chatxkilluaxnoir

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Replying to the tags of the person I am reblogging this from.

Dick has literally been slut-shamed in canon after being raped. People have gotten upset with him in canon, after he has gotten raped.

He has gotten raped multiple times in canon (Liu, Catalina, Mirage).

People in canon and by the fandom sexualize the heck out of Dick (which yes, Dick is a very pretty man. But as someone else said, a character being hot, pretty, sexy, and/or etc. is/can be fine, as long as they aren't reduced to just being that/their characterization is reduced to just being that. Which luckily isn't happening too much with Nightwing now, but it has happened before/has happened in official stuff/"official" stuff.

(Nothing Butt Nightwing literally exists. Dick in the Harley Quinn show sometimes. Etc.).

And people in the Nightwing fandom also just want DC to actually tastefully touch on Dick's history with rapes and harassment and sexual harassment and etc., but they haven't really done that (well, hopefully they will do it someday well. Until then, we have fan stuff) for the most part. Like, this kind of dark subject matter happening in stuff is/can also be fine, but it should at least explored/handled more and/or better too.

And again, Dick has had people in canon, multiple times, rape him, and just be really weird and uncomfortable with him. Which Dick doesn't like and he is usually shown to be uncomfortable with.

Dick was also shot in the head at least partially to cause Bruce pain, basically. And then we got Ric, for years in real time.

Dick has also been killed multiple times, to make Batman darker, or the universe darker, and/or for other characters devlopment, and/or because if he were actually alive, the dark/evil/edgy universe that people want to do sometimes, would be harder to do sometimes, and they can't be bothered to try (at least sometimes).

I am not even saying he is or isn't female-coded here, but this stuff you are saying happens with female characters, and if they were actually female-coded the same or similar things will happen to them is basically happened with Dick.

Again, not saying Dick is or isn't female-coded here (also, males can have these things happened to them, w/o being female-coded anyways. Males, like females, can have issues with this stuff too, and can also be victims), but I just wanted to bring up that the stuff/some of the stuff you are mentioning has at least happened with Dick.

The thing that gets me about people who love to talk about x or y male Robins being "female coded" is that it could pretty much apply to all of them if you stretch hard enough. Dick does emotional labour for Bruce and gets punched when Bruce gets angry enough, often with the younger siblings looking on in horror. Jason was killed for Bruce's pain and recently had his biological chemistry altered to make him more agreeable. Tim is bisexual and didn't conform to the masculine standards either of his fathers set. Damian is a child who must reject his mother and join his father to try and get any control of his life, but only under the patriarchal approval.

But then I read comics with actual female characters like Steph or Cass or Helena or Talia and it's just. It's so blatantly not comparable. DC is so unsubtle with its misogyny it's so blatant and in your face that these characters are being treated this way both by the other characters, the writers, and the fans, because they are women. The Batboys have different, more accurate angles to analyse from. So when it comes to saying they're "female coded" it's just like... What is the point. None of the "female coding" actually affects their status as men in the narrative or in fandom. If it did DC would treat them like they did Robin Stephanie and fans would exclude them from all the main batfamily posts. And yet "this character is female coded" is something I see popping up again and again and it feels useless at best and irritating at worst. OK yeah Bruce hits Dick, Bruce dismisses Jason's emotions. Barbara Gordon was fridged in a deliberately sexual manor because she is a woman. Cassandra Cain was character assassinated into being creepy and sexual towards Tim during her brainwashed era because DC has never seen an Asian woman they don't want to hit with the one two racialised misogyny combo. Steph was told she hit like a girl, was not as good as Tim (because she was a girl), was tortured and sexually assaulted and killed and it was a fight to even get them to acknowledge her as Robin. Because she's a girl.

Patriarchy affects everyone but analysing them as female coded instead of young boys raised in a patriarchal environment just makes me annoyed. If Jason was female coded Lobdell wouldn't have written his dynamic with Starfire like that. If Dick were female coded his dynamic with Barbara would not be written the way it is. And if you're saying "well this specific abusive pattern the character goes through reminds me of common gendered violence against women" then fine. Sure. Bit of a stretch but I can kind of see where you're coming from. Calling it female coded is stupid though and I don't think you can change my mind on that. Like think of any other axis of bigotry not derived from misogyny, and calling a character who is not x or y "x or y coded" because of certain panels or moments you thought felt similar to the constant systemic oppression they suffer. Would you be able to post that sincerely and feel like it's a correct take and not just trivialising what members of the actual group go through?

Maybe if we lived in a world where the trauma female characters go through in DC comics is given a tenth of as much focus by both DC and fans I wouldn't get so annoyed about the term. But we don't. Instead we live in a world where people watched Supernatural and saw Dean Winchester be misogynistic and homophobic for 15 seasons straight and went "that's a female coded eldest daughter." and also a world where I saw two dc tiktoks in a row that made me frown. So instead you get this long rant. Sorry about that.

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Fair enough.

I have just been topic/discussion/discourse sometimes kind of strange sometimes. Esp. for Dick of all characters. Considering how little he tends to spend money on himself, even when he does have money (that he usually earns through his own work and jobs. Dick has had a lot of jobs and stuff).

