#connected by misogyny.

[terrainofheartfelt]

ohkayyyyyy so the thing I've thinking about this list.....

a white guy records something that's fucking weird, and the critics and anthologists call him a genius and an influence. and women and people of color write and record something beautiful and true and the work is treated like it's been done and heard before because it isn't as "groundbreaking".......but what is the ground that's being broken?

[ratbastarddotfuck]

I'm a trans dude and I'm sick of all of the transandrophobia truthers out here. you're using the exact same arguments as menenists, instead of just acknowledging that specific men will face oppression over things that aren't their manhood, and that doesn't mean we are are uniquely opressed by some cosmic power that trans women are magically exempt from. they face all of the same stuff we do. plus also misogyny.

am I missing something here ?

it's literally just about the concept that trans men and mascs face certain types of oppression that are specific to (not necessarily exclusive to, but common among and often exacerbated by) being transmasc, and we deserve space and language to talk about those things without being told that we're talking over anyone. nobody* is saying that transmascs are like... more oppressed than trans women. if you are thinking in terms of more or less oppressed, you've already lost.

if you don't think that there are certain experiences with transphobia that trans men and mascs in particular are more likely to have, then I don't know what to tell you.

trans men and trans women are not opposites. trans masc and trans fem are not opposites. we are sides of the same coin. we are community. we are all gender minorities. I don't understand why there is so much harshness around the idea that transmascs deserve language and space to discuss our unique experiences. I'm not silencing anyone else by speaking about my own experiences or sharing those of other tmascs.

some of you people are starting to talk like you think transmascs are an oppressor class. please remember we still live in a cisheteropatriarchy, and that the cis part of that is still very much well and alive. we don't just opt into unfettered privilege when we pick up the he/him pronouns.

*nobody engaging in good faith anyway. there are bad faith actors in every group. don't take them as the face of anything.

[bonebabbles]

I keep starting and abandoning posts that go into my drafts, as I try to stay tasteful about how fucking revolted this part makes me. Like, I'm legitimately unsure if the very relevant trauma I have is making me see things that aren't here

But first we see that Star Flower is trying to ingratiate herself to the group, just after she reappears from chapter 5. Chapter 5 is about how Clear Sky is still abusive towards his son, and she comes in after stroking his ego, stressing how alone she is, and appealing to how she'll be loyal unlike his child. (She glances over at Thunder, directly implying this.)

Now in Chapter 9, she's babysitting and trying to care for Milkweed's kits (in spite of discomfort from Milkweed), taking a wet sleeping space away from the others, and pulling more than her own weight "without complaint." Putting herself through harsh sitations to prove her worth.

All while trying to appear extra attractive to Thunder, and later Clear Sky. Basically every man in power who can "protect her"

Like, am I going fucking crazy? With how we later find out that Star Flower was "promised as a mate" to One Eye's subordinate Slash, is... is that hypersexualization? One of the extremely stigmatized symptoms of sexual abuse?

She goes to find Clear Sky alone to throw herself at his paws, and he's very quickly attracted to how she promises to perfectly obey him, have no needs of her own, and finally be the perfect servant that he desires

"I don't deserve your trust because I am dirt. I understand you because I also regret something. I'd die for you. I'll never betray you unlike those who have."

This isn't manipulation. She means this. The story is playing their romance sincerely. She's comparing "betraying" Thunder by telling her own father about an assassination ambush to Clear Sky's history of child abuse, physical assault, and murder

She believes she's on the same level as this; a monster who murdered a childhood friend in a fit of entitled rage. She was a victim of One Eye who really believes that the way her father used her means she "understands" this monster, deserves this treatment.

And Clear Sky LIKES that.

He likes that she will have COMPLETE FAITH in him. That she will follow him WITHOUT QUESTION. That she will OBEY his orders. That's fucking verbatim, that's THE TEXT!!!

