#i'm blaming any flaws on ned

[chuplayswithfire]

re the ask about stede not doing enough to make up for ditching ed - did it not balace out that ed tortured his crew for weeks and tried to kill lucius? idk why everybody is woobifying ed as if being sad or having a hard life is a justification for any of the shit he did like he has autonomy and chooses to behave the way he does when stede leaves. same goes for blaming all of eds actions on izzy as if izzy forced him to do anything? i think its weird and doesn’t do justice to his intentionally morally gray dimensional flawed character

okay so anon you are bringing up multiple things and conflating them, i think so let's take this one bit at a time

re the ask about stede not doing enough to make up for ditching ed - did it not balace out that ed tortured his crew for weeks and tried to kill lucius?

so first, let's be clear: ed's actions towards other people do NOT balance out stede's actions towards ed. that's uhhhh not how it works. when it comes to if stede did enough to make up for ghosting ed, that is a situation resolved only within ed and stede's personal relationship. stede leaving doesn't justify ed being callous and later cruel to the crew, but likewise, ed being callous and later cruel to the crew doesn't mean stede didn't owe something to ed if he wanted their relationship to work.

now let me further say that...i don't think that ed tortured (members of) stede's crew for weeks. in fact, i don't think he's physically harmed any of the crew aside from izzy, and I would argue that his dynamic with izzy is it's own special beef. if anything, i would say that between season 1 episode 10 and season 2 episode 1, ed's been a classic overachieving boss pushing his staff to the breaking point by having them work long shifts with no breaks and low pay.

this is not good, by the way, i am not saying he is being a good boss; kraken ed is fully that shithead boss who schedules 13 hour days and thinks a pizza party or donuts in the lounge make up for it. izzy tells him morale is low and he asks if they got cake, and then if they want drugs. the crew does not describe being worn down from specific fear of ed - they are worn down by day after day after day of endless raids without breaks; all the worst parts of piracy (the raids, the violence, the death) with none of the benefits (the break time between targets, the shore leave, getting paid).

again i say this is not good because it's not, but also, i think the fandom has marinated in this idea that because ed took izzy's toe he'd be doing all kinds of violence to the rest of the crew, and s2e1 doesn't really bare that out. they're shocked and horrified that he actually shoots izzy, and none of them are missing bits - in fact, the behavior is apparently so unique to izzy that they think izzy and ed have a toxic relationship. if it was any of them getting that, it wouldn't be an intervention getting plotted.

(he did for sure try to kill lucius though, which is why i'm glad lucius got to dump him overboard lol. lucky lucius. izzy tried to kill stede twice and stede didn't even get to stab him once.)

idk why everybody is woobifying ed as if being sad or having a hard life is a justification for any of the shit he did like he has autonomy and chooses to behave the way he does when stede leaves.

now half the fandom is woobifying ed because we love him and like him and also because the other half of the fandom is wildly racist about him so.

but, also, it's important context that the showrunner describes ed's actions as "a bit much" and "not entirely inappropriate". in the context of their environment, most of what ed did is not that shocking or stunning; he has hurt people, but even the people he hurt move on from it relatively soon, and we can see from spanish jackie (who doesn't give her employees enough money to pursue their own ambitions/perfectly fine with killing a husband to remove an obstacle) and ned low (literally all of that in episode 6) and izzy (in the like ten minutes he was captain and forced people to season his food and threatening folks with going hungry for laughing at him) that pirate captains are, generally, pretty shit, actually.

roach and archie at various points express sentiments that show this is all pretty normal for pirates; it's not that ed wasn't a dick, it's that he wasn't uniquely evil or fucked up. it's also that his behavior is sympathetic to many people because the show makes it abundantly clear that he's incredibly depressed and suicidal, and while it's definitely NOT okay to hurt people because you're in a bad way, the show is definitely more geared towards "even when you do all that fucked up shit, you still can be deserving of love and compassion if you reach for it" rather than "if you do fucked up shit you instantly are on the death list".

same goes for blaming all of eds actions on izzy as if izzy forced him to do anything? i think its weird and doesn’t do justice to his intentionally morally gray dimensional flawed character

izzy's not responsible for ed's actions in the sense that he put a gun to ed's head during every move, but he plays a critical role in making all that shit happen. it's like how stede wouldn't have ghosted ed if chauncey hadn't of dragged him out of bed - the festering self hatred that chauncey tapped into was there in stede, but he wouldn't have given in without a jolt from his past. the festering self hatred in ed wouldn't have broiled over into the kraken without izzy, but that was all still in ed.

izzy is pivotal in all that shit happening. if izzy hadn't of come in and jabbed ed in every sore spot he had and been a huge homophobia ridden pest that *also* threatened ed if he continued behaving in a way izzy didn't like, ed wouldn't have gone all kraken.

however, ed still DID go all kraken, so like, yeah, he did that shit. izzy is the explanation for why he did, but it's ed who did it so he has to make amends.

but also like ed is only as morally gray as literally everyone else. frenchie and roach are both in full support of torture. jim fully tried to kill a guy for throwing a glass at archie. all of them are professional murderers who make their living being the absolute living nightmares of people who are just living their lives doing their thing.

ed isn't any more morally gray than anyone else, but it's very weird how people try to make it out like ED is the intentionally morally gray character when it's just that this is a show about professional violent criminals, so the show doesn't really moralize about acts of violence.

now taking it back to the top though:

nothing ed did to the crew would change stede's need to re-earn ed's trust for ghosting him without a word and not being honest about his feelings and doubts. if ed wanted stede to atone for that, that would be ed's right as a person in the relationship - just like it would be the right of frenchie, archie, jim, or fang to want to ed to do something more before they offered their forgiveness. the fucked up shit you do to other people does not retroactively justify the fucked up shit someone else did to you. stede doesn't get a get out of the doghouse free card for ghosting ed just because ed was a dick to other people; he gets a get out of the doghouse free card because ed decides to forgive him and try again.

[lemonhemlock]

My all time favorite angle of the Valyrian gods versus the Faith debate, is that a lot of the fics/takes around it by Team Black seem to like the Old Gods (which fair enough, I too like the creepy trees. team stark 5ever) or at least play lip service to it to make the Faith of Seven seem less cool (no one has the vision for how insane fantasy Catholicism can be except for GRRM himself) but also including Targaryen characters being respectful/kinda into the Old Gods, which KILLS me. I blame the wildly non-canonical weirwood in the Red Keep’s godswood in the show. It drives me INSANE. What is that doing there!!!!!! The Red Keep has no weirwood!!! Who planted it there???? You telling me that Maegor or Jaehaerys took the time to plant a weirwood for the Old Gods???? If I see one more fic where a Targaryen marries someone not of the old gods under a weirwood tree I’m going to kill someone.

I’m SO defensive of the weirwoods because I know none of them have delved into the fucked up human sacrifices that likely created weirwoods plus the rich symbolism that they create (hello Sansa in the Eyrie, I love you), the erasure of the North-South religious and cultural divide, and acting like the Targs would be so cool with the Old Gods for no reason is driving me nuts.

I just hate the show’s weirwood tree, it makes no sense. I will never find peace as long as I keep seeing scenes from the show set under it.

(Sorry for being insane in your inbox again )

Don't worry about it, your inbox drops lead to interesting discussions! 💚

Totally agree with you on the Old Gods & the unsavory blood ritualistic imagery (like hanging entrails from the branches of weirwood trees). I mean, it may sound heavy metal, but if we're supposed to be critical about religion,* this should definitely come under the magnifying glass, too. As is the super creepy idea that Bloodraven is spying on everyone using the weirwoodnet and manipulating historical events like that.

I also don't see why Targaryens should be Old Gods fanboys either - what could they possibly gain from this? It's such a fanon interpretation, because the old religion doesn't have any organized structure that could act as a political actor. There's this projection happening, because Christianity has flaws IRL and a fraught history, when people encounter its fantasy equivalent, they automatically think any other religion is better. I'm waiting for Cult of Starry Wisdom acolytes to come out of the woodwork and preach how much better Nyarlathotep is than the Seven Gods puts together.

As for the godswood in the Red Keep - Ned tells us it has an ancient, huge oak. That kind of tree can only grow like that over a very long period of time. There's no mention of a weirwood in KL that could have been cut down; also I don't think you can plant weirwood trees? Else I think people would do it more often in the North. I honestly think it's there just for nostalgia reasons for the audience. Though I wonder if George agreed with this addition and why. Maybe the lack of a weirwood in KL was an in-universe limitation he imposed on Bloodraven's power?

*at least that's what they think they're doing, by writing all these critical essays on how problematic the Faith is, but they never bother to do a comparative analysis with the other religions available in-universe. Or they peddle their own headcanons as fact, like how supposedly Valyrian society would have been so much less sexist than Faith-worshippers, ergo their religion should reflect that.

[themalhambird]

To R in the fervent hope he will never read it: My heart belongs to none but thee, mine own, gentle hart. Thou givs't, my love, my life to me- thou art the very air Which I do breathe, thou art my very soul and my whole self Is drawn to thee as a white rose to the warm sun. I do not intend to woo thy love with these words-- My tongue is lead and yours silver, well versed In poetry, eloquence, quick witted jest. It is your second nature, the art of disarming With a pretty turn of phrase designed to cut or heal. This being so I know you do not trust the craft To say something more than what the list'ner would hear.

And if I flatter myself that my words might please-- I would prove myself worthy to thee, dear, by deed.

[agentrouka-blog]

You know? Lets talk about Sansa's flaws, we have been accused of ignoring them lately and idk I just wanted to talk about them:

1. She can be quite bratty and snobbish to Arya. 2. She often divulges blame where it doesn't belong, like blaming Arya/Nymeria for Lady's death. 3. She would rather make excuses for a horrible person (Joffrey, Hound, LF etc) than facing the terrible truth (similar to Ned and Robert). 4. Her unhealthy mechanism of dealing with trauma aka whitewashing horrible memories (unkiss).

I could only think of these. Can you name more? I'm actually interested in this.

Hi anon!

I've got one!

She is too hesitant (yet!) to take charge of a situation if there is someone else to do it. To her own detriment.

She unlaced her gown and crawled into her bed, but she did not sleep. Was he still there? she wondered. How long will he wait? It was so cruel, to send her a note and tell her nothing. The thoughts went round and round in her head.

