#tw; syscourse

[shattered-system]

Yes, punk is about going against the grain— sometimes

As in, discrimination against minorities is not punk

As in, abelism is not punk

Therefore endos aren’t punk

Hope this helps! ❤️

[thehealingsystem]

if you ever wonder why I don't interact with the traumagenic community as a traumagenic system this is why

[multiplesillylittleguys]

I wonder how an endo would react to actual OSDDID distress. Like an intense flashback where alters are screaming and crying and freaking out, where you're hyperventilating and get forced out of front because you're in too bad a mental state, even though everyone is.

Or when you're being taken advantage of because of your amnesia, perhaps adding to your already huge pile of trauma.

Or being somewhere, no idea how you got there and completely lost, panicking because how the hell are you going to find your way home? Where is home? Who even are you?

*actual* OSDDID isn't fun. It isn't just having people in your head. There's so much distress involved in this.

-Jayden

(ENDOS AND PRO-ENDOS DNI)

[candy-cloud-system]

Tw: syscourse ,

Endos DNI with this post.

Hot take; I shouldn’t have to be terrified to read / like posts. I should have to read the tags to make sure it’s not posted by an endo trying to infiltrate our spaces. I shouldn’t have to fear that the thing I’m gonna read is going to send me into a spiral because it’s gonna be some stupid ass shit about how “traumagenic systems are losers” or whatever the other stuff endos say about us is.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO HAVE AN ALTER WHO SITS OVER MY SHOULDER EVERY TIME I OPEN THIS APP THAT CAN PULL ME AWAY INCASE SOMETHING GETS BAD.

THAT SHOULD NOT BE A THING I, A TRAUMATIZED SYSTEM, SHOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHEN LOOKING FOR COMFORT OR SILLY CONTENT TO CHEER ME UP REGARDING THE TRAUMA FORMED DISORDER THAT WILL FOREVER MAKE MY LIFE DIFFICULT.

“Endos don’t hurt anyone🥺🥺🥺”

yes they fucking do.

- Sharkbite

[ghxst-system]

"The future is plural" movement from endos is CONCERNING

regardless of the fact they do not believe you require trauma to be a system (medically impossible) this proves they want to groom kids into identifying as endo and spread their medical misinformation further.

as well as causing real systems to believe they dont have it bad enough to be "traumagenic" (the only "genic you can be. this language is bullshit im just using these terms to explain their shit), preventing them from getting real help. they are WIDELY anti-recovery.

their misinformation has ALREADY endangered real systems medically as they have made professionals skeptical of a medically proven disorder, a disorder that is already very stigmatised.

outside of just endogenic misinformation, this statement leads to the idea that they want to traumatise kids to make more systems.

ENDOS ARE FUCKING DANGEROUS

[thestrawberrypack]

There definitely like Are systems who thought they were endogenic but realized they were traumagenic but the anti-endo rhetoric of "even if you think you're not traumatized you must actually be secretly traumatized and just repressed it otherwise you're an ableist and a faker and an attention seeker" is uh, Profoundly Fucked Up, Actually

Going up to strangers who say they experience multiple people living in their head and saying "actually you must have some horrific mind-shattering trauma you don't remember" is, well, I just don't think it's very good for them, best case scenario is they're truly endogenic and know better than to believe some random asshole online, worst case scenario is they go digging and unearth trauma they were not ready to process and have a mental health crisis, all just so randos online can deem them "uwu valid"

[snow-on-mtsilver]

when anti endos get upset about endos/pro endos using sp or pk(both pro endo) i think of this scene for some reason since like, they can't really "steal" other people's usage of those things, and they're free for everyone to use so like

[leptonyx-constellate]

btw if you think "fakers" in plural communities are a legitimate pressing problem that needs to be fixed and is actively harming plural communities at large, i really think you should step back and find some perspective. coming from a collective with DID that has been fakeclaimed on many occasions for various reasons, we need you to ask yourself these questions:

(A) who are you accusing of being fakers? what characteristics are you looking for to determine if someone is faking? (B) do you know for a fact that they're faking, or are you just assuming they are because they don't act "plural enough" in your eyes? (C) is there anything similar between you and these (apparent, so-called) fakers that others might use against you? (for example, having too many introjects, having introjects of a particular type/source, having too large or too small of a system, having too much or too little communication between your sysmates, having too much or especially too little amnesia/dissociation (especially if you have a CDD), having certain comorbid mental illnesses (personality disorders, schizo-spec disorders, psychosis in general, etc), having or not having certain kinds of trauma (especially if your system is traumagenic in any way), etc) (D) do you think people theoretically faking plurality themselves are leading to people not believing plurality exists or believing its so rare, or do you think it's more likely that the pervasiveness of fakeclaiming others and choosing not to provide benefit of the doubt is what's leading to people dismissing plurality as something fake or too rare for them to ever be concerned with it?

and finally:

(E) do you think people who are actually faking plurality (who are most likely doing it to get attention or find a sense of community/friendship) will suddenly stop faking because you chose to be cruel to them, or could it be possible that it's more likely that they'll be more willing to listen and change if you're kind and respectful and offer compassion to any true struggles they might have?

[possessed-pack]

Okay but will there actually come a day where anti-endos stop being ableist while also accusing others of being ableist? You can't preach that you're "protecting victims" while also sitting there being all "endos/those who support them are delusional!!". Psychosis is not your tool for hate, and psychotic people are no lesser than anyone else and do not deserve to be used to discredit other peoples experiences that you simply don't understand. Traumagenic DID systems who support endos exist, but you hate those too--what happened to protecting "actual trauma survivors"? You are not protecting disabled people, you are using them as a tool to explain your hatred for things you don't care to understand.

[w31rdm4g3dd0n]

I swear if I see an anti-endo say endogenic systems are claiming a trauma disorder when they're not, I'm going to scream. Like, yes, some endogenic systems do, but that's because they also have trauma?? Nobody is claiming you can have a trauma-based disorder without trauma, they're claiming plurality without a disorder.

I'll always say this:

Every disorder has a non-disordered counterpart. If it doesn't cause distress or affect at least one major area in functioning, it's not a disorder. This includes stuff like DID. Plurality is not a disorder, but DID is.

-Vito

[virovirokun-has-adhd]

email written by the author of the DSM-5

taken from SAS(@\sysmedsaresexist)'s post

i have no comments

Edit 30/7/24: added link to the post in question

[cccat-in-a-meat-sack]

Top three most insane end0 posts I've ever seen:

This one needs no explaining

It's the last paragraph, plus the "resetting" the system part (PROGRAMMED SYSTEM TERM)

Also needs...no explanation

[syllvarin]

Non-traumagenic plurality: How could it be possible?

First off, let's start with what some anti-endo folk mean versus what they don't mean with traumagenic plurality

They mean systems caused by/as a response to trauma and traumatic events, and those who are still affetced by them, aka systems who are disordered, DID/OSDD/UDD.

What they don't mean is systems who have trauma in their origin along with other causes. They do not believe a system can very well be traumagenic but function smoothlessly due to recovering, or have multiple origins.

Note: We are a diagnosed DID system with mixed (trauma/ramcoa/neuro/para) origins. Yes, we know what we are talking about. No, that doesn't mean we can't do mistakes, but we will try our best to be as accurate as possible. We will include scientific articles, DSM-5 DID checklist, and many more in this post.

How can that be possible?

1st: Brains are quite complicated. Research on brain functions is far from being complete, it is a long road that we are still at the very beginning of. We still don't know how brain exactly works let alone how it can form seperate conscious identities and work them together. We do know headmates exist based on brain MRI's ( link here ) That proves us that systems indeed, exist.