But again, if u just wanted to make jokes and stuff, that is totally fine.

(Also fair enough that u just have less experience than me on this topic/these topics, and have seen less discussion and/or discourse on it/them).

👏Dick👏 shouldn't👏be👏a👏 billionaire👏

DC please please please 🥺 make him lose his money and let him live in a one bedroom apartment.

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Ok, fair enough that u haven't read a Nightwing run for awhile. I was just a bit confused by what u were saying, because Dick has already been giving away the money (Dick rather he has money or not, tends to be stubborn about using it or getting money help or help in general a decent enough amount of time and etc.).

He made (might be forgetting the exact name here a bit, because I can suck at names sometimes) the Alfred Pennyworth Organization (again, this name might be kind of wrong), which he already uses at least some of the money he was given to run this organization which main point is to try to help others.

"i less agreed with the people above me i just think it makes sense for dick to have enough money to live"

I am happy (like legitimately, I am not being sarcastic here) that u think he shouldn't always be really broke and forever in some of his worst conditions/times when it comes to money (among other stuff).

Like always sleeping on a fire escape with a newspaper (which has had happened to him) after he lost a bunch of stuff and people, and was just in overall in a terrible place (and it would keep getting pretty terrible for him for awhile) or having money issues after being kicked out (multiple times) or etc.

Not saying Dick can't and shouldn't be in terrible conditions and places, this is Dick, Dick goes through so SO much stuff in his life and he is still going through stuff in his life.

I am just happy u don't think he should just always be in a state more like some of his worst times of his life states.

"(which i think is represented sometimes"

Besides the recent organization he made honoring Pennyworth and also gave a couple of other examples of using the money for others or sometimes for sentimental reasons (for Haly's circus. Though him owning Haly's circus, also helped the circus, and helped with building more job opportunities. Which was also reasons why Dick bought Haly's. Poor Haly's circus got burned down during that time though, and some people died. Dick was really going through it during that time).

"but again i haven’t read a nightwing comic in ages don’t ask me about the newer runs 💀)"

Would really rec. the newest Nightwing run currently going on right now. Watters run. It starts at Nightwing 2016- #119. It has been really good so far. Dick has also some other great stuff with him as Robin and/or Nightwing.

(U ofc don't have to read any of these though, lol).

👏Dick👏 shouldn't👏be👏a👏 billionaire👏

DC please please please 🥺 make him lose his money and let him live in a one bedroom apartment.

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

He is, he is already doing this? Giving away his money and using it help other people.

Like, Dick is very stubborn, and rarely, if ever uses money from Bruce or others.

Like, he might accept some money help/money (for a very short period of time, if so. Again, Dick strives to be independent and self-sufficient and can be very stubborn about a lot of things, including money help), but overall, or already uses the money more for his vigilante life, or for charity (which he does a lot with Alfred's money. He uses it to help/try to help other people, and not really for himself), or buying apartment buildings to help give people a home, or buying Haly's circus, because of his connections to it, and to help bring jobs to Gotham, and etc.

I am just genuinely confused why some people are having so much issue with Dick getting Alfred's money (which, it made perfect sense for Alfred to give Dick his money, considering how very close the two are), when Dick is still very stubborn and still barely actually uses much of for it fully for himself.

And it is not like Dick can't already earn money, Dick basically always has jobs. Sometimes, he can be forgetful with certain endeavors he puts his money into and etc., and can be very stubborn about stuff, including money help. But like, Dick has had money in the past, that he has earned. And he a lot of the time uses it to help others, or for sentimental reasons, because Dick is just always so busy and a major workaholic and doesn't really care about living in nicer and fancier and etc. places, even if/when he does have money.

Like, that is part of why his apartments either tend to a be mess in some ways (he is more organized for like, his work/vigilante/etc. stuff), at least, because he just doesn't really unpack stuff, and when he does actually put up decorations, they are mainly sentimental, like pictures, and his flying Graysons poster.

It is not really a mess because he is a slob or can't cook (like, Dick has been in teams, on his own, etc., a lot. He can cook. But again, Dick is a major workaholic, who will go days barely sleeping. And he gets called out on this stuff and/or others worry for him about this stuff and/or etc. Hence part of why he will eat cereal sometimes, because it is quicker and easier). He just doesn't really care that much about living environment for various reasons (Dick can see himself as a tool) and is very busy and just a major workaholic.

Anyways, I just don't, personally understand this complaint (the want for him to have less money. And/or to be broke, basically, like some people seem to want) for Dick of all people. I would get it with some other characters, maybe, but with Dick, I find this issue to be kind of weird personally. Not saying people can't have it, but I just find it kind of weird.

And it kind of reminds of the complaints of people always wanting Peter Parker's life to always suck and for him to be broke, no matter how much older and more experienced he gets. Which, I don't actually think is that good for Peter's character. I get wanting this earlier on for Peter, but seeing Peter making or trying to make his life improve, at least in some ways, while also improving others, can be nice/nice devlopment.

