#but how do you help salem? that depends on her and what she wants and what she’ll do with the chance given

[bestworstcase]

So, I recently had a discussion with a friend regarding your angle that Salem respects humans/Faunus, convinced Summer to get onboard with her plan and has the explicit goal of taking out the gods to save Remnant.

Conceptually I don't strictly mind any of this, its certainly not impossible for reasons you've outlined and it'd be suitably subversive of CRWBY to take the woman scorned/heretics villain and have her not be about that but some way bigger issue.

However, I run into a bit of a hurdle with embracing the concepts because it always hits what I deem to be some narrative and structural hurdles. Not one's that "Can't" be overcome, but that I am unsure I have seen be covered in outlines and theories.

My main concerns tie into a few angles that I'll try to break up for clarity:

Focus A big concern for me with the current theory is that it feels like it shifts the focus of the story away from the main characters.

You know how people treated Ironwood or Adam, or Ozpin & Qrow like they were the main characters and RWBY were or should be just supporting characters in their narrative?

While I don't think this is intentional on your part, it does beg the question of how this would be avoided.

Shaggy Dog Story Tied into the above is the potential for it to make the main characters journey feel a bit like a Shaggy Dog story. IE, a story where a lot of bad stuff happens for no reasn and they'd be better off having stayed home.

Again, I don't think this is intentional.

But, if Salem has a plan to take down the gods, if this plan is good and workable and would succeed... Haven't they made everything worse by fighting her and dragging it out?

Agency & of not and Salem is happy about them rallying the world behind them because then she can do this alone, we go back to the Focus issue.

Salem seems to become the main character and the story feels less about RWBY and more about them being caught up in Salem's narrative.

Consistency Meanwhile from Salem's angle, it does beg some questions about her thought processes. I can accept the idea she is varying shades of paranoid ad not used to being trusted...

But at the same time she has an inner circle she trusts a fair bit and is willing to reach out and align with large organizations like the White Fang, or try to cut deals with Atlas. Plus she might legit have Summer on her side.

So the idea I've seen proposed that she feels compelled to go to war, that she cannot envision another way. When most of the world doesn't know or care about the gods, when she has humans & Faunus on her side already who could speak for her.

Simply put it feels inconsistent to say that Salem is pathologically incapable of reaching out to others. She certainly struggles with communicating, but she can do so and can get people on her side.

Satisfaction This one is a bit more vague, but the general point is I am unsure what a satisfying conclusion with the seemingly proposed ideas looks like.

If Salem is right, then RWBY and co are to one degree or another supporting characters, whose actions had little impact. Or their narrative significance is in basically clarifying that Salem is correct and should be worked with. Or perhaps serving as her nominal therapists/communication advisors.

I swear I am not trying to be reductive, I am just basing this on conversations I've had and posts I've seen.

But yeah, basically I am wondering how you envision things going down that ensures RWBY remains the focal characters and that their journey and decisions have real meaning. While keeping the nuanced Salem and ensuring she doesn't come across as inconsistent. I am sure it can be done, and have tinkered with some myself, but most of them don't seem to in the direction I've seen suggested by others.

rubs hands. all good questions

#1: focus

i will say i do think the story of rwby is foundationally about ozlem—in the sense that the plot of the story revolves around this ancient and deeply personal conflict between them that is tearing the world apart and the narrative goal is their reconciliation, because you can’t have true peace until These Two immortal fucks stop fighting—and that team rwby’s the main characters because they’re the ones whom the narrative has, in essence, asked to put the broken pieces of this fairytale back together the right way.

as ruby herself says, remnant isn’t like a fairytale but that’s why they’re here, to make it better. on a character level that’s a statement about how ruby sees the world, her youthful optimism mingled with sadness, but on the thematic level it’s a very. literal description of what the story’s about. 

points at oz. look at where he started, look at where he is now. this man is under a curse designed to make it impossible for him to change and at the top of the show he has not fundamentally changed in any sense except gradual decay for, literally thousands of years. right. and then he admits ruby into his monster hunting school two years early because she has special magic eyes and he’s in need of a new chosen one since her mother disappeared, and then salem sends cinder to maul him, and—oops!—his “simple soul” who was never supposed to become anything more than another symbolic guardian is the one actually. like. making all the decisions.

once he gets oscar to mistral his “authority” over the gang lasts for exactly as long as ruby trusts him, which is [checks notes] One Month and Two Weeks. and then she explodes his whole situation by asking jinn what he’s hiding, which incites his long period of self-reflection while oscar becomes more oscar followed by the atonement arc in v8 and now he’s in vacuo fighting against this curse tooth and nail. 

now ruby did not Set Out to wrench ozma free of his divinely-enforced rut, she just did the protagonist thing of seeing a problem (bad guys attacked her school, and they’re planning to attack the other schools too!) and trying to fix it (she won’t let anyone else die!). but directly because of her actions, oz undergoes this seismic character development precipitating his part in the Ozlem Reconciliation.

and ruby is also indirectly the cause of the (subtler but just as necessary) character development salem has undergone since her proper introduction in v4 because all of that is constructed on the foundation of cinder’s near-death atop beacon tower.

so v1-8 are—in this very high level, bird’s eye view of the narrative—about ruby being more or less the butterfly who flaps her wings, by just Being There and responding to the events unfolding around her as best she can, having these cascading impacts on the world and on ozlem. thats step one. 

step two is the ever after, where all of team rwby but ruby in particular start having to confront. The Ideology. of ozma’s mandate which they’ve not yet thought about because they’re focused on the more immediately urgent problems of Not Dying and Not Letting Innocent People Die. so they need to get a little time to stop and breathe and feel the weight of “atlas is gone and salem has two of the four relics and what are we going to do” before they meet the demiurge who tells them, very gently, that the god of light is wrong and that they can’t solve this conflict with more conflict. 

and then they go right to vacuo, which is on the brink of civil war. this is step three. they need to figure out how to resolve the situation in vacuo, and this is why i do not think salem will arrive in vacuo until the end of v10 if at all; vacuo is sort of a proving ground for team rwby. 

can they take what they learned in the ever after and put it into practice in vacuo? can they make that mental leap from ozpin’s idea of unity (conflict avoidance, fear of disagreement, keeping secrets and hiding problems to maintain the appearance of peace while propping the whole system up with warriors trained to kill monsters and not ask questions) to true balance (which is messy and complicated and requires talking instead of fighting, negotiation and compromise instead of placation or condemnation, honesty and trust instead of manipulation and secrecy)? 

their coalition wants to protect vacuo from salem. the crown also wants to protect vacuo from salem. the two sides of this nascent civil war want the same thing, but have very different ideas about how to achieve it. v10 is about team rwby solving this, finding common cause with the crown, in preparation for step four.

which is finding common cause with salem. they want to save remnant from destruction. she also wants to save remnant from destruction, but has very different ideas about how to do it. The Rest Of The Show is about bridging that divide. she isn’t the main character so much as the final goal. 

#2: shaggy dog story

following from that: i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, salem can’t get the Good Ending by herself either. i think whatever plan she has for dealing with the gods is probably something that will work but, gestures at the apocalyptic destruction she’s leaving strewn in her wake, she does not care how much blood she has to spill to get there, and the best case scenario for her if she continues on this path is that the gods are gone forever but the entire world reviles her and she’ll find no quarter anywhere. 

right-but-evil vs wrong-but-good. 

now in the abstract, if the relics had been just sitting on an unguarded plinth somewhere and team rwby had taken it upon themselves to keep them away from her… then sure, they’d have been better off staying home to let her scoop the damn things up and stab light in the heart, figuratively speaking. but ozpin had the relics locked down inside fortresses guarded by children, three in the middle of major urban population centers. salem. can’t get to them by herself without killing a whole lot of people.

so if nothing else, if literally nothing else, team rwby saved thousands of people who would have died in mantle/atlas and i am pretty sure they’re going to save thousands of people who are now trapped under mountain glenn, to bring that full circle. EVEN IF making peace with salem were to look like the heroes just adopting her plan with no notes and handing over the last relic, they’d still be the sole reason hundreds of thousands of people survived to see the world get saved. 

but i can also guarantee that’s… not what making peace with salem will look like. the stakes are very high for everyone and there is a lot that needs to be addressed. what happens to the grimm? to the huntsmen academies? how does her vision of a new world conflict with the future they want? (how do they deal with the way fear of collective punishment shapes her plans, because i do think her plan for dealing with the gods depends on the whole world being credibly united against her as a failsafe against round two of “we killed the world to punish you”?) what compromises do they demand from her? how do they challenge her? etc.

this is a type of narrative arc rwby has already proven to be pretty good at handling—look at ‘cordially invited,’ look at the whole amity-or-mantle split underpinning the plot of v8. there are even more moving pieces in negotiating with salem than in either of those combined, and team rwby—by virtue of being the main characters and by virtue of being the ones who brought the vacuo coalition and the crown together—will be the ones shepherding all of this. 

#3 agency

salem is pleased about the broadcast for, i believe, two reasons:

in the short term, it hands her an opportunity to force the sword out of the vault without risking cinder’s life on a silver platter, because if she takes a rain check on showing up to be the Great Evil they’ll eventually have to mount a counteroffensive to hold that coalition together, and

in the longer term, once she has all four relics, if the entire world fucking hates her then the gods are less likely to kill them all to punish her if she fails. 

this is also why she razes vale to the ground (and the first is another reason i anticipate a lot of survivors trapped in mountain glenn—hostages). 

i don’t see that either of these reasons reduce the agency of the main characters or make salem the main character, any more than e.g. cinder’s pleasure when the black queen virus hops from ozpin’s desk to ironwood’s scroll makes her the main character of the beacon arc. villains have motivations and agency as characters too and one of the basic building blocks of narrative is action-reaction pushing and pulling between hero and villain. 

ruby takes action. salem reacts to turn it to her advantage, because that’s how she operates. the vacuo coalition will react to her destruction of vale (and probable hostage-taking) with either a counteroffensive or an attempt to save people without handing over the sword, or both, or take the riskier but higher reward option of talking to her, which she doesn’t expect (and may react quite badly to, because of the second reason). 

the reason i discuss salem’s motivations and plans so disproportionately in comparison to the heroes is that she’s more opaque and teasing out what she wants and why she does things is a lot more challenging than it is for the main characters; they are, always, trying to protect everyone they can from those who do harmful destructive things. there is an abundance of other very interesting things to talk about with regard to the mains, but within this broad overarching narrative their motivation is Extremely Simple. they don’t want bad things to happen to people. 

so when it comes to speculation, if you can puzzle out “what will salem do?” it tends to be self-evident what the good guys will do in response. because the response is always “stop salem” and will continue to be that until it turns into “help salem,” which is really just a different means to the same end of protecting people from salem but one that requires her to cooperate, and she isn’t going to cooperate if they don’t surprise her.

it’s similar to “what is ozpin hiding from us?” in that there’s another key change coming—so far salem has taken the initiative in every arc. she attacks beacon, she attacks haven, she attacks atlas, she razed vale. villainous action, heroic reaction. they need to, in essence, react and then act in a way that she doesn’t anticipate. and then she reacts. 

but narratively, the way this plays out—the focus and momentum of the story is with the main characters. it’s going to cut away to salem only as much as is needed to set up her reaction when the main characters take the initiative. the story is how the main characters get to the point where they can do that. 

