#dc discourse

[atarashura]

okay but imagine if you will that Bruce makes it there before Jason fully passes away. Digging through the debris, finding him rasping, choking for breath, spitting up blood.

Bruce already knows, but he’s a mess, begging his son not to die, begging him to please stay with him, not now, not yet, it’s too soon-

Jason can’t talk anymore, he’s just spitting up blood, hacking, rasping, but worst yet, his eyes are scared, he’s just a boy, Bruce can read it in his eyes.

“Please dad, don’t let me die, please-“

His breath stops.

Bruce is just shaking, cradling his dead son, sobbing.

I feel that Bruce arriving too late doesn’t give us the full emotional gut punch Jason’s death really deserved!

I’m ill I needed to write this down I’m so sorry

[vikingpoteto]

Just saw someone saying Ollie kicking Roy out in snowbirds outweighs all of Bruce's fuck ups combined.... and I don't know how to say that Bruce put one of his children in a coma twice, prevented one of them from having a life outside vigilantism, got one of them killed, isolated one from the rest of the family by pretending he was dead and that's not even all the examples I can list from the top of my head. But sure, one storyline that is later addressed, and that Ollie apologizes for and IS FORGIVEN FOR is the problem. Outweighs everything.

[give-grian-rights]

i've gotten dropped into the DC franchise (primarily a handful of animated series) pretty hard, and i just fucking said to my self "god, i think nearly every portrayal of Barry Allen is great, he's literally such a great guy-" and then remembered that the character is currently being played in Cinema by a misogynist with kidnapping allegations

[shyjusticewarrior]

At some point "fanfic can be as good as professional writing" became "fanfic should be as good as professional writing" and that's caused major damage to fandom spaces.

[mordenandmerry]

Broke: devaluing the female love interest because she “gets in the way” of a gay ship

Woke: shipping a gay ship so that the female love interest can be gay with me

[webshood]

not gonna elaborate it rn, but people diminishing Jason's experience with homelessness, malnourishment, childhood abuse and neglect, because he got adopted by a billionaire while also hcning Tim Drake to be abused and starved by his wealthy parents is rooted in racism and classism

[casscainmainly]

Okay gonna analyse some common Duke beliefs just for quick and easy reference. Some of these are up to interpretation (as indicated), but these are some common things I see that aren't quite accurate to Duke as a character.

Claim: Duke started We Are Robin

True or false: False. Alfred started We Are Robin, and the entire core cast of We Are Robin was already there before Duke.

Claim: We Are Robin is a gang

True or false: kind of tricky? They're technically a gang in the most general sense of the word, but 'gang' has racial implications that I think people gloss over (We Are Robin is primarily composed of kids of colour). Movement is a much better term, and We Are Robin doesn't self-identify as a gang to my knowledge.

Claim: Duke led We Are Robin

True or false: tricky. While Robin War has him as the leader, for the majority of Duke's time in We Are Robin he does not give orders or act like a leader at all. We Are Robin generally doesn't have a leader. Duke certainly has leadership abilities, but WAR is not the best showcase of them. Up to personal interpretation though.

Claim: Duke is a Wayne

True or false: False. Duke is not adopted.

Claim: Duke is intimidated/scared of any Batfamily member

True or false: FALSE!!! There is unfortunately some horrible comic writing, but for the VAST MAJORITY of Duke's appearances he is not scared of any Batfam member. He's certainly not afraid of Damian, Jason, or Cass.

Claim: Duke can emit light

True or false: probably?? His powers are constantly in flux and he develops new abilities all the time, so who knows. But he is much more likely to use light to turn invisible/manipulate his perception of light than attack with them (for which he can use his shadow powers). Up to personal interpretation/fun headcanons.

Claim: Duke jumped out of a cop car

True or false: True, but it's a Tom King comic and he's written horribly in it. If you want another example of him not being the 'sane one', I recommend using the time he got shot by a bullet and thought about how baller it was.

Claim: Duke is new to the Batfamily and doesn't know their dynamics

True or false: Please stop 😭 It's been like a decade since his introduction there's no need to make him the clueless newbie. Also he's a fiercely intelligent detective who makes references to Jason's daddy issues, there's no way he's still in the dark about most of their relationships.

Claim: Duke tends to obey Bruce's orders

True or false: FALSE. Duke sneaks out even during his training days, and for the most part operates independently. He generally has a grudge against authority of all kinds.

