#afab transfems are valid

[honeydreamzz]

a message from a mlw grayro-ace transmasc and questioning multiromantic

lesboys and turigirls are valid.

he/him lesbians and she/her veldians are valid.

aromantics, asexuals and aromantic asexuals are valid.

cistrans people are valid.

intersex people are valid.

non-binary and otherwise genderqueer people are valid.

m-spec lesbians and veldians are valid.

transmascfems are valid.

afab transfems and amab transmascs are valid.

straightbians, straightcians and gaybians are valid.

if your identity is considered contradictory, complicated, weird or difficult to understand but it makes you happy and doesn't purposefully harm others in any way, it's valid.

you're all welcome on my blog <3

[sapphic-boy]

you could do with hating trans women a bit less

Since when do I hate trans women? That's news to me

[ichliebemeinkissen]

"oh? well what about transfem afabs who are PERISEX!!"

i don't know how to tell you this but nobody asked. and i am kinda pissed i'm seeing other intersex people sell out perisex trans people because they think it's their ticket to getting intersexists to like you. the same people who say intersexist ass things are praising people who speak out against perisex transfems AFAB. They don't gaf about you more than the TERFs in my notes telling me how much they LOVE intersex people.. while also calling me a stupid male and telling me to shut up.

[dolphinrostrums]

when someone you blocked for being apparently somewhat uneducated on a specific (although niche) topic and not wanting to deal with that turns out to actually be a shithead for other reasons

[ghostedglitch]

turns sollux into a girl and puts her in my clothes. no reason

doodled october 17, 2023

[gizdathemxel]

*gripping my hands so hard on a young trans persons shoulders that their bones are about to break*

do not log on to 4chan.com. do not get involved in passing olympics. you will always lose. do not put afab/amab* in your bio, that is cisgender society trying to know your “real” gender. you do not exist to please cisgender people. there is no ‘right’ way to be trans. learn your goddamn history, listen to your elders. listen to other disenfranchised groups. listen to intersex people and check yourself for intersexism. listen to trans poc and check yourself for racism. listen to disabled people and check yourself for ableism. be open to learning always. labels are meant to fit you, not the other way around. you are not weird or predatory for simply being attracted to others. you’re fine if you’re not a skinny white twink or a barbie doll. you’re fine if your body is ‘weird’. you’re fine if you don’t have heavy or any dysphoria. it’s okay if you actually don’t want to transition or anything like that. life is worth living at any stage, you deserve to be happy. I SWEAR THAT YOU ARE OKAY!!!!!

*ok editing this bc i think there are some major misunderstandings here and also ignorance on my part so lemme clear the air. when i wrote “don’t put tme/tma” in ur bio i did NOT mean to say that discussions around transmisogyny aren’t important or that tme/tma cannot be helpful terminology, and i’m super sorry that it came off that way. also editing bc someone pointed out to me that the original phrasing of this post is very misinforming, so to also clarify, tme/tma was a term invented by transfems to talk about transfeminine experiences which i will admit that i was unfamiliar with the history of tme/tma as a term and was introduced to it through some really bad online queer discourse. but it’s always been of my opinion that discussion around all forms of bigotry, including transmisogyny, are important and need to be had. i explained in a rb, which i’ll link when i have more time, that my issue was with the way the term is used as only identification/oppression olympics rather than genuine nuanced discussion about the ways that transphobia/transmisogyny/transandrophobia/etc function and interact with each other. i advised young trans people to not put tma/tme in their bios, bc i know that the wrong people (not just cis people, but transphobes and assholes who just want to get under your skin) would use any indication of your direction of transition to try and misgender you. or specifically in the case of tma/tme, tell you that your experiences/thoughts are not valid or reasonable bc you were tma or tma.

i realize how not originally clarifying that makes me look stupid (and a transmisogynist), so seriously, i’m sorry for that major mishap. tma/tme are not inherently bad words and you are 1000% allowed to use whatever terminology fits you and your experiences best. so as another word of advice: please do not let some rando on the internet tell you how you should talk about your experiences

(also idgaf if you don’t “log on” to 4chan or that it’s “not a website”, the fact that any of you know that is shameful and upsetting)

[ftmtftm]

Seeing shit that completely rewrites recent online trans history makes me so frustrated because I was there!!!!!!

