#at least in season 5 people cared and he was given help

[m4ndysk4nkovich]

i always get pissed off when people are like “season 4 is the best ian season! he’s so hot!” because i’ve seen so many people say that and like… the best? did we watch the same show?

he was extremely traumatized, homeless at one point, working at a club (at 17), doing drugs and getting roofied at the club (and acting like getting roofied was normal for him- which it probably was), was basically prostituting himself, had undiagnosed bipolar disorder, and also “i didn’t like starving myself to fit into that gold thong”.

it’s so weird how romanticized that era is because to me all i see is just a victimized literal CHILD who was failed by every adult in his life. that man mickey beat up in 4x07 was going to rape ian, and again, when ian woke up he was totally normal about it. barely anyone even cared when ian ran away and i wish they did because he was in so much danger, and i get people think that him being skinny and in tight clothes is hot but again- he’s a CHILD and a victim.

[lillybearrie]

Hello I would like to remind everyone that the first (technically second if you wanna get really technical but who cares) thing we heard from fable was

"Release Me,

You are free of Enderian, now focus on purpose"

Directed at Icarus

"Now focus on your purpose"????? WHAT HAPPENED TO "HI" "HELLO" "HOW ARE YOU MY SON"

BECAUSE NEWSFLASH SIR THAT'S NOT HOW YOU TALK TO YOUR FUCKING CHILD

THEY AREN'T A FUCKING ROBOT TO TAKE AND CARRY OUT YOUR ORDERS THAT'S YOUR GODDAMN KID!

PEOPLE TREATED SEVEN WITH MORE FAMIARITY AND RESPECT

no offense to seven great guy rip man BUT STILL

Anyway on to actual analysis

After reading this note, several deductions can be made about our antagonist's character right off the bat, which in season 3 we see to be accurate assumptions

First of all the sending of the note "release me" constantly at the beginning of every reset presumably for the past several ones gives us a base line of a few things A) whoever wrote it is trapped B) they really want out C) whomever was to recive the note presumably can help with this D) this person is either very angry and resorting to formal wording as a form of passive aggression or they are simply a very formal person Had this not been the case they would have written "let me out" or "get me out" or even "help me"

Now for the post-corruption portion

"You are free of Enderian"

1) this person knows Enderian 2) This person knows at least of Icarus 3) They intentionally have been sending these to Icarus 4) despite being trapped they have some way to know what is going on 5) their particular view of Enderian is not favorable it's not overtly antagonistic however this is the one part of the not that can be read as at least partially sympathetic to Icarus

Finally "Now focus on your purpose"

1) they don't see Icarus as anything but a means to an end 2) tone wise it feels like both the chastisement of a child and an order to an unthinking being 3) "your purpose" seemingly refers to the prior statement of "release me" either implying that the writer believes Icarus is only here to get them out of wherever they are or that Icarus's sole purpose in life is to aid and assist them and 4) the use of "now" after the previous statement implies they view the corruption arc as simply something that was inhibiting the progression of them being let out

First off once again SIR THAT IS YOUR CHILD YOU MOTHERFUCKER-

In conclusion deductions that can be made from this note with the knowledge that i now hold are as follows: Fable wanted out of purgatory, they issued Icarus with the fulfillment of this task and saw the corruption arc as merely a speed bump on the road of getting his ass outta there. Fable is a pretentious douchebag. Like everyone else in his life Fable is constantly using his own son as a means to achieving his end goal.

Other notes:

Had Fable's motivations not been his underlying obsession with keeping what he believes is "his" even when it disrupts and disregards the rules of the universe and the sanctity of life he likely wouldn't have given 2 shits about Icarus.

If we view Fable's interactions with others through the lense of him thinking of those of the overworld as "his" his people his creations his world then it starts to become clearer that he only sees individuals as tools and for their potential usefulness to him. And if we want to take this view even further we could even say that he at least on some level viewed Alerion giving a place for his deceased mortals to restate something akin to how a child views their sibling stealing a toy from their room, which then implies that the war of the gods is just a big temper tantrum where Fable hurt his brother then his other siblings stepped in and went "hey woah man not cool you can hit Al dude he is literally just playing the game" to which Fable's response was to hurt them as well and now he's just got out of timeout and basically started blaming his parents for everything wrong in his life which is so silly goofy of him until you remember that these were people he was upset about his brother "stealing" from him and it becomes less silly goofy.

"But Lilly!" I hear you say because you've totally read this far, mhm definitely "If he doesn't actually care about the dead people, then why does he act nice? Why is his charisma stat so high?" Well to that I say is it easier to keep someone in one spot when you make them believe this is where they wanna be or when they know the whole truth?

[queenvidal]

Welcome To The Sanctuary

Negan x Reader (Rick’s Daughter)

Chapter 1: Something Eerie

Chapter Summary: It was supposed to be just another pickup day - not a nightmare. Rick is ready to strike against Negan, but all war efforts come to a complete stop, when the life of the woman both men care about the most is on the line.

Wordcount: 2157

Era: Season 7

- Part 5 of the The One And Only Series -

Chapter Index: Chapter 1 / Chapter 2 / Chapter 3 / Chapter 4 / Chapter 5 - COMING SOON!

Masterlist / Negan x Rick's Daughter Series

It’s late in the morning, when a small convoy of trucks makes its way down the deserted roads. 

The Saviors are heading to their bosses favorite community. Negan is almost mindlessly driving behind one of the trucks, watching the all too familiar suburb passing by his windows. Today is pickup day for Alexandria and he can’t wait to see what Prick’s people got him this time. It better be good after all the trouble his son caused last week. 

It probably won't be much, he muses. Not that he cares too much about it but the town is now short of three more people. It certainly has to put their scavengers under even more pressure. But then again, Rick and especially his Sweet-Thing had to deal with even worse conditions in the past, when coordinating their teams and if anyone can get shit done, it’s her.

After the events of last week's pickup, Negan had to think of her constantly. She must have known about Spencer's plans or at least had to have a suspicion, given how stressed she was, when he first approached them. What a slimy asshole and a coward on top. There is no doubt in his mind his Sunshine would have killed him for what he tried to do. Luckily she didn’t have to lift a finger, she is already close enough to getting exiled as it is and also Negan was more than willing to lend a hand in that matter. 

As much as he can't stand Rick, he's got to admit that he's doing a good job - that is keeping his people alive and scavenging good stuff. Also he is well experienced from his years outside of that town and kept so many people alive during that time. That knowledge is priceless in times like this and Negan actually respects him for it. That Spencer really thought he'd not just be as good but even better than Rick as a leader is not only astonishing but also downright pathetic. That asshole got what he deserved. 

Still, there is one thing from this whole ordeal that’s still leaving a bitter taste in Negan's mouth and that is the death of the fat woman. He disliked her and was never subtle about it but he knew she was somewhat close to his Sunshine and although it was Arat’s decision to take her out, he still feels sorry for Y/N. 

He can’t forget that burning anger in her eyes, when she glared at that bitch that tried to shoot him. He'd be lying if he said he wasn’t at least a little bit turned on by the sight of it, as out of place as it was. After all his Sweet-Thing is hot as hell when she’s pissed and she’s been seething. 

Negan can’t help but smile at that memory. He’s so excited to see her again. It surprised him how much he actually enjoyed their little game of hide and seek. It made the whole affair even more enticing. Still he’s glad people somehow found out eventually. Hopefully this will result in more time with her than rushed quickies every now and then. Given the new circumstances, Negan decided to retire his RV for the time being and left it in The Sanctuary. There is no need for it anymore and her bedroom will do just fine. He really can’t wait to take his time with her.

Finally the high walls of Alexandria are slowly coming into view and the head of the Saviors  focuses back onto the road ahead of him. Slowly the gate opens up, making way for the convoy. Negan scans the guards standing on the wall but his Sunshine is nowhere to be seen. She’s not on duty right now it seems. 

The trucks drive through the gate onto the parking lot and Negan stops his car right on top of the convoy. The Saviors gather around their vehicles, ready to go through today's pickup. Negan jumps out of his car, shutting the door shut. 

Uncomfortableness is creeping up his spine immediately - Something is wrong. 

Somehow he has the feeling that something is off but Negan just can’t put his finger on it and it's making him feel quite uneasy. Suddenly on high alert, he's looking around the area. Usually around this time Alexandrians would roam the street, watching the activities but the streets are empty. 

Except for one person. 

“Ah, Rick!” Negan calls the approaching man with a bright smile that quickly dies again. The closer Rick gets, the more his sorry state becomes visible. The man looks like he’s seen a ghost. His skin is pale, only accentuating the redness of his sunken eyes. The hell happened to him?

Once he’s reached the Saviors, Rick greets them with a weak nod of his head. “Negan. Your stuff’s at the pantry.” 

A frown settles on Negan's face. Rick’s not meeting his eyes and while that’s nothing out of the ordinary, in fact it’s quite welcome, it still seems off. The other man’s not avoiding his gaze like he used to but is just staring into the void. What the hell is going on here? After another quick glance around the area, still not seeing his Sweet-Thing, Negan asks, “Where’s Y/N?”

Rick swallows hard. After a moment, he states. “She’s out scouting.”

This statement only adds to the distressing feeling in Negan’s gut. Rick is so obviously lying. She would never go out scouting with a different car than her stupid Mini. The Mini that is clearly sitting in the far corner of the parking lot. 

