#tangled discourse

[eggmuffinwaffles]

shana tovah 💖

[platinumpluto]

found a pl*nce shipper who’s got “pro-life” on their bio and is a cass/varian shipper- 🤢

Seems this woman skipped the fact Cass is canonically 23/24 and Varian is 14/15. 💀

[local-dragon-haunt]

hey! i’m an artist and i was wondering what about the httyd crossover art made it obviously AI. i’m trying to get better at recognizing AI versus real art and i totally would have just not clocked that.

Hey! This is TOTALLY okay to not have recognized it, because I DIDN'T AT FIRST, EITHER. Unfortunately there’s no real foolproof way to distinguish real art from the fake stuff. However I have noticed a general rule of thumb while browsing these last few months.

So this is the AI generated image I used as inspiration. I will not be tagging the account that posted it because I do not condone bullying of any type, but it’s important to mention that this was part of a set of images:

This is important because one of the BIGGEST things you can use to your advantage is context clues. This is the thing that clued me in: right off the bat we can see that there is NO consistency between these three images. The art style and outfits change with every generated image. They're vaguely related (I.E. characters that resemble the Big Four are on some sort of adventure?) and that's about it. Going to the account in question proved that all they posted were AI generated images. All of which have many red flags, but for clarity's sake we'll stick with the one that I used.

The first thing that caught my eye was this???? Amorphous Blob in the background. Which is obviously supposed to be knights or a dragon or something.

Again, context clues come into play here. Artists will draw everything With A Purpose. And if what they're drawing is fanart, you are going to recognize most of what you see in the image. Even if there are mistakes.

In the context of this image, it looks like the Four are supposed to be running from these people. The thing that drew my attention to it was the fact that I Didn't Recognize The Villains, and this is because there is nothing to recognize. These shapes aren't Drago, or Grimmel, or Pitch, or any other villain we usually associate with ROTBTD. They're just Amorphous Blobs that are vaguely villain shaped.

Which brings me to my second point:

Do you see the way they're standing? There is no purpose to this. It throws the entire image off. Your eye is drawn to the Amorphous Villain Blobs in the background, and these characters are not reacting to them one bit.

Now I'm not saying that all images have to have a story behind them, but if this were created by a person, it clearly would have had one. Our group here is not telling a story, they are posing.

This is because the AI does not see the image as a whole, but as two separate components: the setting, and the description of the characters that the prompter dictates. I.E. "Merida from Brave, Jack Frost from ROTG, Rapunzel from Tangled, and Hiccup from HTTYD standing next to each other"

Now obviously the most pressing part of this prompt are the characters themselves. So the AI prioritizes that and tries to spit out something that WE recognize as "Merida from Brave, Jack Frost from ROTG, Rapunzel from Tangled, and Hiccup from HTTYD standing next to each other".

This, more times than not, is going to end up with this stagnant posing. Because AI cannot create, it can only emulate. And even then, it still can't do it right. Case in point:

This is not Hiccup. The AI totally thinks this is Eugene Fitzherbert. Look at the pose. The facial structure. The goatee. The smirk. The outfits. He's always next to Raps. Why does he have a quiver? Where's Toothless? His braids? His scar??

HE HAS BOTH OF HIS LEGS.

The AI. Cannot even get the most important part of it's prompt correct.

And that's just the beginning. Here:

More amorphous shapes.

So these are obviously supposed to be utility belts, but I mean. Look at them. The perspective is all off. There are useless straps. I don't even know what that cluster behind Jack's left arm is supposed to be.

This is a prime example of AI emulating without understanding structure.

You can see this particularly in Jack, between his hands, the "tassels" of his tunic, and the odd wrinkles of his boots. There's just not any structure here whatsoever.

Lastly, AI CANNOT CREATE PATTERNS.

Here are the side-by-sides of the shit I had to deal with when redesigning their outfits. Please someone acknowledge this. This killed me inside. THIS is most recognizable to me, and usually what I look for first if I'm wary about an art piece. These clusterfuck bunches of color. I hate them. I hate them so. much.

Anyways here's some other miscellaneous things I've noticed:

Danny Phantom Eyes

???? Thumb? (and random sword sheath)

Collarbone Necklace (corset from hell)

No Staff :( No Bow :(

What is that.

So yeah. Truly the best thing to do is to just. study it. A lot of times you aren't gonna notice anything just looking at the big picture, you need to zoom in and focus on the little details. Obviously I'm not like an expert in AI or anything, but I do have a degree in animation practices and I'm. You know. A human being. So.

In conclusion:

(Y'all should totally reblog my redesign of this btw)

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i said this in the tags of my previous post but people who say that mirabel deserved to get a gift are probably the same people who say that eugene shouldn't have cut rapunzel's hair that short.

the point of both these movies is that these people should be valued for who they are, not for what they can do.

rapunzel was kidnapped because of her hair, and mother gothel was using her for her hair, for what she can provide. eugene was the first person to treat her as a person and see her worth, apart from her hair and magical powers. (also he was literally DYING you fucking doofuses, did you expect him to get a pair of stylist's scissors and give her a professional blowout? use your braincells for god's sake)

similarly, we see how in encanto, everyone's worth was placed on their gift, and mirabel was treated as worthless simply because she didn't have a gift. the solution here is to not give her a gift so that she'll be valued, it's that she deserves to be treated with love and respect regardless. and that's what happens in the end. it could be an allegory for many things — disability, neurodivergence, or simply people who don't have amazing skills or talents.

either way, it baffles me that people can lack media literacy this much. both these movies pretty much spelled out their messages for us, and y'all still missed it.