Like what do you mean "theyfab was coined by frustrated transfems to express their frustration with transmisogynist nonbinary people"???? I was literally getting called a transtrender theyfab by 4channers as a 15 year old in 2013 because I was a feminine nonbinary kid with a dyed undercut??? In 2016 I was a shithead 18 year old that hated itself and was calling other trans people transtrender theyfabs to try and validate myself????????

It's literally a term born out of misogyny and the idea that feminine nonbinary people who were afab are faking being trans???????????

I didn't escape the depths of 2010's transmedicalism in my early 20's and start dedicating my time towards trying to repair the damage I and others caused just for y'all to completely rewrite that history to try and justify your own hatred of other trans people 😭

[hallowdeaddyke]

Is it lesbophobic to say that lesbianism should just outright stop being vagina-centric or am I allowed to advocate for dick-hungry lesbian rights

[transmisogyny-explained]

I want to submit a perspective on "afab transfemininity" from. an afab multi gender person. I know my experience isn't representative of everyone who calls themselves this, but I wanted to at least share

I don't call myself a trans woman, I hesitate to call myself transfem. nonetheless, I feel connected to femininity in a distinctly transgender way. when I first came out, I hated being a girl. I was a transmedicalist and validated myself by invalidating others. I had to face a lot of internalized misogyny and transphobia in order to really learn what it meant to be a man. after I started testosterone about 3 yrs ago, I realized I was a lesbian, and started feeling more comfortable being, at least in part, a woman. it was different this time because it was something I liked, something new and my own, not something ascribed to me. it's not cisgender in any way, it is transfemininity

this being said, I know my experience toward transfemininity is extremely different from the norm. I am not what most people are referring to when they refer to transfems, and there are many definitions of transfem that do not include me. despite that, I do have some experiences that overlap, things I can relate to. my femininity is at its core transgender in nature. my gender now is more complex... I feel like both a man and a woman, neither and both. but that doesn't mean my feelings about my gender are predatory or invalid. I don't want to talk over transfems, I am very aware of my place in these conversations. but I still have a place, and it frustrates me to see you share posts that minimize my experience into a stereotype

Why do you view transfemininity as being, at its core, the experience of being “both a man and a woman” lmao

Get back to me when you start viewing trans women as actual women and transfemininity as actual femininity, and not an aesthetic or a vibe or “some other third thing” apart from femininity.

You “feel femininity in a distinctly transgender way?” Congrats! You’re nonbinary! But that is NOT what being a trans woman is — Their womanhood and femininity is not essentially different from cis women’s.

What you are describing is a very generic experience of being a feminine nonbinary person, and I don't say that to insult you; but to compare that experience to those of trans women’s betrays the fact that you don't view them as the same gender as cis women. Which is transmisogyny. It’s textbook third-gendering.

Call yourself a nonbinary woman- Call yourself whatever you want, in fact. But trans women and TMA people are never going to feel safe around you so long as you continue insisting that transfemininity is essentially the same as the nonbinary femininity you experience, and essentially different from “real” cis women’s femininity.

Also, can I just say that it’s a little condescending that you would end your ask by saying “I’m aware of my place in these conversations, but…”

Like, if you were really “aware of your place” and were actually listening to transfems when we talk about transfeminism, you would be able to recognize the enormous amount of transmisogyny baked into your message. On top of the third-gendering, you also managed to:

Imply that TMA people don’t understand the complexities of gender and nonbinarity like you, a TME person, do

Imply that TMA people creating the language and spaces to discuss our experiences in a way that excludes you, a TME person, is invalidating and somehow tantamount to labeling you as “predatory” (what does that even mean?)

Sent an unprompted ask to a transfem’s blog venting your frustrations with the language of transfeminism, despite the fact that I’m not even the one who made those posts?

