#the redemption discourse was just as bad with him

[pan-catra]

one thing that this spop rewatch is really opening my eyes on is how hypocritical the Catra redemption discourse was back when the show was still airing. i could make a compilation of all the times Scorpia tries to murder someone in the Rebellion or Entrapta disregards basic morals to uphold her partnership with the Horde and yet they get passes in regards to their redemption while people complain about Catra not “deserving it”. and like, it’s literally only because Scorpia and Entrapta are nicer than Catra. if Catra wasn’t a huge bitch no one would be saying her redemption was rushed or undeserved. people care far more about personality than they do about actions.

[pechuyu]

Im so late to ursa discourse but trying to read the comics and the first few pages of dialogue are so weird

Like i get that azula was the "troubled kid" and ursa wasn't equipped to help or do much but at the end of the day one of azula's core issues is that her mom thinks shes a monster and doesnt love her so it is kinda on her to ensure her kid feels like shes loved by her mom.

Plus talking about "losing" her like shes dead. Girl ur kid was a 14 year old child soldier who had a psychotic break and fucked off into the woods, if ur so upset about losing her maybe you should go out and find her??

Like imagine Azula seeing this. Her mother worrying abt her "new replacement daughter" ending up like her and talking abt her like she's too far gone.

(also zuko knowing azula's struggling, heard her talk abt her mommy issues, and doesnt even try to defend just reassures their mom the new kid won't be like "the bad one" )

(if this all apart of plan i take it back but its not looking good so far lol)

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

no by all means keep judging cartoon villains solely by if they get redeemed in the end. i know some of us like to talk about other stuff like characterization or entertainment value or nuance as something that makes a good villain. but i think the only thing that actually matters is if the villain ends up on good terms with the protagonist at the end. all the Good TM cartoons with Good TM creators make the villains die a Horrible Death for being Abusers or whatever. and all the Bad TM cartoons with Bad TM creators Forgive Fascists by not making them get publicly executed by the 14 year old protagonist in front of the 8 year old target demographic.

i mean im so glad that more cartoons nowadays are subverting the psyop to support fascists that a few queer artists and queer shows definitely invented in 2017. there are so many popular cartoons doing that. it's almost like there are more properties killing their villains now and in the past than there ever were of properties that didn't do this. and it's almost like whether the villain gets redeemed at the end is more about the context of the story and its themes leading up to a narratively sound decision.

but you know. a few queer shows made by trans ppl were popular and they didn't kill their fascists and even had the gall to make them nuanced while also looking into the harm they did. guess it's trendy to forgive your abusers now because like two cartoons said so. out of like 40 other similarly high profile works that just straight up hit their villains with a bus or smth. by all means. keep heaping praise onto that one show about how they "let their villain just be evil" instead of talking about anything more interesting. that's so subversive, everyone's doing it!

[unknown7s]

Can I just say that I really fucking HATE how the majority of the Arcane fandom praising Season 2 is deeply in the mindset of Piltover in reality? Like, it's not even funny, and I don't know where to begin.

I'll just start with Silco because he's this huge metaphorical character who is clearly written as the embodiment of a long list of sociopolitical agendas in the real world. And before I start, pardon my English, since it's not my first language.

I know y'all in the Anglo-American sphere tend to focus more on classism, inequality and police brutality theme. But the way I see it, THAT and every single dialogue plus the specific word choice of Silco & Sevika literally SCREAMS of postcolonial discourse (I guess F. Fanon is most well-known to y'all) and even some part of M. Foucault's philosophy, etc. I'm writing "etc." because the list will go on forever if I describe all these creepy historical parallels between the depiction of Zaun's internal conflict and what real countries that have been (or still are) colonies went through, and what real colonizer propaganda looked like during that time—like how those characters who fight for the nation's independence are the big bad villain and psychotic monsters who need "redemption arc" therapy, while those who cooperate with the oppressors are the good-hearted familial heroes of this story.

So upon reflection, if this fandom were to be a collective intelligence, we should have asked ourselves, "Is this show truly not problematic for portraying such a character as villainous?" and thus, "Is this show thematically implying far-right propaganda?" even before Season 2 presented us with this insane plot that glamorized the militaristic fascist aristocrat proclaiming martial law as a 'romantic revenge arc'.

But what did the majority of the fandom do since 2022? They were so busy shitting on this dead villain, claiming he has done so much wrong that he doesn't even deserve to be praised as a character. So instead of trying to understand where this character's point of view is coming from, they blindly hate him to the point where they are now fabricating a list of crimes that he didn't even commit, editing false information on the fandom wiki profile.

What's more frustrating to me is that I thought the problem was media illiteracy all along, but oh no, I was being way more optimistic than the reality. Now that I’ve read all these interviews from the showrunner and main writer—Linke and Overton—I get the sense of why Season 2 turned out like that. The more they babble on about this show, the clearer it becomes that they don't even acknowledge how messed up their political views are, which are so far-right. Taking the seemingly-centrist line doesn't make you fair, you're just passively siding with the oppressors. And lesbian sex scene doesn't make this show "progressive", in fact, hiding oppressor fantasy behind a rainbow flag makes it even more treacherous.

So yeah, I think critical voices should be much louder than this, but watching the majority of this fandom neglacting problems only to praise the show? I think my hope for humanity kind of get lost more and more as time passes, lol.

[firelxdykatara]

what bugs me about azula redemption discourse is the fact that people genuinely think azula lied that zuko killed the avatar to show she cares for him. if she cared about him, she wouldve had the courtesy to warn him instead of blindsinding him during the meeting. That just added to his anxiety and while her fears of what ozai would do if her if she disappointed him are validated by ozai's actions, that gives her no right at all to knowingly put her own brother in the position. she literally said, "you can't treat me like zuko!" in the finale, which says a lot about how aware she was of how zuko was treated, and the fact that she recognized that that's not how she would like to be treated.

Oh yeah, this is a pretty wide-spread problem in the atla fandom in general but I notice a lot of it in specific azula-stanning (and usually zuko-hating) corners, where it's like 'Azula never even really did anything bad and how dare people call her one of Zuko's abusers for sibling rivalry stuff' as if gleefully crowing to your brother that your father is going to kill him or watching with a smirk of satisfaction as your father brutalizes him is all just 'normal sibling rivalry stuff'. Nevermind what came later, like actually trying to kill him.

