#and the fate of the world vs the fate of the individual

[juyendraws]

[Limbus Company] Faust’s Development (or Lack Thereof) in Intervallo 6.5

So Murder on the WARP Express came out and uh… The suspicions I had regarding Faust’s future arc ended up being confirmed. Faust is definitely not reaching out to the truth. I didn't expect the seeds for her story to be planted so soon, but here we are. It’s real. And you're probably thinking, “Uh… WTF are you talking about?” Let me explain to you what I mean.

The message of Library of Ruina is a critical part to understanding what's going on in Limbus Company. I will tell you straight-up here and now, absolutely nobody in the fanbase knows what the hell LoR is actually about. Nobody. And it is such a shame, because it has such a great message that absolutely nobody talks about. I'd love to tell you much more about it, but that involves long explications on Jungian Psychology, the Jewish Kabbalistic Tree of Life, and the story itself, which I don't wanna subject you to yet (I am saving my esoteric lore dumping for the video scripts I’m currently working on). What I will tell you, however, is that the lessons learned by Angela and Roland in LoR are all about opening oneself to everything that is possible in life. The ways in which they do this are:

(1) To listen to one's inner world, or intuition. Don’t just blindly believe whatever someone else says. Follow your own inner voice. 

(2) To listen to one's outer world, or reason. Don't just believe whatever you want to believe. Look at the facts and be receptive to others' opinions. 

That's all you need to know for now about this particular subject. The theme of opening oneself to infinite possibilities is one that carries over from LoR to Limbus Company, and it is present in every Sinners' story. Literally all of them were/are limiting themselves in one way or another due to their flawed beliefs. And each of them is on their own journey of self-realization, or in Jungian terms, “individuation.”

The Mirror Worlds also expand on this theme. They provide infinite ways of looking at the same subject, which sounds wondrous and exciting at first, but it really just reflects what's already there. Remember Yi Sang's and Heathcliff's arcs? For Yi Sang, the Mirror reflected his already-existing potential, while for Heathcliff, the Mirror reflected his surrender to a perceived fate. Mirror World Identities may offer additional combat prowess as well as insight into the characters/worldbuilding, but they end up being quite limiting due to their usage (basically “cheating”) and very nature (as "reflections"). 

Moreover, Goethe's Faust was something that repeatedly showed up in my research on Jungian Psychology. I kept finding Faust's story referenced in articles, academic journals, as well as the book I'm currently reading called Man and His Symbols. This book was written by Carl G. Jung and some of his most trusted followers, and it legitimately explains what Project Moon's mindset was while forming the world and stories of their games (I am not even exaggerating. I have to constantly pause my audiobook and write down notes on what I'd just read because it keeps indirectly revealing PM’s intentions for the series). Anyway, in one of Joseph L. Henderson's chapters named “Heroes and Hero Makers,” he talks about how the archetype of the hero cycle is represented in many stories. An aspect of this archetype essentially revolves around the “hero vs. villain,” or in Jungian terms, the “ego vs. shadow.” The hero must face off against the dragon and triumph. It’s about the development of consciousness through the "ego" (awareness that one exists and has an identity) mastering and assimilating the "shadow" (the parts about ourselves we don’t like or don’t acknowledge deep down). This archetype exemplifies the stage that’s supposed to take place during childhood and adolescence—it’s about growing up. If the hero fails to slay the dragon, i.e. a person fails to assimilate their shadow into their psyche, they become stuck in this state of immaturity. Henderson uses Faust as an example:

“One can see this theme, incidentally, in a well-known literary hero figure—Goethe’s character of Faust. In accepting the wager of Mephistopheles, Faust put himself in the power of a “shadow” figure that Goethe describes as “part of that power which, willing evil, finds the good.” Like the man whose dream I have been discussing, Faust had failed to live out to the full an important part of his early life. He was, accordingly, an unreal or incomplete person who lost himself in a fruitless quest for metaphysical goals that failed to materialize. He was still unwilling to accept life’s challenge to live both the good and the bad” (Man and His Symbols, page 121). 

Henderson is saying that Faust is reluctant to face life’s hardships, so he lets his unconscious aspects—his shadow, or Mephistophiles—control what he does because it’s easier for him to live that way. And as a result, he remains this underdeveloped, immature person. 

In Limbus, Faust’s shadow is Mephistophiles, the reflection of her inner pride and desire to learn more. The knowledge she gains from the bus, her ability to communicate with her IDs, is incapacitating her ability to develop as a person. She’s using it as a crutch. And her overreliance on this knowledge, ironically, reveals how truly ignorant she is. The literal shadow cast in Faust’s E.G.O is her IDs for these very reasons—she is afraid of not knowing what to do.

Anyway, the reason I brought up LoR’s message and the Mirror Worlds earlier is because it is very, VERY relevant to Faust’s arc. Each of the Sinners need to reach out to all the possibilities of life. To not just blindly follow their own beliefs or the beliefs of others, but to see the truth through their own eyes, unclouded by bias. Through her use of the Mirror Worlds, Faust goes, “Well, I’m already reaching out to all possibilities! I’m following my intuition and using reason!” And she technically is, but it’s paradoxical. She is using intuition and reason… But it’s all through the use of her IDs, which are both “herself” and “not herself” at the same time. So she’s still just blindly following her own beliefs and the beliefs of others; she’s only listening to her own opinions and copying down what others say to her, all at the same time. 

I noticed this while rereading key parts of the game again. In Episode 6-25, the Sinners discover the researchers’ experiments below Wuthering Heights. Faust was utterly oblivious as to what their goals were, and Dante commented on how odd her behavior was when she finally started talking.

Later in Episode 6-44, she urges them to find out who informed Erlking Heathcliff about the Mirror Worlds, causing them to pick up on the fact that she doesn’t actually know everything.

In Episode 2 of the 3rd Walpurgis Night, Faust freezes up when asked by Dante to give a more detailed explanation on the Library. She then gives soft confirmation that she is, indeed, in cahoots with her IDs.

Murder on the WARP Express spilled everything. As a result of being separated from Mephistopheles, she is forced to be without her IDs and must figure things out on by herself. Her complete cluelessness regarding what to do demonstrates her lack of any true life experience. She acts like a newborn baby attempting to walk. However, while she is clueless, she is not helpless. She, in fact, does have the potential to grow if she puts her mind to it. Faust exhibits curiosity, ingenuity, and amiability when she must undergo the trials of the WARP train incident.

She takes interest in the perspectives of the other Sinners when asking for help. She is able to discover new things and problem-solve by herself.

Faust can learn on her own and make friends if she really wanted to.

...Unfortunately, she falls back to her dependency on Mephistopheles at the end of the story and closes herself off once again.

Faust refuses to experience any pain that could otherwise spark a realization about herself. She is harming her ability to form relationships with others, as she habitually ignores them or prevents them from giving her advice. She actively denies herself the chance to truly learn about the world and come to her own conclusions—she is impeding her own personal growth. 

