#RHATO 2011

[thecruellestmonth]

Does the mass-murdering criminal Jason "Red Hood" Todd canonically support the death penalty?

No, I can't find evidence that Red Hood supports the death penalty.

There is a difference between murder (illegal) and state-sanctioned killing (legal). Red Hood commits unlawful homicide. The death penalty is lawful homicide. Jason is a murderer. The death penalty is not legally considered murder. Commissioner Jim Gordon is a decorated military veteran, not a murderer.

Committing violence ≠ wanting the government to have the right to commit that violence. Batman and his allies brutalize criminals; they don't necessarily support the state brutalizing criminals. Red Hood kills some criminals; Red Hood doesn't necessarily support the state killing criminals. Catwoman doesn't necessarily support the state committing burglary. Et cetera.

The death penalty is administered by the criminal legal system. Jason does not like the criminal legal system (see some of his run-ins with the police). He grew up as an impoverished child who didn't believe in the system, he was raised by Batman to believe that vigilantes can make a difference that the system can't, and he became an adult criminal who still doesn't believe in the system. He's not interested in using the criminal legal system. He isn't interested in giving more powers and privileges to an abusive system that has wronged him and the people he cares about.

When Jason started up his villain business, the death penalty was legal in Gotham City. (See Detective Comics #644, The Joker: Devil's Advocate, Batgirl 2000 #19, Punchline #1.) The death penalty was also in place during his Robin run. Jason didn't argue in favor of the state having the right to kill prisoners, and the death penalty never addressed his complaints about the status quo.

Jason has rescued people from wrongful* imprisonment and the death penalty. Again, based on his own firsthand experiences, he has many reasons to believe that the system is broken. *Some of us would argue that locking any people in prisons tends to be wrongful and inhumane by default, but we could choose to accept the standard premises of crime fiction as without endorsing it as moral instruction.

Jason Todd is a criminal: a mass murderer, a terrorist, a villain. He does evil. He doesn't represent or support the legal system. He probably has the least political capital out of all the Batfamily-associated characters. He doesn't promote the death penalty. He commits murder—illegally, as a criminal, state-unapproved.

Some recent comics related to the topic:

Gotham Nights (2020) #11 "One Minute After Midnight", written by Marc Guggenheim

Red Hood and Nightwing team up to investigate the case of a man wrongly convicted of murder and sentenced to be executed. Both of them disapprove of how the broken criminal legal system botched this case.

Joker: The Man Who Stopped Laughing #8 (2023), written by Matthew Rosenberg

"You familiar with Hannah Arendt's concept of Schreibtischtäter? Desk murderers? It's people who use the state to kill for them, so they don't have to get their hands dirty."

[evasive-anon]

jason todd inspo for dpxdc

So I know not everyone is gonna read through comics so here is some dope Jason panels that I think absolutely SCREAM danny phantom xover material.

After coming back from the dead, Talia dropped Jason off with the All-Caste which is like a sect of warrior monks who do magic.

The All-Caste have a nexus chamber that can go ANYWHERE and ANYWHEN and looks absolutely insane and is filled with door ways. It absolutely screams GZ/Infinite Realms material. Jason has been in it multiple times both when learning magic bullshit as a teen and again as Red Hood when trying to track down The Untitled after they killed off all the All-Caste.

Below is a pic of Jason just after he left the All-Caste after getting kicked out and I do think his hair looks like Danny's here so I'm dropping it in for all those ppl who like writing fics where Jason is Danny's universal variant.

I have not found any panels where Jason actually has glowing green eyes but he does glow with occult symbols when meditating.

If you don't know about the All-Blades then just know are fire swords Jason can summon and use to destroy evil. Also they come with a mystic disembodied voice talking about balance and shit sometimes. They're powered by your soul so you can do some real weeb shit with that.

Bonus, sometimes Crime Alley or Gotham are referred to as Jason's Haunt and I think that's beautiful.