Negan takes one step closer to Rick, his eyes narrowing. But before he can confront Rick about his observations, he sees a woman appearing in the corner of his eye. She’s stepping out of the infirmary. That’s one of Sunshine’s team, he realizes. The woman is crying and wiping her tears. Blood is dripping from her hands.

Negan’s eyes switch between her and Rick. Something is going on. After one final glance at the other man who’s still not meeting his eyes, Negan gets moving. He pushes himself past Rick without a word, heading for the infirmary. Rick’s about to say something but when he sees Sasha standing on the porch, he keeps his mouth shut, following Negan with his head down.

Knots tighten in Negan's chest. The air feels tense, almost eerie. There is not a single person in sight and the whole town is silent. Only the sound of boots moving over the gravel can be heard. It’s quite goosebumps inducing. The head of the Saviors tries to calm himself down, he can’t have his nerves get the better of him. 

When they reach the porch, Sasha moves out of their way to the side. She looks at Rick, even more tears are running down her cheeks when she slowly shakes her head at him. Negan can’t see Rick's reaction but at the moment he doesn’t care. All he wants is to find out what’s going on. With the unpleasant feeling in his gut quickly growing, he opens the door and moves inside.

Once through the door, the man is being hit with the pungent smell of blood. His nose crinkles to its own accord and he is met with another puffy red eye. Rick's boy is sitting on a chair next to a cot, looking up at him with a tear stained face, holding the hand of the person lying there. 

When Negan's eyes eventually wander to the cot, he stops dead in his tracks. Sunshine. Negan almost forgot how to breathe. There is so much blood. 

"It's been an accident." Rick's small voice sounds behind the boss, but he barely registers the other man. Negan moves forward, coming to stand right next to Carl. The boy doesn’t say a word, only holding the hand of his sister in silence.

Negan’s eyes roam over her. His Sunshine is almost unrecognizable, the way she's lying there, completely still, unconscious. Her skin is so pale, almost gray. Bandages are wrapped around her exposed middle but there is still so much blood on her, the cot, the equipment. A rusty metal rod on the cart catches Negan's attention briefly but he quickly moves his eyes back to the big crimson red spot on her belly.

"It happened so fast." Rick tries to explain, "We couldn't-"

"Got a doc or something?" Negan cuts him off immediately, his eyes not leaving her.

Rick’s just looking at his daughter. "She's… she’s our medic.”

Negan’s clenching his jaw. A quiet fuck is leaving his lips as he’s running his ungloved hand through his hair, still taking all of this in. 

She’s dying. 

Once that thought passes his mind, Negan snaps back from his spinning mind. He moves his attention back to her father, “Prepare her for transport. I’m taking her with us.”

“No-” Rick is about to argue, but there is no room nor time for a debate right now.

“I see you still don't understand what your daughter means to me, Rick.” Negan states in a serious tone, towering over the other man. “I’ve got a doc and a clinic. She’s coming with me.” 

“I'm coming with you.” Surprised, both men look at the boy. “So she won't be alone.” 

After a short moment of consideration, Negan agrees and nods at him. “Fine. Pack her some things.” Carl carefully places his sister's hand on the cot again, before quickly rushing out of the room. Negan turns his head back towards Rick again. “You get her ready,” he orders, before brushing past him, getting his car.

Rick watches him leave before moving his attention back to his daughter again. Slowly he comes closer, taking her hand in his. His eyes well up again as he looks at her. He raises her hand to his lips, praying to any God who cares to listen, to make her stay, to not take her away. “I love you so much,” he whispers against her skin. It pains him so much to see her like that.

After a new wave of tears are threatening to stream down his face, Rick realizes he has to get going. With as much care as he can muster, he puts a blanket around his daughter, wrapping her up into a cocoon before slowly lifting her up into his arms. Cautiously he hugs her against his chest. “Please don't leave us, Y/N.”

Eventually Rick starts moving, bringing his daughter outside. Sasha is sitting on the railing, still fighting the tears, trying to take a breath and calm down. She offers to help him but Rick doesn't seem to notice her as he’s passing her by without a word. Negan parked his car right in front of the house, Carl is already waiting next to it with a duffel bag in his hand. 

Rick walks down the steps attentively, going towards the car. Negan, who just finished instructing Simon to carry on with the pickup, comes closer, ready to take over but Rick moves past him. Carl quickly opens the door before helping his father to slowly and carefully lay his sister down onto the back seat of the car. Rick tugs her in one more time, whispering to her to keep fighting, to please wake up again, before he has to reluctantly let go of her.

As much as he hates Negan and as much as he distrusts him with every fiber of his being, if that man can save her, he will swallow all his hatred up. He’d do everything in and beyond his power for her. All he wants is for his daughter to open her eyes again.

Negan comes to stand next to Rick, looking at him with something close to compassion in his features, “Whatever happens, either way, I’ll let you know.” He's reaching out his hand, offering the other man a two-way radio.

Rick only nods silently, taking it. After one final look at his daughter, he's moving away. Negan lets out a sharp whistle, gaining Carl's attention. “Jump in.” The boy does as he’s been told, hopping into the passenger seat while Negan hurries onto his. 

The engine roars to life as they quickly take off and hit the road. Rick watches them drive out of the gate. His heart is shattering into a million pieces. This feels way too much like a last goodbye.

Sasha’s slowly approaching him. She puts her hand on his shoulder in a comforting gesture, but there is nothing that can console him. 

Negan is racing down the streets as fast as he can. Adrenaline is rushing through his veins. Please, let it not be too late. It’s dead silent in the car. Now more than ever is he afraid of noises. 

Dreading to hear the tell-tale sound of quiet groaning. 

Chapter Index: Chapter 1 / Chapter 2 / Chapter 3 / Chapter 4 / Chapter 5 - COMING SOON!

Masterlist / Negan x Rick's Daughter Series

Taglist: @starry-night-20 / @joceymoo / @srhxpci / @ladykxxx08 / @sunneeflower / @frombloodandflesh / @aleeeesa /@lanamiller / @fanfic-n-tabulous / @noirfan12 / @abbiesxox / @elinafresk / @obsessiveformiyatwins / @kokushibosgirl / @syrma-sensei / @oceandolores

[thewoollyviking]

There’s something that’s been bothering me about discussing the finale to SU (the finale to the main series that is, not future) that I hear often.

Namely, that Steven’s success in getting the Diamonds, especially White, to change their ways is meant to be a sort of escapist fantasy where you can somehow reach out to your bigoted, hyper conservative family and get them to change their mind.

For a while I was sympathetic to that. I understand that in the last few years a lot of people, especially anybody living in the US, have had to cut ties with their family for one reason or another, and that this ending can be comforting. Perhaps even enough to inspire hope that maybe one day, they themselves could do the same with their friends or family.

But in the last few years I just feel like this need to cling to that fantasy has aged poorly and might even be more harmful than hopeful.

I wonder how many people watched the show and thought that if they just said the right thing or had the right argument, they could reach out to that person they had to ghost for a while and pull them out of that rabbit hole.

But whenever I do hear about or talk to people who have tried to do that, who try to talk them out and change their mind, all I hear about is how emotionally draining it is. How much that person just hurts them bu basically spitting in their face. Ever since 2020 these people have just become impossible to talk to because they aren’t interested in having their mind changed.

If you have a friend or family member that traded their principles for a red hat, they’re not going to care about your arguments.

The people who stay and try to get those people to change just keep hurting themselves. And the people they’re trying to reach out to are either too lost in the sauce to see how they’re hurting them, or they do know and revel in it.

It’s why I can’t help but feel like Steven was kind of coddled by the narrative and given an easy out (most likely because CN was threatening to pull the plug after the Garnet Wedding) to make for a nicer ending to the story.

But in a way it cheapens other elements of the story. Are we to assume then that Rose could have reasoned with White and simply didn’t try as hard as Steven had? Did Steven just come off as more convincing and charismatic than Rose? Is the nonstop demonization of Rose after season 5 suggesting that Rose should never have ran away and instead should have stayed to suffer under the Diamonds abuse in the slim hope that she could get them to understand her?

What was so special about Steven that Rose lacked in getting them to finally change?

I don’t like the idea of this element of the story, the confrontation with the apathetic, abusive family of the protagonist’s mother, feeling like it has to end on such a perfect fairy tale ending when so much they had been everything but that.

We kept all that emotional ugliness and drama when it came to Rose and how losing her affected Steven’s family. Why choose to have the Diamonds walk away thinking they can be a happy family now with Steven, and why is Steven coddling them by letting them think they can have him be their stand-in for Rose without having to accept that she’s gone because of them?

Why not keep it here? Why not show that people like Rose and Steven don’t need to always change the minds of or gain the approval of people like White. That sometimes the best we can do is just to try and get away, cut ties, and strike out on your own for your own sake because they will never. stop. hurting you.

But if you can, the best you can do is try to take away whatever power that abuser is using over others. Not necessarily by killing them, but at least by making it so that they could never hurt somebody ever again.

That should have been how Steven dealt with White. Having to bitterly accept that she’d be a hateful, abusive piece of shit no matter what he said. But at least Yellow and Blue, two of Rose’s family who had thousands of years of grief to process before getting called out for their role in Rose’s abuse, would want to help in making things right.

