total coincidence that these comments are together]

• Curious to see where the survey goes

• It would be cool if you could also do some aplatonic-spectrum edits!

• there were fully half of the terms on that list that i had never even seen before. like, everything below litho down to no label was entirely new to me. at some point i will look into those! (but not right now, my brain is full enough at the moment)

• actually had to look up the majority of these orientations. Thank you for the opportunity to learn!

• Gonna reblog and follow and hopefully learn a bit more, about others and myself

Note: The only comment that is not listed in order is the first comment, which I put at the top because I found it the most important. It’s so important that kids and teens have space to explore their identity and learn about themselves. The reason I made this blog in the first place was because I was 19 and working on figuring out my gender and sexuality. Now that I’m a bit older and understand things better, I’m so glad that I’m able to help people in this way. 

I make it a point to be very openly queer in my life and at work because I need LGBTQ+ people, especially youths, to know that we’re here. I’m lucky that I live somewhere that I can be visibly queer and speak about it openly. We are everywhere, and there’s more of us than you think!

Something that I really like about the comments at the top is that they show how diverse we are, and how people use words differently. Some people feel like they’re more aroace than aromantic and asexual separately, and others consider their romantic and sexual orientations to be completely different things.

I definitely relate to the person who identifies are myrromantic and myrsexual with their friends but just says aroace when speaking with people they don’t know as well. I believe a lot of people use different words depending on who they’re speaking with.

[skylights422]

@ace-and-aro-wlw-positivity created a Q&A for aspec authors/writers, and as an aspec author, I am excited to participate and answer as many of their questions as I can. Under a cut since it became really outrageously long.

1. What was your inspiration for your character(s)? Are they modeled on yourself, a person that you know, or a character that’s already been established?

Typically I’d say my characters are a mix of general inspiration from other stories/characters and then bits and pieces taken from myself. I try not to make any of them like a clone of myself or another character, try to mix it up, possibly with mixed success but that is the goal.

2. How much, if any, has your character(s) changed since they were first created? What caused this change?

Oh wow, okay I have characters I still use from grade school and middle school, and those characters have changed/grown a lot. Most notoriously (to me) though are my two fellas Euphranor and Kadri. I created them while daydreaming in middle school while watching those science videos in class about how I could make a more parody-like version of said videos, Kadri being the energetic and comically sadistic teacher and Euphranor being the constantly irritated and foul-tempered student. The core of their designs and personalities haven’t totally changed (Euph is still a hot-head and Kadri still likes to troll him), but they’ve become far more nuanced as characters as their story become more involved and serious. They’ve also become softer characters, with Euph having a Heart of Gold and Kadri being a bit morally grey but generally compassionate and friendly. I think the cause of this change and others comes from a mix of things, for one I simply got older and what I wanted out my characters changed a bit. But also I think it’s because I spent so much time with those characters in my head that I couldn’t help but develop them more fully, which in turn made me want to give them a good story. Also, everyone is definitely more queer now then how they started, largely because I became more aware and comfortable with my own queer identity and spent more time in queer spaces (though with Euph I actually just realized he had to be gay because I every het relationship I envisioned for him fell totally flat and yet imagining him as having crushes on guys just seemed to work better/make more sense, and that was an earlier decision).

4. Do you intend on publishing your story one day? Why, or why not?

I definitely do! I have many, many stories I want to publish, as books or comics or tv shows or films. I’ve always wanted to publish some of writing since it’s one of my main passions and have always taken inspiration from the stories I consumed. I just love writing and would want to be able to do it as my main career, the key will just be figuring out how to focus on one project long enough to finish it. xD

5. Surprise fact! Give a random fact about your character(s), whether it’s their favorite color, food, or even song!

Euphranor loves to sing! He hums to calm himself down and even full on sings to vent his feelings sometimes. Kadri loves literature and video games, and blackberry pie is his favorite food.

6. Admit it, you have a folder on your computer of the various types of picrews you’ve created for your character(s). Would you mind posting a few (or five)?

*VIBRATES* MY TIME HAS COME. I absolutely have way too many picrews of my fellas so I won’t post them all, just two each for the core four of my main novel project. First, Euphranor:

(yes he is a Hufflepuff)

Kadri:

(also since I dragged the Hogwarts houses into this Kadri is Ravenclaw)

Ena:

(I put her in Gryffindor)

And finally, Fiera:

(Right now I have her in Slytherin. She could also be in Ravenclaw though)

7. Time to get serious for a bit. There’s been heavy debate on having non-human characters identify as ace, aro, non-binary, etc., but never actual humans. As someone who’s aspec, how would you explain to someone who’s allo why this can be and is seen as hurtful?

I mean, as a sci-fi fan I definitely love if the non-human characters are queer coded, but it’s definitely important to include human representation as well, and I think there are a few simple reasons for that. One is that queer people are, in fact, humans, and therefore our stories deserve to be told as they are in reality as well as how they could be in fiction. The other is only writing us as inhuman implies you consider our identities as fictitious or too strange for a human to have, and queer people already have to deal with other forms of erasure and invalidation in real life. (Also, not everyone is a fan of sci-fi/fantasy, and they should still be able to read stories where they can see themselves)

8. It’s a sad reality that many stories in mainstream media don’t have characters that are aspec, not to mention without resorting to harmful stereotypes. Besides there being nothing wrong with IDing as aspec, why did you choose to have your character ID as such? What would you tell other authors who’re interested in writing characters that are aspec, but are afraid of offending the community?

I have a huge list of aspec characters, which definitely started happening more once I was aware of my own asexuality (and later, aromanticism), since I realized that I could make my own aro and ace characters and then just went wild with it lol. It’s also easier for me to write since I can actually draw from personal experience somewhat for it. Beyond representation having aro and ace characters also allows you to explore more facets of human emotions/the human experience, so that’s always fun.

As for how I would advise allies looking to write a-spec characters, my main advice would be to remember that we are an incredibly diverse group of people, and so while no one a-spec character will resonate with every a-spec reader, an a-spec character written in good faith will definitely speak to some of us. Write them as an character first, and when it comes to things like how their attraction does or doesn’t work and what they want out of relationships, figure out what works best for them. Really, if you’re concerned your character would be offensive in some way you can always make a post asking about it, many of us are happy to offer constructive advice and appreciate that someone is wanting to put in the effort to write about our experiences. Reading or listening to anecdotes from an array of a-spec people is also a good way of getting ideas of how to portray us, and there are various resources for that (the tags, AUREA collects anecdotes from arospec individuals, and probably more than I can think of offhand)

9. If you’re comfortable with sharing, what is your characters’ identity? Do they use any microlabels? Does theirs reflect your own?

Unsurprisingly I have many characters who are aroace (Fiera is one of them), and Ena is bisexual and gray-aromantic. Kadri was originally supposed to just be bi/pan but has become increasingly aspec, will they end up gray-aro as well as grey-ace? Will they end up as a pan oriented aroace? I don’t know yet, but they sure are a pan a-spec. My most recent project has exclusively aro-spec protagonists, Valentine is aroace, Cedar is demiromantic, Raelene is cupioromantic, and then Clematis and Hadyn are presently just Aro and might stay that way. My aroace characters are often styled after my own aroace experiences, while other a-spec characters aren’t as much.