So we end up with this kind of discourse that relies on making up a bunch of stuff that honestly doesn't make sense nor fit in with what we do know of these characters and the situation, but because they can do enough mental gymnastics to make her out to be The Real Victim Here then anyone who doesn't agree just hates abuse victims or whatever.

The fact is, at its most charitable interpretation, Azula was bare minimum hedging her bets. Because this scene:

comes before Zuko's meeting with Ozai, where we hear this:

And then, as if that weren't enough, we have Azula herself admitting it:

I feel like a lot of Azula stans who insist she was just trying to help Zuko, that she cared for him and was just trying to help him return home with honor, missed this part of the conversation, or just conveniently forget about it when it comes to defending their fave. But while Azula initially claims she did it to help Zuko out of the goodness of her heart, she comes right out herself and says she doubts Zuko's conviction about the Avatar's death, and she doesn't want any blowback to fall on her if and when the Avatar eventually resurfaces.

She was, at bare minimum, covering her own ass, with little regard for how it would ultimately affect her brother (for whom she has little care or concern, according to how we see their relationship playing out). Lines like you can't treat me like Zuko help to highlight this, because while, yes, they are both victims of the same abusive parent, Azula also became an active agent in Zuko's abuse, and the realization that to their abuser they are both just as disposable even after everything she did for him within that framework is a huge part of what led to her complete psychological breakdown in the finale.

[burningcheese-merchant]

okay enough with the ship discourse! let's lighten the mood with some season 10 discussions! I'm really really excited to see the latter half of the story, and I'm super curious how this will going into next months update too! chocolate bark, and whatever second cookie that'll come in july, I cannot wait to see how things play out, the dragons have some of the most interesting lore in all of CR history (second only to the Novas hehehe my awesome space super sentai family 😄)

Absolutely, my friend! No more dumb discourse, only good and silly vibes

I actually meant to make a separate post talking about my thoughts on Season 10 of Ovenbreak, but I was always too busy to do so. Your ask gives me an excuse lol

I have LOVED this update so far. It's so great. The story is so great. Longan Dragon being 1000000000000 kilometers long and looking like an eldritch horror? Basically being Jörmungandr from Norse myth? Peak. Longan Dragon trapping everyone in some kind of mind prison and forcing them to endure constant pyschological assault? Peak. More dragon family lore? Peak. Chocolate Bark? Peak, I love him, he's so handsome and perfect, if only he was in Kingdom too

I think what I've enjoyed most so far is:

Dark Choco and Chocolate Bark backstory. I really enjoy their little mentor/student bond. CB is such a fun dude. He's tough but he's lighthearted and has a sense of humor. The way he speaks to DC is so charming, he's like a older brother or uncle almost

I think Dark Choco really needed someone like this in his life, you know? It's a big shame he left, even if it was for an important mission. It makes me wonder how differently things would've turned out if he'd stayed.

Also...

"My father" this, "my father" that. #SayHisName, Devsis lol

It's cool to get official confirmation that the Dark Cacao Kingdom exists (existed?) in Ovenbreak as well. And by extension, Dark Cacao himself exists (existed?) there too. And... he's not the most affectionate dad still lol. It's ok, he's still my favorite Ancient and Kingdom character. I am begging and pleading Devsis for more lore on this, hell give us a whole update focusing on Dark Choco PLEASE, he's been so neglected in OB and it's been a huge shame because he gets more attention in Kingdom. I love Dark Choco, I love how tragic he is, I love his redemption arc. (It's admittedly... less compelling here than it is in CRK, but that can be fixed with a Dark Choco-focused update imo)

I just really, really adore seeing the dragons interact with each other. I love their dynamic SO much, they're my favorite group in this whole series. I'm nutso about them individually and as a family/clan. It's been awesome learning more about Lychee and Longan especially; I love Lychee's unwilling attachment to Rambutan and her apparent longing for proper attention from/bonding with Longan, I love the way the Pitaya-Ananas-Lotus trio bicker and banter, THE LONGAN CHARACTER STUDY‼️‼️‼️ Pitaya may be my favorite dragon but Longan is the most complex and interesting one by far. The warped affection he feels for his family. The need to protect and govern them. The way he perceives time and the world at large. His sociopathic desire for absolute control and revenge for perceived injustices. The way he tries to manipulate the others into agreeing with him and going along with his plans (those scenes in the Dark Realm are fucking crazy. The way he warps and weaponizes their emotions and memories is actual textbook abuser/cult brainwashing shit)

What the actual fuck dude. Ok, Charles Manson lol. And I thought Shadow Milk was bad. (No lie I find Longan Dragon 10x more intimidating than Shadow Milk. He exudes an aura that SM simply does not. THIS is power. THIS is boundless knowledge sharpened into a blade and held against your throat. Shadow Milk may be a god but Longan Dragon is above even godhood. I'm way more scared of Longan than any of the Beasts)

Biggest scene for me though?

WHAT??? LAST SURVIVOR OF THE FLOWER DRAGONS??? WHAT???????????

In hindsight... yeah it was kind of obvious something was up with Lotus Dragon lol. The one flower in a group of fruits. Pretty on the nose. But it's still crazy to think about, you know? What happened to the other Flower Dragons? Why is Lotus the only one left? How did the other Fruit Dragons feel about taking her in? How did SHE feel about that, essentially being adopted by a rival clan? What if they had something to do with the Flower Dragons' demise? They better address this in the next half of the story istg. I will lose it. I WILL write a sternly worded email to Devsisters. I WILL cry

What this says about Longan's character is also quite interesting. It appears that his respect and affection for dragons actually does extend beyond his own immediate family. Enough to take in an orphan. This capacity for compassion and generosity is so unlike how Longan normally behaves. It makes for a really fascinating pivot from his usual modus operandi and adds a lot of depth to his thinking and character

(honestly, this makes me want and hope for Longan Dragon's surrender even more. I've always thought that Longan willingly standing down and ceding victory to the other dragons would be more impactful than him simply being beaten the normal way, aka through the Power of Friendship and Punching Stuff. I want Longan's love for his family to win in the end. I want him to come to realize that he really would have no choice but to eradicate his family in order to achieve his goals, and then forfeit because he could never bring himself to do it. They're the reason why he's doing any of this in the first place. I don't want him to change his mind about mortals or anything, he can stay a genocidal race supremacist lol. I just think it would be more interesting if he willingly stopped what he was doing just because he can't let go of his kin. Perhaps he truly is only clinging to an idyllic past long dead. It would hurt. Hurt his pride, his ego. But their preservation would require the destruction of his clan and he cannot stand for that. THEY are his mission. THEY are his dream. Yes, Longan will forever mourn this loss as he shall forever mourn the past itself. But at least he'll still have those four afterwards. Even if they hate him.)