WHILE HE'S STILL CRYING ABOUT "ive tried to atone every day" FOLLOWING THE LAST TWO BOOKS WHERE THE ONLY SHITTY THING HE DOESN'T DO IS MURDER INNOCENT WOMEN

Am I insane?? Am I wrong??? Am I missing something here???? Why the fuck is the fandom takeaway "haha sexy girl steals his dad." Did I read the same book

[ninewhiskers]

making firestar the fourth cat was a shit decision sorry it didnt add a thing to the story and anyway if there HAD to be a fourth cat it should have been leafpool who FOUND THE FUCKING MOONPOOL BTW

[shsl-heck]

Worm fans are really bad at making the connection between "Cauldron is really ruthless" and "Cauldron regards all parahumans as numbers on a spreadsheet at best, livestock at worst". The mentality is that Cauldron is only ruthless when they choose the Renegade option in a specific situation. The idea that their ruthlessness is systemic doesn't register

I guess that explanation makes some sense, but also, its so central to the story's themes that Cauldron isn't just mean or something, but in fact systematic and unrelentingly ruthless in their pursuit of any chance to save humanity. The way Cauldron mirrors how the entities operate, the fact that they control the PRT/Protectorate, Doc Mom genuinely not remembering who Sveta is, etc. There's a lot there, and it all impacts the narrative!

I could even kind of see how someone would miss that if they were caught up in the personal tragedy of Doc Mom and Contessa... except Worm fans are also really bad at realizing that Cauldron is run by two or three people who gave up their entire lives at very young ages and are now desperately throwing things at the wall hoping just one of them will stick so that this won't all have been for nothing.

They're somehow simultaneously overestimating and underestimating the inhumanity of cauldron, and I think it has a lot to do with the whole "one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic", and "banality of evil" thing. Seeing Contessa curbstomp the found family that is Faultline's crew feels horrific because of how visceral and small scale it is. Meanwhile, even if we intellectually know that Cauldron is treating human lives as abstract numbers like currency, it doesn't stick in some people's brains the same way. Or at least that's my best guess.

The real take away of this though is that Worm fans are bad at book.

[fishing-lesbian-catgirl]

The misogyny hydra rears it’s ugly heads again

[rivetgoth]

What is with the weird movement of trans guys rn who are like . “Trans men are never and will never be treated like cis men. Trans men will always ultimately be viewed and treated as women. Misogyny is an inescapable facet of transmasculinity. Male privilege is unattainable for trans men.” We are NOT experiencing the same transgenderism.

[luvbug724]

obsessed w jeanee Actually. she drove hours in the middle of the night for him. she organised a heist for him. she blackmails a university for him. she was willing to break into the nest w brute force for him. she was willing to rob a hardware store to do it. she seriously contemplates climbing over barbed wire fences to get to him. she handles diversions and distractions with grace for him. she has the invasive curiosity to want to know all abt his little knick knacks. she resorts to violence when someone tries to stop her from getting to him. she prays for him. she talks to him softly when the only feeling in the room is rage. she pushes his hair out of his face. she checks his pulse obsessively. YEAH………… are we all seeing this rn

its so wonderful to me too because like this is RENEE. renee, who is a bad person trying very hard to be good. there was a post going around maybe a month ago how empathy for everyone circles back around into empathy for no one i can't remember any of the specifics but it rlly did something for how i see renee because shes a protector. its defensive. its safe. she knows the limits, she knows the point of no return because shes been to rock bottom and clawed her way up but she's willing to do whatever she needs to to get jean out of the nest.

there is a big difference between cradling allison when andrew hurts her vs actively threatening eau, going on the offense to make sure jean leaves safe with her. there's something insane to me abt how a few months of texting and calling jean could push her to that point, the point where she needed to be talked down off the ledge before the plan was more natalie than renee because this was something she absolutely could not fuck up. she knew that her efforts would be worthless if she didn't create a plan that couldn't backfire, because the punishment for jean trying to leave and failing (and i'm sure that message to renee would be used against him) or leaving and coming back would be 1000x worse than whatever they could do to him from a distance.

and then when she has him in his arms and she knows he's going to be safe, he'll be okay as long as she can get him to abby, she can let herself be kind again.