It would not be a perfect fairy tale ending, but that would have at least been one that better handled the Diamonds as villains.

Because they are. And that’s something this fandom seems to have forgotten and instead in a confused stupor seemed to have slapped onto Rose.

[sevensoulmates]

Season 7 Press Article Buddie Analysis

Okay I don't usually write meta/spec on press runs/articles but I found these super fascinating today, especially in comparison to how the showrunners (including Tim himself) and the actors have spoken about their arcs in the past.

First I want to say that in these interviews the goal is never actually to give the audience any important information but rather to tease, and purposely be as vague as possible. So most of what they're saying will likely have double meanings and all of them are being extremely careful with the words they choose to say. Now with that out of the way in the first EW article (linked here), I found several things extremely interesting.

Calling Marisol Eddie's "Hardware store flirtation". It's so funny to me, for one, but it's also interesting that that's all she's reduced to. A flirtation. I know that was really all they were in the last season, but we know Marisol's involved (likely minorly) in at least 2 episodes out of the first 5. Natalia on the other hand is for the most part understood to not be coming back (I would honestly be surprised given the actress is in NYC). But what's even more interesting is that Marisol is not mentioned anywhere else in either of these articles, meanwhile Oliver WAS asked about Natalia. So, I want people to keep in mind that in whatever way Marisol IS a part of this season, I SEVERELY doubt she's making it past the finale.

2. This answer about Natalia is your typical non-answer but to me, it's basically a confirmation she isn't coming back, which lends a tad bit more credibility to Tommy potentially stepping in as a LI for Buck (fingers crossed).

3. Buck is apparently called in to help talk to Christopher about dating women. Do I even really have to talk about how weird this sounds? Eddie had a whole WIFE? He dated Ana for many many months. He's currently dating hardware store flirtation Marisol right now. And yet, Ryan is claiming that Eddie feels like he doesn't know how to talk to his son about women? Enough so that he calls Buck to help? Talking to your kid about dating is a new avenue yes, but why are we acting like Eddie has never been with a woman before? Like I know last season in particular emphasized that Eddie isn't the best when it comes to dating but like ??? I swear to GOD y'all it's giving such severe compulsory heterosexuality. Eddie, my man, I hope this is indicative of where your story is going this season because it's been heading this way for many many many years. Separately, I also find the lack of mention of Shannon very interesting as well.

4. Which brings me to this part. The whole family dynamic aside...Buck's romantic relationships have been severely questionable at best the entire show. Before Abby, it's canon that all Buck did was sleep around a lot, which doesn't seem like something you wanna tell a young teen dating for the first time. So what's he gonna talk about? How women flee him? As I saw someone else say on the timeline "are the successful relationships in the room with us"? This is especially odd if the spec is true and he and Natalia broke up off-screen prior to the start of the season. Eddie, you just saw Buck have yet another failed relationship with woman #4 and your thought is that HE'S the one best suited to talk to your son? These two men are so queer and so dumb, but their hearts are in the right place.

Okay, moving on to EW article #2 linked here. Here I'm shifting a little bit more to Tim Minear, and what he's said before in the past as showrunner about Buck, Eddie, the buddifer dynamic and the buddie ship.

I have a love-hate relationship with Tim. On one hand, I think he's a far better showrunner than Kristen (for OG 911, 911 Lonestar does and always will suck ass). But on the other hand, I remember some of the things he said back when season 2 was airing. It's part of the reason why I can't take things like "he's so cute. he gets that a lot" or "does this boycrush on eddie mean you're over abby" or "you two have an adorable son" or any Big Buddie fanservice line in season 2 seriously or as any definitive proof of anything. Tim has openly admitted most of those were in season 2 to throw shippers a bone. Not to be taken seriously. And that didn't sit right with me. Very obviously, there was a shift in season 3 and no longer was buddie and shippers the butt of the joke. Season 3 is when I genuinely think the writers and Tim shifted from "haha this is funny" to "oh wait, maybe there IS something here" and obviously The Powers That Be (Fox) had some control over whether or not that happened and is honestly why I think it didn't happen in season 5 or 6 where it realistically could've fit very well after s4.

So firstly, please take everything I say with a grain of salt because Tim is a Known Liar and Word Twister and is very VERY good at saying a lot while absolutely saying nothing at all.

5. So...I find what he says in this article interesting because it's not in the first article. First, his word choice is very interesting. Using both "friendship" and "coupling" in the same sentence, which have two different connotations. Secondly, he says that "at their core" their relationship is about their friendship. When something is the core of something else, that doesn't mean that's all there is. The core may be the essence, or the foundation, or the glue of something. But it is something that is BUILT UPON, something that extends past the core. To me, it means that while the core of buddie's relationship is their friendship, their relationship encompasses much more than that. It's like those successful old married couples who say the key to being married happily for 50+ years is that "we're still best friends" or that "the key to a successful romantic relationship is having that foundation of strong friendship" etc. Now, I'm not SAYING this means canon buddie, but I just find it interesting that this is how Tim chose to describe them this time around. To me, that says Tim is very much aware that there's far more to be explored in their relationship than just their friendship. Whether that means far more buddifer family arcs, or an actual real exploration of Buck and Eddie as a romantic couple, I'm very excited to see where it goes.

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

Look, I like the high Jonathan storyline, but they really could have cut back on it some. For instance, the dinner after El hit Angela with a skate. . .he should have been sober for that and gone to have a talk with El after Mike upset her. He should have given her a similar speech he gave Will, more personalized to whatever sibling relationship Jonathan and El had formed, but the basis would have remained the same. I really wish they hadn't put in that acceptance letter bit where Jonathan lied to Nancy. That could have been taken out. I don't see how it's even going to be a factor in season 5 or if anyone's going to care with everything that's going on. There are some parts of season 4 that I like, but you can definitely tell that there was this huge gap that they had to take off because of Covid. Honestly, season 4 is so messy. Will also should have had some moments with El and Jonathan. I hope to see more of Will outside of Mike with El as well. I just feel like they've made Will and El's entire identity Mike. I like Mike, but let's see Will focused on something else for once. Let's see him spending more time with his sister, his other friends, let's see him helping out and coming up with plans. No, I don't think El and Mike are endgame. I think they're definitely going to break up, but I fully support the people who do. I do want to see El being single, finding herself, and Will finding himself as well. I kind of want to see Mike being the one pining and being jealous as Will explores his options (no, not with Chance) but with someone. But they also both still find time to be there for Mike as he grieves for Eddie. I do want to see Mike being Mike again. I would like to see the three of them together and not worry about what's going to happen romantically for at least one scene. I'm sorry, how did I get here? I started out talking about El and Jonathan? Lol.

[celestialwu]

Equal redemption?

But first I want to mention that this is not an analysis about season 5, but about Sun Wukong and Macaque, and that maybe I can express my point of view as to why they are practically almost the same, ok?

Okay, look, I didn't really like Macaque's "redemption", it was very quick and I can say that I didn't get very attached to the character, but he was very important in this season, but I still see him just as a character that is there but that I don't care much about, but anyway. Did you notice how Sun Wukong and Macaque literally had almost the same redemption?

I know it sounds really weird but I think I might be right.

First, Sun Wukong: What we know about Wukong is that he became the Monkey King on pure impulse, but we know that he is a celestial prodigy and that he wanted to live a life of peace and meet the sun with Macaque and his monkeys.

And as Azura said, Wukong could become the next emperor, becoming immortal again.

But with the plan failing, and them losing, Sun Wukong is trapped in a mountain for 500 years by the Bhuda, which resulted in the fight that Macaque and Sun Wukong had, which was out of pure hatred for Wukong, and Macaque's anger for him not listening to him about this war.

And that's when things start to make sense with what I want to say.

As we know, Guanyin, the Goddess of Mercy, was responsible for protecting the Pilgrims traveling to the West, and for that she chose Sun Wukong as one of these Pilgrims, and guess who was also chosen to help in the plan of another "Goddess"?

Then starting with Macaque; we know the same thing happened with Sun Wukong. He wanted to live a quiet life with Wukong on the mountain.

And well, it didn't work out. Wukong was taken and they fight.

But apparently, they fought again at the end of the journey, and this could trigger him and he "dies" at the hands of Wukong.

So we already have two things in common: Both were overthrown by gods and were hired for a "plan" of a super powerful goddess.

And well they would be punished if they did not fulfill their part of the agreement they made to be free.

And meanwhile, when they were released, they met someone who was willing to give them a second chance and live in peace and without regrets in their lives.

I know there are people who say that Tribaka is abusive and stuff. But I can say that he was the key to Wukong having his redemption.

And may I remind you, Wukong was a serious killer. Yes, he had his reasons for attacking those who tried to kill his master, and that most demons were horrible to be around.

But well, with Tribaka helping Wukong improve as a person, using the diagram when necessary, and teaching Wukong the path of peace and love. Macaque had Mk who wouldn't give up on him, and doing his best to invite him to his gang so that they would all be free from LBD.

In this Macaque probably had an off-screen "redemption", which I believe was not a good idea, since it seems that he changed his personality out of nowhere, well for me it was like that. But, continuing, Mk did everything to help Macaque, Mk cared about Macaque, even with all the horrible things Macaque did, Mk knew that he was not exactly the bad guy. And that they had to join forces with the one who was really their enemy at the moment.

