#Bird Primary

[wisteria-lodge]

bird primary + burned bird secondary

Hey, if you’re still interested in sorting people i’d like to ask what you think! i think snake/bird or bird/bird are maybe likely for me, but the there’s some difficulty with finding what i’m motivated by as, similarly like you said about Ed Teach, the answer is not much.

arguments for bird primary (i think) are:

1. my co-worker saying that i’m a ‘technical’ person, being nitpicky about how things are said

Being very technical/nitpicky about phrasing is more of a secondary thing. Probably evidence of a Prep-work secondary (Bird or Badger) or a prepwork model.

2. that one time me and and friend A were trying to peek inside friend B’s sketchbook while friend B was saying to us that she doesn’t want to show us, but then to get me on her side she said that when i didn’t want to show my sketchbook i said i shouldn’t be forced if i don’t want to, so she shouldn’t be either, and i was like yeah that tracks.

3. i do create consistent framework of ‘rules’

You are also coming in pretty strong with the numbered list. Bird primaries LOVE numbered lists. And creating consistent rule frameworks… well that’s the definition, isn’t it?

I loved doing that write-up about Ed Teach, because I think it’s rare that we see a Bird primary who is *young* the way he is, actively creating his framework of rules. But it’s absolutely a type of Bird.

arguments against bird primary:

1. one of my ‘rules’ is that motivation and feelings should be taken into     account when deciding what to do, as my motivation and energy are fickle - just ‘the truth’ isn’t enough for me?

But “just a feeling” wouldn’t be enough for you either, I’m guessing? Yeah, this is still Bird. Some Birds like using emotion as a data point. It’s like the thing with the sketchbook. Probably it felt fine/fun/not a big deal trying to get a peek at your friend’s sketchbook, but then you were reminded it went against a previously established rule, and instead of questioning the rule in an emotional way, you were like “oh, right, of course.” No one like hypocrites, but Bird primaries HATE hypocrites. 

2. in the quiz, specifically the question that if something convinced me that my people-first moral outlook is not as logical as some other hypothetical outlook, would i be guilty about abandoning, and i would be guilty. though i honestly mostly think that that kind of outlook is right, but don’t act on it much. one time i almost went volunteering. this might point to snake-admiring-badgers phenomenon?

Or Birds admiring Badgers. Honestly, the way this is phrased is very “I would feel guilty giving up a people-first outlook, because people first is objectively right.” Which… is Bird. Heck, asking “is people-first the way to go” is a question you seem to be currently dealing with. 

i think i could be motivated by close connections, as even when i’m unmotivated by other things idea of it seems very resonant, but i’d never had ones (with deep mutual understanding and stability and whatnot. except maybe my sister), so i don’t know what i’d act like if i did.

So you think you might like the Snake way of doing things… but it’s totally a hypothetical. 

Tell me about what you were like as a kid: i read a lot, until i was 8-10 only encyclopedia-type stuff–i think i liked making sense of things, though maybe that’s true for all kids. 

Reading mostly/only encyclopedias until you’re ten is not typical kid stuff. I’m thinking Bird for you. I’m thinking Double Bird for you. 

i also remember being unmotivated and cynical in a specific way, like i remember thinking things like “sure, this superpower (like bending) seems fun, but if suddenly people were able to do it, it would very quickly become boring like everything else” a lot. i was also kinda shit at interacting with other kids, i approached them kinda earnestly, but was confused on what to do next.

Getting neurodivergent vibes off of you, which is unrelated to this system. All this really tells me is that whatever secondary you have, it’s got a social setting. 

people talk about missing experiencing happiness like they did in childhood, but for me it’s not like that, i actually became a bit better at it with time.

Personally I think it’s a red flag when people idealize or talk constantly about their childhood. 

What’s your fantasy?: i’d like to have people who really care about me and understand me and the other way around, have things i want to do and would be able to dedicate myself to, possibly something intellectually stimulating.

Pretty general so far. A kind of general Badger primary fantasy (which you did lead with, so there’s that.) And a pretty general Idealist fantasy. 

and that’d make me feel competent, be able to figure out how to express myself in art.

I think your secondary might be a little burnt. I’m keeping an eye on ‘I did a cool think but idk it’s probably pretty normal’ ‘I don’t know what to do in social situations’ ‘I don’t feel competent/able’ type asides. 

also not exactly a fantasy, but i’ve considered that if there was a button to press that traded my life for a huge amount’s of people’s lives or happiness i’d do it, because it makes sense to, 

That’s a general hypothetical, because honestly a LOT of people would do that, for a lot of different reasons. 

but i wouldn’t be that willing to put work in the greater good. except if the problem was fun i guess.

Your secondary is a  bit burnt, and if I were you I’d probably do a deep dive on executive functioning / adhd, but disclaimer - I do not diagnose with these, that is super unethical and also not possible. 

Is there a character who you *really* identify with? (Why?): honestly not really? there’s mostly instances. for example in sortinghatchats’ sorting of Sokka they talked about how when he understood that for example he shouldn’t be sexist, it was important for him to not to be, and that it wasn’t a gut reaction. other than moments similar to this. 

I mean, SHC did sort Sokka as a pretty loud Double Bird.  

i might relate to  characters who are disconnected from themselves and are basically learning how to be a person. 

Yeah… that sounds pretty Bird to me. That sounds like a lot of Bird primaries I know. 

What makes you feel powerful?: when there’s a need to define/make sense of things, and i get to do that

Bird. 