Out of all the Sinners, Faust is probably the least developed as a person. Yi Sang, Ishmael, Heathcliff—even those who are about to undergo or are still undergoing their arcs such as Don Quixote, Rodion, or Meursault—are fully-formed people. Faust is not. She is still stuck at the stage of having evolved ego-consciousness while everyone else around her is already achieving the Self. She's worryingly far behind. It’s honestly really sad to watch. 

I was debating on whether or not I should make this post for a few reasons. For one, I’m unable to read Goethe’s Faust at the moment, as I am still preoccupied with my research on Jungian Psychology and Jewish Mysticism for the previous two PM games (Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina). I didn’t want to say anything too specific about Faust’s story until I read her book. Secondly, this topic is really difficult to explain without delving into the Jungian elements in the PM universe. I felt I would end up confusing people if I just came out of nowhere with this post; I initially wanted to speak more about the foundational elements before anything else. 

Nevertheless, I feel that this knowledge I had on Faust, Jung, and PM’s lore was relevant enough to share. I was SHOCKED at how accurately I had predicted Faust’s future character development. The only other person I told this to was my younger sister, and I said, “Faust basically found a loophole through the lessons Angela and Roland learned in LoR. She’s only believing whatever she wants to believe, while also only believing what other people tell her. She’s using Mephi and her IDs as a crutch… I think that’s why she’s alone a lot of the time.” AND I ENDED UP BEING RIGHT. I had to stand up multiple times while playing through the Intervallo with my sister because of how excited I was at this. 

Murder on the WARP Express demonstrates that a good understanding of the games’ themes and of Jungian literary analysis is absolutely essential to figuring out each Sinners’ arc in Limbus. Deciphering, for example, the specifics of Faust’s connection with Gesellschaft is not-so-much valuable as having a strong grasp on what aspects of her character PM is trying to explore. “What is the text communicating? How does it relate to Jung’s ideas? What is the lesson this character is meant to learn?”

That is what matters at the end of the day. 

[celaenaeiln]

thinking about some quotes i’ve read and i wanna hear your thoughts on them because i have a lot and i don’t know what to do with them.

“the day Dick Grayson turns evil is the day the universe ends, not because that day will never come but because the boy will make it come”

“Dick Grayson isn’t the universal constant of good. Dick Grayson is the universal constant of competence”

“So, having said all that, it is a few but definitely significant words that fill the contingency plan on Nightwing in case the hero of Bludhaven ever turns to the dark side. Let's hope that never happens.”

YESSSSS

“the day Dick Grayson turns evil is the day the universe ends, not because that day will never come but because the boy will make it come”

This is the truest fact I've ever heard because this is really canon.

Word for word this happened.

In one of the canon timelines Clark laser blasted Bruce under mind control.

And oh how Dick took over. You know what Luthor says?

"After all, as I've heard your father [Dick] so often quoted, 'we make the hardest decisions for those we care about the most.' Well, in his case...that has meant remaking the world."

This man has the power to single-handedly control the fate of the world.

Whatever he wants, he will make it happen.

The entirety of the justice league, all the metas, heroes, and villains too stood no chance against him.

DC vs Vampires

“Dick Grayson isn’t the universal constant of good. Dick Grayson is the universal constant of competence”

I think it's true.

Nightwing is one of the most formidable figures in DC, without fail consistently coming out on top, so if Superman is iterating that Dick's personality and essence of being is the same, then there's really no room for disagreement.

But more truly, I think he is a Nexus.

By Marvel's definition, "Nexus Beings are rare individual entities with the ability to affect probability and thus the future, thereby altering the flow of the Universal Time Stream. These beings, each referred to as a nexus, act as the keystones of the Multiverse and are crucial to its ultimate coherence and stability."

That means that the universe hinges on the actions of Dick Grayson.

Not only does he control the fate of the world but his mere existence determines what will become of it by other people:

I'd like to reiterate that Neux Beings are "the keystones of the Multiverse and are crucial to its ultimate coherence and stability."

You can still be a nexus if you turn dark. For example Lore was a dark version of Wanda Maximoff but she is still considered a nexus. So you're right in saying that Dick Grayson is a multiuniversal constant of competence.

“So, having said all that, it is a few but definitely significant words that fill the contingency plan on Nightwing in case the hero of Bludhaven ever turns to the dark side. Let's hope that never happens.”

In the easiest terms as someone put it, "hope he fucks up" is Bruce's only contingency plan against Nightwing. The man doesn't have a clear plan how to neutralize Nightwing.

His exact words are: "As a result of overanalyzing any situation, this allows Dick Grayson to overconfident and misdirected. This will make himself open to a second attack."

So the plan is basically 'Dick is too smart for his own good so we'll have to go with a lucky surprise attack.' He's literally saying 'yupppp. Let's just hope he messed up because there's nothing we can do on ouR end.' Note that Bruce doesn't even have a back up like 'the second attack didn't work? we're fucked.'

For everyone else he actually has a coherent plan in mind- do this and they will fall. But for Dick? 'I hope he messes up enough for a second attack to actually stick. Otherwise we're shit out of luck. And lives. Fingers crossed he doesn't jump to the bad side.'

Tim also confirmed he would never make a contingency plan for Dick. The only person in the world he wouldn't do one for.

He's just that formidable of a man. Even now he can easily take down the Justice League if he wanted to.

And we know that Dick has one of the strongest wills on the planet.

"I have my enhancements. I have powers. Dick Grayson...what do you have?"

A world where Dick loses his emotions is a world that would not survive.

[silver-horse]

if we are talking about the lost dream lover/daisy scenes from act 1 then we should talk about why those scenes were so good and why the loss of that storyline is so disappointing. because it's not just "oh those scenes looked better or whatever" it was a completely different character and storyline.

even though the companions pushed back way more and the whole narrative was telling you to resist the dream lover, it was somehow far more tempting. you were constantly tempted in dialogues to use your powers and if you did, you slowly started to lose yourself, the narrator said you could feel something slipping away, something you will never get back. You were giving yourself over to the fantasy, a mindflayer illusion

the game asked you during character creation "who do you dream of at night?" obviously meaning "what are you attracted to?" rather than just "you need a guardian. choose one." there is already a different implication there. I wonder how people interpret "guardian" if they don't know about the original dream lover. they might not even create someone they find tempting. a guardian sounds more like a mentor figure, rather than your ideal fantasy partner.

During early access the dream lover not only offered us power, they also showed us a tempting future where we are powerful and important and beloved and we are ruling the world. such universal temptations and desires. and we were resting on a peaceful field with the person of our dreams. it was peace in the dream world vs the real life struggle.

