#which might be the most drastic character development

[scumbag-the-hedgehog]

Makes them actually contend with the fact that they need to accept their losses in order to improve

Helps make them reorient towards proper training and improvement instead of relying on anarchy beryl

Manages to make them to contend with their gender identity without even trying to do this

Intentionally teaching them new skills

Crystal unironically making them better is still so insane to me

[deception-united]

Let's talk about grumpy x sunshine tropes.

Arguably one of the most well-loved tropes in media, for good reason. The dynamic where one character is perpetually cynical, stoic, or irritable while the other is warm, cheerful, and outgoing often makes for good banter and conflict, and it's satisfying to watch the grumpy character's reluctance develop into the relationship as they warm up to the other. But it's important to do it well. Here are some tips.

The Appeal

What makes this trope work?

Contrast = Chemistry

The clashing personalities creates tension as well as opportunities for banter, which adds to the chemistry between the characters; and their differences and areas of disagreement force them both to grow and adapt for the sake of the other.

Vulnerability

As their relationship develops, you'll often see the sunshine character helping the grumpy character to confront their emotional walls, whether by pushing them or when they come down on their own over time as they grow closer to each other. This also leads to the grumpy character softening around the sunshine character.

Humour

This whole dynamic naturally comes with its own comedic situations—whether that be witty retorts, misunderstandings, or the sunshine character's relentless attempts to brighten the grumpy character up.

Dos and Don'ts

Do:

Give them depth. Have reasons for their respective personalities, motivations, goals, who they avoid, how they act around new people—the grumpy character's personality, for example, aside from just being a part of their character, might also have elements that stem from past trauma or a fear of vulnerability, amongst other things. Avoid making them one-dimensional, like just making the grumpy character a jerk and the sunshine character obnoxiously naïve.

Show mutual growth. As their relationship develops, both characters should influence the other in various ways. An obvious example of this would be the sunshine character learning boundaries or resilience, and the grumpy character being able to open up more.

Balance their dynamic. Make the relationship feel like partnership rather than a one-sided emotional rescue mission. Both characters should be contributing to and benefiting from the relationship.

Build it up gradually. A slow burn typically works best with this trope. Let their relationship develop over time, give them reasons to connect and bond and grow. This will make the eventual payoff more satisfying for the reader.

Have balance. Make each character complement the other without dominating the narrative. They should feel like a team rather than one character "fixing" the other.

Create situations that force interaction. Whether they’re co-workers, roommates, or trapped together somewhere, proximity is key to fostering their dynamic, essentially forcing it when their personalities naturally go against each other.

Don't:

Make the sunshine character a doormat. Don't let them exist solely for the purpose of catering to the grumpy character's needs and pushing them for growth—give them agency, independence, and their own goals and motivations.

Have one-sided growth. It’s not just about the sunshine character "fixing" the grumpy character; both should influence and challenge each other.

Overuse miscommunication. Misunderstandings happen in relationships, and likely more when the characters' personalities contrast so drastically, but constant misunderstandings and miscommunication can frustrate readers. Try to use it more sparingly and don't drag out the resolution for conflict that is petty or largely unimportant to the overall plot.

Make the dynamic toxic. Unless this is your intention, of course, but if you're trying to develop a healthy and lovable romance, keep in mind that grumpy doesn't mean cruel. The grumpy character might have certain reservations or personality quirks, but being stoic or unapproachable doesn't inherently equate to being emotionally abusive.

Oversimplify the sunshine character. Cheerful and outgoing shouldn't automatically mean being naïve or oblivious. The sunshine character should be complex in their own right, and capable of experiencing a range of emotions, both positive and negative.

Make the sunshine character too overbearing. A sunshine character who ignores boundaries or forces positivity onto the grump can come across as irritating and socially inept rather than endearing.

Overdone?

Some things are overdone and everyone's tired of them; others are overdone because no one gets tired of them. So:

Overdone, unfortunately:

Unexplained 180: The grumpy character changes overnight with no believable arc.

"You’re the only one who gets me": While sweet in moderation, it can feel contrived if the sunshine character magically understands the grump without effort.

Damsel in distress: Turning the sunshine character into a helpless figure who needs constant saving undermines their strength.

Overdone, but please continue:

Forced proximity: Setups like this are cliché but effective when done well, and fun to read.

Grumpy protects sunshine: The grumpy character reluctantly stepping up to shield the sunshine character is not only adorable but leads to deeper emotional connections.

Soft spot: The grumpy character's’s hidden affection for the sunshine character always lands well if subtle.

Happy writing and thank you all for 3000! ❤

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[cy-lindric]

bonjour cy-lindric, j'ai une petite question. when I was a young person, I read The Three Musketeers and then eagerly started to read Twenty Years After and was so upset at what had happened to my beloved young heroes that I put the book down and never picked it up. what do you think, should I try again?

Bonjour !

After reading The Three Musketeers, I also wasn't sure I wanted to read Twenty Years After, and I took a break inbetween both to read something entirely different (The Locked Tomb, iirc). I think my reason for that was kind of the opposite of yours ; I enjoyed T3M a lot and loved the characters, flaws and all, but by the end they had somewhat crossed over the line into being Too Awful and the lack of retribution left me a bit frustrated. I didn't see it as a failing of the story - on the contrary, their strong character flaws and downfall in the conflict with Milady is one of the most emotionally intense and compelling parts imo - but I wasn't sure I felt like hanging out with these guys for a few hundred more pages at that point.

If your vision of the characters as a young reader was a very positive and perhaps idealized one, I can imagine why you might not have enjoyed entering into Twenty Years after. The illusion of glory has worn off ; the characters have separated, they live unremarkable lives, and their personalities have evolved drastically with the passing of time. It's almost a brutal return to reality.

For me though, it added layers of characterization to the point where now it's clear to me that this version of the Inseparables is by far the one I prefer.

I hope it's ok if I take the opportunity to talk at length about what I like about TYA below the cut. TL;DR : I love that Twenty Years After is a more realistic look at the big four's personalities and how they evolved while still keeping them thematically coherent, and that TYA makes them confront the reckless and cruel shit they did in their youth.

Spoilers ahead obviously.

We've often talked about how T3M is at its core a story about the end of knighthood. It's a tongue-in-cheek approach at chivalrous initiation, set at edge of the modern world, inbetween the time of ballads about knights in armor and that of adventures about journeying gunmen and soldiers. I think TYA embodies that particularly ; the story of people who have carried the last of these intense, dangerous chivalric ideals in their youths, and who have now grown into middle aged adults who need to find their place in the world.

For a good chunk of the book, the big four are separated into two teams ; that in of itself might discourage some, but imo it's genius. Instead of the natural two-by-pairings, Dumas goes for a d'Artagnan+ Porthos and Athos + Aramis split on opposite sides, which makes for good drama and develops lesser explored dynamics. D'Artagnan and Porthos form a scrappy team of opportunists with money on their minds, and Athos and Aramis a more idealistic duo fighting for a noble lost cause. I think it's a bold choice but also premium sequel writing.

I also love the way the young and wild characters we knew evolve into middle aged men ; at their core, they're still the same, but they've all changed and struggled against the sunset of the golden age in their own ways.

D'Artagnan, after knowing such adventures and subsequent rapid social ascension in his teenage years, has been met in his adult life with the harsh reality that he is, in fact, not a noble knight but a soldier on payroll. His modest origins give him little hope for any further career advancement, and he takes on a new mission in his early 40s for a man he has no devotion for and a cause he doesn't care about, simply because he is bored and broke. D'Artagnan still has his quick wits, his strategic talent, his fencing skills, but he has grown out of the excesses of pride of his teenage years. I loved meeting him again in TYA, and it made so much sense to me that his bouts of anger and aggressivity would be a youthful trait that he'd ended up taming. He also realizes now a lot of what seemed like funny adventures and necessary violence was actually kind of fucked up ; that was a shock to me, as their shenanigans are treated so lightly in T3M, and tbh it healed me a little. Grown up d'Artagnan is cunning, calculating, down to earth and realistic. My foxy little man. I love him.

Porthos, likewise, has been struck by the weight of reality. He has made the sensible choice and got married to the rich widow who sugar mommied him in the first book. Now she's passed, he is rich, but he still fails to earn the respect of the high society he evolves in because he's not high born enough. Like d'Artagnan, he's stagnating and bored and now that he goes back adventuring it has nothing to do with the queen or the kingdom or honour ; it's about getting his damn nobility title.

Athos, on the other hand, is the eternal knight : the only truly high born of the four, and still hopelessly holding on to a time gone by. It's no surprise imo that his storyline brings him into the english civil war, doomed to fail at saving a king who'll end up executed right in front of him. TYA acknowledges more clearly than ever that at 28 yo, Athos was a depressed alcoholic, and an embodiment of what an excess of aristocratic righteousness can do. In TYA, he is sober and moisturized and a DILF, and now he's running around frantically looking for absolution for his numerous crimes. It's delicious.

Aramis is maybe the hardest pill to swallow. TYA confirms the T3M hints that he isn't really the prim and proper romantic boy he acts like he is, and that he's possibly the most hypocritical and ruthless of the four. It might be a harsh one for Aramis fans who like him better as a cute bean, but I love the early onset of remorseless conniving bloodthirsty ambitious Aramis. Another harsh bit might be the evolution of Aramis and d'Artagnan not really liking each other ; they were always the least close combination, and imo it makes sense that their personalities would clash. I think it's clever and compelling conflict.

Now, obviously, if you've cared enough to read all this and if you know me a little, you know that a huge highlight of the book for me was its late-appearing antagonist, Mordaunt. Mordaunt is the son Milady had with her english husband. Because of the Musketeers' intervention, he's grown up in poverty and has been denied his father's inheritance. He's now a Roundhead working for Cromwell, and set on avenging his mother at all costs. Mordaunt, unlike his mother who was this beautiful and dangerous force of nature, is very uncool and pathetic. She was the primordial snake, he's the gutter rat. Obviously, I love that in and of itself, but it's also kind of striking image of the wretchedness of what they've done to her, a fucked up little goblin ghost come back to haunt them as they're trying to make their life worth living again. This time, their enemy is not a cunning political rival with a flamboyance of body and mind akin to their own ; it's a shitty little guy with bad skin who wants to kill the king and punish the murderers. Watch out babes, it's the modern world coming for you.

Of course, they're the Four Musketeers, and they did what they had to do, so they get together again and swear friendship and keep going their way. But they're also old guys with difficult personalities in a world that's never going to be the same. I think it's a cool book.

[guidaozongshi]

Just read your post "why sns and not ss" and you are 100% right. I would also say that for nh they also had to push Sasuke away and downplay Naruto emotional intelligence to make it work. The problem with those ships is that they dont seem natural. And I am not saying that because I am a sns shipper. I am part of other fandoms and there are some ships that I don't like but can admit they have chemistry and their romance feels natural.

