#SOME M/F SHIPS ARE GAY AND THIS IS ONE OF THEM

[m-for-musings]

IMAGES FORBIDDEN IN 236 COUNTRIES

[mishtershpock]

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[austin-friars]

maybe controversial opinion...at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to write the tropes they want. That said, as a queer person, the trope that annoys me the most is the same gender relationship (i.e f/f or m/m) being written as something so toxic, and so unhealthy and at the very end, the guy or girl gets with someone of the opposite gender and suddenly, it's healing. suddenly, it's better. bonus points if you can't actually tell if the mc is actually queer, because their same gender relationship was filled with so much toxicity, abuse, etc., that you don't even know if they were in that relationship willingly. but of course, when they get in a m/f relationship, everything is fine. this isn't me acting like same gender relationship are inherently better or more healthy. a lot of them are toxic, and abusive irl, and literature is free to reflect that. but there is nothing that makes m/f relationships healthier either, but they are usually assumed to be so.

maybe it's because as i'm writing a lot of my very queer literature, i've been reflecting on queer media i've been forced to read and much of it consists of toxic m/m or f/f relationships, whereas the saving grace is a m/f relationship at the end. women being abused by other women, and being cheated on, men being abused by other men and having to escape their relationship, and at the end of the day, it's the wonderful person from the opposite sex that saves them from that dark part in their life.

idk, i just wish that when people did stuff like that, if it's to be marketed as same gender, there is at least some notion that the end game isn't going to be same gender. i would read a lot less stories if i was warned. and i do wonder what this notion is to go out of ones way to constantly portray same gender relationships as torturous and just inherently toxic, whereas in contrast, opposite gender relationships, are portrayed as liberating and free. i understand that some people enjoy that, and each to their own, i just never did.

i also don't mind toxic, dark themes in queer ships - like at all. sometimes, my work covers incredibly dark, toxic themes that I love to explore. But that's not all i write, and if I do have the person eventually leaving that relationship, they don't find safety with someone of the opposite gender, I make sure they have a chance to actually live a happy life with someone of the same gender.

obviously, this is how i see things. if you're going to try and get mad, then don't because this is just my opinion.

[maddy-ferguson]

i kinda have never seen the appeal of bi4bi ships like i get why people like it in theory but whenever it happens (and it happens so rarely the only two times i've seen it like canonically it was fangs and toni in riverdale which..was the most boring couple ever and big red and ahslyn in hsmtmts and like. the biphobia allegations the writers got for the way they wrote big red in s4 were kinda deserved and for me to be saying that it has to be bad. like it was just weird. but anyway just not ships i care about and them being bi didn't change anything at all in their relationship) they're portrayed exactly like any other m/f ship so it's like. it's nice to have characters who aren't straight for sure but if their queerness isn't gonna add anything to the relationship i would rather have a gay couple😭

[hua-fei-hua]

as soon as it's summer and i'm medicated again i NEED to write a series of essays covering my experiences switching from the broader social sphere of fandom which predominantly ships m/f ships to the social sphere of fandom which predominantly ships m/m, because i feel like a lot of what we say about the other social sphere is simultaneously true and false at the same time, and i've literally never seen anyone talk about it ever

[nellasbookplanet]

Book recs: Queer science fiction, part 1

There is a lot of queer sf out there, and I read a lot of sf. When I started working on this list, I quickly realized it was impossible to include all that I've read and enjoyed in one single rec post. Thus, this is the first of so far three queer sci-fi book rec posts.

A note: queer here does not necessarily mean "guarantee of an f/f or m/m ship with a happy ending", but rather simply a significant presence of queerness. Some of the books feature no romance but has a same gender attracted/trans/a-spectrum lead, or features an m/f relationship with bisexual, trans or aro/ace characters, or simply features a world-building which is heavily queer inclusive in ways that don't always compare to our own ideas of sexuality and gender. I have however disqualified works where the only queer presence is along the lines of "gay best friend" or a blink and you'll miss it confirmation that never comes up again.

Previous book rec posts:

Really cool fantasy worldbuilding, really cool sci-fi worldbuilding, dark sapphic romances, mermaid books, vampire books, many worlds: portal fantasies, many worlds: alternate timelines, robots and artificial intelligences, post- and transhumanism, alien intelligences

For more details on the books, continue under the readmore. Titles marked with * are my personal favorites. And as always, feel free to share your own recs in the notes!

The Light Brigade by Kameron Hurley*

Dietz is a soldier in the war between Earth and Mars - to travel to the battle front, she and her fellow soldiers are broken down into light to be able to quickly travel across space. But something keeps going wrong with Dietz's travels; her memories don't match up with the mission briefs, as she experiences time itself turning in on itself. Is she going mad? Or are the things she's learning skipping through time the truth - and the war that's stealing her life the lie? A mindfuck of a book that's scathing in its critique of fascism and war. Features a sapphic lead but no romance.

A Psalm for the Wild-Built (Monk and Robot duology) by Becky Chambers

Novella. Long ago, robots, upon gaining sentience, simply laid down their work and walked into the wilderness. Long after, a tea monk looking for purpose follows after them into the wilds, where they come across one of the robots seeking its own sort of answers. While not plotless, this story focuses more on character and vibes over plot. Also has a nonbinary main character and features conversations on gender between human and robot.

Meet Me In Another Life by Catriona Silvey*

Thora and Santi are strangers, brought together by a coincidence and torn apart just as abruptly when tragedy strikes. But this is neither the first nor the last time they meet - again and again they encounter each other, as friends, lovers, enemies, family, every time recognizing in each other a familiarity no one else carries. But with every new life, a mysterious danger grows ever closer, forcing them to find out the truth of their connection. This is a puzzle-box of a story that goes some entirely unexpected places in a very wild ride, featuring a bisexual co-lead.