[thetisming]

"i understand why people are scared of men" and "it's important to understand that being a man is not inherently a bad thing" are sentiments that can and should coexist btw

[tea-earl-grey]

i do like the general concept of dot and bubble but rtd please hire Black writers, i'm begging you.

[batfamfucker]

Appreciation post for 'girly girl' characters and/or shows that celebrate traditionally feminine things that girls and women are shamed for.

Characters on this list that love makeup, fashion, hair, etc. Characters that are still written as strong, intelligent, brave, etc. That told young girls that these interests are valid, they are not lesser interests. Being feminine and liking traditionally feminine things does not make them weak.

[cistematicchaos]

Literally all trans people are allowed to and SHOULD talk about their experiences with misogyny. It doesn’t matter how they’ve transitioned or if they’ve transitioned at all, a lot of us experience misogyny in one form or another and we all deserve to be able to have open conversations about that. Especially since acknowledging and discussing the intricacies of misogyny and the way it affects us all is fucking important. This isn’t even specific to the trans community, honestly, it’s just thoroughly disappointing to see it happen in our community when transphobia, transmisogyny, ect, are deeply founded in misogyny and sexism. 

Just a few examples of this I can think of:

Transfems, Trans women and trans people assumed “AMAB” being told to shut up about misogyny because of ~male privilege~

Trans men, transmascs and trans people assumed “AFAB” being told to shut up about misogyny because “you’re not a woman”

Intersex trans people, and frankly intersex people in general, being told to shut up about misogyny because “you’re not a woman. wait, are you? but you’re not a biological woman, are you? wait-i don’t understand, just stop”

Genderqueer, genderfucked people, drag royalty, and GNC people being told to shut up about misogyny because “aren’t you misogynistic anyway, playing into gender stereotypes?”

Like. It’s ridiculous. Y’all will find any which-way to shut people up about misogyny. You don’t want to hear anyone talk about misogyny and that’s the truth of it. Trans, intersex and GNC people in particular. (And that’s not even getting into y’alls racism...) 

Like why don’t you stop pretending misogyny is something only a select few experience and can talk about so you can harass people and instead maybe fucking talk about misogyny and boost other people who are doing that as well. 

[adamanteine]

many thoughts about shams being able to sympathize with her mother but still being angry at her father (and having this one part of her that isn't able to forgive him) despite the fact that she is much closer to her father

[the-owl-tree]

I know it’s unpopular and ig would be seen as chronically online but. a little annoyed at the “UGH 🙄 and here come THOSE people” @ comments those being horrified abt Frostpaw being spayed and connecting it to real life events like bipoc being sterilized against their will. I personally am not one of those people, nor do I think it’s anywhere near that serious or on that level bc I thought it was an interesting turn in the books, but as a black afab myself who would most definitely face forced sterilization if I were not a more privileged individual, (because you know the health system itself loves to play around with our bodies like science experiments as though we cannot physically feel pain) I’m gonna need the yt warrior cats fans to cut it out w the snide superiority complex on “lesser takes” and understand there’s people who are gonna reasonably draw comparisons to these events and see how incredibly horrifying it is what the anthropomorphic cat just went through. not to hit a fucking beehive but why is it acceptable to understand the harmful impacts of misogyny in the series affect people in the real world but misoginoir is taking a step too far?

discourse on bumble being a domestic abuse victim has people understanding and drawing comparisons between that and real life events but we draw the line when woc are brought up. okay. why?

this isn’t at you btw because you generally have nuanced takes and take the time to consider what people are actually saying but like. what’s going on here I’m genuinely blindsided by people rolling their eyes. it is an issue. it’s a huge issue and it’s still happening in places! can’t speak for other countries but it’s still legal on a federal level in the U.S where I live and in my state. my problem isn’t the people drawing comparisons with Frostpaw. my problem is the reaction to that. I don’t understand why one systematic issue can be discussed and the other not without scrutiny and handled as though it’s not as serious topic.