I think a lot of people give NH a pass because its counterpart, SS, is not only worse in terms of romantic development but also has what might be the most toxic fandom imaginable. The issue with NH, however, is that it has almost negligible content in the manga, compounded by one of the most baffling writing decisions: Naruto not even acknowledging Hinata’s confession after she risked her life to make it. If Kishimoto had already decided that Naruto would end up with Hinata, why didn’t he integrate her into Naruto’s thoughts or development moving forward? The few moments we do get after her confession are sparse and underwhelming: Kiba teasing Naruto for apparently showing off his powers in front of Hinata after saving her, Naruto sensing Hinata’s self-doubt on the battlefield and cheering her up, Naruto and Hinata holding hands over Neji’s dead body... which is a choice, Hinata snapping Naruto out of a daze, and Naruto being drawn toward the Tsukuyomi-affected Hinata after she mentally calls out to him. These moments, while not inherently bad and even serving as a decent foundation for further development, are few and far between—you can count them on one hand. Under an author genuinely interested in exploring their relationship, these could have been the building blocks for a natural progression. Instead, we get The Last, which skips over any meaningful development and instead guilt-trips Naruto into reciprocating Hinata’s feelings. Kishimoto himself admitted he wasn’t emotionally invested in their relationship, and Studio Pierrot’s handling of the story pushed the most out-of-character version of Naruto to make it work. Naruto’s emotional intelligence, which is central to his character, are replaced with an oblivious, emotionally stunted version of himself who can’t perceive romantic love. It’s clear that much of this characterization was a projection or self-insertion by the SP writers, resulting in a Naruto who feels drained of his usual energy and charisma—barely recognizable as the character.

More under the cut-

On the other hand, SS fans often boast about Sasuke and Sakura having the "most moments" simply because they spent time together as teammates. To some extent, this is true—Sasuke did grow to care about Sakura, seeing her as part of Team 7 and someone worth protecting. However, many of the scenes hailed as "SasuSaku moments" are just standard teamwork interactions. The hug in the Forest of Death, which causes Sasuke to snap out of the curse mark’s influence, is frequently celebrated as the peak of their relationship development. Yet, this moment is never referenced again in the series, and it doesn’t hold exclusivity, as Sasuke later demonstrates the ability to control the curse mark simply by thinking of his concerned teammates. While the scene was undeniably significant in establishing that Sakura had become familiar and important to Sasuke, but for Sasuke, Sakura is never individuated from Team 7—unlike Naruto, who stands out as a distinct and irreplaceable bond. Then Part 2 happens, and their relationship takes a drastic nosedive. Sasuke severs his bonds with Sakura and Kakashi, and his interactions with Sakura become overwhelmingly negative. When he isn't outright ignoring her in favor of Naruto, he attempts to kill her without remorse as if she’s a mere obstacle in his path, he repeatedly insults her, delivers a brutal rejection, and, most damningly, shows no hesitation when her life is at risk during the war, treating her as expendable collateral. Despite the positive strides in their relationship during Part 1, Part 2 completely dismantles any sense of connection or mutual feelings, leaving their dynamic in shambles.

However, if I were to evaluate their relationships from an intra-narrative perspective, NH epitomizes writing that exists solely for fan wish-fulfillment, and in some ways, it’s worse than SS. Unlike Sakura, Hinata is barely a character in her own right—she functions more as a prop for Naruto. Her entire existence revolves around him; her thoughts begin and end with Naruto, and what little characterization she has outside of him, such as her involvement in clan politics, is sidelined. Her ideology is entirely shaped by Naruto, she’s beaten up so Naruto can champion her, and she’s nearly killed to serve as a breaking point that triggers Naruto’s rage. All of this feeds into the fantasy of the protagonist ending up with a demure, devoted, and busty girl who not only has no conflicts with him but also unconditionally validates him. It doesn’t matter that Naruto barely thinks about her or keeps forgetting her —what matters is that the audience projecting themselves onto Naruto get their wish fulfilled.

A lot of people accuse Kishimoto of being incapable of writing romance, but a look at the manga easily disproves this claim. Pairings like Dan/Tsunade, Konan/Nagato, Minato/Kushina, and even Shikamaru/Temari are examples of believable and naturally developed romantic relationships. The criticism surrounding SS and NH isn’t exclusive to SNS shippers—even non-shippers and casual readers often point out how poorly these relationships are written. The issues with SS and NH aren’t just a matter of personal preference; they’re objectively flawed in terms of development and consistency. While Kishimoto has proven he can write romance, SS and NH stand out as exceptions, feeling forced and driven more by fan service than by the story’s natural progression.

A few months ago, I came across a Reddit thread discussing why Minato and Kushina’s relationship in the one-shot is written so well, especially compared to the main pairings. The thread was filled with a lot of coping, with some responses suggesting that Kishimoto had "improved" at writing romance over the years or that Naruto isn’t a romance manga. These arguments conveniently ignore the fact that Minato and Kushina’s romance, along with others were already present in the original manga.

But there was one comment who truly hit the nail on the head.

[starshower1215]

A Theory on Hange Zoë's Backstory: Why Could They Be Estranged from Their Family?

I always had this theory from before Isayama said that Hange seems to be estranged from their family, but the disclosure of this new information didn't disprove it in any way, and in fact, added more to it.

The most general reasons for being estranged from family is due to the family member leaving themself, with reasons such as of some level of abuse, drastically differing life views or values, unresolved conflict, etc., or due to the family itself ostracizing the individual, for whatever reason that may be. Considering the nature of Hange's character—extremely inquisitive and knowledge-driven—then it is safe to assume that, since they are considered eccentric even in the Survey Corps, they were likely shunned in society as well, especially as a child, when social skills of a young mind have yet to develop enough to be aware of what should and shouldn't be said.

It is shown from the very beginning of AoT, too, that anyone taking interest in the outside world is considered a 'heretic,' a title that readers see Armin's childhood bullies using directly to address Armin. Books about the outside world, such as the one Armin gets from his grandfather, are outlawed by the government, and as is stated directly in the anime, anyone expressing interest in the outside world is rejected. Further exploring their estrangement in the context of that knowledge, could it be assumed that Hange is estranged from even their family due to their natural tendency to gravitate towards discovery?

The most likely location for such a drastic measure to take place could only be in Wall Sina, where government suppression and control is as rampant as ever, and the rich will do whatever it takes to stay rich—including the censorship of knowledge, the thing that Hange is shown to despise so much. The active support and maintenance of ignorance clashes directly with what Hange advocates for, not out of their desire for freedom, which seems to come later on after some character development, but out of their natural curiosity. If Hange had expressed interest in what could have been outside the walls, even if it were unrelated to the titans, this would be cause enough for societal rejection in Wall Sina, since their expectations are so strict.

Another possible factor that comes with this theory is the social status that Hange's family would have had, coming from Wall Sina, whose citizens are obviously high class. While it isn't specified about how society works within the walls, some details can be extracted about 'sub-groups.' There are the Wallists, the highly conservative church worshiping the walls as gods, the House of Lords in Parliament, and the Anti-Expedition Faction, a sub-group of the House of Lords holding influence over the expeditions of the SC, all of which can be plausible roles for Hange's family to hold, and all of which hold some sort of status in society which would be annihilated with the exposure of Hange's true personality and desires. This offers an incentive for oppression and exploitation of parental control over Hange as a child, feeding into the idea of clashing life values and conflict forcing alienation.

One thing that is not explained is Hange's initial abhorrence surrounding the titans. Readers are told only that Hange joined the Survey Corps out of resentment, and that they fueled themself with it to slaughter titans. Then they kicked the head of the 3-meter titan, and are shocked by the lightness of it, and then by the existence of titans as a whole. The shock rewires their mindset, making them think differently instead:

This shows that the scene where Hange kicks the titan's head is not only a moment of realisation, but also one of growing up. They realise that things are not the way that they often appear to be, which might apply to more than just titans.

To explain, another part of Hange's mannerisms should be explored. It seems as though they use escapism as a coping mechanism, or that, at the very least, they tend to avoid acknowledging their own emotions. The biggest example of this is the forest scene, where Hange thinks, albeit not in a completely serious manner, about running off to live in the forest, to escape the troubles of the war. It is a fleeting thought, but it still brings them some semblance of comfort. There is also this scene from Chapter 89:

Prior to this, Historia had been reading the letter that Ymir had written to her just before she died, so she'd obviously be in a melancholy mood. Then she softens the mood further, expressing both her pride for her friends, and her concern, as they do not seem to have been given the time to properly mourn their late comrades. When she basically says, "I thought you'd all be sadder about this," Eren responds, "That's because we haven't processed it yet."

Immediately after, Hange says, "We better get going soon," as though to rush them along or to say, in regards to Eren's message, "And we're not going to right now," lol. Given the additional lack of panels or dialogue to create time between Eren's words and Hange's, it gives off a sense of urgency in Hange's words, as though it is they themself who needs to get a move on in order to escape the vulnerable atmosphere of the room. It is also interesting that they choose this moment to 'interrupt,' since Eren is saying outwardly that none of the Survey Corps have taken in what happened during the Return to Shiganshina. The feeling extends to Hange as well, but they are the only one out of the group to rush the others back to business.

There is also Hange's unprecedented dedication to their research, going about it with an almost obsessive behavior. While this can definitely just be their passion and their means of dedicating their heart to the cause of the Survey Corps, it is also undeniable that they work themself to unhealthy lengths to do so. However, a lot of their research stems from pure love for it, so this is merely an additional, slightly more biased point on my part.

Still, I digress. No matter what how abusive a family is, there's always going to be a profound sense of pain with estrangement from them. If not from being disowned from the bloodline itself, but from the sadness of knowing that a family, that parents, are supposed to love you—but that yours don't. This in mind with their coping mechanism of avoidance, is it possible for Hange to have channeled this pain into anger, which projected itself onto the titans (whether consciously or not), in order to escape the pain of their familial abandonment?

I have a personal opinion that Hange wouldn't be able to say something like, 'Screw your inferiority complex! Don't run from reality!' without knowing just a little bit about that themself. If their theoretical past with society has anything to say for them, then an inferiority complex might be a plausible effect of being shunned, especially as a child. They might blame themself for being an outcast, because what can children do but blame themselves? When adults portray themselves as the ultimate beings to be trusted and to lean on, even as they abuse children, and especially if they are the ones who are supposed to love children, it is difficult for other possibilities to cross a child's mind. However, with the development of the mindset of 'Things may not be the way they seem on the surface,' Hange turns their world upside down.