[punkeropercyjackson]

As someone who's read all of Jason's comics and watched all his adaptions,it's absolutely bonkers to me that most of his other stans say he has no well-written relathionships either platonically or romantically.Like hello???Him and Rose's t4t goth4goth mean4mean excellence and lowkey relathionship anarchy post-breakup?Him and Duke's easy development into chaotic and funny yet cute and healthy adoptive brotherhood?Artemis and his' bickering old married battle couple dynamic?His and Stephanie's turning into the 'grumpy goth boy and bubbly pastel girl but found siblings' trope?Dana giving black women who simp for Jason our rights while still being an interesting character in her own right?With the exception of That One Scene From Lost Days We Shan't Speak Of that's been decanonized and admitted as a mistake by it's writer,Talia being the ultimate mama bird to him as soon as he got ressurected?Do these iconic bonds mean NOTHING to y'all??????I get it,Rhato ruined Roy and Kory and that's why in my rewrite of it the N52 dosen't exist so he gets an actual team instead of just stealing Dick's friends but it's mighty curious how you usually see this take in reference to him not being ultra close to Tim or Slade or whoever's fave of the person saying it and when it comes to romances specifically,it's pretty much always a call for Jayr*y despite Jason borderline verbally abusing Roy in almost all their interactions.I also see how this may be a shock to most people in fandoms but characters roles in stories don't stop 'counting' because they're not white dudes.Jason attracts poc and girlbosses both in-universe and from ours,i thought we all knew this

@desi-pluto @moonage-gaydream @cottoncandyspikes @insomniac-jay @julieemarine @honeypotsworld

[bat-kidsarebi-kids]

besties do i have news for you!! dc has in fact not forgotten that Jason and Roy give a shit about each other!!

look at them. they’re boyfriends best friends.

I know it’s just because i’m starved for new JayRoy content and have been for years but oh my god. oh my fucking god. oh my goddddddddd.

[barbie0303]

Ok, so Ollie and Roy´s relationship super sucked in the New 52, but I actually found adorable this panel of Ollie laying his hand on top of Roy´s head

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #36

Only to be ruined when Ollie calls Roy an idiot :/

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #36

[roseworth]

how do you feel about roy’s characterization in new52 outlaws? i’m on the fence about reading it and have heard mixed reviews

ok i am going to be honest. i have been refusing to read it because ive heard he has bad characterization ffhdkjfhaksakjf

from the few issues of it that ive read it is. Not Good. first of all they changed his drug addiction to an alcohol addiction which.. is just wrong because addictions are not interchangeable??? also they make him have a rough relationship with ollie which i Hate because they have always had a good relationship :( and it kinda just like,, separated him from his friends and family to make him hang out with jason ??? like idk . hes not close with the titans or ollie or dinah and instead its kinda just jason :/

but characterization-wise, they make him a lot dumber to make jason seem smarter. like this is a full grown man that has been fighting crime since he was a child but rhato says "hmm.... jason needs to help him out in every situation." it just makes him a lot more helpless and being like "wow jason is so so cool 😍" which. ugh

this post explains it a lot better than i ever could, the post is kinda long but basically, rhato roy is not roy harper and if youre looking for good roy characterization that is not where to look :(

[redwraiths]

the level of euphoria i feel when i read red hood comics and deathstroke appears so i am once again able to shove orion into the story

[mysterycitrus]

part of what irritates me so much about fanon interpretations of roy harper in specific is that they feed into like…. thee most degrading stereotypes about (recovering) addicts

like i must emphasise that roy had a lot of bad writers circa 2011 but nothing was more reductive that rhato — which reduced him to a sidelined sidekick and removed his autonomy? his self-conviction? i don’t trust dc to empathetically discuss addiction with any nuance but removing any pre-existing characterisation and changing the substance he was addicted to was a particular kind of dehumanisation. roy being an addict was an important part of his narrative character arc, sure, which is why it was so important that he was a good leader! a trusted hero! he had strong relationships and was trusted by others, especially younger heroes who looked up to him! he wasn’t afraid to vocalise what he thought! other people trusted his judgement!

there are also three (aside from ollie) foundational pillars to his adult life — lian, donna troy, and dick grayson— and trying to replace them wholesale with a single person who had practically no existing relationship with him was extremely silly and ruined everything for both characters forever

[disniq]

i can't believe bruce yellow wallpapered jason

Hi Anon! I know you're probably being facetious, but genuinely it makes absolute and total sense to me given Bruce's history with Jason!

For all of Bruce and Jason's recurring physical beat-down fights, it's the psychological and emotional abuse that's always felt more insidious to me.

This is the man who purposely tricked Jason into returning to the scene of his own brutal murder in the hopes that he would relive his own death so Bruce could figure out how he came back.

Batman and Robin (2011) #20

This is the man who hits Jason harder than he hits the Joker. Who beats his son so badly he can't even fire a gun a month later, and then only shows up to say "you're not welcome in Gotham, your best friend is dead, and you need the occasional beating to keep in line, but we have each other's backs".

