#aditf

[ilostmygenderalongwithmydignity]

Just started reading A Death In The Family, and I’m coming to the conclusion that Bruce has never made a good parenting decision in his life, actually

[ditzybat]

bruce: i just want to make sure you’re safe

tim: you microchipped me like a dog!

bruce, showing affection the only way he knows how to by planting a tracker in tim’s neck: exactly, safe.

[goodoldfashionedengineer]

There are so many tragedies that come into play with Jason's death. From being doomed from the beginning by the writer, to how it happened, to no one ever finding out the truth about Sheila.

But the aspect I want to focus on is his funeral.

There were only four people attending.

Bruce, Alfred, Jim and Barbara.

Four.

This is sad in and of itself, especially considering that Bruce hadn't even contacted Dick so he wasn't there either.

But also because usually superhero funerals are big. The community comes together.

During Superman's funeral, the Justice League were carrying his casket. When Spider-Man died in the Ultimate universe, the entire church was full, with even J. Jonah Jameson attending to pay his honours.

But I think one of the best examples to compare this to is the death of Bart Allen, aka Impulse aka Kid Flash

The funeral is in a stadium. All the ranks are full, as shown in the background.

Bart was never meant to be long term, because the plan was always to bring Barry back. Bart was supposed to bridge that gap. Then sales tanked and they chose to kill him off sooner.

He was beaten to death by the Rogues.

So you have the doomed from the beginning aspect, they were both children when they were murdered, they were both in hero outfit and were both killed by a rogue/villain. And yet, Bart got this treatment of being recognised and honored by the hero community while Jason didn't. No big speech, no people coming up, telling tales or paying their last respects.

Just Bruce, Alfred, Jim and Barbara.

And you could make the argument "Oh, but Central City and Keystone love the Flash! They have a Flash museum! Even a Flash Day, honoring the Flash!"

But Gotham is also proud of having Batman. That's their protector, and Robin has been by his side for almost just as long.

[gece-misin-nesin]

Do you ever think about how horrible of a title "Batman's Greatest Failure" is? How degrading and dehumanising? Everything you achieved in life is forgotten and reduced to the way it ended.

You aren't a person. You are a failure. Your whole life is pushed aside and made a part of someone else's life story. You never mattered, if it weren't for that person you would have meant nothing at all.

Aren't you glad? Aren't you glad you are remembered as something? Even if that something is just saying your whole existence equals just to a mistake in someone's life? An old page that everyone is so desperate to forget. A lapse in judgement. A regret. The people you saved, the people you loved, what you did in life, none of that matters. All that matters is how another person was affected by your death. That is all you will ever be. Everything you did and didn't do will always be irrevocably tied to that person, for better or worse.

You are unable to exist without that person and the only way for you to exist is through his perception of you. The only way for others to see you is to look at you through his biased interpretations of who you were.

You weren't a child or a hero or a martyr or a son or a victim. All you ever were, and will be, is someone's "Greatest Failure".

[d-xs]

You know the worst part about Bruce not knowing what really happened in the warehouse, and so blaming Jason for his death, and as a result, Sheila's? It's knowing that if it were anyone else with Sheila in that warehouse, Bruce would not have rested until he figured out what really happened.

He would put on his "World Greatest Detective™️" hat and investigate the shit out of everything. No stone would be left unturned. Somehow, some way, he would uncover the exact details of exactly what went down.

But it's Jason, so he runs home to Alfred, and Alfred, forever Bruce's number one enabler goes "Welp, can't say I'm surprised. I could have told you he would get himself killed." and for Bruce, that's all he needs.

[the-ghost-of-jason-todd]

i KNOW i saw a jason todd meme like this floating around but i couldn't find it so i made a new one

[ghost-bxrd]

Hi, how about a panel where Jason screams at Batman “I never say please!” and another panel in Ethiopia where he’s just going “please dad, please…”? :))))

[dolldefaced]

other people have talked about it, but i do think it's very sad that jason's like...mental state was largely forgotten post aditf and his benching and such blamed on aggressive actions

(while that's part of it- garzonas was a fulcrum, and whether it's percieved violence/inaction or actual violence/inaction. i also think his mental health and that are connected, but that's another post)

the way it's framed in aditf is very much 'jason's going through some shit' (which, starlin's choices re: make robin less palatable to audiences are very interesting and weird but also not what im going to be talking about)

the opening of aditf - bruce is violent af. like jesus i get why they allowed it based on who they are but like. let's not pretend the movie's 'oh jason broke someone's collarbone' is in any way applicable here lmao

he even throws a guy to jason aslkhdfaslfsa he's like here kid, break this guy's face

like no obviously the catalyst was bruce worried about jason's mental health (and then bungling it up so fucking bad.........my dude........lock your doors or smth)

it's just. man. i wish this narrative could have more space and impact and not just 'wowza jason was violent' (okay even if he was i wonder where he learned that from......surely not mr traction and dental work up there.......!)

[72votes]

Tʜᴇ Kɪʟʟɪɴɢ Vᴏᴛᴇ

Thirty-five years ago, DC Comics opened a phone poll to kill Batman's child sidekick, Robin.