This makes the titan-kicking scene even more of a pivotal point. This is where they learn not only to embrace the world and the titans, but themself as a part of it. Learning that things can be questioned, that things that were once solidified in the mind can be overturned in the blink of an eye, or the kick of a leg, provides the basis for Hange's realisations surrounding their past, how none of it was truly their fault despite how it was made to appear on the surface, and how there is really nothing wrong with studying the outside world—titans included—despite the perspective pressured on them from birth. They learn to pursue their love instead of their hate this way, wanting to see things from all angles always, because they know that knowledge is temporary. Any knowledge in possession now can be disproved with just one detail. In this sense, the titans, ironically, provide Hange with their first taste of freedom—the one freeing them from themself.

They are able to fully embrace the Survey Corps now, pursuing freedom instead of hatred, knowledge instead of blind acceptance, and eventually becoming the incredible 14th commander showcased in the real story.

[randomness-is-my-order]

Do you think if jc had an adult like wwx around him while being a teenager he would've turned out different? I absolutely LOVE your takes, so I am very curious as to what your thoughts on this topic are

i mean, the trivial answer would be: yes. he would be different, in some capacity, in some small way at the very least, granted here that the influence the wei wuxian-like adult would have on jiang cheng would be noteworthy and long lasting to begin with. we kind of see it happen with jin ling who has a caretaker who is sort of like madame yu in the form of jiang cheng (less emotionally abusive) and is spoiled and so, he’s a brat when we are first introduced to him but wei wuxian’s influence on him is pretty noticeable by the end—remembering of course, that the revelations and truth about how his parents actually died also played a role in his change of heart. but the key thing to remember here is that jin ling had the inherent will to change, to do better, to absorb the better behaviours he was being subjected to and mould them into his personality.

i’ve worked with kids of various ages (5-15 years) and i’ll draw from my experience there a bit: teenagers have already (usually) reached a stage where they have developed their self-identity to a large extent. they’re all susceptible to influence and capable of change (this never stops, no matter our age) but they learn more by observing and responding and going through consequences than direct inculcation of values. this might seem obvious, maybe, but the change in jiang cheng would hinge on how much this hypothetical wei wuxian-esque adult figure is involved in his life, how much jiang cheng is willing to learn through this influence, and how deep a connection he shares with this person.

in a way, jiang cheng already did have this influence in the form of wei wuxian himself. though they were peers, alot of the values we see wei wuxian imparting to the next gen—he exposed jiang cheng to in his first life. standing up for what’s right, even if it is difficult. not letting convention impale jc with doubts about his future leadership. to not say things thoughtlessly (something even jiang fengmian tried to teach jc), etc. though, i completely accept that these kinds of teachings are much easier to digest when coming from an adult figure than someone you consider to be your future subordinate.

the most important avenue for me here would be to consider whether this wei wuxian-like adult was able to step in between madame yu’s verbal and emotional abuse directed towards jc. and if we really are being literal about the “wei wuxian” inspired individual, then they would be able to shield jc from that vitriol, which does play a significant part in shaping jc. but the other significant parts are his innate nature, his social standing which would provide him certain privileges and world views regardless and his upbringing up until teenagehood.

honestly, i have considered these sorts of questions in variety of other fandoms. particularly, in the percy jackson fandom, one of the common discourse points is whether percy and luke would flip roles were their upbringings swapped and one of the conclusions of it that i will always stand by is that: a character is not a sum of their backstories, wherein you can replace them block for block and recreate the same character twice. irl, people under the exact same situations react in drastically different ways to their circumstances (the multitudes are present in mdzs itself, in how jc, jyl and wwx respond to madame yu’s abuse). there IS an element of simple innate nature playing a role which makes me believe that jiang cheng’s trajectory with a wei wuxian like adult would not follow jin ling’s because they are different people within.

jiang cheng would be have to be receptive to the more positive influence but he canonically does fixate more on the negatives he is being exposed to and he would have to make a fundamental change to benefit meaningfully from the wei wuxianish figure. he would change, of course, perhaps be more mindful of his words and process his emotions more healthily but i cannot with surety say that it would be a significant change, even though i would hope for it. wei wuxian is a GREAT role model, lol. and teenage jiang cheng was not a lost cause just yet.

that said, this hypothetical adult would not handhold jiang cheng through the way he reacted to the collective tragedies that occured pre and post sunshot campaign. if we say that this influence would make jc act differently in major ways (not be irrationally hostile towards the wens, not lead the genocide, not hold onto his grudges vehemently), are we saying this as a merit to the wei wuxianish adult’s ability to change jc so completely or is it a merit to jc for learning and changing himself passively over the course of his relationship with this person? because if it is the latter, i do not think it would happen—because we then do not have jiang cheng’s character and his characteristics in the equation to begin with. it is just another character entirely sculpted by the values of this wei wuxian like person.

this was an interesting question though, and i may have meandered a bit off the lane but i would actually love to hear your thoughts about this as well! and anyone else’s too, whoever stumbles on this post.

[reikamoew]

Levi's regrets in manga 136 - LeviHan's IF

*

This is a manga analysis. Levi and Hange's dynamics in the animation and the manga differ drastically.  

If you believe there is more to their story as well as their individual character development than meet the eye, I highly advise you to ditch the animation for the manga. With all due respect to Mappa, but the final season erases almost every romantic hint between Levi and Hange, along with the twists in their story arcs.

Please brace for a ride. LeviHan in the manga is as complex as it is captivating. The complexity is further muddled with sloppy translations. I will provide the original Japanese versions of key lines where necessary.

*

Previously, before the forest scene, Levi was bent on killing Zeke to avenge his fallen comrades, fulfilling his oath to Erwin.

The first time Zeke escaped, Levi reaffirmed his oath to Erwin on the rooftop, and laid Erwin to rest.

The second time Zeke escaped, Levi was severely injured, and Hange came to his rescue.

Hange held Levi to her chest, jumped into the river and fled to a forest.

*

Let's begin with the forest scene in chapter 126. It is a turning point in Levi's oath arc.

Levi was already awake when Hange attended to his injury. In an intimate moment, he cracked open his good eye to look at her when she wasn't aware.

He was quietly listening to Hange, as he always did.

Hange speculated that Zeke planned to use Eren's Titan power to inflict catastrophe. Later, on the aircraft, Levi told Pieck that killing Zeke might end the Rumbling. The Rumbling did cease briefly after he chopped off Zeke's head.

Hange was also concerned about their fate as the last two veterans of Survey Corps. The only option for survival seemed to be running away and abandoning their duties.

Lastly, and most importantly, unaware that he was listening to her the whole time, she murmured:

"Why not we live here together, Levi?"

In Japanese culture, living together usually suggests romance or a relationship.

Note the white bar right under this panel.

It's a timer bar, indicating the passage of an uncertain, usually long, amount of time.  Given that Hange had rebuilt the broken cart by the time Levi sat up, I'd estimate at least an hour had passed.

The fact that Levi cracked open his good eye and clearly heard Hange's soliloquy — from her speculation about Zeke to her unintended confession — proves that he had been wide awake.

It makes me wonder what Levi was thinking while pretending to be asleep.

One could only speculate.

I believe Levi was most likely imaging — as anyone would after hearing a shocking suggestion — the scenario of abandoning their duties to live together, only to then remember his oath to Erwin.

This internal conflict explains why he remained motionless.

It was the sudden Rumbling sound and Hange's scream that stopped Levi's from continuing to feign sleep.  When their eyes met, he averted his gaze and asked about Zeke's whereabouts.

See how Levi tried to sound angry and eager to kill Zeke as a way to strengthen his determination, only after lying quietly there and allowing himself to be torn about this for such a long time?

Hange uncharacteristically blushed upon realizing that Levi heard her suggestion, which is another clue that "living together" goes beyond friendship.

Levi cheered Hange up, but didn't address her slip of heart. Then, Levi and Hange left the forest, seemingly determined to leave their ambivalent thoughts in the forest.

Killing Zeke, the right choice from the perspective of honor and duty, won this round.

Yet Hange's slip of heart clearly lingered in the back of Levi's mind.

When Levi overheard Hange and Pieck's conversation, which didn't involve him at all, he felt the need to comment on this.

This is extremely unusual and interesting.

When has Levi ever commented on others' love lives in the manga? The only time Levi remotely did so was years ago when Mikasa constantly prioritized Eren over their squad missions. As the squad leader, Levi said something along the line of, "I don't understand your obsession with him, but don't mess up this time."  

(We all know how that obsession began. On hindsight, Levi's confusion foreshadowed his own future romance. Hange took care of Levi the way Eren took care of Mikasa, sparkling Ackerman' romantic attachment of a lifetime. )

Back to Levi's unusual, unnecessary, unsolicited comment.

Note he waited a bit for Pieck to leave to make sure it was a private conversation between him and Hange.

Levi said:

相変わらず巨人とは片想いのままだなクソメガネ

It roughtly translates as:

Your love has been unrequitted only with Titans, four eyes.

There is a Youtube video explaining the Japanese grammar of Levi's line, its hidden romantic connotation, as well as his bold choice of word for "love". The English translation loses all the nuance.  

Besides, Hange's response isn't "I will charm her", but rather "We will become good friends". There is no romantic suggestion in her line regarding Pieck.

Simply put, Levi took the opportunity to express his feelings in an awkward and clumsy way. Unfortunately, Hange failed to pick up on that. I honestly think the look on Levi's face would have helped him be understood. But they stood with their backs to each other.

Fast forward to Levi and Hange's farewell.  

The Survey Corps slogan is 心臓を捧げよ, aka Devote the Heart, without specifying whose heart it is.

It is supposed to mean devoting one's heart — represented by one's fist — to humanity.   

（The gesture is based on human heart's anatomical structure: an individual's heart and fist are of similar size and shape.）

Levi's fist is Levi's heart.

In this iconic scene, Levi altered the Survey Corps' solute gesture to devote his heart to Hange, hence her shocked expression.

Hange, despite on the verge of tears, brushed it off with a laugh, pretending she doesn't understand the gesture. She left him to fulfill her duty as the Commander.

When meeting her fallend comrades in the Path, she heard Erwin say:

"Hange, you've fulfilled your duty."   

(duty , or 役目 in the original Japanese manga. Remember this word)

As for Levi, he had to stay strong as the last veteran to lead the squad.

But you can see cracks through his tough facade. Like, he couldn't bring himself to look at what happened to Hange outside the window. Pieck, arguably one of the most perceptive characters, noticed this.

Or, when he directed kids' attention away, buying himself a moment to let agony take over.

Levi was clearly in the depths of pain and loss, triggered by Hange's death.

He was thinking. At this point we are just not sure what exactly went through his mind.

Levi's thoughts were revealed three chapters later, in chapter 136, in the form of a monologue.

His thoughts, under an intimidating image of Erwin in his mind, revolve around duty (役目).