2nd point i want to make is that science is not done in a linear fashion. We are studying to be neuroscientists ourselves and the very core of what makes science doable is MONEY. Yes, in this capitalist system even the most seemingly basic research requires funding, money, and a goal that can be monetized to get done. Reseaches on female autonomy, rare disorders and "demonized" disorders such as DID is therefore not often as it is not easily capitalized and funded.

Therefore we do not have enough research to prove or disprove that the only way of becoming a system is through childhood.

And that brings me to my 3rd point, where we will take a look at what DSM-5 (The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) says about diagnostic crietria of DID. We will see how it is a dissocative disorder, not a trauma disorder.

Found under dissociative disorders (not trauma disorders!), checklist for DID is as follows:

See how none of those checklist include trauma as checklist? Yes DID is commonly caused by trauma but not always. Yes it commonly is created during childhood but not always. Those arent in diagnostic criteria.

Definitive feature is not trauma, it is distinct personality states or experience of possession.

DID is associated with traumatic events, does not mean it requires it.

DID can manifest at almost any age (DSM-5 is saying that, folks)

What's more is OSDD doesnt even have a definitive checklist like DID. it is found under differential diagnosis, with other disorders. PDID (partial DID where one part is frontstuck a majority of the time) is also up to psychiatrist's evaluation rather than a concrete checklist.

4th point is : What about Structural Dissociaton Theory?

This theory is as it goes: The theory of Structural Dissociation works off of the assumption that everyone is born with different ego states that later merge in life. Those different ego states operate for different actions in life, that later integrate into one person during ages of 4-6. Trauma disrupts that integration and causes ANP (apparently normal parts) and EP (Emotional parts). EP's are stuck in the trauma while ANP's are not.

source: The Haunted Self: Structural Dissociation and the Treatment of Chronic Traumatization" by Onno van der Hart, Ellert Nijenhuis, and Kathy Steele. 

Yes, theory. Theories are not concrete. They can be disapproved, they can change, they may not fit every experience. Structural dissociation only explains how DID can manifest at childhood, but we already know by now that DID can manifest at almost any age.

So I personally think basing everything on a theory about how DID might've been caused (which doesn't even perfectly explain every possible way) is not as fault-proof as one might think it is.

Point 5: experiences of "multiple identities" exist for so long into history (people who are possessed, talk to themselves, act weird at times, are very different at times, etc), way before any DID/OSDD terms were created. And actually, how can we know how many people in history have had this experience when the very society we are in is very scared of them? It is fair to say only the disruptive cases must've been noticed, and majority of them probably were either deemed as crazy or exorcised as they believed those people were possessed by spirits. Just because your experience does not fit with others and just because science hasnt done anything to back them up, doesn't mean people's lived experiences are false. Why would so many people tell that they are a system when they are not? We are not living in a place where being a system is happy or fun, we are not in a society where its profitable or anything. It literally gives a person zero + points for being plural if they arent. It would be a nonstop roleplay they have to keep up throughout every aspect of their life; and at that point, it must be either impossible or that person is already plural and not roleplaying when no one is looking at them.

Creating headmates is on the same basket. A person with DID can create headmates in blink of an eye (we know from oursleves) sometimes splitting threshold is so low you may split off multiple people at once. You cannot know what is going in a person's mind, and what mechanisms work for creating a headmate. If they claim they did, it is very much no chance they are faking being different people 24/7. It *is* a real chance that they actually did develop a headmate. If you do not believe them; ask them about their experiences. I am %100 positive that if you actually listen to them, you will see those people are only trying to live their life.

Also, if you think healthy systems cannot exist and only way to be a system is through dissociation and dysfunction; then why would DID systems try to heal anyway? Wouldn't that just be sanist and ableist to expect all of them to turn into singlets because healthy multiplicity isnt a thing?But no, it is a thing, and healthy multiplicity and recovery is possible for systems. DID and other disordered forms of plurality do indeed exist, and they are indeed, treatabe in multiple ways according to what a person feels comfortable with. That is also a system's right to heal however they please. They don't owe anyone their right to stay as plural or become a singlet.