The poll was open to paying callers in the U.S. and Canada for a window of 35 hours, starting on 15 September 1988 at 9AM EST. There were two premium-rate phone numbers—one for Robin's survival, and one for Robin's death. Each paying caller could call multiple times. The results were decided by a margin of 72 votes out of a total 10,614 votes—the difference was just under 0.68%.

Now you decide.

KILL ROBIN

Jerry Smith of Covington, Kentucky claims to have sold his Mercedes-Benz to pay for votes to kill Robin

"Who Killed Cock(y) Robin? I Killed Cock(y) Robin" article by Glen Weldon (2008)

"1-800-DEAD-ROBIN" autobiographical comic by Tony Wolf (2015)

"We killed Jason Todd" feature by Matt Markman (2021)

SAVE ROBIN

Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), a noted Bat-fan and scholar, denounced the episode as a "Roman gladiator-like readers vote."

"I loved him [...] I personally voted for him to live 100 times, and my mom flipped when she saw the phone bill," says magazine writer Savas Abadsidis.

MJG6 said: I was dead broke, working my way through college, but I voted. My first job was at a comic book store, making me an OG fan girl, I guess, and I encouraged people to vote to save him. [...] Because killing a teen, in a role kids are supposed to identify with, that was just sick.

Further Reading

"A Death in the Family, or: How DC Comics Let a Phone Vote Kill Robin" via r/HobbyDrama

"Living Dead Boy: Jason Todd vs. The Culture That Killed (and Resurrected) Him" on Women Write About Comics

"The Vote to Kill Robin" - trivia, misconceptions, opinions by comic-commentary

Some fan letter columns from Jason's later times as Robin

No Birds Allowed: Batman without Robin

"A lot like Robin if you close your eyes": Displacement of meaning in the Post-Modern Age by Mary Borsellino, an essay on dead Robins, sexism, and classism

🦞 The Tale of Larry the Lobster 🦞

Submitted arguments below:

Kill Robin

Anonymous propaganda IN FAVOR of killing the lobster the Robin!

I love Jason Todd. I love his post-crisis Robin days, I love his sense of justice and his adorable love of learning and his silly curly bangs! I say this to emphasize that I don't want him killed out of any dislike of the character.

I want him dead out of a love for storytelling that gets to stick to its guns and doesn't pull its punches. In context of the poll we readers have just seen Dick Grayson get kicked out of the role due to Bruce's fear of him getting hurt, then he turns around and gets a new Robin anyways because he misses him! I really like that Bruce is being messy and hypocritical! Let that have some real consequences please!

If there were no real consequences then Dick got shoved out of being Robin for what? Hairbrained overprotective worry? Why even change the way he graduated into being Nightwing so much then or heck why even kick him out in the first place?

One might argue that we haven't even given this Robin proper time to develop, that instead he might be taken in new and interesting directions as his own unique Robin shaping the mantle into a legacy rather than just something that was Dick's. I admit this is a very good point, and we are cutting off some possible interesting avenues. As I mentioned, I do like this character! But are we really going to get that?

If DC is already prepared to toss him out of this mortal coil and through the pearly gates after such a short while, do we really think we're going to get much more love and care applied to him?

I say let's roll the dice for something new! May the comics world and all these characters have to deal with the ramifications for many years to come!

Save Robin

robin’s death (and subsequent resurrection) is, frankly, an insult to robin fans of that era. to want to see this child get killed in a brutal manner for no apparent reason, to see jason essentially removed from the narrative so batman could go back to being gritty and depressed—this is awful to me. he hadn’t even been robin for very long!

but that’s not why he should’ve lived.

the resurrection of jason todd as the red hood was narratively interesting enough that it kept most fans of the original jason hooked, and it still does! he has become a prime example of a trauma survivor: his death changed him, and those who loved him have difficulty accepting that.

but there is no resolution to that story, nor was there a resolution to jason’s tenure as robin. dick chose to leave robin behind and take on a new mantle. tim, steph, both had robin taken away from them (and let’s forget about how tim is still robin, because that doesn’t matter right now). damian’s role as robin conflicts with his misconception of his role in the family. everyone else has had an ending, and jason’s death…well. after his resurrection, he has somehow remained stagnant and wildly inconsistent at the same time. this applies to under the red hood too.

at its core, utrh is a deeply classist retelling of jason’s life pre-death in the family. winick makes him a villain—albeit a sympathetic one—who fucks over or kills people that he would’ve thrown himself in front of to save as robin. in utrh, the implication is that jason had always been violent and angry (and morally compromised), and that he was destined to become worse.

it sometimes feels that jason’s transition into being the red hood (and all the characterization that comes with that) was a decision dc made for shock value. just from jason’s robin run, it’s difficult to imagine jason becoming the red hood. it doesn’t feel inevitable. it’s tragic.

ultimately, i believe that jason never should have died, and that his death was a stunt by dc for its shock value. jim starlin wanted jason dead because to him a child sidekick, in a medium that was originally made for children, was “sheer insanity”. he was fridged, plain and simple.