Yep, the exact same word used in Hange's after-death scene with Erwin in chapter 132. I circled out the word 役目.

Hange and Levi didn't dare to abandon their duties in the forest to live together; Hange eventually died for hers.

Erwin's intimidating face in Levi's mind was a reminder that he needed to fulfill his duty — to kill Zeke. By far Levi appeared compliant, which makes his inner thoughts even more shocking.

Let's examine his first monologue line：

俺達の役目は  あそこで終わりだったのかもしれない

It roughly translates as:

"Our duty .... may have ended there."

There: the moment he swore his oath to Erwin four years ago.

He wanted to dump his oath from the beginning !!!

Because it was this very oath that pushed him and Hange out of the forest, hence the grievance — or even resentment, I would say — towards the oath.

But abandoning the oath is not enough to prevent her death. In Hange's after-death scene, she complained to Erwin that being Commander was too tough.

Levi's next monologue line:

ガキ共をとど/海に届ける そこまでの役目だったとしたら

It roughtly translates as:

"We got those brats to the sea, if that's where our duty ended..."

Why end their duties at the sea？

Because after they reached the sea, Hange's burden as Commander grew increasingly heavy, eventually leading to her death.

Between Hange assuming the position of Commander and the expedition to the sea, things went quite smoothly. It only took a sour turn afterward.

In other words, Levi regretted not ending their duties four or three years earlier. He wanted to keep Hange alive and happy.

He wanted to live an alternative life with her.

Levi's next monologue questioned the inhumane side of Survey Corps' "devote the heart" indoctrination — the very tenet that drove Hange to go on the suicidal mission.

It was also the biggest reason Levi didn't dare to stop her: their fallen comrades were watching.

Remember her last words to Levi?

"You understand, Levi. I have a feeling.... It's my turn."

I will leave the detailed analysis for another day, but let's focus on Levi's regrets for now.

If you look at Levi's monologue in chapter 136 independently, on its own, it's beyond confusing, out of blue and out of place. Why would he suddenly think "our duty may have ended four years ago" in the middle of a deadly war?

The only logical explanation is that he had been ruminating on their duty the whole time.

Now we know what exactly went through Levi's mind.   

Fascinatingly, there are some other clues.

One lies in the name of this chapter -  心臓を捧げよ (Devote the Heart) -  a strong indication of the link between Levi's inner thoughts with his painful farewell to Hange in chapter 132.  

Another glaring clue lies in "duty".

Isayama sensei even used the same Japanese word 役目 for duty in chapter 132 and chapter 136  to imply that Levi's monologue on duty was triggered by Hange's death.

In fact, the image of oath swearing in Levi's mind is reverted to imply the 180-degree shift from commitment to regret.

Before Levi's injury and Levihan's forest scene: commitement

After Hange's death: regret

The table has turned.

Right after Levi broke free the shackles of his oath, Zeke appeared. Levi killed him with one swift swing of sword. No torture for revenge this time, unlike before.

The Rumbling stopped. As Connie supported an injured Levi,  he said: " It's not that I don't have regrets. But ... we stopped the Rumbling, it's the right thing to do, right?”

Connie doesn't have a story arc of regret or lack thereof.

It's more likely him voicing Levi's hidden regrets and Levi's changed intent in killing Zeke — not for revenge, but to stop the Rumbling.

It explains Levi's expression as he slightly looked up, staring into the void, clearly consumed by his inner turmoil with something or someone in his mind.

Levi wanted to end their missions years earlier for an alternative life with Hange. It's an IF scenario.

In essence, IF is to go back in time, making different choices.

In case there's any confusion about his regrets, he made it clear in his monologue that he doesn't regret letting Erwin go.

Well, Levi's syringe choice is another puzzle with a twist, no less stunning than the twist in his oath arc. I'd say it's a love letter from Levi to the woman with sparkling eyes, an innocent dream and a selfless spirit.

But the analysis may cause some controversy and wrath from certain fandoms, so please let me savor it for myself for now.  

*

LeviHan is a fascinating, heart-breaking and complete arc. Hange's part is comparatively clear, while Levi's part is more in the dark, requiring quite some efforts to piece together the whole puzzle.

I will probably write about the heart arc, later.   

In the final chapter 139,  Levi's last panel focuses on his scar.

The pain and regrets will never really go away, because of the "what ifs" — of what could have been with her.

[vivmaek]

Hi! I hope you’re doing good! Do all aspects and placements in someone’s chart make up their appearance? I’ve heard that it does, and I’ve heard that it doesn’t. Just curious to know :)

THE NATAL CHARTS RELATION TO PHYSICAL APPEARANCE

Hi, I love this question! I can see arguments for both sides, but in my opinion I think all placements within someones chart make up appearance. I say this because our emotions and inner psychology directly affect physical appearance. And the same can be said for our physical environments. Here are some examples:

Gemini Saturn in the 12th House - Prone to getting bags under the eyes due to poor sleep. Struggles with anxiety and poor appetite.

Venus in the 2nd House - Having the resources to maintain ones appearance. Having access to high quality food, clothing, makeup, and skincare.

Neptune in the 8th House - Prone to drug usage, and is especially susceptible to the negative side effects. These types look spaced out and detached even if they have never used substances. They've probably been asked, "Are you high?" even if dead sober.

12th house stellium - Looks mysterious, even when you get to know them. No one ever truly knows a 12th house stellium. My life long friend constantly reveals details about her life that change the way I view her. And I never really know what she is up to, even when we were in each others daily lives. She travels more than any young person I know, yet remains humble and wise. 12th house stelliums are the ultimate mystiques, and this is an incredibly attractive quality.

1st House stellium - Their distinct personality overpowers whatever their physical appearance may be. Usually people attach traits onto others based on their physical appearance, but the reverse happens for 1st house stelliums. It is almost like they're cartoon characters, its like their personality and sense of character was developed before their physical form even came into existence. Their physical appearance suits who they are so well, I don't know how else to describe it.

Pluto in the 6th house - There are periods in which people with this placement will be overworked.

Scorpio Uranus in the 12th House - The wild card. Their subconscious state shifts drastically and changes unexpectedly, and this most definitely affects the ways in which they present themselves to the world.

Scorpio Mars in the 5th House - People with this placement are baddies. Cool af and might partake in some dangerous hobbies.

Chart ruler in the 4th House - Nostalgia frames the ways in which these people present themselves. Might have a timeless look about them.

Virgo Mercury in the 8th House - Could partake in hygienic practices that are diligent and maybe strange.

Cancer Saturn in the 5th House - Handyman vibes. Down to earth in their self expression.

Sun in the 3rd House - Seemingly youthful, the eternal student.

Strong 11th House placements - Their appearance is somehow associated with whatever group they belong to. This could be church, clubs, sports teams, humanitarian efforts. (For instance, Tom Cruise has his Jupiter in the 11th house and you can't look at him without thinking about Scientology.)

Strong 7th House placements - Tend to take on traits adapted from their relationships. They mirror people.

Uranus in the 9th House - Might end up living amongst a culture that differs from the one they grew up in. This will affect the ways in which people perceive their appearance.

Saturn Square Pluto - 😐 <- this face

Mercury Trine Pluto - 🤨 <- this face

Mars aspecting Uranus - Prone to accidents, bodily injury, scars.

[rei-ismyname]

Uncanny X-Men #8 review - Raid on Graymalkin finale

Raid on Graymalkin has been a strange event in a lot of ways. It happened very early after an editorial and creative team change, it's only four issues spread over 2 books, and perhaps most of all, editorial both spoiled the ending and hyped up an ideological divide between Rogue and Cyclops. The big question is 'was the hype paid off?' Sadly, no - Uncanny #8 doesn't so much land the plane as crash it into a mountain. A plane crash can be a spectacle though, let's break it down. At the very least it looks great. This is a long one, so strap in.

We get to know Scurvy a little better.

X-Men #9 ended with both teams in Scurvy/ Philip's psychic thrall and Charles Xavier taking the stage after Kurt and Kwannon freed him. Uncanny #8 opens with his POV of his recent history, showing a 'Not All Mutants' mutant and how he ended up in an abusive relationship with a right wing podcast host. Well, it shows how they met, how his powers work, and how Warden Ellis has used him.

His powers aging him drastically explains why he's reluctant to go all out and perhaps how his powers helped an Infowars knock off to get this job. YMMV on whether this makes him sympathetic; it's certainly a 180 from the plain pathetic he has been portrayed as thus far. We spend a lot of time with him this issue, but it's all so vague I don't feel like we actually know all that much about him. He is portrayed as a victim, though he's also in the process of frying our heroes' brains and enslaving people. On the other hand, we get so little of his motivations and feelings that there's not much there. Villains/antagonists need to be developed to be interesting, and I'm not sure if Scurvy is a victim of Ellis' crusade or a self hating mutant who gave 'everything to a dream' for ... reasons. He's literally killing himself and it'd be good to know why.

Scurvy has been hyped as a Psychic on par with Xavier, something Xavier himself hasn't exactly confirmed but he has admitted Scurvy is an obstacle. They haven't met but Scurvy's been aware of Xavier, presumably because he's world famous and announced Krakoa to everyone on the planet. Scurvy suggests it's more than that - he and Charles are part of a group of five mutants called Avians, one of whom died - Harvey X. Chuck has had an oversized presence in Simone's Uncanny X-Men and another vague mystery about him takes up space that could be used to develop other characters - The Outliers, Jubilee, Nightcrawler. This 'Avian' business feels like The Twelve and other similar half baked plots, and how can Charles have a tumour if he's in a relatively new body? He died last in Inferno AFAIK, but more than that it feels unnecessary. I'm not invested in believing or disbelieving it, though Chuck dying might make X-Manhunt more interesting.

Chuck isn't showing up again until March, and Scurvy ages 10 years during this issue. Why are we spending all this time on these people that aren't main characters? Does Xavier really need to be part of some special unexplained group? He's been a very special and prominent part of the X-Men since 1963 - new old girlfriends and vague hints of specialness feel like mystery box overkill. Maybe Scurvy is lying as part of their psychic battle. Laws of narrative economy suggest otherwise, but either way - what's the point? Also, Avians? Are they birds? Maybe it's a Shi'Ar thing but right now it sounds ridiculous. Avians 🙄

Juggernaut knocks Rogue out of Scurvy's control and she thinks she has time to do the same to one other person. She apologises to Gambit for not choosing him and picks Cyke as the tactical choice, nearly knocking his head off. He snaps out of it too and shit gets bizarre.

For some reason Scott chooses this moment to berate Rogue for 'bringing kids into a war zone' which is a super valid point but I find it difficult to believe he'd bring it up while they're on the back foot and threats are everywhere. Rogue's answer is even more puzzling. I can believe she'd make an appeal to emotion but it's not a real answer. 'At least we don't have Magneto on our team' is not a rebuttal to nearly getting children killed, but it also does not make sense.