#4 character consistency 

the key point here is that all of salem’s relationships within her inner circle (and more broadly the factions she aligns herself with) are strictly transactional; she is able to trust and feel secure in these relationships only as long as they don’t care about her and she doesn’t care about them. but the instantshe becomes consciously aware of caring about cinder in 6.4 she goes kind of nuts. 

dropping everything to rush to atlas after saying she was going to leave cinder to toil in isolation. then being mean to her. then doubling down on being mean. then folding like wet cardboard when cinder called her bluff, landing on “good for you for defying me when i was cruel,” and immediately razing vale rather than send cinder after the summer maiden. 

this is what salem caring looks like; going to extremely destructive lengths to protect someone whom she is, in almost the same breath, trying to shove away. remember all the ruby-salem parallels that began to really erupt in v9? “if you stay with me, you’re going to end up dead, too” is one of them. salem:

lost her mother in childbirth. her father blamed her and locked her up with a wet nurse from infancy because he wanted nothing to do with her except insofar as he could treat her like a defective imitation of her mother once she grew older

grew up imprisoned in a tower, watching her father execute not just anyone who tried to help her but anyone who spoke to her; being caught offering her kindness was a crime punishable by death. 

fell in love with a man who then promptly grew sick and died, and got brutally punished by the gods for asking him to be restored to life.

told people her story and gathered a following of a few hundred, maybe a few thousand people who agreed to stand with her against the gods, and the gods murdered not only these people but also everyone in the world, to punish her defiance.

refused, millions of years later, to help ozma enact his mandate from those gods; he left her and they attacked each other and fought so brutally that their children (and entire household) died in the crossfire and their whole kingdom collapsed overnight. 

has spent decades watching ozpin treat children as expendable cannon fodder, bloody grist in the mill of an imaginary war to get rid of her. 

salem blames herself for at least the latter two (#5 is made clear by the framing in 6.4 and underscored by paralleling with jaune in 9.7; #4 is implied by salem glossing over her rebellion out of fear that ozma would reject her, a fear she could only feel if she felt guilt), and i will not be remotely surprised if it turns out she’s blaming herself for the first three as well. certainly ozpin implies in his commentary on ‘the girl in the tower’ that the blood her father spilled is on her hands because she asked for help.

the point is, i don’t think it’s possible to understand salem as a character without considering what it would do to a person for this to be the defining narrative of her life, literally from birth, that she is the reason others die. she killed her mother; it’s her fault that her father murdered anyone who showed her kindness; she was selfish and arrogant to plead for her lover’s life; her turning other people against the gods who enforce this rule is cause for genocide; her children are dead because she is a monster. if you stay with me you’re going to end up dead too.

ozma was her last and only hope—the one who saved her from the tower, who knew her before, who chose to come back for her—that anyone might ever see something in her worth helping, worth loving, worth protecting. his betrayal shattered her trust, but that isn’t why salem is the way she is. 

she always felt unlovable. she always felt monstrous. the foundation of her identity is guilt. she is the scapegoat. she is the reason everyone else must die. and it’s her fate to be the one left standing with all that blood smeared on her hands, because she is always, always the justification for the killing. all this endless death! salem calmed down when yang spat that in her face instead of getting angry because it rang true to her.

it isn’t that she’s incapable of trusting or making emotional connections or seeking common cause with others—although her preferred method for doing so begins with inflicting violence on herself or inviting others to inflict violence on her so there is severe dysfunction there—but rather she feels a deep conviction that doing so is materially harmful, that she endangers people by asking for help, and therefore that no one who understood her could ever want to help her. 

if no one sees her clearly, if she performs her role as the fairytale witch and allows people to cast whatever distorted reflections of themselves onto her that they like, she can maintain the emotional detachment that makes her feel safe. as long as she is alone, no matter how painful it is, she feels safe.

but once she notices herself caring about cinder… she desperately wants to keep cinder safe and that motivates her cruelty, because if she cares about cinder then cinder will, eventually, be killed to punish salem. and if cinder knew that she would run, and she should run while she still can. this is woven into the foundations of how salem sees herself.

#5 satisfaction

the conceit of this reading is that there is one way to resolve the central narrative conflict, which is the war between ozma and salem. the Problem Of Salem is that she cannot be killed and never gives up, so even if they defeated her now and sealed her away in a vault somewhere or whatever, nothing would really change. the world would still be broken and endangered by this conflict. oscar would die; ozma would gradually decay again until he became another ozpin.

moreover, it’s becoming increasingly clear that they can’t defeat salem. oz wiped out hundreds of thousands if not millions of grimm in the blink of an eye—and half the fandom kept treating that like the inflection point, as if salem had exhausted all of her resources and now had nothing left to bring to vacuo—and then what happened? she turned around a few weeks later and flattened vale.

if this were a conflict ozlem could resolve on their own, they would have done so long ago and there wouldn’t be a story, or at least not this story. the reason the story is happening right now is that team rwby are the ones who can make what needs to happen, happen. 

the only thing that makes this narrative different from a bog standard fantasy war story is that, well, as ‘for every life’ put it, some heroes chose the wrong side. so instead of a straightforward narrative about good guys persevering through trials and tribulations until they triumph over the bad guys it’s a narrative about the good guys—team rwby—learning that doing the right thing is actually really difficult and complicated, because there’s no such thing as pure evil and because the things they were taught to believe aren’t always true. 

salem is evil (she kills people) but right (she refuses to surrender remnant to a genocidal tyrant) and just a person (she deserves compassion as does everyone). ozma is good (he wants to save people) but wrong (he serves the genocidal tyrant) and just a person (he deserves compassion as does everyone). 

narratively, the purpose of team rwby is to take right and good and put them back together. with ozma this means team rwby is the driving force that causes him first to be honest with himself and others, then to rebel against his role as the god of light’s servant—because his problem is that he’s wrong. with salem, team rwby first have to tear down all the obfuscating false narratives built up around her (this arc began in v6 and is ongoing) and then hold out a hand and challenge her to meet them halfway. which she will, because the cinder stuff is challenging her in the same way that “what is ozpin hiding from us?” challenged oz.

this is not anything different from say, what blake does narratively for ilia or what penny and weiss do for winter, or what oscar tries to do for ironwood, or what ruby and yang do for raven, or what ruby does in forgiving neo. it’s at a larger scale because salem is a central character—the main villain—but the same in principle. they open a door and she has to walk through it. 

this remains true even if salem is notionally the one who initiates the conversation, e.g. by revealing the existence of hostages in mountain glenn and demanding the sword, because if she does that then obviously team rwby can’t and won’t play on her terms. this remains true even if salem initiates the conversation in earnest, e.g. by putting all her cards on the table and asking for help, because the focus of the narrative then will be on team rwby grappling with the very daunting question of whether to take the risk of hearing her out and the emotional stakes of agreeing to negotiate.

again, gestures at jax and gillian. the crown wants exactly the same thing that the heroes do, but their methods are destructive and harmful and while they might be able to achieve a victory against salem if they won, it would be a very pyrrhic victory indeed. this is precisely the narrative set up regarding salem and dealing with the crown is the last set of training wheels for team rwby before they’re ready to tackle the Salem Problem. 

it may help to think of it in terms of negotiation being equivalent to the battles in a standard fantasy war story. typically you would expect the main character to face a series of increasingly difficult fights against increasingly dangerous opponents until they’re ready to bring the fight to the villain, and then they win. if they lose a battle they’ll train and become stronger and eventually face that opponent again and win this time. yeah?

well. rwby is doing that but with talking. weiss and blake have their blow up fight over weiss’s bigotry in v1 and weiss has to listen and apologize. v2-5 team rwby lose every important fight against salem’s agents except for the one that forces qrow to reveal himself and bring RNJR into the loop and the one where yang confronts raven and persuades her mother to give her the lamp. v6, ruby triumphs over cordovin and the bees defeat adam only after making a serious effort to reason with both of them, and then the leviathan is defeated because cordovin ultimately took what ruby said to her to heart. v7 is centrally about trying to talk ironwood down from the fascism ledge and get everyone to the table to negotiate. v8 is in many ways an examination of why they couldn’t get through to ironwood in the end—that intense fear of division and consequent inability to handle disagreement constructively—while setting up, through salem’s erratic treatment of cinder, the idea that salem is not beyond reason or incapable of change. v9 is literally just an extended training montage where they practice empathy and critical thinking and learn to ask questions and listen instead of making snap judgments. 

see how it builds? their journey isn’t about becoming better fighters so they can beat salem, it’s about developing the skills and perspective they need to talk to her. but that really only works narratively if salem wants something that the heroes can find common cause with—there has to be a connection, something they can listen and then say “we want that too, so work with us” about. in the same way thatif this were a story about defeating salem, she would have to have a weakness, something they could do to negate her power or make her mortal again, so that defeating her isn’t impossible. 

and again if you have trouble envisioning how this can happen without displacing team rwby as the main characters, look at how things shake out in v7 and v8 with the negotiations and disagreements the kids deal with in those volumes. because those are preludes for averting the vacuan civil war in v10 (or ending it in a truce) and that’s the prelude to dealing with salem. 

[prophet-rebellion]

Jolene's Emergency Vet Visit

Description posted from GoFundMe Campaign:

So for those of you who gave followed me (and maybe seen the update) you'll know Salem has been missing for almost 6 months.

She was my ESA, and given my declining mental health, I didn't have much choice but to get a new ESA.

Enter miss Jolene Macchiato L. Whom I adopted almost two months ago and have whole heartedly decided to keep after realizing just how well we mesh.

You may also know I've been in the hospital the last few days - staying with my roommate who was admitted. I've been coming home to feed the cats and (unsuccessfully) treat them for ear mites. My new roommate was dog sitting and he brought fleas and ear mites into our home.

During this time, Jolene went to the bathroom on my bed multiple times. I at first chalked it up to stress and was told to keep an eye on here. Less than a day of being back from the hospital and her stool is light in color, runny, and most terrifyingly, has blood in it.