11. Why do you think that not just representation is important, but GOOD representation? Can you offer any examples?

Well, I think there are a few ways to make ‘good rep’. There is the ‘this character helps bring awareness/educate about the community’ and then there’s ‘this character just resonates with certain a-spec people a lot’, and the main reason I think it’s important is because rep should be for the people they’re representing. So if rep hurts the community or totally fails to be relatable to anyone who’s actually a-spec, then it missed the whole point and is doing just as much to leave the community feeling left in the dust as no rep. Of course things do get complicated when the community is divided on whether the rep is good or not, which I imagine will be a common occurrence, and many examples of rep probably fall into the grey area between Good and Bad, but generally people should aim to tell stories that will help more than hinder the people you are telling your story about. (Although I also think that the long term end goal is to get to the point where there is enough representation that it doesn’t matter if some of it is ‘bad’ or not, since I feel like that is the true state of normalization, but that is sadly not yet the case)

12. What’s the genre of your most recent story? Do you always write in this genre? If so, what other works do you have? If not, why did you pick it?

My most recent story (with Valentine) is fantasy, inspired by shoujo style anime series like Cardcaptor Sakura, while Euph’s story is more dystopian urban fantasy? His exact genre has shifted around a lot and will probably continue to do so. In general, most of my works are fantasy in some way or another. A few are more sci-fi or horror based, but definitely the majority are fantasy whether that be magical girl type stories, urban fantasy, superheroes, or dark fantasy.

14. What’s a brief biography of your character? Is their history, personality, and/or looks similar to your own?

I’m going to go with Fiera here. The short version of her backstory is that she and her older brother were born to neglectful parents, and while their grandmother was attentive emotionally she also lived far away. Her brother discovered magic, long thought forgotten, but killed himself shortly after, leaving Fiera alone and confused. She then made a point to dedicate herself to studying the theory and history of magic in the hope that she may someday understand why her brother would take his own life so suddenly like that. She has a down to earth personality and is very observant, and has a great deal of ambition and focus for tasks. She naturally has a more lighthearted and curious personality, but has become more somber since the death of her brother. While she always struggled with sustaining personal relationships, it’s only recently she started using her power of observation to be more manipulative and always keep a cool, pleasant demeanor. She has a love for fashion and sewing, as well as an interest in chemistry.

She isn’t really based on me at all backstory or appearance wise, and only slightly takes after me personality wise. Our main similarity is that we both can be quietly observant and don’t tend to get outwardly angry very often, and that we are both aroace. But I am nowhere near as focused as her, am terrible at lies/manipulation, and have different interests. I’m also way more prone to energetic rants and blunt statements than she is.

15. What are the themes of your story? Is it a lighthearted adventure, or are we talking deep, ocean-sized levels of angst? Why, or why not, did you choose them?

The tone of Euph’s story is kind of all over the place due to how often I’ve tweaked it, but there are certainly oceans of angst for all the protagonists. There’s just also decided remnants of the wacky humor from when the story was predominantly a comedy, and a lot more scenes of the characters just relaxing or goofing off than might be typical in a high tension drama adventure. My story with Valentine is generally much more lighthearted, though there will be some deeper moments for character development (and also because I want it to have a slightly gothic vibe, just Because)

16. How long have you been writing? Has your style changed from when you first began to now? What are some tips you’d give to those who’re interested in writing a story of their own, be it professionally or as a hobby?

I’ve been writing in some capacity just about as long as I can remember, and so my style has definitely taken various shifts depending on how old I was and what I was taking as my main inspiration at the time. Sometimes I went for more sarcastic and whimsical narration regardless of the events happening of the story, sometimes I went for a more quick modern-ish style, sometimes I would focus more or less on descriptions or dialogue. I don’t really know where I’m at right now though.

What I would advise to anyone wanting to sit down and write is to be patient and kind with yourself. Nine times out of ten what sounds epic in your head will come out at first as clunky and all over the place. But that is pretty much the whole purpose of first drafts; the clunky first draft crawls so the second draft may walk so the third draft may walk a little faster so the final draft may run. The other thing I would advise is to absolutely experiment, and see what works best for you. There is every kind of writing advice out there imaginable, much of it contradictory, so really you just have to mess around with styles and perspective and dialogue and see what happens, which stuff you liked and which stuff you didn’t.

17. What’s your process for writing? Do you plan your story out first, write whatever you want then edit later, or both? How might this help others?

My writing process is pretty much a mishmash of writing whatever comes to me, then planning, then writing, then using a bunch of character building exercises to have fun but make no progress in the plot, then neglect the project for months, then write some more or maybe plan. I don’t know how much this would help others, though I have found when I set goals with deadlines and some external pressure (nanowrimo, reward system implanted by friends, etc) I am far more productive, so perhaps that is something others could try if they struggle with staying on track?

18. Your book’s become quite popular, easily reaching the New York Times Bookseller list, and now, you’ve been picked to lead a writing workshop. It goes swimmingly, and afterward, someone comes and tells you that your book not only inspired them to write a story of their own, but also helped them discover and accept their identity. What’s your reaction?

Mostly I would just be flabbergasted, but also extremely pleased and honored to have been able to provide any kind of help or assistance to my readers.And I would feel very happy for the person, since that sort of inspiration is great to come by.

19. Are there any published stories out there that feature aspec characters that you also read? Do you have any suggestions?

Unfortunately not that I can think of! I am peripherally aware of some ace characters, but they aren’t in stories I personally consume. I hope to find more though!

20. Just for fun, write down a paragraph of your most recent writing. It can be an action-packed scene, some witty dialogue, or a colorful description that you really enjoyed. (Be sure to properly tag any possible triggers!)

Well, my most recent finished work would be the clunky first draft of my novel. So, here’s a silly conversation that entertained me to write:

Once they had bought the food, they went back to the park to eat. 

“You know, Fiera, I have come to a realization.” Kadri said.

“Oh? What’s that?” Fiera asked.

“Store snacks are not as filling as restaurant food, nor as refined, but they are decidedly addictive.” he said, munching on Twizzlers.

“Yep. That’s what makes them store snacks. Plus, I couldn’t get any really nice stuff. I’m not made of money.” Fiera explained.

“Which brings me to my next question, how exactly are you financing our meals? You don’t seem to work a job of any kind.” Kadri said. Fiera was almost surprised that he knew about jobs, but decided not to ask about it. 

“You’re right, I don’t. But my parents leave me about sixty bucks a week so that they can do what they want without me starving to death in their absence. After yesterday and just now, I’m down to like eight bucks, and the next payment comes in three days, so after this stash goes it's dollar store snacks only.” Fiera explained.

“I see. Fascinating. And these drinks you bought us, why are they vitamin drinks?” Kadri said,looking over a vitamin water curiously.

“Because we definitely aren’t going to get any vitamins from chips and candy.”  Fiera said simply.

“There is logic to that, I suppose.” he said. There was silence for a few moments.

“Um… Kadri?” Fiera said after a while.

“Yes, Fiera?” Kadri said.

“You know you can’t eat a whole bag of Twizzlers in one go, right?”  Fiera said.

“I don’t see why not. If it is not going to give me the nutrients I need, it may as well provide me with the maximum level of pleasure it is capable of.” Kadri said.

“Yeah, but you’ll get sick. And we have limited supplies.” Fiera countered. Kadri looked at the bag of Twizzlers in alarm.

“These are poisonous in large doses!?” he exclaimed.

“What? No, not poisonous, they just make you sick because they’re candy. All candy does that if you keep eating it.” Fiera said.