In the end it seemed obvious where this was leading... if you use the tadpole too much, you would have turned into a mindflayer. and whatever is left of your individuality and consciousness would have stayed in that fantasy world with your perfect fantasy partner. the mindflayer illusion forever trapped you. the song "Down by the River" was written about this fantasy dream lover. and what a banger and creative storyline this could have been. what a tragic ending! to just give up, lose yourself in the fantasy, the easy way out. choose this beautiful fantasy over the imperfect real world. and choose your perfect imaginary partner over the flawed real people, your companions. truly I mourn what an incredible storyline this could have been. It would have resonated with basically everyone.

and you would have been constantly tempted. to avoid this fate you would need to struggle constantly while the easy fantasy is dangling in front of your face with a zero difficulty ability check.

turning into a mindflayer wouldn't have been something you have the option to choose. and you can get cured no matter how much you indulged in the tadpole powers. lmao I kinda hate that there is no consequence for any of that now

[fear-ne]

personal bells hells character meta pt 1, imogen & laudna

what fascinates me personally abt laudna & imogens relationship is that truthfully, imogen’s story is way more about laudna than laudna’s is about imogen

now hear me out this is not to say in any way that laudna loves her less or that her love matters less or that imogen is less important to her than she is to imogen or anything like that

what I mean is that imogens story is about being left by her mother and being witness to her fathers abandonment. it’s about losing her faith in humanity via hearing everyone thoughts. it’s about following her mothers path but also rejecting it. and laudna is key to those things, because it is through laudna that she no longer heard the world as just noise, through laudna that she left the oppressive claustrophobia of her hometown, through laudna that she got the courage and support to untangle the mystery of her mothers disappearance and of her own powers. and then by falling in love with laudna, and watching laudna go through a similar struggle with a power that chips away at her, she is not just following in her mothers path but suddenly in a role that parallels her fathers so many years ago. so much of what pulls and tugs and creates conflict for imogen loops right back into her relationship with laudna (and her relationships with other people)

and it makes sense!! she is so young!!!

whereas sweet laudna has 30 years of traveling the world, of experiencing it, of dealing with the monster in her head. and while yes, through her relationship with imogen she is given something that is crucial to unpacking and addressing her years of trauma and isolation she never had the privilege of before (someone who loves her exactly as she is & a family to boot!!!)…so much of that struggle is innately personal. and just about laudna herself, by herself. marisha has touched on how the root of laudnas struggle is one of self worth, which is not a conflict that is solved externally or relationally with others. she will have to discover her self worth alone, intrinsically.

which is why it’s so juicy and hard to watch!! because they love each other, desperately, but being loved doesn’t make you love yourself. that’s a fight you fight almost entirely alone

vs a story that is somewhat about learning to love again and learning how to love and reconciling that and yourself with the world at large. which is much more about other people

idk not to boil this down to laudna man vs self and imogen man vs man/society/fate and other basic lit nonsense but it is just so fun to have so many fully fledged protagonists to rotate in your head both as individuals and as relationships between each other. orym next I think

[insaniquariumfish]

Some people have love for humanity, but no compassion for it, no real empathy for human beings that goes beyond the surface level and superficial. Being a misanthropist with compassion is better than being a philanthropist who thinks that there is ultimately nothing fundamentally wrong with the world, who thinks it's okay if all the horrors that humans are subjected to continue to persist, because they think "everything balances out in the end" or because "everything happens for a reason" or some shit. Like I'm sorry, but we definitely tolerate toxic positivity and allow it to masquerade as healthy optimism out of a fear of ever validating anything that seems "too edgy" way, way too much. At some point a desire to only think normal thoughts that aren't cringe turns into intellectual cowardice and moral laziness, and you've definitely reached that point if your attitude towards the abundance of heinous suffering in this world is just, "oh gee well that sure is unfortunate, but you know, ultimately life is beautiful and everything is okay, and none of that stuff really matters in the grand scheme of things, life is still inherently good, etc. etc."

If there is no form of suffering so heinous to you that you would rather vaporize the planet than allow it to continue for one more day, then I'm sorry but you are someone with a hollow and performative affection for your species. Valuing the mere presence of human minds over the actual experiential quality of the lived realities of real humans will always be oonga boonga brain shit to me, I'm sorry. Like your primal drive to support the species' survival is dampening your higher moral functioning. I would rather live in a world where there's just three clones named Sally who are immortal and always happy, than live in a world where millions of people are enduring unspeakable horrors every single day, sorry. "The beauty of life" and "the wonderful tenacity of the human spirit" mean nothing to me when there are people living their entire lives in slavery and little girls are getting gangraped to death. The fact that people regularly take their own lives because their pain is so unbearable that they'd prefer to just cease existing should tell us all we need to know about the value of quantity vs. quality on this issue. Life itself is not inherently good any more than anything else is, and more life does not automatically equal more value and goodness. If you see nothing wrong with throwing new people into this world despite knowing what it could have in store for them, what potential fates they, or their children, could endure, then you only love humanity in the way you love coffee or a good book. You love the idea of humanity. The ideal of humanity. What humanity represents to you. You love humanity as a concept, not as a collection of individual human beings with thoughts and feelings.

[shuttershocky]

Something I've been wondering for a while now, what is the thematic meaning of Shiro's "Who says a copy can't surpass the original?"

Exactly what it says on the tin.

Gilgamesh calls Archer a Faker for the exact same reason Archer tries to kill Shirou: they do not have any individuality, much less the soul of a hero, to begin with. Their existence is as a shadow of someone else.

"Emiya Shirou" does not truly exist as a person in Fate/Stay Night. Survivor's guilt and intense PTSD has hollowed him out to see himself as a tool for other people and not as a person. All of his skills like cooking, cleaning, and repairing were learned to serve others. He has no wish but to fulfill someone else's (Kiritsugu's) dream, and his ideals are borrowed from that same person. He has no real personal goals or ambitions (he tells Taiga he wants to be a superhero), and places no value at all on his own life, which is why his actions in the 5th Holy Grail War are downright suicidal.

Even when the visual novel reveals an intelligent, sarcastic, highly analytical voice inside Shirou, all of that goes flying out the window upon seeing someone's injury triggering his PTSD, creating that vacant stare and suicidal, nonsensical rationality that has had anime-onlies calling Shirou a vapid idiot for almost 20 years.

This is why the nature of the spell Unlimited Blade Works is important to understanding his character. As a rule, projection magecraft only ever copies the "image" of a weapon. It is seen as a functionally useless branch of magecraft, as a projected sword cannot copy the strength and durability of the original, much less replicate its unique powers.

But Unlimited Blade Works does. While its projections aren't perfect copies, they are able to replicate the unique powers of the original and at least a portion of their strength, turning Projection from a useless magic trick into an incredibly powerful ability.

This is because Unlimited Blade Works is a reality marble, which is a spell that takes the form of a person's internal world AKA their personhood, their self-meaning, what-have-you. On a story level, this means that Shirou's deep psychological issues which led to him de-personing himself and seeing himself as a weapon gave him an extraordinary understanding of the existence of a weapon, meaning that since this guy only ever thought of himself as a sword, when he projects a sword he doesn't just create the image of a sword, he creates a real one.

On a thematic level however, Unlimited Blade Works symbolizes how Shirou reacts to the statement that all he is, is a copycat. Even if his weapons, just like his ideals, are borrowed, the power that his blades wield is very real, just like how those copied ideals hold true meaning to him. He WILL be a hero, even if it's only chasing after the image of a true hero, or even if he only is a hero for one person.