Magneto has been reformed for YEARS at this point and was a driving force behind Krakoa. She's saying like he's some irredeemable villain when he's the most heroic he's ever been. He and Rogue had zero interaction on Krakoa, where he was considered a national hero and famously was very tight with her hero Xavier. If she has an issue with the sins that came to light after Inferno, then she wouldn't be so charitable to Chuck, either. Maybe it's Scurvy's influence, but if so then what's the point? This isn't ideology, it's dodging the question at worst or petty bickering at best. Has Rogue forgotten her extensive history with Magneto, or her own start as a villain? What about her husband's involvement in the Mutant Massacre or her parents' unrepentant villainy? When considered in the context of Simone saying that Rogue and Cyclops would occupy the Xavier/Magneto relationship it looks like a missed shot. You'd have to ignore decades of history to make it work. Sigh, this was an unforced error and it really bums me out.

'I'm never going to be you and you're never going to be Professor X' is flat out weird. Cyclops answer of 'good' is consistent with his argument last issue, but it makes it look like they're not having the same conversation. Finally they realise they're in a war zone and only now does Rogue defer to Cyclops. Oookayyy. They say 'Magik and Wolverine' together in a moment that's both cheesy as hell and should underline their commonalities. I'm almost feel bad ragging on this, but it's not executed well. At least Rogue is consistently characterised as a cowboy. That's something.

Magik and Wolverine start freeing people then stop to agree not to kill each other. Deathdream says weird stuff, as usual, and the two make up. Jitter has her second instance of love heart emoji'ing a woman, which is cute but still deniable as actual WLW representation. I hope Simone cashes this cheque.

Queerness should be something that's not notable in a perfect world, just a part of the character. We don't live in a perfect world though, and we don't know a lot about Jitter. We know her powers, that she's Malay Singaporean, that she has a stutter, and that she possibly likes women. It's not enough for issue #8 of the flagship series. The choice was made to heavily focus on Xavier and Sarah Gaunt, and a casualty of that was getting to know main characters. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the payoff was worth it, but what did we actually learn? Instead of giving readers a break from Charles Xavier, he's been a regular presence. His appearance in this event could have been more impactful but I feel like we never had a chance to miss him.

Kwannon and Kurt reveal that Scurvy made them fight, which Rogue is aware of, and she adds that 'we're broken.' I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but this undermines the stakes of the ideological conflict. Is it manufactured or isn't it? None of them consider attacking Scurvy while he's fighting Xavier, either. Nobody is acting like they're in danger. It feels unserious, like the characters are just waiting for things to happen to them.

At this point I don't really care who Inmate X is. Uncanny X-Men has been dropping these mystery boxes that readers can only guess at, and like with Harvey X being the one pulling strings, it comes out of nowhere. It's another Avian, which means nothing to us beyond a vague implication of specialness. We know that Ellis considers it a bad thing if he get out of his cell, but that doesn't narrow it down aside from it being a he.

Aw, cripes - popular gen Z saying

Interestingly, Xavier's astral form is that of his Cerebro-helmeted onesie twink. It could reveal that he hasn't changed at all in how he sees himself and his role as shepherd of mutantkind. It's very different from his classic astral battle appearance, and I love it thematically and visually. Scurvy and Chuck as astral giants towering over the schoolprison is striking, though the casualness of their dialogue mutes it somewhat.

Not sure how Ezra or Ellis can tell Scurvy is losing a battle on the astral plane, but she does what she should have done before this and gets a gun. Calico is overjoyed that the Outliers (except Jitter) came for her, but what could be a heartwarming moment is undercut by their dulled expressions. I can buy Deathdream doing this, but Ransom has been emotionally aware prior to this. We have zero details, but aren't these kids tight after months of being on the run together?

It's finally time to stop standing around, as Ellis and guards are here with guns. The X-Men, having already beat up plenty of these dudes, aren't impressed. They stand together (no idea where Chuck and Scurvy got to) and Cyke urges her to stand down, pointing out that they're not as nice as the Avengers. Rogue agrees in the shittiest way possible, thinking 'sometimes visor boy says jus the right thing.' Weird ableist stance from Rogue, but all it does is highlight how shallow their conflict is and remind us that Gail Simone doesn't like Cyclops.

Ellis doesn't blink, telling them her 'brother died because of trash like you.' We knew this already, and I'm wondering if there's anything else to her. She's established as a threat but she's not especially interesting. She helped with Sarah Gaunt out of empathy (?) but here she is flinging the same old slurs. I'm not sure if her dark skin is meant to be noteworthy or say anything. So far it hasn't been a part of her character in any way other than visual, no commentary on how someone who has experienced minority oppression becomes so hell-bent on dealing it out herself. How does a person become willing to enslave and torture, and even (as we'll see) destroy two towns with thousands of humans in them? Her brother died, sure, but that's thin characterisation for a multi-arc villain.

Chuck wallops Scurvy with an uppercut!

Ellis brings out The Trustees again (who the X-Men easily defeated) to have Blob recite 'the pledge.' Very messed up but it shouldn't exactly convince the X-Men to do anything other than smash this place to pieces. She threatens to let Sarah Gaunt loose from her comically large chains that shouldn't stop her for a second.

Cyclops points out that with Scurvy's defeat Ellis' big gun is down. She laughs at that, and for some reason Chuck doesn't immediately take over her brain. Her big gun is more literal - a fucking network of sonic cannon satellites. Who TF gave this lady a Death Star? She has Merle and Haven targeted but Rogue thinks she's bluffing. Logically, you'd think so. Would the US government really accept this maniac destroying towns with a space laser? Not sure how they'd spin that. Also, neither team have any leverage to stop her using it whenever she wants. I feel like she's forcing them to kill her right here and now, lest their strategic position becomes 'able to be killed at any time without effort.' They could even just send her on permanent vacation to Limbo, see how her bullshit flies with Maddie Pryor.

Ellis lets them take the people they came for (why?) but that's not enough for Rogue. Siryn speaks to Rogue personally while crying, indicating she's herself, as much as she can be with all the torture, mind control, and who knows what else? It's only when Xavier intercedes that Rogue listens.

Charles explains why he needs to be in prison (though we know he'll change his mind and escape in March) and they have an emotional exchange. It works, I guess, but Rogue looks super selfish and ignorant. Free Charles for personal reasons when he doesn't want it at the cost of two towns? Doesn't seem like much of a choice (other than knocking Ellis out while she's in your face.) It feels a bit regressive for Rogue, too. She is aware of everything from Fall of X (including Chuck manipulating one of her mothers and trying to permanently kill the other) and hadn't really had or needed a mentor in a long time. Sure, everyone is lost after Krakoa, but WTF is she so attached to Xavier? It's great that he was the first to believe in her but this feels almost infantilising. Rogue is better than this.

Scott has Magik open a big portal before 'she' can stop you. I assume 'she' refers to Rogue, except Rogue is shown willingly walking through it with everyone else. Ellis wasn't interested in stopping them. It's like everyone has the script and realises the event is over so it's time to go. I have difficulty believing any of these characters would just meekly leave, not because of Xavier, but the multiple sonic space cannons that can kill them anytime plus their enslaved comrades. There's eight regular ass humans with guns in the way and this is their shot to do anything about it. How many of these X-Men could take them all out by themselves? Cyke could optic blast them unconscious, Magik has multiple methods, and many of the others could just punch them while ignoring bullets.

Yo, where's Quentin? He arrived with you guys.

Once Rogue has walked through the portal (clearly willingly and without duress) she objects again - 'no. We can't leave him there!' Cyke echoes Charles' own words and promises to get the others out, but Rogue punches him maybe ten feet and not only repudiates Scott's promises (?) but places the blame entirely on him. He blasts her and tells her to grow up (kinda fair) but then their teammates hold them back. Beast tells Scott he won, but this looks like a narrative trick to pretend Cyclops wanted to fight or has any reason to.

Rogue turns to leave with mild venom and her team follows. Hank assures Scott that he had no choice and Scott disagrees but doesn't elaborate. I hate to see X-Men fight but it's even worse when it's over nothing. The post-portal events feel like Simone going 'hmm, didn't really sell that ideological divide or their falling out, fuck it, just have Rogue punch Cyclops.' I think Cyclops was mostly right here, but it's more than Rogue was wrong and the conflict was contrived. I just don't buy the degree of animosity Rogue has and all the reasons given feel out of character. If that's who Rogue is right now I can accept it, but it's not very heroic and she's had multiple egregious failures of leadership. If this is identified as a character flaw that needs working on or a mistake that she regrets it could make for interesting storytelling, but all the information we have suggests that's not the case. Uncanny is frankly a trainwreck, but at least it looks fantastic. The letters page and other media suggests a lot of people are enjoying this book, and I couldn't be happier for them. I just wish I was too. I'll keep reviewing it of course, and I'll be less harsh than this review was. It was hyped and it called shots and didn't deliver. Doing that sets expectations and gives me another metric to judge it by. Hopefully we can get on with learning about the characters who've been neglected.

As for Raid on Graymalkin as an event, it had its ups and downs. Most of the ups were in X-Men and most of the downs were in Uncanny. Ultimately it didn't fulfill the promise it made so I judge it as a failure. We didn't learn a great deal and it boiled down to a cynical excuse for X-Men to punch each other. The mysteries it introduced feel dull to me and I am not especially interested in the Avians or Inmate X. The solicits for X-Manhunt spoiled that Xavier wasn't going anywhere, which left us with forced conflict. I'm far more interested in the aftermath of the event, especially the Alaska team dealing with a visit from the O*N*E. They don't really need much reason to fuck with the X-Men so I'm not crediting the event with that.

Thanks for reading!

[project-sekai-facts]

any predictions for vbs wl2 before it comes out?

Okay so I'm not sure if the another cuts have anything to do with the divergence points but I'm gonna assume they don't and they just picked the coolest looking 3DMVs for each member (I mean I do think ultra c is cooler than Realize but I understand not using it bc it's more vbs a whole than Kohane centric). Like what the hell do you do with Rekindle? Akito has burnout and does nothing about it and stagnates? That's boring and pretty ooc.

I've said before but I do think An or Kohane will be related to their meeting in main story. Probably Kohane since I think An might end up with something related to Nagi. It's the most obvious divergence point imo, though it could be a little bit boring because otherwise Kohane's life continues being boring and obviously she'd want to keep reality. Like there's no conflict. Idk maybe she got invested in something else. If not maybe you could move it a little further into VBS' story, maybe something to do with Taiga mentoring her so it's like tangentially related to the Nagi stuff I assume will be in An's chapter. I don't want to go with Kohane gives up but all I can think of comes back to that. Kinda hope I'm wrong.