What was an especially difficult time in your life? What made it difficult?: there was a period in uni where i stopped doing assignments and got really behind and isolated myself. it was difficult because i felt incompetent, bored, and like there was nothing worth doing, and because even though i was really down, it didn’t seem like my friends cared that much to help me or even to listen to me.

Have you considered that you might have been depressed? 

Tell me about your parents/family situation/current living situation: i live with my parents and two siblings.

my dad is gets stuff done, is analytical and seemingly never thinks that he could be wrong. i like asking him questions and listen him to him explaining stuff, and he likes doing the explaining but i kinda gave up on having non-one-sided discussions with friendly disagreements - he gets way too intense about 'convincing’ me he’s right, and i’d like him to just talk like there’s a possibility that there’s truth to what i’m saying too. he obviously cares about me and my siblings but does have emotional-stuntedness of a dad. can often be cold to my mom.

It sounds like your dad is an extremely loud Bird primary - and I’m thinking that being told again and again that your own Bird is wrong and doesn’t measure up… has probably contributed the burning, and the way you seem to see yourself as not especially capable. 

my mom is very emotional, spiritual and absentminded, has a bit of a thing about not expressing her boundaries at all, until pushed to the edge, and trampling a bit over others’. we regularly go get coffee or travel a bit, but in our dynamic she tends to share about her life and feelings a lot, and i mostly not at all, because if i did i’d just feel misunderstood and frustrated or patronized, or she’d just ignore what i say about my perspective and continue talking about how she sees it. our sense of humor is sometimes nothing alike, and sometimes exactly the same.

Your mom sounds like a pretty loud Badger secondary. 

me and my older brother used to bicker a lot, and he would tease me, a bit meanly - basically typical sibling relationship, but later we mostly stopped interacting, then he had some serious mental health issues, he got somewhat better and now we’re awkwardly polite. also in a weird turn now i seem to have more power in our dynamic, because he sees me as a confident and assertive person, which i’m not?

I wouldn’t say that. You’ve got a burned secondary, but you definitely seem to be out there doing stuff. And you somehow beat that period of depression, so cheers. 

my little sister is about a decade younger than me, she’s in early teens now, but i think we understand each other best in our family. we sometimes watch shows together. when she was very small i didn’t like her much and thought my mom spoiled her, but at some point realised that when i was younger and being a bastard my family pointing out that i was being a bastard and judging me just made me feel and act worse, so i tried be someone who she’d feel likes her as a person even when i don’t like how she acts, and we got along since then. she has a bit of fiery temperament and has a tumultuous relationship with our mom. 

And here we get a little peek at your rule making progress  “Acting like a bastard doesn’t mean you are a bastard, and equating the two will only make the behavior worse.” Seems like a decent rule to me. 

[mooglesorts]

i have not been active on this blog in a While and being very normal about my old hyperfixation lorien legacies, which has an absolute fuckload of characters to sort, has finally gotten me to crawl out of my hole.

[spoilers ahead for both lorien legacies and its sequel series!]

there is a LOT of ground to cover here, and i am mostly going to limit myself to sorting characters and themes from the first series, but my initial notes are:

probably one of the biggest overarching themes of the series is toxic birdsec, and the harm it can do to every aspect of a society or a person's life--on both a systematic level and an individual one--right down to their basic humanity. by extension it also goes into similarly fucked up lion and bird primary used as weapons and tools of abuse, and how they interplay with each other.

a large part of this stems from setrákus ra being The Worst Fucking Lion Bird Ever to Live, lmao. he's an interesting example of birdsec interplaying with cannibal badger, and also of a lion bird who's a cheetah in that he uses systems as tools to manipulate people instead of actually believing them. he hands out toxic systems like candy while peppering them with outright lies, and blithely admits that even the one that he's put centuries into building--mogadorian progress, and the great book--is at its heart just a ruse to run his cult on. the truth he pretends to worship and champion isn't external, objective truth--it's an extension of him. he is the ultimate truth. and the only truth he believes in is his cause, which is that he has the right and ability to own, make use of, and do whatever he sees fit with everything in existence. everyone and everything that could possibly be a shiny or a tool belongs to him.

one of the other overarching themes is toxic badger primary and secondary--cannibal badgering AHOY--as well as toxic lion primary, and it is a great deal less intentional than the bird cautionary tale part lmao

five is a bird snake with deeply toxic lion primary and bird secondary models, one of which he picked up after getting involved with a cult, and one of which he's had since his abusive birdsec guardian started amputating his masks by trying to apply actor bird to them. :') his brand of birdsplode and snakeburn make him horribly, horribly vulnerable to the cult, especially combined with focused, one-on-one gaslighting and manipulation from setrákus himself, and he has to burn his bird right to a crisp to break away from it. i am very biased and i have so much to say about my boy, but i plan to go in depth about this later

there are a LOT of lionsecs among the loric garde kids. the only surviving ones who aren't lionsecs are marina's badger and five's snake (the latter of which is heavily villainized, lol); number one is either a lionsec or a snakesec, maggie is either a birdsec or a badgersec, and we don't really see enough of hannu to be sure, but my guess is badgersec. in context, whatever these books are saying here i am not sure i like it lmao

this stands in contrast to the non-garde allies, minus adam, who end up being Part of the Gang. sam and lexa are birdsecs, and sarah and malcolm are both badgersecs.

