#Robin Steph Arc

[mzminola]

If we find some other way for War Games to kick off (or just...not have that arc, idk), I think my ideal end for the Robin!Steph arc would be for her, not to fuck up and get fired, but decide, on her own, that she prefers being Spoiler.

What she wanted was training, respect, and (ugh, DC, why?) to get back at Tim for the misconception that he cheated on her. The first two don't require being Robin (Bruce gave her a smidge during the Brentwood arc) and the third can be resolved through communication, or if we really want some interesting character growth, Steph confronting her own vindictiveness, wrestling with whether she cares more about Getting Revenge or Helping People.

Actually, that could tie back into her intro and subsequent early appearances pretty well? She became Spoiler to get back at her dad, but later shows up solving crimes in the suburbs pointing out that the Bats tend to focus on the main island city. She also wants to impress her crush, but moves away from that impetus over time. So deciding, "I built Spoiler into something more than revenge, and I want to keep building Spoiler, not get mired back in revenge as Robin," would be some growth.

So yeah, wrap up with Robin!Steph arc by her showing up at the Batcave in her Spoiler suit, mirroring how she first showed up in her handmade Robin suit, and tell Bruce she wants to split time patrolling the suburbs like she used to, and patrolling the city with him for more training. That being Robin was an honor, but she's Spoiler, and she's proud to be Spoiler.

This could be a kick in the pants for Bruce; by reclaiming Spoiler and laying down new terms of partnership, letting go of her grudge against Tim, she's acting more mature than Bruce (who it's implied made her Robin in an attempt to lure Tim back). Maybe this sparks him to reassess how he's handling the Jack situation and Tim's absence, reaching out in their civilian lives or otherwise doing something direct to maintain that important relationship.

[horsechestnut]

The dichotomy between Jason dying because he disobeyed Batman and Stephanie dying specifically because she was trying to follow his rules is so good, and yet so under utilized.

[lemonlimestar]

stephanie brown & “caesar on a tv screen” by the last dinner party

[the-fairy-tree]

the bat & the bird

[casscainmainly]

can you dive more into bruce’s dislike of cass’ femininity?

Sure!! To preface this, gender and Cass is a really nuanced topic that has a lot of interpretations, all equally valid. This is just my own interpretation, and is mainly situated in early Batgirl (2000). I also recommend reading my gender and sexuality posts for Cass' persepctive on her relationship with gender. But since I've gotten a couple questions about it, I'll cover specifically Bruce's evolving opinions on Cass' gender here.

Beginning

From Batgirl #1, Puckett establishes Bruce's view of Cass: she is like him. Both Barbara and Bruce (and Cass herself) acknowledge this, and it allows Bruce to understand Cass in a way Babs doesn't. This isn't gendered yet, but the seed (that Horrocks will pull on) is there - Bruce closely associates Cass with himself, meaning he focuses on the ways they're similar and ignores the ways they're different.

This similarity is comforting not just for Bruce, but for Cass as well. They are equals - they have similar fighting abilities, philosophies against killing, ways of expressing themselves, etc. She doesn't have to hold back, not with him. Both of them wanted her to be 'like him'.

Bruce does not want Cass being taken "away from [him]". "You want me to think she's like you," he tells David Cain in #5. His biggest fear is Cass being like someone else, and not like him.

The Threat of Stephanie Brown

This recurring motto - 'you're not like them, you're like me' - crops up again when Bruce talks about Stephanie in #38. I've discussed how this makes Cass think she lacks something in femininity, but for Bruce this is him drawing a line between Steph and Cass. Steph is a 'girl', treated like one by Bruce: incompetent, not to be taken seriously, belittled. But because Cass is 'like Bruce,' she can "never" be like Stephanie. Cass being like Stephanie challenges not only Bruce's views of both women, but also his own highly cherished belief that him and Cass are the same.

Steph's feminine presence threatens Bruce and Cass' relationship, kicking off a series of issues where Bruce desperately tries to suppress Cass' gender and sexuality.

Vacation

When Cass encounters Tai'Darshan (a boy love interest) and lets him go, Bruce agrees to send Babs and Cass on a vacation. His motivations are extremely murky: Babs implies it was a set-up to get Cass into action again (justified by a panel of Bruce evilly smirking), but a panel right after has Bruce looking sad:

From #40: "You don't really give a damn about Cassandra, do you?" The juxtaposition between these two panels - one with Bruce (sans mask) smirking, and the other with Batman brooding - suggests he does care about Cass, but he struggles with how. For the first time he's realising that Cass isn't like him, that she's a girl with all that girlhood entails, and it frightens him. The cowl (Batgirl) allows him to ignore what's underneath, but Cass is coming through more and more.