If only she had someone to tell her what to do. She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. (ACOK, Sansa II)

Sansa likes to be certain of a situation before she takes a step. It's what makes her excellent of remembering social protocol and remembering house sigils and status and offices and names, and all that fun stuff. In theory, their rigid society has a "proper" response to every situation, even if that response is to censure a deviation from propriety. Courtesy is a lady's armor.

When a situation is outside the norm, Sansa wants to play it safe, to avoid veering too far. It's what makes her hesitate and evade when Ned puts her on the spot at Darry. She instinctively knows there is no good outcome to this situation, but she doesn't have the temerity to voice that, or to ask for assurance, or to openly avoid his command to give testimony in any other way, so she evades by "not remembering". It is not helpful.

It's what makes her defer to Dontos, even though he's a drunk and doesn't share pertinent information, it's what makes her defer to Littlefinger even after he murders Lysa, it's what makes her doubt her own conclusions or hesitate to question some facts. It leaves her vulnerable to the machinations of others, and it leaves her looking complicit from the outside.

A notable exception is during the Battle of the Blackwater, when Cersei just up and leaves them all. Sansa has zero guidance, so she is forced to make choices. And they are good choices. She takes charge, she calms people, she saves Lancel, all good.

This is something she really needs to grow into, to depend on herself more, to burden herself with the responsibility to make the final choice, to trust herself. Even if she fails at first. There is a point where a refusal to do so would be the mark of moral cowardice, and this is the point where Sansa is going to have to jump off.

[sweetestpopcorn]

Hey popcorn, do you like Sansa? Thoughts on her? What would you like to tell the Jonsa stans.

I have heard so much from Dany antis, that Dany is unsuited for Jon, her temper, her actions. Now I'm a great Dany fan, don't care at all about Jon and his arc, and not a fan of Jonerys. How is their pairing bad Incestuous but Jonsa a good Incestuous pairing - something Ned stark would have approved of.

Hi there 🤗

Well those are a lot of questions XD

I do like bookSansa, not showSansa (not a fan of Sophie or how Sansa was written in the show, sorry), but bookSansa I do. In a way I think she is a good representation of how self centred young people are and how they will hurt others significantly without that being their intention. I like flawed characters like her as I think they feel very real. And back in the days of seasons 1 and 2 most people I knew couldn’t stand her. I had a friend who called her Sonsa instead of Sansa (sonsa is Portuguese for a person who is kind of fake and posing). And my general impression was that people were too hard on her. Yes we have other young characters, sometimes younger, that are not immature like Arya and Dany, but to me the surprise isn’t someone Sansa’s age acting like she did, it’s someone of Arya and Dany’s ages acting so mature and having such a deep understanding of the world and such a high emotional intelligence.

At the same time, I also feel for the tragedy of her story. She had a highly privileged and sheltered life that did not prepare her for what the world would throw her way, and the mistakes she made all came with a very high disproportional cost. I feel this is true of many of us out there. Our parents try to protect us, but in protecting us too much they do not prepare us for life, and this makes growing up much more painful. 

Besides this I also like that her story mostly focuses on court drama #dramaalert which as y'all know I LIVE FOR THE DRAMA; and many of the characters around her are very VERY interesting like Little Finger and Myranda Royce which is a queen - if only Rhea Royce was like her, Daemon's marriage wouldn't have been such a sh:t show XD change my mind!

So all in all, I am interested in her story and I am here to see her trying to seduce Harry the Heir like #majordramaalert and what exactly Little Finger will do next.

Do I think she will ever be queen or queen of the North?

But I still want to see how it goes for her yes 😂

As for Jonsas…

First, I see no problem with people having crackships. Like ship whomever you want I don’t care 🛳⛴🚢 as long as you don’t come to me and make or want to force me to also like it. I don’t care what you like. I might be puzzled at a few choices but it’s a free country so what I think of other people’s ships is my issue not theirs. Personally in the asoiaf series, I don’t think I have any non canon ships currently (though in the past I did like the Theon/Sansa pairing in a like weird AU - don’t you dare judge me). And this was WAY before season 5 btw so not show induced. In other series I do like some crackships, like in Harry Potter I love the Hermione/Draco crackship especially in movie canon and I blame the incredible chemistry Tom and Emma had because WoW the possibilities. Plus a slytherin and a griffindor together makes all the sense in the world but ok JK 🙄 have it your way 😂

Second, around the time of seasons 1 and 2 when I wanted some fanfiction the majority of pairings I saw were either Dany/Jorah (wtf was wrong with the world 🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮 oh wait this is the same world who ships Rhaenyra with Criscel… yeah makes sense) or Dany/Jon. I also saw a lot of Arya/fAegon. Like vast vast majority.

I don’t remember ever seeing a Jon/Sansa fic and in fact, I remember I was not only shocked at more recently finding out how many people shipped them (good for you if you like them and can see it) but how they actually (trying not to laugh here and failing) tried to justify it with the books?!

Hello?! Excuse me?! Did we read the same sh:t?!!!!

How?! Just… just how?!

Like back to me for a moment, I love Draco/Hermione fics (movie based ok? In the books he was pure trash, Tom made Draco so much more charming and funny), but I am not going to try and justify this with book or movie material (past the actors looking good together). I accept this only exists in an AU. The fact that Jonsas try to justify it it’s just… and the abuse they inflict on ACTUAL people because of a crackship is nothing short of disgusting.

What I would say to them you ask?

Nothing. I don’t know them. I don’t want to know them. They do them and I do me.

What I would say to everyone, however, is, you don’t have a right to go and pester others. You just don’t. Nor to insult someone because you don’t agree with them. Nor to chase them. Stay in your lanes. Like is it so hard so see something you don’t like and just unfollow or block the person? What gives you the right to insult someone to their faces and stalk them to no end?

Fandom is something for us to enjoy. We should focus on what we love not what we hate. We should try to find people who share our views or that we can have healthy debates with. And it is absolutely not ok to bully others.

I think when something is doing us more harm than good it’s when we have to stop. And this is what I advise many Dany antis who spent more time obsessing over her than their faves. But this is my view. I would never go into another person’s blog to tell them this and I appreciate that if I bother any of you, you make good use of the block/unfollow button. Friendly reminder that I do not answer haters or trolls <3 I laugh at them and delete. I come here to have fun not fights, and if I want a fight, I have one face to face. I put my money where my face is and I am not a keyboard warrior.

Now to end this on the positive note of wincest ❤, again, I struggle to understand how anyone who is bothered by incest - even if it’s “only” cousin-cousin, uncle-niece, aunt-nephew - and big age differences and underaged marriages can appreciate the asoiaf series, I just do. Like dude, go watch/read something else, but don’t get outraged at things the author clearly enjoys writing about and does NOT portrait in a negative light. 

Also friendly reminder to any anti-targ fan who is a fan of other houses and that is very bothered by incest that house Stark had two uncle-niece marriages. You’re welcome besties <3

Also, also, Anon let me hug you because I am a major Dany fan that - at the risk of being cancelled - admits they don’t care about Jon all that much. I mean, it’s the Dany show I am here for all the way!

All the best to you Anon! And sorry that I took so long to answer 🤗

[esther-dot]

Ary@ stans stretched out Sansa flaws and her worst moments with ary@ to prove she is evil sister. Yes Sansa is flawed and her relationship with ary@ is strained but it's not one sided. Ary@ do blame Sansa for things which are not in her control. When we point this out ary@ stans think we are diverging the issue which isn't. We wanted to prove that both sister blame each other for their problems but claiming that ary@ was victim and Sansa is oppressor is diverging the issue. I'm fed up of them.

Putting all the blame for the situation on Sansa makes no sense. Pretend Sansa didn’t exist. Would Westeros’s view of femininity and the role of a daughter/wife/mother suddenly change? Are they actually trying to claim that Ned would no longer expect Ary@ to marry who and when he says? Would Cat no longer be obligated to train Ary@ for the life she would lead as dictated by their world? Sansa has nothing to do with any of that, and that, the expectations of their society, is the true problem for Ary@, not Sansa.

I haven't said much critical of Ary@ because I thought the author was very sympathetic to her and didn’t intend for us to find much fault with her. But, I got this ask and realized that I've gotten so used to people holding Sansa responsible for everything that happened in AGOT, I had been influenced by their claims because I was surprised at how Martin very firmly presented Sansa as an innocent. The vilification of Sansa is unrelenting, exhausting, and really does mess with our understanding of the story.

There's a reason Jon and Ary@ are close, they share that feeling of being misfits, so it's silly to act like Sansa is evil for wanting someone she can relate to as well. We all recognize the beauty of Jon and Ary@‘s sibling bond, and yet, the fandom uses her wish as evidence of some moral failure in Sansa.

Sansa's interests allow her to more successfully meet the demands of society, but when reading her chapters, you hear all her anxiety to conduct herself in the right way, indicating that this requires effort from her too. And, even though she does as is expected of her, there’s this blink and you’ll miss it betrothal she endures that shows how life sucked for her too, a forced marriage, molestation, beatings....I mean, it’s almost like it doesn’t matter if a girl does what she is told or not. She will still suffer. I wish Sansa antis thought about that. Sansa not only doesn’t have power over Ary@, she too is wronged by their world.

The Stark girls are not enemies. They’re different, and it’s fine. We aren’t meant to say one is wrong and the other right, they’re simply representing two types of girls/women and how the system is bad for both. And yet, here we are, in a fandom that decided the 11yo is responsible for everyone’s suffering. I understand your frustration, anon. We shouldn’t be forced to counter such arguments over and over again when they never made sense in the first place.

[fedonciadale]

Hello! I get really tired of non-asoiaf fans act like the series is just boobs and dragons and nihilism. I feel like they're wrongly judging the books for the show's flaws (and it seems to always be lotr stans for some reason? Like that series is amazing, why must they trash ours?) So I was wondering, what would you say are the true themes of the books? I don't think at all that Martin is a nihilist who enjoys miserable endings and hates love. Thank you.

Hi there!

As a LotR fan myself I feel called out. haha!

Well, jokes aside. I think that it is of course rubbish to judge a book by how it is done on television/in a movie. It should be obvious that D&D made ASOIAF to be about dragons, boobs and nihilism and that you can't judge the books by the adaptation.