speaking of adam, he is a lion snake with a cool, calculated double bird performance/model, who has been waiting all his life for a chance to go Absolutely Feral. there are a lot of ways in which he's a real shithead, which track given his life and circumstances up to then but are also real 😬 sometimes, but like, good for him. go ape shitt, kid

nine is an awful, AWFUL double lion who models/performs the worst parts of badger primary; he also uses lionsec stereotypes and methods to misdirect people, so that he can hurt, gaslight, prey on, and abuse them. it's genuinely interesting how he does it, and i could go on for a long time about it, but it's also Infuriating because the authors really want you to love him for being a ~charming jerk with a heart of gold,~ so that is for another post. in the sequel series he also picks up a nasty posthumous birdsec model from sandor to gleefully torture children with so lmfao

there seem to be a lot of birdsecs and badgersecs among the mentor cêpans, which tracks, because, well, mentors. interestingly, it seems to be a pattern so far that the birdsec mentors are either some of the most deeply abusive among them (see: rey, sandor, and ethan even though he's an unofficial cêpan), or the most decent parents of them under the circumstances (see: katarina).

john is a hognose (badgery snake) 'i live here' snake lion, and a VERY loud one. he's set on saving the world mainly a) in order to save his People, or b) because it's what they would want. he also believes STRONGLY in snake values as applied to other people, and absolutely cannot grok that anyone would feel differently--he holds back on killing a major enemy because he's worried about killing a friendly acquaintance's Person--and honestly he can be kind of a huge dick about it lmao. he burns HARD at the end of the first series when sarah dies; in the second, he copes by making an entire community into his circle and no longer gives a shit about the rest of the world outside it, including groups who are in similar if not worse circumstances than his community. Horrific War Crimes Ensue!

rex is an everyone double badger and i love him so much. i love him So Much. he is a wonderful example of how to write a morally dubious character whose dodgy qualities interest me instead of making me grit my teeth and Tolerate Them. his arc could have fixed So Much of the Ending's Bullshit and i will be forever mad that they dumped it in the trash

there is more, oh my god there's so much more, this series has SO many characters in it, but this is a start thank you for coming to my ted talk

[painted-crow]

hi! I hope you're well. I've been thinking about my primaries and secondaries a lot lately. I'm always interested in people and I'm very good with understanding them too: it drives most of what I do, from my job to my choice of education to what I do for fun. ethics in my mind are also a bit contextual because of this: I can't really evaluate an act without knowing more about the person and situation//it's never black and white for me. I'm not an idealist, I think? (1)

I'm already giggling at this. You are such a loud Bird. "Evaluate an act" is an incredibly Bird lens. I think you might be associating Idealists with rigidity, or with certainty. Healthy Birdpris actually make a lot of space for uncertainty and for being able to say they don't have a good conclusion for whether something specific is Right yet.

And Birdpri systems are complex and built gradually over one's life precisely because there's so much nuance to be had in different situations. Not everything is going to run up against the core axioms of your system (things like "human life is inherently valuable" and "unnecessary suffering is bad").

Idealists can value people too. Birds tend to really value understanding others, it's a highly prioritized form of empathy for us, but not everyone works that way. Someone else might say, "I don't understand but I feel for you," or "I don't understand but I want to help, so you tell me what you need." Other primaries value understanding too, but for a Bird it's the first thing we go for--we feel pretty lost if we don't have some model of what's going on.

secondary-wise, much of the understanding of people thing happens sort of subconsciously--I figure out what's happening w people or how they're thinking or what they really want right 99% of the time, and it's always without really thinking about it. when it comes to other things, though, I usually work like this: I plan a thing/reach a solution for a problem, check w one person I trust about whether it works, then I execute. (2)

You've basically written me a flowchart. You lean heavily on plans and processes. Birdsec.

Having a skill down to the point where it works without you thinking about it doesn't make it not a skill; this is a Rapid-Fire Bird thing, not an Improvisational thing.

Checking your work with someone trusted doesn't make you a Badger; in this case it makes you a very meticulous Bird who's using your resources effectively.

I'm guessing at badger primary (I think just ensuring *everyone* is understood well matters the most to me? so it feels like a better guess than the rest rn), but very uncertain about secondary. feels a little gryffy sometimes but not really? I am anti-charging or plowing ahead--plans keep me sane and calm. I also read through multiple posts about shc cross-verifying traits and analyses and had to feel like I was getting nowhere before I sent this, if that says anything? thank you for this! (3)

Again, the "everyone needs to be understood" thing is a Birdpri trait. Why does everyone need to be understood? So that you and everyone else can factor the full context into your personal decision-making systems, of course! If you care about someone, you have a mental model of their needs and priorities and favorite ice cream flavors, right?

Badger language tends to be more like, "everyone needs to be cared for, their voice heard, not forgotten about--they deserve to get the help they need because they're people." But understanding is so important to Birds because a lot of our identity is often wrapped up in our systems, which we see as a thing that can be understood--and not everyone has this intricately defined worldview that they think about a lot and can explain to other people.

Plans keep you sane and calm and you've been problem-solving your Sorting by doing tons of research and cross-referencing everyone's different writing to come up with a mental model of the system to work with. Also, for all the reading you've been doing from probably a variety of different posters, I was the one you chose to write to--probably because my extremely double Bird writing voice sounds comfortingly familiar.

Welcome to the birdhouse, nonny.