Claim: Duke is very sunshine-y, bright, and optimistic

True or false: False. I get where this one is coming from (sunshine boy is cute I love it), but while his powers are light-based, his personality is not. He's pragmatic, rude, skeptical, and often disillusioned. He is an optimist in the sense that he believes in community and change, but he's nowhere near a bright, bubbly kid.

Claim: He's the normal one AND/OR he's just as crazy as the other bats

True or false: Both of these are somewhat false. Duke is not the normal/sane one, he's literally a vigilante how would that make sense. But he also thinks of himself as more normal than the others (at least at one point). Duke discourse should move on from this debate, both these statements obscure what makes Duke unique and interesting.

Claim: Duke designed his Signal outfit

True or false: False. This isn't really a belief I just see people assuming he designed it, he didn't though, Bruce gave it to him. There's no indication he had a hand in the design. Bruce actually gave him TWO designs, I think Bruce just loves giving him outfits tbh.

Claim: Duke's parents are still under the Joker toxin

True or false: Technically false. His mom was healed in Urban Legends #19, but Duke's sporadic appearances mean this was never really followed up on. I have no clue what happened to Doug. Up to DC to SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!!!

Claim: Anything to do with his portrayal in WFA

True or false: False. Literally everything. (The only, and I do mean only, thing to take from WFA is his interactions with Damian)

Okay that's all, I hope that was helpful to anyone out there!!! There are tons of things here that are my interpretation only of course, the best way to get to know Duke is to read his comics. We Are Robin and DC Rise of the Power Company is waiting for you <3333.

[thesulkycroissant]

Something about Bruce going back to make sure a ghost is aware that her tormentor is dead so she can be released

[randomasfuk]

Okay, something that’s been pissing me off recently is the whole “Dick Grayson is a whore” thing. He absolutely is not. He has explicitly said so in the past (see the panels at the bottom of the post), and what pisses me off even more is people dismissing criticism of this as just “fanon mischaracterization.”

Him being portrayed as a whore is becoming canon now. I could be wrong on the timing, but it definitely seems more prevalent since he was canonized as Romani. And, conveniently, that just so happens to align with a massive Romani stereotype. Maybe it’s a coincidence, but it’s annoying as hell, whether it’s fanon or canon.

It’s the same way people reduce Damian to some rabid, violent creature that bites—another stereotype, this time about Arab people. It’s been pissing me off lately.

Tim and Bruce are the family whores, not Dick. In canon, he’s attractive and charismatic, but that doesn’t mean he’s a slut.

Can we please, for the love of whatever the hell you believe in, stop copy-pasting racial stereotypes onto characters? I don’t care if it’s unintentional. Stop it.

[glitter-stained]

"why does fanon love making Jason care about his goons when he kills them in canon" I'm sorry to tell you that Jason's Robin run is a significant work for his characterization. And that Willis Todd was in fact a goon. Like, that's a significant thing that happened.

(jaybin fans exist not every Jason fan is a hardcore UTH fan who thinks everything about Winick's writing is pure and just and the right way)

[moranamorena]

If I see one more person saying that Jason Todd's fans only like him because they don't read comics I'm gonna lose it

Dude, they're the only ones who actually read his comics, especially his Robin runs. The amount of times I saw Jason's hater making a statement about him that isn't true to most if not any canon is riddiculus And I saw the even higher amount of people arguing and disagreeing with Jason's fans over facts based on actual panels from comics

If you hate Jason for being and angry Robin who disobeyed Bruce and got himself killed you already lost an argument

If you hate Jason for being a stupid brute who stands out only because he kills people and uses guns you already lost an argument

If you hate Jason for "stealing" from other characters and not having story elements unique to his own character you already lost an argument

Jason Todd fanbase is as intense as it is because OTHER COMIC BOOK READERS AND BATFAMILY STANS DON'T READ HIS COMICS

It's really frustrating to have other fans claiming you don't know your favourite (or one of your favourites) characters when you know for a fact that you had read so much more about him. And that you have to witness his character being butchered by both the new comic writers and people in fandom over and over again

[galaxymagitech]

Sorry, but I do actually think it’s possible to be a Batman fan without reading any comics. The comics are super fun! I encourage people to give them a try. Never underestimate the power of a universe you care about to get you to read a media you normally don’t enjoy. But there are:

Three seasons of Batman: The Animated Series

Three seasons and one movie of Batman Beyond

Three seasons and one movie of Batman (1966)

58 DC Animated Original Movies, many of which include Batman or Batman characters

Over a dozen live-action Batman-related movies, including the very popular Christopher Nolan trilogy and The Batman (2022)

Many novelizations of comic arcs, including No Man’s Land and Court of Owls

Batman video games, including Arkham Knight (and related Arkham video games) and Gotham Knights

Look, I get that the comics are the source material, the original, but…

Are you really going to say someone who has watched BtAS ten times and has an encyclopedic knowledge of it is “not a Batman fan”?

