#Queer infighting

[my-chemical-ratz]

im honestly really sick of people acting like trans men are basically the same as cis men. u really think trans men have societal power and are an oppressive class over trans and cis women?? u think we have male privilege just because we’re trans men?? yeah. definitely a thing. if we pass we automatically adopt all the privileges and power of a cis man forever and always. thats definitely the reality we live in.

trans men do not hold privilege over cis or trans women for being men. we have to fight daily for even a scrap of respect. passing and closeted people only experience privilege if they stay closeted.

like come the fuck on-- society doesnt give a shit if we’re men-- they see us as other. trans men, trans women, nonbinary people: we are all other. none of us are more accepted than the other. we are all “degenerates” in their eyes. sure, theres specific ways we might be treated, but the bottom line is: we’re gross we’re unnatural we’re dangerous we’re unwelcome. thats it.

it’s not misogynistic to say trans men face struggles because we are men who are trans. it’s not leaving out transfems, it’s not disregarding their experiences-- it actually may include them! point is, acting like trans men have societal power is really fucking stupid. its shitty and only erases our experiences.

infighting helps no one but the oppressors.

[ballsalsda]

"we need weirder queers" not in the hypocrite that cant handle xenos or mspec lesbians way but in the "we need people to be more confident and proud of their identity. We need people to not be afraid to identify how they like. We need people to not care what others think. We need more people okaye with others identifying as 'weird' identities. We need to make the queer community a safer space for weirdos.

We need people to feel safe and accepted for being themselves. Thats the entire goal of the queer community.

[coldgoldlazarus]

Like sorry if this is harsh or whatever but like, while I can understand suspicion and a damaged ability to trust after something like this...

When it gets to the point of "X group is made to suffer, and literally everyone else in the world is out to get us, even people who claim to support us will always throw us under the bus at the first chance" kind of rhetoric...

I'm just reminded of like, the american christian victim complex, the kinds of justifications given for Zionism, and the entire TERF mindset.

Know who your enemies are and how they work. But just as importantly, know who your allies are too. To treat everyone other as your enemy is a quick way to make new enemies you could have avoided; a self-fulfulling prophecy. And to slap away an offered branch because you mistook it for a spear, is the fastest way to drown in quicksand.

[intersexcat-tboy]

Perisex trans women: trans people have intersex brains :333 thoughts? I think we should discuss this.

Some other commentor: I think this is insensitive towards intersex people

Perisex trans woman: ummm actually, I, in my privileged position, don't think it's insensitive. Since I absolutely have a place to speak on what is or is not harmful to another minority I clearly have little education on

Me: you don't really get to say that unless you're intersex. It's already a big misconception

Perisex: ummm reality is I can say whatever I want. Don't be a gatekeeper

Me: this is the same as a cis person claiming something isn't transphobic.

Perisex: you sound like the transmed of the intersex community :///

Mind you, believing there to be a medical condition behind being trans is the definition of transmedicalism (which, if the brain sex theory is ran with, would further gatekeep trans people), and I'm the transmed gatekeeper? I had also linked three different studies discussing the harm and need for separation, w like three other intersex activism articles from leading orgs in another comment, which were very obviously ignored, so that's what the studies were about bud, or whatever.

There was some other comment by another trans women "I like the concept of putting ourselves under the intersex umbrella" like please. Have you ever thought to maybe listen to us instead of just speaking. Do you even hear yourself.

Trans intersex individuals trying to exist in the trans community: / (own place being: finding solidarity and community w intersex individuals) / (intersexist) perisex trans ppl then joining intersex communities

What do you think happens to intersex needs, rights, experiences, stories, fights and struggles when you flood the community (with a group whose activism is only similar in bodily autonomy, but otherwise is nearly opposite yours)?