And Mk kind of proved himself right.

Macaque isn't a bad guy given how he's evolved over the seasons, but he still causes discomfort, but not much.

Mk was the key to Macaque evolving, and becoming at least someone he can talk to without having to get three rocks in the face.

As Tribaka was also the key to Sun Wukong not being someone feared but rather someone loved by many people who appreciate his work as a hero.

But now I think if the thing is they are also the same, they are also different.

And I tell them that they are probably their moral values.

Sun Wukong is afraid that things will get out of control, he wants everything to work out for everyone, he knows that if he is not the hero they call him he will fail, he wanted the plan against LBD to work out so that he could go back to paying for his mountain and rest assured that everything is over.

And one of the reasons he (probably) improvises.

But that's the thing, when things get out of control, he takes responsibility for everything himself. Sometimes I think he might even become a perfectionist when that happens. This makes him vulnerable, and he doesn't like that.

Macaque on the other hand, knows that things are going to get out of control, but doesn't do much about it.

I'm not saying he couldn't do it, but I believe he already knew beforehand that LBD was going to win, and he'd rather use that to his advantage than make the same mistake he made in the past.

And that's why he manipulates, for him all that matters is getting rid of LBD's guards, even if it's one of his agreements, he wanted to stay as far away from her as possible. And in this case he's willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen.

Whether bringing prizes

or saying that your friends will leave you.

And he wanted freedom, but he did it in the worst possible way, and he was really willing to do it until the end. But the moment he sees that his actions are turning against him. He runs away, because it was better to deal with this headache once the dust settles than to stop him for now.

Well, these two in my opinion have similar pain, and they need help. They suffer from abandonment, punishments, trouble trusting people, one of them who is almost perfect is not the one who destroyed everything again, and the other one has a calm life and freedom.

They have different personalities, but it's that "Different personalities, same pain" thing and I hope there will be more of them in the next seasons.

[mx-loar-tev]

So, about that fic idea of time traveller/serial killer JJ...

I'm toying with plot ideas.

1. Who would end up on her kill list?

Hastings, Askari and Doyle are the one that would take priority in S6. There are also the ones that JJ would feel the most justified to kill.

Izzy, the bank robbers and the other guy (forgot his name) in Hit/Run would definitely anger her so much that she could decide to preemptively get rid of them before they attack the bank in Washington. Not only she almost lost Will (the guy got shot and almost blown up twice), her son was taken hostage and she had to violently fight in front of him in their home. Her maternal instincts might push her to kill Izzy at the very least. Especially if she had already murdered three people in cold blood before that.

I'd need to rewatch the show, especially seasons 6 to 8 to see who could be on her kill list, but there's another name that come to mind: Diane Turner, the woman that stalked and killed Maeve. JJ had seen how devastated Spence had been after Meave's death, so of course she would do everything to save her and give them the opportunity to date.

The replicator is also someone that could be on the list. After all he tried to kill them all and succeeded with Strauss. I don't think JJ liked Strauss that much, even after she got sober, but the section chief is still "one of them". She also saw what Strauss' death did on Rossi, and for that only the replicator deserves to be on the list. He might not be her easiest target though.

2. About the cases:

With the amount of cases she worked on for over a decade, I think it would be hard for her to remember and keep track of it all. I'm sure she'd try to use the Intel she remembers to help with the case and save more victims, but the load of work that would come from trying to PREVENT all these crimes from happening is way to much for a single person.

Maybe there's some cases that sticked to her though, maybe she could focus on these ones if she wants to prevent them. But she can't save everyone and I'm sure it'd impact her mood severely to realise that.

I think she has a notebook written in code where she put every nugget of informations she can remember, along with ideas of how to approach each situation.

3. The butterfly effect.

Each time she changes something, kills someone that would have lived in the original time line, it has unpredictable repercussions. After a while, it would be hard to predict for JJ what would happen then. And sure, saving people's life is good. But there's no way to predict if someone else isn't going to hurt the person JJ just saved. Or just create an chain of events that would ends in tears and pain. It think at some point JJ would be overwhelmed by it all.

4. Lying to the team.

We know JJ is a great liar. Probably the best liar in the team. Her teammates failed countless times to see through her lies. But no one is perfect, especially with the amount of lies JJ would need to keep track of. I'm not sure yet how she would react from the worried and/or suspicious stares from her teammates. She'd be in a lot of pressure, that's for sure, so maybe she might slip at some point. And when you're surrounded by profiler, that can be a fatal mistake.

5. Her pregnancy.

If she killed Askari and Hastings before her humvee was blown and she miscarried, she probably would have given birth to that child. Her pregnancy and taking care of a newborn would impact the story and her ability to keep going with her mission.

6. Romance.

Sorry, I needed to put that here.

I'm quite flexible on who I ship JJ with. I'm a die-hard jemily shipper, I'll admit, but I think Will is okay even if he's not perfect.

I don't like writing Will as a bad guy, but that doesn't mean I can't write them breaking up for some reasons (JJ's odd behaviour since she arrived in the past and went on a killing spree might damage her marriage.) So that's a possibility, I guess.

But I also love the idea of polyamory. Though I'm already going that route in the fic I'm currently writing so I might want to try something else.

I could just not focus on a ship. Not every fic needs to be shippy. After all, the main interest of this fic is JJ, her psychology, the way she interacts with everyone in her life. There'd also be a huge chunk focusing on motherhood since she'd be pregnant.

Thinking about it, JJ being aromantic is something I haven't explored yet. That could be fun to write.

I haven't decided what I gonna do in that department yet.

7. How it'll end.

Or more exactly, what tone do I want to give to that story?

I mean, it'll probably be dark. But do I want a happy ending for JJ?

Even if she feels justified, what she does is morally blackish grey. That plus the weight of the lies and the amount of work that double life would require would be enough to burn her out. Once she stepped into the darkness it would be a downward spiral.

On the other hand, I like the idea of girlboss JJ being a successful charitable hitman/vigilante. I want her to have a little Deadpool vibe (sans sexual jokes and 4th wall breaking). I want her to find a confortable place where she's okay with what she's doing, even if it requires unsavoury methods.

Regardless of her state of mind, should the story end badly for her? Would her teammates find out about her? Would they arrest her? Would she escape? Would she be killed?

Or would she thrive in her new side work and remain undetected by her fellow profilers?

Would she stay at the BAU, considering she had become an unsub herself?

Do I want a happy ending? A sad one? A bittersweet one?

Thanks for reading through my musings.

If you have ideas or want to discuss that story, feel free to leave a comment/reblog and comment/send me an ask.

[thegoldheartlocketandkey-blog]

It’s been made pretty clear by the fandom, not just Buddie Shippers, that we aren’t really fans of who Buck and Eddie end up with in the finale.

The biggest issue I have with the pairings is that they weren’t worked up, they kind of just showed up and we have no reason to care about them.

If these women are supposed to be endgame, at least give us ample reason to support the choice.

Natalia: They really screwed up her character because there was so much potential in making her interesting and someone we would like to get to know. She’s a death dula and Buck died. Instead of having her tell Buck that it’s so “cool” that he died they could of had her play an active role in having him process his death. I mean they still have the opportunity to do that but after they gave us a cringe date, a recycled story line, but with less depth, they gave us too many reasons to dislike her as a character for me to even see that play out.

They made the same mistake they made with Lucy. Instead of having Natalia be a friend to Buck they force her to be a love interest which adds nothing new to bucks character.

But imagine Buck’s character development if Natalia was a friend. He would have gone from Buck 1.0 ( The guy who only does hook ups), to Buck 2.0 (the guy who just ends up in relationships) to Buck 3.0 (the guy who chooses himself and is able to be friends with a woman).

We can also address the fact that there is a lack of chemistry between Buck and Natalia. The kiss in the finale was awkward and not in a cute endearing way. I will say, I love that she doesn’t look like she could be related to Buck. I’m willing to see their relationship play out during season 7, but I just can’t see it being the end game.

Marisol: Where did she come from. What do you mean this is the girl that has Eddie acting like a middle schooler. She came out of nowhere and we know almost nothing about her, besides the fact that she fixes her brother’s mistakes.

I rewatched Season 6, Episode 5: Home Invasion, where we are first introduced to Marisol and after watching the episode, I believe the fan theory that her brother’s rescue was originally written as a boyfriend being rescued. But after the scenes where already filmed, the writers decided she’d be the love interest so they re-recorded the audio of the scene. I’m serious go back and watch her emergency, there is something off about it.

Marisol to me feels like another Ana. No substance, no reason for me to care about her. They both barely interacted, so their phone call makes less sense the more you think about it.

The same episode where Eddie is told he can’t look for love, he finds what he’s “been looking for”. This feels like Eddie is again only doing what he thinks he is supposed to do. Instead of processing his feelings of loneliness, he’s doing what he thinks the world expects him to do and date someone. He married Shannon because he felt like he had to. He stayed with Ana because he thought it was best for Christopher. And he’s settling for Marisol because he doesn’t want to be alone. None of those reasons are good reasons to pursue someone for a serious relationship.

It’s one thing to have Eddie date because he wants to be outside his comfort zone, meet people, and have fun. It’s a completely other thing to have him date because he feels like he needs to.