Showed a pretty absurd amount of entitlement by insinuating that it’s somehow my problem that you feel frustration over misunderstanding the basics of transfeminist theory

Subtly demanded that I do the emotional labor of managing your frustration, which, frankly, is just classic misogyny

Displayed a complete lack of understanding towards what transmisogyny even is, nor why we, as the direct targets of transmisogyny, need the the language and spaces to discuss it

I really don’t care what transfem “experiences” you think you relate to, the fact that you perpetuate and can benefit from transmisogyny will always separate you from us, and if you actually gave a shit about us and our struggles, you would recognize that and try to be a better ally to us rather than co-opting and redefining our language in a shallow attempt to define us out of existence.

As has been said countless times now:

“Transfeminine” does not mean “trans + feminine,” it is a term coined by TMA people to describe our specific experiences with being denied our femininity. That is something which you, as a person for whom (as you said) womanhood/femininity was ascribed by the system of patriarchy, cannot understand in the way we do.

[genderqueerdykes]

its so frustrating when people prevent transfeminine people from entering lesbian, sapphic and dyke spaces, because we would not be where we are today in terms of queer rights in the United States if it were not for the hard work of trans lesbians and bi/pan/queer trans women. transfemininity and lesbianism are impossible to separate. lesbianism is inseparable from all trans experiences, but most importantly from transfeminine experiences.

if you interact with multiple communities for trans women and transfem people, you will see that there are many sapphics, lesbians and dykes who are transfems and trans women. i've met a lot of transfems irl and online and the vast majority have been bi/pan/polysexual and/or lesbians, dykes and sapphics. all of my irl transfem friends are bi, lesbians and dykes. there are lots of straight transfems and trans women and that's okay, but transfemininity goes hand in hand with lesbianism

it may be hard to encounter transfeminine lesbians at times if you are in a white, rad fem or rad fem pilled space where those in charge only allow skinny, short, AFAB or AFAB adjacent cis lesbians. there are many spaces who chase out transfeminine people for their own "safety". these are very common, so if you encounter this a lot, don't necessarily give up. it's just an unfortunate symptom of people refusing to take the time to interact with a group outside of their own narrow echo chamber.

many people are afraid to include transfeminine features in lesbian posts and in lesbian art because they're so used to AFAB and AFAB adjacent bodies and people being the "norm". we're still at point where we prioritizing AFAB bodies in lesbian spaces and it's time we stopped. transfeminine bodies deserve to be represented in lesbian art, representation, health and information. transfeminine people, and bodies, are a very common fixture in lesbian, dyke and sapphic experiences. some of these groups of people take estrogen, have deeper voices, broader shoulders, facial and body hair, narrow hips, and dense muscles. we should not be prioritizing these things in cis butch lesbians, but rather celebrating the diversity in lesbianism.

while not every lesbian has to be a woman, it's important to allow people who are in love with womanhood into the lesbian community. that is a huge part of what we are here for, is loving women and celebrating womanhood. its so lesbian to want to build other women up, too, to want to celebrate how they experience womanhood. to help them feel like a woman. to help them transition into being a woman. to validate their butchhood or femmehood. ofc there's people with other genders in the lesbian community, make no mistake. but it's so crucial to have people who love womanhood. to have a passion for womanhood. something that can be related to attraction, but goes very deep. and this positively impacts the other lesbians in the space around us.

intersex people are also heavily empowered by this. intersex people are a huge part of the transfeminine and lesbian communities as well. there are a lot of intersex transfems and trans women and these experiences are also very heavily related to lesbianism. people almost never talk about intersex transfems and trans women, and especially when it comes to lesbians, but many, many trans women and transfem have intersex bodies and identities and are very often part of lesbian and dyke spaces, either for reasons of what they get referred to by others, their passion for lesbianism and/or womanhood, or their attraction.