Nagi being important to An's chapter is like the most obvious thing in the world and £5 says she's on the card or at least referenced on it. Not necessarily what if Nagi didn't die but I do think Nagi will be important somehow. Unlike what I said about Fuel/Rekindle I do think Machi/VoT could be important here. The flashbacks in that event were important for An and her relationship with Nagi and Vivid Street so maybe diverge somewhere there? I'm not saying Nagi lives is out if the question though like from a writing perspective it is the most logical for conflict: it gives An an ideal scenario but one that would drastically alter what she has in the present. Good conflict.

Akito is the one I'm struggling with most. Because like with Kohane the most obvious points to diverge from all involve him quitting, and then there's also Akito continues playing football, which just isn't exactly interesting. Akito quitting is really ooc, I just don't see where that could go. And if we do go with the idea that the another cut is the divergence point event, then where the fuck do you go with Rekindle. Unless the sekai just chooses to make Akito really angry at himself I can't think of anything. Idk maybe get rid of Toya and nothing else really changes except for the fact It's Not Toya.

Toya's is probably going to be something to do with his relationship with classical music. He didn't run away, or he didn't come to terms with his past, something like that. I'm kinda annoyed that we're getting this in a post-Toya5 Harumichi rewrite world but whatever I can't stay salty forever. I mean maybe it'll be something else but it by far makes the most sense, and has plenty of interesting conflict that could come with it. Also if we assume all WL2 chapters are in the same rewritten world then this goes hand in hand with my joke theory about Akito chapter. He's Toyaless now.

Alternatively we do just go with the "what if they all gave up at X point" so then we can reflect on why their real selves didn't give up and overcame their struggles and pain and used that to move forward. Turning Pain Into Drive or something. I still think this is kinda boring but it goes with the previous WL stories being functionally the project sekai equivalent of a clip show episode (ie. It talked a lot about character development just in case you hadn't been reading the other stories but at least there was like. Actual plot even if it was kinda basic)

Machi another cut is going to ruin lives.

[pommedepersephone]

Buck up, Hamlet! or how Aziraphale and Crowley's blocking helps communicate the evolution of their relationship

Can we talk about the blocking?

Specifically, I have been rewatching S1E3, one of my favorites. I love how the development of the relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley is shown through these little vignettes. There have been some great explorations of the costuming and dialogue, but what always strikes me is the BLOCKING. The way their placement and movements add such depth and tell the story of living as a queer person, having to communicate in coded language.

Through the episode, we get 4500 years of history - Eden, Mesopotamia, Golgatha, Rome and Wessex - to see Aziraphale and Crowley standing on their opposite sides. Aziraphale always on the right, Crowley always on the left. But after the Arrangement, their blocking changes drastically and becomes much more fluid and nuanced. Each scene after this is distinct but the scenes in at the Globe and the Bastille have the most development, and I find myself rewatching them A LOT. Here is what I see. 

All the World's a Stage

This is the first meeting we see that isn’t a chance encounter, though the two try to stage it as such. It takes place in a theatre - and they are acting, playing their roles as demon and angel. Even the humans are complicit in this performance, with Shakespeare stepping in to address the two "in your roles as the audience." Oh, delicious.

But once it's been firmly established for anyone watching that they AREN'T friends, they DON'T know each other (cough cough) the following moves are clearly choreographed and have been played out many times before. Crowley sashays to the right, opening the dance, and Aziraphale accepts the invitation to dance with: “What do you want?” 

“Why ever would you insinuate that I might possibly want something?” Crowley is just playing his role as cheeky demon offering up a temptation - but his position to the right of Aziraphale speaks to the fact that they are both very complicit in this performance.

“You are up to no good.”  “Obviously. And you are up to good, I take it? Lots of good deeds?” Just standard character establishment, here.

“No rest for the, well, good." Ah, this line, the inversion of the well known idiom. Because the line between good and evil (and between angel and demon) maybe aren't so distinct, and Aziraphale acknowledges this with his words. We are moving into negotiations now. "I have to be in Edinburgh at the end of the week. A couple of blessings to do, and a minor miracle to perform. Apparently, I have to ride a horse.”

“Ah hard on the buttocks, horses. Major design flaw, if you ask me. I’m meant to be headed to Edinburgh too this week. Tempting a clan leader to steal some cattle.” The way Crowley moves AROUND Aziraphale here, intimate but also careful, watching for his reactions.

“Doesn’t sound like hard work.” Said with a little sideways look, because Aziraphale can see where this is going. And he's open to suggestion temptation.

“That was why I thought we should… well, bit of a waste of effort. Both of us going all the way to Scotland.”

“You cannot actually be suggesting what I infer you are implying?” A little bit of pretense, because Aziraphale has to pretend to be tempted, right?

Crowley presses. “Which is?” Because he is willing to play the part of tempting demon, but only if it is clear this is a farce, that this is indeed mutually agreeable. He is making sure they are doing the same dance.

"That one of us goes to Edinburgh and does... both. The blessing and the tempting."

Yes, they are doing the same dance, and what is left is the formality of concluding the dance - a moment of Aziraphale expressing his concern for Crowley, the coin toss - they both know how it ends. It's a ritual, an act of give and take.

But if it were ONLY the Arrangement, a simple quid pro quo, it would have ended there. It doesn't. Instead, the two offer each other a more intimate exchange - "It'd take a miracle to get people to come and see Hamlet."

Aziraphale doesn't even have to ask with words, just a look, and Crowley happily agrees. That is the final part of the dance, a small acknowledgement that this isn't just about making their jobs easier.

A Free Man in Paris

Paris is something else. This is a HUGE step beyond making sure that audiences like a show your angel is particularly fond of. This is a stolen dangerous moment, an OUTRAGEOUS flirtation that takes place outside of time, conducted in clear view of others but beyond their understanding. Isn’t that how their entire relationship is now conducted, hidden in plain view and so clearly affectionate? 

And look, Aziraphale is BITCHY in this scene. Peak That Bitch. He's just purchased a bookshop, he's creating a very permanent place for himself here on earth - Aziraphale is feeling quite proud of himself. In fact, he's preening a bit that he has figured out how to exist, even in some small limited way, as himself within the confines of the system of Heaven. Buuuut he may have gone just a bit too far, and gotten himself in a spot of trouble. He has landed in a prison, threatened with "death" and stuck because he's already gotten a warning about being frivolous with his miracles. Oh jolly good that Crowley is here to save the day!

There is something raw being communicated here here, where both Aziraphale and Crowley are presenting themselves to the world in ways that are dangerous. Aziraphale's reaction tells us that Crowley's look is doing things to him, but also in a way that it is NOT socially appropriate. Aziraphale may have showed up in all the trappings of an English aristocrat, but here is Crowley as a French royal sympathizer. NEITHER of these are safe choices in the middle of a revolution. The costuming is so critical to fully appreciating this scene, so check out the amazing clothing overview with @cobragardens.

When Crowley arrives and stops time, he and Aziraphale find themselves situated facing one another, but angled so they aren’t facing straight on. Interestingly, from Crowley’s perspective, he is where he is supposed to be - the left of Aziraphale. But Aziraphale, from his perspective, is also to the left of Crowley. It was Aziraphale after all who initiated this situation, who put himself in danger by being too… Aziraphale. It’s dangerous to be yourself when you don’t fit into heteronormative social expectations, isn’t it? Still, the two keep up a very flirtatious banter as they discuss the situation, and Crowley maintains his very-intentionally-unbothered sitting position up until Aziraphale goes too far and thanks him for coming to his rescue.

While Crowley is also flirting with danger in the way he is dressed, he also didn't just pop over for a nibble dressed this way. And whatever he might have been up to was interrupted so he could rescue Aziraphale from the consequences of his own reckless authenticity. After removing the chains, Crowley pushes Aziraphale to reconsider his honest expression of himself in this exact place and time - for the sake of survival.

Aziraphale, willing to risk himself alone, rather quickly adopts a more acceptable appearance when it might impact Crowley. It is only after Aziraphale is safely disguised and returned to his proper place to the right of Crowley, ONLY then does Crowley restart time. They can go enjoy lunch now, with the proper precautions and masks in place.

For these two particular human-coded occult beings, this is also such an honest moment. They both showed up damn authentically - Aziraphale so fabulously ostentatious, focused on chasing down some pleasure (in this crepes) and Crowley wrapped in a clear protest against the current violence. Just as Aziraphale indicated with his "Oh good LORD" as he looked the demon up and down with obvious thirst, Crowley's request to Aziraphale to change his appearance and mask better is done in such a way that affirms that Crowley LIKES who Aziraphale is without the mask.

The scene is so playful on the surface, the body language and dialogue flirtatious. It's something so familiar to the queer experience, making light of the absolute danger that we must sometimes navigate just to exist. The more I watch it, the more obsessed I become.

A Spot of Bodysnatchin'

It is worth remembering that we didn't get this scene in S1.

I am going to go through it soon, because again they dance back and forth beautifully in this minisode, but suffice to say we all know... it didn't end well for Crowley.

No Walk in the Park

The moment in St. James Park is brief, and it wasn't until S2 and the meeting at Edinburgh that we got the full context for this meeting. But even without this, we can clearly see that things are weighing heavily on Crowley. The scene in the Bastille took place in a prison, with the threat of execution over their heads. The juxtaposition of this conversation taking place in a park - a place that is not only NOT inherently dangerous but looks lovely and welcoming - only highlights the change in Crowley's attitude. He still attempts to be playful, but he's afraid. Look at that paper, it's a bit crumpled, he's been carrying it around for a while.

They are firmly entrenched on their assigned sides for the entire conversation, both very stiff. It feels uncomfortable to watch. When Aziraphale refuses his request, and indicates whatever is between them is just "fraternizing" with the enemy, we get a glimpse of how fearful Crowley really is. In none of these flashbacks has Crowley ever spoken to Aziraphale with the anger we see here. When they part in anger, it feels wrong.

Take Me to Church

So there is a long break between meetings now. But then, ah, the church. The place Aziraphale realizes his feelings. (Look, if Michael says this is where Aziraphale realized he'd fallen in love, I am not here to argue.) What I love is that again we see Crowley and Aziraphale swapping sides. Crowley is here to save his wayward angel, AGAIN. Despite feeling the ill effects of walking on consecrated ground, Crowley is here to save his angel and defeat Nazis. It's definitely not remotely evil intentions.

It isn't like the Bastille, but some of the parallels exist - Aziraphale failing to grasp the risks of his actions. And the silliness of his little dance coupled with just how deadly serious this situation is harks back to their flirtations in the prison.