The Archive Undying (The Downworld Sequence) by Emma Mieko Candon

In a world where AI gods sometimes lose their minds and take entire populations down with them, Sunai was the only survivor when his god went down. In the 17 years since, he has wandered on his own, unable to either die or age, drowning his sorrows in drink and men. But his attempts to flee his past comes to a stop as he is forced back into the struggle between man and machine. Featuring some pretty wild world building and narrative techniques, this book will definitely confuse you, but it is worth the experience.

The Paradox Hotel by Rob Hart

January Cole works security at the Paradox Hotel, last stop for tourists heading for the timeport, which allows them to travel to and witness any moment in time. But years of proximity to the timeport has left its damage on January, making her unstuck in time, letting her relive memories of her dead lover even as her sanity slips away bit by bit. As she starts witnessing proof of a horrible crime in the hotel that no one else can see, January must race against her own mind, a killer, and time itself to solve it before it's too late.

A Fractured Infinity by Nathan Tavares

Hayes Figueiredo is a struggling film-maker who wants to finish his documentary, whose life gets turned upside down when handsome physicist Yusuf Hassan enters his life, claiming an alternate version of him is a great inventor who’s sent a mysterious device to their universe. As Hayes gets drawn deeper into the conspiracy - and his feelings for Yusuf intensify - he has to decide just how far he’s prepared to go to win the life and the love he wants. Featuring a very gay and very morally dubious lead, this is a creative and strange read.

Bridge by Lauren Beukes

When she was little, Bridge and her mother Jo used to play a game - one where they traveled to other worlds, inhabiting the bodies of their other selves. Now Jo is dead, and as Bridge is cleaning out her apartment she finds a strange device: a dreamworm, the very thing that supposedly makes inter-dimensional travel possible. Suddenly faced with the possibility that multiverse travel is real, Bridge is struck by a different question: could her mother still be alive? Scifi spiced with a healthy dose of body horror and some absolutely wild twists, Bridge also features a bisexual lead (however this is a blink and you’ll miss it moment) and a nonbinary co-narrator.

The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet (Wayfarers series) by Becky Chambers

Rosemary Harper just got a job on the motley crew of the Wayfarer, a spaceship that works with tunneling new wormholes through space. With a past she wants to leave behind, Rosemary is happy to travel the far reaches of the universe with the chaotic crew, but when they land the job of a life time, things suddenly get a lot more dangerous. A bit of a tumblr classic in its day, this is a cozy space opera with an episodic feel and vividly realized characters and cultures. While pretty light on romance and focusing found family, there is a main f/f relationship.

An Unkindness of Ghosts by Rivers Solomon

Life on the lower decks of the generation ship HSS Matilda is hard for Aster, an outcast even among outcasts, trying to survive in a system not dissimilar to the old antebellum South. The ship's leaders have imposed harsh restrictions on their darker skinned people, using them as an oppressed work force as they travel toward their supposed Promised Land. But as Aster finds a link between the death of the ship's sovereign and the suicide of her own mother, she realizes there may be a way off the ship.

Ninefox Gambit (The Machineries of Empire trilogy) by Yoon Ha Lee*

Military space opera where belief and culture shape the laws of reality, causing all kinds of atrocities as empires do everything in their power to force as many people as possible to conform to their way of life to strengthen their technology and weapons. It’s also very queer, with gay, lesbian and trans major characters, albeit little to no romance.

The Left Hand of Darkness (Hainish Cycle) by Ursula K. Le Guin

1969 classic. Genly Ai is an emissary sent to the planet of Winter, meant to help facilitate Winter's inclusion in a growing intergalactic civilization. But he's unprepared for Winter's citizens, who spend much of their time genderless or switching between genders, making for a culture wildly different from that Genly is used to.

Too Like the Lightning (Terra Ignota series) by Ada Palmer*

Centuries in the future, humanity has deliberatly engineered society to be as utopian as possible, politically, socially, sexually, religiously. Written in an enlightenment style and featuring questions of human nature and whether it’s possible to change it, and what price we’re prepared to pay for peace, this book is simultaneously very heavy and very funny, and written in a very unique style. While still human, the society presented often feels starkly alien.

The Stars Are Legion by Kameron Hurley

This book fucked me up when I read it. It’s weird, it’s gross, there’s So Much Viscera, there are literally no men, it has living spaceships and biotech but in the most horrific way imaginable. Had I to categorize it I would call it grimdark military sf. It’s an experience but not necessarily a pleasant one.

The Luminous Dead by Caitlin Starling*

Possibly one of the most unsettling books I’ve ever read, and definitely the most claustrophobic. Gyre, a caver on an alien planet, ventures into the dark and dangerous underground, guided only by a woman who has no compunctions on using and manipulating Gyre as she sees fit to obtain her secretive goals down in the caves.

Escaping Exodus (Escaping Exodus series) by Nicky Drayden

While my feelings on Escaping Exodus were mixed, it cannot be denied that the dynamic between the two leads and the way they go from childhood best friends to enemies on different sides of a class and power struggle is very delicious. It also features some really cool worldbuilding of living, alien generation spaceships and the human culture that has developed inside them.