But when Babs mentions Kon, the struggle goes out the window.

Thi anger is funny in a girldad way, but it goes to show how much he cannot stand the thought of Cass exploring her sexuality. It's not just that he doesn't want his little girl to date - it's that somehow, Cass embodying her girlhood will separate her from him forever.

Loss

Babs explicitly points out Bruce's feelings in #42. Though she couches it in non-gendered terms ("school, a job"), it's no coincidence that it's specifically a gendered thing - "falling in love" (with a boy, Kon and/or Tai) - that Bruce is reacting to. So far Bruce has threatened Cass away from Stephanie (her first female friend), Tai/Kon (love interests), and has repeatedly expressed dissatisfaction in Babs (Cass' mother figure). He tries to limit any relationships that allow Cass either feminine solidarity or expressions of her femininity.

Bruce sees girl!Cass as fundamentally opposed to Batgirl!Cass. Batgirl is like him - Cass is not. She's "distracted. Unfocused. Unreliable..." That last adjective is super interesting, because it frames Cass' explorations of gender as an insult against him. Cass becoming more girl-like is making her "unreliable" to Bruce, making her harder to trust.

"If you've got better things to do than being Batgirl, Cass, just say so." This can be read as an ultimatum, but also as a genuine question. He's asking if she wants to be like him (Batgirl), or go her own way (Cass). When she picks Batgirl, he tells her "no more trips to Kansas." To be like him, she must give up her explorations of gender/sexuality.

Firing

In the aftermath of a trip to Tai's hometown (during which he dies), Cass grows increasingly distant to Bruce.

Bruce finally realises that Cass is not like him - that her differences, most vitally expressed in her girlhood, means she needs something different from him. "She no longer tells us what she's doing..." Bruce still associates Cass exploring her gender as disloyalty to him and his symbol, but this time he acknowledges that maybe that disloyalty is a good thing.

Then we have maybe the most interesting part:

Bruce's "I wouldn't know" is a response to Babs' second dialogue, but it's interesting to read his words as also a response to the first. Because Bruce wouldn't know what it's like to give into hormones, to "have sex, take wild risks, misbehave". Of course he's had sex, but his life is so consumed by his mission that Bruce has limited opportunities to explore his gender. In a way, Bruce's repression of Cass' femininity reflects his repression of his own gender exploration.

The Fight

In #50, Cass and Bruce get into a fight, during which Babs questions whether Cass is trying to "kill" or "kiss" Bruce. In the broader context of their gender struggles, this fight is the culmination of Cass and Bruce figuring out their gender expressions and sexualities. I'm reading this not as a romantic kiss, but as a symbol of sexual release - of defying sexual and gendered repression.

Bruce finally explicitly asks Cass who's she loyal to, and Cass points to the Bat. For Bruce, this choice symbolises that Cass is still loyal to Batgirl/Batman, but also her own person; he finally understands how Cass is like him, but also unlike him, and that her (gender) difference doesn't make her any less able to wear the symbol.

This fight is often analysed from Cass' perspective, but it was clearly important to Bruce, too. It was the turning point in his treatment and understanding of Cass - after this point, their relationship never hits the same lows again, and Bruce starts treating her like her own person (cultiminating in the Batgirl (2008) adoption). In Gabrych's run, Bruce leaves Cass alone and doesn't stop her from searching for Shiva, a huge difference from the way he previously handled her feminine relationships and soul-searching.

Ending

So I guess to say Bruce hated Cass' femininity (which I wrote in a previous post) is an oversimplification; it's not purely misogyny (though that was a part of it), but his longing for her to be exactly like him that caused him to try to repress her gender/sexuality. Her femininity was a marker of difference, a sign she was not completely subsumed in him and his symbol. However, Horrocks' run also shows how Bruce changes and grows, learning to accept Cass as his wonderful daughter.

I hope that answers your question!!