The dragons make me so ill. I need to pelt them with rocks. Gonna call the Stone Dragons Pitaya was beefing with in prehistoric times and ask them for a favor

[ominous-horse-noises]

im ab to be annoying ab dimension20 fhjy but im genuinely loving the character arcs for the bad kids this season?

kristen going from self-annihilatingly stupid to trying to build a genuine bridge with the man who not only wielded the religion that traumatised her (bobby dawn), but also was trying to ruin her life, just bc she thought a grieving father ought to be comforted in some way? her genuine distress at being unable to revivify buddy even though the two had only had negative interactions, or her biting her tongue in front of her parents so she could better look after her little siblings? grappling with the fact that she still, on some level, expected practising religion to be easy and convenient for her as a holdover from an entire childhood spent being a Chosen One, and finally putting her nose to the grindstone and committing to working her ass off for a deity that couldn't even benefit her for a hot minute? making an effort to be cordial with tracker's new gf and letting go of that codependency? the kristen applebees from ep20 would NOT do all the same stupid shit as ep1 and i love that.

fabian being humbled by the narrative again and again has been an absolute treat for his character. the whole ivy/mazey situation was great: freshman/sophomore year fabian would've gone for ivy no sweat, i mean her character seemed pretty similar to pre-redemption aelwyn and he had a huge crush on her then. but this time, when he realised he'd hurt a genuinely great person, and intentionally swallowed his pride to make it up to mazey, even though it required him being 'uncool' with the whole twister thing. his general arc of learning that earnestness and humility doesn't make him less of a man felt like a natural extension of fabian defining his own version of masculinity- sure, a 'maximum legend', but also someone deeply involved in the arts, and someone who is less afraid of saying sorry and being vulnerable in front of someone he likes

fig. fig fig fig. what a woman. its been absolutely fascinating watching build her sense of identity over these three seasons. at her core, fig is a character that loves so deeply. in freshman, she was terrified of the depth of her own devotion, so she tried to distance herself emotionally from everyone. in sophomore, she built herself around that love for other people. in junior year, fig's arc has been learning she can do both: that she's defined by her love for others, but not solely by it. ik emily wanted to retire the character before this season but i think fig's paladin arc was the best capstone to her journey possible.

gorgug's arc has been about establishing clear boundaries for himself and i love it. im aware there's been some Discourse ab the mango soda scene but to me that was pretty easily chalked up to teenage insecurity. a big part of gorgug's arc was trying to believe in himself when everyone around him told him he was too dumb to follow his passion- imagine struggling in an area that you have no natural aptitude for, and someone comes along and also trounces you in the one area you thought you were the best in. i'd be petty and reactive too (gorgug follows up calling her a freak with the fact that she beat the shit out of him, so its clearly him just still smarting from a bruised ego and not actual malice). in general, i've really like gorgug learning to put his foot down and say enough is enough without completely losing his gentleness.

adaine hasnt had an obvious arc, but considering she addressed most of her baggage in the first two seasons, i'm not surprised. i would've liked to see the other bad kids address her 'teenage adult' behaviour, but her self-awareness about it and relying on fabian to pull in clutch for the oracool stuff still felt like she'd learned to rely on her friends at least + her reaching out to aelwyn and the two of them healing from their parents together has been rewarding it its own right.

riz is perfect and has learned nothing. his neuroticism is part of his natural swag

[sokkastyles]

I cant help but notice that quiet a lot of people who dont like Zuko and/or Uncle Iroh happen to be Azula stans. Now I am the last person to put everyone in a Box because that sucks so I want to make clear that I am not putting every Person who like her with these Kind of people.

But it gives me an icky feeling when they somehow make Azula the victim and Zuko the abuser when it was very clearly the other way around (never read the Comic but in my humble opinion there is nothing Zuko could do or say that would even be close to the abuse he suffered from Azula).

Also somehow giving Iroh crap when All he does during the show is protecting Zuko from Azula and only calling her crazy and she needs to go down after she almost kills him

Kinda a rant but I just blocked one of these Zuko hating Azula loving Accounts because due to the Zuko Tag they repeat to show up on my feed and it was nagging at me.

I would love to hear your thoughts on that matter. (Sorry if you already talked about it)

I don't like putting people in boxes either, but the tumblr fandom is infested with Azula stans, and what I've found is that if you scratch almost anyone with a bad take, they will turn out to be an Azula stan. Funnily enough, when people say the fandom is toxic, they don't mention this. But it isn't a surprise that people who are fandom bullies with victim complexes overidentify with a character like Azula and that they dominate the conversation. They even have been known to use sock puppet blogs to make themselves seem like their numbers are larger than they are and that many people agree with their opinions. It's just a shame because she's such a great character, but the discourse around her has been shaped by these people.

When Azula stans say that Zuko or Iroh are really the abuser, they're engaging in classic DARVO behavior: deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. It's a common abuser tactic to make the victim think that they are actually the abuser or that they have some kind of mutual abuse dynamic. I've read The Search, where most of those accusations against Zuko come from, and as badly written as that comic is, it pretty accurately depicts this kind of abusive relationship. Azula accuses Zuko of mistreating her because she no longer has complete power over him like she did before. Ozai also does the same thing to Zuko in The Promise. And the kicker is that even from her diminished position, Azula still has psychological power over Zuko, which is how she's able to convince Zuko that he's mistreating her in the first place. Zuko believes Azula because he's been subjected to this crap his whole life and is terrified of being like his abusers. Essentially, the reason he falls for Azula's attempts to convince him that he is like her is because he is not like her. Azula is able to convince Zuko to let her go free and trusts her under the guise of giving her "dignity" when she's actually been lying to him and manipulating him the whole time, along with insulting and degrading him and putting him and his friends in danger.