The Doors of Eden by Adrian Tchaikovsky*

The Doors of Eden is something of an experiment in speculative biology, featuring versions of Earth in which various different species were the one to rise to sentience, from dinosaurs to neanderthals. Now, something is threatening the existence of all timelines, dragging multiple different people and species into the struggle, among those a pair of cryptid hunting girlfriends and a transgender scientist.

Ascension by Jacqueline Koyanagi

Ascension follows Alana Quick, an expert Sky Surgeon who stows away on a spaceship in hopes of landing herself a job. But the ship and its crew are in deeper waters than she expected, facing threats emerging from a whole other universe, all of them searching for the same person: Alana’s spiritually enlightened sister. Undeniably a bit of an odd read, Ascension is also very creative and features polyamorous lesbian relationship.

Contagion (Contagion duology) by Erin Bowman*

Young adult. After receiving an SOS, a small crew is sent on a standard search-and-rescue mission. But what they find are not survivors awaiting help, but an abandoned site, full of dead bodies and crawling with something... monstrous. No romance, but features one sapphic co-lead and one who can easily be read as demisexual (however this doesn't show up until book two, which has more romance).

A Memory Called Empire (Texicalaan duology) by Arkady Martine

Mahit Dzmare is an ambassador sent to the center of the multi-system Teixcalaanli Empire, where she discovers that her predecessor has died. Trying to protect her home, an independent mining station, from being taken over by the empire, Mahit struggles to find out the truth of her predecessor's death while carrying the voice of his ghost in her head, guiding her as best he can. Light on the romance but does feature a sapphic relationship.

The Outside (The Outside trilogy) by Ada Hoffman*

AKA the book the put me in an existenial crisis. Souls are real, and they are used to feed AI gods in this lovecraftian inspired scifi where reality is warped and artifical gods stand against real, unfathomable ones. Autistic scientist Yasira is accused of heresy and, to save her eternal soul, is recruited by post-human cybernetic ‘angels’ to help hunt down her own former mentor, who is threatening to tear reality itself apart. Sapphic main character.

Dawn (Xenogenesis trilogy) by Octavia E. Butler*

After a devestating war leaves humanity on the brink of extinction, survivor Lilith finds herself waking up naked and alone in a strange room. She’s been rescued by the Oankali, who have arrived just in time to save the human race. But there’s a price to survival, and it might be humanity itself. Absolutely fucked up I love it I once had to drop the book mid read to stare at the ceiling and exclaim in horror at what was going on. Queer in the sense that the Oankali doesn't follow human ideas of gender and relationships, which is mirrored in their romantic relationships with humans. It is, however, pretty dark, with examinations of agency and consent, so enter with caution.

Remnant by Kate Genet

One day, Cass wakes up and finds everyone else is gone. Not dead, just gone, leaving her in a world which nature starts taking back with a dangerous, unnatural speed. But as she tries to survive this new normal, Cass realizes she may not be alone after all - but who else is out there, and are they a threat?

The Scorpion Rules (Prisoners of Peace duology) by Erin Bow*

Young Adult. Featuring a dystopian future in which an AI forcibly keeps world peace by holding the children of world leaders hostage. If anyone attempts to start a war, their child will be executed. Greta is one of these children, kept in a school with others like her. But things start to change one day when a new, less obedient hostage arrives. A unique, slowburn take on the YA dystopian craze, also featuring a bisexual love triangle.

Iron Widow (Iron Widow series) by Xiran Jay Zhao

Young adult. Zetian is a citizen of Huaxia, where mecha aliens are constantly trying to breach the Great Wall. To keep them at bay, couples of men and women pilot so called Chrysalises, giant transforming robots. But the pilots are not equal - the women almost always die, sucked dry by their co-pilots. When Zetian sets herself up to become a concubine-pilot, she does so with the plan to assassinate the male pilot who caused her sister's death. Features a polyamorous main relationship.

Bonus AKA I haven't read these yet but they seem really cool:

Survival Instincts by May Dawney

Lynn Tanner has been surviving the post-apocalypse alone with only her dog for a long time, trusting no one. But when she's forced to travel the dangerous remains of New York City alongside another woman, her priorities are challenged. Is staying alone really the best way to stay alive?

These Burning Stars by Bethany Jacobs

When con-artist Jun Ironway gets her hands on possible proof of the powerful Nightfoot family, controllers of interplanetary travel, committing genocide, she has in her hands a chance of taking them and their monopoly down. But the family and their allies won't go down easily, and sends two brutal clerics to stop her.

Everfair by Nisi Shawl

A neo-victorian alternate history, in which a part of Congo was kept safe from colonisation, becoming Everfair, a safe haven for both the people of Congo and former slaves returning from America. Here they must struggle to keep this home safe for them all.

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #5768:

While I love m/f friendship to death and have some platonic relationship that fandoms I am in agree with I can't stand to see them labelled as "siblings" so people can scream incest at the ship. It's even more obvious that it's just because they can't stand the idea of a straight ship when one of the two character is in a popular gay ship.

And no I am not saying that people are "oppressed" for liking a straight ship. People shouldn't need to be "oppressed" to have bad attitude toward them called out to begin with.