Crowley is to the right of Aziraphale from the time he arrives until the bomb drops. Then in the rubble, with the danger past, we see them on their assigned sides again. UNTIL Crowley hands Aziraphale the books he saved with a "little demonic miracle of my own." He then crosses Aziraphale, and we see the look of absolute adoration as the angel watches him walk away to the right.

Sweeeeeet baby Jesus, baby girl has it BAD.

Always Crashing in the Same Car

This extremely heartbreaking scene has been dissected, chewed over, breaking our little hearts with it's sharp pieces.

But it is purposeful that this scene took place in the Bentley. Being in the car is symbolic because Aziraphale is here making an offering to Crowley, in his space, something that he Aziraphale feels is WRONG which is highlighted by his placement to the left of Crowley. He is scared, acting against all his own desires, but he does it anyway because he cares for Crowley. It's simple, powerful placement. Need to hurt more? Yeah, thought so. Take a deeper look at the dialogue with @zionworkzs.

[cripplecharacters]

Hello, I'm writing a character that is autistic. I'm autistic and white (afab) and my character is black (amab), can I use my own experience with autism as a "draftc for his character? If not, what can I do to make the writing feel correct/original?

(sry if I made any grammar mistakes, I'm not a native speaker)

Hi asker,

Ultimately, autism is both race- and sex- and gender- neutral. Symptoms and traits are not going to vary drastically because of any of the above things.

So yes, you can use your own experience as a basis for your character. What you'd need to pay more attention to is the responses of other people to your character and the culture that they're being raised in.

For example, black disabled people are treated especially heinously by law enforcement, so if you were going to include anything about that, a little black kid might be taught as much as possible by his family to be careful around cops and develop a script and to not stim around them. Masking and not stimming in a case like this isn't a case of hiding your true self, it's about protecting your life and safety. And yet, this doesn't actually have anything to do with this character's autism being any different than a little white boy his age. Just that it is treated differently.

And, like any character of color, the only way to make them isn't just to make them live the same life culturally than a white person and then change the color of their skin. Researching about their culture and including bits of that in their life is important – things like food, values, hairstyles, cultural events, holidays, and such.

I want to add that the assigned genders of your characters don't matter as much as you think they might. I know it's common to refer to 'female/girl autism' on the internet as its own separate beast, but there isn't really a material difference in symptoms and traits. Some traits will be seen differently socially by others, like with race, and people might be treated differently depending on their sex about how they behave, but the behaviors themselves are not divided nicely on a gender line or anything like that. That misconception, really, is just born from misogyny, sexism, and societal expectations, not from autism itself being different.

Hope this helps,

mod sparrow

Hello,

mod Sparrow covered the actual question, so I'll mention the AGAB part.

There is no sexual dimorphism related to hormones, genitals, or chromosomes in autism. The severity of a person's symptoms or how they experience them is unrelated to any kind of sex characteristic, nor to a past decision made on the basis of at-the-time appearance of the person's external genitals, which is what AGAB is.

The "girl/boy autism" is a sexist dichotomy that is completely made up and presents girls as inherently less disabled by their autism. It erases the severely disabled girls and women who do have autism and shows "girl autism" as more manageable and pro-social than "boy autism" which is impossible to control and anti-social. That's nonsense and the same kind of erasure of women as in every other minority.

The only real difference that is based on gender is how it's socially treated by others, just like mod Sparrow mentioned. Men's autistic symptoms are generally considered more acceptable than they would be if they belonged to a woman, even if the symptom is exactly the same. If a man shows autistic tendencies, he can be considered "intriguing and unique", but if a woman did the same, she would be "off-putting and weird".

This, however, obviously isn't based on what the person's AGAB was. A transgender woman's autistic behavior won't be seen the same way a cisgender man's behavior would be. It will in fact put her under more scrutiny than a cis woman would be under, not less. AGAB is a past event that serves no function in this question, nor in most contexts. AGAB doesn't answer for gender, presentation, chromosomes, hormone dominance, organs, functionality of these organs, or anything else other than what someone arbitrarily said about a newborn. Categorizing people based on what gender they were assigned at birth - rather than any present characteristic - is bioessentialism.

I know this is not an answer to the ask, but please question what a past evaluation of the character's genitals would inform here that their actual gender wouldn't.

mod Sasza

[marbofmoorock]

There's this poster in the background throughout episode 4. It's easily Ragatha, and likely drawn by Gangle, since she's the only person drawing in the show, Caine put aside. Yet why is it there? What is it for? What does it mean?

I have a theory that this drawing is a reflection of Gangle's way of seeing Ragatha. It would be a symbol of her trust and admiration towards her, before she calls her annoying and mocks her by saying she'd be a better boss than her.

Gangle likely sees Ragatha in a very positive light, even though the Stupid-Sauced version of her clearly surprised Gangle, or at least had her questioning Ragatha's ability to be genuine in her actions(That being said, she clearly saw something off with Ragatha, as She seems to agree with Zooble that Ragatha is as high as a kite).

Ragatha's unfiltered words likely hurt Gangle, as she was likely trusting of Ragatha enough to let her guard down and not expect any insults or verbal attacks(unlike Jax where she always expects him to be a jerk). Gangle was at least trusting on an emotional level of Ragatha, through appreciating her kind actions towards her. But Gangle is clearly shaken by her choice of words, reflected in her brief conversation with Pomni, and seconds after Ragatha calls her "annoying" which contrasts drastically with the poster's messages. Gangle likely saw Ragatha as pretty strong hearted and quietly respected her standing up to Jax, something she has trouble with up until episode 4. Whether it's a confirmation of perhaps past events where Ragatha may not have been so nice, or if this is brand new development for Ragatha from Gangle's perspective, it's clear that Ragatha unveiled a side to her that contrasts with Gangle's image of Ragatha(assuming the poster is Gangle's depiction of Ragatha).

In the poster, despite the words towards the bottom being rather smudged to likely most viewers(even when you zoom in(this is likely done on purpose by the tadc animators)), the top letters clearly says "Wow" and "So Cool" as this picture of Ragatha depicts her holding what might actually be Jax's decapitated head. This is kinda morbid, but would be interestingly enough on par with the original theme of the circus adventure, "The Curse of the Violent Psychopath Butcher." Since the episode is about Gangle, and this art suggesting something darker was supposed to go down, it's likely one of the characters was supposed to be exposed for perhaps killing/slicing up/maybe eating others. Perhaps this was supposed to be an expose of Gangle similar to how Middenhall Manner was a reflection of Kinger's mistakes. Perhaps Gangle was a yandere psycho type, and she literally "wore masks" to hide her true intentions, and "cut up people to ribbons," for some reason(boys, madness, breakup, etc.) hence why she likely has her body design in the circus. It could also be the character who was supposed to be the Butcher, leftover from Caine Accommodating Pomni's wish for no horror. (Edit: This is likely what Spudsy was rebranded from being, as he was serving human meat in burgers at his place now turned into a restaurant, only a psycho would be a cannibal willingly).

Comparing this to Gangle's other art, it's not quite the same as her drawing of her with Zooble and Pomni. That could be dismissed as a potential drawing due to its rougher art style. Likely, it could be drawn by another person, maybe Ragatha herself, as she doesn't like Jax, and maybe has a quiet fantasy of cutting Jax's head off as a way to blow off steam. It's got a design that suggests someone who wasn't maybe an experienced artist drew it for fun. This would make sense for Ragatha to most viewers, since we don't see Ragatha drawing in any of the episodes, which could mean she might be good at drawing, but isn't as good at it as Gangle or Caine is(despite having not seen the painting in question drawn by Ragatha nor any drawing by Ragatha, at least yet)

It could also be a hint in plain sight at episode 5, perhaps. It's not too crazy to believe that someone could separate their head from their body, live, and then eventually get healed in the circus later(This is because they can't die in the circus, Goose made that very clear in her Q&A taking massive inspiration from "I have No Mouth and I must Scream" where Iam, the supercomputer that tortures 5 humans endlesssly by making them immortal, and incapable of ending the suffering, but the circus is not quite as sadistic as that thankfully). Perhaps this hints at Ragatha maybe using Jax's head as a baseball, or maybe holding up his head in a way that signifies she won a fight against him, a potential power fantasy that the art could be depicting. However, Ragatha doesn't seem super violent and doesn't like being hurt by knives or spikes(like in ep. 2) or hurting others, so perhaps it is Gangle's art, after all. It may be an older drawing that reflects something she drew in the real world or an earlier drawing before she practiced enough to get a drawing style down, which was clear and evident with her picture of her with Pomni and Zooble. That picture looks very polished for a simple sketch, so it's clear Gangle was very serious about honing her drawing abilities to one day make a webcomic, and drawing in a style that strongly represents her inspirations of manga, but isn't manga itself, taking a more western styled design mixed with anime elements.

Another side theory is maybe Gangle convinced herself to stop being a manga artist because the poster represents what was perhaps her drawing style before she developed it overtime.

Perhaps drawing was Gangle's subtle way of staying sane in the circus, despite how she's constantly bullied in every episode before episode 4). Some artists deal with stress by drawing, so this would check out. I think I recall Goose saying in her Q&A she was known to do that, drawing to let off steam.

Regardless of what the poster stands for, it remains a mystery for now.

[storm-driver]

hi, i have feelings about cartoon nostalgia and the audience perception of them 20 years on

this is gonna read hyper-specific, but bear with me

i refuse to credit butch hartman for the way danny phantom came out during it's first two seasons, at least outside of the initial pitch and the idea of the protagonist having white hair. i know the majority of enthusiasts for this show are more than aware of hartman's antics at this point. these anctics, i won't get into. other people are far more suited to explain that stuff vs me, a random guy on the internet. but there's very specific topics that i don't often see get brought up in detail, like the production and staff behind this show.

i'll get into it below the cut so as not to clutter your dashboard. but if you're not familiar with the actual production history of danny phantom, this might be interesting to read.

it's common knowledge these days that stephen silver is the one who developed the design for danny based on hartman's original rough sketches. the similarity between each drawing is apparent, but you can see clear as day which design was gonna be more apt for animation and overall audience allure back in 2003.

he also did character designs for hartman's other poster child, Fairly Oddparents. the trend is similar, though far from a huge concern. character design overhauls happen all the time in media production. designs might be too complicated for animation, so they get stripped down. or maybe things aren't complex enough and more nuance needs to be added. that's normal stuff, and i am not dunking on hartman for not nailing danny's design right out the gate. i'm pointing this out in case you've ever looked at butch hartman's recent work and wondered "how are these done by the same artist?"

the answer is they weren't. hartman had to adapt to stephen silver's conceptual designs in order to work on the storyboards. take from that what you will.

onto the actual writing.

butch barely wrote a single episode for this show's first two seasons.

steve marmel helped write at least 28 episodes of the original two seasons, with writers like sib ventress and marty isenberg bringing a good amount of episodes to the table, as well.