“Commoners lead dangerous lives, it would seem. I shall never forget this betrayal.” He said to the bag of Twizzlers, putting it down and taking the vitamin water instead. 

[famous-aces]

Sun Ra

Who: Le Sony'r Ra (born Herman Poole Blount)

What: Musician and Composer

Where: American (active largely in US)

When: May 22, 1914 - May 30, 1993

(Image Description: a black and white photo of Sun Ra from 1979. He is standing in front of a brick wall that has words spray painted on it, partially blocked by his body. Legible is the word "Sunshine" in huge letters, the "I" dotted with a character or starburst. It is written in such big letters the last few have to be reduced to keep them from running over onto the door. Also legible are the letters "L, A" but the rest of that word is behind Ra. Ra himself is a stern looking, dark-skinned black man, shown here from the chest up. He has a longish face, a smallish mouth and eyes, a broad nose, and a cleft chin. He has a very serious expression.  He is wearing a wool cap, dark on top with a paler ring at the hem. On top of the hat is a huge 3D sun, about the size of his face. Poking out of the sun are a bunch of shiny wires ending on either small stars or pingpong ball sized planets. On his body Ra wears a cape and below that a robe. The robe is made of two distinct materials, mostly something wrinkled or rough, but in the center over his chest is smooth black fabric with white polka dots on which a sun and the planet Saturn have been painted. End ID.) 

He said he was born on Saturn. He wore bright robes and elaborate hats. He was a creature of Ancient Egypt and the unknown future. He never wanted to sleep and never drank. He said his biography was a mystery.  He was very fond of mysteries. 

Sun Ra was also a jazz pianist, composer, and the leader of the Sun Ra Arkestra, a free-jazz big-band. He is also one of the fathers of Afrofuturism, but given the themes he embraced, the outfit, and the Saturn thing you may have guessed that. 

Ra became well known for his musical innovation and uniqueness of instrumentation as well as the drama that characterized his music and persona both on and off the stage. He was active in the jazz scene for roughly forty years from the late 1940s to the early 1990s and he always seemed to be at least a decade ahead in his trends.

Ra was always creating pieces that defied the common and brought together his many complexities of style.  In the 1950s, when he first became a band leader, he began incorporating electric piano (his instrument of choice), tympani, and flute, instruments then unheard of in jazz bands. He later would be among the first, if not the first, to introduce the synthesizer. In the 1960s he began incorporating improvisation into his compositions and became well known for his strange solos. And in the 1980s he integrated earlier works into his performances.

His flair for the dramatic was at its highest on stage where combining Ancient Egyptian and sci-fi themes in sets, dance, and costumes. His performances were huge and eclectic and energetic. As much a spectacle for the eyes as the ears. 

His best loved albums include SuperSonic Jazz (1957), Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy (1963), The Magic City (1966), Atlantis (1969), Astro Black (1972), Space is the Place (1973), Lanquidity (1978), Disco 3000 (1978), Sleeping Beauty (1979), Nuclear War (1982), and The Sun Ra Arkestra Meets Salah Ragab in Egypt (1983). There are best of albums like Sun Ra: Singles 1952-1991 (2016) and In the Orbit of Ra (2014). I don't know anything about jazz (free or otherwise) but I did like listening to his stuff, it is very cool and weird.

His personality was as exciting and strange as his music. He had an "equation" rather than a philosophy. Whatever he called it, his thinking was a very New Age, UFO Religion mindset although he was getting into these themes in the 1950s, well before those were popular. His personal equation combined many different sources with his own thoughts to find the path that, one biographer states, "leads beyond the stars." He drew heavily on Ancient Egyptian mythology and mysticism, channeling, black nationalism, Rosicrucianism, Kabbalah, Zen Buddhism, with a very heavy lean into Gnosticism. He frowned on most organized religions but was a highly spiritual being.  He was very much pro-civil rights but became disillusioned with the movement. Perhaps the most important things to him were outer space and music. He was always looking both to the distant past and far future.

His theories and equations were his own and explanations never gave a full picture. He took the role of eccentric teacher and apparently played the part well. He had many followers, especially among musicians. Overall, it seems, he embraced the strange and unknown and wore his identity with pride. He was queer and contentedly so.

He would not have been out of place today. Maybe he was from Saturn, but he could have easily been from the future.

(Image Description: the album art for Atlantis. It is all in yellows and purples.  It says "An Intergalactic Space Travel in Sound" on the top of the cover. Below that and on the left it says "Sun Ra and his Astro Infinity Arkestra". To the right it says "Atlantis". Below that is shows an amorphous blob of eyeballs and flame.  End ID) 

Probable Orientation: Aroace 

He is another one that aphobes say cannot be ace because they like him too much. They like and respect him so he cannot be sexually abnormal. They can accept him as queer, but aroace is too far. There are many who now accept him to be asexual, but many others who hold fast to their aphobia. Those people constantly claim that he was a sexual entity of some kind despite Ra's own profession to being "nonsexual.".

His queerness was noted before his persona was formed. In 1943 after having a nervous breakdown his doctor accused him of being "psychopathic" and "sexually perverted" because of his being queer. The same doctor also professed Ra (then Blount) was "a well-educated colored intellectual," evidence that his "psychopathy" and "perversion" were rooted in queerness, not something actually wrong with his mental health.

Over the years he had close confidants among his Arkestra musicians and other musical professionals. These were some of the people he was closest to in the world and all of these relationships were platonic, seemingly none I would classify as queerplatonic.  All of these confidants noted there was never any romantic or sexual partners they knew of in his life but some have asserted either he was too busy, he just never talked about it/told them (unlikely because he was willing to discuss just about anything which will be highlighted in the quotes), or this was part of his self-denial (he never did drugs or drank and liked to Go Without). Some people in his life assumed Ra as gay (and allo). He was more interested in music than relationships and role as teacher rather than as sexual/romantic partner.

But most of his time was spent with music.  His music involved a lot of talk of love but it was always a larger concept than romantic love. Brotherhood, universal acceptance, things like that.

But this should not be debate. Again, he basically said he was asexual in that he literally said he was "nonsexual.". 

(Image Description: a color photo of Sun Ra in his costume from Space is the Place. He stands tall with his head tipped up, again serious faced. He has his arms crossed over his chest like a mummy. He is wearing red robes with yellow sleeves that go to the floor. He wears bracelets, rings, and gold shoulder pads. On his head he wears a huge tall headdress. It looks very similar to a pharaoh's crown. Part looks like the lower part of an Egyptian headdress, like the thing the Sphinx wears, and it is striped shiny gold and black.  Sitting high on his forehead is a gold and jeweled crown piece and on top of that going probably two feet or so above his head is a gold pronged structure with a gold orb in the middle of the prongs. End ID) 

“I don’t believe that something like that [asexuality] exists. Everybody has his or her sexual orientation, be it secret or open ... I don’t think I ever talked about his sex life, but I am pretty sure that he knew Fernando [Vargas, a sound engineer] and I were a gay couple. It made no difference for him, so he was not like a religious fundamentalist who would object to work with people like us, you know. He was just the kind of a guy, if Fernando was drinking wine, he wouldn’t have wine. I heard that none of the guys was ever using drugs. At least they didn’t do it in the studio, but we did have them sleeping overnight. He seemed to be with a pretty clean group.”