[generalsdiary]

gays are so tragic.

any gay ship, any queer ship in any form of video game, anime, tv show, or movie where they're censored or made by homophobic ppl is so tragic.

the way they yearn to be together, which is shown by actors/voice actors/animators/writers. and, of course, we all grasp at the tiniest crumble, and the fanbases are the ones that recognize them and keep them alive- that is where the couple escapes the constraints, restrictions, and homophobia.

ex. in gi they said they will explore more same-sex couples by labeling them in game as 'best friends'. (kavetham, cynari, etc.)

so, of course, we, fanfic writers, write them as tragic, or even cursed yaoi, and yearning and all the heart-wrenching pieces because there's pain in their existence. they are our escape and something we relate to but we also offer them an escape, making them alive with our funny words and silly au's.

also some honorable mentions of good depictions of queer couples; good omens, shadowhunters (malec), our flag means death, the originals (freelin). (feel free to add more)

also, only pure hatred and disgust at the queerbaiting seen in media (I'm looking at you supernatural). furthermore, gender identities in media are a whole different issue and topic; where is the recognition overall, especially in video games, for enby's and similar?

honorable mention to bg3 for having great body options (trans friendly) and more gender options than the usual f/m.

there's also tragedy in queer characters, who fandoms depict and destroy by ignoring their sexuality, ex. yelena from marvel's black widow who is confirmed asexual. (which pains me as an aroace individual)

thus we write them as tragic and pained because, just like us, they also have to be hidden or censored, many queer ppl cannot come out due to so many varying reasons. sadly, we aren't safe everywhere and have to be careful. media is a nice escape, so I guess we can relate to our sad gays who are so much more like us than we thought at first hand.

dear writers, artists, and creators keep creating art and keep giving them life. we give them air to breathe and the hope that they give us. that is how this relationship with our favorite fictional characters transcends all bounds, we keep each other alive and comfort each other.

this rant was inspired by my mutual commenting on how homosexual my love confessing fic is (here if you're interested).

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

Lumity: Controversial Opinion

I have a lot of mixed feelings regarding Lumity. As a young queer, it was important for me and my development. It did a lot for queer representation and the fact that Luz is human means people can’t deny the queerness of it like some tried to do with Ruby and Sapphire by claiming they were aliens so it didn’t count. It is a cute sapphic romance and was very groundbreaking.

That said, it’s not the perfect romance it’s stans make it out to be. In many ways, it’s a wish fulfillment story, Luz gets to be with the rich, popular girl and be the hero of the Boiling Isles. They had some problems that they never really resolved. Luz kept lying and keeping secrets even after promising to be more open. On Amity’s end, her bullying in season 1 was sort of retconned to her parents and Boscha forcing her to act that way when there were several instances of her being nasty to Luz or Willow for no reason. Them breaking up or even taking a break would have taught both consequences. Amity’s bullying did play a role in Luz keeping secrets and she never got called out for it and was woobified.

Hardcore fans may dislike this but them breaking up wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would teach queer youth that queer relationships can have their own issues and breakups like cishet romance and you have to accept that because sapphic relationships are not inherently more pure than het ones. I may be biased towards Lunter but the latter ending up together would show that M/F couples can be queer as well and that it’s not “gay erasure” for a bi woman to end up with a bi man. Again, it was a groundbreaking ship for representation but isn’t the perfect romance and not everyone who dislikes it is a homophobic “parents rights” activist.

[olderthannetfic]

I think you got told before about the Bridgerton fandom homophobia, and possibly the fact that even before the show canonized this one long-time queer headcanon about one character and also suggeted another is bi or lesbian and going to have a female love interest in the future, the fandom was shitting its pants over people just writing properly-tagged rule 63 fics.

What maybe didn't get added that I think is the funniest detail is that those fandom homophobes were threatening to /report those to AO3/. I shit you not.

Just to be clear, these fics were very properly tagged. (In fact, one that got a lot of hate was by my friend, who is herself an AO3 tag wrangler - she if anyone knows how this shit works!) They used the name of the (F/M) canon ship, but they tagged the fic as only M/M and put "Male [Female Character Name]" and "Rule 63" in the additional tags. It was very easy for these people to NOT click on it. It was very clear what it was.

What the homophobes were mad about was that ANYTHING gay was showing up in their precious canon het ship tag that they felt like they Owned, that they had to be reminded that gay shit existed in this fandom at all. And so they'd made up a personal rule in their subreddits full of assholes that it was "wrong" to use the canon ship tag for that (to do what every other fandom on AO3 does, so how is anyone not in their shitty little club supposed to know anyway?) because just SEEING that some people are writing M/M or F/F versions of their het ships is somehow "uncool" to them. (Yes these people were equally enraged by F/F versions; it was funny to read their discourse where they tried to claim that doing M/M versions of an F/M ship was "misogynistic," but somehow thought the same criticism applied when people did F/F versions. So even more women is.... misogynistic somehow? just really made it clear how unintelligent these people were, not even thinking slightly through the arguments thy're making just copy and pasting.)

And they really thought AO3, the website that was founded by slashers fed up with fandom homophobes /just like them/ driving them off other sites, was going to sympathize with them over this????

(Also, do they really not get that if someone did use a tag of "Male Character Name/Male!Female Character Name," it was just going to be synned by tag wranglers into the tag of "Male Character Name/Female Character Name" anyway?)

I just thought you'd think it was so funny. Like, it really sucks for my friend who got a firehose of harassment from these assholes and learned that the fandom for a book and TV series she really likes is not a safe or friendly space, but there's something bitterly funny (to her, too, we were laughing about this privately) about these homophobic dipshits coming over from Wattpad thinking The Fanfiction Website Built By The Slashers is going to be sympathetic to "it is oppressing to see that some people write gay fiction in our fandom, can you make that stop?" and thinking they'll get any answer other than "Why yes! There is a feature that lets you not see that! There is a checkbox called 'F/M' that ensures that you will only see F/M fics!" Like thinking there's any way to get the people who run AO3 to think that people just writing slash and properly tagging it is a Problem To be Fixed, lmao.