Also kind of reminds of people who want Bruce to be a millionaire and not a billionaire, and just no, imo, Bruce being really rich is usually important for him (stuff like Absolute Batman notwithstanding, and with Absolute Batman, him having less money is one of the points for that version of Batman), and he legit needs to be able to mostly fund stuff like the Justice League and Watchtower. I am not saying there can't be points (and there has been) where Bruce has less money and/or loses money, but I just find the complaints and/or points on why Bruce should be a millionaire and not a billionaire to not be very good personally.

"DC please please please 🥺 make him lose his money and let him live in a one bedroom apartment."

It is not like he is living anywhere fancy, he is currently living in one of Titans' places currently. Which Dick is apart of and has been the leader of. For a long time.

Hopefully he gets his own place (not that a Titans' place isn't already his own place in a sense. But one that is also more civilian/a more civilian/regular place) again, with his job money. Like he usually does.

Edit: Not that I mind when he has been more broke, down on his luck, literally sleeping on a fire escape with a newspaper, broken, etc. I can love this stuff. But like, I don't want him to be just always be unhappy, with his life just always sucking, and basically getting the Peter treatment in comics, which are basically obsessed so much with Peter's life sucking and the status quo, and being a teenager, even though he is an adult (which u can barely tell in modern comics sometimes.

(Like, there was a time where Peter was doing well and was happily married. And he was an adult for awhile in comics. But then Marvel got too obsessed with Peter's life always being utterly awful, not being married or having kids, and being in highschool and/or not an adult, even when he is not an adult sometimes. Etc.), etc.

I don't want Nightwing to get the Peter treatment (God, I really hope Peter starts getting more great stuff again. He deserves it. Luckily, Dick currently is getting more great stuff again, esp. in comics. And I hope that continues. And we keep getting more great stuff. Both in comics and outside of it).

And to be shown as incompetent. By just showing him just always being able poor/broke. Because he just always sucks at money that much, I guess.

It is one thing for Dick to not care, to be that obsessed with being a vigilante and helping others, over himself (which sometimes he treats as more of a tool than anything. Doesn't care about a lot of ways), because he is just that busy and that much of a workaholic, because he sometimes cares more about the simpler things and doesn't want to accept help in multiple various ways, including money, for Dick to be very stubborn, it is another to just be making him always poor and broke, because he is suddenly that incompetent, or because of status quo reasons (status quo isn't always bad, but sometimes it is bad).

Anyways, end of my ramble/rant/etc. now, for realz. Hopefully.

👏Dick👏 shouldn't👏be👏a👏 billionaire👏

DC please please please 🥺 make him lose his money and let him live in a one bedroom apartment.

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

So when Dick does it it's the end of the world but when Ollie does....

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

I just saw someone saying that Tim defin. was more capable at combat and being a detective as Robin than the other Robins when they were Robin. Including Dick.

Are u kidding me?

Tim had basically no combat and physical skills (that were good for being a vigilante, at least) experience and training.

Dick is very hard working (literally been a workaholic and perfectionist and etc. even before Bruce): Been training and working as worker and performer in the circus and a acrobat since a very young age. At least 3-5. And is basically a world class and prodigious and very experienced acrobat already with his parents by a very young age. Also has been shown to have other skills and etc. that he picked in the circus and the people there besides being an acrobat. Including knife skills, rope skills/stuff, escapist stuff of all sorts, contortionist stuff, juggling (he literally jugged batarangs in one take on his first year as Robin. Like him being able to do that is funny, terrifying, and amazing). Etc.

And just very very talented and prodigious and very experienced and trained in multiple ways.

Jason, while not having training, had more actual life experience than Tim. And much rougher (imo) childhood overall than Tim. So I wouldn't really say Tim had better combat skills than Jason as Robin either. At least, if u only compare the years Jason was Robin. Like 3-5 years, I think, and Tim's first 3-5 years. Jason and Tim can be kind of hard to compare, because they have very different tenure lengths as Robin.

Both Dick and Jason, imo, just have backgrounds pre-Bruce that equip them to having better combat skills already without training and/or with less training than Tim. Who didn't really

(Good on him (though) on working and training so hard to get so good at being combat, being a detective, and other stuff though. The other Robins worked and trained and studied hard too though. I just want to give props to Tim here, since Tim didn't really have a background, imo, that equipped him super/as well to be Robin/a vigilante. And had to deal with a lot of tests, because Bruce wanted to make Tim was ready, and/or because Bruce still didn't really want a Robin again after Jason esp.).

Dick was also the detective Robin. He had very good detective skills as Robin, and is still does. Dick is a great detective. Who know, literally trained (with Bruce) Tim in multiple ways, including on how to be a detective. Tim was a smart and observant kid when he first came to Bruce, but he wasn't a master detective already. Like Dick and Bruce, he had to learn and gain experience.

And I just personally wouldn't Tim was the better detective as Robin than Dick.

Don't get me wrong, both Dick and Tim are great detectives. And I eat up when DC shows both these guys smarts and detective skills well.