The only way to make Marisol a good character is by having her be a person that helps Eddie figure that out. She helps him realize that it’s not just about the end game, but his ability to just enjoy her company and not so worried about what the end result. She can just be someone he dates because she was fun to date. A relationship that shows him that you can have someone be an important part of your journey, but not your end game. Like a summer fling.

Given the fact that the actress who plays Marisol recently reposted a transphobic meme and couldn’t even attempt a sincere apology, I hope we don’t get to see her at all in season 7. She can be explained away by Eddie mentioning her once and just saying it felt promising but she just wasn’t the one. I have no interest in see their relationship play out.

Buddie: In my opinion, the best match for Buck and Eddie will always be each other. The writers have their relationship set up as the perfect slow burn, friends to lover scenario. And even though they screwed up the finale a bit, they can easily correct their wrongs. Buck and Eddie’s chemistry is undeniable and having them end up together would play into their individual story lines so perfectly.

I need this relationship that has developed organically to flourish in Season 7.

I will continue to manifest Buddie and let me use this moment to state couch theory is not dead. Buck will just need to get rid of another couch.

[kitkatopinions]

@kitestarry Thought I'd answer this comment in its own post. :)

Ghira and Kali are very much so stereotypical "Mom and Dad" characters imo, where Kali is kind of nosy and she's comforting and she's given that "no she can hit people with pans too" thing that people give Supermoms since like 2000 so they can say they're strong women without having to do any work, and Ghira is like overprotective and tells Blake she isn't wearing enough clothes and hates Sun because he's a boy who's interested in his daughter. And I don't like the stereotypical "Mom and Dad" characterization in any setting really, but since they're only featured in two seasons and are honestly not even sort of the focus of Blake's 4-5 arc (which is much more about her, Sun, and Ilia,) they're very paper thin characters I feel like. So there isn't much else to them. But on top of that, the RWBY writers do this thing where they'll make the teenage characters do dangerous stuff but do not care to write the "caring" parental figures in their life to actually do anything about it. Like, with Willow you can at least be like "well she's an alcoholic who had an abusive husband" which doesn't mean that her complete lack of presence until V7 and her lack of action in protecting her children is fine, but it makes more sense. And when then sixteen year old Ruby left home to go after Cinder and supposedly like a year later Tai still is completely not around, we could at least say "well, he knows she's with Qrow and he might not have known how serious everything was" which isn't a good excuse, but it's at least something. But, I believe Blake ran away from home five years before the start of the show, which means she was like twelve! And she ran away to be part of a group Ghira thought was dangerous and morally wrong (which is why he left in the first place.) Like, we don't know if Blake had a good place to stay for that whole time, if she ever went hungry, and the show fully tells us she was in a bad and unsafe relationship for part of it. And where were her parents? And then the Fall of Beacon happens after Blake is on TV during the Vytal Festival, and the whole thing just makes them feel like very uncaring bad parents. There's also Ghira's whole peaceful protest 'be nice to your oppressors and they might like you' 'we need to stop faunus violence' thing. Like many Faunus characters, Ghira's a mouthpiece for the severely badly handled fantasy racism plot. It's bad on Blake, but since she has a lot more character and role outside of that, it's easy enough to just clip it out for her for me. But because Ghira has been such a small role, it's a lot harder to dismiss for him. Like if you removed that sort of thing from Ghira's character, all that you'd have left is 'over-protective dad who doesn't care about finding his twelve year old runaway but will comment on her belly shirt when she comes home."

But also, I don't write for them to be honest. Writing for characters oftentimes makes me like them more because it helps me dive into the character concept more than the oftentimes lackluster execution. There are a lot of characters I didn't like that much, but then when I write for them, I find myself really enjoying them. But my sister and I first started writing for RWBY after volume six with a fanfiction that was an AU branch off starting at the end of V5. And the only fanfictions I've written either are branches off of that branch off or are Team STRQ era fics. So... Ghira and Kali aren't really part of things in my fics ever.

So yeah, it's a combination of them being thin stereotypical parents with very little interest to them, their apparent lack of care when their twelve year old ran away, and just never writing for them so they don't get the same treatment of me fleshing them out myself that other characters who are just as thin in canon might get that make me like them more.

[originalwinnercheesecake]

Who from the ghosts pasts would it be fun to meet

We get some good episodes of ghosts (Metaphorical or literal) from the main 8's past coming back. We have met some... interesting characters, and there are some more it would still be cool to meet. So I thought I would make a list of the ghosts and who from their pasts it would be fun meet. Note I do not necessarily know how this person/ghost would come back, I just think it would be fun to see them.

Thorfinn: I do not want anybody else from Thor's past. The arc with Bjorn was sweet, and I do want it revisited in season four. But seriously Thor's old crew were jerks who left him behind. Thor hasn't once mentioned Bjorn's mother (Thor's wife???) and given that he has canonically had at least three serious relationships since becoming a ghost, it is pretty clear he has moved on from her. if hey had to they could maybe do an episode where Bjorn is able to bring his deceased wife back for a day, and introduce her to Thor. That would maybe be fun since it forces Thor to be pleasant to a danish person.... But I also think it is pretty fun that Bjorn is with Judy (50's Hetty) now, and she has expressed that she is not cool with poly life... Hopefully one day would not upset her enough to break up with Bjorn.

Sasappis: Okay anyone who we meet from Sass's life needs to be in a situation like him and Shiki, i.e. haunting some part of the Hutson sally for 500 and something years. Because otherwise 1.) It has been pointed out to me that Lenape Native Americans of their time did not speak English, so we would not be able to understand them. 2.) Dragging one of his people back from the afterlife to show them how completely settlers paved over their homes and wiped out their culture would be to cruel a thing to do.

Oh bonus because I thought of it after making my Season 4 wish list. If travel based ghost powers can be extended to other ghosts, then I would like Pete to take Sass to see Shiki again, and for afterwards Sass to return the favor by taking Pete inside of Jay's dreams and all three of them to shoot some hoops together.

Issac: I really really want to meet someone from when Issac was a living. He also curently has the most options of the ghosts. Beatrice, of course. We see in the season 2 Christmas special how great a person she was and how much she and Issac meant to each other, regardless of their less than ideal circumstances. Also given that in season 4 Issac will have to once again come to terms with a failed romantic relationship (Nigel), and a female friend whom he wronged/hurt (Patience). Well Beatrice is implied to view him with no ill will, so it could be really therapeutic for him to reconnect and further reconcile with her. If she told him she did not view Issac as a bad man, then that would help him not see himself as a bad man

In addition to Beatrice, I would also like to meet Issac's best friend Edmund. The unnamed brother Issac mentioned who had a wife and at least 5 sons, at least 2 of which died as children. We do not know if Issac was ever a father, but I imagine he was a really caring uncle. Hamilton! Please, please, can we get an episode where Hamilton's ghost shows up for a night and Issac is once again faced with his more successful rival. Bonus points if Hamilton does not know who Issac is, or have any recollection of ever meeting him.

Hetty: So far every time a new ghost has shown up for 1 episode it has been one Hetty knew. Which I guess is understandable since the house is her families, and a lot of the old junk in it belong to people she knew. But honestly episodes of them are hit or miss. The two episodes we got of Elias were one to many, and he does not need another episode. I know some fans really liked the episode with the maid; but I did not like her trying to blame Hetty for things that went down between her and Elias. It is clearly implied that she and her husband were Elias's employees and that they were hooking up before Elias and Hetty's marriage. Also it seems like the pair where hooking up many years, so why wasn't her son grown up?

For People from Hetty's life that we haven't met yet, but could meet in the future: I would really like to meet her sister, Margret. Show me what their relationship was like. How did Margret's life turn out? How did she react to Hetty's death? It also would be really cool to meet that stable boy that she and Issac both found hot. In that case though he has to be bisexual, or maybe just gay. I said in another post I wanted Thomas to have become a ghost after dying at a neighbors. But that I also wanted him to turn out to be as dumb and childlike as Lenny from "oMaM". Basically please only introduce Thomas if their is going to be a distinct difference between him and Elias. If he is just a gay version of his Hellish father, than there is no point.

Alberta: Well if Thomas is a ghost she deserves to get to rip into him for poisoning her. On that note please bring Earl back for one day so she can do the same to him. Forgetting the fact that he cheated on her with the guy that went on to murder her. It is cannon that Earl cheated on Alberta multiple times and she knew it. But he was her manager, and she could not break up with him without being dropped, so she felt she had to keep looking the other way and forgiving him. But that is not true now, and Alberta deserves a chance to tell him off like Hetty did to Elias in his debut episode. On a nicer note it would be sweet if they could resurrect Alberta's father. She could tell him about how people are still listening to her songs to this day, and he could maybe recite some recipes for Sam to write down, and Jay to start cooking for visitors. As far as Alberta's sister, well the only thing I have ever wondered about her was if Thomas ever did anything to hurt her too, since she was Earl's next girlfriend. If we see Alberta's x-times great niece again she had better be a successful web singer, taking a trip to where she first got the inspiration to follow in Alberta's foot steps.

Flower: I do want to see her brother Robby, and her ex Ira, who are still livings. If Robby has children/grand children they should come too. For ghosts she has other brothers who we do not knows current status, also if possible it would be cool to meet someone else whom she maybe knew during her time in the cult and the commune. It'd be weird to bring Michael back, since she is trying to move on from him with Thor. I have considered the ghost of the bear that killed her. The issues with a apex predator would be wild, but also I am not sure how you would wrap that up, and it would need to be wrapped up. Where do you go with a ghost bear guys?