--

[celerydays]

Hi! I have been following you for some time and I notice you draw more and more Sebastian and Ominis doing stuff that makes me... uncomfortable.....

Sebastian and Ominis are best friends, why people are obsessed with drawing them into weird gay stuff? Seriously.... Why can't be friends.... without all Sebinis... Just stop it...

Normally I would delete messages or simply ignore the things that make me feel uncomfortable–

But, you're on anon and this is my ask inbox, so I can only assume you want an actual, public response. So alright. Fine.

Like I said: normally I would just remove odd, uncomfortable, or even outright rude messages without making a whole thing of it. I curate my own online experience and I try my best to live by that rule.

However, I've now gotten multiple unsolicited DMs over the course of a couple of months expressing the exact same sentiment (and nearly word-for-word as this ask, so I highly suspect I already know who you are). I have duly ignored or glossed over them hoping that the person/people would take the hint to simply stop engaging with the same message over and over again. But an anon ask is my last straw, I guess.

So if you are the same person as in my DMs, I'm finally giving you a response (and if you're not the same person – which I highly doubt – then I'm speaking to both of you).

Firstly, I want to say that I am sorry that your worldview is so limited that this is your stance and feelings on gay/queer ship content for Sebastian and Ominis.

Next, I ask that you please:

Don't make your homophobia anyone else's issue but your own. Don't come into DMs/ask inboxes/comments to make your discomfort with the content I create my problem. I don't know what you hoped to accomplish by sending this message but it's unlikely that you'll find the same feelings or sympathy from the person who is actively creating queer/sebinis content.

Curate your own online experience. Once again, do not make your content consumption anyone else's problem but your own. The "unfollow" button is there. Tumblr has a tag filtering system and I try to tag my art and content as accurately as possible. If you do not like something/it makes you uncomfortable, then do not continue to consume it. And if you still decide to stick around for whatever reason, then please keep your thoughts/opinions on this matter to yourself because I can promise that I don't actually care why you would continue to be here and looking at my art if it makes you unhappy.

Widen your worldview and try to reframe your perspective. Consider that Sebastian x Ominis is just as canon as Sebastian x f!MC or Ominis x f!MC. As much as we like to ship our various MCs with the canon characters, MC never actually amounts to canonically being confirmed as anything but being just friends with everyone. Using the "they are just best friends" / "why can't they just be portrayed only as friends" could literally be applied to just about any other non-canon/non-confirmed ship between friends regardless of gender. If even one of them, Ominis or Sebastian, was portrayed as cis female in canon, I would suspect that you would better "understand" why a ship between these two "friends" may exist. Then also consider a cis male MC; it's possible you may suddenly reframe all the interactions between Ominis x m!MC or Sebastian x m!MC in your head to be "totally platonic/friendly". Your issue is certainly not with their canon relationship vs. fandom portrayal (but I think we both know that).

Educate yourself. Go outside and meet and talk to people, I dunno. It is 2024 my dude. I don't even know how you're on Tumblr – the most queer-friendly social media site – with those kind of narrowed views and stigma.

I would like to finish by saying: I don't wish you the best. What I do wish is for you to learn, grow, and be better than this.

And also please stop sending me messages of this nature, because the next ask or DM I get like this, we're moving on to blocking at this point. And if your purpose was to get me to stop, I can tell you that these messages have only fueled the explicit sebinis smut maker in me. 😤

[inchidentally]

x. com/ln4norris/status/1785872795974652036 thoughts on this?

this is one of those instances where so many ppl have this wildly different take on smth and honestly myself and the moots I talk to didn't even… realize it could be taken any other way ??

I think part of this is also bc some ppl are pretty new to landoscar so I'll put more effort into replying to this than I normally would bc I genuinely didn't and still don't see this as being some dramatic thing that Lando said!

but for better reference, I've actually compiled the full clips from the person who posted them in their stories originally with two clips of Lando and Carlos separately saying how their F1 buddies are NOT the same as their actual private life friendships bc I think it helps contextualize what Lando is talking about here.

I think the funniest misinterpretation about this is ppl taking these Shared Activities as indicating deep and meaningful friendships and that therefore Lando doesn't have anything deep or meaningful with Oscar… just bc no padel or golf ?? lasjfgsjla

"we don't do as many things away from the circuit [as Lando does with other drivers like Carlos and Max]"

like. in what world is that him saying anything but … that ?? it's not deep ??

esp when it corroborates what Lando said in that clip about how his relationships with the drivers he’s friends with depend on shared activities and that they’re not his actual close friends the way Max F and all his buddies in London are (he even says in the video above that his friends are mostly in London not Monaco!) and Carlos corroborated the same thing!

so for one thing, the reason he's fine with saying this is because he doesn't see it as some huge thing that he doesn't happen to have with Oscar ?? bc it's not some deep meaningful thing that he hangs with other drivers sometimes outside of F1! they're buddies sure but they're not his private life friends. that's normal and healthy !!

but the other thing that's honestly funny is ppl deciding to misinterpret this as either Lando being a callous asshole to Oscar or again, taking rpf too seriously and thinking "yaayyy I can pretend Lando is secretly in love with/has a deep bond with/is fucking [insert driver here] and hates Oscar"

and like Carlos, Daniel and Lando literally have identical bromance formats with each other and other drivers which makes the whole rpf competition thing so hilariously dumb?? they all do the common hobbies thing, the playing gay for laughs thing, the posting every interaction to social media for fan engagement thing, the roughhousing physicality thing - all with at least 3-5 other drivers. and when you count up the like rpf ship points that these people use to say which one is "better" then m@xiel shits all the way on dand0 for bonding and being mutually invested and charl0s absolutely dunks on carland0 for gay physicality and mutual affection and norrib0n comes along and reminds ppl that Alex remains a hero to Lando and Lando still gets starry eyes over him in a way he never will for Carlos or Daniel etc etc etcccc

all of which still end up paling in comparison to the actual, deep relationships these guys have with their girlfriends and with their private life friends! the idea that Lando will ever love a male friend the way he does Max F is like going to a rakes lying down park and stamping around to get hit in the face repeatedly like why would you bother to be that stupid bffr