[tastycitrus]

there's an alternate timeline where the new 52 reboot kept all three batgirls but retconned all the robins except for dick, who went back to being robin with nightwing banned from being mentioned at all

[little-flame-prince]

Bro you play table top rpgs and own the Buffy the Vampire Slayer DVD box set and quote Monty Python on missions and make video game analogies constantly you are LYING to Steph to seem cool you are a GIANT FUCKING NERD just admit that you love the shitty scifi movies cmon man

[ithinkineedasideblognow]

DAMIAN 

(Again, if you have ideas, I am SO OPEN to them!! I am starved for community interaction actually. My fault 100% but still.)

Damian is dropped onto Bruce's doorstep for pretty much the same reason as in canon. Bruce is, at this point, 28, and Damian is 9, and Duke is 25 as previously established.

At the start, he was furious with batman for allowing signal to fight by his side for gotham, as he was not family. (though I suppose you could regard him as the kind of family friend that would be an uncle-figure). So Damian naturally tries to kill him. He doesn't want to become the signal, because he was trained to fight during the night, he just doesn't think he's worthy.

Duke, of course, hates this. He and bruce have an argument about it, eventually resulting in a 'I won't come around while he's still trying to KILL me' and bruce having his Lonely Arc. Bruce sees Damian as a threat that needs to be tamed, and initially refuses to let him out with him at all, but Damian escapes the manor and follows him during patrol, demanding to go with him, and almost kills a man.

Bruce is furious, and I have one plan of a "How do you expect me to train you when you do this?!" pointing to a half-dead man. Eventually Bruce just lets him become his sidekick--and it IS sidekick, not partner--because he can keep an eye better on him that way.

So, Damian becomes Batboy, first of his kind, intending to eventually become Batman. Batboy is essentially a mini-batman, and people stopped underestimating him after the fourth mutilated limb. No matter how hard bruce tries to drill it into him, since he has zero patience for damian, the lessons never stick.

Now, sometime during the first year of his batboy reign, he sneaks out to assassinate the Signal. Gotham doesn't need a daytime protector, it has batman! And signal is pissed, but easily fights him off, between the bat training and powers. Some villain shows up and they're forced to work together--and then, Damian is forced to begrudgingly admit that Duke is competent. Not worthy, but competent, and needed, because he knows atp the police are wack. He stops trying to kill duke, and duke starts coming back to the manor, mending things with Bruce--basically, I'm setting the stage for duke to train damian in the empathy department successfully, along with teaching him some Street Moves he can use to get out of sticky situations.

Their dynamic isn't quite what dick and damian have, in canon. It's more of an uncle-nephew situation, and duke does encourage the childish things Bruce doesn't, though Bruce doesn't shut him down when he does indulge in those kinds of things, enabling his animal interest and the zoo comes in early. And Duke just doesn't have the same fatherly responsibility over him so generally they get up to more Shenanigans.

When he's 15, batman discovers he's been skipping school to volunteer and is actually glad over it like he SHOULD HAVE BEEN-- and signal just laughs his ass off because only he would skip school to volunteer instead of, like, doing drugs.

This is also when he meets Jon, during a world-ending event that forced both superman and batman to take their kids with them. They don't really form a team, per se, but they do become best friends, often patrolling with each-other, and while duke taught him mercy, Jon taught him how to love something deeply--again, since duke's more of an uncle, and batman when he's trying, esp with such a difficult kid, is still distant. He often has drinks with signal and laments about damian, actually.

Damian quits Batboy when he graduates high-school at 18, going to college and becoming a doctor, eventually mentoring under Leslie and taking over her practice when she gets too old to run it. The bats send victims over to him to take care of, and he does it all bro bono, cus he's a trust fund baby and genuinely cares about gotham by that point. Though! I will say, he isn't very good at the whole comforting thing, never getting the hang of it because bruce sucks at it and the signal was more focused on making him less stabby.

I say quit because I feel like he'd enjoy using his hands to heal rather than hurt, and being Batboy would start to suffocate him, because while he does help he also hurts. He likes the idea of taking an oath to treat everyone--likes the idea of second chances, because he was given one after killing so many people. It's kind of like atonement.

Part 1, Part 3 (TBD)

[leoleolovesdc]

OK HEAR ME OUT. HEAR. ME. OUT.