So when Fate/Stay Night asks "who says a copy can't surpass the original?', it's asking if authenticity matters vs human effort. If a painter that makes a living by forgery creates such an immaculate copy of the masterworks that it evokes the same power as the original, does that not make the forger a master as well? If some no name ghost wields the most famous sword in the world with the ferocity and skill of the sword's equally famous owner, does that not make the ghost a swordsman of renown as well?

In that case, if you truly want to test the copy's worth, it would be vs the original, which is why in the route Unlimited Blade Works, Shirou fights Gilgamesh, the original hero and the true owner of all weapons of renown in the world, who claims every legendary name in history as mere thieves to his treasury.

This is also why Shirou defeats Gilgamesh, despite being weaker, less skilled, and a mere human vs a heroic spirit. Shirou may have been a copy, but the most original of all originals didn't want victory just as badly as the copy did, otherwise he would have taken the threat seriously enough to use Ea and win immediately. He took his natural superiority (and thus, the fight) for granted, did not put in anything but the minimum effort, and then got surprised that the other guy who worked for every advantage landed a critical hit on him.

That's when Gilgamesh says "I will admit, in this moment, you are powerful"

[phantomrens]

now that i am getting near the end of maruki’s palace and therefore my first playthrough of persona 5 royal i wanted to make a bit of a longer post gathering my thoughts, more specifically about the phantom thieves vs maruki because i think there’s an interesting parallel between them that has honestly made it one of my favourite parts of the game.

first off, i think the phantom thieves resonate a lot because at the end of the day they are just teenagers who have experienced some sort of trauma or abuse.

ryuji’s father was an abusive alcoholic and he lost out on his dream because of kamoshida.

ann’s parents were constantly moving around and she was groomed by one of her own teachers, as well as her watching her best friend try to kill herself because of it.

yusuke was used for years by his own parental figure to make art he could steal for money and is now left on his own with no experience.

makoto’s father died and she is left with her sister and an immense pressure to succeed in their footsteps.

futaba watched her own mother die and it effected her so badly she convinced herself it was her own fault for YEARS and locked herself away.

haru was also groomed by her own father into an arranged marriage she wanted no part of.

akechi (including him simply for the sake of talking about maruki later on) had a deadbeat dad who he wanted approval from and was passed between fosters for years.

sumi watched her own sister die and it traumatised her so badly that she pretended to be her so kasumi wouldn’t be dead.

morgana is a bit of a weird one because he couldn’t remember where he came from and thought he was human for so long only to find out he was created for the purpose of helping the phantom thieves, but he accepts his fate.

and ren obviously was a victim of false accusations of assault that landed him in shibuya with a criminal record.

obviously some of those are more extreme than others but they all share one thing: having an adult who has hurt or abused them in some way, or put pressure on them to succeed. this is what drives them to start/join the phantom thieves because they don’t want other people to suffer the same way they have and it’s a way to get back at their own trauma. they don’t want to change what happened to them, they want to make sure it doesn’t happen again and i think that is the fundamental difference between the phantom thieves and maruki. it’s a way of healing their own trauma for them.

maruki on the other hand wants to create a reality where abuse and trauma never happened and it just doesn’t exist. which on the surface level seems like a good idea, but digging deeper you realise there are so many issues with that, morally and ethically. yes i often wish i wasn’t traumatised and my friends weren’t hurting and want to take away their pain. but for better or for worse that trauma has shaped us and we wouldn’t be the same people without it. learning to cope and learning to heal is an important part of life and having a world where nothing ever goes wrong is so one dimensional and lifeless and strips people away of their individuality.

ren sees all his friends living in this reality and on the surface level it seems like they are happy and it’s what they truly wanted and wished for, but it almost seems too perfect and the happiness is fake.

ryuji is part of the track team again and is working towards his scholarship.

ann is spending time with shiho and is happy with her best friend.

yusuke is still with madarame and he is thriving with his art.

makoto’s father is alive and she is living as a family with him and sae.

futaba’s mother is alive and her, wakaba and sojiro are living as a family.

haru’s father is alive and is actually treating her with love and respect.

morgana is human because he thinks that that is what he was supposed to be.

they all snap out of it and realise that this reality is fake and not what they really wanted because it undoes so much of what has gotten them to that point together. maruki altering reality in such a way that people who were dead are now alive in his reality does such a disservice to the work that the phantom thieves in these situations had done to get over the trauma of their deaths themselves (especially in futaba’s case) and being able to grow and move on after mourning these deaths.

and to an extent i understand what maruki is trying to do. creating an ideal reality where no person suffers seems like a good idea. but as soon as ren enters that reality everything feels off. his friends are not themselves and everything is too ideal. taking away all the bad things in the world does more harm than good and creates a world that is devoid of any depth. i don’t want to hurt, and i don’t want my friends to hurt, but the journey to healing from your struggles on your own is much more satisfying than having someone completely strip away the opportunity to do that. everyone has their own traumas and struggles and should be able to take their own power back, not have someone take away that opportunity entirely. altering reality in such a way is not stripping people of their trauma, its fundamentally changing them as a person instead. maruki does this and thinks its healing his own trauma, but the difference is he is hurting people in the process (maybe without him even realising) rather than making sure abusers don’t abuse again.

sorry this post was incredibly long but i do think the addition of maruki’s palace in royal is such a clever way to put into perspective what the phantom thieves are doing themselves because it makes you question for a moment if what they are doing is really justified, but when you look at maruki and what he is doing you realise the phantom thieves are in it for the right reasons.

[nyaagolor]

Howdy again, if it's the meta world VS "real world" thing in Umineko that's got you stumbling, don't worry. The assumption Ryukishi and co. seem to be going with is that the meta world IS real, and everyone's just chilling in a happy magic afterlife post-series (hence how episodes 7, 8, and 9 can even happen). The "07th Expansion All Characters Settings Collection" guidebook even has little epilogue blurbs for the cast, I can link you the translation hosted on the wiki if you want. It's still bleak in the sense that, yknow, everyone was dead from the start and the whole journey was more of a "coming to terms with what happened" kind of deal, but I think it works given stuff like the Divine Comedy references going on (if you read Battler as Dante and Beatrice as uh, Beatrice, a lot of Umineko'll start to make sense). The way I see the split is kind of an "as above, so below" type deal - while Tohya is down in the land of the living trying to write and solve things, Battler and friends really are up there fighting for their lives in purgatory, and the two reflect each other. Of course if that's not the problem you have, I'd love to hear what you're thinking!

hiii thank u for the ask!! (sorry this will be a Long One). I'll admit the meta world / real world stuff tripped me up at first, because looking at episodes 4 and 8 it really seemed to be implying that the metanarrative was the coping mechanism of Ange+Tohya and their way of pretending like their loved ones got the happy endings they didn't get in life rather than something we can actually assume happened. However extra content implies this is not the case, Ryukishi doesn't feel like the author who would do that especially after the thesis of Higurashi, and tbh even if he did there was enough plausible deniability that I would just imagine the Golden Land as real because You Gotta Cope Somehow. I love the "as above so below" vibes too, that's a fun new aspect to incorporate

My biggest hangup with the ending was basically in the idea that Sayo's narrative is fundamentally doomed. I was under the impression that the boat scene was implying that Sayo couldn't be happy even if she did escape due to the burden of the truth / her trauma. The positive framing of the catbox remaining at the bottom of the ocean initially struck me as a "her death is the happiest ending you can hope for because of how fucked up this all is" which is already a nihilistic narrative but downright unbearable when given to an intersex trans woman. I just don't vibe with hopeless trans narratives at all, and felt like I had misinterpreted smth bc Ryukishi isn't really a nihilistic guy. I'll admit I got a little soured to the narrative as a whole when I looked around online and saw people talking about how Sayo getting a happy ending was "missing the point".