[n8ptune]

I've been watching the last season of Doctor Who with friends recently ( loving it ) and somehow we ended up comparing the Rani to Penelope Pointer-

So anyway, I hope Penelope Pointer is cast as the Rani in the Detective Grimoire universe lol

"Never seen a mystid before ?"

[antiquepearlss]

I’m too tired to post an essay but my girl was just a victim of bad writing and a lack of critical thinking from the audience okay I love her.

[yourwrong]

“They never even meet in canon” *takes a drag from a cigarette* back in my day we shipped ppl who weren’t even in the same franchise

That was the fun. More than half the time they didn’t have a chance to even be considered to be canon. We shipped things that we didn’t even want to be canon. It fun, silly goofy. Make shipping silly goofy again!

[stanlunter]

How many heart attacks you think Lunter antis will have if they ever join Aracne fandom?

I mean, if they call Lunter incest just bc Luz said Hunter was a family, completely ignoring the whole context, what are they gonna think about Jayvik being the second most popular ship (beating even canon Jaymel) while Jayce has quite literally said he sees Viktor as a brother? Same with them joining Tangled the series fandom btw

Yk, I personally wouldn't give a shit about it, I'm completely fine with these ships, but the way Lunter gets so much hate over nothing, while the ships that according to the "fandom standards" suppose to be even worse, get so much appreciation? These double standards aren't just ridiculous, they're insane

And I don't know if there are many people who are in both Arcane & Toh fandoms, but I have seen Lunter haters who ship Cassunzel and this hypocrisy actually makes me sick, what do you guys think about it tho?

[roseworth]

i hate everything about tangled live action but the absolute worst part is that it is going to revive all the worst discourse for months. who’s ready for the next round of “why did gothel tell rapunzel her real birthday” and “why did eugene cut her hair so short” and “she’s 18 and he’s 26 that’s problematic” all happening at once

[urfavisaminor]

Varian from Tangled the serie is a traumatized minor

Varian from the tangled series is a minor! (14)

[neokonewman]

I hate to jump in a discourse I have no investment in (never was into the Varian spin-off part of the Tangled fandom), but using ANOTHER person’s very personal art against them in order to paint them or their fans in a bad light is… objectively a scummy thing to do.

Like, you are literally taking their DnD character art that had no context before the Varian spin-off was even introduced as a CONCEPT, and later released to the fandom as a POTENTIAL AU and not only posting as if it’s an earth shattering revelation that it in fact exist, but actively sending it to people.

Like, did you make a whole new account JUST to bypass the people who blocked you to avoid this? Because honestly, there are better hobbies out there than to make a ship look problematic for clout or an “I told you so” moment.

I'm asking you calm and civil.

Look at this drawing:

And now look at this:

Now tell me which Hugo is on this drawings, the first or the second?

I've looked and you're still full of shit.

Retooling a character from a DND game to fit a completely different story is not the same as shipping an age gap ship.

And reposting a bunch of random images without context or permission doesn't prove jack.

You're not 'civil' nor 'calm'. You're a troll looking to start crap, and I'm not falling for it. Fuck off.

[gocelot]

Something about how Cassandra’s lady in waiting dress represents her being forced to suppress her genuine self and fit into preconceived ideas of femininity as well as class structure and how we’re shown how much more comfortable she is in her more masculine presenting clothing because she’s no longer defined as subservient to royalty (especially rapunzel) or to her role as a woman

And then this contrasted with certain corners of the fandom where she’s presented in that same dress in heterosexual bliss

[7fff00]

at first when i was remaking i thought 'now i can voice all the controversial opinions i felt obliged to keep mum about before!' (to be clear, my controversial opinions are things like 'it's possible to oppose monarchy in real life AND still enjoy a fictional king from time to time.' 'i don't entirely reject the idea of so-called cultural christianity, but i feel strongly that the label should be reserved for patterns of behavior, rhetoric, etc, and not applied to individual people.' idk i don't keep a running list but you get the idea probably.)

but un/fortunately i've been so selective in my refollowing (which to be clear is still very much a work in progress) that i'm not actually encountering any of the discourse to which i'd previously built up all these objections! which is very restful, but doesn't exactly stimulate me to articulate my positions…

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Honestly if you ever watched Tangled the Series than I want you to know that there’s another Catra and Adora like relationship as well with Rapunzel and Cassandra but unlike the Spop, they had the Villainous half LEAVE after their last minute redemption.

i haven't watched tangled the series but i do know most of the story and i've also seen people ship yet another sibling situation with cassandra and rapunzel. from what i heard, cassandra's arc wasn't very good either and even her villain arc didn't make much sense. but yeah, at least they didn't make her rapunzel's girlfriend at the end. bare minimum, but we stan.

[jewishicequeen]

How do you imagine Varian as an adult?

Once again, I have drawn it several times, you're welcome to see for yourself cause I'm not about to dig for it, and I do not have any desire to engage in this discourse.

It's been 4 years since the series ended. Why are you guys still fighting over this. Ugh.

[aliciasinferno]

Is there any way I can proof that I'm not the person harassing people anonymously?

I'm not a troll and I would never threaten somebody over fictional characters or call them slurs

That's not me