This is no longer an issue of stress, but could be a major intestinal/stomach problem when mixed with her inability to wait and use her litterbox. On top of that, she was running around like she was in pain, or something was wrong prior to going.

My second job is not a sure thing yet - it has been more than two weeks since the company reached out to me - and I have been looking for more. The money I thought I won was more a scam to get me down to the car dealership (which by the way, I hated as is because of the older man behaving increasingly grossly and inappropriate towards me).

My funding for Salem has stopped at this point - I have done every physical thing I can to find and bring her home. And now I need to focus on the new feline in my care.

I am taking Jolene to the vet tomorrow and using my new credit card - but there are limited funds and paying it back is my current concern when I have payments taking up to the 1,000s combined due these next two months.

I am setting it to $550 for now (because they take a portion), but the price my change depending on what the vet says and what is wrong.

I know she still need to get treated for ear mites ($300 on it's own) because the current medications I've been using are not working."

This is my fundraiser.

Additional pictures of her adoption papers added on here as well proving when I got her. JOLENE IS A REGISTERED ESA NOW.

Jolene as far as I have been told is two years old, though she is very small for her age. She is a sweet heart though she was likely on the streets for a most of not all her life before she was taken to the shelter and I adopted her a month later.

She is a sweet cat that just wants to check and make sure that you're okay. She'll cuddle. She doesn't meow but she does trill and sound like yoshi.

She just wants to make friends with everyone. And if you're not petting her enough then the grabs your hand and brings it right to her face as she stands on her back legs.

This is the last fundraiser I'm making. Ask anyone I know in real life and they'll tell you just how much I despise asking for help. I want to be able to do things on my own. But until I get one bite from the hundreds (literally) of jobs I've applied to as a secondary then I'm at a loss. I can't afford to wait and save up for this vet Visit - not when her health is on the line.

I can post a picture of her at the vets office tomorrow as well to confirm, along with the update of what they set.

GoFundMe

PayPal

Venmo

Currently $750/$750

UPDATE - 08.02.2023

UNDER THE CUT

We went to the vet today.

TL:DR - she is on medications for the next two weeks, roughly. She did very good at the vet and was very brave. $500 was close, it will come out to be roughly $700 all together after ear mite treatment; we are holding off for now until the other cat in the house can be treated or they will just jump between them, which gives some more time to get there funds. But the over the counter medications are not strong enough to fight the infestation, and depending on severity, it could lead to long term health problems.

So I changed it from $550 -> $750 (again, because they take a processing fee). I also added in there roughly $200 that had been sent from PayPal and Venmo to give a more accurate show off current raised funds.

Below are screenshots of the update explaining more, along with pictures of Jolene at the vet today.

(Straight up, I almost cried because in the right two months that I have had her this was the first time she had crawled into my lap to lay down and cuddle with me.)

[sir-adamus]

this isn't directed at anyone specifically, as this is a sentiment i've seen a lot, but i think some people were expecting some kind of catharsis in regards to Neo being punished or just straight up dying in the volume 9 finale because they don't personally like and are therefore dismissive of the character; and then making claims that it was bad writing that she didn't get the shit kicked out of her and was then killed, but instead getting to bow out gracefully and taking the first step to improve on herself and find herself again (which, i have to say, is not a redemption, the claims of 'bad writing' always paint it as such which is weird to me - it's like, the start, at best)

and i've been seeing this sentiment for months and, from the perspective of someone who never really had an issue with the character and liked the way she was handled, every time i've always had the same question of like, is it bad? or do you just not like it? cos let's be real that's been a major, major problem in this fandom for years, and even the people who complain about it coming from the loud vocal minority are often guilty of similar behaviour, just in more 'acceptable' ways

there was this really good post i reblogged the other day, which i'll link here, which basically covers my general feelings on this in regards to media in general, but in specific regard to the show;

a) the main characters' priorities have never been on personal payback, and neither has the show's (which it makes a point with several times, with Yang and Blake giving Adam multiple opportunities to stop and just leave as just an example, which he doesn't take), so there's no reason for them to go after Neo when she's no longer a threat

b) by the time WBY would've had the opportunity to 'punish' Neo for everything she did, Neo was possessed, and in the aftermath of that, was no longer hostile to them because of the events leading up to her getting possessed in the first place

RWB/Y is a show with lots of thematic resonance, we see parallels and layers and one of the major themes in the show is grief, and how you handle it; in the Ever After, Neo serves as a microcosm of Salem - she lost the one positive (though ultimately co-dependent and not particularly healthy) relationship she had after a horrible childhood of isolation and instead of coming to terms with her grief, she dedicates herself to revenge (which was her characterisation click moment when she returned in volume 6, as that return actually gave her motivations and a goal, versus how she was in volumes 2 and 3, where she was just kinda there and didn't have all that much to her) and it consumes her, so when she actually does get that revenge she wanted, instead of there being any kind of catharsis, she's just left hollow and empty because she has nothing left, which leaves her open to getting possessed by the Cat

but after being freed from possession, Neo has no reason to keep fighting because of that prior realisation, and comes to the conclusion that she needs to move on, with the best opportunity to do so being letting the Tree help her. and this is what loops back to the post i linked; Neo is given the option to stop and change and she takes it

does it come too late? sure - but by the same note, better late than never. besides, the Ever After is a fairytale world where the normal rules don't apply, so 'late' isn't as damning as it would've been

[aspoonofsugar]

hey! Good day :) here to ask a question!! I was wondering about your process for analysis, character analysis, theme analysis- do you just write or are there specific things you look for? I suppose I’m curious if you have an idea/general gist of what you’re doing or steps you take to do your breakdowns. I’m trying to do something similar out of interest and your works are simply fascinating to read. I look up to your writing a lot!

hello!! Can I ask how you started analysing shows, how you went about it? I’m learning literary analysis and trying to do the same for hunter x hunter but I find it infinitely harder to analyse shows. Especially since I most notably consider diction in literary analysis lol

Hi!

Thank you for your nice words anon(s) and yay! I love meta-asks <3<3<3

So, it depends on the meta. In general, I try to focus on a specific topic, which can be:

a character (arc + foiling between characters)

a theme

the use of a specific motif, when it comes to a character or a theme

These are my three favourite kinds of analyses, but there are other types, as well. For example, some people are really into plot theories/predictions. Others prefer to focus on characters from a psychological viewpoint. Some other writers like to use philosophical lens or to compare different works. It really depends on your preference.

My preference is mostly for thematic analyses. This means that my character metas too tend to use a thematic lens. So...

WHAT IS THE THEME?

In short, the theme of a story is both:

the topic the story is exploring

the moral of the story, aka a phrase which summarizes its message

Stories explores topics through characters and plot, while the way the conflict is solved tells us the moral.

Some examples:

RWBY's main topic is humanity in both its weakness and strength and its moral is that victory is in a simple soul

Madoka's main topic is wishes and its moral is that it is worth to want things and to fight for them, even if it is painful

HXH is strange structurally, but its main topic is self-search, with its moral being that a person should not focus on the goal, but enjoy the journey

All of these messages and ideas aren't just things stated in dialogues (even if someone saying the theme helps). They emerge from the story itself.

RWBY's main conflict is about a destroyed world (remnant) surviving the anger of an evil witch (Salem). If humans let hate divide them, they lose. If they unite, they win. The main thematic question is then... can humans make the right choice? And the answer is that they can, as long as they remain simple souls (Ruby, but also Pyrrha at Beacon, Blake in Managerie, Yang in Mistral, Weiss with her family, JNR when they tag along and Penny in Atlas). The main message is that several people making the right choice leads to change. And that is humanity. This is why the characters keep being asked to give up their idealism and to embrace a more utilitarian way of doing things. And this is why every time they refuse and stick to their idealism. The conflict itself keeps testing their resolution.

Madoka's power system works through wishes, so the girls' powers and their backstories are all defined by their wishes and by how they relate to them. Madoka doesn't know what she wants. Homura's wish turns into an obsession. Mami makes a wish too early and thinks only about herself. Kyouko and Sayaka make a wish for someone else and have opposite reactions to their wishes ending poorly. Finally, it is revealed the girls' wishes are literally the force that keeps the world at balance. So, the plot, character arcs, conflict and worldbuilding are all about wishes.

HXH is made up of several arcs and each arc has its own theme. That said, the overall structure conveys the main theme. Gon's objective is to find Ging, but he keeps taking detours and getting engulfed in unrelated conflicts. However, the moment he meets Ging he realizes it is not his father who defines him, but rather it is all the people he met in his journey and his own experiences. Basically, HXH's strange structure conveys the main theme.

So, the theme (both topic and moral) should emerge by the characters, the worldbuilding, the conflict and sometimes even by the structure itself. In order to find it, one should start with the topic and ask themselves "What does the story really talk about?". The answer to this question will let you understand the theme as topic. The second step is to see how the story explores it.

DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW ON THE TOPIC

There are different ways a story can explore a topic. Still, the best stories have different perspectives clash with each other. Very often these different points of view are embodied by different characters.

Here are some examples, with some linked metas that explore the respective stories more in depth.

Madoka (topic= wishes):

Homura is determined to fulfill her wish no matter what

Kyubey is her opposite, as they are unable to wish since they lack feelings. This is why they need to recruit girls into creating energy through wishes

Madoka is in the middle, as she wants to wish for something, but doesn't know what

Mami, Kyouko and Sayaka all explore negative effects linked to wishes, which are connected to other secondary themes. Specifically, Mami explores the consequences of an immature wish, while Sayaka and Kyouko explore the selfishness/selflessness inherent in wishes

The conflict is solved through Madoka learning about the price of wishes, but still choosing to make a wish and to sacrifice her whole self for it. This ending conveys a specific moral: despite the pain and sacrifice that comes with them, wishes are still beautiful and worth it all. If Madoka had chosen to give up being a magical girl and had ended up the series without making a wish, the moral would have been the opposite: that a normal life is better than grandiose and dangerous dreams.

Monster (topic = the value of life)

Tenma believes that all lives are equal, which is why he chooses to save Johan as a child, despite being ordered to operate a far more influential patient.

Eva and Nina believe that not all lives are equal. In particular, Eva thinks that social status and importance in society influence the value of one's life. Nina instead believes that people who commit crime should be punished and lose their lives.

Johan believes no-life has value, including his own. In his words, the only thing all humans are equal in is death.

Here, the moral is conveyed through the Tenma/Nina vs Johan's conflict. Tenma is tested in his beliefs, but ultimately does not abandon them and ends the story by saving Johan. Nina instead is asked to change her mind, as she ends the story embracing Tenma's point of view.