[dukeofthomas]

This was so much fun :D

[hood-ex]

Apologies for the dumb question lol but I can't seem to remember this at ALL. Do you know what the (in universe) length of time between A Death in the Family and A Lonely Place of Dying was?

A year based on this:

[goodoldfashionedengineer]

So, most of you will probably know that Jason's use of weapons is suuuper inconsistent.

Sometimes he's using guns with real bullets. Sometimes he uses rubber bullets. Sometimes he uses no guns at all. Sometimes he uses a crowbar.

Yes, his use of guns reads to me how he stands to the batfamily - but that's not what this post is about.

Some writers just really don't want him to use guns.

But because he's a vigilante, he needs an alternative. Can be hand to hand combat. Or like the aforementioned crowbar.

(If they are using this approach, I don't think they should use any basic ass crowbar that you can get from any hardware store. Make it electric, give it paint, put glitter on it, just do something with if you think "yeah, let's give this guy who was violently beaten with a crowbar, a crowbar as his main weapon")

If you really don't want him to use guns, then just bring back the All-Blades. His magic swords which he can only summon when used on an evil person.

And yes, I am aware they are only effective against magic, but it's comics, you can write the ever the fuck you want, if they'd want to, they could change it.

Like, imagine he tracks down the next big bad, has him cornered. He is about summon the blades - but he can't.

He decides "not worth my time".

The big bad? Totally offended by this.

What do you mean not worth your time?! He has planned this for months into the finest detail and now what? You just say 'nah' and leave?!

Jason punches him. Hard.

Just because he can't summon the blades, just because he isn't deemed evil enough, doesn't mean Jason can't give him a good punch.

[gece-misin-nesin]

Just saw someone on reddit say Sheila betraying Jasoncto Joker is a dumb idea and they should have made Jason want to kill Joker alone and get caught and have him die that way. Because it would make more sense for Jason to hate Bruce then.

...

I am...speechless.

How is it possible to have a take THIS bad and say it with full confidence what the hell??

[ilyalljasonsandnon-jasonsthesame]

Dead! - My Chemical Romance + Jason Todd

[bloodyentrails]

so when they publish the 'alternative' aditf book does that mean we will get a schrödinger's jason todd situation where he's both alive and dead at the same time because they are both canon now but also he came back anyway so what does it matter now?

[dolldefaced]

did superman stop batman from killing the joker in aditf?

wellllllllll. it's complicated?

in aditf joker gains diplomatic immunity by becoming the representative of iran to the un (yeah. it's uh. bad)

so the premise is that batman can't even arrest the joker at this point, because of the diplomatic immunity. no one talks about murdering the joker and superman's arguement is 'yo this will fuck international relations. be chill'

here's where batman mentions the joker killed jason, superman is still concerned about the country, and batman saying he'll do what he has to. still no real indication clark thinks bruce is going to commit murder imo but 'thirst for vengeance' could be a sign? it's not like he can legally arrest joker atm either though

at the hotel room, bruce does sincerely consider killing the joker and argues with himself about it.

batman gives the joker a visit and tells him to turn himself in. obv he does not do this and brags about killing jason. batman finally has confirmation on this. batman leaves, joker goes to shoot him, he's gone.

yeah. sigh.

anyway. bruce seems to have settled on 'kill the joker' from these thought bubbles.

joker ofc says fuck it and releases a bunch of gas. superman breaks his gun, sucks up all the gas, and flies away to release it. batman follows the joker.

batman follows joker to a helicopter, they fight and one of the guys gets super freaked out

he shoots batman, then shoots the pilot in the head, causing the helicopter to crash

so batman has to jump out or die. he's not torn up about leaving the joker to die (esp since it seems like he still did want to kill him in the moment)

superman returns! from belching up the gas in the atmosphere ig. he saves batman, who knows if they don't find a body joker is probably alived. he's unhappy.

so i think if you just read aditf, it really doesn't look like superman tried to stop batman from killing the joker. hell i don't think he even realized bruce was willing to at that point. he just didnt want bruce interfering so politically nothing went south.

it seems more like bruce did want to kill the joker, but was stopped by some dude shooting erratically.

so where does 'superman stops batman from killing the joker' come from? fanon?

no. another comic!

in batman and superman: world's finest #7

this is post aditf, bruce has been on the rampage, superman was in space (killing some dudes ig? i don't really read superman. sorry). superman goes to see our hero in distress.

um. what.

tbf i can see the 'just there for revenge' because of the political stuff but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. 'anything you had to, to make sure i didn't harm the joker'

uhhhhhh. where????????

superman takes bruce on a tour. they talk about robin and batgirl. then go back to the topic at hand:

this is interesting. bc clark is right, 'farewell old foe' does not imply you wanted to save him at all, esp with all the previous thoughts of murder. but perhaps in hindsight bruce feels differently.

anyway.

i think you can sorta connect the two, but it's obvious there were years between these and different writers. i suspect no one wants to bring up the iran thing again, rightfully so, but it does leave out just why clark stopped bruce to begin with- so we're left with this.