Would say Tim was a better detective as Robin than Jason though (Jason is still smart though), and probably Damian though (though Damian does show good potential and pretty good detective skills too. And is also, smart too).

Sorry, I know this post was about Jason and Dick, but I just saw someone saying this about Tim with Dick and/or the other Robins

(they were also saying that just generally that Tim was the most competent and/or capable Robin. And yeah, Tim is very capable and/or competent, but I wouldn't say I agree with him being MOST so as Robin. Like, both Dick and Damian are very capable and competent as Robin.

Jason wasn't incompetent or bad either as Robin (like, Jason didn't die because he was stupid or reckless, he died trying to save and protect his biological mother, who basically sold out her son, and helped get him killed. God, I do not like Jason's bio Mom), despite how DC decides to try him as sometimes for some reason (well, I kind of know the reasons, but whatever, not the main point(s) of this reblog).

Don't think Duke was really incompetent either.

Stepth was painted as incompetent sometimes, because they were trying to get her killed off. But honestly, mainly blame Bruce (I love Bruce, but he messed up big time w/ Stepth imo), and how much they were trying to kill off Stepth, and then actually did kill her off for a time. Stepth is capable too (and could be competent and capable as Robin too. But again, they were trying to kill her off too, so sometimes they painted her as incompetent and bad. I really don't like War Games).

Carrie was capable too. Etc.

Again, Tim is capable and competent as Robin, but the most capable and/or competent as Robin; I don't really think I agree with that. Tim is up there though. No, I got side tracked again), and reminded me of this post, since it is basically saying the same thing that was being said about Tim and Dick and/or Tim and other Robins more generally. But with Dick and Jason.

Anyways, I agree, that this: "Jason was physically better than Dick as Robin"

Is just not true. Imo. Jason is no slouch in being physically strong and capable as Robin ofc. But Dick, is well, what u said, and what I said above. And just has a lot of training and experience in the circus (as a an acrobat. Plus other stuff he picked up and did in the circus from other people there and/or etc.).

Dick was a child star, basically/pretty much. And showman/entertainer/performer (for both better and worst). And like Dick said, being a showman is hard. Being an acrobat is also very hard (takes a lot of skill, physical strength, training, etc.) and also, deadly, dangerous, and life-risking (even more so w/o nets) in general.

Seriously, Dick was proud (Dick honey, ten hours a day until u so many blisters and I can imagine until then even bled sometimes is so much. I know u are very prideful Dickie, and/or have a lot of pride. And that u love ur parents. And they certainly loved u. But that is so much, Dick) to be training at least 10 hours a day.

He has been training and working since at least 3-5 too.

Also, on top of that, the circus was a main place where the Court of Owls would get their Talons. Including Dick's great grand father and almost Dick. And Dick was basically seen to be able to become the best of the Talons, their Gray Son. So there is also that too. But even if u don't count this, Dick is very physically capable and trained (in mainly different ways than his training with Bruce and/or etc. though. But still training) and experienced already pre-Bruce.

Like, Dick has so much experience and training and etc. already at the very young age he meets Bruce.

Damian, Cass, and Dick have some very interesting parallels and similarities to each other. Like stuff like this.

Anyways, I very much agree with ur post. Honestly, some the takes I see. Like this one. And the Tim one I just saw (and talked about in this post. Sorry, I rambled about that way too much probably) just kind of make me scratch my head (can understand somewhat more people saying this: ""Jason was physically better than Dick as Robin"" than Tim take I saw, personally. Still don't agree with this Jason and Dick take u are talking about here though. I.e., well, the thing I just quoted).

"Jason was physically better than Dick as Robin"

...

DICK WAS ALREADY TRAINING 10 HOURS A DAY BEFORE JASON WAS BORN, HE WAS ALREADY A PROFESSIONAL ACROBAT WHEN HE WAS BORN, WTF IS WRONG WITH U

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Plese, helpt to give me creative ideas, Duck.

Duck, also help motivate me, to set those ideas and stuff in motion, to please, as well, if possible.

Thank you.

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

While we're still on our way to our final stretch goal, the goodies don't stop there!

If this post can get 100 reblogs and 500 Shared Likes/Hearts across all socials, ALL PHYSICAL bundles will get these three amazing page prints!!

Don't delay, get your Leo goods today!

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

Thanks for the answer(s)!

"(Also, a little less related to my point, but, Why does Sans only fight the player if they've reached LV 19 through killing Mettaton? Why doesn't he fight you if you've killed most monsters, but not all of them?)" Because (and this is just my POV on it, and u can have a different one), Sans sees no point in it. If you decide to spare Mettaton, then then there world won't end, and Sans can tell rather u will or won't end all the timelines making it so to Sans' POV, not even a Reset could "fix" things. Sans also just has majorly given up, and in his words "this is what happens when guys like him take breaks." When he is disappointed at himself for not doing more, despite being able to. Sans is very tired and has given up in a lot at this point. It is also apart of his strategy, he is trying to guide you on better paths, because despite how much he hates it, he knows you have the control, so he is trying to have some control and trying to make things better, by guiding u to take better paths.