butch hartman is credited primarily for directing and storyboarding this show. the episode pitch and writing was by other people almost entirely. the ONLY episodes in the first two seasons that hartman is credited with having written are mystery meat, one of a kind and splitting images. and he's credited with co-writing these episodes alongside steve marmel and mark banker. ie, he did not write these episodes on his own. and allegedly, butch hartman had a tendency to be credited as a writer for an episode, even if he only wrote a few lines of dialogue. again, take from that what you will.

past that in season 3, he wrote infinite realms, torrent of terror, forever phantom, urban jungle, and ofc, phantom planet. which a lot of people know, these episodes in particular weren't the most enjoyable, nor was the overall direction of them very good.

a director's job is to make sure that the overall tone, feel, and message of the show is being kept consistent with intent. that means meeting with producers, who are the ones managing the, y'know, producing part of the whole project. it may sound like the director is the one heading the project if it's their job to keep things in check. which, i will not deny, hartman must've put in a good deal of work to make the show come out as well as it did.

but pile that with some of the off things per episode. the mean-spirited way that characters tend to be taught lessons, the voice direction getting a drastic change in season 3 (you can hear it explicitly with david kaufman suddenly going for higher pitches instead of the usual one he's done so far). there's really only one consistent motif in the entire show's OST. which isn't a bash against the music producer. it's a concern that the director of the show never asked him to change things up, and ONLY stuck to this one motif.

to briefly touch on the mean-spirited thing. there's multiple instances in the show where danny or someone else is seen fighting back against whatever has given them trouble, or they're taking matters into their own hands to ensure they won't be hurt ahead of time. and repeatedly, the show likes to kick these characters back down for trying to stand up. it's a trend in all of butch hartman's shows, and it's treated more like comedy than anything else. it's up to audience perception on how to view it. but for me personally, it starts to feel like an overused gag and turns into something more malevolent after seeing it overused almost every single episode.

okay besides that, i actually wanna look at specific examples of episodes that steve marmel wrote for. again, this is the guy who's more or less responsible for the show's serialization.

the complete list of episodes is as follows:

Mystery Meat, Parental Bonding, One of a Kind, Attack of the Killer Garage Sale, Splitting Images, What You Want, Bitter Reunions, Prisoners of Love, My Brother's Keeper, Shades of Gray, Fanning the Flames, Teacher of the Year, Fright Night, 13(Thirteen), Public Enemies, Memory Blank, Reign Storm, The Ultimate Enemy, The Fright Before Christmas, Secret Weapons, Flirting with Disaster, Micro Management , Kindred Spirits, and Reality Trip.

multiple episodes listed here are from the first season, which a lot of people consider the show's best. and of the handful listed for season 2, he wrote all of the hour-long specials.

i would be here for hours talking about how steve marmel tackles all of these characters and concepts significantly better than hartman does in season 3. but that's a topic best praised elsewhere. point is, if you watched any of these episodes and thought to yourself "wow, that was actually kinda clever," steve marmel is more or less the guy responsible.

butch hartman was in charge of direction, but that does not give him exclusive credit for every single line of dialogue or plot beat. there could be a LOT we just don't know because people on production staff don't want to comment. but the writing consistency taking a dive off the board by season 3, which is the same season that steve marmel departed from the project due to conflicting direction in the story? you might deduce that butch hartman was not the prized writer and artist behind this otherwise beloved cartoon.

to dredge up an easier-to-tackle target, season 3.

my criticisms are 18-year old echoes at this point, you've heard them all. from otherwise pointless episodes that don't develop the characters or world, to completely out-of-touch writing (looking at you, phantom planet) that juxtaposes the characters with everything we've been told about them so far. it became a slog of a season that didn't have any build-up to it's finale. the occasional gem of an episode like frightmare helped in some aspects. or the promise for something later with d-stabilized. but it all gets swept under the rug thanks to a rushed finale with poor build-up, bad writing direction for the characters, and most importantly, an unlasting effect on the viewer. (or a negative lasting effect, which is arguably worse)

for a season that knew it was on its last leg before inevitably needing to give up, there's seldom few episodes dedicated to advancing an overall narrative, and thus give a slimmer of hope for a satisfying conclusion. instead, the show goes all in with villain-of-the-week stories, and even the returning villains are hardly taken seriously or given more to do besides just being there.

of course, we know the reason steve marmel had left the project was because hartman wanted the show not to taken a more story-focused drive. it almost starts to feel like spite that kept the show so horribly grounded, letting it become stagnant before eventually being forgettable.

all this is in service of letting people know, it really wasn't butch hartman that made the show, not alone. death of the author and all that nonsense aside, he pitched the concept. and it takes a lot of love and dedication to make a concept something you can physically see and adore. don't let him swath in all the credit. recognize the others who made the work you can still enjoy.

[talonabraxas]

LIBRA, THE BALANCE

The sign Libra is one of peculiar interest, but in a most paradoxical manner, for much of its interest is based upon the fact that it lacks spectacular interest of any kind - except in the case of disciples or those nearing the Path. It is a sign of balancing, of careful weighing of values, and of achieving the right equilibrium between the pairs of opposites. It might be regarded as the sign in which the first real vision of the Path appears and of the goal towards which the disciple must ultimately direct his steps. This Path is the narrow razor-edged Path which runs between the pairs of opposites and which - if it is to be safely trodden - requires the development of a sense of values and the power to utilize rightly the balancing, analytical faculty of the mind. It is also the sign of intuitive perception and, on the ordinary way of progression around the zodiac, it comes after the normally drastic experience of the man in Scorpio; this is usually of such a nature that the instinct to self-preservation has been aroused to such an extent that in the dire need of the man (not the disciple, at this time) a call to the soul has gone forth and has evoked response. The first few faint flashes of the intuition have been sensed and vaguely recognized. Then follows the experience in Libra wherein a life is spent in quiet thoughtful reflection or in a condition of static unresponsiveness; it may be a life of balancing, of weighing this and that, and of determining which way the scales shall fall so that in the next sign certain designed results will occur. The following Virgo life will be either one of a personality, materialistic nature, lived under the influence of the material aspect of Virgo, the Mother, or there will be evidenced a slowly emerging soul vibration, indicating that hidden spiritual life of which the Virgin Mother is the foreordained custodian. As progress is made, recurrently or cyclically, around the wheel of life, these experiences and vibratory activities intensify in character until the time comes when the reversal of the wheel takes place. Then Libra leads on to Scorpio and the active soul life (active through the medium of the personality nature and not simply on its own plane) is registered, recorded and noted in Virgo, and balanced and assessed in Libra, eventually bringing about the tests and trials between the soul and the personality, which latter fights with power and determination to preserve the status quo of the balanced expression of these two where the preponderance of the personality influence is not possible. - Esoteric Astrology - Alice Bailey

[geekgirles]

My in-denial, tin foil hat theory back when Phantoms ended and they hinted at the Sanctuary arc being the next thing they would adapt (hence, there were more chances than ever that Wally might come back), but we still didn't know it would be the last season of Young Justice was that, somehow, the writers had been playing the Flinx long game all along.

I can't lie, I 100% am a Teen Titans 2003 truther and those two changed my brain chemistry forever.

However, personal preferences aside, please, let me explain. Because I do have reasons rooted in the narrative to believe this could have been a possible path.

I would like to preface this by saying that I have nothing but mad respect for Spitfire shippers, and I completely understand they would want their own show-original ship to come back rather than a second iteration of the Teen Titans original one. The only reason I am even suggesting they could have gone this path is because, tragically, bringing Spitfite back might have resulted in a mockery of Artemis' own character development since season 2.

Ever since Wally's death, Artemis' personal journey has been marked by tragedy, loss, separation, and learning to cope with it all. The most obvious case being her struggles to move on from losing Wally, but Jade abandoning her family and forcing Artemis to step up as Lian's mother figure also played a key role. And even though she was shown doing so much better in Phantoms, the news of Conner's apparent death threw a wrench to all that.

Which is why I think that suddenly bringing her and Wally back together had he been trapped in the Speed Force and able to return would be such a major disservice to her character. Like, "Yeah, you had to learn to live without the love of your life and to rebuild said life on your own. And you did it! Good job. ...you can have him back now, we put you through the wringer for nothing jk jk."

And then, there's Wally's side in all this.

To be completely honest, I love DC but I'm not nearly as well-versed in its lore and elements as more hardcore fans, so I could be wrong about this. But depending on the source they worked with or even their own artistic licenses, for all we know, Wally could have not aged a day since he entered the Speed Force. While everyone else around him grew up. That could certainly make things awkward. I mean, imagine his reaction upon finding out he's suddenly younger than Dick!

In fact, he doesn't even need to remain the same age for things to change drastically for him in regards to the people in his life. Even if he aged inside the Speed Force, it wouldn't change the fact that he spent over five years away from everything. His life might have been put on hold, but his friends and family moved on.

Artemis had to move on from him and started seeing someone else.

Barbara became wheelchair bound and donned the mantle of Oracle.

Zatanna now has protegés of her own and they all take turns to become Doctor Fate.

Conner and M'gann got married after months thinking he was dead, when in truth, he had been saved by heroes from the future and remained trapped in the Phantom Zone alongside genocidal Kryptonian prisoners...

No matter how you look at it, Wally would not have been able to fit back in as easily as if he'd never left.

Which, added to the Sanctuary plotline, could have been more than enough reason to send him there to learn to cope and heal from his experiences while the rest of the Team grapple with the idea of finally having him back yet... not quite.

How did I manage to somehow include Flinx in all this, you may ask?

Well, ever since season 3, it's been established that all heroes are constantly looking for and trying to help dormant metahumans who'd been kidnapped and experimented on in order to awaken their metagenes. It is a given that many of these people would be sent to the Sanctuary, where Wally could meet them. So, why not Jinx?

I always found it a little annoying that Young Justice's iteration of the Fearsome Five never included her. I mean, I seem to remember they changed Martians' super strength for telekinesis because they didn't want to have too many characters with similar powers, and yet Psimon's team ended up having four members with super strength and no magic user.

Not to mention, they already turned Delphis into an Indian girl with supernaturally coloured hair and eyes with magic powers. Seeing as even the comics retconned Jinx's appearance so she'd resemble her cartoon self more, Young Justice doing the same thing and even re-imagining her as a victim of metahuman trafficking instead of an evil sorceress with no past wouldn't necessarily have been that much of a stretch.

It might have been a welcomed change, even.

So maybe the idea of Wally and Jinx meeting each other at the Sanctuary and growing close over how their lives got turned completely upside down in the blink of an eye could have been a possibility. Or maybe I'm just desperate. All options are equally possible.

I have half the mind to not write a fic about this and focus on my current WIP. But if somebody wants to take a crack at this, by all means...