AU where Steph and Jason joined forces to beat the shit outta Tim on titans tower:

Steph was also dead (according to a retcom that I heavily dislike she was always alive, but still) and returned to comics roughly two years after Jason, so since comics timelines are disproportionate from IRL time we technically could mashup those two “back from the grave” events on around the same time and have a situation where Jason hears from Talia that after Tim Drake there was another Robin that died and he is intrigued. He does a little digging and finds out that Stephanie is in fact alive and hiding. In this AU Steph may either have actually died and been somehow ressurected, been in a coma for a while or just have had her death faked by Leslie without her consent, regardless, Jason finds Stephanie who is also mad to learn she was forgotten by the people she thought had brought her in and after hearing that her predecessor’s plans include ruining Black Mask’s empire, forcing Bruce to confront his code and beating the shit out of Tim she is all in.

[mattiebluebird]

Case fic AU of Duke's training year centered around his identity as Signal (big hero, works for/with Batman, above everyone else) vs. Lark (friendly neighborhood hero, fights for the little guy, does things his own way) told as he & the WAR crew investigate a strange new drug that gives people meta abilities, with several B-plots of the other Robins becoming heroes in their own right. Is that anything.

[horsechestnut]

Bruce leaving Steph in a house with her abuser and the fucking Riddler for at least two months because he was using her as a spy to get them on a bigger bust vs. Dinah breaking down the door the second she finds out Steph is in an unsafe environment sure is something.

[bobbinalong]

i wish i was a batman fan, he gets so many comics that every once in a while, something HAS to be good. alas lmao.

[welcometogrouchland]

Been gone for a hot second helping out over at the DCtwt gatcha for gaza event (first three pieces! Extremely proud of that aquaman) so haven't had much time to do art outside that but here's some crumbs!

[starcrossedconverse]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to point this out. Bruce, you bastard.

Robin 126 and Batman 663 respectively

[tjmsteph]

from mother to daughter.

steph is braiding her daughter’s hair, humming the music coming from the radio and suddenly she is 9 again, and her mother is gently brushing her hair, she is loved and now she is giving that love to another daughter who will cherish it and give it to her own. her daughter's blonde hair tangled on her finger and she is trying as hard as she can to make it not too painful, shes got new hair ties and colorful hairpins. her daughter is gonna look so pretty.

steph is treating her child’s bruises after she fell from the bike, her first time getting hurt, and suddenly she is 5 again, her mother is putting bandages on her arm, arthur was piss drunk that night. she is kissing every bruise and suddenly it doesnt hurt anymore. crystal sang a melody every time steph got hurt as the ice pack brushed over the scratched skin, making her jolt. it felt nice after a few minutes, almost like surviving the sting was a reward. like a badge of honor. but her daughter was not to endure that. she already knew she was strong. she didnt need to prove it like her mother did.

steph is scolding her daughter after getting in trouble, trying to help a friend, and she can see a pout on her face because she knows she is just as disappointed as steph is, and suddenly she is 15 again and her mother just found her spoiler costume and she wants to be mad but she cant. she gets it. she gets her desire to prove herself but she knows she can do better. she just cant figure out what would that be. how could she be better than being herself? than be a hero?

steph is taking her daughter to visit her mother and crystal sees it as clear as water that theres no trait of dean on her granddaughter’s face, that she is all steph, the same smile, the same eyes but fewer bruises on her body. steph’s daughter was safe, better than steph had ever been. but she never blamed crystal, tho the latter blamed herself plenty. because as much pain and bruise to share, there were many more braids to make, bruises to mend. so much love yet left to be taught.

from mother to daughter.

[teleportationmagic]

read batgirl 2009

I have read Batgirl 2009. I have reread Batgirl 2009. I am currently on my third reread of Batgirl 2009. It's very dear to me as the book that essentially got me to actually check out comics more broadly, and it occupies wayyyyyy too much of my brainspace at any given moment - hell I've written fic about it!

However, while it makes motions towards being a coming of age story - the biggest way probably being in settling Steph's relationships with the Batfamily more broadly and Tim and Bruce more specifically, there's not really as much exploration of Steph as I'd like - for example, where does she go after this? What does she want now? Who does she want to be? Batgirl for her is well, seeing something through. It's a promise she can't leave unfulfilled, and a chance to be more than what she was, but that's not... that's not an identity. That's a chance to explore what her identity could be, unhindered by other's expectations of her failure and her own desperation. And I think while it was going in that direction and might have gotten there if it had more time, it just... couldn't, cause the universe went boom. So we get to see threads of it, like her lean into hope as a part of her motivation, but there's just not enough.

(Every day I weep that we couldn't get to the angstier year 3. Ah well)