-Warren Allen Smith, studio owner and friend of Sun Ra's. (Despite not believing in it Smith basically points out that Ra could have been asexual. He never talked about his sex life, spent the night in a platonic group, Smith also mentioned in the same interview that Vargas and Ra would spend long nights alone just talking about music, that seemed to be what Ra wanted to do. To talk and philosophize.  It seems his sexlessness was not about being straight edge.)

"[Vargas was] a good gossip [who would] tell stories about the pope’s testicles." 

-Warren Allen Smith (he also describes Vargas as being "outgoing" and "unreservedly gay". The point here is that these men were close friends of Ra's.  And Ra was perfectly into this kind of discussion. Indeed he told Vargas and Smith about his own testicles, one of which was undescended. He was not afraid to be completely open about himself and his body.  He did not shy away from sex or sexuality, he just wasn't interested in it. It would be out of character for him to avoid talk about his sex life or bring around a romantic partner.)

"Sun Ra abolished sleep from his 'so-called life,' just as he had come to do without the distractions of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, women [sex]."

-John Szwed (Ra biographer in his book Space Is the Place: The Lives and Times of Sun Ra) 

"I have heard from Damon Choice and others that Sun Ra used to turn to his Arkestra and declare: Leaders will ask you to give up your lives for them, I ask only if you’ll give up your Death for me? Nothing that is essentially incorporated into human being – not sex, not Death, not religion, or money – nothing that we are or have been is beyond evaporation as our ontology catches up with our time." 

-Thomas Stanley (biographer in his book The Execution of Sun Ra) (In other words Ra saw sex as inessential to human nature)

"A gimmick."

-Sun Ra on sexual intercourse

“I have never been able to think of sex as a part of my life though I have tried to but just wasn’t interested.”

-Sun Ra (Nuff said)

(Image Description: a photo of Sun Ra at his keyboard. He is wearing a beaded headdress and shiny rainbow robes. He has his eyes shut, he looks calm, and he has his keyboard at a strange angle as he plays.  End ID) 

[lilybaud]

So I'm curious what oppression do asexual people face? I do understand there are some minor discrimination similar to homosexuality like being told it's a phase, but there have 0 laws against i, very few if any deaths because of it, few forced marriages. Maybe there have been cases of corrective rape?

sorry i took a few days to answer this -- i wanted time to give you a thoughtful response! this is kinda a version of an ask i answered last month, but i hope it helps answer your question!

here are some good posts that explain better than me:

https://livebloggingmydescentintomadness.tumblr.com/post/148453657895/the-aphobia-masterpost (This one goes into ace history, as well as many other topics – big recommend)

https://newt–x.tumblr.com/post/183606679191/a-spec-people-dont-experience-oppression (includes more comments/edits on the above)

So how are aces oppressed?

Let’s start with medical discrimmination: asexuality is classified as a mental disorder that you can get diagnosed with.  Although the DSM-5 says that asexuality is a valid identity, it still lists hypoactive sexual disorder as – well, a disorder.  This is basically defined as when someone is disinterested in sexual activity, and this disinterest causes them distress.  This is the same boat that homosexuality was in until a few decades ago – and obviously, aphobia (and homophobia) are very likely to make people feel “distressed” about their sexual identity (I know that I do!)  Imagine going to a psychiatrist and having them tell you that your orientation is a disorder that needs to be fixed: not great.

Even when ace people are not being explicitly diagnosed with Being an Asexual Disease, asexuals can often get into hostile medical situations, particularly in mental health settings.  I have had several appointments with psychiatrists, counselors, and the like that were meant to be about unrelated topics, but when it came out that I was ace, the conversation turned to why this was a sign of isolation/pathology/other fuckedupedness.  Other aces might be able to better speak about their experiences in this area, as I often avoid bringing up the topic in medical settings for this reason.

the discrimmination you’re talking about

Asexual people, particularly (but not only) female-identifying aces, have also long (long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) been targets of corrective rape and sexual assault. Here’s a good (altho far from exhaustive) HuffPost article on the subject.  Corrective rape is a huge issue.  This is a very prevalent fear for a lot of ace people, who also face other types of violence.  A really horrible and tragic example is the murder of ace teen Bianca Devins last year by a man that she refused to sleep with (I won’t post links because they’re pretty upsetting) -- a death that aphobes online are still making terrifying comments about.

So yes! Ace ppl do actually face violence and death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here’s a post that talks about why it’s hard to be an ace PoC (like me!)

Tl;dr, many people don’t know what asexuality is – it’s sometimes called an “invisible identity.”  But that doesn’t mean ace people aren’t discrimminated against as aces.

Exclusion from the LGBTQIA+ community

As I’m sure you know, many fellow people in the queer community hate ace people.  There’s a perception that ace people are being special snowflakes, that we are basically straight, that we are not oppressed enough to be part of the community, that we diminish the importance of other sexual orientations, and on and on.  This is really hard for ace people, because we seek queer spaces, spaces that are supposed to be safe for marginalized identities, are often those that are most explicitly anti-ace.  

In addition, some in the queer community used to identify as ace because they had internalized homophobia or other things, and view asexuality as a cover for those feelings based on their own experiences.

From queer tumblr bloggers I follow to comments by queer friends and acquaintances, I’ve personally had spaces that I thought were safe revealed to be aphobic.  That’s a pretty upsetting experience – I don’t talk about being ace very often, but it’s devastating to know that people you encounter in your everyday life spend so much time thinking about how much they hate people like you.

All this leads to many ace people being scared and unhappy.  In a UK government survey of LGBTQIA+ individuals, asexuals were the group least likely to be “open” about their identity (at 89% reporting that they were not open).  Cis aces were the least comfortable being queer in the UK, and had the lowest life satisfaction scores, out of all cis responders (the survey did not break down the responses of trans responders into allo/ace).

(Side note – many ace people emphasize other parts of their identities in order to participate in queer spaces.  For example, if pressed in a pride group or seminar or friendly gathering or etc., I might just say I’m bi.  This sucks too!  All parts of your identity are legitimate and that should go without saying?)

Personally, there are few environments where I am comfortable with people knowing that I am ace.  I don’t wear obvious pride gear, and I don’t call myself ace when I’m in LGBT+ groups.  I’ve never come out to a romantic or sexual partner as ace.  My sexual experiences have been highly traumatizing in part because of my identity.  Only a few of my closest friends know that I’m ace.  The negative perceptions of ace people, particularly those in the queer community, are main causes of this.

Why do we need to be oppressed to be let in?

One of exclusionists’ favorite sticking points is that aces aren’t oppressed enough to be part of the queer community.  We do face discrimination in major ways – see above.  But this raises a question: why do we have to be oppressed to be welcomed into LGBTQIA+ spaces?  What qualifies as oppression?  Is societal oppression “enough,” or does every ace person have to be personally subjected to a hate crime?  I’m not sure if this line of thought comes from a genuine belief that society has to personally take a shit in your bed every day for you to even think about feeling comfortable in queer spaces, or if it is just cover for an instinctive dislike of ace people.  Regardless, it’s something to think about.  To quote the first masterpost linked at top:

“Nobody is trying to say that asexuals have it “as bad” or worse than gay or trans people, but we don’t HAVE to “have it worse” to be included and for our experiences to have merit without being compared to anyone else’s. Let me say that again: our experiences have merit without being compared to anyone else’s. “

Anyway thanks for your question!  I don’t know if this helps or changes your mind on the topic.  Please reach out if you have any other questions about my experiences as an ace person!