What about someone who is obsessed with Batman (1966) and knows all the details about it and has cosplayed as Eartha Kitt’s Catwoman?

Or someone who repeatedly plays through Arkham videogames and rambles on Tumblr about them?

Or a fanfiction writer for The Batman (2022) who has watched the movie more times than they can count and written 200k words of fanfic for it?

Or someone who has religiously watched every single DCAOM, most several times?

Or someone who is completely obsessed with that one Batman radio play and makes fanart for it?

Face it. Batman is a multimedia phenomenon. If you can be a fan without watching the movies, you can be a fan without reading the comics. I understand that it’s frustrating when someone who has no grounding in any canon starts talking about something being “out of character,” but…I find it ridiculous for people to claim that you can’t be a Batman fan if you haven’t read Batman comics. Because you can be. Unless in those scenarios I described above everyone is just a fan of Ratman instead.

[thecorefrisk]

Look… gender bending a character is not bad. In fact, it can allow for discussion to be made on what would have happened if that character were to be born of a different sex than they are in the original material.

The problem lies in the fact that often when people do genderbend a character, they do it with the INTENTION of shipping them with a character that would have been of the same sex if not for them gender bending them or to ‘ship’ them with an audience (or concept of a person that represents an audience) when it’s likely that they would have been of the same sex if not for the gender bending.

This action furthers the narrative that it would have been ‘wrong’ or ‘immoral’ if they had kept the character’s original gender as it was— even in a situation in which changing the character’s sex did nothing for the story’s/piece of media’s narrative nor its message. They could have been kept as their original gender and nothing would have changed.

For example, when I was an active part of the BNHA fandom, I saw a lot of ‘fem!Deku’ content here and there. And often, this sexualized the character and had this originally male character be put in either romantic or sexual relations with one of (or many of) their classmates, who were male more often than not.

And a more ‘modern’, or up to date example, would be if someone were to gender bend Stephanie Brown or even Barbara Gordon in order to write ‘x reader’ content about them. When you’re writing for a mainly female audience, gender bending an originally female character into being male for said audience comes out as insanely homophobic.

(And was apparently only a sign of their morbid amounts of insanity and rather lacking amount of intellect because wow. ‘Illegal people’ do not exist as crossing the border ‘illegally’ is no more of a civil offence than jaywalking is and sorry, if you’ve ever jaywalked then goodbye to you I suppose!

Good grief.)

It is not the fact that they are gender bending them that is the issue. It is the intention behind that act.

I am not saying that the intention is always to be explicitly homophobic, but it’s a very big sign that you might be.

[the-fictional-wife]

I already knew this bitch @luv-lock was weird when they hardcore gender bent all female characters with a fem reader (ooo im so soft and woke I'm so scared). You can always tell in someone's vibe when they're a right-wing ignorant asshole who finds even being LGBTQ "woke" because they were confused and curious when they were younger. Not even mentioning they sling the r-slur at people as an insult and spew misinformed lies about America's state right now....while not even being American.

Anyways, this isn't a trauma competition of "who has it worse", fuck ICE, fuck you trump and fuck all you right wing losers who are nothing but hateful and legit kill off LGBTQ, black people and people of color alike, and support the illegal detainment and deportation of immigrants- REGARDLESS of citizenship status (yes they're taking citizens and people in their court appointments too shocker). Same with you fucks who support ICE, police, and military harming peaceful protesters as well as the damn press.

People's human rights are being infringed on here and being taken into centers where no one knows what's fully happening to them and you bitches wanna sit up here talking outta your ass- you shitted more on democrats then half of America who voted that man in, the world is sick even in fanfics.

[who-always-pays-their-taxes]

Why do you (as in the royal you) as a member of a fandom,, seem to believe that things need to be,,, canon??? in fanfiction??? why would? that ever be? if you wanted to read pure canon, you could,,,, idk,,, read canon? pick up the source material,,, and if you wanted to read pure canon fanfiction just search the ‘canon compliant’ tag. that’s how ao3 works. so silly.

[thebatsandthebugs]

my 'hottest' dc take is that dickbabs and dickkori are both interesting, complex ships which can be written to have one be endgame/one break up without reducing/mischaracterising any of the characters involved. It literally comes down to personal preference on which you like better. Can we stop fighting (and give babs and kori solo runs please)