There is one thing though where GRRM is certainly at a disadvantage - especially in regard to Tolkien. He himself said that he wanted to address some of the things he had problems with in LotR, the notorious quote about "Aragorn's tax policy" and therefore, sorry, not sorry, GRRM set the stage himself, the stage where he is compared with Tolkien.

And there is one thing you can say about Tolkien: His books might be shorter than ASOIAF but he finished them and with a satisfying ending as about everyone can agree on. Bittersweet in the best sense of the word.

So, GRRM has himself to blame for being compared to Tolkien. And as long as the books are unfinished, GRRM is going to fall short. It might well be that his ending is bittersweet in a good way, that it will be satisfying, that he will address the problem of resurrection and of everyday politics in a better way than Tolkien did. But he has yet to prove that!

I would actually argue that the whole character of the books is so different that any comparison is moot, but that is my opinion. And I would certainly not put them "against" each other. And in my experience LotR fans do not attack GoT? I mean experiences on tumblr can be very different, but apart from the occasional frustrated ASOIAF fan (and I'm one of them) who praises LotR they are not pitted against each other?

I actually happen to agree with you that GRRM is not a nihilist and you can argue in favour of that. You can quote that he himself said that he wants to write about the "human heart in conflict with itself" and he has already done that and done that very well. But as long as we don't have his ending (not an ending, but his ending) we can make and argument and even a solid argument but the ultimate proof is not to be had.

I think that every one of the main characters has a main important theme: Love and Duty for Jon, Mercy and Revenge for Arya, Selfishness and Altruism for Dany, Use and Abuse of Power for Sansa, Loyalty and Betrayal for Jaime and so on. And the way GRRM approaches that is not nihilistic, there is hope (like when Eddard said: What if we prevail?) but it's not as visible as in LotR. No flower crown on the head of a fallen statue of a king touched by a single ray of sunshine in GRRM's world. That does not make it better or worse. It makes it different.

But it also means that many people do not see it. Many people do not see that Ned's "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword" is a parallel to Gandalf's: "Many who live deserve death and many who die deserves life? Can you give it to them? Then don't be so rash in condemning them to die" (quoting from memory here).

So, there is humanity and hope in ASOIAF: I think that all the people who were saved or spared by the Starks will have a severe impact on the story (not necessarily all of them good, because that would be very unlike GRRM: Good actions don't always have good consequences, but they have good consequences often enough that it makes a difference if people are good!). I think the Stark legacy of good rule will prevail but as for now we don't see that yet.

I mean the last book will be called "A dream of Spring" which should tell you all, but before GRRM does not finish the books, you can argue all you want. The ultimate proof that it is not a nihilistic grimdark novel nobody will want to read in fifty years is just not there. And that's on GRRM.

Sorry, not sorry. JRRT cannot be dethroned by a man who set out to write better and didn't accomplish the most basic thing of all - which is finishing his story, so that it can be judged as a whole. LotR is still one of the most read books in the world and it will continue to be read.

Just being "promising" is not enough to pass the exam.

And that he let D&D finish the story in such a frustrating way does not help his case. I mean it's not necessarily how GoT ended it is mostly how it was told, and season 7 and 8 were a waste of money.

So, I would say: O.k. GRRM I believe in you: I believe that ASOIAF is not just dragons and boobs and grimdark story telling:

Do me a favour and PROVE ME RIGHT!

Thanks for the ask!

[asettledsky]

Why do you think all GoT ships are poison?

Okay, to be clear, when I say this I am thinking in terms of the type of people who actually judge ships and categorize them as good or bad.

I don't do that myself, so excuse me if this doesn't make any actual sense.

From what I understand, people identify as antis because they are anti fictional abusive relationships. Which.... is fine. I think the intent there comes from a good place even if the idea is flawed and there are a lot of toxic radicals who've adopted the term.

So, speaking from that perspective,.... Game of Thrones is entirely irredeemable.

There are no good portrayals of romantic relationships in GoT. There are barely any good people in GoT.

Like, even Sansa gleefully watched Ramsey get eaten alive by his own dogs. In the TV series anyway. After what he put her through I can't exactly blame her, but still. Not exactly saintly. Though I will say that all of her more vicious moments were satisfying to watch, simply because she was finally in a place of power so she could bite back.

I haven't read or watched any of the interviews in a while so my memory might be off, but I'm fairly certain GRRM said that this was intentional. That none of his characters were supposed to be purely good or evil because the world isn't black and white.

I think Ned Stark was supposed to be a stereotypically good knight type character as a red herring. But then he's offed as an example to the reader that this isn't that kind of story.

There are no good characters. And they all have fairly skewed ideas of what love is or is supposed to look like. Most of them are only in relationships at all for the sake of power.

They aren't in healthy relationships, they aren't capable of having them.

I think Jaime and Brienne come the closest, in canon? But I'm sure if you find an anti who dislikes the pairing they'll be able to pick it apart for you. They're good at that.

Though maybe they'll just rant about Jaime banging his sister and therefore being a worthless incestuous scumbag and Brienne/Tormund is infinitely better.

Circling back to your original question. All the ships are poison because they are all toxic. Game of Thrones is filled with abusive people who lord their power over others, and if they aren't that they're naive and idealistic. Or mentally unstable.

Which characters could possibly be in what an anti would consider a good relationship?

Ned and Catelyn maybe? Even then it was an arranged marriage and it only worked so well because she believed in being a dutiful wife and he believed in being honorable. They were in best outcome in a flawed and inherently misogynistic system.

[ladycatofwinterfell]

I interpreted that Catelyn scene as if Jon didn't exist, her family would not have faced tragedy. Yes, she was blaming herself for not loving Jon but she was also indirectly blaming Jon for even existing. I also hated the part where she said her love with Ned was better than a passionate love affair in the words. As if being married off with a bridal price, passed from father to husband like an object is better than genuinely falling in love. I never liked Catelyn and it's not because she has strong opinions or because she started the war or whatever bs people hate her for I just think she's kinda...in her own head?? She lacks perspective tbh like she can't put herself in other people's shoes. Like when she tells Renly and Stannis: just get over it your brothers, I cringed because they obviously do not care about their relationship and only care about being king. They were raised differently than you Cat! I get that she's a victim of the patriarchy and she is coping so I really try to give her the benefit of the doubt but idk maybe I'm not mature enough for that. When characters like Brienne and Sansa exist, it makes Catelyn look bad (that scene in the books when Cat asks Edmure why are all the peasants here is yikes!). That being said, the fact that she has flaws makes her compelling. Also don't get me wrong, I do not think she is an awful person and I DO NOT blame her for ignoring Jon, that's all on Ned. Sometimes I think I dislike her because I kinda see myself in her. I have tried so hard to like her because her haters suck but I just can't.

It’s completely fine, anon, you don’t have to like Cat. As long as you don’t act like an ass about it you can dislike any character you want, I don’t judge you. Sometimes one simply doesn’t vibe with certain characters for different reasons. I don’t necessarily agree with you but I like that you explain your reasons instead of just going “catelyn sucks because she’s mean” as I have seen a lot people do. Also, I genuinely really like this ask as it made me think a lot, so thank you, anon.

The rest will be under the cut because I got carried away with my answer and it got a lot longer than I had initially planned

And now, before I start explaining my view on this, I want to say that I’m no expert at analyzing media or anything else. I’m a fan of the asoiaf books, and I have watched got, that’s it. These are just my views on Cat and the parts that were mentioned in this ask. If anyone disagrees or would like to come with a different perspective, feel free to do so, seeing different views on a topic is good for everyone.

I’m going to assume you mean the motherless child scene, and from that I didn’t get the feeling that she blamed Jon as she not once mentioned him negatively in that scene. He was just a poor innocent child. She repeatedly said that she herself was a terrible person though, which conveys the message that she blamed no one but herself for how the situation turned out and found herself responsible for it. In other scenes we see her acting cold towards Jon, but in this particular scene she doesn’t seem to be angry at him at all, she’s only angry with herself. This in turn makes it seem like she actually is to blame and that she should have loved him, which is wrong. She had no responsibility to take care of her husband’s illegitimate love child. Though in show canon I thought of it as her trying to find a reason for why everything that did happen happened, because she had a hard time making sense of it. She looked back at things she had done that could have been considered wrongdoings and wondered if maybe she could have prevented the deaths of her husband and (as far as she knew) children.

You also mentioned the stone by stone scene. I rewatched it now, and I can sort of see what you mean as she can be interpreted as a bit judgmental in that scene. However, her intention wasn’t to tell Robb about how her love was a supreme love, it was to try to get him to understand that an arranged marriage could turn out good. He had to marry a Frey because that was arranged for him and bad things could happen to him and his cause if he didn’t, so she tried to make him believe in that a marriage to a Frey girl he didn’t know could be a good marriage. This by explaining that her arranged marriage was good. Fine, she didn’t immediately fall in love with her husband, but she slowly came to love him over the years and that could be the cause in Robb’s marriage as well.

What we also need to remember in regards to that scene is that that’s the way marriage works in Westeros. If you’re highborn you don’t marry for love, you have a marriage arranged for you for the sake of forming an alliance between two families. That’s not better than genuinely falling in love, but that’s the way it works. In this case it’s even more important since Frey is so prickly and might pull the rug from under Robb’s feet if he feels insulted. And Cat wants her son to see that, wants him to understand that it is dangerous to break a that important alliance. She tries to get him on a safer path than the one he’s going down. But she also wants him to know that he can be happy in an arranged marriage. She tells him about her and Ned to explain that it is possible for him to learn to love his bride, so that he might reconsider his choice.

Now to a quick one. I agree, Cat didn’t start the war. She took Tyrion hostage because based on the info she had he had tried to murder her son. Tywin “war criminal” Lannister started the war by sending men to pillage and destroy the Riverlands

On the next one I’m actually inclined to agree. Catelyn is a bit in her own head. On top of that she’s very stubborn, which makes it more apparent. She tends not to see things from other perspectives than her own, that is definitely one of her flaws. It doesn’t make her a bad person, but it is a flaw, and I can see why some people would have a hard time with that particular flaw. Though she’s not always in her own head, several times we are shown that she has a nose for politics and is actually quite good at understanding other people and their wants. She has perspective on several situations, and can change her mind if things changes or doesn’t turn out as planned.