Pete: Please no more people from Pete's past. Carol sucked. Jerry sucked. Pete's dad sucked. He is implied to have been an only child. I do not know why Laura and little Pete would ever want to again visit the place where both her parents/ his grandparents died. Lastly I found it cruel and disgusting that Sam and Jay brought over one of Pete's former scouts and made her recount watching a trusted adult die the way Pete did. All because Pete wasn't willing to suck it up and help Sam&Jay the way he told Flower to. No more people Pete used to know. He can visit Laura and Petey himself off screen.

Trevor: So it seems like everyone from Trevor's life is still alive. Okay He died young, and has only been dead for 20 years. We have met Arty and learned about their Friend group: except for Pinkus they all sucked. I want to to hold off on meeting Pinkus again though, because I largely suspect Trevor will be sucked off after that and I am not ready to lose him. In season 1 Trevor mentioned a Nicki Fisher, a friend with benefits he had then , who he kinda wanted to be in an actual exclusive relationship with (Like he wanted with Hetty). But, later in that same episode, we learned she had a baby with another guy she had been hooking up with at the same time, so he likely would not have gotten what he wanted with her. No need for us to meet Nicki. I have seen some people suggest that Jeremy could come back and work on the lightening at Woodstone/Jays restaurant. One person even suggested he could meet Bela. I have no objections to either of those. One final thing I was thinking is that maybe one of Trevor's parents got engaged again, and want to have their wedding at the B&B. Then we could explore Trevor going through his feelings on one of his parents finding love again, and trying to come to terms with it to support them at their wedding... Maybe we could even have Hetty offer to attend with him as friends. If it is Trevor's mom I want both her boys to walk her down the isle.

Crash, Nigel, Nancy, Stephanie: If a secondary ghost has someone from their past show up it will almost certainly end in them being sucked off. Crash is more a seasonal gag than a character, and while the show can certainly get by without him, it would be really cheep to tease a character getting sucked off again and for it to just be Crash. Especially after pulling the same stint with Ralph in the season 2 finale-season three. With Nigel I have admitted in other posts that he is my least favorite character. He is a cheater, a gas-lighter, and an asshole. But I also know he and Issac are endgame. This split between them is temporary: they need to grow as people, and will eventually (season 5 hopefully) get back together and (again hopefully) have a healthier, more equal, and caring relationship the next time around. That's what is being set up. So give Nigel the improvement he needs and do not touch him otherwise. For Nancy 1.) I would hate to lose her. She is the best secondary ghost on the show. 2.) before we get into people from her past we need to learn more about her relationships with the other basement ghosts.

Stephanie is different though. She was just a teenager when she died. The fact that she needs to sleep most of the year means she can rarely take part in house shenanigans. All the other ghosts are way older than her, and largely ignore her when she is awake. While most of the other ghosts are revealed to have had really depressing lives as livings and it could be argued ghost-hood is their second chance; Stephanie potentially had a fun life and has a lonely and really depressing afterlife. If her boyfriend from when she was alive, or maybe somehow her mom, came back and took her with them to the afterlife... well that sounds like one of the more heartwarming stories of the show

[allastoredeer]

Hola deer I was wondering what are your thoughts of who might have Al on a leash…I know many people are speculating it to be Lilith, but I feel like There is no way Al had a whole breakdown song just for being Lilith lackeys. True it might be that he just wants his power back, but the idea of Lilith requesting Al to keep an eye on the hotel it’s not that bad per se. The way he reacted when Husk mentioned his leash, that was the face of a man who is terrified to lose control and making a deal with Charlie was his last remedy.

The man is desperate and I can’t stop thinking about the fact the he was already so powerful when he come to hell, And unless he met someone who had a lot of knowledge on the place before dying, I doubt he would have got the title of overlord that quickly. Someone must have helped him right?! Same with Lilith. As the story goes she became so very powerful when she feel in hell, but how? Do u just know what your power are and how to use them when u die? Lilith was the first of her kind to get down there, there was no one she could have taken inspiration from. And what about Al’s shadow? I mean what shadows have in correlation with a deer man with a microphone? To me it would make much more sense if when Al was alive, he got in contact with someone very powerful from hell and made the naive mistake to trust it. He sold his soul and he got shadows to help him through his murders, then Upon dying, he made a second mistake and momentarily forgot about his leash, going around and killing Overlords for his own entertainment, until he was called back to fulfill his end of the bargain.

My speculation is that root must have his soul and maybe even Lilith’s soul, or at least some kinda of deal with her, that got her to be the queen she is remembered as. Heaven is the only place where root eyes are not visible, and it might explain why Lilith disappeared for 7 years in the angel land , same as Al. Maybe Lilith helped Al in exchange of him taking care of his daughter for her or something, and while they were together Lilith might have accidentally influenced Al’s opinion on the king of hell as well, causing the man to hate him at first sight lol

Just imagining Lilith ranting about his ex husband to Alastor, like Charlie did about Vaggie, when they were going to cannibalism town it’s so funny to me.

I like the idea that She's just Luci's long-suffering wine mom friend who is amicably divorced from him and ends up gaining a second man child once Luci and Al get together. I think her being the villain it’s just too cliche and I feel like it would be so much better if she actually start bickering with Lucy, angry talking like two feral cats lol

But let me know what you think😆

I get why a lot of people are speculating that Lilith has Alastor on a leash, and I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if she does, but I really think it's Roo.

Or, at least, I want it to be her so badly.

I agree that I don't think Alastor would have a mental breakdown over being Lilith's lackey. Honestly, I don't agree with whole idea/concept that Lilith is even the bad guy. Like, I won't be mad if she is, because I love corrupt or morally grey female characters, but I think there is so much more going on them meets the eye.

A lot of people saw that 5 second glimpse of her onscreen during the season finale and kind of just assumed she ditched Hell and her family to live it up in Heaven, but I just...that makes absolutely no sense to me, especially given how she's been depicted in the background during the show. Given what little we know about Lilith, I just cannot see her leaving Lucifer, Charlie, and her entire domain to go fuck around in Heaven, whom I imagine she wouldn't have a very good relationship with, anyway.

And yes! I also massively agree about Alastor getting his power from some kind of source. It was specifically stated that he was toppling Overlords and gaining power faster than anyone ever has before, and from what we can deduce from the show, Alastor has the power to actually kill sinners - which isn't supposed to be possible. The only way sinners are supposed to die is with angelic weaponry.

Not only that, it also hasn't been hinted or implied that anyone else has been able to rip apart souls like he does. As far as we've seen from the other Overlords, the most you can do is own someone's soul.

So we have Alastor over here rising to the top of the food chain almost over night, gaining power at a rapid pace, with abilities that no one else seems to have. Yeah, I 100% believe he made a deal with someone when he first came into Hell, and I think that person was Roo.

I mean, what motive would Lilith have for making a deal with this random sinner who just entered Hell? Out of the hundreds (if not thousands) of sinners who have to be arriving in Hell by the day? What would she have to gain by doing that? What could Alastor possibly offer her that she, the Queen of Hell, can't do herself?

But Roo? She's the Root of all Evil. She doesn't need a reason. She can be evil for the sake of being evil. I can see her picking a random, wide-eyed, recently deceased sinner and giving them the deal of a lifetime - one that she can cash in on later.

And even if it wasn't random, I can see her looking for a lackey to give power to, to then use as a pawn farther down the road. I can see her being cunning and careful with who she picks, and I 100% believe she would see Alastor's insecure ass and know that guy would do anything to get power (the faster the better), especially if he only just died and didn't yet understand the full scale and structure of Hell, and how serious those kinds of deals are.

(And I can also see Alastor making a deal with Roo when he was alive and then suffering the consequences of it when he died. That's be super cool.)

As for why, well, Roo obviously doesn't have much sway in Hell, despite being the Root of all Evil, because we don't see or hear about her at all throughout the show. If she had power over any of the 7 Rings, we would've seen it or heard about it. In fact, she's only been alluded to once, and that was in the first episode, during the opening sequence of Charlie explaining Hell's origin story.

Still, Roo has to interact with Hell in some way, considering she's the personification of evil and this is THE place for wickedness and corruption. I just don't think she has power or dominion there. At least, not yet ;)

I think she's been cooking up a scheme for a while and what we're seeing in season 1 is her slowly putting the game pieces into place. I think she has Alastor on a leash (that she's had him on a leash for a while but she's only just now using it), and I think she's also the reason Lilith is in Heaven.

I mean, when you think about it, of course she would want Lilith out of the picture if she's trying to make a power grab in Hell. Lilith was the one running the place. She thrived in Hell. She empowered it. So getting her out of the picture makes perfect sense, and who would even think to look for Lilith in Heaven? The very last place you'd expect her to be?

I don't know, the whole idea that Lilith is just a big bad evil women who doesn't care about her family and hates Hell and wants nothing to do with either of them just...it doesn't sit right. It doesn't make sense.

I do think that Lilith and Alastor have met each other in some way, though. The both of them disappearing for 7 years, at the same time, is too much of a coincidence (I want her and Alastor to be besties :3) and I just KNOW that there is more to Lucifer and Lilith's divorce than people give it credit for. I want those juicy details. I want a full blown argument between them so we can get that tea.