[thelongestway]

Sorting Log Horizon: The Show

I wanted to write about sorting Shiroe and Kanami, but wound up writing a short blurb on the show first. Log Horizon is a very distinctly Bird show, both in narrative and aesthetic. Its slow narrative focuses on worldbuilding and details, on planning and executing the plan, on what to do when plans fail and how people live outside of those plans. Pretty much every character that gets the spotlight knows how to interact with that sort of world (and when to push up glasses evilly for maximum effect!). Outwardly, Log Horizon is an issekai - that is, a show where people wind up in a parallel world, in this case - the world of an MMO, Elder Tale. However, what's different about LH is that, as a show, Log Horizon is focused mostly on the society which arises as a result of the jump between worlds rather than on individuals. Most of our point of view characters are highly competent in this new world. They're high-level players, raiders, or socialites; now, they're functional immortals in a fantasy world, and there are thousands of them. So what is explored isn't "this is how the new world works", but a more interesting concepts: how to navigate a world that is only partially known, and how to live and build in that world. You do get new players growing into their own as well, but the narrative spends much less time with them. Our key players are competent at the outset, and the challenges match them. While there are some Badger vibes present--quite a few of the characters can bring formidable social forces to bear--it's still, at heart, a Bird show. The social connections are part of the general web of connections the author presents, and they are on par with the world as given, not more important than the world. One of my favorite things about Log Horizon is just how unabashedly Bird it is. It isn't afraid to spend entire episodes on clearing difficult raids (and has the most accurate depiction of raiding that I know in media), nor is it afraid of spending 15 minutes of a 20-minute episode on a leader's speech after a failure. It gives a level of exposition that isn't characteristic of most media, but is highly enjoyable for those who like that sort of thing. Interestingly, most characters (from an initial look) seem to have similar Primary and Secondary houses. It's a Bird thing, I think: method and worldview bleed into each other.

[reds-burrow]

I've actually been in a situation recently where my Mom expressed a differing opinion about someone online. It just felt like she were assuming alot based off what little she knew about this person online. I tried to cut holes in her assumptions but was dismissed. I couldn't let it go because I kept thinking how the same assumptions that she made about this person could be used against her. I thought of several examples both in real life and in the media where someone similar to the person online proved the assumptions wrong. Plus the media examples were from movies that SHE frequently watched. I just couldn't fathom why my Mom couldn't seem to have any empathy towards this person who in a lot of ways is similar to her. It bothered me a lot and I HAD to come back to make at least try to make her see what I saw.

Based off this story and nothing else, I'm going to guess you have some Bird in your Primary. The assumption that you could change your mom's mind with logical evidence and the great discomfort with the obvious (to you at least) hypocrisy look like a Bird to me.

Also, the fact that you were able to come up with a list of examples to present to her sounds like a Built Secondary, but then again you could simply have a good memory for these types of things. What would be more telling would be how you presented your argument and how you dealt with things if she started arguing back.

[sevilemar]

Hi there. What do you think - emotional birm primaries, Birds that lived burned for so long their systems are crap and there's no truth, Birds that the quiz can't read as one, Birds that just live and have no idea what's happening. Do you think such exists? Yay or nay?

Very much yay. I'm sure every one of them exists, separate and in combination; life is too complicated not to.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by emotional birds, though? Everyone except sociopaths experiences emotions, and birds are no different. It has nothing to do with where your morality comes from. I think you mean gut instinct? From what I've seen, there's also a lot of birds in the community who cherish their gut instinct as one of several valuable sources of information.

And I'm no expert, but I also think a lot of birds have build their systems around the realisation that there is no (universal) truth? I could be wrong, but I don't think that's automatically a cause for long-term burning in and off itself.

As for birds that have no idea what's happening, that's everyone who doesn't know shc, isn't it? It's an interesting question though: is a bird still a bird even if they don't know they're a bird because they don't know shc? I think so, but I don't really know. Systems like shc are definitely a good way to get to know yourself better, and can help you with healing and finding a better path. It did for me.

[mysticalenthusiastvoid]

I'm bored, so I'm going to sort some characters from my science fantasy series.

The younger sister: Bird Primary, Snake Secondary - Ends up in our dimension or a version of it after her sister saves her. After recieving some culture shocks and being lucky enough to be found by people who take her in, she adapts to this world. (She's only twelve when she comes here.) She's always searching for truth and wants things to make sense, which ties into her eventual career as a physicist. I'm leaning towards Snake sec for her since for plot reasons she has to find ways around or not telling the truth about her origins. She is also used to having to read people or a room and adjusting accordingly. Has Bird and Badger sec models she built for her parental figures and for achieving her goals.

Older sister - Snake Bird who burns after she thinks she killed her sister and unburns as she starts to recover from some of her trauma/alcoholism and realizes she didn't kill her sister.

Younger sister's daughter - Lion Primary, Unknown Secondary. She burns as a child due to having clairvoyant abilities and not knowing why she knows things or getting in trouble for knowing things she shouldn't.

Younger sister's husband - Lion Primary, Badger Secondary. I think Lion Primary because when he feels like something is wrong, it's wrong and he's not changing his mind. Badger Sec because he will grind as long as he needs to and invests a lot of time in caretaking and in his community. His twin brother is a Lion Bird who works for the CIA and wishes his twin would also put his clairvoyant abilities to use like he does.