When it comes to the conflict between Renly and Stannis I really get her frustration. Yes, she had trouble understanding their conflict and found it ridiculous as she was raised and lived by the words “Family, Duty, Honor” and the mindset that family always comes first no matter what. But at that point I think most people would share her thoughts, as she was in a situation where she had started to become desperate. She wanted them to stop fighting each other and understand that they needed to fight together against the Lannisters, who were everyone’s common enemy. This with good reason, they killed her husband and as far as she knew still had both her daughters. Of course she wanted them to stop their feud and unite for the cause of defeating the Lannisters.

I’m going to agree on the next one as well. Cat lives in a patriarchal, classist society and buys into that because that’s all she knows, no one can deny that she has a classist and patriarchal mindset. That’s what she was raised by, that was what she was taught. Cat is in many senses the perfect lady by Westerosi standards. But despite believing in the patriarchal society she’s also at times thoroughly frustrated by it, as we see when she starts losing her influence as an advisor after Ned dies. It’s an interesting internal conflict, and as you said, she’s coping. You mentioned Brienne and Sansa as examples of characters that make Cat look bad in this sense. I don’t agree with that, I think these three characters cope with the patriarchal society in different ways although Brienne has a much more sympathetic way to do so in the eyes of modern readers. Cat definitely isn’t innocent of having spread those views, as she tries to make sure her children live by them, but she’s also not the devil here.

But yes, although she doesn’t call them peasants, that scene doesn’t look great. I won’t deny that either, because it’s true. All the highborn characters, yes even your fave no matter who that is, are classist. And that’s not me trying to defend Cat, that’s just the truth.

As for your ending, yes, her flaws makes her a very compelling character. It’s what makes her interesting, perfect characters are painstakingly boring. She’s not an awful person, and she’s not to blame for the situation with Jon. That one’s definitely on Ned.

You’re also right in that her haters very often suck.

Thanks for your ask, this was very interesting and I hope to see you in my inbox again in the future!

[fortunatelylori]

Hi! I apologise in advance if this question comes off as antagonistic, because I'm worried that it will, but please know that I'm genuinely curious. I've been reading some comments by you and @nothinghappensinalstonville and noticed you're both very critical of Sansa during her arguments with Jon, and seem to think he was absolutely right and she was absolutely wrong. (part 1 of 2)

My question is, can you elaborate on why – if you believe she undermines him and her advice to him is always wrong – you think she’s a good match for him, why you think they’d be a good team, why she’d be a good queen to his king? I’m sorry, my question sounds petulant even to my own ears, but I don’t mean it that way, I promise! I truly would like to hear your thoughts on why she’s good for Jon when you seem to think she’s been so wrong in all their interactions. (part 2 of 2)

Dear nonnie,

…..

I’m trying very hard to contain my frustration right now because you seem like a very nice person. However, I spend a lot of time and energy writing my posts and comments. I try, to the best of my abilities, to be fair and as objective as I possibly can and explain my point of view in detail. That takes quite a bit of thought and effort on my part so to know that, in your case at least, all of that was an utter and complete waste of time is a deeply disheartening feeling. 

To make it clear, I have no issues with people disagreeing with me or having different interpretations. Nor do I have issues with people sending me asks where they challenge my views. What I do take issue with is when my opinions are misrepresented or I’m accused of saying things I didn’t say. 

If you’re genuinely curious to find out my opinion, you could have checked out my blog before sending me this ask. I have a meta page all set up for anyone to go through and see what my opinions are. 

There is a tendency in the GOT fandom to believe that stanning a character should mean that you believe that character is above reproach, is never wrong and anyone who might disagree is not a “true fan”. By and large, the Jonsa fandom is more open to debate on the nature of characters than other groups but even in our little corner, there is a tendency to try to protect the character of Sansa from any and all criticism, mostly in relation to Jon. 

I understand the impulse to a degree. Sansa has been my favorite female character since season 1. I’ve gone on the bat defending her time and time again and I understand people being protective of her because Sansa is very much a maligned character in the rest of the fandom.

However, the way I stan characters doesn’t conform to this approach. To give you a clear example, my favorite literary character of all times is Scarlett O’Hara. That’s not because I believe she is perfect and beyond reproach but rather because of the complexities of her character that include both positive and negative traits. My liking of Sansa Stark is the same.I like characters, flaws and all and I have no problem discussing those flaws and I don’t think I should stop doing it just because fans in general are unfairly criticizing Sansa. That is not a valid argument to me. I would find it completely disingenuous and hypocritical on my part if I spent my time criticizing every other character, which I do, but stopped myself from doing it with Sansa because my opinion does not conform to the general consensus of the Jonsa/Sansa fandom or because she’s already unfairly criticized in other places. 

So, let’s get this over with: 

seem to think he was absolutely right and she was absolutely wrong

you seem to think she’s been so wrong in all their interactions.

I never said that. In this post I said the following: 

My problem with the way this whole thing is presented in the fandom is that it’s taken as a very black and white issue and people feel compelled to either defend Jon or defend Sansa.

The discourse is either:

“OMG! Look! Sansa is undermining Jon! Dark Sansa is coming, people! Alert the presses! This episode … this season … in 2035. It’s coming!“

Or

“Sansa is right. Jon is stupid. He makes decisions with his heart, instead of his head.“

Except that things are never as simple as that and it’s this type of decision that could cost you in the larger scheme of the game of thrones. Deciding whether to pardon the child of a bannerman that betrayed you could go many different ways.

And also: 

So to say that Sansa was right in this situation and Jon was wrong is oversimplifying things. It’s those kinds of decisions that a medieval king/lord is always struggling with and there is no 100% guarantee that you will make the right choice. Jon and Sansa are very young and they have a huge responsibility on their shoulders. There’s a lot you need to learn in order to be a successful ruler, and that goes for Sansa as well as Jon.

In my addendum to that post, I also said: 

I have also talked in the past, on several occasions, about Jon being a poor communicator, acting like a lone operator and blindsiding Sansa with his decisions despite them needing to act like a united front.

In a post I wrote just yesterday, I said this: 

Since season 6, Sansa has been frustrated that Jon doesn’t listen to her:

1. When she argued that he shouldn’t take Winterfell until they had enough men.

2. Before the battle of the bastards, when she warned him about Ramsay and felt that he wasn’t taking her opinion into account

3. In season 7, when she argued against his decision regarding Alys and Ned.

4. In season 7, when she felt he was paying too much attention to the NK and not enough attention to Cersei.

5. Still in season 7, when she told him not to go to Dragonstone and he blindsided her by announcing to everyone that he was, in fact, going.

So this: “this is the way he is, the way he’s always been. he never listens to me” business is a standing issue between them since the start of their relationship in season 6.

I didn’t find it strange that she would say that. She was angry and venting and she’s frustrated with Jon always doing things without talking to her or taking her opinion into account.

if you believe she undermines him 

Except I don’t believe she’s undermining him which is why I wrote an entire meta attacking the “undermining” argument that you can find here. 

In case you don’t want to bother reading all of it, here are a few excerpts: 

Now people have pointed out that, as one of his vassals, Sansa has every right to question him publicly. The problem is that’s not how Jon sees her. He very distinctly separates Sansa from the rest of his court. And since we already had the “we need to trust each other” scene at the end of season 6, I think it’s safe to assume that he sees the two of them as a unit that is supposed to be on the same page so the fact that Sansa speaks out against him in public, instead of privately, feels like a betrayal.

However, if there’s one thing you learn sooner or later, is that there are two sides to every story. That’s why it’s never a good idea to side with one party whenever couples fight.

Because if we look at things from Sansa’s perspective, you can see how she might feel dismissed. The fact of the matter is Jon isn’t the world’s greatest communicator and failed to talk his decision over with Sansa before announcing it to the Council, which in turn makes Sansa feel sidelined, hence her aggressive snark and Joffrey digs.

And that’s because the audience support is very much skewed  in  Jon’s favor. Being on tumblr, sometimes you forget that the Jonsa fam is very much the minority and that exclusive Sansa fans are the unicorns of this fandom (#love4unicorns). The vast majority of this audience will not look at Jon as an unreliable narrator, as every character in this show is, but as the ultimate authority on how this scene should be viewed.

If he says he feels undermined, then it must be because he’s being undermined, which by extension means that Sansa will betray him.

I simply believe that just like Jon, Sansa makes mistakes not only in their conversations but in her approach to certain issues, like the Alys/Ned incident. Jon and Sansa’s arguments, in my opinion, are not clear cut or black and white. There are points to be made on both sides of the debate and pretending like Sansa is completely correct and Jon is wrong is oversimplifying things, as is the reverse. I’ve already talked ad nauseam about the Alys/Ned situation. So here are a 2 other examples: 

Sansa warning Jon that they don’t have enough men  prior to the battle of the bastards: 

She is correct in that they don’t have enough men. That doesn’t change the fact that they’re stuck in the middle of freezing, wintry terrain, a fact that is brought into the plot by Davos who says Stannis lost the war primarily because of the weather, which is in fact correct. In addition to that, by that point they’ve already tried to gather up more men and were denied at almost every turn. It’s not that Jon can’t count, it’s that he doesn’t see any possibility of getting more men and is afraid that he’s going to lose the men he has if he waits. That is a valid argument. 

The reason why Sansa is so resistant is because she knows there’s the possibility of getting more men but dreads having to resort to calling the Knights of the Vale because Littlefinger comes attached to that particular deal. Jon can’t really be blamed for that since he doesn’t know. 

Sansa warning Jon that Ramsay will try to trick him: 

She is correct in her assessment of Ramsay. However her: “Don’t do what he wants you to do” isn’t going to help Jon much, is it? What does that mean? How do you build a strategy around that? She doesn’t know either. Saying that Jon should have listened to Sansa in this instance is … I mean, listen to her about what? He can do absolutely nothing with the info that Sansa provides. 

Her being angry that Jon doesn’t specifically ask for her opinion in a meeting where she is present is also, quite frankly, debatable. Could he have asked? Yes. Could she have just said what she thought instead of taking her frustration out on him in private? Also yes. 

That’s about it … These are the instances where I kind of lean  towards Jon’s point of view more than Sansa’s but also acknowledge the fact that she has reasons to say the things she says, thus making it a more complex situation than one of them being wrong and the other right. 