But if Lilith does end up being one of our antagonists in season 2, I won't be upset, cuz like I said, give me those morally corrupt women. They'll be loved and appreciated here.

Still, my gut says its Roo. And even if Roo isn't directly holding Alastor's leash, I think she's involved in some way and that she's going to be coming into play eventually. She seems like the type who would manipulate things from the shadows, using people as pawns, and playing a game that no one else even realizes they're playing. I want her to be a psychotic little mastermind trash lady.

I neeeeeeed it.

[ilikekidsshows]

Retooled Marinette makes me feel ashamed that I ever believed in her to grow out of her flaws and I hate that. Doesn't the show say that people refusing to change for the better when given the chance makes them bad people and deserving of the worst? Not that I agree with that line of thinking, but when Chloé got written off in s3 despite the slow but noticeable progress she made then the same should apply to Marinette now in season 5, right?

She was given a second chance by Cat Noir at the end of season 4 and Marinette refused to take it for more than self-validation. She straight up left when she wasn't rewarded for season 4 with Cat sticking his tongue down her throat for real, but sure, tell me about her having "learned and feeling sorry". She STILL didn't ask for his feelings and needs even ONCE in season 5. Or at least, I can't remember anything. Just Marinette still only doing with Cat whatever SHE wants and then getting pissed when she was told no. Which Adrien then was blamed for cause Marinette can't life without being pampered.

By the show's own logic, season 5 should have been the one having doomed Marinette as irredeemable in her "partnership" with Cat Noir because her inaction and unwillingness to face her real flaws in Ladynoir and work on it because it makes her uncomfortable to hear even a single not-validating word lead to Cat Noir not making it to the end battle, and instead he resigned to his lonely doom locked up in a cell with nightmares in a different country after having lost his private life, because he was forbidden to ask for even the tiniest thing in this "partnership".

Sure, she didn't actively sacrifice him, but she did less than nothing to ever help him or allow him to think that he has worth beyond what use and relief she gets outta him. She demanded that he can't make decisions for his own sake cause that stresses (tm) her and he must wait for however long until she finally may be able to spare some time to remember him in any of this. If he asks for anything, he's abusive scum that's horrifically suffocating her and must learn to know his place at her feet and servitude or else she'll probably start crying again that she's so pure-hearted and faultless in Cat's irrational neediness to be viewed as human being with worth. She'll just wobble with her lips and that's it. She never did more anyway. No wonder Catrien was left with nothing and didn't make it. Being stuck with Ladynette basically means you've got nothin on your side, but still have to prey and be grateful that shes even giving you "that much"

Everything can only ever happen on HER terms and whenever SHE deems it necessary to happen. And yet she never EVER did a single thing to prevent the finale situation from happening. 5 full seasons and Cat Noir still had NOTHING but she sure is still screaming for more.

It was more important to her that SHE gets to do and have whatever she needs than making sure Cat has ANYTHING or any kind of way to ask for help when he needs it. That's supposed to be her pure love? No thought ever spared for him besides what SHE wants from him? Heaven have mercy on Adrien...

Hawkmoth is gone now, the mission is over. Nothing will undo the fact that Marinette wholeheartedly risked Cat Noir's well-being and safety to a lonely doom with a smile on her face because she apparently needed to be pampered and been given everything first before she could ever even start humoring the idea of giving a damn about Cat as a person who doesn't deserve a helpless and lonely doom.

How unfortunate that Marinette in Canon doesn't agree with me on that. She DOES apparently think Cat deserves to meet his end all alone and without anything to help himself as long as he mets his end outside her view so she can make further excuses for herself and why she's the bigger victim actually. That's all she ever cared about, what's supposed to change now?

I once thought Marinette was supposed to CARE for Cat Noir and not just for what consequences she'll face for his horrible treatment and end. I have never seen a protagonist be this rewarded and excused for being self-centered and willfully ignorant to outright toxic degrees. That girl is almost PROUD of her negligence and toxicity and only cares about not being viewed as bad for it. Cause she had her chance in season 5 and quickly proved that her understanding of making up for her flaws is "I'll allow you to dedicate yourself to my care and comfort even more. Your welcome 😊". Is that supposed to be effort? A caring display of partnership? Shes literally just letting herself get pampered but gives nothing of substance back.

Good for Adrien for leaving in Kwamis Choice. I hope he'll dump Ladynette's ass again in both identities in season 6 cause no way is that girl not gonna horribly neglect Adrien now in and outside the mask again. Season 4 Ladynoir is just gonna repeat itself now cause Marinette learn SHIT and she'll be too busy (tm) again with everything else to be there for her boyfriend who just became an orphan.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get another original Glaciator-like situation, with Adrien waiting for hours for Marinette in his garden with the picnic he prepared for their date, but Marinette forgot about it cause she's busy as Ladybug with her army of unnecessary heros no one fucking needs.

She'll of course only make excuses and not actually try and improve my. The orphan will just need to learn and not "mistreat" his girlfriend by being "needy" and "unreasonably controlling" by wanting her to there for him.

I have no hope that Marinette is not gonna neglect the hell outta Adrien now, I honestly fell so stupid and betrayed now after almost a decade of emotional investment that I once had so much hope in her character and the show killed all of it. I hope at least Lila gets her fun outta this cause Marinette is the rotten link in the love square, not Adrien. The love square always goes to shit the second Adrien needs something and Marinette never learns ANYTHING besides crying harder to still get her way.

I shouldn't want for Lila to wreck shit, but ngl I honestly do. Let her be the one to tell Adrien of the secrets, ironically I could actually TRUST in that to be honest and not Marinette-biased.

---

I’ve grieved over the loss of a character I enjoyed. Because that’s what it is: a loss. I recently went back and watched some season one episodes and those are still good. Marinette is a fun, empowering protagonist you can root for and Adrien is allowed to be intelligent and helpful. It feels like the writers actually had faith in Marinette as a character, that they didn’t need to make everyone else look like stooges for her to look good. Adrien was allowed to have feelings and thoughts separate from what Marinette wants, but I do remember the fandom hating him for this, so I bet those people consider the remote control RealDoll that's been abused into submission an improvement.

I also went through a phase of thinking: “was I wrong to think this show that showed its protagonist’s failures to communicate as a bad thing was going to have her grown out of it?” but then I realized that, actually, no other kids’ superhero show with this setup would NOT develop its protagonist into a more understanding and considerate version of themselves. They would know better than to have the hero’s final confrontation with their main (only) villain be caused by them actively ignoring said villain’s schemes and getting jumped. This has been Superhero Writing 101 since Spider-Man. The crew behind Miraculous are just either staggeringly bad at understanding basic storytelling, or they think they’re making a show for syndication, which commonly aren’t allowed to have shifts in status quo in order to allow the showing of episodes in any order. They have said that the show is fully serialized now, so you know which one I think it is.

It really makes me wonder. Astruc insists he has enough story ideas that he’s only used 5% of them, and, like, the show is so repetitive it better be only 5% of any epic storyline. Although, I have no faith in Astruc’s creativity or ability to come up with stories or characters that aren’t copied from better writers, so undoubtedly the 95% percent to go is just more of the same. But, Marinette already won her RealDoll prize and committed felonies to humiliate her school nemeses, so what is there left for her to forsake her morals for in the future 7 seasons of 12 total? Is someone else gonna swoop in to keep Adrien away from Marinette just so that Marinette can start up with her harebrained schemes again?

I have no doubt Marinette is going to be doing weird shit to keep Adrien in the dark about the various things she’s keeping from him, having to rush over to a date she forgot all about because she was too busy with herself again, or stalking Adrien any time he hangs out with people other than her. And through all of this the writers will expect us to side with Marinette and root for her because she has “good intentions”, she’s stressed out or she’s insecure about Adrien’s love for her. I have no faith in Marinette’s ability to be a good girlfriend because of the writers’ inability to write her as someone I’d trust around someone she has feelings for.

As for rooting for the villain, a lot of people are pointing out how Lila is the most likely person to tell Adrien the truth at this point, because doing so is “bad” because it will make Marinette look bad. When the “bad” thing to do is to respect Adrien’s right to know about his dad being a villain and he himself being a remote control robot anyone can easily control or destroy, yeah, I’m gonna be rooting for the bad guy. Never mind with how the “perfect” world Marinette is enjoying was created by her conceding victory to the previous main villain, you bet I view it as something that should be undone.

[wooawi]

Andre disowning Chloe is such a disgusting cop-out, oh my God. And not even for the writers, no, I’ve talked enough about how much the writing of season 5 is really badly thought out. It’s a disgusting cop-out for Andre.

We’ve seen that he apparently had dreams to be a film director and to make the world a better place, but had to give it up to “fit in” with his family. He became the mayor literally just to impress Audrey and hates his current life because of her and his “selfish, heartless daughter”. So now he wants out. And he gets out by... giving it all up.

And, yes, if there are toxic people in your life, people who make you give up your dreams to pursue them and further destroy your life by disrespecting you and treating you like shit, then drop them. But this isn’t just his wife that he could divorce, no. This is his daughter we are talking about.