We get diluted. Our activism gets erased. We become more invisible. This isn't the "intersex version of TERFs claiming trans woman erase women" bc 1 the definition of woman doesn't mention it being an innate variation. And 2, 49% of the population is female. It's a lot easier to erase less than 2% than it is 49%

From the Intersex Human Rights of Australia, "conflation of intersex with being transgender […] obscures the specific goals of the intersex human rights movement". Trans rights is the right to say yes, intersex rights are the right to say no. Studies have discussed how "there is a need group to only those with somatic intersex variations due to their distinct medical experiences". Others discuss how the researchers "learned that researching intersex issues with greater accuracy would focus on people who are intersex. It would require the aid of people with intersex variations themselves as research allies and advisors, to capitalise on 'insider/ outsider access dynamics emphasised by intersex researchers, in order to foster more direct exploration of people with intersex variations'" (aka, there aren't a whole lot and we need to focus on actually intersex individuals).

[dirkification]

So it's not that this exact discourse feels like hstwt 2019 all over again, but the vibes feel the same

Something bad happens to one or more popular trans fems and part of the wide outcry is to harness the increasing radfem hatred of queer men/mascs to have a marginalized scapegoat for transmisogyny

I can't go through this again y'all

Not on top of the irl stuff I'm dealing with

I'm blocking and unfollowing left and right to stop seeing it so sorry if any of y'all are caught in the crossfire

I can't sit here and watch my identity be blamed for the harm fellow trans people face and be mocked and derided as cringe and unimportant and unserious and whiny

Fellow queer people are not our opressors but individuals can be real fucking shitty to each other anyway, epsecially if radfem rhetoric is poisoning the well

[orionsangel86]

So, I'm not in the Good Omens fandom, but having seen the "controversy" over a potential sex scene (or even confirmation of a sexual relationship) and it's striking me that the "asexuals vs. other queer identities" thing used by fandom puritains is LITERALLY the classic "divide and conquer" tactic used to prevent effective unity among minorities since time immemorial. By making the different letters of the rainbow alphabet fight each other, they can never unite enough to get ANY rep, and the fandom puritains are basically doing exactly what status-quo loving studios want.

Yeah this 100%.

I may have calmed down on the salty rage after getting a good nights sleep, but if there is one thing I really can't stand its the incessant infiltration of queer spaces by puritans.

I wish more people could see that the rhetoric they are parroting around the echo chamber is just anti sex puritanical conservative bullshit and not the "call for ace representation" that they think it is.

It is very much an attempt to divide the community and turn sex positive queer folk and asexual people against each other (when actually they are the same people).

Asexuality is simply a lack of sexual attraction, it is not a complete disgust and repulsion of all things sexual to the point that you must ban the entire internet for daring to think of the word sex!

Whats so funny about this is that I am totally on board with the ace Aziracrow headcanon, but these people are claiming META ANALYSIS that might indicate any hint towards sexual desire or an interest in sex between them is somehow gross and aphobic.

I dont even think Aziracrow will be having sex in s3. Its unlikely. But if they do drop a few jokes and hints about the possibility, the last thing we need is a fandom full of puritans blowing up acting like its the end of the world because two male presenting beings might have possibly fucked.

Once you peel back the layers it does end up just looking like your run of the mill conservative christian homophobia. Fandoms must become more skilled at recognising the signs of puritanical infiltration and must start fighting back and thinking for themselves rather than following the crowd because it seems like they are "supporting ace people".

Honestly I'm tired. I've been calling out this bullshit for 8 years in fandom. It only seems to have got worse.

[sweaty-confetti]

whenever i see queer infighting and people playing oppression olympics going on - you’re x, i’m y, we are completely different, you don’t have it as bad as i do - i think about this section from drag king dreams by leslie feinberg and wish more people read it.