[ros-aura]

Taylor Swift

Bird/Lion Primary, Bird/Snake Secondary

Would've Could've Should've is a song about a crisis of faith originating from a person. I personally feel that a Snake Primary (eg. me) would write the lyrics a little differently. A Snake Primary sees the value in their values changing due to their people/persons, and in my personal opinion I think we're much more likely to be happier about our changed beliefs because to us, we changed for the better even if by a little. We see beliefs as changeable but the status of our persons in our minds not changeable. We are more loyal to ourselves than we are to systems or religion, unless we have very strong beliefs that we prioritise over ourselves (happened once to me, but the model ended up crashing and burning).

You can say Taylor is a Snake Primary with burned Idealist Primary model house, but I think her words and actions prove otherwise. Olivia Rodrigo once was a fan of Taylor. She is very loyal and admired her. Taylor, seeing that deja vu could have copied Cruel Summer, was willing to throw away the connection she had with her and fought for rights on that song. Now, I don't know the logic behind Taylor, but I know Snake or Badger Primaries would probably take a different approach towards someone within their circle.

Unless Olivia isn't in her circle, then my argument is void.

However, you can tell Taylor valued Olivia in some way, when Taylor re-uploaded Olivia's cover on her Instagram story. If she valued her as a person and not an ideal, why would she do that to a person? It seems to me that once someone violates a value, Taylor removes them from her list, which seems less Snakey/Badgery than Lion/Bird.

Whether or not her beliefs lie within herself or external beliefs is less obvious. I was heavily considering Lion Primary for Taylor because she seems to be internally driven in what we see in her choices she makes. However, how she gets to her choices isn't made too publicly, and I wouldn't completely disagree with the possibility that she could be a Bird Primary as of now, with Mastermind in her latest album but it could be her Bird Secondary being loud as it is. She seems to be someone who comes to decisions after quite a bit of logical thinking and thought so I think she may be a Bird over Lion now. Anyone who has thoughts on Taylor's Primary is welcome to join in.

[feyinvestigations]

Out of costume intermission

Pt1 //// prev. //// next

Masterpost

[themortaldraw]

fleshed out the wedding outfits i made for this silly little post

edit: realized i used the wrong pngs without the very minor fixes that only i would care about. so i fixed it.

[synonymroll648]

headcanon that the reason sophie still has eyelashes to pull on the regular is that grady and edaline worked something out with the dizznees to get a tasteless formula to help eyelash growth specifically to put drops of in her bottles of youth. because there’s no way her ptsd-induced trichotillomania (oversimplified definition for those who aren’t familiar: hair pulling disorder) is gonna die down during the war, so they’re trying to make sure she doesn’t move from eyelashes to eyebrows or her Hair hair by giving her More Eyelashes

[wisteria-lodge]

bird primary (in process of building system) + badger secondary

Hi! It’s been a while since I first took the shc quiz, and in retaking it recently I’ve had an unfortunate bit of identity crisis </3 Originally, I was Double Snake but now I’m sincerely doubting my primary. I was given Lion by the quiz, but I don’t think I’m full Lion as I don’t exactly have a “cause,” I’m just passionate about what I want (and what I want tends to be very self-focused and more selfish than I’d think of when I think Lion).

Well, you very well might be a Glory Hound Lion. :) It’s also possible that you’re sort of between causes - or morally bored - or a Fay Lion with a non-traditional definition of “good” and “bad.” Let’s see what we’ve got. 

But I don’t want to influence your judgement too much, so I’ll get into just talking about myself :) 

I’ve always been a very quiet person, and when I was younger I know it was because I had a fear of authority figures and disappointing them, whether it was my parents, a teacher, a coach, or anyone else. I still remember the one time I got told off in kindergarten for crouching in the door to the hallway to look at a caterpillar. Vividly. 

Fear of authority figures can definitely be a human thing, but it does hit external primaries (Badger and Bird) the hardest. 

Now, I’m still a quiet person though I think that’s mostly the social anxiety. I’d like to think I can hold a conversation if someone else starts it, but I’m very bad at initiating them unless I have a specific reason to. I can’t just go up to someone and start small talk, I’d die inside.

There might be a little Burning going on with your secondary. This is a very hopeless-sounding way of conceptualizing a pretty normal, neutral statement. “I initiate conversations when I have something I want to talk about.” Yeah! That’s how it works. “Nice weather we’re having” is not a start to a conversation, it is a phrase that means “I recognize you as a member of my social group and we are not enemies.” 

I’m at the point in my life where I’ve just started college, so the biggest decision in my life right now is choosing a major. I don’t know what I want to do after, only that I want it to be fulfilling. I don’t know if I could handle something that felt like a drag. However, my idea of ‘fulfilling’ has a lot to it. I want a job where it feels like I’m doing something that’s greater than myself 

Okay, definitely getting some Idealist primary (Bird or Lion) here. 

or something that won’t cause me to remain stagnant. I want to be able to grow in my job in some way and consistently gain new experiences—if it’s boring or too routine, I’ll hate myself for continuing in it. 

I’m thinking you might have an improvisational secondary. Maybe Snake - Snake especially loves new people, new experiences. 

For example, for a few months last year my only criteria was that I wanted to be able to travel a lot or live in a new place. 

That’s honestly a really great place to start looking. A lot of people absolutely do not want jobs that require a lot of travel. 

I’d also like to do something I want to do, but logically I know that’s not sustainable. Since I was seven or eight, I’ve wanted to be an author and that dream hasn’t really faded but realistically, I am not going to do that. The most I’d do would be minor in creative writing so I could have something creatively fulfilling as well as mentally fulfilling to occupy my time.