And again, he doesn't see much point of fighting/attacking you, because of his view on time stuff and powers. Making him very disillusioned (though he did try and care at one point) about trying to actually stop you for good.

I just personally don't really see Sans not fighting when he does to have to do with LV/EXP, but instead there being other character reasons. Including reasons that Sans basically states. Again, just imo though.

These are why questions that simply are not answered in the game. They are mysteries left open for us to fill in the blanks, either through logic, imagination, or some combination. Technically, we don't know that LV/EXP are connected to KR, but it's also not confirmed in game that they aren't connected." Which I totally agree with there being stuff left up to interpretation and stuff. I am not super big on LV/EXP is connected to Karma myself, but I can be fine w/ it (not fond when people use the theory as an excuse to make Sans weak and incompetent and/or etc. that can't do anything though. When that just, isn't really Sans. Even outside of the game, Toby portrays Sans as quite competent. But I don't think you are doing either, so it is fine). And I have been fine w/ it in ur comic so far.

"(You mentioned some evidence in the game that they aren't, but I'm not sure exactly what that evidence would be?"

" I'd be interested to learn what that is--"

KR is not connected to LV/EXP in the code in any way. Sans is confident-sounding that he can still deal with you, rather u have EXP/LV or not (though, that could also be because imo, lowering IV's is a separate ability from KR (in some ways). I think it is a bit of both. Plus other stuff). Like during the MTT scene, the other times he threatens you, beating himself up over not doing enough, despite being able to (i.e., "this is what happens when guys like me take breaks."), not really KR-related, but he can still hurt/kill you through use of stuff like lowering IV's, etc.

"though it won't change anything in the comic, haha!)"

Didn't expect it to. Mainly brought it up, because you said it was lore accurate, which I didn't really agree with. Saying that, this is ur own interpretation. And that is cool! And u ofc don't need to change ur interpretation.

Ur comic and ur take on Sans (and other characters). And Nema ofc. All remain really great and cool!

:)

"I also realize, at the end of typing all this out, that there's something a lot of people missed in that interaction with Flowey. It's subtle, but it is there, and it is crucial to this conversation.

Flowey says to Sans, with his vine wrapped around him, that he hasn't done anything, he hasn't hurt anybody. Then he taunts Sans, saying that Sans actually couldn't hurt Flowey, because of his self-proclaimed innocence.

However.

Is this actually true?

Is Flowey truly innocent of hurting anyone in this timeline?

Or is Sans, perhaps, in the heat of the moment, taking him at his word?

And if he is...why?"

Huh, these are interesting points u bring up about both Sans and Flowey here. Things to think about. Curious to learn more about this in-the-comic. Thank you for pointing this out.

Okay, some last things (hopefully this is my last ask for now, but it might not be): Okay, talking about this page again in Ch5 with this desc. (I can't just link it right now): "~~here comes the booooooy~~~~hello, boooy~~~welcooo—wait, what are you doing with that knife, wAIT STOP—". Mainly some tags you wrote for that page (this is me being nitpicky btw, and just more personal opinion of mine and stuff),...Continued in the next Ask...

I took a lot of time to think about my answer to this part of your question! I think the tags you're referring to had something to do with an idea in the tags of the comic, that the reason I gave for Sans not attacking Flowey is because Sans's Karma ability is tied to how much EXP/LV the person he's fighting has.

I'll go ahead and clear a couple things up here, because actually a few different people commented on this! I probably won't be able to give an answer that satisfies everyone, and that's okay. If I don't get something perfectly game accurate, there's probably a couple reasons: 1) I'm a human, and humans make mistakes, and 2) it worked better for the story I'm telling to adjust or change some things. With that in mind, here's my explanation:

You're right! It isn't confirmed in game that Sans's KR (Karma) ability has anything to do with how much EXP the player character has, or what LV the player character has reached. But this is where, as someone who loves digging deeper for answers, I started asking Why. (I think that why is one of the most interesting and important words in the human language, and a big reason why people make fanart and fanfiction--or any art at all--boils down to a why that we're compelled by.) So, Why isn't that confirmed in the game?

Probably a couple of reasons. It can't be confirmed in the game, because 1) Sans is the only one who uses karma in this way, and 2) he only uses it when he's fighting the protagonist, and 3) the only way you're ever, ever, ever gonna fight sans is if you have killed every monster along your way and reached LV 19. So, we can't compare his use of Karma here to some other monster's use of Karma, and we can't compare it to what it would look like if Sans was fighting someone with, say, LV 10. In the game, it very much does have a poisoning effect, in that it deals one damage per every frame you're being hit (or something like that), and that damage compounds on itself the longer you're in the hitbox. It's a fascinating mechanic in the game. But again, we only see it once, so there is no evidence it's tied to LV, EXP, or anything else.

If you'll indulge me for a minute, then, that brings us to another big "why," or several "why"s. Why is it called Karma? Why do we see Sans use it, but not other characters?

(Also, a little less related to my point, but, Why does Sans only fight the player if they've reached LV 19 through killing Mettaton? Why doesn't he fight you if you've killed most monsters, but not all of them?)