[blackwoolncrown]

This is so interesting. Much of what I know about Asexuality is from my (ex) best friend who told me that by having crushes and telling her about them, I oppressed her in a sense. At the time I didn't realize how toxic she was in my life but ultimately my knowledge about Asexuality comes from her. That she is inherently queer and has always identified w the community, stuff like that. Some things she said that kind of pierced me hurtfully was that she considered all allosexuals stupid and oppres

“and oppressive, which made me wonder why we were friends. I did understand that she felt incredibly pressured to have sex and that it was lumped into our society and thrown everywhere. I also knew she was dealing with pressures of marriage from society and she was worried about having to have sex with someone bc our society expects that in relationships. I mentioned once that after a trauma I experienced (murder of a close friend) I was ace for a while (wrong wording) bc I couldn't feel any (2)“

“(3) i couldn't experience any sexual urges anymore much less imagine that as a good thing. I was completely dead inside for a bit. She tried not to offend but she did mention that Asexuality isn't something that can come and go in phases like the effects on your libido after a trauma, that being ace is an identity defined from your being and isn't negotiable. Kind of like being gay, where it's not something that can be separated from yourself or you can change if you wanted to. I stopped saying“

“(4)stopped saying it that way. I kind of understood what she meant and honestly shouldn't have used the word ace to describe that year for myself. She was right, I knew that feeling that way wasn't normal for me and so probably couldn't use that word as a verb or adjective, it's more an identity. What do you think? That's as far as I'm familiar with the term. We're no longer friends. One thing I'll never forget is how after I came out to her @ 19, she said, Well You'll always be straight to me.“

First off, I think Ace as an identity and ‘Asexuality’ as a biological occurrence need to be understood as interlinked but still somewhat separate, because ‘Asexuality’ as a state/phenom happens for a lot of reasons, at different durations of people’s lives. And I think the most troublesome dialogue out of the Ace community recently is that ‘all forms, durations and conditions of Asexuality are ‘Ace The Identity’.

I think that Ace activism should be a thing because when someone lacks sex drive or sexual activity in their life there’s a damaging, unnecessary narrative that tells them they’re damaged, or lame, or somehow lacking, and that’s really toxic. I also think that our hypersexual and exploitative society has inundated people with itself that unless they have experience otherwise, they view ‘sex’ and sexuality through the lens that’s been shown them, and logically recoil from that-- but in some cases cannot distinguish ‘sexuality the human behavior’ from ‘sexuality as it’s depicted socially/in media’.

I also think that the experience you had is an interesting example. Because there are two facets of the working definition (in general) of Ace that are there as the discourse evolved (both manipulatively and honestly) to move away from MOGAI spaces which have been criticized for, among other things, convincing people that ‘Ace The Identity’ included things like trauma, paranoia, depression etc - again IT IS HARMFUL TO IDENTIFY *AS* ONE’S TRAUMA OR MENTAL ILLNESS. Anyway those points are now:

1. All durations (lifetime, changing, fluctuating) of Asexual behavior qualify one as Ace The Identity 

and to make that ‘real’,

2. All persons exhibiting Asexual behavior are Ace The Identity, even in cases where they know the reason has to do with illness or trauma.

and conflictingly,

3. Aceness **does not mean sex repulsion**

This raises multiple questions. How often an interval are we measuring against to determine someone’s aceness as real? At that point, what is the assumed interval/amount of sexual desire assumed of an ‘allo’ (this is not a real thing, literally everyone has different amounts of sex and varying levels of sexual desire, also at different times in life)? You see, when they started to say you could be Ace but still experience attraction ~under certain conditions~ (aka many extended MOGAI identities) that means that both ‘no sexual attraction’ and ‘some sexual attraction’ qualify as Ace. That...kind of makes everyone ace. If Asexuality is a spectrum, then there has to be a bar somewhere where it ticks over to ‘Not Asexual’. Kind of how sexuality is a spectrum, but Cis and Het is where it ticks back over to ‘not LGBT’. So where is that point?

Back to the example though, what I want to point out is that your friend basically suggested that just hearing about sex was oppressive--why would that be, unless she’s not sex repulsed? Being sex repulsed is a symptom of trauma, so by my personal opinion she has PTSD- she’s not Ace The Identity. However, again now the definition has expanded to include Mental Illnesses which is laughable because at that point that’s a Neurodivergence issue, which is a different community (yep, they overlap bc we’re human but again not all marginalized communities is the same!!). All that aside, that would make her argument that you’re not Ace oppressive. 

Before any of the recent discourse back when I was more involved in the community it was stated and agreed on that actually, yes, Aceness can fluctuate like any other identity can fluctuate. So here we are again. It’s Ace if you’r always Ace or if you’re only Ace sometimes and Ace if it’s ‘completely no to sex’ or ‘sometimes if you really like someone’ or even if ‘you’re romantically attracted to the same sex but still have internalized homophobia’.This is just messy and way too broad. I think social justice clout and the goodheartedness of people just trying to be inclusive have muddied what is a co-opting of LGBT dialogue that covers up a total lack of intersectional understanding, a history of general messiness and a LOT of unresolved trauma being covered up as an ID as a coping mechanism, which is very understandable but honestly kind of a huge issue. It truly tricked a lot of people out of exploring their inner issues or past or just figuring themselves out, and continues to do so. I absolutely believe there are people who are just Ace, but I also believe there are a lot of children (teens) and juvenile, not-fully-developed (!! BRAIN DEVELOPMENT DOESN’T EVEN END UNTIL YOU’RE ABOUT 22-25 PEOPLE !!) adults who think that if they don’t feel attraction constantly-like-on-tv and or at all at their age that they’re Asexual which just...no.

[aspecpplarebeautiful]

Less of a question and more of a small story. Me and my queer platonic partner have known each other for about six years. A few months back, my platonic affection for them shifted into alterous. I love them, I honestly do, and I daydream often about what it'd be like to live with them the way we sometimes talk about. It'd want to do all of the sappy domestic shit like snuggling and sleeping next to each other and splitting up the cooking and chores. I guess when I thought deeper on this I figured it just started to sound like marriage, and I started to panic, and wondered if that meant I was actually in love with them romantically. I started worrying I'd have to marry them to ever get that sort of thing. But thinking about it further, I'm still repulsed by the idea of participating in all the romantic or sex stuff. I'd never want to kiss them on the lips or anything. And sleeping in the same bed has always been a platonic action to me (me and my grandmother used to share one when I was young because it helped my insomnia to have a person or a pet nearby). Hell, I actively want to meet and befriend their future wife and be able to get along with her. There's no prospective jealously. We managed to figure this out in a conversation so everything's good now but I guess I still have a lot of work to do with my internalized aphobia. Anyway I guess I just wanted to know how common it is to want to like,, platonically marry someone I guess? Like do a lot of aro/ace people hate the idea of being alone the way I do and want to live closely with a roommate/partner, but without the expectation of romance or sex? Are my desires clingy, co-dependent, or too-much? (My partner seems okay with them, but they aren't a-spec in any way so I worry they might start to grate when they actually get to a place they feel comfortable openly dating women). Should I be trying to reign them in or back off? Honest question I'm ND and not always the best with social ques or expectations.

I don't think I've ever seen it asked in a survey or anything like that, but there are definitely a lot of aros around who do still want some kind of life partner, and the idea of marrying someone in a platonic way, or living together and things like that are things that definitely appeal to a lot of aros too. Alterous feelings also definitely are not uncommon among aros in QPRs.