RHatO (2016) #25 and #27

This is the man who sent Jason undercover with literal, actual, known villains conducting extremely unethical science experiments, almost getting Jason killed multiple times. And then, when Jason raised concerns about them letting this operation continue, Bruce ignored him, brushed his concerns aside, and treated Jason as though this was all his fault.

Task Force Z #4 and #6

Not to mention Bruce's habit of consistently *starting* fights with Jason and then twisting it around to blame Jason, to make him think it's his choice and not Bruce's.

Task Force Z #6 | Catwoman #57 | RHatO #25

So, yeah.

I can believe Bruce Yellow Wallpapered Jason

[lacrimosathedark]

I need the comic book fanfic writers to be made very aware of something:

Roy Harper is the only one to EVER call Jason Todd "Jaybird".

This isn't a family name that he picked up on, or that Roy made and the family has adopted. Roy is literally the only person to call him that. Dick doesn't, Babs doesn't, Bruce doesn't, nobody but Roy does.

The others call him Jay sometimes, in old comics Jace was said a few times (which I actually like and wish people would use literally at all). Bruce has said "Jay, lad" like once and fandom adopted him calling Jason "Jaylad" but that's not horribly egregious so I tolerate it. Dick occasionally calls Jason "little wing". That's about it.

Jaybird is very specifically a Roy Harper thing.

(Honestly yall better appreciate me actually looking back in RHATO 2011 because BOY do I hate this comic. It's not only poorly written, but in my opinion, ugly as fucking sin and I need to burn my retinas now)

That is the first instance of Jason ever being called "Jaybird", and it becomes a lowkey running gag that Roy calls him that and Jason "hates" it.

And then we get this post Heroes In Crisis

This whole thing may have been poorly written because, again, Scott Lobdell sucks, but the intent is to evoke intimacy to make Roy's death hurt. Jason is supposed to have just lost his best friend and was told by Bruce Wayne whose last appearance in his life was beating the shit out of him and, oh yeah, who saved Jason? Roy Fucking Harper.

In addition to the fact that Roy only left Jason to get help for himself. He was supposed to be in rehab/therapy, somewhere safe, and he fucking died because of handwavy Speedforce shenanigans or whatever it's been retconned to now because nobody liked Heroes in Crisis. Roy was supposed to be getting better and he died ostensibly in an accident. Like if that's not the worst fucking bullshit--

This scene of Jason calling himself by what he deems a stupid nickname would mean jack shit if everyone and their goddamn cat called him "Jaybird". But it being a Roy-specific thing makes this scene distinctly about Jason being vulnerable and actively grieving. It's such a cliche trope, and a real coping mechanism, to call a deceased loved one's phone just to hear their voice in their inbox message again. He probably has no thoughts that Roy will ever hear it so this is just for him, but he's letting himself accept this dumb nickname Roy gave him now because it was Roy that gave it to him and Roy is fucking dead.

Like, in fairness it probably frustrates me more because I ship the two and parallel it with Oliver calling Dinah "pretty bird", but like...even as just a cheeky friend nickname, nothing romantic behind it, having everyone else call Jason that feels wrong. Especially his family who he still has so many issues with and, like it or not, he's closer to Roy than literally any of the Bats at this point.

This isn't the only time I've seen the fandom do this (this being giving nicknames between characters that just don't exist); Jason calling Tim "replacement" is absolutely rampant in the fandom and I hate that too because he never calls Tim that, and refers to him as such like once. I have a whole list of actual nicknames and insults these motherfuckers call each other somewhere, but maybe another time.

In short

STOP HAVING EVERYONE CALL HIM JAYBIRD.

Thank you and have a nice day. <3

[thecruellestmonth]

Jason Todd + dogs

Gotham City Villains Anniversary Giant #1 "Bird Cat Love"

DCeased: Unkillables #1 // Batman and Robin (2011) #35 // Batman (2016) #33

Red Hood: Outlaw (2016) #35

RHatO (2011) // RHatO (2011) // RHatO (2016) #4

Robins (2021) #6

+ bonus kitties

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures #43

Scribblenauts Unmasked: A Crisis of Imagination #12

[evasive-anon]

Jason catching hands immediately when introduced to the all caste

Jason is such a little shit and Ducra took none of it. I fucking love the obnoxious grandkid and hardass grandmother vibe they had going. She calls him a fucking yutz- I CAN’T.