to love their own womanhood so much that they love other people's womanhood. people who are in love with being femme and what femininity represents joining these spaces only empower other people. and it's by no means a rare experience. many transfemmes and trans women find themselves loving femininity and/or womanhood so much that they just love women and femmes in general. this is such a common experience

there's no way you could ever separate lesbianism from transfemininity. there's a deep, powerful passion for womanhood and femininity in many transfemmes and women, and it motivates them to express it to any and all women, femmes, and lesbians. to protect and care for and look after women, femmes, lesbians, dykes and sapphics. it's an act of radical self love. not only do we love how we feel, but we love seeing other people experience euphoria when allowed to participate in womanhood and/or femininity.

it's a very natural way to experience one's own expression, one's love for their own gender, it transcends their love for themselves and is passed on to those around them. it's liberating. it's beyond liberating to be around someone who says that lesbians can be transfeminine and trans women. that lesbians and dykes don't have to perform femininity or womanhood to ridiculous degrees. that lesbians and women don't have to be body/facial hairless, short, tiny, quiet, big breasted, wide hipped, narrow shouldered, small handed, and so on.

it's so empowering, feminist, and lesbian to be around someone who says a woman and/or a lesbian, dyke or sapphic can and do look like anyone and anything. that transness and lesbianism cannot be separated, because they are so closely related to one another. it's ridiculous and inaccurate to insinuate that transfeminine people and trans women are ever out of place in lesbian spaces. we have to continue to fight this behavior, because the two are so close they have always been related to one another from the start. from the beginning of the lesbian and trans communities, there have been transfemmes and trans women in lesbian spaces. we have always been here.

[patricia-taxxon]

Why is the transfem debate not similar to the bi lesbian/he him lesbian debate?

Not trying to fight or accuse you of doing anything just genuinely would like to know bc from my perspective, the things ppl say about the word transfem seem exactly the same as the things I said when I identified as a lesbian and believed bi lesbians were Not Valid (I don't believe that anymore) but I could be missing something and I wanna know what it is I'm missing

i'm not a lesbian, but I'm a transfem who still feels gay when I love men, and i think the difference is that I actually have some claim to gay man homophobia in a way that perisex afab people can never have with transfemininity. i was identified as a faggot by the other kids, hate-motivated murders by straight men against trans women are sometimes done out of a burning fear of being gay, etc. Coercively being assigned and raised as male throughout childhood is a non-negotiable part of the transfem experience, though. it's more load-bearing than *exclusively* loving women is to lesbianism.

[pigeontakeover]

Yall can't be out here talking about wanting weirder queer people and then make a bunch of discourse hating on afab transfems and amab transmascs and bi lesbians and transfem fags and transmasc dykes. Like maybe your approval isn't required for someone's identity to be valid and maybe they don't deserve to get a bunch of harassment and see hate speech directed at them just because you're close minded

[thatonegaybrit]

; happy pride to everyone ! And I mean everyone. All of you. Even the ones that aren't usually mentioned !!?

; including but not limited to:

BIPOC queers

Disabled queers

Neurodivergent queers

Closeted people

People in countries it's extremely illegal to be queer ( stay safe, it'll be okay !! )

People in unsupportive families ( stay safe, you'll find family / friends who support you, I promise <3 )

Trans folk who haven't and / or have no desire to medically transition

Xenogender users

Neopronoun users

People who use " conflicting " labels like being masc-aligned and a lesbian

Aroallo people ( exclusionists be damned,, you are valid !! )

Intersex people who are AFAB / AMAB

Intersex people in general

Queer people who don't fit their stereotypes ( i.e. Fem lesbian, masc gay, non-androgynous enby )

Black trans women who continue to be masculinized and misgendered ( you are a woman !! A beautiful one at that. )

Gay asian men who are fetishized ( you're not a fetish !! )

Old queer people who are forgotten / underrepresented

Alternative people who are queer ( mainly black / non-white ppl .. But also all of you !! Valid !! )

People who use uncommon microlabels and are always forgotten

Plus-sized queers !!

People who didn't realize they were LGBTQIA+ until much later in life

People who aren't out and proud and are actually having lots of doubts,, it's okay to have doubts !! You're still valid !!