For those 3 instances, I am now stuck writing another extremely long post trying to defend what are not, as far as I can see, opinions that should garner this amount of controversy. 

But since now I must also atone for those opinions by proving just how much I love Sansa, here is the list of reasons why I believe they’re a good match and she’ll make a good queen to Jon’s king: 

1. She is more politically minded than he is. Their debate on trusting Tyrion is proof enough of that. She also has experience in dealing with an extremely treacherous court in King’s Landing and that will prove very useful in managing their future court. An experience Jon completely lacks. 

2. He has a tendency to be impulsive whereas she is more controlled and strategic. They balance each other out. Jon is a big picture thinker which is fine but that can cause him to miss details that might turn into huge conflicts later on whereas Sansa is much more aware of the subtleties of situations and can identify potential risks. 

3. Jon has a hero complex and a self-sacrificing streak, where he wants to save and protect everyone. Sansa is more willing to accept the possibility that you can’t always do that. But Jon will continue to try to protect people so he needs someone to protect him, sometimes even from himself which is what Sansa can do for him. 

4. In my post regarding the alliances that Sansa and Jon can make, I called Sansa the most eligible match in Westeros. The amount of allies and strategic power she can bring to the table is undeniable and will be among the main reasons why they end up king and queen.

5. They’re both humanists. Despite Sansa’s more calculated temperament (something she learned, btw because naturally she’s not a calculated person),  she would have given a mob of people that attacked her and almost raped her bread if she had had it, she takes charge of calming the spirits of the women during the Battle of the Blackwater and as Jon’s regent, she supervises the food storing and preparations for winter. They both have the same view of what leadership is and the kind of leaders they want to be. They both very much see leadership as a duty and want to do right by the people that they govern.

6. On a personal level, they’re both romantics who dream about a quiet, domestic life. They want to have children and raise a family. So their personal goals and temperaments are aligned. 

7. Jon is insecure, particularly when it comes to how other people view him and since the moment they have been reunited, not only has Sansa understood that but given him the validation he needs to feel secure, content and happy. In turn, Jon can be the brave, gentle and strong man that Ned promised Sansa and that she’s always dreamed about. 

8. They fight a lot, they both make good and bad point along the way but at the end of the day, their fights are constructive and lead to both of them growing and developing as people. They push each other to be better. 

There are probably many more reasons that can be added but this is all I can come up with at this time. 

One more thing I’d like to add before I finish this:

I was under the, perhaps mistaken, impression that people sending me asks or reading my blog were interested in my honest opinion on topics and not just in answers and posts that validate their pre-existing views. If that is the case, I don’t think my blog is for you. I will never shy away from expressing my thoughts on a subject, even when that might be controversial. So if that bothers you, I understand. Please unfollow me, block me or otherwise scroll past me if you feel leaving a comment disagreeing is not enough. I don’t want to make anyone’s fandom experience anything less than a happy one, if I can help it. 

So, in an effort, to keep the Jonsa fandom experience a positive one for myself, I’d like to let everyone know that this will be my final answer on this subject. If you’re ever tempted to send me an ask telling me that I don’t think Sansa is entitled to voice her opinions, that I think Sansa is undermining Jon, that I’m trying to steal her agency in order to prop up Jon or that I think Sansa is always wrong and Jon is always right, please know that I will delete those asks and not answer them. I really don’t like doing that because I love talking to you guys and I really appreciate your interest in my blog and my opinions but at this point, if you still believe all of those things, there’s literally nothing I can say that will change your mind. Thank you for understanding!

Have a nice day, nonnie!

[heartbreakerholland]

lunchtime losers [p.p.]

Summary: Peter Parker was one of your best friends in high school, but there were moments that made you question who exactly he could be to you. Here are a few of those moments you spent in Midtown, trying to figure things out year by year.

Word count: 6.8k

Warnings: mentions of underaged drug use, mild swearing, open ended. . . ending(?), unedited

Disclaimer: i cannot stress enough that you shouldn't do drugs/alcohol while underaged. i know high school is weird and everybody might seem to be experimenting with new things, but i promise there'll be a time and place where it's appropriate to do so. i am in no way glamorizing/romanticizing (underaged) drug use, even if it's such a small portion of this fic. drug/alcohol abuse is very serious, even as a teenager when it doesn't seem like you're abusing it.

A/N: i have some pointers! this is a different writing style compared to what i've posted before. i've written like this back when i first started writing fanfiction years ago and quite frankly, i don't even like it that much, so i'm very iffy about this. this is based off of my own experience with getting to know my feelings about a good friend, and a lot of the scenes in here are closely accurate to what's actually happened in my life. the only part that i can say is 100% pure imagination is the ending, which i know will probably make a lot of you frustrated ☺️ (it's because i still haven't told this person my feelings for him oops) ANYWAYS this is written in a very one sided perspective, but i tried to write in a way that you can read between the lines and get a little idea of what peter’s feelings are too. a lot of peter’s and the reader’s feelings are told merely through action and dialogue and less of actual explaining, but i hope you enjoy it nonetheless 💞

feedback is greatly appreciated and feel free to request a part 2! enjoy reading!

[masterlist] [join a tag list]

•••

Freshman Year

"This has been going on for weeks," Michelle muttered to you. "If the tension at the table gets any worse, then I'm not sitting with you guys anymore."

You stepped out of the lunch line with your tray in hand, following MJ to stand away from the crowd of students. Looking behind her, you watched Peter and Ned enter the lunch room and sit down at your usual table.

You rolled your eyes. "I already told you. Maybe Peter likes me and maybe I like him back, but he's always been one of my closest friends. I don't want to ruin that."

She scoffed and began walking towards the table with you at her side. "So? You can date and still be friends—"

"But what about when we break up? We either stay friends or never talk to each other again. I'm not risking it."

You knew she would have said more, but the two of you already made it to your table. You took place in your usual seats, Michelle next to Ned and you across from them, next to Peter. You set your backpack on the ground underneath the bench where everyone sat. Without thinking about it, you handed Peter your chocolate milk carton and apple sauce, while he slid over his fruit snacks that May always packed for him. It was a routine; you always got those because you didn't like eating it but you knew Peter did, and Peter never told May that he doesn't like fruit snacks because you loved eating them.

MJ narrowed her gaze at you during the interaction, but you chose to ignore her. It was nothing more than a routine.

"Y/N, Michelle," Ned said. "Please tell Peter that he's being stupid.”

Without missing a beat, you and MJ repeated Ned's words at the same time.

Peter glanced between the two of you with mock surprise. "You didn't even know what we were talking about!"

MJ shrugged, taking a bite out of her food. "Don't have to. You're always stupid, Parker."

He put a hand over his chest. "I'm hurt, guys. I really am."

You chuckled but said nothing more, allowing your three friends to carry the conversation while your mind wandered.

You tried your best to pinpoint the moment you began liking Peter as more than a friend, but your heart wasn't into it.

All you could really tell was when you became more conscious of how close you always sat with him, thighs glued to the side and elbows never coming apart. You blamed it on the lunch table crowded with other students on either side of your friend group, giving you absolutely no space for Jesus in between.

You would catch yourself staring, taking note of his mannerisms and how his light brown hair always seemed to bounce whenever his head moved. You decided you noticed those things because of how long you've been friends with him.

You realized you always watched for his reaction first before seeing the others' after you said something funny, but you told yourself it was only because you valued his opinion the most.

You tried taking note of his flaws in hopes that it would get rid of whatever those feelings were. His hands were always clammy, his backpack was so big that you weren't sure how he didn't topple over when it was on his back, and sometimes he'd spit a little when he talked a lot. (For some reason, those things didn't push you away like you wanted.)

You felt a kick from under the table, bringing you back to the cafeteria. You looked up to be met with Michelle's glare, who signaled you to check your phone. Reaching into your pocket, you took your phone out and looked at the screen under the table.

Michael Jackson: if u keep staring at peter then he might actually notice for once

You gave MJ a look, who was the one who sent the text, and put your phone away. You didn't realize you'd been mindlessly eating until you felt full. You slid your food to Peter, who began eating the rest of it without second thought. (He always ate his lunch first then whatever you couldn't finish as well.) Routine.

Before you could actively participate in the conversation, the bell rang, signaling the end of lunch.

The four of you rose from the long table, gathering your trash to throw it away. You slouched over to grab your bag from where you put it.

"Here ya go," Peter said from behind.

You turned around to see him holding up your backpack for you.

"Oh, thanks," you smiled, swinging the backpack over your shoulders.

He returned the smile. "You going to your locker?"

"Like always, Pete."

"Alright," he slowly backed away. "See you in five?"

You nodded and began walking the other direction, where your locker was. Michelle followed Peter to the band room while Ned decided to accompany you on your short walk.

"Soooo, Y/N," he said suggestively. "That dance is coming up."

You groaned. "I thought the four of us were just going to sleep over at MJ's that night?"

You stopped in front of your locker, opening it to grab a textbook for one of your classes later in the day. You grabbed one of Peter's hoodies that he left in there, knowing it would be cold in the band room. (You had a locker in one side of the school while Peter had his own in the other side. You both agreed to share both, merely for convenience and nothing more.) Ned leaned on the locker next to yours, facing you.

He fiddled with his backpack straps. "You know how the school's making it a 'girls ask guys' kind of thing? Well, Michelle was thinking that maybe we should go! Like, she'll ask me and you can ask Peter—"

You raised a pointed finger at your friend. "I see what you're doing now," you accused him. You shut the locker and began walking towards the band room with Ned beside you. "I don't condone meddling, Leeds."

"But Y/N!" he said excitedly. "MJ and I know that you two like each other. You know that Peter likes you. He knows that you like him. You know that he knows that you like him. He knows that you know that he likes you. It's a win-win!"

You sighed. "You're making it sound more complicated than it actually is."

The two of you made it to the band room and Ned opened the door for both of you to walk in. You both headed to retrieve your instruments, with other students swarming by.

"You're making it actually complicated! Look, Y/N. I'm not supposed to tell you this, but," he lowered his voice, "if you don't ask Peter to the dance, then he's gonna ask you."

You froze, holding your instrument case in the air. "What?" You regained yourself and set the case down, facing Ned. "No, Ned. No. Listen. I'll tell you what I told Michelle, okay? I just want to be Peter's friend—"

"But you like him!"