RWBY - The Atlas Arc (topic = trust)

Ozpin lacks trust, as he is unable to trust others, no matter how loyal or dedicated to his cause they are

Ruby wants to "trust safely". She wants others, like Ironwood, to prove themselves to her before disclosing the truth to them

Ironwood is initially on Ruby's same page, but he spirals and comes to embody the "enemy of trust" aka control. He doesn't trust others, but wants to control them.

Oscar embodies trust, as he wants to trust Ironwood since the beginning. Even later on, he keeps on trusting people like Hazel and Emerald who are his enemies.

Cinder embodies another "enemy of trust", aka manipulation. She doesn't need to trust others to work with them, as she can use their feelings and wishes against them.

Penny embodies faith, which is a more extreme form of trust. She sacrifices herself and leaves the maiden power to Winter. She has no proof Winter will be able to save Weiss, Jaune or the relic, but she entrusts the future to her.

All these characters struggle with trust and its dangers. Some, like Ozpin, Ironwood and Cinder decide that trusting is too dangerous. Others, like Ruby, Penny and Oscar realize that to trust is the only way to move forward. Moreover, they learn there is not way to trust safely. As a matter of fact the moral of the arc is that "trust is a risk" and risks mean that things can end up badly. Still, not to take risk means to give up hope.

Hazbin Hotel - You didn't know song (topic= knowledge)

This song explores the idea of knowlege. The characters are after all in the middle of a questioning, which leads to several secrets coming out. Moreover, throughout it all the characters either admit or realize how ignorant they all are. The way they deal with this lack of knowledge establishes different thematic stances.

Charlie and Emily are both naive and ignore the darkest sides of their loved ones. Charlie doesn't know Vaggie used to be an exorcist and Emily has no idea Sera ordered the exterminations. Still, their answer to ignorance is to keep on questioning. They have no idea why only certain souls are admitted in heaven. Still, they think it is important to investigate the phenomenon and use it as evidence that there might be hope for the spirits in hell.

Lute and Adam don't know why some spirits end up in hell and others in heaven. Still, they do not bother to question it. So, Adam is caught by surprise by Charlie's question and has to improvise an answer. Not only that, but even later on the duo insist that Angel not being in Heaven proves he is unholy. And that's it.

Sera does know about the extermination, as she knows the system is unfair. Still, she refuses to question it and forbids others to do the same. She is the only one whose sin isn't ignornace, but knowledge.

There is no a clear thematic resolution to the question posed by the song. This is because the series is not over yet. However, the scene sets up the theme and the way characters will deal with it in later seasons will give us the moral.

As you can see, not only whole stories (like Madoka, or Monster) have themes, but also arcs (RWBY) and even episodes or scenes (Hazbin Hotel). That said, the way to go at it is always the same. Pintpoint the main topic and start investigate how the characters or the worldbuilding deal with it. You are gonna get several stances. The one which emeges victorious is the moral.

Let's highlight that the moral is not always embodied by the protagonist. For example, in the Madoka and RWBY's examples, Madoka and Ruby are initially at a loss and come to learn the moral by the end of the story (for Madoka) and arc (for Ruby). Similarly, Tenma initially does believe the moral, but doubts it throughout the story, only to be reminded and helped by other characters (like Nina).

In any case, the way the protagonist and characters in general relate to the main theme and to secondary themes is key for their arcs.

CHARACTERS AND THEME

When it comes to theme a character can either:

Believe the moral since the beginning

Not believe the moral since the beginning

In the first case, the character either stops believing the moral by the end (negative arc) or keeps believing the moral until the end (positive arc). In the second case, the character either learns the moral (positive arc) or doesn't learn the moral (negative arc).

In short, the story keeps challenging the character on their beliefs and they must either stick to their point of view or change it, depending if they believe in the moral since the beginning or not.

Exhibit A:

Charlie's belief that sinners can be redeemed is right. Still, in the beginning nobody else agrees with her, so she is challenged by the world around her. Her objective is not to lose faith in the Hazbin Hotel and to inspire others to change their mind too. Throughout her journey, she is bound to grow too. She starts as sheltered and naive with a simplistic idea of what redemption is. By the end, she will gain a deeper understanding of redempion and will grow as a result.

Exhibit B:

Eren's journey is about realizing what freedom (the main topic) is about. The problem is that he fixates himself on the idea that freedom means no boundaries, either natural nor humans. This leads him to embrace destruction and nihilism and to lose himself. In the end, the character who realizes what freedom truly is is Mikasa. She doesn't discard her bond with Eren, but is still able to make independent choices and to live as herself. In short, Eren doesn't learn the moral, hence why he spirals instead of growing.

Charlie is a protagonist who knows the moral and will grow with it in a positive arc. Eren is a protagonist who doesn't know the moral and never learns it. This is why he has a tragic negative arc.

These are just two examples, but there can be different combinations. By interrogating yourself on how characters relate to a theme, you get better a better understanding of their role in the story and of their overall arcs.

Still, how to find themes in a story? Luckily, each text is full of hints that are there for us to interpret them.

MOTIFS

Motifs are repetitive details within a story, which are used to communicate themes.

Anything can be a motif: a line, a musical tune, a specific imagery, an object. By repeating them in key moments throughout a narrative, they become symbols, which means they can lead to bigger metaphors and convey specific meanings.

In the song More Than Anything, dream is one of the main topics. We realize it because the characters keep mentioning it. At the same time, light keeps popping up. Lucifer summons light and throws it away, Charlie rememebrs a light show Lucifer imrpovised for her. Lucifer and Charlie start the song in the shadow and they end it in the light. This means that "light" is a motif throughout the song and by seeing how it is used we better understand the theme and the relationship between the two characters. We understand that light is a metaphor for dreams. Lucifer gives up on it, Charlie is inspired by it and eventually Lucifer summons it back as he has decided to believe in Charlie's dream. By looking at the way light is used, we can see that Charlie teaches Lucifer the moral that it is worth it to fight for dreams and not to give up on them.

In the CAA of HXH, gungi is a motif that comments both the topic of humanity and Meruem and Komugi's relationship. Their matches become a metaphor of monstrosity vs humanity, as humanity slowly conquers Meruem to the point he himself chooses to live and die as a human, rather than the King of the Ants. Similarly, Kokoriko symbolically becomes Komugi and Meruem's child, in the sense they give birth to this move and evolve the game.

Sometimes, their meaning is unique to the story. For example, gungi is a motif that makes sense within HxH and can't be brought outside of the series, as it is not a real world game. It only exists in that universe. Some other times, a motif can tie to bigger sets of symbols. For example, light and shadow are universal symbols that bring with them several additional meanings:

Good and Evil

The Jungian persona shadow

In the Hazbin Hotel song the first dychotomy doesn't fit, while the second one does. Initially both Lucifer and Charlie hide things from each other (shadow), whereas by the end they show who they are (light).

In short, to analyze a story, you should find its key motifs. They are hints to better understand the theme and the characters. Different stories will use different motifs and tie them to different wider sets of symbols. To find the right ones can help a lot in better understanding a story, as a whole.

Some examples:

RWBY uses fairy tales and alchemy as its main motif, so these two sets of symbols are the most useful to analyze the series

HxH is a shonen and uses its powers and fights to convey character arcs and themes, so to analyze one's nen abilities helps a lot

Hazbin Hotel is a musical series that takes inspiration from religion and mythology. So, it is probable that the best understanding of it will come from analyzing its songs and from looking into its religion inspiration

Of course this doesn't mean you should only use one motif to analyze a story. For example, you can use RWBY's semblances to look into the characters, as well. And there are some fairy tale allusions in Hazbin too. In the end, it is about using what best helps you understand a story as a whole.

What is more, there are general sets of symbols that can be useful in most stories, such as jungian archetypes. Finally, you might want to start from other aspects of the story itself, rather than theme or characters or plot. For example, you might be drawn to the world-building and realize it is used in a special way to explore the theme. Or you might be curious about character designs and see that they have their own symbolism (for example, I believe RWBY ones do and probably Hazbin Hotel ones, as well).

SOME PRACTICAL ADVICE

I have linked in the title of each paragraph, but this last one an article by @septembercfawkes. Her posts are great to better understand narrative structure and I found them enlightening.

I think the best thing you can do is to start with focused metas. Choose a scene, a character, a motif that intrigues you and start exploring it. It is better to start small and to narrow your focus, it would be easier to organize your article.

I usually outline the contents of the meta before starting to write it. Still, it sometimes changes as I keep writing.

It can be useful to write at the beginning of your analysis what you are gonna do. It will help you remember what the point of the meta is. For example, in my RWBY allusion meta or HxH nen meta, I always start with the motif I am analyzing. I summarize the fairy tale (even if many people know it already) and I explain what the character's ability is about. It helps organizing the flow and the contents.

The more you analyze the better you become at it, so it is just a matter of starting :)

Thank you for the asks, I hope this was helpful and not too much confusing!

Have a nice day!

[transsexual-dandelions]

Weekly tag Wednesday !!

Thank u for the tags @spookygingerr and @especially-fuk-u !!

Name: dean :D

Age: 18

Your time zone: EST

What do you do for work: I’m in school right now so nothing, but this summer (probably in a couple weeks) I’m working at a pool store and maybe an ice cream shop

Do you have any pets?: yes!! I have a calico cat named Salem, she’s my best friend and so cute I love her so much

What first drew you to the fandom: I kept seeing clips of shameless on TikTok, I finally caved and started watching it over the summer, and I got hooked ever since (averaged a season and a half in a day), lurked around the fandom for a while but then started majorly interacting. I’ve never been normal about anything I’ve ever consumed, this is no exception (autism goes brrrr)

Morning person or night owl?: night owl baby!! Earliest you’ll get me up is 10am, I’ll go to sleep around 3-4 am (I also have insomnia)

What are your hobbies?: any type of art or craft, I paint, sew, draw, bookbind and just random miscellaneous stuff, my last art project was making spikes for my jacket from soda cans. I also read, like, a lot, mainly fanfiction bc special interest, but also I love non fiction (essays, memoirs, political theory) and some fiction (I love love love horror), I’m a major Jack of all trades, just constantly looking for something new to try

How tall are you?: 5’6” baby!