Every single author. Every single one of them. Had a day job of some kind before they were able to make it their full-time job. (Unless they were independently wealthy.) It’s common for even *successful* writers to have another thing they do, because I’ve been there, and putting pressure on your art to be the only thing that sustains you is pretty intense and can lead to burn out. 

So when I hear “I want to be an author but that’s not LOGICAL, that’s not REALISTIC,” number one thing I hear is Bird primary. “I want this, but my system says no, and so that’s what I’m going with.” 

And I’m… lightly suggesting… that it’s possible your system may be a little rigid, a little black and white. Maybe it could be cool to be a flight attendant, or pharmaceutical rep, or event coordinator and write a book on the side. 

The real reason I’m torn though is because I also put a lot of emphasis on what other people want me to do. 

This is a person thing, but it hits External Primaries hardest. I’m starting to like Bird for you. 

My mom wants me to go into computer science because she wants me to get a good, well-paying job out of college and has faith that I’ll be good at it. I’ve taken my first computer science class this year, and while she’s right that I am good at it at this level, I’m not sure if I will continue to be. I’ve been enjoying the challenge of a new subject so far, but I don’t know if this is what I want to tie myself to for the rest of my life. I do think I would be willing to, though. Like I said, I did enjoy the challenge. 

You’re sounding a little black-and-white again. You do not have to “tie yourself” to computer science for your whole life if you major in it in college. You will almost certainly not have the same job your whole life. I’m not sure that’s even possible anymore. There is a high level of probability that at some point you will do a job that does not currently exist, just because that’s the way the world works. 

If you like computer science now, great. If you fall out of love with it - maybe it gets predictable and boring - also fine. You’ll have experience, and be able to move sideways to something that suits the person you are in five years a little better. 

But I also have put an unreasonable amount of weight on what my English teacher from last year said to me when she told me I was a good writer and wanted to see me go into the arts in some way. And I kind of want that too but again, I also want a job that will make me money. I am not going to spend 4 years at a college just to get an English degree or something like that. So essentially, I still don’t know what I want to do. I’m working on it, but I want it to be my own decision at the end of the day. 

This sounds like a Bird primary decision making process to me. “My mom says x, my English teacher says y, the song “What Do You Do With a B.A. in English” from Avenue Q says z. I am trying to synthesize all of these into a workable model of the world.” (And I’m running into a few problems, because I want one option to be Objectively Correct, and another Objectively Incorrect.)

You want a job that’s creatively/emotionally fulfilling, allows for a lot of travel (and upward mobility within an organization?) and makes a lot of money right out of college. That’s a slightly tall order. But, you’re at college, and one of the functions of college is to sort yourself out, figure out who you are when you’re not part of your school/family/community. So if you are a Bird, and it sounds like you’re at a liberal arts school, you’re at the right place to try out a lot of things. And remember, you can put individual relevant *classes* that you’ve taken on your resume as well, not just your major. 

What I do know is that the most emotionally and mentally fulfilling thing I’ve ever done was stage manage in high school—I was head stage manager my senior year, and I had to somewhat build the position from the ground up since, as a result of COVID, there was no one left who’d stage managed in person. The amount of pride I felt at seeing the fall show was unmatched, and it did help that my director read out a series of acknowledgments that included me at the end of the final show :) That moment on stage after the bows is what comes to mind first when I’m asked to think of my happiest memory, and I think it’s only a little bit due to recency bias.

So you like being part of, and ORGANIZING a team. That’s very relevant information. (Badger secondary? Bird secondary? Your ask has been very primary focused so far.) 

I am not, by the way, even considering becoming a theater major. That sounds like a recipe for disaster equal to an English major.

Okay, hypothetically.  Thought experiment. (I’m absolutely not saying you do this.) But hypothetically, you major in theater. You participate in/stage manage 6-8 shows during your college career. Put that on your resume. If I’m a hiring manager, what does that tell me? That you’re organized and detail orientated. You work well with other people, are good at managing a team, have a strong work ethic. You probably are decently familiar with fundraising/advertising/permit wrangling. You’re a good abstract/outside the box thinker. You’re good at putting on presentations. Probably a good public speaker. Work well under pressure. Those are all pretty good, and honestly very flexible job skills. 

A surprising amount of the people I know in politics, business, non-profits, start-ups and general entrepreneur stuff actually have some kind of performing-arts background. My point is not that you should major in theater, or even minor in theater, my point is this is black-and-white thinking again. Once you leave school it’s not going to be ‘plug in A, B comes out.’ In every industry I’ve been in, or been adjacent to, it’s much more fluid than that. There’s also a lot more learning on the job than I expected there would be. You’re also allowed to have side gigs, and hobbies as an adult. 

(it’s possible extremely specialized might work slightly differently. But the dentists and optometrists I know also come from like, idk. Dentist/optometrist *families?*) 

The most difficult moments in my life, I’ve realized, have been when I’ve felt unfulfilled. I have to be stimulated enough to be challenged or I will quickly grow unmotivated, lethargic, and genuinely depressed. Stimulation for me can come in the forms of relationships, school work, extracurriculars, or creative inspiration. As long as one of those things is interesting to me and taking up enough of my time, I find that my mental state is significantly better. This past semester, for example, I did at a community college so I could transfer to my current one in the spring, and the classes were so painfully easy that I found myself napping in almost all of my free time and doing less than nothing except when I had to. I also withdrew from my friends because at that point, talking to them was too much effort. If that seems like a contradiction, it is.