"But I don't want to do anything about it. It's just a crush—it'll pass. I treasure our friendship more than having a crush that won't last forever."

Ned raised and dropped his arms exasperatedly, giving up.

Michelle popped up, seeming chipper than usual. "Hey guys, we're practicing for contest today," she said. "What're you talking about?"

"It's not gonna happen, MJ," Ned sighed. He grabbed his instrument and trudged away, leaving you two alone since the rest of the students seem to have gone in their respective practice rooms already.

Michelle put her hands on her hips and stared at you, her attitude changing back to normal. "Why not, Y/N? Are you scared or something?"

You sighed. You turned around and headed the same direction Ned went, with MJ following closely behind. "No, I'm not scared. Can you guys please stop meddling? I just don't want anything to happen, and that's it."

The two of you stopped in front of your designated practice room, the door closed. You peeked through the small window in the door, seeing the boys were already in there, oblivious to you and MJ on the other side.

"Why not?" Michelle asked. "You'll regret not ever knowing what could have been—"

"No, that's the thing," you interjected. You were tired of hearing these talks about Peter, and it was beginning to show. "I know that I won't regret it. I can daydream about 'could-have-beens' with Peter all my life, and I'll be fine with that. I don't want to lose him, and if that means that I can't be with him romantically, then that's what I'm gonna do. Having a crush is always temporary, Michelle. Peter's the kind of person that I want permanently in my life. Do you know what I mean now?"

She stared at you with a hint of sadness in her eyes, like she could see right through your words. See what, you weren't sure. After a skeptical moment, she took a breath, surrendering. "Alright, fine. I'll let him know that."

You took a breath of relief. "Thank you."

Michelle turned to open the door to the practice room, Ned and Peter welcoming the two of you in.

-

The practice room was small with the four of you and your instruments in it, meaning you'd be in close quarters with them—Peter specifically.

It was easy to pretend your feelings for Peter weren't there. It was easy to act like yourself despite the elephant in the room. Before the complications, you and Peter were glued together, so why treat him differently now?

Maybe you noticed him noticing you, watching your moves when you pretended you couldn't see where his line of sight was directed. Maybe you took note of him flinching back whenever you accidentally brushed against him, and how the sweat from his palms were more prominent on his instrument.

But it was easier to ignore those things, which is what made it easier for you to act like it never happened in the first place.

Sophomore Year

You weren't usually one to gloat, but damn it you were right about the situation with Peter and you told yourself that you should be happy about it.

Crushes were always temporary. Friendship could last forever.

Could.

Michelle and Ned eventually stopped bringing it up freshman year, and you figured Peter eventually stopped liking you as well.

The whole ordeal wasn't something any of you talked about, an unsaid truth never to be spoken. You refused to even think about those weird few months and how you felt during that time. You told yourself that having a mutual crush on your best friend wasn't something to think about.

You were just glad that you weren't the center of Peter's attention anymore. You knew this was true, mainly because his attention drifted to Liz Allen. The intelligent, breathtaking, lucky girl: Liz Allen.

Besides Peter's obvious crush on her, nothing changed.

"If you three weren't my only friends at this school," MJ said, "I'd stop eating lunch with you guys."

You followed her out of the lunch line after paying, just like the normal routine since last year. The two of you began walking across the cafeteria and towards the same table you've always sat at, with Ned and Peter already there. (The only difference nowadays was Peter sat next to Ned, and you and MJ sat across from them, so Peter could helplessly drool over Liz across the lunch room.)

You chuckled. "Me too, I think. . . It's because of Peter, huh?"

She groaned. "Duh. All he does is gush about her."

You laughed as you sat down next to Michelle, having finally made it to the table. Before even being able to look at your food, Peter began talking.

"She straightened her hair today, guys! She looks so different but still. . . so good."

Ned followed where Peter's eyes were, seeing it was true. Michelle faked a gag, which only you noticed.

The two of you ate your food in silence, which was something different compared to before Liz came in the picture. Peter also stopped bringing you fruit snacks and eating the food that you couldn't finish, as well as denying to take chocolate milk and apple sauce from you.

Sometimes you'd catch yourself missing those little things, but you told yourself it was only because of the change in what used to be normal. Before, normal was getting squished next to Peter and enjoying it, oddly realizing the days he switched between his cologne, and endless banter between the four of you. Now, normal was having to think of what to say to strike a conversation with him, rolling your eyes at his comments on Liz, and being vaguely aware of the few times he looked your way.

You would find yourself hurting, and you'd have to correct your thoughts and say it was only missing the past. There was no use in feeling sorry for yourself, though. Things happen, feelings change, and that was that. You were still friends with Peter in one way or another, and that's what you wanted, so clearly you had to be happy about things going your way.

"You guys are losers," Michelle told the boys, who were still fawning over the senior girl in the cafeteria.

Peter didn't seem to hear her, (he didn't seem to hear anything you and MJ said, nowadays), but Ned shrugged. "You're still friends with us," he replied.

That was true. You were still friends and that's what mattered. It was weird having to remind yourself of that fact, but it was still that: a fact.

"Hey, Y/N?" Peter spoke out of nowhere.

His voice fazed you. It was odd hearing him say your name now, especially after realizing he used to say it almost as often as he breathed.

"You know about girls, right?"

You and Michelle shared a glance, knowing where this was headed.

"I mean, I am a girl, so yeah," you said. You looked at him, but his eyes never seemed to have left the special girl seated somewhere behind you. You paid no mind to it, your eyes going over how his head was dreamily rested on his hand.

"Okay, so," he began. "Hypothetically speaking. . . If you're a senior, would you date a guy that's a sophomore?"

You rolled your eyes, but decided to mess with Peter. "Well, what's the guy like?"

Michelle snorted.

"He's, uhm. . . He's pretty smart. Really nice, I think—"

"He's a cutie!" Ned chimed in.

You shrugged. "Well, if that's all he has going for him. . ."

"No!" Peter retaliated. "He's really cool, and uh, thinks you're pretty! Yeah, you're pretty."

You felt your face heat up and you were glad that none of your friends were looking at you for once.

-

You were warned that the people you walk into high school with would never be the people you'd walk out of high school with. People grew apart and that was life, apparently. You didn't think those warnings would actually apply to you, though. You thought the four of you were too strong together to separate.

By the time sophomore year was halfway done, you were proved dearly wrong.

You thought Liz would be the only strain on your friendship with Peter, but his behavior drastically changed out of nowhere then suddenly he got an internship with Stark Enterprises. Peter was one of the smartest people you ever met, so you weren't surprised. If anything, the real surprise was he not only quit the only class he had with you—which was music—but he stopped even trying to talk to you.

You and Michelle decided to stop sitting with Peter and Ned during lunch.

"There he goes again," Michelle pointed.

You followed her gaze and saw that Peter was fawning over Liz again, which was weird considering he rarely showed up during lunch anymore.

It hurt. You knew that now. Missing Peter wasn't something you'd expect to feel, but lately? It's all you've felt.

You didn't have to miss MJ or Ned, because you still saw them and talked to them regularly. It was only Peter. Always Peter freaking Parker.

Maybe you took him for granted. You'd never thought that there'd come a day that you'd stop sharing food, sharing classes, sharing a conversation.

"No point in regretting it," you said aloud.

It was more for yourself than to Michelle. You made your decision on who Peter was to you, so it would only be a waste of time in wondering who he could have been.

Junior Year

Something changed sophomore year. Ned told you that Peter ditched the academic decathlon which resulted in him getting detention. That was something you never expected to hear, considering Peter was the perfect example of Midtown High's star student.

The beginning of junior year, you saw him in music. He stayed this time.

He seemed to be taking advantage of "conveniently" getting the same class like before. He made a point to talk to you again—during class and lunch—and it was like he never ditched you and MJ.

"Oh my God," you rolled your eyes. You aggressively turned your body to face Peter who sat beside you. "You just want to win! You're not even right!"

He looked at Ned and MJ sat in front of you two for help, but they only stared back with clear amusement. (The four of you assumed your usual seats from freshman year, so you would always get squished against Peter's side at lunch again.)

"It doesn't matter if I'm right!" he exclaimed with big hand gestures. "A debate is a debate! You could be right—I'm not saying you are—but I'm just better at debating than you."

Ned did a terrible job at hiding his laughter from the argument you were having with Peter.

This was something that you were happy you had the chance of getting used to again—not that you'd ever tell Peter that. As soon as the school year began and all of you sat together, not so playful yelling was all that accompanied the lunch table.

The dorky boy loved proving himself right, and you loved proving people wrong. As soon as the second week of sharing lunch in the cafeteria passed by, it would have been weird not to bicker with him like before.

Michelle slammed her book closed, startling the three of you to silence. "Look," she said, giving you and Peter a death glare. "Y/N, Peter has some good points—all only technical, but still good."

Peter thanked her and you huffed, upset MJ wasn't on your side.

"Shut up, Peter," she said. "Peter, Y/N's still right, and you're just gross."

"Ha!" you yelled, then rose from the table's bench and reached over to high-five Ned. (You were sure he'd side with either of you, but it was the thought that counts.)

Peter scoffed. "It's not that gross," he said, refusing to take Michelle's answer. "If you were on a deserted island with a bag of frozen chicken nuggets and no microwave, it would still be safe to eat them—"

"The directions say to microwave them for a reason, Peter!" you interrupted.

"It's already cooked!" he brought up, which was something he pointed out earlier in the conversation. "It's cooked before it's frozen, then you can just warm it up in the microwave—but that doesn't mean you have to—"

"Y'know what, fine," you said, slamming your hands down on top of the lunch table. "You can eat frozen chicken nuggets all you want, Peter. But I am going to warm mine up in the microwave like everybody else. And if you get some weird disease, don't come crying to me because I was right—"

"I won't come crying back to you! Because I'm still right!"

The bell rang, signaling the end of your lunch before you could put another word in. The four of you immediately rose, with MJ and Ned heading straight to the band room.

You reached down for your backpack, only not to find it where you left it. Turning around, Peter held it in the air for you to shrug on. Just like before.

The two of you silently walked side by side to your locker so you could switch out textbooks and get one of Peter's sweaters that he always "forgot" in there.

"How's that one guy doing?" Peter asked, one hand in his jean pocket with the other gripping his backpack strap.

You shrugged, opening your locker. He leaned against the locker next to yours, staring you down with his usual grin.