also to note: I am aware that Frostpaw being spayed was not based on any perceived race or ethnicity. I am aware that this was simply for shock value (as of the moment, anyway ((which is what makes it worse imo but that’s another convo))) and I am aware that I cannot speak on behalf of anyone facing this issue but myself and cannot reasonably say that anyone drawing these conclusions will always 100% take the matter as seriously as needed. however I can say that it is a bit difficult for me to accept that in a world where each character has human intelligence, thoughts wishes and feelings, that the concept of forced sterilization, abhorrent and frightening outside of normal cat understanding, frankly should be handled with the utmost care able to be expended. I know it will not be. I am aware. the authors have a history of using their personal bias to push racist narratives before. I understand that people are saying handle the subject with tact and maturity. I just do not believe it is the right or position of a mostly white fanbase to police the discussion of what happens to women of color because we are often spoken over as is. I hope that I have made my point clear? I’m not the best at explaining myself over subjects I’m passionate about, so I may have tripped over my words a bit. I do apologize if it came off as talking in circles

I'll admit, when I first read the spoilers and learned what happened, I drew some connections but I also agree that it's not nearly on that level. But I think it would be wildly inappropriate if I tried to talk on that as a white person.

I don't have much to add, but I think you've raised some pretty understandable concerns and you're very clear in your points, I didn't have any trouble following you! I genuinely have a lot of concerns about the plotline and I think you're right that it's important to be open about these discussions.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Rhaegar and Lyanna haters are gonna have a collective meltdown with the next two books.

And what's funny is it doesn't even have to be their relationship being confirmed as romantic to do it. People just hate that Rhaegar and Lyanna are so relevant to the plot cause they don't think they deserve it, especially Rhaegar. People who spend all their time writing fanon will have a fit when they're actually explored more in canon and further fleshed out. I just know they hate them being so heavily connected to three of our main characters 😭

[kendallroygf]

like there has to be other people on here who are reading past the surface level implications of tom’s behaviour to shiv this episode. it’s part of a wider trend that’s been prevalent since the start of the show. like shiv repeatedly has told tom not to touch her this season yet he never took her seriously and then he flicks her ear. not gently might i add. and no matter your interpretation whether you consider that to be hitting her or not (it basically is) that’s still unwanted touch. it crossed a line shiv literally recoils right after. she looks shocked and tom knows he crossed a line but there just has to be a middle ground between reading it as ‘tom is a wife beater’ or ‘this is just silly failmarriage hijinks’ like there’s so clearly a tonal shift after he lays a hand on her. no less in an episode which clearly shows how similar waystar and gojo are as companies that enforce the idea that women are expendable and under the authority of these companies women are harassed and ignored and abused and then the nature of this abuse is trivialised. and like tom has always felt a certain entitlement towards shiv (eg attempting to baby trap her in s3 + the repeated social climbing attempts made through her every season since s1) but it’s so clearly emphasised this season. and like who has tom been in close proximity to since the s3 finale up until just recently who also feels a entitlement over shiv and also belittles and weaponises her gender against her? who also forces her into the gendered role of Wife/Daughter against her will and whose own abuse towards her is specifically misogynistic in its nature? like it seems to me the proximity around logan has enforced the idea in tom’s head that he has a certain given entitlement and right over shiv no matter what. like the jokes about tom being openly hostile towards shiv now when he hasn’t in past seasons. like i wonder where he internalised all that. who else has acted just exactly like that.. . simply put logan labels shiv as tom’s “fucking wife” enforcing the idea that shiv is just an extension of him and tom. and even now that logan’s gone tom’s misogyny and his utilisation of it has so clearly intensified from watching and learning how logan himself operates in regards to his treatment of shiv and other women close to him.