These are why questions that simply are not answered in the game. They are mysteries left open for us to fill in the blanks, either through logic, imagination, or some combination. Technically, we don't know that LV/EXP are connected to KR, but it's also not confirmed in game that they aren't connected. (You mentioned some evidence in the game that they aren't, but I'm not sure exactly what that evidence would be? I'd be interested to learn what that is--though it won't change anything in the comic, haha!)

I have my own answers as to why I think Sans's Karma works the way it does. Other people might have their own opinions. But that's the fun of headcanons and interpretations! I've come up with an answer that helps me to tell a fun, satisfying story. That's all I really care about in the long run.

I also realize, at the end of typing all this out, that there's something a lot of people missed in that interaction with Flowey. It's subtle, but it is there, and it is crucial to this conversation.

Flowey says to Sans, with his vine wrapped around him, that he hasn't done anything, he hasn't hurt anybody. Then he taunts Sans, saying that Sans actually couldn't hurt Flowey, because of his self-proclaimed innocence.

However.

Is this actually true?

Is Flowey truly innocent of hurting anyone in this timeline?

Or is Sans, perhaps, in the heat of the moment, taking him at his word?

And if he is...why?

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

For the giveaway (doing this super late minute, so I hope this takes). Since I love MommaCQ and Paper Crane so much, so I would love to have more stuff of them physically.

So, as for a favorite from MQQ, that is really hard, since I love so many of the characters from MCQ.

Like, I love Geno, Decans/Deccy, Fresh, Error, etc. all so much.

I love all their relationships so much.

However, if I had to pick my top 3, it would be Geno, Decans/Deccy, and Fresh. Fresh and Decans relationship is great and just love both so much (both their OG characters and their characters in MCQ). Will talk about Geno more in a second.

And if I had to pick a more top 1/just 1, it would probably have to be Geno.

I just love Aftertale and the OG Geno so much, and I really love how he is translated/done in MCQ. He still so much like Geno Sans, but now, younger and siblings with Fresh and Error. And his low health/basically always dying thing from his comic that happened because he basically should be dead, but survived because of DT and being stuck in the Save Screen being translated to being sick is really well-done (even though, it made me worried if he would survive to adult hood at least and/or have a decently long life in MCQ. I just wanted my boy Geno and his family and stuff to be friends). Just Geno is just so well-done in MCQ, like he is in Aftertale itself. And Geno's design, both his OG version and his kid MCQ version is among one of my favorites.

Just love him so much.

Hey guys! I know the image is small so there's a read under the cut for ya if you don't want to expand the image. This was mainly made for Twitter. Thanks! :D Discord link : https://discord.gg/Pue2kWXjUv

~MommaCQ and Paper Crane Comic Giveaway!!~

Hello followers!

Yes I am alive and still actually talk sometimes! Online traffic isn't what it used to be and thats fine! Things are quiet on the inbox end and honestly we get really busy on our end, like making comics! Comics that we are so happy that you read. Worldview : Kisara and ZigZag is coming to a close, and Worldview : Finch and Fondu has been wrapped up for awhile and we're getting close to finishing a completed printable version behind the scenes. So before we get to our regular shilling for pre-orders and bundle deal goodies for that, we'd like to give something back. For Twitter, Tumblr, and our Discord server we will be giving away a complete set of MCQ books including Asy's Backstory and Coloring Book and a copy of Paper Crane! @Little-Noko and I both talked about it and we decided we really wanted to do something special to sort of celebrate our past works before WV goes to print. So here's how to enter!

For Tumblr : Like the post =1 entry Reblog with either a doodle of OR a text explanation of your favorite MCQ character = 1 entry Send an ask in either Alaina OR Noko's inbox about MCQ, Paper Crane, OR Worldview = 1 entry

Twitter : Like the post = 1 entry Reblog with either a doodle OR text explanation of your favorite MCQ character = 1 entry

Discord : Submit a piece of fanart (written or drawn!) in the fanart room = 1 entry Use any of the relevant ask rooms on our server = 1 entry Leave a reaction on the FINAL page of MCQ in the server = 1 entry

We will be giving away THREE entire sets of all comics, one for each platform.

Additional rules and information!

Giveaway will last awhile, because its closing in on the holidays and we want to give people time to draw or write for the fanart entries, it will last from now until Dec 26th! I'll DM winners directly sometime very soon into the new year. The only reason we're not ending sooner is to avoid mixing in giveaways with the holiday rush when shipping is more expensive.

You may enter on all three platforms but cannot win more than one set!

International winners WILL be allowed but we cannot offer free shipping. I'm willing to charge LESS for shipping for an international winner but a set of books going overseas generally costs about $60 USD. We can discuss potential winner prices and what can be agreed upon when the time comes. Local US shipping will be free. Canadian I can ship easily for $20 USD.

All the books going out will be signed, as seen above!

Note for the MCQ sets, these sets will be slightly mixed! I mentioned we changed printers somewhat recently and most of the copies we have are from the older look. Only 1-2 books in each set will be of the newer design!

Have fun!