TFW you just wanna introduce your kid to a friend so they’ll babysit for a bit but your child is being the biggest pain the ass. F’s in chat for Talia fr. (Ignore Talia being whitewashed here, DC will never let us have everything in any comic.)

[striveattemptfail]

rhato (2011) #0 vs batman (1940) #427 vs wfa #96

just comparing some mother-son hugs whenever jason's involved 😭😭😭

wfa #96

if i had the energy i would 100% recolour this as catherine and jason (ಥ‿ಥ)

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

PROPAGANDA

STARFIRE (DC COMICS) (CW: Sex Trafficking)

1.) She is frequently put down in the og 80s comics due to being more expressive and open with her emotions, and ever since the og she has frequently been painted as just eyecandy (ignoring her sexual trauma) when her character is so incredibly complex. Special mention goes to red hood and the outlaws (2011) (written by a sexual harasser) for just terrible stand out awful reasons which will be seen in the below photos and her 2015 solo for combining her vapid portrayal there with her cartoon quirkiness to culminate in a trash comic that is just her basically being the born sexy yesterday trope.

2.) 2011 reboot, in RHATO she was turned into a walking fetish by retconning most parts of her character and erasing all personality displayed in the past 30 years of comics. in that iteration she is only interested in sex and is dehumanised and ‘exotic’. she ‘forgot’ all her past relationships because she doesn’t care about them only sex. her only purpose in that book is as a powerhouse and a sex/love interest for one of the male characters who view her as a trophy because she used to date someone he dislikes (in this continuity) let’s also not forget that she was first created just to be a love interest and although she did grow into a hood character at some point, she is treated horribly time and time again by writers because of conflicting ships. she’s written as a ‘vixen’ as opposed to another ‘good girl’ female character who is shipped with the same guy in canon

3.) Her original characterization was fairly decent, however it still had her stuck in relationships with men that weren't very good for her and had overtones of racism with how she was written. Post that her characterization was slowly chipped away at, some writers with harder sledgehammers than others, culminating in current writing where she's dismissed as "just a fling" to her original counterpart (Dick Grayson) to prop up a different ship (Dick Grayson/Barbara Gordon) and frequently has been used as eye candy in other comics. Simply open the first comic of Red Hood and the Outlaws, which obliterated her personality to make her associate/be subservient to the Red Hood, and you'll find plenty of panels of her appearing simply for eye candy in the boobs and butt pose for absolutely no reason. This is not the only time she's been used to cater to the male gaze (I'd argue even in her original context that was part of her appeal) but in this comic she essentially has no personality beyond "i want sex" as her memory of all past events has been erased. She's essentially just a tool for her male counterparts in the comic to bounce off of, and eye candy to bring more male readers in. She does eventually get more storylines later on, but that doesn't excuse the bad writing she was put through. Her own solo series also cashes in on her sex appeal, by infantilizing at the same time as drawing her in skimpy outfits + more boobs and butt poses galore to go for the "born sexy yesterday" misogynistic trope.

NYA SMITHA (LEGO NINJAGO)

1.) it would take way too long to talk abt all of it but like… in the series colors are very important for characters and everyone has their own color but from episode one for the next 8 seasons her colors were specifically tied to her brother.. and then when she finally got her own ninja outfit she wasnt given her own color the colors were specifically red for her brother and blue for her boyfriend. shes constantly diminished to just the men who are closest to her. also every time she meets someone they Must become a love interest (including the man who was significantly older than her and trained her to use her powers. and also she was kidnapped and forced to marry a thousand year old djinn (when she was like SIXTEEN) because she looked a little bit like his dead wife. weird as hell.)

2.) she was given NOWHERE NEAR as much development as the guys (except for the bullshit love triangle!!!) despite being at the time leagues more competent than her brother in their debut, was damsel’d so he had to Save The Girl. again, the Bullshit Love Triangle. even after she got her own “thing” she was just boiled down to “oh look it’s the girlboss!! she’s just as good as the guys!!” while still getting sidelined. as time went on and flanderization increased she pretty much just became The Team Girl, and she was ALREADY The Team Girl!!! they left her behind with the fuckin grandpa!!!