If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?: anywhere warm and with a beach, I love summer and I’m built for it, I’ve considered New Orleans a lot for some reason, maybe California but I also hate west coast culture so um there’s that

Favorite color: yellow !! My and my siblings were color coded to prevent fights, and yellow was my color as a kid and it’s just stayed my favorite, and people always unanimously agree yellow is a color that Suits Me, saying i have yellow and sunshine energy, it also just best on me compared to other colors

Favorite book: this is such a hard choice, im going to say the perks of being a wallflower I think, ultimate comfort book really, but I also love to talk and think about Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison

Favorite movie?: it’s a horror movie called the empty man, it’s SO weird and SO fucked up with the most normal and sane horror protagonist

Favorite fic: I could never choose, one I’ve been thinking about A Lot is the origins of girldadism, but I also love meanest hunk of woman and enemy lines I’ll recommend them till the day I die

Favorite musical artist: I love love love Green Day i could talk abt them forever I’m going to see them in concert this summer and I’m SO freaking excited, honorable mentions are Noah kahan and old dominion

What is your average screen time so far this week?: 8 hours and 10 minutes. Higher than I was expecting considering all I’ve been doing is studying

What’s the first app you open in the morning: Spotify! I need music all the time ever, it helps me get going in the morning on weekdays, and on weekends either tumblr, discord, or Instagram depending on who’s texted me

How long have you been on tumblr: I think this summer will be 6 years?

finally (and i know this one is hard) tell me a fun fact about yourself: I’m learning my third language (Ukrainian) and planning a fourth (French, probably in college (I’m so done with Spanish bffr)) I also make my own recycled paper! I think that’s always fun to mention

I’m tagging:

@mickeym4ndy @astaraels @em-harlsnow @mickittotheman @transmickey

@transmurderbug

@atthedugouts @jademickian @liza420

And anyone else who wants to !! Ur welcome to do so !! And no pressure, you can otherwise consider this a friendly hello, fist bump, dap, and/or an “I’m thinking of you”

[strqyr]

So here's an Ozpin quote that with recent discussion and possible context has become quite quite interesting: Everyone has a choice. The Branwens chose to accept their powers and the responsibilities that came with them. And later, one of them chose to abandon her duties in favor of her own self-interest. Now, all of you have a choice. If anyone wishes to leave, now is the time. There's no shame or disgrace in abstaining, only in retreat

With the context of Raven possibly leaving to let Spring be able to escape and not be another Maiden stuck in the middle of Ozpin's shadow war... Ozpin's proven tendency to withhold information already put the whole "retreat" being the shameful part into murky territory especially with the pressure on Pyrrha. If Raven essentially torched her relationships to get Spring out selfish she may be but the act that was framed as shameful wasn't. But I'm someone that'd see springing Spring out as heroic

...oh.

there's no shame or disgrace in abstaining, only in retreat. the spring maiden was determined at first, but soon enough it all became too much for her and she ran, abandoned her training, everyone. she didn't abstain, she retreated.

one of them chose to abandon her duties in favor of her own self-interest. ozpin gifted the branwen twins not only so they could gather information on salem's plans, but to search for maidens when their hosts became unclear. raven abandoned her duties in favor of her own self-interest... abandoning her duties adds up if she helped spring escape—it's the complete opposite of what she was supposed to be doing—but what would be her own self-interest?

survival, but not just her own, her family's as well; "i lead our people now. and i will do everything in my power to ensure our survival." "convince raven branwen that the survival of her people depends on her cooperation." "i only know the raven dad told me about. she was troubled, and complicated, but she fought for what she believed in, whether it was her team or her tribe." (all i care about is my tribe—my family.)

there's also kindred link, and how they revealed details about how it works in the same episode as ren says this: "a common philosophy is that a warrior's semblance is a part of who they are. some say your personality and character define your semblance while some claim that it is the other way around." assuming that the mystery portal is to spring, all the pieces are here.

qrow obviously cares about his family, but he also goes on missions that take months, and gave ruby all the information she needed to head towards mistral, already counting her in before she even knew what was really going on; "our enemy's trail leads all the way to haven." in short, he's not exactly putting family before work. question is... did raven?

what really interests me is that, if raven helped spring escape and thus cut her ties to the inner circle, it basically puts her into the same position as team rwby were in V8 with penny; penny, who was a military project. penny, who was let in on the secret as part of ironwood's own inner circle. penny, the protector of mantle, a task given to her by ironwood. penny, the employee of the month, to show how dedicated she was to her job.

penny, who became the winter maiden, and her first action as one was to leave atlas for mantle, the military for her friends. penny, who struggled with the responsibility, was guilt tripped to return to atlas, the inner circle. penny, who just wanted to live her life.

ruby did everything she could to save penny, even risked using the staff to do so. raven would do everything in her power to ensure the survival of her people; if she had a bond with spring, surely that counts as her people, right? so... does 'everything' include leaving behind her team, her baby, to help a child who became overwhelmed with a burden too heavy for anyone, let alone a child?

[miss-andromeda]

i want your dreary mondays- for the taylor swift prompts!!

Another from Paper Rings! Let's do it - and thank you so much for the ask 💜🩷 Once again, non-canon, but considering they're dating, this is post-season 1 🩷

----------

Another day, yet somehow this one was worse than usual.

Maybe it was the fact that she woke up late and kept April and Casey waiting for her. Maybe it was the utter fool she made of herself in physics, during the demonstration. Maybe it was the fact that she forgot her lunch because of the aforementioned running late. Maybe it was when she was walking home, she stepped in mud and ruined her shoes - and then accidentally tracked mud into the apartment building, earning her a scolding from an elderly lady walking in behind her.

No, it was everything, just piling on top of each other - and culminating in an overall rotten day. 

When Andi was finally inside her apartment (and tossed her sneakers into the washing machine,) she slumped into her room and face-planted onto her bed, before groaning into her bubblegum comforter. 

She would’ve stayed there for the rest of the evening, were it not for the chorus of “Hurricane” (his favorite song from Salem’s Witches) blaring from her measly phone speaker. 

“Damn you and your charm, never causing me-”

“Hello?”

“Hi, enchantress. Did you just get home from school?”

Andi nearly teared up at hearing how warm and relaxed he sounded. “Yeah…do you want to come over?”

Donnie, however, ignored her question. “Are you okay? You sound…melancholy.”

She never knew how he could pick up on things like this so easily. “Um…not really. I just-” She interrupted herself with a deep sigh. “-it’s easier if you just come over.”

“I’ll be there in two shakes of a turtle’s tail.”

Her lips quirked up in a lopsided smile as he hung up. 

“Thanks, Don.”

----------

And sure enough, she heard soft tapping at her window less than 10 minutes later. 

She slowly rose out of bed, ignoring how her hair looked like a mutated bird’s nest, and managed a little smile as she saw him patiently waiting at her windowsill. She walked over slowly, before lifting the window with a little grunt, before leaning against the windowsill. “Hi.”

“How are you doing?”

Andi was about to say ‘fine,’ but Donnie read her like an open book. So she knew if she tried to downplay it, he would know she was lying. 

So…she told him the truth.

“Is drained a good word to use?”

“Depends. What’s the context?”

“90% of what happened today was terrible, and it was just…one after another.” Andi heaved a sigh as she moved aside, letting him step into her room. “So, my question stands; is drained a good word?”

“Definitely.” Donnie gently pulled her into a hug, letting out a sigh of his own as he felt her slump against him. “I’m sorry, enchantress.” He mumbled to her, a hand going to rub her back. 

“Not your fault…” Andi mumbled back, her face buried in his plastron at this point. “I’m sorry I even have to bug you with this.”

Donnie gently pulled her away, tilting her chin up to make her look at him. “You’re not bugging me. If you’re bothered about something, even something as simple as you just had a bad day, a dreary Monday if you will. I want to be able to help with that. Even if it means just holding you for a little while.” 

Rather than respond, Andi just put her arms around his neck and stood on her toes. “I love you…” She murmured, smiling weakly when she felt him kiss her head.

“I love you too.” Donnie softly replied, then pulled away to meet her eyes again. “How about I stay with you for a little while? You can tell me everything that happened today - and then I can help you forget about everything.”

“That…” Andi heaved one more sigh as she stood back on her feet, untying the ribbon from her hair, allowing her hair to fall down her back. “...that sounds wonderful.”

[powertaco]

Alright. So what would you do if CRWBY (RT) contacted you and asked you to help incorporate Whiterose into canon? Would you do it? If so, how, and if not, I’d still want to know how.

I'm sure most of us would like to. I don't know if I'd be the best person for the job, or what not, but I think at this point you'd have to play for the long game and aim for like last volume.

I think the general groundwork for a relationship, especially with V6 is there but needs built on. Ruby and Weiss have pink petals only when together and the color pink used as petals is used by Ren's new semblance when he detects love.

There's tons of symbolism and pictures/promo material of WR being very important with each other. I don't see Weiss with a shield in the promo material nor do I see her thirsting over Jaune in the spin off stuff or Ruby looking at Oscar or any symbols that represent him. Manga anthologies, the movie crossover, IQD are all supremely WR coded.

They need to talk and be partners again. They need to have conversations and set things right between them. Weiss needs to come clean about why she was taking Ruby for granted, and Ruby needs to apologize for not talking to her about things, and they need to have a real partnership going forward.

V10 (they said 12/13 was their planned end point at one time so we'll go based on that) would be about this in the background with the war against Salem likely taking center stage as well as the fallout of Atlas.

I'd like to see more Ruby still falling into bad habits (unlearning them IS hard) but her team, and Weiss in particular helping her plan and taking the work off her shoulders and helping to divide it up. Even if they don't want WR endgame this is something that needs to happen because they're supposed to be best friends.

Blake and Yang as much as people might hate it need to take a slight step back. I'm happy for them but they're too wrapped up in each other to the point that they're the others world to the detriment of everyone else.

More interactions with other partners. Yang and Weiss and Blake and Ruby need to interact a bit more.

Blake and Yang can talk to the others and in time start drop hints about things but mostly as teases for now.

Once Salem finds out Cinder lied to her...a lot I would expect her to have a less than pleasant time and probably not be doing much outside of not dying. We might get the start of a 'we found the summer maiden' plot here.

V11 I would focus on the relic of destruction. I'd probably have this be the volume Tyrian dies likely as the villain of the volume in a battle for the relic. Seeing as they wanted 9/10 to start turning around you need to give the team some wins. So either they win and get the relic or they kill tyrian but still lose the relic. Depending on how they run with Theodore he could live or die securing the relic.

Based on how little of a chance Team RWBY seem to have against someone like Cinder they need to upgrade their semblances or one of them is probably gonna have to end up a maiden at some point. If they go that route then Raven actually dying to give her powers to Yang is possible but we need more from and about Raven before I'll buy that she'd do something like that. Unless of course she somehow gets ambushed and is dying then she might think of Yang. If this does happen i imagine we'll get more of that flashback from earlier.

Good chance for Ruby and Blake to comfort her if that does happen because well if Yang does end up with them then I mean it's clear what happened and her mom is dead. I imagine Qrow wouldn't take it well either but he has Robyn so she'll prob be helping him a bit.

WR would start incorporating little touches like they used to. Shoulder grabs, little quick hand squeezes and hugs that go on just a second too long and more playful banter in and out of battle.