Iroh's great sin is that he won't let Azula harm Zuko, yes, but also, like Zuko, the reason he is hated by these people is because he got redemption and Azula didn't. Sometimes he is more hated than Zuko because he's an adult and didn't change until well into adulthood, whereas we should give Azula leniency for being a kid. What these people fail to realize is that all the leniency in the world will not make Azula change, and she has never expressed any indication towards redemption.

Whenever people are like "but Iroh did bad thing," I just don't know what the argument is here. Is it that nobody should ever change for the better?

Nope, the real problem is that Zuko and Iroh changing for the better highlights how Azula didn't. That Zuko did what Azula couldn't gives the lie to the "she's just a kid" excuse, and that Iroh did what Azula couldn't gives the lie to the idea that her age means she's more likely to change her ways and that we should judge her on that.

It is true that it's harder to change the older you get, but that only highlights that redemption has to be chosen, it can't be forced. Anyone can change no matter who they are or what they've done, but Azula simply hasn't and doesn't think she needs to.

It's also very easy to imagine a redemption for her and use that idealized fantasy to judge the characters who actually got redemption in canon. But this is just more of engaging in abuser-logic fantasies.

It's not shown a lot, but there is evidence in atla that Ozai also thought he was a victim, and used that to defend his own abusiveness, even sometimes directly to the son he burned. He had to teach Zuko respect, didn't he? His own wife committed treason, didn't she? Nevermind that Ozai manipulated both of these scenarios so that they would come out in his favor. He certainly thinks of himself as the victim and that's the reason he won't change. Iroh knows this, too ("I've never known my brother to regret anything"), which is the other reason Azula stans hate him. He sees right through Ozai and he sees through Azula when she lies and manipulates, too.

[matt0044]

I like Evermorrow but… I feel like it’s cheating at times with their outright canon changes. :/

I think they're more uncomfortable with Adam being abusive because, well, of headcanons of him being "fixable" or at least a good man gone bad without being so... petulant as it were.

I've often seen a take that says that many who might advocate for a redemption arc for a bad character is because of this new age guilt of feeling bad for liking bad characters. Thus if they're "good," their past transgressions can be seen as a rocky road to a better place in retrospect.

I don't think that's fully true but it certain holds water when you look at things like Adam and Ironwood. Before the Iron stans rallied together come the end of Volume 7, I saw some assume that even with his ill treatment of Mantle, he would be brought around to see the light.

I feel like this is why the bad take of "Ruby lied so he got mad" is so prevelant. They think if he knew of Salem not being able to die, it'd help him ease off on Mantle's state of martial law. Not true but it's something to grasp at.

Adding to it, I feel like some Evermorrow is trying to be… a bit Centrist in the fandom. The creators don’t want to make any waves and actively dissuade viewers from declaring “This is what RWBY is meant to be.” But they don’t feel comfortable with the idea of Adam being an abusive lover of Blake or want to make the Bees a thing seemingly to appease those like Celtic Phoenix working for her.

It’s not something I blame them for since I wouldn’t wish this sort of discourse on anybody. Buuuuuuuuuut one should see it for themselves and parse out who’s being more egrigious in their behavior.

Like I was hoping for an alternate timeline where elements are the same as in canon but a different route like Cinder being found out leads to a butterfly effect of Salem pivoting her plans. Who were Cinder, Mercury and Emerald if they weren't with Salem?

I really don't wanna put the creators on blast or cause a harrassment campaign by accident. I just feel like given constructive criticism. I like their arc with Ilia so far and connecting it with Weiss.

[jedi-valjean]

Common AO3 Tags in the Death Note Universe RPF Community

Kira/L— not only the top tag for Kira Case RPF but for RPF period

Task Force Member!Kira/L— little if any resemblance to Lawlight; Kira is a cop because it doesn't occur to anyone that a student would be on the task force (except in the occasional Wattpad reader-insert fic)

Kira/Second Kira— "hiiii this was amazing also i love your username I'm a Misa-Misa fan too!!!!!!!!!"

L is Kira— this is a popular conspiracy theory outside of AO3 so of course there's fics about it

Original Kira Task Force Member/Kira!L— second most popular L ship tag)

Koreyoshi Kitamura/L— the list of task force members isn't exactly public knowledge so this is pretty much your only option if you don't want to create an OC ship

Misa Amane/Kira— "lmao why does this read like self-insert fic"

Kira Possession— Kira passes from person to person, usually as some kind of ghost and frequently via sex

Kira Infection— Similar to Kira Possession, but instead of a new person becoming the one and only Kira, the number of Kiras multiplies with contact

Kira Isn't Real— also a popular conspiracy theory IRL, frequently paired with L Isn't Real

L Isn't Real— also a popular conspiracy theory IRL, not as frequently paired with Kira Isn't Real

Fake L/Kira— L isn't real but Kira doesn't know that

L/Mistaken Identity Kira— frequently paired with Interrogation— some poor random citizen (usually the reader) has been misidentified as Kira

L/Copycat Kira— see above, but the person framed themselves on purpose to get L's attention

misa is the second kira— "lmao there need to be more fics with this premise so it can become a canonical tag"

Kira Redemption— this one makes Kira supporters angry

No Kira Redemption— half the taggers are Kira supporters using it as a dead dove tag, half the taggers are people who like Kira redemption but are writing angstfic where it doesn't happen

Kira Notebook— Kira kills by writing names in a book; becomes an unexpectedly popular trope after a Misa Amane RPF writer uses it in multiple fics; trope goes by many names but Kira Notebook is the canonical tag

Alternate Kira Killing Method— just a fanfic trope but if it ever becomes public knowledge that Kira can kill by means other than a heart attack people are going to lose their minds

Kira Is A Shinigami— oldest Kira killing method trope; popular with monsterfuckers

Kira/Kira's Shinigami— becomes a thing after the Second Kira's message mentions "our shinigami"

Kira's Shinigami/Second Kira's Shinigami— what do you expect to happen after the two Kiras "show each other their shinigami?"