“That one simple question Vickie asked me just before her death led me to feel connected to this past. To see how it shapes my present. I’m lost until I figure out where I live in relation to others. “But my relationship to Vickie, that was hard for me to figure out. Vickie was the kind of person other people just couldn’t help but respect. She was so principled. So clear in her political vision. I loved that about her. And I loved her as a friend. But deep down, I never felt a connection with her as a cross-dresser. “Which you might think would be the most obvious.” I look down at my own suit and tie, “because so am I. “But Vickie and I weren’t the same kind of cross-dressers. She was fluent in two gendered languages. That’s how she conveyed who she was. But this is the only way I articulate who I am.” Estelle nods, head still down. I take a deep breath. “I regret my last interaction with Vickie. I saw her going home to a good job, to someone who adored her.” Estelle looks up at me, yearning for more information, her hands tightly clasped in her on her lap. “And in that instant, jealousy flared up in me because I thought that she could just take off her wig and her dress and move through the world another way—a way I thought of as closeted. But it takes two pronouns to even approximate Vickie’s life. And she wasn’t just half and half of anything. She was trying to be understood for the whole of who she was. “Now I wish that Vickie could ask me again, once more, where I live. I would tell her: I live at the intersection of oppression. And you and I were neighbors. The same sky above us. The same earth. The same red blood, metallic tasting on our tongues. You lived under the sun. I live under the moon. I was sometimes envious that you could walk in the daylight, welcomed by smiling strangers. And I wasn’t a very good neighbor sometimes. For that, I am truly sorry, Vickie. “My aunt Raisa taught me an old Sephardic Jewish proverb: Dime con quien conoscas, te dire quien sois—Tell me who you know; I’ll tell you who you are.” My voice cracks. “I knew Vickie.”

[bisexualseraphim]

Friendly reminder that for bi/pan/omni/polysexual people, being attracted to the ‘opposite’ gender is still part of their queerness. Their ‘same-sex’ attraction isn’t their ‘queer side,’ everything about their attraction is queer. It is not ‘fair game’ to make fun of an M-spec person’s ‘straight side’ because nothing about them is straight.*

This especially goes out to those who make fun of or are disgusted by M-spec women — their attraction to men is not dirty or lesser than their attraction to women. Suggesting so is first of all just cruel to men for no reason, misogynistic, and yes, biphobic. Biphobia isn’t just disgust for the fact the person experiences ‘same-sex’ attraction, it goes the other way too because an M-spec woman’s attraction to men is also an inherent part of her queer identity.

It is not ‘a shame’ that she’s into men, it’s a shame that you as a queer person feel the need to share your contempt for another queer person merely because their identity doesn’t fit into the box of what you think ‘queer’ should be — when being queer is about not following the rules in the first place. Unlearn your biphobia.

[maremote]

i see black sails on a poll i black out and vote for it its just muscle memory. hashtag flint sweep i don't know what we're winning but i think we should win

[rabbitheartdaydream]

Queer infighting is so not necessary, I don’t know why you’re still doing this. I don’t understand why we can’t work together to make a difference in this crumbling fucking shell of a society. Stop trying to blame other queer people for existing, stop finding reasons to hate identities you don’t understand. Stop calling each other names for the same reasons you’ve been called the names by the non-queer people or even other queer people. This whole thing is bullshit and I just want to not have visibly queer couples glaring at me on the bus because me and my girlfriend aren’t the kind of gays they want around. I’m tired of coming on here and seeing the same thing. I’m tired of queers of every gender, every identity under the rainbow and then some spewing vile things at each other because why? BECAUSE WHY? You were so passionate to fight for your own rights to love who you love. How dare you try to stop other queer people trying to love their loves. Until you learn to leave your cruelty at the door none of us deserve to come out of the closet, we have to be better, you have to be better.

[dirkification]

I can't get more involved in the dungeon meshi fandom than watching it and seeing posts on my dash

I've heard whispers of wlw vs mlm ship discourse and if I come across it myself I will explode

I really like Falin/Marcille but that sort of discourse makes me resent wlw ships and I don't want it to taint this for me

I like boys! I tend to ship boys more than girls! But these girls are so good and so gay for each other I don't want anyone being weird about them or the boys 😭

[adhbabey]

Queer infighting isn't innocent misunderstandings, its lateral aggression towards members of your damn community. The pushback against mogai, lesser known and complicated identities is actually super fucked up and you should be upset. Regardless if it's other queer people pushing that narrative. Regardless if it's pushback against more well-known identities. It's still bigotry, regardless if you're queer or not.