They should still be serious when it calls for it but not have an issue just hanging out in the limited downtime they do have. Others should notice they seem to be happier now and have WR not understand what they mean.

V12 would likely be the start of Ozpin/Ozma opening up with some more deep lore and hopefully someone calls him on the whole 'jinn only said you can't kill her' angle. Probably not.

From here it really depends on how they plan to resolve Salem. Is it gonna be a hail mary we're united and have the relics fix it gods thing or not.

If it's not then I'd like to see them ape the gods and use that to 'kill' salem for good. Ie Ruby's eyes represent the light and Weiss and her grimm summons the dark. Working together and in concert to kill her just like the gods combo powers cursed her. If you want it to be a more team thing then Yang and Blake can represent light and dark too. Jaune can amp up their auras to an extreme level for this to work. Whether this kills him or his ultimate fate is irrelevant.

Ruby would be a bit more mature after Ever After and talking with her friends and Weiss would start taking notice because as Kara said 'Weiss like maturity'

If you wanted a twist for after this then have the gods show up and be pissed that rwby undid their work. 'who are you to undo what we gods have done etc?

From here they can drop the knowledge bombs that they're no better than runaway kids who left and what not.

The gods can then either bring back salem again proving that they're massive hypocrites since they told salem earlier she didn't understand the value of life and death and cause the gods to want to wipe out humanity and faunus.

At this point I'd expect the blacksmith/tree to basically be like 'no you're done' and drag them back.

If they don't bring salem back they could be like 'well humanity has come together so you know what good enough stay that way or else.

Then you'd have a few after it's all over episodes.

Now that the war is over they're focused on rebuilding. Weiss is busy helping Whitley and Willow and Winter (if she's alive) rebuild the SDC.

Ruby appears and asks her to take a break for dinner. Weiss is going to refuse until Willow tells her they'll manage and shoos her out the door.

Weiss asks where they're going to meet Blake/Yang, and Ruby says 'oh i was kinda thinking...it could just be us two.' Weiss could say something with a small blush and be like 'I'd like that' and it could cut to the other couples then credits.

Admittedly part of me would find it hilarious if Weiss gets fed up with waiting and just grabs Ruby and smooches her mid final battle.

Or the safer route just have a scene set after the war 5/10 years and casually let it be dropped they married in that time to avoid having to do anything.

Personally if I was doing RWBY from the start I'd make the WF bigger antagonist along with Jacques and probably cut out the whole brother gods/salem deal. Maybe even magic and maidens. I think that could be a lot of fun and as attractive as mommy salami is I don't care much for her in the story. Great VA though who really nails the voice I'd imagine for Salem.

I'd probably also keep them in school for another year and have more inter-team friendships. Like Blake , Velvet, Ruby, and Ren having a book club, or Ren and Weiss bonding over having super high energy partners.

Yang and Pyrrha work out buddies. Ruby and Jaune playing games with Nora probably joining it.

That sort of thing.

Of course if I was writing RWBY I'd find a way to have Maria hold WR hands so you know.

I hope I understood the question and if not I apologize.

[bug-the-chicken-nug]

on my latest rwby au bullshit, which I think i will officially start to also tag as the "Silver Wolf" AU.

Silver Wolf AU: Premise

A combo of Ruby being a wolf faunus (on top of getting rid of the stupid rule about one trait because fuck that i want her to have the ears, tail, AND sharp teeth and nails) and having silver eyes, but silver eyed warriors now being considered like... this creepy-but-unfortunately-necessary group who barely anybody wants to really associate with, under fear of it "cursing" you. By extension, they are now known as "Witches" rather than "Warriors", regardless of gender. (This also makes it possible to just shorten it to 'Witch' and have it already be pretty obvious what a character is talking about, so it rolls off the tongue better, while also creating this uncomfortable implication that these people are put on the same level as Salem despite directly opposing her.) The "curse" is a more superstitious exaggeration of the unfortunate reality that associating with them really can put you at risk of becoming collateral when they're hunted down, on top of their eyes now being not all-or-nothing Grimm nuking, but instead having a sort of "level up" system, and the potential to unlock certain abilities that can affect people too. (the new common thread being that all of these abilities have to do with sensing and/or eliminating "darkness" and "negativity", not just Grimm) The fear of association, powers that can be directed towards humans, and the societal shunning would also do a lot to help explain exactly why Witches are so scattered and fragmented, and why people know so little about them. Because in canon, it just seems like they should be heroes who everyone should know about and have a vested interest in supporting.

Relationships:

Also, this AU would 100% be a Ladybug thing. Because I can just see Blake standing up for Ruby, and Ruby immediately being head over heels in response, but having no idea how to actually express it and also being paranoid that Blake will just think she's weird like everyone else. (And meanwhile Blake is paranoid about how Ruby will react if she finds out that Blake is technically a terrorist, and also friend/sister-zoning Ruby big time for the first few volumes, less out of a genuine lack of interest and more because of her subconscious fear of commitment)

Although there'd also be other fragments of Ruby ship teases, just because I imagine this version of her to have developed "gets a crush on anyone who's nice to her for five seconds" syndrome. (Yes I'm sorry, I know a ton of y'all hate Jaune but my Ruby's friendless, bullied, avoided, desperate-for-validation ass sees him being nice to her and unafraid of her for like ten seconds and is lowkey already thinking about a spring wedding.) This also includes a one-sided crush on Ozpin, just for how I think that'd be kinda narratively interesting and potentially a little fucked up. (Especially because the full nuance of why it's interesting can change depending on how grey this Ozpin's morals end up being. Is he subtly using it as leverage? Could this version of him be dickish enough to lead her on? Does he do it on purpose? Or does he even notice her feelings at all? Does he notice and subtly try to discourage it? What happens when he gets stuck in Oscar?) And a crush on Marrow, literally just because I think it'd be funny. Marrow: *obliviously friendly* Ruby: *practically ready to become Ruby Amin, just because he's a fellow Faunus, complimented Crescent Rose, and didn't say anything about her eyes* Blake, looking on: hmst,,, don't know why but. this is bad, actually. Weiss: *sighing deeply* you obviously know why. Meanwhile I figure Yang is human, because only Summer was a Faunus, and it kinda puts this weird Thing between her and Ruby where Ruby both greatly admires and envies her, but lowkey resents her, because she feels like Yang will never truly understand what she goes through, and gets to "have it easy". On her own end, Yang has had to sacrifice a lot of social opportunities to prioritize a good standing with Ruby, because even just admitting relation to Ruby makes people treat Yang differently anyway. So Ruby thinks of herself as a burden, and Yang is desperately trying to hide the fact that she *agrees* with Ruby, deep down. She thinks the burden is *worth it*, but she doesn't know a way of properly conveying "It's okay that you're a burden sometimes, I know it's not your fault, and I still love you even if I get frustrated with you sometimes" that doesn't make her feel incredibly guilty and paranoid that she sounds insincere. And finally (at least for now) I think this would be inch-resting for Adam because now Ruby has something that can actually give her something to do with him too, and make her feel more connected to the things that go on around her. She could even have weird mixed feelings on him, stemming from him seeing her silver eyes and not only expressing approval of them, but trying to get her to come around to his side, using the extra discrimination she's faced because of them to try and butter her up and manipulate her.

[etincelleart]

Honestly, my ideal Penny is one who's mostly or entirely mechanical, loves being mostly or entirely mechanical, but is able to refuel using food somehow.

Just, getting rid of the mechanical body feels like taking away Blake's cat ears, an important part of the character's identity is just GONE all of a sudden.

Plus, Penny being entirely mechanical was the one thing stopping the Atlas Arc from being disgustingly ableist. (I'm just going to say there's a reason I put more focus on how Ironwood treats other people's bodies versus him exercising his own bodily autonomy when I want him to raise red flags in my fics.)

Heck, my ideal Winter is a paralytic who relies on mobility aids to get around. (Here's how Cyborg!Winter can still win!)

There's a reason I'm hoping that reviving Penny would cost Winter the Maiden Powers. We need more positive disabled rep in canon.

I see what you mean, but in that case they shouldn't have made her human at all then. I completely agree about the fact that her robotic functions and abilities are amazing and make her really strong and unique, like when she gave precise directions to go in the military base, or when she detected Cinder's warmth in Amity so she was able to tell the difference with all the clones. But what I think would be cruel is to make her human (and she was surprised/shocked, but not displeased by it), and put her back in a robotic body. What's the point of making her human and open so much doors and possibilities for her to explore every aspect of humanity, if it's for closing it right away and putting her back into a body we already know ? We had several volumes when she was there to discover her android abilities, and even if she's always full of surprises, I think making her human kinda makes it impossible (to me) for her to go back into a robotic body. It's like a step forward for her to really live her life, and it would feel weird for me if she was just in a metallic body once again. But I can understand why people would prefer a robot Penny, and I would be completely ok with it IF she didn't have that human body from Ambrosius at the end of Volume 8. But putting her back into a robotic body really feels like gaining the ability to smell, to touch, to feel the world in a empirical way, only to shut it down immediately and keep her to what she was before. Narratively it wouldn't really make sense to me :'] And even if robot Penny was incredible during V8, I think human Penny still has a lot to discover ! I mean there's this whole empirical aspect of course (what would I do to see her eat food or drink for the first time--). But she also doesn't have any Semblance, during the short time she was human she didn't get the time to discover it. Depending on what it is, it could be something really interesting to discover, just like Jaune unlocked his Semblance !

As for Winter, I like how she was helped by some exoskeleton at the beginning of Volume 8, it was nice to see her struggling for a bit after what Cinder did to her at the end of V7. I like Winter as the Winter Maiden tho, it makes sense for her and she seems more confident in that position than Penny was, because Penny never wanted these powers and Winter finally learned to accept them and embrace them to help her do her best. I wouldn't be mad if the Maiden powers could just disappear too someday, I don't want Penny to be the Maiden back, it's either Winter stays the Maiden, or the powers finally disappear because idk, who knows what could happen at the end of RWBY, the two Brothers and the Blacksmith could definitely be involved. But yeah I thought that if Ozma and Salem finally stop their war and decide to rest, then the magic they gave to people (as Ozma gave magic to the Maidens) would disappear as well.

[asmallermorehonestsoul]

Now that you mention it, what percentage of RWBYJNO even *knew* any grandparents? Weiss sure did, Jaune *probably* has, Oscar might...Nora certainly doesn't, and I have capital-D doubts about Blake (because persecution) or the Patch Megacabin Sisters (because cryptic traumatized magic special ops family).