POV Kira's Shinigami— post in this tag to receive a comment from unregistered user appleaddict4444 consisting entirely of laugh emoji

Misa Amane/Hideki Ryuga— post in this tag if you want to get canceled because "SHE HAS A BOYFRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!" ("don't you literally ship misa x kira????????")

Misa Amane/Misa Amane's Boyfriend— "ummm actually his eyes are honey brown not chestnut and he's actually two years younger than her" ("we literally don't know anything about him not everybody has to adhere to your headcanons")

Misa Amane/Original Female Character— if you thought the Gaylor discourse was bad... (also that one popular Misa x Kira writer has them all publicly bookmarked with the description "ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww")

L is a Misa Amane Fan— some dude roleplaying as L agrees with this headcanon apparently

Misa Amane's Boyfriend Is Kira— secret identity angst trope where Misa's boyfriend is secretly Kira but JUST CAN'T TELL HER IT'S NOT SAFE WHAT IF SHE HATES ME ETC ETC

Kira Harem— self-explanatory (this one will also get you hate comments from that one Misa x Kira shipper)

Kira Diary— subcategory of POV Kira in epistolary format

Kira/Second Kira!L— I honestly don't know what to say about this one

Multiple Ls— I mean there's two Kiras so why not

Leftist Kira— why does Kira kill people who are already in prison and not like. Billionaires

Redpilled Kira— Kira should kill SJWs and [insert slur here]

Nazi Kira— Kira is terrible but what if he was worse

Kira Is A Politician— Kira is the prime minister, the president of the United States, the head of the CIA

Kira's Identity Discovered— umbrella tag for several fic premises

Kira's Identity Discovered By L— task force wins, extremely basic premise

Kira's Identity Discovered By Civilian— the character usually dies at the end

Kira's Identity Discovered By Internet— most popular subtrope by far

Alternate Universe— Kira— what if Kira was in my favorite TV show/novel series/historical time period

Alternate Universe— No Kira— can things just go back to normal. Please

[maxdibert]

I think the difference between marauders and harry potter fandom as a whole is just the difference in demographics. most of the marauders fandom is teens and young adults, queer, and kinda distanced from the larger fandom in a way. like, you mention that the current marauders fandom doesn’t like canon and sticks to fanfic and “delusion” and well. yeah. for a lot, that’s the point. if that’s not your cup of tea, that’s great! fandom is for everyone, and there’s definitely a mix of everything in a fandom so large as the hp fandom. it’s not really a bad thing that this specific subsection of the fandom is more detached from canon though.

i definitely agree there are some issues with marauders era characterizations, like severus being completely demonized for no apparent reason (i’ve never been a severus fan, but that’s bc i didn’t vibe with his character as an adult. young sev was just a kid) and a big thing with the fandom is the rise of jegulus and people changing the DE characterizations. but the entire fandom isn’t a cesspool full of dull characters and atrocious headcannons, it’s just very different from the canon. and that’s something a lot of people don’t like, which is valid, but there are those who do like jegulus and slytherin “skittles” content, which is valid too

Honestly, this idea that JKR was always obviously a misogynist because she loved Snape and made him a romantic hero is such a chronologically confused take that I can’t help but assume it comes from someone who was either a child or not even born yet when the books were at their peak because LOL. Like… no. In the 2000s, absolutely nobody in mainstream discourse was calling JKR a misogynist. In fact, she was widely held up as a feminist icon. Hermione was seen as a symbol of girl power, and people genuinely cited her as a positive role model. Feminist discourse wasn’t nearly as accessible or viral back then, it was mostly confined to academic or niche spaces. There was no generalized critical lens on popular media like there is now. So let’s not rewrite history pretending people were dissecting internalized misogyny in Harry Potter on fórums and Fanfiction.net in 2005. They weren’t.

Btw saying JKR loved Snape and wanted him to be a “romantic hero” is… bizarre to me. If anything, I’d argue the opposite: I don’t think she liked him much at all. Yes, she wrote him as a complex and pivotal character, but she never treated him with real compassion. Severus is never given the benefit of the doubt in the narrative. He’s constantly described through Harry’s lens in deeply unflattering terms, physically and emotionally. The way his appearance is picked apart, the language used to present him as greasy, sour, bitter… it’s intentionally dehumanizing. And it’s relentless. She frames him almost exclusively through his worst traits until after he dies. That’s not what it looks like when a writer has a soft spot for a character.

Compare that to how James, Sirius, Lupin—even Dumbledore—are treated. All of them are given redemption arcs without having to earn them in the same brutal way Snape does. His suffering is constantly diminished or brushed off, even outright mocked by the same characters the narrative wants us to admire. His abusers are romanticized. Their worst actions are glossed over with nostalgia and cheeky boyhood charm. Meanwhile, Severus is dragged through the mud, left to rot, and only given his flowers in the last fifty pages after he’s dead and can no longer challenge the narrative. So If Rowling had a ���crush” on Severus, she had a funny way of showing it.

That said, I do think Severus arc evolved over time. It’s totally plausible that he started off as a more caricatured antagonist—your classic bitter teacher—and then Rowling realized midway through the series that there was more depth to mine in him. That happens to a lot of writers, especially with long projects. Characters take on lives of their own, and initial plans shift as you grow, as your writing evolves, as your own worldview changes. So maybe she didn’t know what to do with him at first. But by the time she figured it out, she still didn’t frame him with the narrative care she offers her actual favorites.Because let’s be real, JKR does have clear favorites and Severus isn’t one of them.

I write too. I’ve created characters I adore, and sure, some of them have tragic ends, but if I love a character, you’ll feel it. Even in their downfall, you’ll know they were precious to me. With Severus, you get the opposite. You get disdain masquerading as complexity. You get narrative punishment with just enough nuance to keep him interesting, but not enough to make him feel truly seen.