[sidenote that I am SO glad for Lando to say smth like this video if it drives those fans away from landoscar. no joke. we do NOT want them here and we do NOT want them treating Lily the way they treat Heidi and Rebecca and treated Luisa and Isa. please stay in carland0 and dand0 and whatever else with that l@rry stylins0n misogynistic, closeted gay men as a fetish shit]

the reality is that if Lando was just meh about Oscar and disinterested in spending any more time with him than he needed to then why would he even point this out ? why would he bother to point out - with even kind of an exasperated pout in his voice - that Oscar isn't interested in anything they can spend time together doing if he… doesn't want to spend time with Oscar anyway ??

exactly asfgsajgflagf

and for ppl who are new, literally the reason a lot of us are so Compelled is precisely bc Lando and Oscar don't follow the cookie cutter bromance format and their respect and interest in each other doesn't rely on common activities or playing into fan PR. they're literally the anti-PR partnership not bc they hate each other or have drama but bc every member of their team says how much they've bonded as drivers and that every time we get content of them together they're beaming at each other and seem to have all these cute little in-jokes and softness. but none of it is for show! none of it jumps off the screen or has them knowingly trying to bait fans!

their entire dynamic is for their own benefit alone and both of them have said how happy they are to have their future together settled for so many years. and the whole vibe of landoscar fandom is that we were all fine with the idea of them just being work friends! then Silverstone happened and the Austin filming happened etc etc. and now we're all watching it and writing fic and making gifs and edits bc landoscar is gentle and gradual and sweet and boyish and genuine.

it's been this gradual little dance between two guys who each have a unique preoccupation with each other but they don't do any of the usual blokey things to force a friendship. Lando's fixations on Oscar's name and his hair and how he's taller and bigger than him and the weirdly horny verbal burps that come out aren't something he does with any of his other driver friends. Oscar is so chilled about other drivers and doesn't even do the whole hero worship thing, yet his internet history about Lando is it's own extremely unique thing that has carried over as his teammate in a way he's never been about another driver.

they don't roughhouse or make fun of each other or push each other's buttons for fun and they don't even raise their voices around each other ?? everything is so gentle and not macho at all ! Lando strangely feels awkward and looks right at Oscar to explain why he diverted to visit Daniel with Martin as a spontaneous unplanned thing even though Oscar wasn't even in Australia anymore when that happened and Oscar didn't even feel like it needed to be explained! Oscar learns and adapts to what Lando feels sensitive about and needs some help with and sometimes even keeps an eye out for his physical well being.

and I think something that has kind of been missed entirely is that the context for the latest video was Lando saying how he's always been the youngest or least experienced in a driver friendship dynamic and - as he's said many times before! - he finds the idea of having to be the older experienced leader not at all comfortable!

which leads to smth a lot of us have always found the sweetest part of the 814 dynamic, the fact that Lando realized early on that he doesn't have to Try with Oscar and he can just exist in his feelings with Oscar and Oscar does not push and he does not get annoyed or weird or offended! and that means that Lando is yes, free to be the full range of bratty to sweetheart and everything in between bc Oscar will just smile at him and be patient. but !! it also means that unless Lando uses his words or takes charge, Oscar will remain in that quiet patient position in their dynamic and won't presume to take charge.

so Lando wishes Oscar would be the older one and take the initiative and now he's in a pickle where he's saying they only don't hang out bc Oscar won't share an interest with him and you can see for a second he knows what he's saying isn't true bc they all talked on a fan stage about a padel competition between Williams and McLaren and he remembers inviting Oscar out to golf at the last minute one time and that Oscar only declined bc he doesn't know how to play and didn't want to hold everyone up but ugh !!! like that is SUCH a Lando situation to get himself into and to somehow be mad at Oscar about <3<3

but ever since Oscar arrived with very little fanfare and decided not to draw too much attention to himself until literally recently, when the Alpine drama was finally firmly behind him, he's been so intent on showing his deference to Lando and even as lately as the place swap in Melbourne that he fully understands the driver dynamics within the team and respects it. and the thing is that Oscar genuinely is so happy to wait and see what Lando wants or needs that it would never remotely occur to him to push or insert himself into Lando's social life unless invited!

so yes, being a fan of landoscar is just like this! it'll never be the PR friendly bromance or the l@rry stylins0n conspiracy theory.

and yep weirdly enough for how so many ppl are taking it, this video for us is so sweet bc Lando's publicly muddling around about why won't Oscar do a mutual interest with him but also already having admitted that he's not good at taking the role that he needs to and pulling Oscar along into his social life the way Carlos, Daniel, Max etc have always done with him - all while Oscar is oblivious and doesn't think anything is even wrong ! and oh boy, Oscar being too literal and not being the type to be pushy ends up assuming he's doing the right thing by not trying to invite himself along to anything with Lando!

like, this is how it goes! if you want the whole bromance catering precisely to your ship needs OR you're hunting for huge drama and simmering resentments that turn into huge drama then this is NOT the place for you lasfgalfg

don't get me wrong I eat up the bromances and the doomed drama partnerships too but I just don't find them worth writing all these stupid posts about like I do w landoscar bc those partnerships are what you see is what you get. apparently what gets me going is The Yearning and The Miscommunication.