After talking to @heartgold I realized that I had reversed the causality a bit. I was under the impression while playing that Ryukishi's insistence that "things had to happen this way" was him not just saying "oh everyone is already dead, the end result is already the same bc we're looking back at past events" but also "it doesn't matter what individual actions people took, it was always going to end in tragedy". I realize now it's more of a "this was totally preventable in so many ways but it already happened and now we have to grieve and cope in whatever way we can manage" kinda thing rather than a "this is fate and Sayo was screwed regardless", so I'm cool with that aspect. (Also I won't lie I prefer to imagine the boat scene as almost entirely metaphorical and more of a representation of the fragmentation of Battler's consciousness due to trauma in a similar way as what happened to Sayo, but that's neither here nor there)

The other part of it, and the thing I'm still really hung up on, is the question of whether or not the Golden Land is actually a happy ending and, if it is real, whether we're supposed to view it as a sorta perverse tragedy. On one hand, the alters are all implied to be separate people and they get their happy endings (yay), but on the other hand that doesn't really fix nor address Sayo feeling like she needs romantic love to be fulfilled (also The Incest(?) I'm genuinely unsure if the whole "alters becoming separate entities" negates the incest or not). The idea that Sayo was so far gone that even the fantasy created from her best memories does not allow her to truly be happy is just so insanely depressing to me, so I find myself stuck with that friction of wanting Sayo to have her prince and her white horse and her fantasy happy ending while also not wanting to downplay the truth. Having this little moral dilemma feels like the point of Episode 8 and really gets us into Tohya's head, which is awesome, but also gives me a lot of mixed feelings. Knowing that Sayo's truth literally has Beatrice married to Battler makes it even tougher bc I can't just use plausible deniability and say they're platonic bc they are uh. very much not as far as Ryukishi is concerned. I'm still working out my feelings on it, mostly because I desperately want Sayo to have everything she's ever wanted but also having to contend with the little part of me that's whispering "it can't and shouldn't happen and you know it". Alas. Umineko.

PS: thank you for telling me about the character booklet, that's SO cute!!! I love the little details about everyone and the cat-ear Bern is everything I've ever wanted

[right-there-ride-on]

For me the key to understanding SBR was to read it as a narrative instead of a jojo part. I feel like with the rest of jojo you can almost read each part as less as a narrative and more as a series of fights with a loosely connected story. When I first read Part 7, I was reading it through the same lens I do other parts; namely, the story occurs around the fights. What I mean is that I feel with most of the previous parts, the story was a vehicle for the fights, not the other way around.

It’s easy to say SBR is a fresh start / reboot but I think I just so strongly associated it with the rest of jjba that it took forever to me feel like I actually ‘got it’. With other jojo parts I feel most everything is surface-level (I don’t mean this in the bad way, just that, like the rest of the series, it’s very ‘in your face’). But Part 7 is unique to me in that it’s a narrative where I can keep digging and finding new things.

All this to say that it took me several re-reads to feel like I actually caught on to some of the subtext and other things going on. For example, while there’s blatant references to religion throughout SBR, I hadn’t realized how ingrained it was in the story proper until I went back and did the religious analysis of the text, which in turn better informed my understanding of the characters. So much flies over your head the first time you read it. For another example, it took a lot of time and revisiting the text for me to even begin understanding the True Man’s World, and I hadn’t even thought to seriously consider the cultural context of SBR’s setting until someone else pointed out how Ringo’s ideas would have tied in with Jeffersonian rhetoric about American Individualism. Maybe that was my problem: I wasn’t taking SBR on its own terms, and frankly I think I might have dismissed a lot of what Araki was trying to say with this piece by considering as Part 7 instead of Steel Ball Run.

Parts 1-6 are very enjoyable for what they are, but to be quite honest I don’t think they had a larger message besides fate and possibly abuse of power. They had themes, obviously - family and legacy as an overarching one; love comes to mind for Part 1, friendship for Part 2, the journey / friendship for Part 3, etc - but I don’t think Araki had something he was trying to say with them. He wrote Parts 1-6 because he had ideas he wanted to express, and most of those were action-oriented stand battles. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just an observation. The story functioned around the stand battles.

In contrast, with SBR I feel the fights are part of the story, and help inform the greater whole. Lucy’s whole character, as a non-combatant who does important things to keep the plot moving, reflects this change in approach. Sugar Mountain is dedicated to highlighting Gyro and Johnny’s evolving relationship. Compare Bohemian Rhapsody with Diego & Hot Pants vs Valentine. As a narrative SBR demands consideration of values and reflection on what we hold important. It encourages you to think deeply and pull it apart to see what it’s trying to say.

Again, this isn’t to dismiss any of the other Parts, and in no way is this an attack on them. Furthermore, SBR is longer and was afforded a monthly publishing timescale; perhaps there’s an argument for Araki simply having more time to do things. However, I also think the comment from Araki about feeling as though he’d hit his creative limit with Part 6 is reflective on his mindset at the time of writing Stone Ocean. Steel Ball Run was his chance to start fresh as a more experienced writer with a message he wanted to share.

This post is mostly just a reflection for how I want to approach other works in the future.

[blossoms-and-petrichor]

One thing I want to emphasize as important about Good Omens is that it didn't have to be brooding, dark, or filled with despair to be deep. Good Omens reckons with cosmically profound themes: free will, fate, disillusionment with humanity, hope in humanity, the complexity of growing up, justice vs. injustice, immortality, establishing yourself as an individual, family, characterization, isolation, and so much more. It's literally about the end of the world, but it doesn't need to be filled with hopelessness and senseless violence and sheer hopelessness and other grimdark staples in order to have those themes. Of course, Good Omens is not entirely happy-go-lucky, but the scenes of anger, grief, loneliness, and sadness all richly characterize the world and its characters. I think too often people believe that for a piece of media to be raw, deep, or meaningful it must be dark and show humanity its own cruelty. Those works are important, and they are fascinating, and they are valuable. But so are works that use comedy and lightheartedness to craft a story that does not need agony to convey complicated themes. Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett created a beautiful example of this

[utilitycaster]

Skein of Destiny

Now that I've got your attention with a shitpost I do want to plug the article I worked on that prompted it, and throw out some thoughts that are too speculative for wiki articles!

What we know (ie, the canon stuff; much of this is also in the article with citations)

The skein is a physical manifestation of the concept of fate, with threads representing the fate of individuals - Vax and Caleb have both seen it in two entirely different contexts, and Evontra'vir's roots grow into it.