6th point I want to make is about: Why do we even care?

If a person says they have multiple people in their head, why do we care and tell them they are faking? They are not claiming to have a diagnosis, even if they did; if their situation is causing a distress to them, then they ARE diagnosable and that therefore is none of our business, again.

Last point I want to make is how endogenic DID is possible. yes, possible. remember how trauma is not in diagnostic criteria and DID can happen at any age? If endogenic plurals can happen, they can also form DID at later in life. They can also become disordered due to an event in their life. They can lose harmony and become so dysfunctional they need professional help. That doesn't mean they are no longer endogenic or some other origin, that simply means their state is different than what it was and they need help.

End of our post. Thank you for reading.

[the-alarm-system]

If your “traumagenic safe space” has “mixed origins Dni” then it’s not a traumagenic safe space

[candy-cloud-system]

Hey just so you know. DNIs exist for a reason. If I have someone who is (Pro) Endo say absolutely anything to me, if that’s in comments, asks, dms or whatever. Don’t be surprised if I’m hostile back.

Respect my fucking DNI, and if you don’t, you don’t deserve MY respect. I will be rude, I will be pissy, I will say thing you don’t like and I won’t care if you call me a bitch! Thanks!

I try to be nice but I just don’t have patience or energy for people who go out of their way to interact whenever I’ve stated I DONT WANT THEM AROUND ME!

So fuck you endos, fuck off if you support endos, you’re not welcome on any of my blogs. I am allowed to be fucking pissed, and I’m allowed to hate you. Block me idgaf. You can’t have a traumagenic disorder without trauma!

Anyways um. To all my fellow traumagenic systems who have to deal with this stupid bullshit, here’s a picture of a random cat :3

[subsystems]

There's been a lot of harmful invalidation and misinformation floating around trauma spaces lately about the cause of complex dissociative disorders like DID. Please, let's put to rest the trauma olympics and claiming that certain childhood traumas are more "valid" than others. The childhood trauma that causes someone's DID does not need to be sexual or physical abuse, or even abuse at all.

From Understanding and Treating Dissociative Identity Disorder: A Relational Approach, by Elizabeth Howell (pages xvii - xviii):

"DID is usually the outcome of chronic and severe childhood trauma, which can include physical and sexual abuse, extreme and recurrent terror, repeated medical trauma, and extreme neglect. Pathological dissociation generally results from being psychically overwhelmed by trauma. . . . However, the traumatic experiences that may result in dissociative disorders do not always stem from sexual, physical, or emotional abuse. Disorganized attachment which often underlies the dissociative structure of dissociative disorders . . . may result from overwhelming experiences in the infant's interpersonal environment that are not caused by parental maltreatment. Parental illness, depression, or problematic attachment styles may be psychically overwhelming and lead to disorganized attachment. In addition, medical trauma may be dissociogenic. For example, some dissociative patients have reported histories of chronic medical problems and hospitalizations that involved severe pain and unavoidable separations from well-meaning parents. Medical trauma may involve both the chronic and severe pain of certain diseases and conditions as well as painful procedures intended to remediate these medical conditions. Some dissociative adult patients have reported the trauma of being left alone to suffer their pain as children in the hospital. Such children may be additionally confused by the fact that their parents are either hurting them, as part of necessary medical interventions or allowing others to hurt them . . ."

You can find a free download of this book and others [here]. I highly recommend reading it, it's one of my favorite books on DID. If you're able to, please consider purchasing a copy of it to support the author too!

Anyways, if you're reading this and you've been harmed by the recent influx of trauma invalidation, please know that I'm here for you. I believe you. Your trauma is REAL and it was ENOUGH to cause your disorder. You were a child and no child deserves to go through trauma. No one.