You'd be damned if you didn't say puberty was doing Parker well. You wouldn't have noticed it if he hadn't ditched you last school year, but he definitely got. . . toned, to say the least. He also learned how to use hair gel and walked around school with clothes that seemed to make him more confident.

You cleared the thoughts away. Those things were only noticeable because you were friends with him. Obviously.

"You mean Carlos?" you replied. You reached into the locker and sorted out what you needed to.

Peter nodded then grabbed the textbooks you had in your arms. You shut the locker and the two of you began your walk to the band room.

"I'm pretty sure he was flirting with me, which was nice," you told your friend. "But he stopped talking to me out of nowhere and hasn't even opened my messages since."

He scrunched his eyebrows. "Here, lemme see the messages."

Before you could reach in your back pocket for your phone, Peter beat you to it with his free hand. He unlocked it and went to the messages. While reading it, he chuckled.

"Seriously, Y/N?" he said, amused. "That's why he stopped replying! You called him 'dude!'"

You gave him a shocked look. "So what? I call everyone dude."

Making it to the band room, you opened the door and followed Peter in. He spoke while the two of you set down your belongings. "You friend-zoned him."

You scoffed. "I did not!"

He gave you a look. "Y/N. I've been friend-zoned enough times to know when somebody else is getting friend-zoned."

You rolled your eyes and turned around to get yours and Peter's instruments, but something felt off about what he said. You didn't really care about talking to Carlos, but what Peter said felt like it was partially directed to you. You didn't blame him, because you technically did friend-zone him. . . but that was two years ago! Clearly he let it go by now, because you definitely did.

Senior Year

You and Michelle stumbled inside her home, waving a goodbye to Peter—who dropped you two off—before shutting the front door.

"Dude," you turned to her. She looked at you with glazed eyes, but was still able to keep her focus. You continued, "I am so gone."

Both of you giggled, leaning on each other to take off your shoes and put aside your bags. MJ led you to a couch, retrieved water from the kitchen, then sat next to you. She chugged the water down with a hand clearly steadier than yours. "What do you mean?" she asked. Her eyes were bloodshot and droopy, but she looked put together for the most part.

You shrugged lazily, taking a sip of your water. "You've seen me smoke," you said to her. "I've been. . . chill, buzzed, whatever. But right now? I am high." Laughter interrupted whatever you could have said next, though you weren't sure if you had anything to say.

She laughed with you, still clearly having a good time despite being more sober. "Really?"

"Yeah," you nodded. "Like," you looked around the room, searching for the right set of words. "I haven't been this high in a while. . . Like, you've never seen me this gone."

"Ooh," she rubbed her hands together comically. "I'm excited."

You rubbed your eye, forgetting the makeup you had on. "Why?"

"Because!" she chirped up. "You know what they say? Drunk words are sober thoughts. Well, high words too, maybe."

You shook your head with a smile before drinking more water. You didn't mind letting loose with Michelle; you trusted her, which was why you smoked as much as you did in the first place. You were comfortable enough to allow her to see this side of you, even if there was the chance you might not remember any of it in the morning.

You helped each other up the stairs, having decided you should at least take off your makeup and change your clothes. (Thank God her parents weren't coming home that night.) By the time you both finished, you were seated comfortably on the couch once again, this time underneath one large blanket and with the television playing late night cartoons in front of you. A single lamp as well as the TV were your only light sources, which kept the living room in a dim glow.

"Can I be honest?" you spoke over the cartoons, startling Michelle. Neither of you were sobering up at all, but that fact didn't stop anything.

She nodded and turned off the TV. MJ turned to completely face you, giving you her attention. "Yeah," she said. "What's up?"

You began rambling without hesitation. "You know how Peter was at the game? Well, of course he was. He had to be because the band was playing for the football team and he's in band. . . But anyways, I didn't talk to him at all—he always seemed busy with somebody else—but I couldn't stop. . . I don't know. I caught myself looking for him a lot, like, to see if he moved around the bleachers or something."

Michelle nodded, allowing you to continue.

"Okay, well. . . I don't know, dude," you continued. "You remember how we had crushes on each other freshman year? Well—I don't think I have a crush on him, I swear—but I feel something. . . It's weird. He's one of my best friends but I know there's something stronger there."

She looked around the room thoughtfully, searching for a reply. "What do you feel?"

It was hard to think clearly and how to explain yourself; the only word that stayed in your head the entire time was his name. Peter, Peter, Peter.

You began rambling. As soon as the words left your mouth, you instantly forgot what they were, but that didn't stop you from talking. "Michelle, it's so weird. I've never really told you this but, remember when he had a crush on Liz? And when he ditched us for a while after that? I—I think I missed him. And not just as a friend. You know what, I don't know."

Peter, Peter, Peter.

You shook your hands in the air as if you could shoo your thoughts away.

You continued. "I care about him as a friend and stuff, but I don't think how I've felt about him is how I feel about other people, like you or Ned. It's different. Like, I don't want to lose him. I don't want him out of my life."

Peter, Peter, Peter.

You sighed. "When he was gone for the whole Stark Internship thing, it felt like I really lost someone. I mean, I don't have to talk to you or Ned for days—weeks, even—and I'll be fine. But when the same thing happened with Peter? I would feel so. . . lost."

Michelle nodded, staying attentive the entire time. There was a part of you that knew she wasn't high enough to forget any of this, though you were sure you wouldn't remember much.

"What do you want me to say?" she asked.

You shrugged, looking down at your hands. Peter, Peter. "What does it sound like to you? I don't know what I'm feeling is called, but it's definitely not just a friendly thing."

She stared at you for a moment, contemplating what to do next. "I'm not sure if this has anything to do with you two," she began, "but I think you should know. . . You know how you'd leave during lunch sometimes to go to the bathroom?"

You nodded, recalling the multiple occasions.

"Well," she continued. "Ned and I talked about it, and we noticed that Peter's not the same when you're gone, either. Like, he'd look so bored and would play games on his phone compared to when you're at the table and he'd never stop talking."

You imagined him doing so. "Huh."

"Yeah. . ." she said. "Let's just go to sleep, okay? Sleep on it, and I'll remind you whatever you forgot you said in the morning, alright? Then we can figure out what to do."

As soon as MJ said the word "sleep," you instantly realized how heavy your eyelids felt. You nodded at her proposal, and laid yourself down on the couch with her.

You weren't sure if your eyes were closed or if it was just that dark in the living room, but you were definitely thinking. You imagined the feeling of being brushed against Peter's body, whenever you sat next to each other or walked side by side in the school halls. He started driving recently, and for some reason you always got shotgun while MJ and Ned didn't hesitate to sit in the back. You could nearly feel your elbows touching when you both leaned on the console at the same time. You remembered the times he'd laugh around you, uncaring about how loud it might've been, as well as the fact that he said your name more times in one day than anybody else did in a whole month.

His absence sophomore year definitely put a strain on you. You loved Michelle and Ned to bits, but you were pretty sure you might've loved Peter in a different way.

Him being out of your life for that period of time was confusing but, at the same time, clearer than looking through a window. You managed to keep tabs on him even if it meant only scrolling through his Instagram or seeing how he'd hold himself across the hall. You knew then that you cared about that boy more than you ever cared for anyone else.

You were terrified of you two becoming more than friends because that meant you had a chance of it ending badly and never talking to him again. Staying friends meant staying safe.

It meant that you had more of a chance of him being with you, which is what you knew you always wanted. You knew you'd be happy, crush or not, as long as Peter was in your life the rest of the way.

Is that what it feels like to love?

-

You nervously rubbed your hands together, which gained odd looks from other students due to the warm New York weather. It was a few months after that fated night with Michelle, the day of the senior field trip. The entire senior class got to go into the city and do whatever they wanted for an entire school day.

Michelle coolly stood beside you, her hands in both her jacket pockets. "I'm excited," she admitted.

You squinted at her. "For what?"

An uncharacteristic smile broke her face. "You know! You're finally gonna confess your feelings to Parker. It's about time, honestly. Ned and I were beginning to think about calling off our deal we started freshman year—"

"Hey guys!" a voice chimed in from afar.

You gave MJ a look to stop talking about the subject, watching Ned and Peter walking towards you two.

"I am so excited," Ned said. You caught him giving Michelle a wink, which told you that she informed him of the "plan."

You would've groaned if Peter weren't standing right next to you.

"Me too!" Peter said obliviously. "I really want to check out that new pop culture museum."

A teacher announced for everyone to gather up and get inside the bus. The four of you sat in the back together, you and MJ sharing one seat while Peter and Ned were seated right in front of you.

"I'm scared of getting lost, honestly," Ned confessed a bit after the bus began moving.

Peter huffed his chest. "Don't worry, man! The internship," he winked at the three of you, "really let me get to know the city, so I'll know everywhere we go."

You and MJ rolled your eyes together. Peter had shared his secret about being Spider-Man with the two of you not too long after he got his license, only because his "spider senses were tingling" right before avoiding a crash.

"By 'everywhere' do you mean all the port-a-potty's?" you teased him.

Peter made a face. "That was one time! Ya use the bathroom once and that's when the paparazzi show up," he whispered to himself.

-

You were nervous for nearly the entire day due to the anticipation of confessing to Peter. It was hard figuring out when and where to do so; should you make a big deal out of it like one big crush proposal or just bring it up out of nowhere as if it were the most normal thing to say?

Decisions, decisions.

The four of you were inside the new Museum of Pop Culture, wandering around aimlessly with offhand remarks for everything in the exhibits.

"Guys," Ned said. He walked beside Michelle while you and Peter were behind. "The horror exhibit actually looks pretty scary."

You peeked through the glass doors, the exhibit on the other side. All you could see was red glowing from the ceiling, which did make Ned seem correct.

"Never fear," Peter whispered to the three of you. "Spider-Man is here."

Your group walked through the doors, instantly being met by speakers blasting screams and haunting music. The red lights from above were your only source of light, leading the way deeper into the exhibit.

"Oh," MJ said softly. "Y/N, don't look up."

Not many things scared you, but you knew that Michelle was well aware of what did.

Trusting her, you instinctively gripped onto Peter's upper arm and watched your feet move on the ground. You noticed he instantly tensed at the contact, his bicep tougher with your fingers barely able to wrap around it.