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

@chatxkilluaxnoir I promise I have seen your ask!! I am simply gathering screenshots to put under the cut and it's taking longer than I expected bc of irl commitments

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

So I know I haven't posted much but here

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

"sans is a hero and he bravely confronts you in a no mercy run in a righteous rage to get revenge for the lives you’ve taken and he fights you with his full power to save the whole world!” undyne is right there"

You are right, in that, Undyne would tend to be more the vengeful one (though I think could is, and kind of is too), and is fighting with more kind of a righteous anger, while Sans, is well, angry too, but I don't really think he feels righteous at all. Undyne is fighting to save the whole world, Sans is not really fighting to save the current world (though, that could be an added bonus for him, but yes, t is not his main motive). But he is stil trying to stop the end of the world, and to stop before things get to the point where not even a reset can fix things. Which is (part of) why he "can't afford not to care anymore".

Also, while I wouldn't really say he is a hero, he is more so very desperate. He is trying to stop what he sees as the end of everything. And will even keep fighting if u kill him multiple times (even though he knows u have killed him). Again, I am not saying he is a hero like Undyne,, but my dude is really trying more and stuff.

"“sans is a genius scientist who was gaster’s right hand and he helped build the core and make all sorts of important scientific discoveries about determination and resets, and it’s sad to see him so depressed and unmotivated knowing what he used to be!” alphys is right there"

Stuff like his fight, how logical and smart he is, his secret room/workshop/lab, his connections to Gaster, his connections to Alphys. Being one of the characters with the most awareness on how determined beings are like (up there with Gaster and Alphys ofc), to specifically mention time stuff (timelines, resets, mentions you not saving if you don't save at the end of a neutral run, the anomaly, times stopping and starting, until everything ends, how he studies reports with someone else(s), etc.), only one besides Flowey to mention EXP and LV and LOVE, very high awareness of game and/or world mechanics that he abuses in his fight, etc.

Shows he is (almost certainly)a scientist and/or has a scientific background himself. He also has Gaster connections that I mention in this reblog. And mention in another reblog to this post.

He is depressed and/or has mental health issues (will talk more about this later). Paps mentions he is sleeping and stuff more than he used to be, Toby in a tweet (I know, know what Toby said about tweets, but I do think it is interesting to mention considering what he see in game) mention Sans and someone else tried to fix the machine in his workshop, but couldn't.

Paps also generally in some ways acts like Sans' didn't used to be so unmotivated and depressed (probably partially why he tries to help motivate him and stuff. Like, pushing him to get one of his jobs, or how he is mad at Sans sleeping more than he used to. Sans has sleeping problems in general. Like making hundreds of snacks in the middle of night as mentioned by Undyne). Which, is also just funny).

Paps also mentions in an Alarm Clock dialogue that has been awhile since he could see Sans celebrate with friends to see him sleeps so soundly and stuff (so Paps lets him sleep). Despite having a large social circle, not many really know Sans on a more deep, private level. Like Paps says, "'Sans doesn't tell anyone anything".

He also does actually keep certain things really clean and organized; like his secret workshop/lab/room. While his bedroom he is really let go, and doesn't really look comfortable at all. Which is interesting.

This gets really long. So I am going to put the rest under a "Read more" cut:

“sans is so depressed about losing so many people close to him so he isolates himself and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there"

I find it really funny is basically just, "Well, Sans can't be these things, because these other characters are these things too in some way" Even though more than one character can do a decent amount of the stuff mentioned. Like be depressed.. And there is different forms of stuff too. Like depression (which, OP does mention in a reblog, when talking about how Sans deals with his depression compared to Toriel. So kudos there). Reminds me of a similar different (and very popular) post, that basically gave Sans no credit (they said they did it, because they liked Sans' canon character.

But they got so many things not right abut Sans'' canon character (imo), had a tone/way of writing that seemed more bash-y of Sans' character, instead of appreciating Sans' canon character, (which caused a decent amount of the reblogs to do the same) and was acting like more than one character can't have similar and/or etc. things. And was also acting like people were giving Sans traits of other characters, despite most of the things they mentioned being traits and things Sans actually has.

Like, this post reminds me so much of that other post, it is kind of uncanny. Ur post is shorter, less bash-y, and nicer-sounding though.

"“sans is so depressed about losing so many people close to him so he isolates himself and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there""

Anyways, let's talk abut this more specifically. I already kind of talked about Sans' depression and stuff. But let's do so again. While I do think Sans' depression can tend to come out more in angry and mocking and etc. that he tries to internalize, but ends up sometimes externalizing. It also comes out in stuff like (imo) sleeping more, being more unmotivated, having given up a lot

(Which he talks about in stuff like his Lost SOULs form. Which, the stuff he says and emotions he shows is Asriel basically reverting the characters back to how they were before Frisk. Which, Sans' Lost SOUL form is clearly grieving, sad, depressed, and/or etc. Which, luckily, the human does start to help him feel better in certain route(s). He also just talks about giving up a lot in other ways. Like "take it from me, you just gonna learn when to quit", or how he understands the human wanting to keep going, but sometimes you "just gotta take what is given to you.".