3.) Left behind to take care of the kid simply because “she’s the girl” for the first season and a half, is fairly blatantly excluded from the team, is believed to be unable to protect herself or others by antagonists throughout the series, and repeatedly dehumanized and referred to exclusively as “girl.” When the ninja are public figures in season 6 she is shown dealing with misogyny from the press in several ways, and in her focus season (Seabound) she speaks out against how she’s been treated as an object rather than a person. All around a girlboss who deserves better

[boyfridged]

see, the thing is that (up until countdown at least) there’s no symmetry in jay and bruce's respective ways of grieving.

jay is perpetually trapped in the bargaining stage of grief, trying to reach out to bruce from beyond death.

bruce is way past this. he has settled into a quiet, passive type of mourning, devoid of hope for a reunion. and to stay in this state, he had to necessarily disregard jay’s true image – an image of an earnest, bright child, his son. the memory of jay has been reconstructed in his mind a thousand times and sealed in a folder labeled as “soldier” (or even just a personal failure). it's ugly. it's unfair. it's a coping mechanism.

so to me, the issue isn't that bruce wants his dead, sweet little boy back – the issue is that he barely remembers him. if he did, maybe he would be willing to take a leap of faith and search for that person in jason who came back. but he's not even trying to reconcile the image of 15yo jay with red hood – or rather, maybe the image of a volatile kid that he created in his grief fits with the red hood a bit too accurately. maybe it's a bit too convenient. it works perfectly well for his own self-preservation and sanity, to think that jason has been doomed from the beginning.

jason, on the other hand, is cursed with remembering. one of the very sparse concepts that i found interesting in rhato was when in #3 (2011) jason chose to give up on his happiest memory – skipping patrol to watch a movie with bruce. maybe it's because recalling these tender, sweet moments is what gives him hope, and motivates him to keep bargaining and trying to reconcile with bruce. and bargaining with reality is exhausting. the readers and jay know that it's a lost cause – both because neither bruce nor jay are the same people anymore, but also because, ironically, batman, the symbol of hope, doesn't have any left when it comes to getting his son back. bruce, in his grief, essentially closed the door. jay, in his grief, is banging on them.

[damianbugs]

For the ask game, #3 for Jason Todd??

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

now i do want to preface this by saying my least favourite canon thing about jason isn't entirely jason's fault, and can be better explained of writers just doing whatever the fuck they want or using him as a device to extrapolate a very simplified view of another character (usually bruce) (more on that later). unfortunately however, since it's a character trend that has been repeated so many times, and the question is specifically about canon, it is a big part of his character.

and so my least favourite canon thing about jason is that... he's still around. what i mean by that is: time and time again, the story sets up a problem, a conflict, one that puts jason at odds with batman and/or gotham (two things that are connected whether you like it not) — and then a massive fight. a huge fallout. hurtful words are exchanged, a couple fists, maybe an exploding building or two.

you think woah, that was harsh and unhealthy, surely we won't see them hanging out with each other anytime soon.

then, it happens again.

next story, next conflict, next fight. jason usually gets the short end of the stick, because a batman who loses to his "greatest failure" is not a batman editorial want to sell, and also because in a lineup of characters were the worth of their existence is based on the moral conjugation with other characters, its very easy and usually not a emotional problem to kick the odd one out. red hood is cool enough to fight batman and really mean it, but not cool enough to win the actual battle.

it's come to the point where just the leak of jason in a new bat story makes me roll my eyes. even today, with the leaks of batman #145, all i could think was well, here we go again i guess.

so the most irritating thing is that jason still kicks around with the batfam. if you ask me, this unfixable break between him and bruce should have been established in Under the Red Hood (i have a really long essay post about that... somewhere tumblr tags will not allow me to find). if not then, then Battle for The Cowl (as horrendous of a story that it was) should have solidified the conflict between him and the others. it's because jason is still a character with (alleged) bonds to batman and nightwing etc, that dc gives us repetitive moments like the ones in Rhato, Batman and Robin (2011), Gotham War etc.

his character has remained annoyingly stagnant for this reason. he can't ever be a character cool enough to win the battle if he's always used as the Batman Your No Kill Rule Sucks also You Made Me This Way and I Do What You Can't (proceeds to not do anything all that different) conversational piece.

i don't say all this without some irrational hope that one say someone who actually likes Jason Todd enough to think about his character in any emotional capacity takes over. i do however say this with the acceptance that the one tweet that said "Nothing fans say about Jason Todd was actually ever written on a piece of paper published by Dc comics" was very correct.

to end happily, Red Hood: The Hill is his solo series away from the others! so! here's to hoping!