Chloe, no matter how terrible she is, is still a product of his own shit parenting. If he didn’t want a heartless and selfish daughter, maybe he should have actually put effort into raising her rather than just throwing money at her every time she cried. The fact of the matter is that she’s like every other child on the planet: she didn’t ask to be brought into the world. It was his own decision to have a child, but when it got too hard, he just gets to give up??

And we’re supposed to side with him as the victim?

My brother in Christ, it is your fault your daughter’s a fucking asshole. It is your mess to fix and your problem to deal with. You can’t just say “well, I tried” and drop her like that. What happened to parental responsibility? To taking care of your goddamn kids and helping them through their childhood? Andre didn’t try for a second to help his daughter become a better person and just put his own shortcomings on her “nature”.

And what’s worse, is that he gets “awarded” custody of Zoe. He gets rewarded for being a shit parent by getting another kid to fuck up with. I feel terrible for Zoe. She’s still a kid and deserves at least one loving parent, not some idiot who failed at both jobs he was given throughout his adulthood: being a mayor and a father. It isn’t fair to Chloe, and it especially is not fair to Zoe.

Why are they being punished because Andre Bourgeois can’t take responsibility for a goddamn thing in his life?

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Do you think Gabriel and Tomoe trying to force their kids together when they never seemed to care about that before season 5 was too much drama? @tallwriter

Yes.

Here's a little writing tip: if you want to keep your audience emotionally invested, make the drama build and try to keep most of it tied to the plot. Miraculous is really, really bad at this. It has no idea how to build the drama up to a solid, satisfying, logical conclusion. Instead, it tries to keep people invested through extremely cheap, pointless drama that goes nowhere. I'll use season five to explain.

Season five's conflict is that Gabriel has all of the miraculous and the heroes want the miraculous back. Season five ends with that happening. But does anything in the season actually lead to that ending?

Here's a list of all (or at least most) of the multi-episode conflicts introduced and arguably resolved in season five:

Nathalie no longer blindly supporting Gabriel

Gabriel getting cataclysmed and slowly dying

Nathalie slowly dying

The reverse crush drama

Kagami having a crush on Adrien (and Marinette?)

Lila's lies and team up with Chloe

Gabriel and Tomoe wanting their kids together

Felix having the peacock miraculous

Marinette being unable to say that she loves Adrien

The senti plot

Adrinette getting together

The only thing on that list that kind of mattered to the final was Gabriel getting cataclysmed because it meant that he could die without it feeling like suicide since he was already dying. Everything else on that list could be cut and the ending would not meaningfully change because there is no story arc for season five. Stuff just happens.

This is what I mean by cheap, pointless drama. Season five doesn't care about setting up a good, powerful ending. It just cares about keeping you invested and asking "what's going to happen next?"

The is not how epic stories are told. This is how soap operas are told. The entire draw of that genre is melodrama. In other words, it's for people who enjoy drama just for the sake of drama. People who don't care if the characters are mostly shitty, awful people or if plots get dropped mid-season or resolved in wacky ways because the audience is not here to fall in love with the characters or to hear an epic story. They're here for the drama and that's about it.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with soap operas. It's a massively popular genre for a reason. I'm sure that there are even standout examples that have fantastic plots, but that's simple not a requirement for something to be a good soap opera any more than a good romance requires the main couple to be healthy. The problem with Miraculous having a soap opera structure is that - as far as I can tell - Miraculous is not trying to be a soap opera. It's trying to be a serious narrative (which is why you have the writers claiming things like Marinette and Gabriel are supposed to represent individual creative spirit versus corporate greed), but it's failing and failing hard.

A show that was succeeding at telling a good, logical plot would have had multi-episode conflicts like:

Chat Noir and Ladybug figuring out how the miraculous powers are being given to people

Chat Noir and Ladybug trying to figure out if Tomoe knew that her rings got hacked/assuming the Tsurugi tech is behind everything and somehow infuriating the company, likely with Kagami's help

Chat Noir and Ladybug learning the truth of the butterfly and peacock and dealing with that/going to the mansion with purpose

Felix, Chat Noir, and Ladybug playing a season long game of cat and mouse

You know, stuff that would actually lead to the ending of the season instead of Felix randomly telling Ladybug what she needs to know right before the final without her actually doing anything to make that happen. (But don't forget that she's smart and clever guys. I promise you that she's smart and clever! The writers totally know how to write a smart and clever character!)

Another thing you may have noticed is that most of those suggested plot points build on each other. This is how good stories work. You should be constantly resolving subplots and, in the process of the resolution, you introduce new subplots. For example, they figure out that the rings are how the akumas are getting their powers, which leads to the investigation of Tsurugi tech. Two separate subplots that naturally link together to allow for a logical story flow while keeping things interesting.

This was a big problem with season four, which introduced the Ladynoir conflict that was just kind of there, looming over the story, but not doing anything for 20-something episodes. For all of season five's flaws, at the very least the writers kept things interesting. They just didn't keep it interesting in particularly talented way. It's all bullshit melodrama and, while I truly have nothing against soap operas, I'm not a fan of the genre.

All of the above is why I don't have any faith in the next season of miraculous. They writers clearly cannot handle conflicts that last longer than an episode because literally nothing they introduced set up the final. It actually weakened the final because season five spent a lot of time making Gabriel worse than he's ever been, which is not how you setup a dramatic, last-minute change of heart.

To end on a positive note, the one thing that I will give the writers some credit for is the reverse crush BS. Rumor has it that this season was originally supposed to have The Reveal and, if that had happened right after all of the crush stuff, then it would have been more satisfying than a reveal without the reverse crush.

While Adrien has always been a Marinette fan and him eventually developing a crush feels logical, Ladybug has been really anti Ladynoir for a while now, so having her backtrack that stance pre-reveal would have strengthened the reveal and the relationship that follows. It still will even though Ladybug's Chat Noir crush is now nothing more than a brief rebound that was quickly forgotten. That doesn't change the fact that it happened which means that we now know that she's okay with her and Chat Noir being in a romantic relationship no matter his identity when it previously came across like she was completely opposed to the idea until she learned that it was Adrien under the mask, which was something I always viewed as a terrible writing choice, so I'm glad they backtracked it instead of trying to solve it post-reveal.

[flightfoot]

Ur a pretty fair voice in my opinion when it comes to the whole mess in miraculous. Would you mind telling me what your favorite things are about Marinettes appreciation of Chat Noir in Canon? Not fanon, CANON.

I'm still grieving LadyNoir and recently I'm feelin very down in life in general and now I don't have my comfort show and ship anymore the way I used to love them for.

The way Marinette treats Chat Noir in and outta her transformation never stops hurting my poor broken LadyNoir heart n as much as I wished I could love the potential of her love for him as I once did, it just feels so paper thin and shallow to me now after everythin this show did.

The show is clearly trying to have her feelings for him be smth now, but for me it never seems to go beyond her infamous vague heart eyes the show likes to hav her throw around for damage control & surface level appreciation of his presence when she has to. But if you'd tell me that she still has no real feelings for him, I would believe u, cause he as a person doesn't truly matter at any given moment her words have to MEAN something more than a vague "<3" she's never asked to back up with anything worthwhile (srry, I know you've heard that complaint a million times before. It's at least comforting to know that others feel the same)

Wasn even her taking any interest in Chat for his person in the first quarter of season 5 only caused by Marinette wantin to proof Alya wrong and that her love for him instead of Adrien is real and valid? That's so disheartening...

Going through the tags isnt helping either, cuz most i find it is either much more fanon than Canon, or it's in line with Chat prrty much being her servant now instead of her finally giving care back

Idk, I hope I'm not bein too much of a downer. So imma get back to my question now. Maybe u can help me see Canon in better light again.

Could you tell me what you like most bout Marinettes and Ladybug's connection with Chat Noir? Things she does for him, what she values in him and so on and so forth?

I like the times we see her getting upset when Chat's hurt, or when she comforts him when he's clearly not feeling good. I adored how angry and upset she got in Timebreaker when Chat was "killed" in front of her for the first time, how she suddenly became more vicious. She doesn't want to lose him.

Or like, for times when she's comforted Chat, I adore how calmly and patiently she spoke to Chat in Reverser, after his courage was taken away, how she gently coaxed him where he needed to go. I took great solace in that, the first time I rewatched that episode, since I'd been exposed to a lot of Saltinette at the time, and I needed the reminder that Marinette does, in fact, care about people, even when it's inconvenient.

While I wish that Marinette had really thought through Chat's potential reaction to someone new showing up with her Miraculous without warning, I DID love that Marinette had this long list of protips. I especially liked this one:

Marinette: (v.o) Protip 33: When Cat Noir tells a joke, try to laugh at it even if it isn't funny. It makes him happy.

Even in episodes where I have a problem with the way Marinette conceives of Chat Noir, I generally still like elements of it. Like even in Ephemeral, while I think it was very, very wrong for her to try to trick Chat the way she did, she WAS doing it because she didn't want to risk Su-Han taking Chat's Miraculous from him. Or in Kuro Neko, when she didn't want to give the miraculous back to Plagg to give to Chat Noir, because she was afraid they'd end up back in this same situation, and she didn't want to keep hurting him.

At her core, Marinette cares about Chat's feelings and wants him to feel good, to be happy. The issue comes from her not seeing things from his perspective, from being terrible at reading him. Marinette has a lot of compassion towards Chat Noir, she just doesn't understand him.