(Though, this was also probably him trying to keep his promise more. Trying, but he also realizes that u are going to want to keep pursing your goal and that he is rooting for you and that someone really cares about them -. And etc. My dude has given u/quit in a lot of aspects.

(Besides that, there is a lot of grief he shows. Like how I said, in his Lost SOUL, where he mentions never being able to see them again. (and he still has stuff like a picture of three of people with "don't forget", a bunch of pictures with people the human doesn't recognize. Picture(s) where he looks' happy. Which these things, and probably/maybe Gaster too, due to Sans' connections to him, are some of the people Sans has lost and/or will never see again. Also, not really important to this, but Sans also has a picture that is taken after a Pacifist route with him, Frisk, etc.),

Etc.

So he does so depression and/or etc. in stuff like his grief of the stuff and/or people he has lost and/or can't get back too. And shows depression and/or etc. in stuff besides anger/suppressed anger.

"he isolates himself"

Yes, this more of a way Toriel deals with her depression. Though Sans does keep his issues and etc. very private and doesn't tell anyone, and doesn't really seem to reach out for help for the most part. He doesn't really like to be seen as vulnerable.

""and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems"

This is something that does very much imply to Sans too.

"because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there"""

He is grieving and lonely in his own different way. And he is at least very paranoid about the anomaly, and resets and/or time stuff, or the end of everything, and/or etc.

Like, he is scared in a very different way than Toriel, sure. But he is at least very paranoid in his own right. Though, again, he does externalizing some of this stuff through stuff like anger. Or apathy (both fake and not). Or more specifically, him pretending to not care, when he does actually care (in some form(s)). And etc.

(Again), I know this post is old. I just felt like replying to this post for the reasons I said (in this post and/or my other reblog to this post).

Also, I can understand and get wanting those other characters to get love too. But like, u don't have to act like canon stuff about Sans is actually fanon and/or downplay stuff about him.

(I also don't think they are the most developed and complex characters in the game. Though, Alphys is probably one of the most developed, yes. And they are still all very developed and complex. I just also think other characters are just as developed and complex, if not more so (in some ways). Like Sans and Asgore for sure imo. And Paps and etc.).

Saying that, while I am not super fond of pots like these personally, I am (saying this again) starting to find them kind of funny in a way.

“sans is a hero and he bravely confronts you in a no mercy run in a righteous rage to get revenge for the lives you’ve taken and he fights you with his full power to save the whole world!” undyne is right there

“sans is a genius scientist who was gaster’s right hand and he helped build the core and make all sorts of important scientific discoveries about determination and resets, and it’s sad to see him so depressed and unmotivated knowing what he used to be!” alphys is right there

“sans is so depressed about losing so many people close to him so he isolates himself and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

"plus it... isn't even canon that sans and gaster ever worked together or even met each other iirc that part is all speculation"

His blasters are literally named Gaster blasters in the code, besides Gaster and the Gaster Followers, Sans and Alphys are the only ones to have FUN events (and Alphys probably has some Gaster connections too. Like Sans), the "don't forget" picture u can get in Sans' workshop only happens after a FUN event with a Gaster follow, and "don't forget" is something heavily connected to Deltarune, that Gaster is heavily connected with, he has some kind of scientific Background like Gaser (and Alphys), and etc. There is a very likely chance that Sans and Gaster did indeed know each other.

"and sans met you WAY earlier in the game than undyne did and he could very easily have put up a fight sooner. not much world left to save at the sans fight to be honest"

Yes, he could have, but he is also apathetic and nihilistic and fatalistic (because you know, he is a flawed person), is trying to keep his promise (which he takes very seriously; though he does sometimes keeps uses technicalities to keep promises. But still, they are very important to him, and he doesn't make them likely. And he does try to keep them), he thinks it is pointless to fight you (time powers, literally says in his fight that he knows you will probably kill him one of your turns. Etc.) and it is just part of his strategy to not fight (yet).

Also, there is still still plenty to save. Plenty of monsters evacuated, there are whole parts of the Underground we didn't really go to, like parts of New Home, the Surface world, etc. Also, Sans isn't really trying to save the current world (though, if he does, that is cool for him too). He is trying to stop the end of everything, and trying to make it so things can still be reset and fixed. Because what he sees next, he thinks not even a Reset could fix it. So he "can't afford to not care anymore".

People really seem to misunderstand parts of Sans' motives.

Which I can understand to some extent, because they are multiple and complex and some are harder to understand. But still.

“sans is a hero and he bravely confronts you in a no mercy run in a righteous rage to get revenge for the lives you’ve taken and he fights you with his full power to save the whole world!” undyne is right there

“sans is a genius scientist who was gaster’s right hand and he helped build the core and make all sorts of important scientific discoveries about determination and resets, and it’s sad to see him so depressed and unmotivated knowing what he used to be!” alphys is right there

“sans is so depressed about losing so many people close to him so he isolates himself and can’t motivate himself to do anything about very real problems because he’s just so sad and lonely and scared!” toriel is right there

[chatxkilluaxnoir]

tmnt fans when a 15 year old boy gets thrown through a window