It sounds like you might actually have just been depressed. It also sounds very possible that you’re some flavor of neurodivergent, and under-stimulation can absolutely be the kiss of death if that’s the case. As Sherlock Holmes puts it, “I have a curious constitution. I never remember feeling tired by work, though idleness exhausts me completely.”

Talking to [my friends] would likely have helped, but I couldn’t be bothered. Being very alone, very bored, and incredibly under stimulated have led to some of my worst mental health periods—and I use this as an example because it feels very telling and also because I don’t want to go too terribly dark, not because it’s necessarily the worst I’ve ever felt, if that makes sense. Losing close friends also affects me poorly. 

I don’t have much data about how you actually solve problems, so I’m not sure about your secondary. There are a lot of mentions of friends, being part of a group, and not liking when that isn’t the case? But you could just be a social version of any of the primaries.

I don’t make friends easily, so I only have two very memorable losses. The first explained the situation to me afterwards and apologized, and it very much wasn’t her fault. But for whatever reason, I still can’t get all the way over it. It was a very online thing, so I remember what I saw her and the people she left me for say. We used to be about as close to best friends as you could get in two years or so, but we don’t really talk now at all. We’re cordial, but the last time we spoke was also in November, which as of writing this was around three months ago. 

Interesting. You had a falling out with a friend, and she apologized for the situation and explained why she behaved badly? Now, it’s interesting that you want the fact that there’s a sensible explanation to wipe out all the emotion associated with the friend break up (or think that it should wipe out the emotion associated with the friend break up…) That way of seeing the world - emotions are unreliable, I want to be able to logic myself into feeling however I want to feel… that’s extremely Bird primary. 

The second one also really messed me up, and I’m still bitter and conflicted about it. I know there should be no timeline on moving on, but six months to still be periodically obsessing over it seems excessive to me personally. 

That one was a bit more my fault, but it certainly wasn’t entirely and every so often I get irrationally angry that this friend didn’t give me the time to think and resolve everything properly. I don’t know exactly where we stand since it was kind of a mutual breaking off of the friendship, but it wasn’t really as clean as that and I’d thought we’d eventually talk about it again, but we haven’t. I’m not the one who made the final call, so I’m not going to reach out again first either. 

This is also very Bird primary to me. It’s not so much that the friendship ended that bothered you, it’s that you haven’t been able to make sense of why it ended, and you low-key resent this friend not giving you a logical, cohesive explanation. 

I also ended up asking the first friend after a few weeks whether or not it had been at all my fault when they’d broken off the friendship just to reassure myself that the feelings brought up by the second friend (i.e. I was a toxic and terrible friend) weren’t true. I knew it hadn’t been, and she told me again that it hadn’t been. But it had felt like a pattern, so I had to check. 

Checking in with an outside source to confirm your idea of yourself actually seems like a very Badger secondary move. 

Anyway. 

I think most of all I want to be loved and appreciated for who I am. But not for what I do. 

Yeah, that’s the dream. To be loved because you’re a person, and not because you’re a tool/trophy/symbol.

I want to be loved by those I love and admired by my peers, but not for being able to appear more competent than I am, if that makes sense. I do, however, want to be the best in whatever I do, but being listed or seen as among the best will work in a pinch. 

I see a little of what made the quiz give you Lion. I don’t think you are, but this fantasy sounds very young Lion. I want to be seen as the best, but the best at what… is less important. There’s also a recurring theme of an intense need for external validation - from your mom, your teachers, your director, even in your fantasy here, it’s important that you’re listed as “best” on some kind of external list. I suspect this might be a young Bird thing, but it’s a thing to keep an eye on, because that’s a dangerous sort of drug. 

That seems contradictory to my desire not to be put on a pedestal, but that’s different in my mind. I don’t want to be seen as unreachable. And those I love seeing me for what I do before who I am hurts just a bit.

I think I’m liking Badger secondary for you, if only because a big part of this fantasy is the desire to be *relatable* 

Finally, because I fear this is getting too long, family dynamics. I grew up Christian and am not anymore, which probably says a lot already. 

… I mean, I’d love if you went into why. Intense relationship with religion is often a marker of Bird primary, but there are lots of reason to step away from religion, and they all say a lot about you. 

My mom and dad both have high expectations of me—which you might have already been able to gather—but they absolutely love me. I suspect my dad wants me to do what will make me happy first and foremost, but I think my mom, though she wants the same, believes that success will bring me happiness. She’s not entirely wrong, in fairness. 

I also have a younger sister!! If I am a Snake primary, she is the one person right now who I’d call my inner circle. She’s not always the best person and I’ve sided against her when it’s come to some of her choices, but I know she’s trying and I truly don’t think there’s anything she could do to make me stop loving her. That’s not exactly a rousing endorsement I know, but deep down she really is the sweetest and loveliest person I know (I suspect Badger primary for her btw). I really am so lucky to have her as my sister and I know she feels the same, and for that reason I’m always slightly worried she’ll be bitter if she’s ever compared to me, and I don’t want that for her at all.

If there’s a need for glory, it’s coming from your primary and not your secondary. I don’t know 100% about your secondary, but with the evidence I have I’m going to say that Badger is most likely. You want approval, but you don’t want the spotlight. 

Anyway! Thank you so much for reading through all of this if/when you do, I hope it wasn’t too much to work with but was enough to glean an understanding of Me. I look forward to seeing what you have to say about it :)

I really, really enjoyed reading and going through this. 