Transmascs / transfems who don't specifically identify as a man / woman

People who are religious and queer

; and everyone else who's often excluded / forgotten !! You're a part of this community and you're so so valid and you deserve to enjoy pride month too ! However you do so. :]

; brief caps tw below this <33

; HAPPY PRIDE MONTH <3

; pt: HAPPY PRIDE MONTH <3 :end pt

[starryroe]

can I be completely real- and this is rambling at one am after waking up from a "nap" that is essentially a failed sleeping attempt, so it may not going to be well-worded- I hate the idea of *any* label or term being agab exclusive.

I hate the afab/amab transfem/transmasc discourse because people simply keep pointing out agab language when it is so unnecessary to do so.

I do not think anyone has to be any agab to be any kind of transfem or transmasc they want. and I hate that the two stances are "transfem is exclusive to amab!" and "afab transfem is valid!" when the real fucking answer is "being transfem is beautiful and important and represents the way you live your life, not the way your life began"

in an attempt to make transness more inclusive one does not need to accidentally make it feel more oppressive

[hailmaryfullofgrace55675]

for a few years now (like since at least 2021) i’ve been occasionally seeing isolated individuals try on “AFAB trans woman”, “AFAB transfem”, “AMAB trans man”, “AMAB transmasc” and dreading the possibility of this becoming an inclus/exclus thing where there’s a huge vicious debate and a ton of people develop calcified stances that it’s “valid” because they are straight ticket voters on uses of language being “valid”. i’ve recently come across multiple fairly high-note promotions of each of 1) yeah, sure, anyone can be a trans woman (normal understanding of the language of AGAB, replaces meaning of “trans woman” with “someone who is a woman and also trans” or, worse “someone who identifies with the vibe of trans womanhood”) and 2) your AGAB is whatever you decide it is, maybe even a neolabel (completely opposite the concept of gender assignment at birth). i’m crossing my fingers that these uses somehow go no further, or that if they do the ensuing fight blows over quickly.

as an individual topic, it’s frustrating because it points to the complete failure on a lot of people’s parts to absorb or understand the basic premises of this idea of transgender.

we live in a world where, when humans are born, the adults around them decide what role they are going to have in a system of male/female boy/girl man/woman. usually they pick based on a quick look at the child’s external genitalia. if the quick look doesn’t match their idea of what a baby boy or baby girl is supposed to look like, they might or might not do further physical investigation, and either way they will pick a role for the child. if the child doesn’t look one of the ways expected, they might enforce this decision through surgery to conform the child’s body to their ideal for the role they chose. whether the decision was immediate or after deliberation, whether surgery was performed or not performed, this process of role picking is coercive. a first act of coercion in a childhood of coercion in a lifetime of coercion.

children are raised to the roles they were assigned. sometimes this involves the deliberate imposition of a lot of restrictions and expectations about how the child will look and behave, sometimes fewer, sometimes almost none but that they will agree that they are what the adults said they were. even if it is only the last, the child will sooner or later feel the weight of much greater expectations, because they will become aware that wider society says girls should look girly and do girl things and boys should look boyish and do boy things. sometimes it becomes apparent that a child’s body is growing to not match the adults’ idea of what a male body or a female body is supposed to look like or do. if this happens, the adults might allow or force the child to switch roles, might ease or double down on their expectations, and might or might not give the child a choice in whether they biomedically intervene in the child’s physical development.

sometimes, a person grows to refuse the role they were assigned and adopt a new one. sometimes they only refuse the role they were assigned. sometimes they only adopt a new one. sometimes they only refuse the expectations and restrictions. sometimes they refuse being a boy-male-man or girl-female-woman. sometimes they first do this as a child, sometimes as an adolescent, sometimes as an adult. sometimes they conform to the expectations and restrictions for the role they adopt on purpose, other times less so, other times not at all. sometimes they seek to change their body. rejecting one’s assigned role is an opportunity to escape the pain of the old coercion and find new joys in new, chosen ways of being.