So no, she didn’t “love” him. She tolerated him. She found him narratively useful. But she never gave him the softness or reverence she gave to her golden boys.

[sketchlm]

Honestly seeing discourse about the Bad Kids killing the Rat Grinders is very funny because... They've killed so many people. Like sure there's a discussion about in-character motives and everything, but also the BK's just kill a ton of people. Most people don't play DND and consider 'non-lethal' options. Brennan kept reiterating it at the start of the season. Murder is literally above redemption on almost everyone's list of priorities in Spyre. Aguefort literally establishes the concept of 'adventurers' as just violent wanderers that go around and kill things that they feel like need killing, this is literally what they go to school for.

The season started with them killing a bunch of fervent cultists, and the Bad Kids only started considering mercy when they started getting tired. I wouldn't have minded the Rat Grinders getting a redemption arc, and maybe they'll get revived somehow, but also the Bad Kids barely consider mercy to people they don't know, so people they HATE getting that sort of treatment already seemed off the table. Not to mention, this is instantly after the Rat Grinders tried to kill the Bad Kids and the entire student body, and are in the midst of casting a wild, out of control spell to raise a new god of wrath.

They literally killed Ragh and only decided to spare him because they went a little too far with their torture power play after they revivified him after brutally killing him. Aelwyn was too slippery to keep down consistently. Literally every character roughly their age that they're antagonistic towards that's still alive is part of the exception, not the norm.

[izzyfishie]

tbh i think the reason i haven’t made as much hwang bros content lately is because of the surrounding inhun/hwang bros discourse on twitter and how bad it’s gotten on both sides. and now that i was roped into it yesterday that kinda just cements that fear.

i still love them, it’s just like lowkey scary to have all your shit screencapped 😐

we as a fandom seem to lack the existence of mutual inclusion, i think. things can co-exist, and this is something i admit i struggle with as well!

so to make up for it, i’m going to supply a mini-ramble about in-ho

i believe it is important to not deny the canon importance of any party when it comes to in-ho (and any character really). jun-ho serves as his achillees heel and somebody he loves. gi-hun challenges in-ho’s morals. jun-hee is.. complicated, mainly because we rely solely on implications for how he feels on her as a person, but it’s shown he likely felt some sympathy for her or gave a blast to the past to his background.

all three are important to his characterization. so instead of inhun and hwang bros and jun-hee fans pitting against each another, we should acknowledge that in-ho is too multi-dimensioned for him to have just one character challenge his belief system. (does that not go for people as a whole, anyway?)

and it will never change how that bitch is gonna DIEEEE /silly

i find in-ho so interesting because of how complicated he is. he has the capability to feel sympathy, and in instances somewhat roots for gi-hun as HDH says, yet he continues to carry on with the games, seeing them as a necessary cycle, and already likely had a growing cynicism or disdain for humanity before he assumed the position of the frontman. (he was a cop, for crying out loud 😭)

i also like how irredeemable he is. NO chance homeboy’s getting a redemption arc. i am very excited to see him die in s3 though, from a cinematic and character perspective.

[lesmiserables-confessions]

i get genuinely enraged and seethe whenever i hear see or even THINK of gillenormand.

i am gillenormands number one hater. i hate that stupid dusty old fuck. i hate him to all hell. i hate him more than i hate shipping discourse. i hate him more than i hate the 2012 moving cutting grantaire's part of drink with me. i hate him more than i hate nick jonas playing marius. i hate him more than i hate people saying ruthie henshall's fantine was emotionless. i hate him Bad.

in my eyes i cannot bring myself to understand a single action he takes at a level further than stupid fucking old man-ness. i can barely bring myself to read about him and when i do i just get MORE ANGRY. every time.

sparknotes describes monsieur gillenormand as being "...generally well-liked, "quick-witted," and lively..." i don't know where this general consensus is coming from but it SURE AS HELL AINT FROM ME. where are you getting these statistics on this walking urn.

any time i see a sentence (from any form of media) that claims he loved marius i want to rip my hair out strand by strand. i do not believe that he did and if he did have any ounce of love for that boy in his heart he had the most downright despicable ways of showing it.

i will never accept any redeeming qualities of this man as canon because i hated him from the second i knew him and papa don't back down from a fight. you wanna tussle old man lets fucking tussle. it takes him this boys 20 fucking years to redeem himself and its just because oh he really loved him the whole time and is tending to his wounds and letting him live with him! IT TOOK HIM ALMOST DYING TO FUCKING DO THAT MUCH. THATS YOUR DAMN GRANDSONNN. i dont care what larger themes this character transformation represents. he's a cunt ass twat who shouldnt have lasted long enough in the book do have this redemption.

speaking of that, i would trade out the death of literally any other character in this story with his, because how he got to survive all this is beyond me when he's knocking on deaths door.

monsieur gillenormand you are the Worst and i hate you i hate you i HAAATTEEEYOUUUU.

thank you

.

[reunionatdawn]

Weighing in on ATLA shipping discourse

Iroh: You're not the man you used to be, Zuko. You are stronger and wiser and freer than you have ever been. And now you have come to the crossroads of your destiny. It's time for you to choose. It's time for you to choose good.

Why did Zuko have a fever after decided to let go of his Blue Spirit mask? Well, the imagery suggested that he experienced a Kundalini awakening. A Kundalini awakening is a profound spiritual experience that involves the activation and rising of Kundalini energy, located at the base of the spine. In Hindu and yogic traditions, Kundalini is often depicted as a coiled serpent, symbolizing dormant spiritual potential.

Ida and Pingala are the two energy channels that run alongside the spinal column and correspond to the left and right sides of the body, respectively. Ida is associated with the feminine or yin aspect. It is linked to qualities such as calmness, receptivity, intuition, and nurturing. It is also associated with the moon, coolness, and the element of water.

Pingala represents the masculine or yang aspect. It is associated with qualities such as activity, dynamism, alertness, and willpower. It is associated with the sun, warmth, and the element of fire. In the yogic tradition, the balance and harmonization of Ida and Pingala are considered essential for achieving physical, mental, and spiritual well-being.