[bruciemilf]

Bruce with tattoos for his birdies!! Jason's birthday on his heart, and death day on his back. A blue robin on his shoulder. Tim' adoption date on his index finger. ' C A S S ' in ASL, along his spine. Damian's first words on his arm, drawn with arab characters, on jasmine flowers. Just. Yeah.

[all-iridescent-birds]

Another pigeon, but domesticated and stunning, the archangel pigeon!

The archangel pigeon (Columba livia domestica) is a breed of domesticated pigeon in the "fancy" category, and one of the ones that are actually morally okay. Their plumage is striking: Black wings with green iridescence, and brown plumage pretty much everywhere else, with signature iridescence on the crop/neck which is pink colored! (However, it may vary. This is just the most popular variant, we believe) All domesticated pigeons, and fancy breeds for that matter all come from the very not domesticated bird, the rock dove, and eventually, the domesticated pigeons from older times became feral pigeons.

[thelongestway]

Sorting Log Horizon: Shiroe (Double Bird, Lion Primary model) and Kanami (Double Lion, Bird Primary model)

Shiroe of Log Horizon is a Double Bird. Kanami is a Double Lion. /endthread.

But really, let's get into some more details. Shiroe is the point of view character for most of Log Horizon. He's the rare main character who is essentially a support. The class he chose, Enchanter, is magically weak, and shines when others take advantage of its abilities... Sounds like a Badger? Nope. The reason Shiroe chose that class was that he identified that he had a problem with trusting others and decided to learn how to do that by putting himself in a position where he'd have to rely on others to succeed, and also in a position where he'd have to squeeze out every last advantage to win. And succeed he does--but not only through direct contribution, but through strategy. Shiroe is quick to observe patterns and is able to hold an insane amount of variables in his head, keeping up with the status effects of a 24-man raid on the fly at the same time as calculating boss mechanics. By being in a support position, he is ideally placed to have a Bird's eye view of the battlefield. At the same time, Shiroe has a hard time identifying his own goals. He's much better at executing than at goal-setting, at least until he's seen the situation. When left with no input, he flounders - until he can get that input. He also has a few, mostly Badger-related, hangups about the methods available to him. Before the show's official beginning, Shiroe's a loner who has few real friends and is generally wary of organized groups. When he started out, he joined an informal group, which avoided ranks and distinctions - and which also had the Double Lion Kanami as its leader. In the show, Kanami is initially mostly defined by her absence - but even that absence itself is defined by the way in which she determines goals and Charges, easily leading people in a distinctly Lion way. Kanami wants to clear the hardest raid? She's not joining established groups; she's getting people together and going. Kanami wants to move to Europe and have a kid? She switches tracks and does that, completely turning her life around. And when Kanami does finally show up again, she resolves the current struggle Shiroe has by simply saying "THIS is what I want", and giving him enough input to crystallize his strategy. Her internal moral compass is something that Shiroe lacks, and that he also consciously works on emulating. At the same time, Kanami also thinks back to Shiroe and his brilliance in execution when she needs to. She knows what she wants; she does not necessarily know how to get it - and she learns from him. Shiroe, in turn, learns from Kanami - and when the show starts, he is perfectly capable of staking out a place of his own, because he wants to, and is capable of holding a group together, even though he definitely finds it much, much easier to be in Strategist mode than in Leader mode. I'd say that these two model Lion and Bird Primaries respectively - and they model them off each other.

[reds-burrow]

How does a badger learn to say no without dehumanizing? I am a bird with a strong badger system that grew up in a family where saying "no" was taken as a personal offense. So i get anxiety ridden when i even consider saying no to someone. I might try to phrase it in a way where maybe i will say yes in some distant future. And saying no to someone for another person? Dear lord. Its just as stressful if not more so bc im just the messenger, but ill get the repercussions of the "no". Ugh!

Oh boy, can I relate. Saying no is hard, and if you have Badger Primary values it can feel like you're letting people down. You may feel uncomfortable or guilty. You may worry the other party may see you as selfish, difficult, or incompetent. You may worry that you'll hurt the other person's feelings or disappoint them. Or you may struggle in remembering your own needs and that you ability to help is a finite resource. And let's be clear here: these are not healthy Badger values. They are, in fact, Exploded Badger values. So, what can we do about it? First, I would examine why you have trouble saying no. In your case nonny, it sounds like you were trained from childhood to always expect a negative reaction to a "no." It's going to take practice to train your brain otherwise. Maybe try with a trusted friend or family member. Someone you know will continue to love you, even if you aren't at their beck and call.

It's okay to start small too. If a direct "no" is too much right now, try a offering the person an alternative. "I can't, but try asking so-and-so." It's okay to be polite and soften the denial, but be clear and firm that they need to look elsewhere for help. Being wishy-washy will only lead to confusion or irritation.

Given you're a Bird Primary, it should also help to re-frame your thinking. One of the most important things someone with a Badger system can learn and remember is that they count as a person too. Their time and effort is just as important as other people's. So, if the goal is to find a compromise that will hurt everyone the least, you need to take into account the toll that saying yes will take on you.

You have the right to boundaries in your relationships. Stand firm in the knowledge that doing what is right for you benefits everyone in the long-run. Having the freedom of "no" will keep you healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally. The alternative can lead to burn-out and resentment which is ultimately more of a detriment to your community. And if someone doesn't respect your "no," then they are showing that they don't respect you, and it may be time to distance yourself from those people.