to adopt a new role is simultaneously to adopt that role and to adopt the social position of a role-adopter and the social position of one-who-has-moved-from-that-role-to-this-role. these social positions come with expectations and restrictions in addition to the ones associated with the role adopted. having rejected the assigned role, more possibilities are available to a person. there is a great deal of free choice available for those who are willing to make it. sometimes there are special roles that are never assigned at birth and can only be taken on by someone conscious enough to choose.

gender assignment at birth isn’t an identity, it’s an act of coercion. trans womanhood isn’t a feeling, it’s a particular confluence of adoption and abandonment in a social system premised on gender assignment.

the prospect of discourse fights over “AFAB trans girls” and etc. is unpleasant because they’ll suck super bad and exhaust tons of people for nothing, but more present and disturbing is this even being an issue. understanding the nature of gender assignment is such a keystone in trans theory that i genuinely do not know what models of transness people are functioning on without it.

[tirfpikachu]

are we just crazy or are lgbt spaces getting legit deranged?????

every unusual experience of sexuality/gender is a valid part of the bootiful qweer biodiversity of the world by default, but you can't be gay/bi/trans and not want to be called the q slur or see cishets say the q slur. and you can't say that you're afab4afab or amab4amab, that's just a creepy bigoted fetish you freak. unless you're transmasc4transmasc or transfem4transfem ofc, you get a free pass. but also kinkshaming is evil and deeply harms the most marginalized. but also make sure you don't have a fetish about genitalia... if you do, it's a "preference" not an inborn trait and you really can therapize yourself into liking it, just try hard enough. if you fail to you're a bigot, so just keep trying!! make sure to feel guilty abt it at least, you dirty homo. but getting beat up can be a cool sexual thing and bestiality or noncon is fine. but actual genitalia "preferences" are bigoted. if you don't call the genderqueer person pansexual instead of bi they'll chew their own arm off and hit you with it and call the cops but don't say you're a female trans man or that you're a trans guy lesbian or link it to being a female homosexual in any way ever okay?! you can't be at peace with acknowledging your sex/agab as a trans person!!!! or feel a connection to lesbian spaces as a trans man or gay male spaces as a trans woman!!! that's BIGOTRY and that's just feeding terf cunts you dumb theyfab. you can't link your cis womanhood to being afab AT ALL either bc that's transmisogynistic and dangerous rhetoric but every other group of gender marginalized folks can define their own identities and have a billion microlabels. you can't say you're not into girldick because not all trans women have dicks dumbass, surgical vaginas are defo the exact same as bio vaginas anyway so if you only like afab pussy & afab bodies you're a gross pervert mocking bottom surgery. and someone's upbringing as a male/amab or female/afab person definitely isn't a huge part of why homosexual ppl are into the same-sex/agab so you shouldn't give a single shit if a transbian flirting with you hasn't grown up facing misogyny or going thru afab/female body struggles or any of that, that has NOTHING to do with lesbianism between female ppl and has no bearing whatsoever on attraction you absolute psychopath. sexes/agabs is just a mix of detached body parts and you can play mr potatohead with it all and if you glued it good enough homosexuals wouldn't be able to tell at all that he used to be a mrs potatohead!! so they'd still hit that, right? homosexuals will go for anything anyway right?? homosexual love obvs can't be any deeper than genitals and fetishes. amab4afab ppl can be homosexual too anyway if they pass as gay irl too so homosexual isn't even a real tangible thing anyways it doesn't involve sex/agab at all and those ppl don't get to be their own specific oppressed class and do their own activism and have agency over their own identity bc they're super privileged worldwide and the enby living as a gender conforming woman in society dating a neckbeard looking for a third is more oppressed than a visibly gnc crossdressing bio guy holding hands with his normie bf. they might be gay but they're not qweer... except to the rightwing ofc!! oh and if you're trans and recently started passing as straight you're more privileged than an afab4amab couple who has lived as hetero til they transitioned! so shut the fuck up and listen to the New Gays. don't call yourself homosexual anymore or you're a cis bootlicker and if you're transmasc you're oppressing every transfem, including ones who have never faced misogyny irl a day in their fucking life!!! just be valid the RIGHT WAY!!!!!! be more queer you dirty normie homo!!!!!!

HAHAH i love it here