The idea of destiny and fate as a skein/tapestry/weave is nigh-universal in Exandria. It is consistent among worshipers of the Prime Deities (Raven Queen and Ioun both reference it; The Raven Queen's domain includes fate), the Luxon (Caleb sees the skein within the beacon), and nature (Evontra'vir was a druid of the Gau Drashari). Nana Morri, a hag in the feywild, acknowledges it is the Raven Queen's domain, though she has the ability to see it and influence threads beyond her own from an external perspective; Teven Klask (worshiper of a Betrayer God) identifies Fearne as being "outside the knotted weave." Arcane, divine of pretty much all known forms, fey, fiend, and elemental are all united in this understanding in a way they are not really about anything else.

Destiny and fate as understood in Exandria do not mean "all is pre-determined" (as indicated in the shitpost, this is about the interplay of fate and free will, which have always coexisted). The above entities are also united in this understanding. The Raven Queen notes that Vax, as Fate-Touched, influences the fates of those around him in unique ways not merely limited to his choices, but does grant him many choices herself, and tells Percy when he asks her for answers that "There are a great many deeds ahead of you. It's your choice to take them." Ioun says something similar to Vox Machina, and a core tenet of the Changebringer is "Luck favors the bold. Your fate is your own to grasp." The Luxon and Dunamancy are based on the concept of possibility, of many potential paths taken and not taken, and not only do chronurgy wizard spells and the fate-touched ability share certain mechanics, but also permit a do-over, since the future is not yet known. When Caleb observes the threads he sees multiple branches off of them that are implied to be based on possibility (ie, there is not merely one option). And Evontra'vir in episode 3x74 directly tells Bells Hells that while some things are fated to happen, it will be their choice that determines what happens to the gods; it also tells Ashton they are fated to retrieve the spark, but also to bestow it, a choice that is their own.

All three of the main powers discussed (Raven Queen, Luxon, Evontra'vir) also serve to preserve the cycle of life, death, or rebirth in some capacity.

Some thoughts: Honestly the big one is that while the idea of fate vs. free will or of the future being a series of possibilities rather than one definite path is a very common one in epic fantasy (frankly, the idea of Fate as "everything is predetermined" is a bad one anyway in fiction because then there's no point in telling the story), there is a particular ludonarrative harmony to play with this theme in a TTRPG. There is a general path laid out before you, but it is not ironclad, and you can make choices to attempt to change this. Sometimes you will fail despite your best efforts based on factors beyond your control but sometimes you will experience unlikely success. The narrative is shaped by this interplay of possibility/probability and choice.

Some wild speculation: I think a peaceful parting with the gods (ie, stopping Predathos and then Bells Hells making their choices about the fate of Exandria as stated by Evontra'vir) would still preserve this skein fate (as would of course maintaining the divine status quo), but a failure to stop Predathos will destroy it, and the fabric of the cosmos (the roots of Predathos are between worlds; fate connects all of the inner planes). I desperately need to know why Fearne is said to exist outside of fate, because I don't know if that's a fey thing, a Ruidusborn thing, a Nana Morri thing, or something else entirely. I would be shocked if the Luxon doesn't come up in SOME capacity later in the campaign (or perhaps in the Echoes of the Solstice one-shot coming up), and I'm very interested in seeing what other party members might gain as they gather their allies and resources. And I don't think it's coincidence that the two deities devoured by Predathos pre-Schism included Vordo the Fateshaper (nor Ethedok, the Endless Shadow, whose domain of darkness and winter is thematically associated with the cycle of life and death).

[finshingpool]

sundays philosophy explained very badly

and yes he seriously needs to go see a shrink.

!! spoilers for the 2.2 story quest!!

also hoyo is trying to be very subtle with the HI3 World Serpent reference.

first thing first, the positives. his ideology might be twisted but Sunday has never use his position of power to sabotage the opposing party (the backstabbing kind)(not that i know of💔). He seeks total dominance from a fair fight, ultimately to prove his beliefs superior.

he never outright rejects the ideas of our protagonist but instead use grounded argument to support his. its not a fight for total oppression of the people but a wrestle among philosophies, that he believes the worthier one will be judged by the people, the aeons, and fate itself.

✦ . 　⁺ 　 . ✦ . 　⁺ 　 . ✦

! kay so what is Sundayeology.

"a dystopia for the survival of the fittest, or a Sweatdream Paradise for all?"

the way i see it, Sunday wish to bring the closest form of equality into reality(dream xd). a place where strength, status, gender, etc. determined at birth does not affect the life that person desires. he wants to resist the flow of nature, an inherent evil in his eyes that calls itself Natural Selection. The method of such resistance is through Order.

"nature is always accompanied by predation and sacrifice... Its antithesis is known as Order."

how does Sunday define this "Sweatdream Paradise" of his? in his perfect world, nobody would need to work, and hence, would entirely avoid the hardship of reality. it would lead to a forced evolution where we would evolve into a life form detached from our physical state. This transcendence beyond the physical world mainly applies to the human spirit. without hunger and such as, human can cast aside our primal instinct and truly live a life striving towards self enlightenment. only in this hypothetical world do people return to their original self and when faced with their predetermined end, they would leave in the purest of spirit with their dignity intact. To feathered head, this is universal happiness.

so the whats!? mild food for thoughts, facing hardship degrade your dignity???

(might!! have an idea, where most people would assume 'growth' in a emotion sense, 'growth' in Sunday eyes is more on the spiritual side. therefore, in his world, by removing physical limitation where also removing spiritual pain)

"and it is only on these days, that people do not have to adhere to the law where the strong prey on the weak"

in true antagonist fashion, Sunday is a bit of a hypocrite, the status quo where "the strong prey on the weak" is erred but a system where "the strong govern the weak" is perfectly acceptable.

Sunday believes that the individuals that go against his philosophy are the exception, not the rule. as the weekend man himself put it, the ideals the Nameless fought for only represent a small percentage of the people/ 'the fittest' and their actions would negatively impact the 'anonymous and frail member among the masses'.

Sunday view our protagonist quest as quite selfish as they were only focused on striving for a Penocony they deemed right in their eyes, but disregard the perspective of the average Penocony residence (he thought he stood for)

💤⋆.ೃ࿔*:･

! Sundayeology pits against others (the ones i actually pay attention to)

Robin

it's clear robin was his first 'order awakening'(weird). her being shot in the neck and all shows him how Penacony or the universe at large cannot be salvaged through the path of Harmony.

' the bird

nature vs order, an overarching theme in Sundays philosophy. if you played through the 2.2 quest you'd notice the bird flashback is a reoccurring theme. it really helps translate his complex ideas into fornite terms for me. to put it simply, the dove is wounded and Sunday wish to keep it alive by caging it up, it'd be too weak to survive in the wild, at least this way it would continue on living. however, Robin held a different view.

2. Firefly

i think firefly rebuttal during the big yap scene really hit home for me. #powerfulmoment #moved #touched #girlboss #SAM

without any hardship or challenge, people would never have the chance to overcome their weakness and therefore this "blissful world" would only act as an escape for the forementioned weakness

these adversities we faced is just the way of life and the right to deal with them should never be taken from us in the first place.