Wanting thee things you're talking about here isn't clingy or co-dependent. Being clingy or codependent in a relationship has more to do with the relationship dynamic itself, so the partner who has trouble letting their partner do things without them, or being overly needy, or being too dependent on a partner to the point where you're not taking proper care of yourself or can't.

Wanting a life partner, liking the idea of getting married, sleeping in the same bed, splitting the cooking etc. are actually all very healthy things to want in a relationship. And would be a healthy dynamic.

And if your partner wants the same things you do, then that's just a compatible relationship. And if they're acting like they're OK or happy with how things are between you, then it's likely they are.

Definitely I always encourage good communication, so that would be things like making it clear to your partner what you want and making sure you're on the same page. And if not, figuring out what would work for both of you if possible. But this is all just part of any kind of relationship including platonic ones and QPRs. But if you've done that already, then I think you're in a good spot.

As for if things may change when your partner starts dating women, I wouldn't assume anything. Of course you can never predict the future, but that's not the common story I hear. Usually when people have a very close relationship they value it and allo people are no different.

All the best, Anon! Good luck!

[wolf-queer-discourse]

Adventures in Aphobia #3

My last two Adventures in Aphobia both took on similar flavors of eye-rolling at shameless, obvious bigotry to anyone willing to look or care. But today, I found a different type of aphobia, and I’m actually eager to talk about this one. Have a read of this first.

Look, the bar of respect for ace people is so low it’s all the way in hell, but I mean, to many people, especially allosexual people, they may look at this post and think, “No, this isn’t aphobia. The poster wasn’t blatantly cruel.” But what some fail to realize is that politeness can be the thinnest of veils over the ugliest of takes. Polite bigotry gaslights the victims into thinking they can’t be upset about this.

So what’s the deal with this post?

PARAGRAPH #1 starts off innocently enough, saying ace discourse wouldn’t exist if people recognized complex relationships to sex and relationships. Even taken on its own, I do not agree with this. Ace discourse ranges all the way from outright denial of asexual existence to the strong hatred for and exclusion of aces from the queer community. Nearly everyone recognizes people have complex relationships to sex...that...that doesn’t mean ace people won’t be discriminated against. In fact, it’s an argument aphobes use constantly to try and gaslight ace people into erasing themselves. Ace discourse comes from a lot of places, but at the end of the day, it all stems from people’s refusal to acknowledge ace people and their unique experiences. This poster absolutely does not get to say “IT’s CoMpLicAteD”, and expect ace people to just disappear. Honestly, it’d be better and more honest if they said “Lol, ace people should go fuck themselves and hop to the back of the line with everyone else.”

PARAGRAPH #2 and #3 are not very objectionable on their own. Everything said is true. Society has very complicated views on sex, and life happens to all people. The ugly part of this is that the poster is setting up an argument here in which they will hand wave ace people into the “everyone else” crowd and pretend as if we’re all just too similar and no labels should even exist.

This is literally what enby-phobes do. They say “Well, gender is COMPLICATED”, which is true, but then they say “So like...aren’t we all really nonbinary when we think about it? Why should enby people label themselves?” I swear we’ve all seen this. The poster is agender. This argument could easily be whipped in their face. Different forms of bigotry can share very clear overlaps, and it’s very important to acknowledge where these arguments come from and why they exist. It exists as a way to shut people up. It happens to bi people too! Every day, people come out as bi and someone tells them “pff, everyone thinks girls are hot. I had a crush on my best friend once, that doesn’t mean I’m not straight! All people are like this!” Let’s call out this erasure where we see it. It’s not the same thing, and if anyone saying stuff like this truly believes what they’re saying, maybe they’re the ones who need to reevaluate their own identity.

PARAGRAPH #4 dips its ugly toes straight into blatant aphobia, having the gall to call ace and aro people “obsessed” with pretending their relationships with sex and romance are wholly unique and different. Nah, fuck right off with that bullshit. The poster even goes on to say ace people have created entire new social classes. Uh...WHAT? Is there some secret ace society with a caste system living in the shadows?? What is this person talking about?? I suppose you can’t be a true bigot unless you have some vague grievance to weakly hand-gesture at that you couldn’t prove given 20 years to do so. For the love of my sanity, just say you hate ace people! It’s okay! (I mean, not actually, but Jesus Christ does it save us all some time). They also say things like “somehow excluded from”. Replace asexual people with nonbinary people and take a joyride through this section, because the arguments are scarily similar. What would it take for this poster to acknowledge ace and aro people have their own experiences? Seriously, what? What holds you back from doing this?

It’s also funny to note the actual lack of substance to this argument. The poster is not giving any specific examples or even bringing up what being ace and aro mean. Yes, there is a pretty noticeable difference between feeling sexual attraction and not feeling sexual attraction. How many “allo” people do you know that say they’ve NEVER experienced this? Come on. The poster reduces asexuality and aromanticism down to allo people’s, in their own words, hyper-specific contexts where they don’t want sex or love. At least the poster admits any circumstance that allo people are comparable to ace people are extremely specific. But for real, are we hinging a whole argument on a few very specific examples of allo people having some similarity to ace people?

“Nothing about your relationship to sex or love makes you more or less LGBT. If you are gay and don’t want to have sex, ever, you are still gay. “

Mini strawman alert for the idea any ace person thinks you’re less gay if you’re also ace. And bonus points for an aphobe who refuses to use the definition of asexuality: not experiencing sexual attraction, and instead goes for “don’t want to have sex”. For the last. Fucking. Time. Not wanting to have sex and being asexual are NOT the same. Don’t make me pour gasoline in my eyes every time I see this.

After this, the poster goes on a tangent, which by the tone, seems to think it's very inspiring, and says no matter how you want to have sex (including only certain days of the week), you’re still straight! It’s so fucking condescending and gross to talk ace people out of their own identity like this.

“EVERY person who is heterosexual is different in how they perform or experience.”

Oh. My. GOD. THEY DIDN’T EVEN SAY STRAIGHT. THEY SAID HETEROSEXUAL. WUGGYUEGYUG. God help me. Can one be both bisexual and heterosexual? No…? Okay. So then. How is one both asexual AND heterosexual? What single brain cell in this poster’s head was responsible for this Chad of a sentence? I—

*deep breath* 

So. It’s interesting how the poster says “perform or experience it”. Asexuality is an identity. It is not a performance, and it is not defined by your actions. A straight person not having sex does not become asexual. And sure...people with the same label can experience their sexuality differently, but...to a point, guys. You can’t experience your sexuality out of the DEFINITION of the label. Heterosexual: Sexual attraction to the opposite gender. Asexual: Sexual attraction to no one. If a “heterosexual” isn’t sexually attracted to anyone, they are by definition, not heterosexual. It takes insane mental gymnastics to make this argument, so A for flexibility, I guess? 

“Gayness, straightness, and bisexuality are not defined by HOW you do or don’t want sex or HOW you do or don’t want to date, it’s just defined by WHO you want to be with.”

The first part of the sentence is correct, but it also defeats this person’s entire argument. Ace people AGREE with this. Being asexual is not the act of not having sex!! It’s not experiencing sexual attraction! You can google this! The second part of the sentence is mostly correct, depending on your interpretation. The issue is in part with the words the poster used: gayness, straightness and bisexuality. These words are not all equivalents. Gay could refer to sexual and or romantic orientation. Thus an ace gay person. Straightness is not actually an equal word to gayness. This is because straight is an exclusive term for a normative sexuality (in society’s eyes) in terms of sexual and romantic attraction. Some ace people DO call themselves straight, though it’s inaccurate. Ace people can be heteroromantic, but because being straight is so exclusive, you need to be both sexually AND romantically attracted to only the opposite gender.