[bthump]

what draws you to homosexual relationships in fiction as opposed to heterosexual ones? I noticed I prefer them as well but I don’t really know why. Or maybe it’s just in the media I like the homosexual relationships are written to be much more compelling, I don’t know. This isn’t hate against het relationships btw I support all sexualities

Probably a million different reasons honestly. Off the top of my head, some of my personal reasons:

-- I'm bi but more interested in gay relationships in my personal life, so my fictional interests reflect my irl interests.

-- Removes misogyny as a factor both within the romantic dynamic and, if m/m, the depiction.

-- Relatedly, I hate how 99% of hetero relationships in media have a built in lowkey unacknowledged d/s vibe due to that misogyny. Woman passive man active, woman pursued man pursues, woman weak man strong, woman soft man hard, woman fucked man fuck, woman object man subject, woman prize man winner, woman small man big, woman puts in work and money to make herself attractive man gets to live at his default state, woman desirable for looks man desirable for personality/money/skill, woman financially dependent on man, etc etc etc. Turns me off.

-- Like at least when that's the dynamic in m/m or f/f it's deliberately someone's kink and a gender norm is being subverted by one of the characters.

-- Gay relationships being more equal is something I've seen cited a lot, rightly or not, but it isn't one of my reasons lol, I like unequal relationships in fiction. That said, gender not being a factor in that inequality is definitely a draw for me.

-- Subtext is more engaging than most textual romances, and gay relationships are more likely to be subtext while het is more likely to be textual.

-- Gay sex (m/m and f/f) turns me on, straight sex rarely does.

-- Specific to m/m, but men in fiction are more likely to have compelling, complicated, deep relationships with each other than they are with women.

-- I enjoy gender nonconformity which is much more plentiful in gay ships and fiction than straight media.

-- Heterosexuality is oversaturated in media and I'm exhausted and irritated by its ubiquitousness.

-- As someone who grew up in the 90s, the existence of casually gay popular media still blows my mind lol, the shine has not come even close to wearing off. Heterosexual media just can't compete with that.

Anyway yeah, those are a few of my reasons, and maybe they align with some of yours as well.

Ultimately though I don't think it matters and it shouldn't be something you feel the need to justify imo. Enjoy whatever you enjoy for whatever reason, or no reason at all. But if you enjoy soul searching, then maybe this list is a decent starting point.

[pokeblader3]

Honestly I want any anti-Huntlow person at this point who says the couple has no appeal or thematic value and is just a generic hetero ship with the attractive male love interest to look my disabled ass squarely in the eye (looking down, with your ability to stand.) and tell me that people who look like Hunter are considered "conventionally attractive", and that I've not gone to disability and autism support groups filled with people with face/body scarring and disfigurings that severe (often tied to disabilities),

and conditions that will never get better that had literally no friends outside the support groups because y'all treated them like freaks for having a misformed lip or not having full upright-ness of their body (I have a feeling Hunter's eye bags might never go away, like I feel the 24-hour eye bags I have had in real life for several years might never go away),

and that the choice to portray a love story between a disfigured, fundamentally different person in love with a healthy plus sized Asian girl who was bullied and given severe mental issues and now finds strength in his reassurance and literal help as one of the people who helps stabilize her so she can be a badass.... is conventional and what cishet white audiences want lmao.

We have 3 bisexual female characters, the two leads are given female and nonbinary love interests with more screentime, and the m/f bisexual couple is late-series and with a gender dynamic of a strong woman who fights to protect her friends and domestic-violence survivor partner, who now is being characterized primarily by his desire to be soft and domestic (sewing? gardening? wanting to just be seen as a human?) isn't still groundbreaking? There literally is no way it could be more fair and appealing of a concept to you.

Like. I'm starting to think maybe some of y'all have bad reasons for being vocally against the ship which is full of people who just want to be positive and left to themselves (and have much of the crew on their side as fans). Maybe if a ship like this is being put in your gay show, it's just as groundbreaking for different reasons you don't see.

Some of us cripples (including us queers) have partners who Hunter and Willow remind us of (especially with the amount of transgender grimwalker Hunter interpretations I've seen or fan concepts where Willow eventually starts using her plant magic to help stabilize Hunter's body in older age from Grimwalker decay as a partial root being), mostly people just like you, just more open-minded and willing to see us (and literally hear us, if you've seen none of this, somehow, yet) as people.

And I don't just speak for myself, I have a plus sized South Asian bisexual girl friend who says Hunter and Willow's gender dynamic was one of the few times she ever saw herself in television and loves it equally as me.

[dukeofdelirium]

I will never believe Zu/tara shippers when they say they hate Kata/aang because it's "heteronormative" since one of the main complaints Kata/aang gets from them is that "no 14 year old girl would wanna date a bald boy who's younger and shorter then her" or how Aang gets called a bald lesbian as an insult. Idk man I think Katara ending up with the bad boy with anger issues who is most stereotypically masculine of all the Gaang boys and who she spends most of the story hating for hurting her and her friends (who also personally betrayed her trust when she tried to help him). Idk man I think if these two got together that'd be a lot more heteronormative, especially since they only became friends an ep before the finale started. I think Katara and Aang's relationship has writing issues too (I have a lot of gripes I'm not coming at this as a shipper) but it takes a particular kind of ship brainrot to argue Zuta/ra end game would have made more sense or been a better end game with the canon we are given. And arguing it's somehow less heteronormative to make Zuko get together with Katara. I can't with this fandom.

if either of these two ships fit the definition of heteronormativity, it’s zvtara, not kataang. Aang does not fit the western male character type. He is short, shaves his head, is pacifistic, and quite feminine compared to the other male characters. He gets insulted for doing things that characters deem as “feminine”, like weaving jewelry for one.

the show doesn’t actually support this idea that femininity is bad, but characters like Sokka who have narrow viewpoints early in the story try to ridicule him. toph also makes jabs at Aang’s femininity.