Once the two energies combine at the crown chakra, a person's consciousness is supposed to transcend duality. What does that mean, exactly? It means to move beyond the perception of reality as consisting of opposing or dualistic concepts, such as good and bad, light and dark, right and wrong, or self and other. You understand that these apparent opposites are part of the same unified whole and are interconnected in a deeper, more profound way.

"I was head writer of ATLA, and this is exactly how I see it! There was some controversy that Zuko made the "wrong choice" at the end of season 2. A lot of fans were ANGRY! But it had to be this way… we wanted him to get everything he thought he wanted. The triumphant return. His father's respect, and a seat at his right hand. Only then could Zuko truly outgrow these things, and choose to do the right thing in a meaningful way." (Aaron Ehasz)

So, the symbolism definitely favors Zutara in that respect. Katara learned through Zuko that the Fire Nation is not innately evil. Even though he hurt her with his "wrong" decision, part of her character arc was understanding why he did it and being able to forgive him. And because he made that choice, she could trauma-dump onto him and that led to her gaining closure about her mother's death.

"I was head writer of ATLA. Azula and Zuko's relationship was not always well understood, even by the team internally. Azula loved Zuko, more than anyone save her father. She also felt competitive with him for their parents' attention of course, but since she had alienated herself from her mother, she focused her energy on pleasing dad… which of course meant acting in more and more intense and possibly evil ways." "By the end of the series, of course, her loss of her friends shatters the part of her identity that she could somehow control affection and love through intimidation. As a result she spirals… I did however intend to leave a kernel of humanity, and had we made a season 4 Azula would have completely bottomed and we would have explored the possibility of a path to redemption. True story!" (Aaron Ehasz)

But it's not even just Zutara. What I found interesting was that Azula was the blue dragon and Iroh the red dragon. Azula was crazy and needed to go down, right? By siding with his sister, you're meant to think that Zuko chose "evil" instead of "good". But it looks like some of the writers meant for it to be more complicated than that. There was no "good" or "evil" choice. Azula had a softer "yin" side, too.

Zuko wanted to get along with his sister. He did not want to kill her, even though Iroh thought that was the only option. The fact that Azula never got her redemption arc did a massive disservice to Zuko's arc as well. The fact that Azula had good in her is exactly why Zuko's choice in BSS couldn't truly be called "wrong" or "evil".

Azula loved Zuko and that idea wasn't conveyed very well in the cartoon. She was the one person on that beach who actually did understand him. She was jealous that Zuko chose the Avatar over her. And she knew that targeting Katara with her lightning was the best way to hurt Zuko. Katara found a non-lethal way to defeat Azula for Zuko's sake. Because after seeing how hard it was for him to fight her, she finally understood why he made his choice in Ba Sing Se.

"[Azula] had not bottomed in the end of season 3, she had further to go. At the deepest moment in her own abyss she would have found: Zuko. Despite it all, her brother Zuko would be there for her. Believing in her, sticking by her, doing his best to understand and help her hold her pain that she can no longer hold alone. Zuko — patient, forgiving, and unconditionally loving – all strengths he gained from Uncle Iroh." "And I always imagined that after coming out the other side, she would be one of those people who hilariously over-shares her own feelings all the time, and that she would be a bit over-apologetic. Like a Canadian version of Azula." (Aaron Ehasz)

The first episode of Book 3 was called The Awakening. Aang literally awakened to the energy twisted up in the middle of his back. He did not complete his spiritual transformation. The Kundalini energy did not reach his crown chakra. It was still blocked because he had an attachment to Katara that he hadn't worked through yet.

Zuko's awakening was figurative. Mai didn't understand how he felt. Symbolically, when she turned his head to kiss him, it showed the audience the scarred side of his face. When Zuko lied his sister, the unscarred side of his face was shown. I suspect that the writer for the episode, Aaron Ehasz, wanted to hint that Zuko did still feel a connection to Katara and didn't want Azula going after her and Aang.

Zuko in The Crossroads of Destiny was not supposed to be the same Zuko from The Avatar State. Both versions of Zuko still wanted to go home. But 201 Zuko was motivated more by selfish attachment. 220 Zuko was more motivated by love. He loved Azula unconditionally. Even with all of her twisted, ugly, and cruel behavior. His consciousness had transcended the duality of Iroh and Azula being opposites where one is "bad" and the other is "good". During The Beach he was fantasizing about a time when Iroh played with both of them as little kids. Back when they were all a family.

Mai: You know what will make you feel better? Ordering some servants around. I might be hungry for a whole tray of fruit tarts. And maybe a little palanquin ride around town. Double time.

I don't dislike Mai. I think she is an interesting character who was not a bad person or anything. I just thought she served a very specific narrative purpose. She was there to show how Zuko wasn't compatible with his old lifestyle anymore.

Mai wanted a typical socialite boyfriend. They really didn't get along too well or have much to say to each other during The Beach. She didn't like him when he started talking about his trauma and showed his uglier side. Zuko was insecure and jealous because he was not even sure if she really liked him. And she didn't even know the person he was after his banishment, only the person he was as a child. When he turned his head away from her, his unscarred side was shown.

Zuko: When I got to the meeting, everyone welcomed me. My father had saved me a seat. He wanted me next to him. I was literally at his right hand. Mai: Zuko, that's wonderful! You must be happy. Zuko: During the meeting, I was the perfect prince. The son my father wanted. But I wasn't me.

He walked out of that war meeting with the scarred side showing. Mai didn't love Zuko. She loved the perfect prince. The fantasy she built up in her head and the role Zuko was acting out at the start of the episode when he was ordering her the fancy fruit tarts.

Mai: I guess you just don't know people as well as you think you do. You miscalculated. I love Zuko more than I fear you.

Mai stood up to Azula to save Zuko, and she genuinely believed she loved him. But he left her behind to be with his new companions. If not for Ty Lee, she would have died. That should have been the end of that relationship. I thought it was very weird that they got back together. The NATLA writers should definitely find a different way to conclude Mai and Ty Lee's character arcs. Especially Mai. She deserved a more dignified ending than being left in prison and then threatening her ex-boyfriend to take her back.