"the want to escape may be innate in the weak, but whether they are weak are not... it is not up to another to decide

perhaps in your mind, you also view me as 'weak'?"

SHIVER ME TIMBERS. THAT LINE WAS DELIVERED SO WELL ONNNGOD I WAS SQUIRMING.

✩₊˚.⋆☾⋆⁺₊✧

! some random references i wanna point out

⋆ SIMULATION CONSPIRACY RING RING (i watched far way too many wendigoon lately) if dreams are undisguisable to reality, whats wrong with that

⋆ The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas: for the masses to achieve eternal happiness, one person must shoulder all their pain (oh sunday)

"the cost is minute, merely a personal.. and eternal sacrifice. If this paradise is to be maintained for everyone, someone must remain trapped in solitary wakening, until the end of the cosmos."

like come onnn, they're not even trying to hide it.

⋆ like i mentioned before, the whole thing is just a big World Serpent reference (with less pressure for survival, MUCH LESS BLOODSHED). Sunday you're NOT Kevin Kaslana.

───── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ─────

i like how everyone has their own interpretation of "why do life slumber?" for lil vro its " because we are afraid to awaken from our dream"

silly beans:p

~ a/n: i like how allat means nothing at all.

signing of for good

[swinging-stars-from-satellites]

Tim being a photographer vs Dick being a performer. one is always behind the camera (unseen. unknown. looking at the world and people in it but never touching, never a part of it themself) and the other is always in front of it (seen but never quite known. always acting, always reaching out and a little set apart, never a part of the crowd themself). opposites but also a little bit, in some small (poetic?) ways the same. the fact that a photograph holds the foundation and framework of their brotherhood and mutual tragedy (of their individual stories — families lost at different points in life and Tim and Dick, Dick and Tim, hall of mirrors reflections but this ain't a funhouse it's a tragedy — and their shared one, loss and hurt and TRYING and never quite understanding but there anyway). you can take the performer from the circus but not the circus from the performer. you take a kid to a circus (a tragedy) and get a photographer. (you send a son without a father to a circus and get a father to two sons who were also there in their funhouse mirrored roles. it's a small world, really, fate and God work in mysterious ways.) behind the camera, in front of it, feet on the ground or flying in the air (no nets in the alleyways of Gotham), hands on a trapeze or a camera and later on a grapple line, sons of the same father, misunderstandings and understanding, hiding in the shadows and/or dragging the light into view. only children who are brothers. a performer and a photographer, and doesn't it just make sense?

[best-underrated-anime]

Best Underrated Anime Group C Round 4: Wasteful Days of High School Girls vs Kiznaiver

#C7: Wasteful Days of High School Girls (Joshikousei no Mudazukai)

Comedy with high school girls with unique personalities

#C5: Kiznaiver

A bunch of teenagers are forced to share pain

Details and poll under the cut!

#C7: Wasteful Days of High School Girls (Joshikousei no Mudazukai)

Summary:

As she heads off to her entrance ceremony at Sainotama Girls' High School, Akane Kikuchi muses over her grade school dream of becoming a manga artist and the lack of progress that she has made. When she finally arrives at school, she is surprised to learn that she is once again in the same class as her two best friends: the deadpan and emotionless Shiori Saginomiya and the hyperactive and ridiculous Nozomu Tanaka. Tanaka then comes to the obvious realization that she can't achieve her grade school dream of being popular with the boys and getting a boyfriend by going to an all-girls high school.

In desperation, she begins asking the girls in her class to introduce her to their guy friends. Her classmates, however, are anything but ordinary. From a grandmother-loving loli to a reclusive chuunibyou to an overly analytical stalker, each one is given a fitting nickname by Tanaka to accentuate their weirdness. And so begin the wasteful days of these high school girls, each day kicked off with a simple question: "Hey, wanna hear something amazing?"

Propaganda:

Wasteful Days of High School Girls is fast-paced and genre-savvy, subverting a lot of high school anime tropes in ways that are really delightful even if you yourself aren't that familiar with high school animes. But most of all it is cool in a way that only awkward, weird, realistic teenagers can be. It probably won't make you long for your own high school days (if they are in the past), but that is a good thing, because sometimes only a good comedy can really lay bare what life is really like when you're a teenager.

The thing that makes this show so amazing is the characters. These are anime characters with some real Character with a capital C. Everyone is such a real and unique human personality; not just the main trio but all their classmates too AND the teacher and even the nurse that only appears in like one episode!

This is a show with the lowest of stakes and it still manages to feel like something incredibly significant has happened when you get to the end of it. And something incredibly significant has happened! Life happened! An entire year of it!

Trigger Warnings: [Not Stated]

#C5: Kiznaiver

Summary:

Katsuhira Agata is a quiet and reserved teenage boy whose sense of pain has all but vanished. His friend, Chidori Takashiro, can only faintly remember the days before Katsuhira had undergone this profound change. Now, his muffled and complacent demeanor make Katsuhira a constant target for bullies, who exploit him for egregious sums of money. But their fists only just manage to make him blink, as even emotions are far from his grasp.

However, one day Katsuhira, Chidori, and four other teenagers are abducted and forced to join the Kizuna System as official "Kiznaivers." Those taking part are connected through pain: if one member is injured, the others will feel an equal amount of agony. These individuals must become the lab rats and scapegoats of an incomplete system designed with world peace in mind. With their fates literally intertwined, the Kiznaivers must expose their true selves to each other, or risk failing much more than just the Kizuna System.

Propaganda:

Kiznaiver is an extremely underrated work of Studio Trigger’s and is definitely one of their bests. Not just for the animation, but for the impactful story as well. The characters just feel so real, and this show just makes you think about human connection and how much we might care for each other if we shared our pain. Although it can get a little confusing at the end, the sheer raw emotion is what makes up for everything. Every single one of the characters gets developed in ways that made me smile like an idiot.

Very good but severely underrated anime! Would recommend! :)

Trigger Warnings: Emotional Abuse, Fatphobia, Disordered Eating, Implied Sexual Assault (maybe).

The fact that Yuuta is formerly fat is constantly mocked throughout the series, which leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth as a fat person watching the show personally. Yuuta, to maintain his thinness, engages in disordered eating by simply eating a small cube of food every day. Said character is also the subject of an attempted sexual assault by a female character, but I don’t remember correctly if that actually happened or if I just got triggered by the way the scene was portrayed.

When reblogging and adding your own propaganda, please tag me @best-underrated-anime so that I’ll be sure to see it.

If you want to criticize one of the shows above to give the one you’re rooting for an advantage, then do so constructively. I do not tolerate groundless hate or slander on this blog. If I catch you doing such a thing in the notes, be it in the tags or reblogs, I will block you.

Know one of the shows above and not satisfied with how it’s presented in this tournament? Just fill up this form with your revisions, and I’ll consider adapting those changes.

New: Starting round 5, screenshots will be included in the poll post. You can submit screenshots through the form linked above, or through here, via ask or dm.

Guidelines in submitting screenshots:

No NSFW or spoilery images.

Pick some good images please. Don’t send any blurry or pixelated ones.

You may send up to 9 screenshots, but not all may be used.