The post basically ends telling ace people they’re all actually straight and were just confused the whole time. Lovely. And an erasure of gay aces too! Believe it or not, gay ace people do not like having their ace identities erased. Who’d have guessed?

Honestly, if anything this post is just kind of sad. A sad reflection of what people believe and how they truly do not see their own bigotry. They believe they’re freeing ace people from an incorrect label. They’re the heroes.

They’ll say “it’s okay, you’re not asexual” as if they've like...lifted a burden off of ace people. Like, “Oh, you think I’m not asexual? Cool, cool. Glad you cleared that up for me!” It’s sad how aphobes think, some very genuinely, that asexuality is just some high school party that went off the rails, and we’re all just coming out of the drunken haze, ready to go home. Ready to all laugh about it later, tease one another about how wild and silly it all was. 

Having your identity erased like this is fucking horrible, and I hope people like this can take a look in the mirror and see themselves clearly. All ace and aro people have a right to their identity, whether gay, bi, heteroromantic or anything else. End of story.

[queenofthecommunistcannibals]

@yikes-trademarked

i mean yeah, the post has nothing to do with it just comes across as a bit of a slap in the face to people who are genuinely oppressed in a modern day society. how are asexuals ‘neglected’ and ‘isolated’? so most people experience sexual attraction and you don’t, whoop de doo. nobody actually cares if you do or don’t experience sexual attraction. if you could please give me an actual, real life, not someone-calling-you-a-plant-online example of asexual discrimination then i’ll take back my words

___

@yikes-trademarked I super love how instead of apologizing you are doubling down. Okay. I'll give you examples. Here are some general prejudices that affect aro and ace people. They aren't in any real order.

•Until the DSM V asexuality was considered a mental illness. Despite the fact that now we are "allowed" to "identify" as asexual HSDD (Hypoactive sexual desire disorder) is STILL considered a disorder. So instead of trying to help a person accept themselves as asexual allosexual (nonace) doctors will try to "fix" someone if they want to. Asexuality is still seen as something to be cured. It is still a dysfunction in their eyes, they just hide their prejudice a little better.

•Asexuals have been harrassed and raped in an attempt to fix them. Asexuals and aromantics are often seen as a "challenge" to be harassed into affection.

•Mainstream Christianity discriminates against asexuals as they do other queer identities. Here is one quote from a document called "Asexuality and Christianity" produced for Asexual Awareness Week (the fact that we get "awareness" rather than "pride" ain't great either)

"While celibacy is officially considered a good stance in religion, declaring oneself disinterested in sex is often met with disapproval. Asexuals have been told that they are rejecting God's gift of sexuality, that they are just as bad as homosexuals because they are not 'normal'...or people decide to pray to God for them to be fixed or for the Almighty to send the right person for them to fall in love with."

Or from the horse's mouth "Question: What do you call a person who is asexual? Answer: Not a person. Asexual people do not exist. Sexuality is a gift from God and thus a fundamental part of our human identity. Those who repress their sexuality are not living as God created them to be: fully alive and well." This was written by two Jesuit priests David Nantais and Scott Opperman. In other religions this is also often true. I know more about Christianity personally but I know similar doctrines exist in Islam and Orthodox Judaism. Not to mention the notion that marriage is the only acceptable option in these religions (unless you are Catholic clergy) and children are a necessity. Hell, according to the conservative traditional gender roles of these religions even an otherwise gender conforming aro/ace doesn't fit (not marrying, no kids, no family, all that).

•Dehumanization from all sides. We are told to be human is to love and that love is nearly always put in romantic or sexual context. Indeed NOT being capable of or experiencing romantic or sexual love is often used as shorthand for someone being a bad person (As Dexter [from Dexter], for example, becomes more sympathetic he develops the ability to feel sexual/romantic love. Robots in fiction can be asexual and aromantic but only if you want to show them as apart from humanity. Once you want to make it clear they have a soul they have to experience some kind of romantic urge or longing. Like Data from Star Trek) An article in Psychology Today by Dr. Gordon Hodson Ph.D. (who specializes in studying dehumanization) postulates (with a study to back it up) that asexuals are the most dehumanized sexual minority.

•On the specifically romantic asexual front in many places do not consider a marriage valid until it has been consumated.

•In media in which asexuality and aromanticism are not proof of evil they are judged to be not real. Here is one of if not our first actual representation in media. In the film Nymphomaniac the SELF-PROCLAIMED asexual character turns out to be a rapist who the protagonist murders in what is supposed to be a "woo! You go girl!" moment. AT BEST this says asexuals aren't real. We're just sexually repressed misanthropes. It might also imply that asexuals are base animals who are waiting to strike. THAT IS ONE OF THE FEW TIMES THE WORD ASEXUAL IS EVEN USED IN MAINSTREAM FILM! I cannot think of a single other.

•We are erased constantly in real life and in media. Here are two examples of active erasure, Jughead Jones (canonly aro/ace in the comics and coded as such since day one) was straight-washed for Riverdale. You may say "oh maybe they didn't know" (which is bullshit) then consider example two: Sherlock Holmes. Holmes (who I adore) has long been one of the few characters that has been "allowed" to aro/aces, but when the creators of BBC's Sherlock were explicitly asked if he was aro/ace they said he absolutely wasn't.

This is part of what I am talking about. We are not allowed to exist. We are invisible.

•Asexuals and aromantics are somehow toxic in our mere existence. We make kids think it is okay to be like us and are poisoning their young minds. We hate sex and thus are against the sex positivity movement.

•"Virgin" is an insult and we are treated as constant children. Somehow we have failed to grow up and cannot be treated as adults.

•And here is what I was really talking about SOCIETY IS NOT MADE FOR US! CULTURE IS NOT CONDUSIVE TO OUR EXISTENCES! I didn't know asexuality was an option until I was about 24. And before that I, like many aro/ace people, put myself in a lot of situations and relationships to "fix" myself. To make myself normal. My first and only sexual encounter was one of the things that sent me spiralling into a serious depression. I didn't know that it was okay to not be interested and to say "no.". So I said "okay" because I thought it was what I had to do to be a normal teenager. I don't know if I ever shared that online before so congrats you got me so mad I revisited my personal trauma. From childhood we are told falling in love is the ultimate reward. As teens we are told we gotta get laaaaaid. As adults not being involved in a sexual/romantic (often indistinguishable) relationship is WEIRD and TROUBLING. I have been told by people who don't know I am asexual that asexual people are "too weird" or even "creepy." The idea that someone might not be capable of romantic love sets off people's red flags that said aromantic might be crazy.

•We are surrounded by sex and romance constantly. Constantly. It is inescapable. In your real life I want you to pay attention to romantic or sexual imagry and storylines around you. There is no break. No alternative. This is what I mean by "invisible at best."