HEADCANON/THEORY/RAMBLE TIME I have thoughts

Under readmore not to be annoying

First, Ruby and Yang:

Qrow and Raven are the ones I feel most comfortable theorizing here. I think they were taken in during a raid very young, and didn't have any specific parental figures given Raven says "the tribe" raised them (now whether their bio parents died before or during the raid... hmmm...) but yep they would not know much on that front

Summer... I am presuming she had at least one silver-eyed parent who was killed by Salem's forces. As for the other, I don't know.

Tai's I really don't know. Either the other Rose and Xiao Long parents are dead, or are very estranged/jerks not come help after Summer died. Neither is a good option, so it doesn't seem the girls would now much.

Weiss: Well, I'm sure she has met Nicholas and Nana Schnee (as dubbed by Chibi) but between Jacques' shady dealings and Nick's poor health, I don't imagine she saw them frequently. Jacques probably shuffled them off somewhere to keep them from interfering w his way of running the business.

As for the Gelés, I already made a post but to repeat, I could see Jacques ditching them when he managed to get Willow. I doubt the Schneeblings have met them (but I hope they are nice and do get to meet their grandkids)

Blake: I would have to agree that she has at least one grandparent she lost to violence... possibly the Faunus War itself since the timeline seems plausible. Furthermore it seems probable she travelled around often as a child with Kali and Ghira while they were active in the WF. So not many chances to know them. I made a post saying I think Kali's parents lived in Mistral based on a portrait in the home though. (I can imagine they got to say hello between Vols 5 and 6)

Jaune: He did have a line about his paternal grandfather in Jaunedice Pt. 2. saying "My father, my grandfather, and his father before him were all warriors! They were all heroes!" It's likely Jaune met him, but whether he died in the line of duty or is just retired I don't know. We also don't get anything concrete about his other grandparents though.

Nora: Yeeeep, I doubt she knew her grandparents given her backstory, even if she references her grandma in Chibi. I won't forget when a lot of poeple thought it was Fria though I suppose there is a question of how Nora and her mom ended up in that state to start with.

You said JNOR but I still want to bring up my headcanon of Pyrrha having only her mom, so no for her.

Oscar was being raised by his aunt. We don't know his backstory, but if his grandparents are alive they were not willing or not able to care for him. Any of those is as likely as the others.

I just made that post for Ren so yes, but maybe he met them a few times, or more frequently depending on how long they lived in Kuroyuri

[bestworstcase]

And what does Salem want? Narrative has been saying “end the world so she can rid herself of the curse,” and sure, that might not be it because it’s based on faulty assumptions. But wouldn’t her end goal be to get out of immortality?

well. the narrative has said a lot of things:

to “change the world,” qrow says, “is exactly what the enemy wants” (v4)

salem “can’t be stopped, can’t be reasoned with, and will not rest until humanity crumbles at her feet,” says raven (v5)

salem’s rebellion sought to “destroy their old masters” and “claim the powers of their creators for themselves, and in turn, perfect their own design”

millions of years after that crushing defeat, she tells ozma they could “become the gods of this world” and “create the paradise the old gods could not”—same goal.

”why spend our lives trying to redeem these humans when we could replace them with what they could never be?”—in essentials, irrespective of how you read her specific meaning, this is “why should we try to go back to the old ways when we could make something new?”

salem is doing all this to “tear down the huntsmen academies,” ruby says (8.5)

“you’ll only be helping her bring about the end, for all of you!” oz shouts in a desperate attempt to scare cinder out of bringing the staff to salem (8.6)

hazel believes she’s trying to create a “new world order” with no huntsmen academies and no kingdoms (8.7)

oz deliberately misrepresents the nature of salem’s immortality to support his claim that “all she craves now is release. death,” while trying to scare hazel into turning against her

tyrian believes she’s “destruction incarnate” and “wishes to see the end of it all!”

salem tells cinder “in pursuit of a new world, no cost is too great” (8.14)

in WOR episodes and her soliloquies, salem speaks highly of humanity and of the democratic councils but is utterly disdainful of the huntsmen academies (which exist to “protect a lifestyle,” in her view) and of ozpin’s “guardians” and “monuments” to a “so-called ‘free’ world”—her protégée grew up a slave in the heart of atlas, ozma’s crowning achievement—and she declares that his guardians will fail him, his monuments will fall, and that she “can’t wait to watch [him] burn.”

so… on balance, not only is “salem intends to change the world” the first thing we’re directly told about her, it’s also the narrative that aligns with both salem’s history (on three separate occasions in 6.3, she rejects the divine order and envisions a new world without the brothers) and everything salem herself has said (“in pursuit of a new world” + her specific ideological problems with the “lifestyle” huntsmen uphold, a lifestyle that turns a blind eye to child slavery, inequality, genocide—remember the faunus had to fight a war to stop the human kingdoms from trying to forcibly “centralize” the faunus population in menagerie (1.12)?—and relies on using children as cannon fodder while restricting all training in self-defense to an elite warrior class that more or less exists above the law, bc people who live outside the kingdoms don’t need huntsmen)

the only character who truly, unquestionably believes that salem wants to Destroy The World is tyrian, who is off his rocker.

everything oz says about her plans in v8 has to be taken into consideration that he’s 1. a practiced liar and 2. actively trying to manipulate salem’s agents by appealing to their fear of her, so he has a strong incentive to distort the truth—which he does, by misrepresenting her immortality as a ‘curse’ and lying about what the end clause is. (the brothers didn’t curse her, per se; they dropped her into the fountain of life and told her she could “rest” only once light was satisfied that she’d learned her lesson).

and then raven phrases “she will not rest until humanity crumbles at her feet” in an ambiguous way that could mean either “salem wants to destroy humanity” or “salem is going to confront the gods and get everyone killed again” depending on how much raven actually knows.

the other factor to consider is that. it’s really strongly implied in the lost fable that salem accepted that she might never be mortal again before she even incited the rebellion. “if she were to turn humanity against light and darkness, she could rid herself of their curse, or at the very least… she could make them suffer.” <- she hoped that she could find a way to become mortal again, but she knew it wasn’t a certainty. the god of light implied to her that only he and his brother could restore her mortality; she dedicated herself to destroying them anyway.

like. she made a choice, then. that she wanted to topple the brothers even if it meant she would never ever be able to die. and even after they butchered the world and left her deathless in the ashes for millions of years, even after she became desperate enough to throw herself into the pool of grimm… when ozma told her there was a way to call the brothers back and plead for mercy, salem didn’t hesitate even for a second before saying no. she has no interest in redemption.

if she wanted to die the only thing she’d have to do is go to ozma and tell him she’s ready to repent. they both know that’s what it will take for the world to be spared, salem humbling herself before the gods to repudiate her rebellion. and it’s not like salem has any pride; she says “it’s all my fault” with her whole chest and describes exactly how she erred with cinder in front of her whole inner circle (and ozma), and she calms down when yang tries to provoke her on purpose.

it doesn’t matter if she’s actually repentant or not. she knows the brothers aren’t omniscient; all she has to do is bow down and say the god of light was right about life and death and she’s sorry for being so selfishly arrogant. and then she could rest.

but… “we finally had freedom.” and “your monuments to a so-called free world.” and her song: “you can’t have my life/i'm not your sacrifice/you can try, but i’m free/and you won’t conquer me/i won’t crawl/most of all/i won’t fall/for you.” and hell even the myth she quotes to ozma when she rejects the mandate: “This land is no less hospitable than where we came from,” the people on the beach said. “But here at least we have control of our fates, free from the influence of others.”

freedom. over and over and over again, what salem wants is to be free; first from her tower, and then she finds her freedom in ozma’s eyes, and then immortality is her prison only for as long as she’s trying to kill herself to reunite with ozma but becomes her greatest weapon the moment she turns her attention to liberating the world from the tyranny of the brothers, and then she believes she’s found freedom with ozma again until he admits his true his intentions and:

she’s back in the tower again.

the divine mandate, ozma’s endless crusade to destroy her, to rid the world of her influence, to keep her in exile by casting her as the root of all evil while he tries and fails and tries and fails again to unite the world without her so he can summon his gods and be rid of her forever—that’s her tower, now. salem just wants to be free.

[lore-of-the-silvereyes-rwby]

STRQ’s dynamic and impact

Questions asked by @angstandhappiness

 What are the theoretical scenarios for Qrow had he not been chosen by Ozpin to be included in his inner circle, with or without the rest of STRQ? 

Interesting question but to answer this it depends on one factor overall concerning Qrow, Raven, and by extension Taiyang  when being chosen by Ozpin; Summer Rose and their relationship with her. Now this is speculative but in all honesty the only reason why the rest of Team STRQ were chosen and involved in Ozpin’s circle is because they are in the same team as Summer Rose. 

And due to Summer being affiliated or descended from A literal God of Light aka Pure good with the whole silver eyes thing it stands to reason that overall, Ozpin would make any compromise to ensure he had one or as many of the silver eyed warriors as he can to be his Ace in the whole as even though he can’t defeat Salem then maybe something descended from a literal God can.

So no matter what Scenario concerning Qrow and the rest of team STRQ; Summer is more or less going to be chosen and made aware of Salem and everything else by Ozpin regardless of whether or not he choses any of her teammates or friends in the scenario that you provided and asked.

Second another factor to consider is Raven Branwen herself and her own relationship dynamic and intentions. I think it's a safe bet to say that out of all the members of Team STRQ Raven is the least likely to have been chosen by Ozpin without any persuasion or influence of someone truthful and honest to speak upon her behalf for membership. And chances are without knowing that or being tempted by Ozpin’s secrets or benefits it's possible that there would be no spark of interest to temp Raven into joining Ozpin. Also it should be assumed and made apparent that out of all people Raven Hated the Summer, Ozpin and Salem the most as they embodied everything and anything that she can never or hope to be

From Raven’s perspective we have Summer as the unique and important one that towers over everyone and is loved and admired by everyone more than her. 

With Salem we have ultimate power and strength making her afraid since she can never amass that kind of power nor admit her fear resulting in her being a hypocritical coward that would rather run away to save face than admit she's weak or help anyone unless it benefits her ego and bride.

And last but not least Ozpin in terms of surpassing and cheating death via his reincarnation and that no matter how many people she kills or how much she trains to become more powerful or how smart and clever she thinks she is it infuriates her to know that someone as passive and weak as Ozpin has achieved what she can’t and has and will likely out live her once she dies and so on.

(Side note I doubt Raven knows about Salem’s immortality or ever did and unless canon says otherwise just assume any of her counter arguments against fighting salem as an excuse to be a hypocritical coward than doing the right thing)

Finally the reason I think Ozpin allowed Qrow and Raven who are at the time murderous bandits who came to Beacon just to become better killers and Tai who is more or less just an average guy who wanted to be a Huntsmen to be involved and aware of Salem is because of Summer’s influence. They are only involved with Ozpin and Salem because Summer wouldn’t join Ozpin without them. Either due to friendship, her status as their leader or something else, but from Summer’s perspective the rest of Team STRQ mattered to her enough that they deserved the choice and option to join or at least be made aware of what's really going on.