"It's alright, Y/N," Peter said, looking up to see what MJ was talking about. "It's not even that ba—ohmygod we're not walking that way."

He redirected you to the left after the exhibit opened up into a large room. You heard Ned and Michelle chuckle at Peter, who allowed the two of you to move in front of them.

"Dude," you heard Ned from behind. "It's just a bunch of hanging bodies wrapped like. . . mummies?"

Knowing you were well past whatever MJ told you not to look at, you raised your head and took in your surroundings.

"Oh," you said. "It's not that bad."

You looked to the right side of the room where Peter made a point not to cross and saw what Ned was talking about. You laughed, letting go of Peter's arm. "You call yourself Spider-Man? It's not even that scary."

All of you stopped and stood with one of the walls behind you, scoping out the exhibit.

"That's the one thing I don't like!" Peter complained.

Michelle walked over to the small area of fake bodies hanging from the ceiling, all of them covered with cloth and net. She poked it.

"It's fake, you dork," she said.

You and Ned followed her and saw the bodies made a maze, leading to an explanation on what movie that section was about. The three of you taunted Peter, walking into the maze.

The brunette puffed his chest. "Yeah, whatever."

He was last to go inside, the rest of you well ahead. There was a line of bodies between you and him, so you pushed the one closest to him.

Peter screeched.

"One thing!" he screamed. "That is the one single thing! I hate you guys!"

The rest of you broke out into laughter.

-

You were all seated in a McDonald's booth, leisurely eating your shared meals. You had assumed the same seating as you always did for lunch at Midtown.

You felt a kick from under the table. Looking up, Michelle gave you a pointed look.

"I'm gonna go to the bathroom," she announced.

She scooted out of the booth and stood up.

"Oh yeah, me too." Ned said.

The two of them walked towards the back of the fast food restaurant.

So this was it.

How the hell were you going to do it? You didn't even know if Peter had any feelings more than platonic for you. What if all he felt was platonic? You would make things awkward, ruin your friendship, waste all that time for the past four years being one of his best friends for something non-mutual.

You could hear your heart beating through your eardrums. Your hand shook a little every time you raised a fry to your mouth.

You were terrified. You weren't sure if confessing would even be worth it. In a few months, high school would be over. You'd have no good reason to see any of your friends everyday again, nonetheless Peter by himself.

Maybe you've just been overthinking everything. It wouldn't have been hard to believe that your feelings came only from convenience of going to the same school, having the same class, eating at the same table.

You cared for him, but maybe that was all there was. It could just be an unconditional love, like loving a brother.

You shook your head at yourself. That wasn't it; you definitely did not think of Peter as a brother. Even a little graze against him made your senses go wild. Every time you had eye contact with him, you'd force yourself not to look away despite thinking he'd always have been able to look straight into your soul and know what you felt.

You always knew what he would say if he saw you do something stupid, and you were always excited to hear what he'd think about something that happened to you when he wasn't there. You'd be able to recognize his laugh a mile away, and being the cause of his smile made you feel light.

You knew he'd tell you the truth on which shirt looked better with which jeans and not just say you looked good no matter what. He'd make sure to take stray lint out of your hair and point out if you had something in your teeth.

You've had short crushes on other people, and you even dated some of them for an amount of time. They never made you feel the same way Peter did.

You remembered the feelings you had when you found out he went to homecoming with Liz Allen sophomore year. When you learned of his crush on her, it was a dull ache. But when you even saw them at the dance together? It pierced.

But you were still able to get back to the groove of your feelings after that.

Yeah, you might've been in love with Peter Parker. What took you four years to realize that?

"Hey, Y/N?"

Your head jerked up and you looked at him beside you. God, what were you going to do? Could you bring yourself to say it?

Shut up,you thought to yourself. Eventually, it'll be too late. Say it now.

Peter continued talking after you stayed silent.

"I know this is really out of the blue," he said. He put down the burger in his hands and faced you completely. "But I just want to say thank you for everything. We're gonna be graduating pretty soon and. . . I don't know. I just really appreciate you—and MJ and Ned—for sticking around."

You nodded your head, urging him to continue, nervous to hear what he had to say next.

"Things were really weird after I got bit by the spider and I still feel like shit for ditching you guys for a while. . . But thanks for letting me come back. I couldn't have ever imagined getting better people in my life than you three. Even if we go across the country for college or something, I really hope we can all stay friends. I love you guys, you know."

Oh.

You smiled at him like he did to you. Friends.

You cleared your throat. "I love you too, Pete."

[abla-soso]

Oh, it's interesting that you're liking Sansa! I haven't been long in the fandom, but it seems like Sansa fans and Daenerys fans really don't get along, so that's actually interesting on your part xD Also! About your Ned comment - I love Ned myself and I've always seen that opening scene as a criticism toward upholding duty that's connected to rigid rules. Like, it seemed obvious that the execution wasn't supposed to be anything positive and yeah, the fandom does tend to ignore it. (This is a re-read on your part, right??? If not, pls ignore the rest of my ask!!!)

- It's part of the reason I get annoyed by the takes on Jon in the latest book when he decides to get involved in the "politics" (fights) of the North for his sister; e.g. fans saying that he had his death coming because he broke his "vows" and that's oh-so-awful of him. Vows, rules, the system - we're supposed to *question* those things because they were man-made and aren't actually (always) morally right. It's a point in the story. The Kingsguard are a prime example of that. So, I really am not sure why the fandom at large doesn't seem to get that. Or maybe I am just missing smth, lol.

Maybe I shouldn't have said I'm "re-reading" the novels, lol. Cuz I only read them years ago - while quickly scanning the text and skipping many paragraphs - and I forgot almost all of it. So really; it's more accurate to say that I'm kinda reading these novels for the first time. At least that's how it feels to me.

I've always liked Sansa but I only really started to appreciate her character in recent years. Western writing has an obsession with active characters, so it's really great to see a mostly passive character like Sansa lovingly flushed out and focused on this much. I never understood why modern readers have such a disdain for passive characters (to the point of considering passivity a character flaw and a sign of poor writing). Not every character needs to directly impact the plot for them to be interesting and likable. The inner world of a passive character can be just as interesting as any active character, especially if the "passivity" was a survival mechanism rather than an inherent personality trait. Most abuse victims are forced into positions of passive powerlessness anyway, with little to no agency to act upon their agency, so it's very distasteful for me to see people shitting on Sansa's passivity. As if passivity can't be an active choice for self-protection. Enduring the abuse that Sansa suffered takes a lot of mental strength, and this strength is a choice.

I never got why people would take "sides" while reading a story like ASOIAF. It's one thing to have favorites and biases, but it's strange to put one character or one house on a pedestal while shitting on the rest. I like the Starks and I like Theon and the Lannisters (as characters, not as people). I like Sansa and I like Daenerys (as a character, not as a person). They are all interesting characters and houses to explore, and if you dismiss one of them because they hurt your favs then you're missing out on huge chunks of the story itself. It's even more strange to root for someone or some house to "win" the Iron Throne when it's pretty damn obvious that the war for the Iron Throne is presented in the text as needlessly brutal and pointless (I blame the show for this).

Ned is a good, kind, honorable man who kinda enslaved himself to his morals. Some readers make the mistake of attributing Ned's tragic fall to the fact that he had altruistic ideals and stuck by them to the end (implying that he should have been more coldly pragmatic and gotten rid of some of his moral goodness) but that's not it. Ned's problem is him blindly equating "honorable" lawfulness with universal moral goodness. He never seriously questions the morality of his times' laws and customs (beheading a mentally ill man who did nothing morally wrong, taking a young boy as a hostage to kill when his father misbehaves). GRRM is not trying to say that honor is false and having moral ideals and vows is dumb and everyone should be cold pragmatics to survive, far from it. GRRM is a realist who adores the romanticism of fantasy, not a nihilist who mocks morality and meaning and values survival above all. The people who read ASOIAF as a nihilist narrative (simply for realistically examining the romanticism of Medieval ideals) are just as mistaken as the people who take uncritically accept Medieval ideals and judge the characters for not following them.

[him-e]

Those tags about Edd & Sansa were perfect :) I can't believe Jon has literally done the same thing to both of them lol. He does seem to be getting into a bad habit of leaving a position & just giving it to someone else to look after without any warning or even knowing if they can do it. With the Wall and the North, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way and yet as my brother says, he treats it like he is asking them to watch the cooking while he's out of the room. It's more serious than that.

The only thing I can say about this aside from “we needed to teleport Jon to Dragonstone by episode 3 and we don’t have time for a proper transition in leadership″ that this is another sign of Jon’s humility. He doesn’t think of himself as someone particularly suited for the role. He thinks he’s one of many. It’s also coming from his soldier mentality—in the Night’s Watch, they all received the same training and they were equals, so Edd Tollett is just as qualified as he is to hold the Wall. With Sansa, the fact remains that she’s the true Stark and he isn’t and he still feels it deeply. Tasking her with ruling Winterfell probably lifted a weight from his shoulders, as I’m sure he felt like he was occupying a place that was never meant for him.

It’s actually interesting that he used the same wording with Sansa, like he was speaking to an actual second-in-command.

Another anon:

This might be a random question but do you think that people underestimate Jon or that they mistake his kindness and mercy for weakness?

Sure some of them (apparently, including Sansa) do, but this is not going to be Jon’s fatal flaw anymore, at this point of the story. No real bad will come from Alys Karstark or Ned Umber being pardoned… nor from Sansa being left in charge (even if it will look like she will betray Jon for a while, she won’t, and why won’t she? oh yes. because Jon is good). Similarly, no bad will come to Jon from his bending the knee to Dany or whatever /stupid honorable thing/ Jon is going to do this season. It has been established that it’s exactly Jon’s selflessness and heroism and *purity* that inspires people to follow him. Some people will always mistake this for weakness, but the heroes? the one that really matter at this point of the story? Tyrion, Dany, and so on? They will appreciate Jon’s character, whereas the Ramsays and the Thornes and the Littlefingers did not… and their place is in a grave.

If anything, Jon’s problem is that he has trouble communicating his greater goals to his followers, so they may not entirely understand his decisions. I don’t blame him for that, though. No one among the Northern lords has seen the White Walkers—they believe him, but they haven’t experienced it—so it’s hard to make them wrap their minds around the need to make alliances with powerful armies.