•Also, we are denied a history. It is very hard to prove absence but often sexless figures are immediately dubbed to be gay/lesbian because of their lack of interest in "appropriate" gender. Forgetting entirely that asexuality and aromanticism are options. Then when the question is raised they maybe a figure WAS aro and/or ace we are told that we are """"stealing"""" history. There is like one person in history we are allowed: Nikola Tesla. I love him very much, but he also fits the bill as a weirdo asexual. Because anyone who was the least bit acceptable to society must be allosexual. An example in reverse, Queen Elizabeth I, Britain's most beloved monarch, who never married, never was romantically or sexually involved with anyone (aside from being assaulted as a teenager), and was in her era very famously THE VIRGIN QUEEN who used her virginity as part of her persona to great affect. She is not considered asexual or aromantic and never has been. I have seen a biographer bend over backwards to get away from that accusation including using an incident where an elderly Elizabeth flashed a dignitary to make him uncomfortable as proof that she was allo. We can't have this awesome historical figure be one of those creeps right?!

•i am not even going into the history of how "sexlessness" was historically treated, especially in women. Let me just say that "spinsterism" was considered a danger to children and young women.

•NOTICE I WENT THIS WHOLE POST WITHOUT MENTIONING ASSHOLES WHO USE THE DISK HORSE AND BAR US FROM QUEER CIRCLES EVEN THOUGH SOME STUDIES FIND ASEXUALS HAVE LOWER SELF ESTEEM THAN ANY OTHER QUEER GROUP AND WOULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM A COMMUNITY!! THIS POST IS ENTIRELY EXAMPLES OF NON ONLINE PEOPLE BECAUSE SOMEHOW YOUR CONSTANT ABUSE OR REFUSAL TO RECOGNIZE ABUSE IS A-OKAY BECAUSE IT IS PART OF "THE DEBATE" BECAUSE SOMEHOW OUR EXISTENCE IS ACCEPTABLE DEBATE!

These are just some examples. People are free to add more but I am tired. If you want links I will dig them up.

Sincerely,

Fuck you.

I apologize for the "fuck you" but the exclusionist attitude is so disheartening. It is bad for not only aros and aces but also the queer community in general. We should be in this together! Fighting for one another side by side! We should be there for each other for hardships and for celebrations. I think it is vital that exclusionists really examine what and who they are actually fighting against.

[soacethetic]

Hi I just wanted some clarification but I’m a trans bi ace and I don’t see how cishet ace/aros should belong in the lgbt community? Like there isn’t any common ground and I’ve had cishet aces/aros that would interrupt me when telling me they are getting grossed out when I would gush about my same gender crushes or when I talk about trans issues. It made me feel more alienated than feeling apart of something. & the allo privilege seems really homophobic when comparing a lgbt with a cishet acearo

Hey Nonny! I’m gonna assume this is genuine and answer accordingly. But for anyone with similar discourse questions, looking through my blog or pm-ing me would probs be easier. Bc this will be long.

The argument for inclusion really doesn’t centre on cishets of any kind - it’s whether asexuality and aromanticism, on it’s own merits, should be included. The argument for that is that the lgbt+ community is for non-straight orientations (of which aspec IDs are) that are marginalised under cisheterosexism (of which aspec IDs are. We face high rates of sexual harrasment, familial rejection and mental illness that are comparable to bi people, and well above the Straights. We also face pathologisation, dehumanisation, corrective assault and bad media rep/erasure. Trans aces are more likely to face rejection by doctors than non-ace trans people. Life satisfaction is comparable to other lgbt people, and lower than the Straights. This is all not accounting for additional orientations — just aspec identities).

Obviously the exclus argument is that aspec identities aren’t discriminated against ~enough~ (which seems a cruel argument, given we are discriminated against. nevermind it also defines our community by suffering) or that the community is for sga and trans people only (this is something that started on tumblr and changes depending on who’s arguing - truscum say sga and dysphoric, for example. transphobes say just sga. it’s a gross simplification that ignores inclusive lgbt orgs, nonbinary orientations, queer history and non-US countries).

As for your other points, I’m seriously sorry that the cishet aces/aros you know are so shitty, but ultimately shitty individuals should never be taken as representative of an entire minority group. Keeping bigots away should be priority in any group, and it’s good to remember that cishet aces/aros would only be welcome in ace/aro specific groups or events welcome to even CishetTM Allies. They won’t be entering trans or gay specific spaces anymore than cis people would be entering trans specific spaces.

One last thing, ‘allo privilege’ is a term that means nothing. It’s not a cohesive oppression/privilege dynamic as it only applies to cishets, not lgbt people. ‘Allosexual/romantic’ should only be used as a synonym for ‘non-ace/aro,’ not as some kind of privilege indicator -in that (incorrect) context it would, as u said, be homophobic.

Obviously u don’t have to like or associate with cishet aces/aros. U don’t have to be a part of the ace/aro community if you’d rather not. But exclusionary rhetoric is at best, pointless, and at worst, damaging to not only the minority group being targeted, but other groups that could be ‘mistaken’ for the enemy (like with pan, nonbinary, nondysphoric, queer, sometimes even bi people). So in my opinion, keeping the option for aces/aros open is simply more beneficial than not.

[thatwriterwiththeblock]

As a Queer person planning on getting married in May who are getting courthouse married months in advance because we’re worried about losing our right to, I get it. As a polyamorous person who knows I probably will never get that right to marry in my lifetime, I get it.

But while there will never be real legal laws about virginity (hopefully, with this roe wade shit they’ve basically created a rapists-pick-the-mother-of-their-child environment) there are unspoken and highly spoken social laws.

Most asexual people I know have at some point been coerced into sex in relationships, convinced they wouldn’t ever be loved by anyone without sex. Most of them have met someone who suggested “fixing” them with their dick, especially if the ace person is fem presenting. Most of us have family who make uncomfortable, rude, or downright mean comments about our sex life, our lack thereof, our relationships and our future plans.

Aromantic people and asexual people alike are surrounded by a culture of what relationships should look like. Any movie with one sided pining paints someone out to be the villain. Friendships dissolve over feelings nobody can control. We’re generally branded selfish by a lot of people in our lives, especially by our family, and the culture of finances in America makes it virtually impossible to live on our own anyway.

The point of this entire post was that while suffering is part of Queer culture, it is not what makes us Queer. That is handing power to the abusers and saying, if you did not exist, neither would we. Punching down at aroace people for being included in the community does nothing when we could all be punching up. Aro/ace people have been a part of the Queer community since the AIDS crisis, and they will continue to exist in ridicule by close friends, families and partners, same as LGBTQ+.

The preferred outcome is that eventually civil rights prevails, and there is no sufferage or ridicule at all. Of course, that largely depends on rich religious zealots that profit off the divided masses ever fall out of power, and that’s a long shot. But while I’ll define my culture as being used to seeing gay clubs shot up by supremacists, I know that my place in the community started when I realized I was in love with a girl, not the first time I was introduced to homophobia.

The problems aroace people and allo gay people face are different, but both present nonetheless. If you have another reason for thinking they shouldn’t be included in LGBTQ+ circles, that’s your business, but “because they’re not oppressed” should not be one of them.

Not naming names here but some aphobes who say things like “I don’t believe aromantic/asexuals are part of the lgbtq community because they’re not oppressed enough” REALLY oughta consider the implication of basing being lgbtq on being abused by society

It’s not illegal to get gay married in America anymore. Do American gays no longer count as gay? Do people with supportive friends and family lose the right to be lgbt? Do you want a future where nobody is oppressed or do you secretly want to have to play sad little violins to be queer?

Shut up and stop playing trauma olympics. Cishet abusers don’t get to define lgbtq experiences, dumbass