And from that Qrow and Raven gained world renown combat skill, gifted the power to shapeshift and possibly not being turned over to the authorities for their crimes because Summer vouched for them to Ozpin that they may be of use and that they can do great good and should be involved.

So the question and scenario isn’t about whether or not Ozpin decided to choose Qrow and the rest of STRQ to join him or not, it is whether or not their Bond was strengthened or weakened by being chosen by Oz and whether or not the bonds of STRQ had or will have any influence during the shows events. 

This is especially important  to consider since the Team are the Parents and mentors for two of the 4 main characters with one of them being considered both the series main protagonist and chosen hero.

Possible scenarios from this include; 

Summer joins Ozpin but doesn’t get her way and doesn’t have her team by her side in the circle 

TRQ remain the same and are less powerful than they would be in canon

Raven is less of a threat as an antagonist

Difficulty for Ozpin and his group with TRQ and especially when Ozpin dies and reincarnates into Oscar

Summer is least likely to disappear and likely taking the place and role of Qrow in the show

Depending on Raven she may and may not leave

If she stays then Ruby’s father is changed due to Tai and Raven still being together

Summer joins Ozpin but only Tai is allowed to join

Qrow and Raven remain the same and are more or less absent from the plot

Tai might grow closer to Summer instead of Raven and get together first instead.

Ruby might be older than she is in the show

Yang may never have been born

If summer disappears Tai might take the place and role of Qrow in the show

Raven is less likely to become the spring maiden and involved in the plot

Summer Joins Ozpin but only Qrow is allowed to join

Overall plot remains the same save for small changes

Summer and Qrow might be closer than they wherein canon

Ruby’s father might change depending on Raven

The threat of Raven is almost non existent

Summer joins Ozpin and somehow convinces him to let Raven join

Not gonna lie this is pretty much the bad and worse scenario if it did happen

Raven might use this to turn the rest of STRQ against Summer and OZ

Ruby’s father might change if Tai is turned against Summer

Events are more or less the same except Qrow and Tai’s roles are nonexistent and are less likely to help or aid in the plot

Raven might be more of a threat than she is in Canon

Summer may or may not disappear

So from all of these there are numerous variations of these scenarios concerning team STRQ joining Ozpin or not but in all honesty as fun as it is to speculate and imagine these possible outcomes and what if’s I must however say that all the events that we see and know from the good and the bad up to the present of the show have been both necessary and required to happen in order to ensure a win. As we can all guess the good guys are going to win no matter what because everything that had happened concerning the plot happened for a reason that led to that point and outcome

This is something known as Eucatastrophe or a sudden and favorable resolution of events in a story; a happy ending.

So yeah even though it would fun to imagine and speculate about what could have been with team STRQ it should be noted that in the end everything that had happened to them happened for a reason as it ultimately serves and contributes to a desired outcome

And too be honest there’s really nothing much as far as I know that STRQ contributed to besides just being the parents, mentors and reasons for two of the series main characters; Ruby and Yang.

This is more or less the only reason I can honestly say now about why Team STRQ mattered if they ever did. Their overall importance was to genesis and train two of the show's main characters with one of them ultimately being The designated hero that would end this story on a happy note.

Do you think Ozpin had anything to do with Summer's disappearance, indirectly or not? 

Given certain dialogue and interactions from Qrow and Salem in V7 and V8 and known lore and logical conclusions I would have to say indirectly but it would be very minor. Like I doubt Ozpin gave Summer the order to go kill Salem because Like I said before Summer more or less was his Ace in the hole and no matter what I doubt Ozpin would have been so careless enough to send his important subordinate and friend to a needless death without making sure she was ready and prepared and more importantly not alone.

In the end Summer Rose’s disappearance is entirely her own fault and she left of her own will and most likely did so out of impatience and before she was ready to confront Salem with the primary cause for this choice being fear and concerns for her own daughter and family.  

[goldsrc-hl1]

I think there’s a ir of a difference in what constitutes “trying to be good in a bad world” and “trying to make everything worse”

I don’t actually know much about critters rewrite, but It seems like they’re trying to do something similar to nimona, where nimona is introduced graffitiing a propaganda poster and then spraying pain in a guys eye for insulting her, throughout the film she embraces bi g considered a monster and is active key trying to get the other main character to come over to the “dark side” and call himself a villain, and later on they do team up to try and destroy the order of monster fighting knights who have controlled and “protected” the kingdom since its founding, and yeah getting into several fights with that kingdoms authorities,

So the idea that ruby stealing means she’s sue how being evil because the world is evil seems kinda like a poor read, critter possibly has a perspective more like the one I mention, the rewrite still most likely sucks (again, I haven’t read it and probably never will) but just having ruby stealing seems like a weird thing to focus on, or having Roman be somewhat right when he targets society,

I also don’t personally think that wanting to tear down a world that has only ever hurt you is inherently wrong? At least not if you don’t mean so literally destroying everything,

Take Ilia for example, human society, or at least atlas society, killed her parents, mocked her for it, and tries to punish her whenever she dares to fight back, to ask for more, the world at best ignores her suffering and at worse has already decided she was a monster, so why shouldn’t she lash out? Why shouldn’t she get angry? Again this doesn’t excuse the kinds of things Adam did like murdering random people,

But frankly I think parts of remnant society need to be dismantled, wether that’s through gradual legislative change or occasional violence depends on the specific situation and has yet to be seen,

That’s kinda the biggest complaint I have as I’ve stated before team rwby seems unwilling to actively go out of their way to challenge current remnant society except as a way to stop Salem, maybe because they don’t have time to while dealing with Salem but then I wonder why you even include all those societal issues the way they did. Making them integral to the majority of the villains motivations

Especially since Salem destroyed atlas making those issues moot anyways

Many have said it was to show how atlas’ systems of oppression ultimately destroyed it, but they didn’t, they helped Salem destroy it yes but Salem was still necessary in that equation, if Salem had simply decided not to attack atlas it would still be floating more or less unchanged until/unless Robyn managed to continue her work,

Yeah I agree with pretty much everything in this

Ruby stealing stuff is fine as a completely different character, but it just doesn't fit RWBY or Ruby Rose for me. I just don't like it.

Team RWBY try to be as nonviolent as possible at first, seen with trying to persuade Ironwood, but once he starts getting violent they get violent right back. I'm hoping they learn the lesson that sometimes there is no peaceful solution to oppression on par with Ironwood's.

I've never understood the whole obsession with making Roman Torchwick justified, he's so much better as an unjustified yet still understandable and fairly nuanced near pure evil character. He's evil as hell, he LOVES it, and we love to see it. He's got charm, he's got a sense of fashion, and he's just plain enjoyable.

All of this while still having him be fairly nuanced through his whole thing about everything he is doing being done for the purpose of survival and not necessarily because he likes doing it (though he does like doing it to be fair).

[kineticallyanywhere]

Okay I WOULD like for Emerald to be the Fall Maiden. BUT, do we really think she's gonna be the last person in Cinder's thoughts? The only females she'd think about are herself, Salem, and Ruby, unless it's a female killing her. So unless Emerald kills her....

I think it depends on the scenario where it happened!

For maximum drama Emerald would be present to see her die, and that alone ups the odds. Then Emerald could be in her final thoughts from either trying to save Cinder, even after everything that Cinder's done to her (because Emerald still struggles to let go, because Emerald has been shown what true caring is and wants to share it, a number of possible reasons) or maybe even because, like you said, Emerald herself was involved in Cinder dying.

Either way you could get a heart wrenching scene of these two confronting each other in that white space as the powers pass on, like Penny and Winter had but with a very different tone. No interruptions or outside influence. Just what Cinder thinks of Emerald and what Emerald thinks of Cinder.

And then, for better or for worse SORRY I JUST NOTICED I HAVE POLLS NOW Cinder will always be a part of Emerald now. Part of her past, but nonetheless part of how she got there. But even further back through that link of the magic, you can follow it back to Oz, who is Oscar, who is the person who reached out a hand to her to help her find a better life.

its just. THE THEMES!!! they'd be so RICH

[aparticularbandit]

Thinking about Claire Debella and age requirements.

A person has to be thirty years old to run for Senate, so we know that she is at least thirty.

However.

In Connecticut, a person must also be thirty to run for governor. The term for a Connecticut governor is four years, which means that - because Claire is governor of Connecticut running for senator, she now has to be at least 34. On top of that, there are no term limits for governor in Connecticut, so Claire could be governor before running for Senate pretty much indefinitely, provided that voters chose her.

And this, of course, assumes that Claire became governor at the earliest possible moment and that the election cycle hit when she would have been turning 30 (not off by a year or more).

Kathryn's 49, yes, but we know from WandaVision that a good MUA can make her look significantly younger (Salem!Agatha is supposed to be 18, and I know that is a 40+ year old woman playing that part, and I still think she's 16). From the pictures and trailers we've seen, however, I don't think they're looking to push her towards younger; having Claire mid-forties fits well enough.

Now. Point of this.

Conceivably, Claire could have come from an itty-bitty small town - or a town that isn't so much small as it is not large. There's no reason to assume she came from anywhere big, so long as she can talk and put for the appearance that voters will like. Starting small might actually have not been bad for this; it easily could have bolstered her confidence running for class president and such throughout high school, and then moving on to much higher collegiate pursuits, assuming that she had all of her ducks in a row to look good for - probably Ivy League schools; Claire strikes me as an Ivy League type.

Likely Claire was in private school to some degree, just depends on when her parents put her into private school and when they had the money to do so - depends on if we want to believe she came from wealth or not (and this is something that would be easier to theorize, you know, with more info, but also when it comes to politics, coming from a family of politicians or a family with already established wealth usually helps - even if she is a Democrat (based on Connecticut voting patterns over the last several elections, there's little reason to think that she isn't)).

But being in private school - unless she was in a boarding school (and even then, she would get at least Thanksgiving and Christmas break back with her family - I would expect her summers to be full with...things that would look good on college applications or future political pursuits, depending on how early she knew she wanted to get in the game (or how early her parents pushed for it))—

The entire point of this is that I can easily pretend that she and Eve are actually roughly the same age and, although Eve would certainly not have been in private school or at an Ivy League college, they might have known each other perhaps in elementary school or from other etc. around town they might have both been interested in. Helping out at a senior center for charity work looks good for applications; maybe Eve was already there for reasons of her own just. being Eve.

I don't see them with shipping potential like Eve and Agatha, but I could see them very easily as something like friends, perhaps.

Depending, of course, on what we end up seeing in the movie.