[skaruresonic]

https://www.tumblr.com/skaruresonic/758536567626383360/the-dangers-of-free-will-what-dangers-being

"even if we're speaking simply from the POV of "Eggman almost destroyed the world when he regained his free will," does one bad apple really outweigh the fact that most people aren't environment-destroying madmen? does that give Eggman the right to deprive everyone else of their free will?"

Eggman is inarguably an irredeemably horrid monster with a long track record of gleefully subjecting innocent people to nightmarish fates. there should have never been any question on whether or not he deserves death.

This is what gets me. The people defending idw sonic's morality don't comprehend that different individuals with different histories will require different approaches.

Comic stans: If Sonic thinks it's fine to kill Eggman then that means he's fine with killing everybody

Uh no???

It's like asking why Sonic sentenced Erazor Djinn to eternal damnation but let Merlina go with a quick pep talk. It's because both cases were utterly incomparable and would naturally require different approaches.

Comic stans: Well if Sonic is fine with punishing irredeemable villains then why doesn't he kill Eggman?

Same reason why Sonic always survives impossible situations or gets outright resurrected after dying. SEGA is not gonna kill off their mascot or the mascot's main enemy. We have to remember there's a bit of a corporate aspect in all of this

Why is this so hard for some people?

This part of your post also stuck out to me "does that give Eggman the right to deprive everyone else of their free will?""

Eggman wants to turn everyone into unthinking machines specifically so he make them worship him forever. That's not exactly a desire or choice based on morality. All Eggman wants is the satisfaction of having power over all living beings.

The only way anyone can defend the idw sonic comic is by making up deranged nonsense and forcing themselves to believe in it.

Comic stans: If Sonic thinks it's fine to kill Eggman then that means he's fine with killing everybody

Uh no???

It's like asking why Sonic sentenced Erazor Djinn to eternal damnation but let Merlina go with a quick pep talk. It's because both cases were utterly incomparable and would naturally require different approaches.

I think the thing that really gets me is half the time I'm not even particularly arguing for or against Sonic killing Eggman as a solution to anything because what would that solve?

The point is moot. As long as there's a Sonic the Hedgehog(tm) franchise, Sonic and Eggman are going to continue fighting each other. The unstoppable force vs. the immovable object. As it should be.

Instead, I'm trying to point out how little Sonic regards Eggman's welfare in the games. That Eggman lives despite Sonic's attempts and extreme negligence should logically attest to Eggman's hardiness and resourcefulness. He's one slippery motherfucker. That's pretty much the size of it in the games.

Yet people interpret

"Sonic, personally, does not care whether Eggman lives or dies. He frequently leaves Eggman behind in explosions or other similar scenarios of the doctor's own making. In other cases, he ignores Eggman's pleas for help or puts Eggman in dangerous situations while neither knowing nor caring if Eggman survives, such as blowing up his Eggmobile with a rock or stealing his jetpack nozzle and sending him plummeting to Earth. "In fact, Sonic has acted so negligently towards Eggman that if he were charged in a court of law, he'd be looking at second degree homicidal negligence, the failure to protect a person which resulted in preventable death. All this should tell you the extent to which Sonic regards Eggman's welfare."

as

"I think Sonic should slaughter all of his enemies. No mercy. Mercy is for wimps."

Granted, not everyone strawmans the point this hard, but it's frequent enough to warrant the occasional facepalm. We're talking about how Sonic treats Eggman in the games, right? So why are we dragging how he treats every other villain into the conversation as if that's germane to the topic at hand?

Of course Sonic is going to treat his enemies on a case-by-case basis. However, I'd argue that the most common examples - "sparing" Metal in Heroes and Merlina in SatBK - aren't precisely the moments of mercy that people portray them as.

Putting aside the fact that Sonic was not the one to "rehabilitate" Knuckles, Shadow, or Silver, folks seem to forget that he charged the Dark Queen with seeming intent to kill twice. He didn't know she'd put up a shield when he lunged for her the first time. And the fact that he repeated the blow just raises questions.

Once, maybe it's an "in the heat of the moment" thing. But twice? Twice, you want somebody dead. Conveniently, I've never seen anyone mention that part of the pre-boss cutscene when they talk about Sonic giving Merlina the flower.

Sparing Metal... Yeah, no. He didn't. Metal passed out, and he ran off. Leagues different than taking Metal home and patching him up.

And idk, it seems weird how folks are unable to accept that sometimes, despite everything, Sonic does square up and kill. Yes. That is something he does on occasion.

It doesn't need all of these caveats and asterisks about how it doesn't count as "real killing," like it needs to be clarified that Sonic the Hedgehog isn't a serial killer. It's not like "he did it out of necessity" will suddenly cause Emerl to un-die at the end of Battle. It's not as though "he helped Shahra" renders "he sealed the Erazor Djinn in the lamp for all eternity and tossed it into the furnace so that the Djinn, if he didn't die just then, suffers eternally in a place no one can find him" moot.

---

Comic stans: Well if Sonic is fine with punishing irredeemable villains then why doesn't he kill Eggman?

Same reason why Sonic always survives impossible situations or gets outright resurrected after dying. SEGA is not gonna kill off their mascot or the mascot's main enemy. We have to remember there's a bit of a corporate aspect in all of this

Exactly.

[sneezemonster15]

Kishi makes a faux pas. Hehehe.

Kishi's interview for The Last.

Kishi - "I am depicting Love in Naruto for the first time, never until now in Naruto.."

Another interview towards the end of Shippuden.

Kishi - "Because I think that in becoming an adult, a man experiences love; now in my head, Naruto's image is that of an adult."

Ah, is that so? Hmm.

Yeah, we all know Naruto is a love story, a coming of age story as well. Naruto comes of age at the end of the manga, so does Sasuke. They both admit their love for each other and then accept the burden of the world that they are supposed to carry as shinobis.

In the course of the manga, Naruto grows up. His understanding of himself, the world, war, people, friendship, family, nation, good vs bad, right vs wrong, collective vs individual, all of these are challenged and then Naruto slowly but steadily grows into his shoes as the fated savior of the world. But most of all, he learns what love is, how to love, and how to stay true to his ideal of love . He finally understands what it means to love and how far he is ready to go for Sasuke, for his love for Sasuke. Sasuke is the reason he grows up. Sasuke is the one whose memory and the desire to be there for him constantly eggs him on to learn more, to be a better warrior, to be a better person. In the course of the manga, Naruto's image gets transformed from 'a little rascal' to the responsible leader everyone looks up to.

So many fans want undeniable proof that Sasuke and Naruto's relationship is romantic. They want it to be written as a biblical grade edict on a stone tablet and approved by Jesus himself. Or else they won't believe it.

Well, sorry, I called, Jesus is on vacation. But his assistant asked me to tell y'all this on His behalf - "Yo, stop bugging everyone asking the same dumb question again and again and just use your head. Sasuke and Naruto are gay. If I drew an ass and told you it was a duck, would you believe it? No? Then why would you look at Sasuke and Naruto doing the stuff they do and call them brothers? Pull your shit together ese, damn, it's 2023.🤟"