"I love that even though Aang is sort of not in this story very much, to me, he's-his presence is in all of these scenes 'cause you know he's like the little angel on her shoulder [...]" (Bryan Konietzko)

The main reason I think the shipping discourse in the ATLA fandom is so toxic is because the creators Mike and Bryan saw the narrative differently than the other writers. They seemed to have a completely different vision for the story and characters compared to the head writer. So, there were two conflicting visions and fans who liked one over the other could argue their side indefinitely. Bryke saw things as more black-and-white and good vs. evil. You can see it in some of the interviews and commentary, particularly with Bryan.

IMO, there really was no "good" and "evil" side in The Southern Raiders. There was no "angel" or "devil" sitting on Katara's shoulders. To Katatra, what Aang said must have sounded like nothing more than a trite platitude. It's true that in the end, she didn't choose violence. But I don't think Aang's words were very pertinent to her decision-making when she finally faced Yon Rha, LOL.

It's understandable why Aang would come off as preachy, though. He was just a child coping with his own grief. The Air Nomads' philosophy was one of the only things he had left of them, after all. Such a teaching was no doubt his own personal coping mechanism.

Aang was right in the sense that Katara didn't need to resort to violence in the end. But ya know, maybe she would have if she didn't have someone by her side who understood her inner darkness and accepted her even if she had chosen violence. Just like how Aang might have killed the sanbenders if Katara hadn't been there. And Katara would not have condemned him if he had done so.

"Zuko and Katara might have shared some sparks, but sometimes there are people along your 'journey of love' who are there to teach you about yourself and what you really need, but don't necessarily end up being your partner. Come on, kids! 'Zutara' never would have lasted! It was just dark and intriguing." (Bryan Konietzko)

Zuko was a character of duality. Yin and Yang. Light and shadow. His two sides were represented by the scarred side and non-scarred sides of his face. I think Bryan viewed Zutara as a "dark" ship because a big part of Zutara was about Katara's shadow side.

Just like Mai did with Zuko, Aang built up a fantasy version of Katara in his head. The perfect, well, "waifu," I guess. The endlessly patient feminine maternal figure. The sweet beautiful girl with such manageable hair. But that's only half of who she was. There was another side to her that he never saw. One that used bloodbending. Angry, hateful. Yes, even ugly. And that's not a bad thing. It's human.

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

https://www.tumblr.com/twinsarekeepers/786696321217232896/idgaf-i-nodded-when-katara-bloodbent-that-piece-of

Thoughts on this take regarding Katara and blood bending?

*sighs eternally* I'm so fucking sick of this discourse, so here's the short version: Hama abused Katara. Fuck that bitch, fuck her bullshit "teachings", fuck her excuses, fuck her stans, fuck her apologists, and fuck the people that act like she was doing Katara a favor by abusing her, free my girl from this stupid fucking fandom.

Long version actually breaking down the horrible arguments of that post:

"She used the a power created by the only other waterbender, who used it to escape colonial power" Did you miss the part when Hama, an adult, tricked Katara, a child, into coming into the woods with her and then used said power to violate Katara's body? And then did the same to her friends? Aka, the part that means that, despite being a survivor from Katara's tribe, she's also HER ABUSER, because I cannot stress this enough, that's what Hama is: Katara's abuser.

And if you don't agree, ask yourself how you'd label Ozai if he "taught" Zuko to redirect lightining by shooting lightining at him, or at Ursa and Iroh, to force him into doing it - and that for each second Zuko fails to get a handle on it, he and those he cares about are in visible physical agony, while Ozai is just laughing at their suffering, and then has the nerve to look all smug and congratulate Zuko, who is left in tears after such a stressful situation.

"It felt like ancestral rage" Yes, it did, and rage is important and can sometimes be good. Sometimes it also poisons you and makes you do things you'll come to regret - yes, even when done against somebody who was a total piece of shit (see Zuko, the person who was with Katara on that journey, not burning Zhao's face even though we know the bastard would not have spared him)

"And yeah, that’s not how the (white) writers wanted us to view blood bending" And the tumblr users want us to view abusive behavior as good just because it came from someone who happened to be of the same ethnicity as the actual hero, even though betrayed said hero's trust in a horrible way - again, something said tumblr users don't do to Ozai.

The *gasp* white writers are holding the brown skinned woman to the same standard they hold the light skinned man, aka treating them equally, and since they both abused vulnerable children that trusted them and used "I'm trying to teach you something" as an excuse, their "students" reject their lessons, find support, and send their abusers to rot in prison where they belong - and redemption is not even off the table, it's just clear the children they abused won't be bending over backwards to make it happen, because they don't owe their abusers a damn thing.

Maybe ask yourself why you have a problem with that, because I assure you it's not because the writers are the ones with a double-standard here.

"Aang had energybending, Zuko had lightining bending" Aang used it as a last resource to avoid taking somebody's life, and it comes with the consequence of "If your spirit is even a tiny bit corrupt, your very soul will fucking die." That's a much more extreme consequence than just "I did this thing and felt bad about it" and I doubt that using it without care wouldn't count as corrupting his spirit, so it's a power that he cannot abuse without IMMEDIATELY getting screwed over.

And Zuko has lightining REDIRECTING. He cannot create it. Somebody needs to attack him first, and even if he aims it back at the person that shot it at him (with intention to KILL him no less), they will not suffer too much. Once again, it's a power that is basically impossible for him to abuse.

Both of these are VERY different from being able to, in Katara's own words "reach inside somebody and control them" and that can be used in anyway she wants, as long as there's a full moon, therefore the comparison is, at best, unfair, and at worst it's downright dishonest.

You wanna know a power that DOES work in a simmilar way to bloodbending? Ty Lee's chi-blocking abilities. Abilities Katara was always freaked out by, and that the show presents as scary and evil 9 times out of 10.

Katara is a compassionate character with a strong moral compass, believes punching down is wrong, and her introduction to bloodbending came in the form of abuse, betrayal and trauma. Of course she hates it. It makes perfect sense for her to hate it, and I'm glad the writers respected that instead of just going "LOOK AT THIS COOL NEW POWER BOOST!" just because she'd obviously only use it against bad people.

Once again, somebody please free my girl from this fucking fandom.