Zvtara shippers argument has never been about heteronormativity. It’s always been “misogyny”. The only reason they’re adopting heteronormativity in their list of vocab words they still don’t know the definitions of is bc most of us kataang shippers on here (tumblr) are gay, bisexual, etc. And because we, as majority lgbt ppl have stated that their ship is heteronormative, they just want to flip that to use against us even when it doesn’t apply.

Kataang simply doesn’t follow a typical m/f ship in terms of writing, characters or how they interact with one another. Which is by and large why it has been so hated by these idiots. They wanna say “muhhh heteronormativity” but in the same breath ridicule Aang’s femininity, say he isn’t masculine enough for her, call him a lesbian etc to undermine the ship. Just as they say “muhhh male gaze” when most kataang shippers are actually women, because most ppl involved in shipping communities and fandoms in general are women.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I only know of a couple of male kataang shippers on here, myself being one of them. Ships and fandoms are very much and have always been a female dominated community. That’s for any fandom or any ship I’ve seen.

Their arguments are ridiculous and make no sense. It’s just like when some zvtara idiot was in my inbox harassing me for being a man and was saying that I’m an incel and that I hate women and want to rape women….. when I’m fucking GAY! Nothing they say makes sense or is canonical, so I’ve long since stopped taking anything they say seriously. It’s just free entertainment at this point.

Full offense but I don’t need a bunch of straight girls to tell me what heteronormativity means 😂

[ewesless]

FURIOUS at the Misogynists and Lesbophobes in OM Fandom

A few recent confessions about Thirteen made me MATI so this is my rant.

Thirteen still does traps on MC, she is still a prankster and inventor, but she gets sidelined hella hard and is usually limited to one or two cameos with MC or a brief interaction with other characters. She's never going to be antagonistic to MC.

Girl is not their priority despite being a love interest. She gets shoved in the background or not sexualized even when male characters get a ton of stupid fanservice. I can only assume the artists and writers are walking on eggshells with her because of lesbophobes and misogynists or shallowly appealing to the "We're different! We don't sexualize women 😁"

She has feelings for MC the fastest because they get along and she's attracted to them. Their chemistry is explored quickly in Chats in OM, but I doubt most of you will reach those because of how late in the series the newbies appeared.

She asks them on dates and shows up "by coincidence" A LOT because she likes them and wants to spend time with ONLY THEM frequently. In events she only shows up for MC (or texts them) and then gets shoved out of the story entirely because OhHhHh she's sooooooo antisocial~ Despite initially being reluctant to game with MC, the bros and Mephisto she really enjoyed it and their company!

Thirteen likes MC's bedroom whereas Mephisto was unimpressed with MC's room and insulted it.

She didn't go googoo gaga for no reason about MC, MC's soul is beautiful and attracted her. She wants to have it "when you're done with it" instead of reaping it. How in the hell does that imply she doesn't want to let them go? JUST LIKE THE BROS AND SIDES.

ANOTHER THING. Thirteen doesn't like people dropping in at her house and doesn't invite them either. She invites MC in chats to see her and I wish that MC would visit her more.

THIRTEEN WAS THE ONLY ONE IN THE SIDES AFFECTED BY MISSING MC. She loves them and misses them as well as let them close to her when already stated she's anti-social and aloof. She has a broken heart button on her RAD uniform that she sewed on herself along with the other heart buttons. It makes me wonder about her past and that she's opened herself up to MC and love even though her heart was/is broken.

And if MC isn't into things like cosmetics, shopping and other "girly" interests it's possibly to reject her/hanging out. She likes to treat them to coffee, desserts and shopping trips whereas multiple other characters use that as bribes or rewards or leeching off MC's wallet.

Mephistopheles has a low opinion of MC and Raphael is indifferent to them. Suddenly getting feelings in events makes no fucking sense.

Mephistopheles opens up to MC in the main story and contacted them to brag about his brother, but in his birthday call on year 2 he is suddenly into them and wants to get to know them???

Raphael isn't even friendly with MC in the story, the Raphael we met has been Michael in two out of three instances. He suddenly starts talking about "feeling something for MC" when he went up against Barbatos who was the hardest won Love Interest in the game.

Fuck off, seriously fuck off with the homophobia/misogyny. She is our love interest not yours and not a rival or antagonist.

Shipping Thirteen with any of the scrotes ROYALLY pisses me off because I HATE straight couples and M/F. I kept that to myself, for the most part, but if some of you are hating on shippers for shipping gay couples and exclusively want your scrotes to yourselves Thirteen fans can too. Stop shipping the one female option off in male relationships when it's literally just to get her away from your man. Making up a male MC or a political lesbian MC is BULLSHIT and looking for attention and asspats for being inclusive.

Po/rn is an inherently misogynistic and objectifying exploitation of women's bodies and sexuality and should not EVER be used to make sexy art of women in my opinion. One of the pics I hate most is her jerking off two faceless/mob characters in a subjugated pose. That was backhanded, hateful and degrading.