#die thinking of you as an abuser

[sunlit-mess]

consumed by the inevitable

[wingsau]

I want to talk about Billy Hargrove. I want to talk about a character who was so complex and also such a reality for some viewers. A character who was so angry and vicious, but also a child who was being abused. I wanna talk about how Billy is such a good representation of what it looks like to be stuck in such a toxic life, and how easy it is to let that hate and anger consume you - even if it's not who you are. I wanna talk about how I could have been Billy Hargrove in a different situation. And I want to talk about how they used that to make him a villain and then they killed him. But some of you aren't ready to have that conversation.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

psa that the day there are no jgy stans left on tumblr dot com is the day i am dead

but rest assured i'll go to my grave exactly as i lived: obnoxiously proclaiming to everyone within earshot how great lianfang-zun is. narratively, metaphorically, spiritually. sexually, too, like why limit myself. i like to keep my options open

[trappedinafantasy37]

There are multiple gods in the game that you can directly interact with and they all have ties to the narrative. You can interact with Shar via Shadowheart. You can interact with Mystra via Gale. You can interact with Myrkul via Ketheric when he takes on the avatar form. You can interact with Bhaal via Durge and in the fight with Orin. You can interact with Bane after killing Gortash and using "Speak with Dead" in which the soul you speak to is not Gortash, but Bane himself. I would include Vlaakith in this list but Vlaakith is not a god, she is a lich presenting herself as a god. And, of course, there is the Absolute which doesn't really become a god until it ascends into the Netherbrain (although that is debatable).

But, did you know that Lolth will also interact with you? As far as I am aware, Lolth is the only non-story related god in which you do have interactions with. One of them is only available if you are a Lolth-sworn drow, and the other is only available if you are a Cleric of Lolth (you do not need to be Lolth-sworn for it).

The first instance is in the goblin camp with the spiders in the pit. This does require that you are a Lolth-sworn drow and that you have the ability to speak with animals. When talking to the spiders, you will have the option to present yourself to the spiders as Lolth herself. If you fail the persuasion check, Lolth gets pissed off as she was listening to you and is not happy that you tried to present yourself as her. And she tells the spiders you are an imposter and they attack you. But if you succeed the check, Lolth doesn't do anything and the spiders will think you are Lolth. So, Lolth doesn't really have a problem with you pretending to be her. But if you are going to pretend to be her, you better do it right. If the spiders think you are Lolth, you can ask them about what's going on in the goblin camp and the spiders only talk about one thing. They immediately tell you that there is another drow in the camp who has forgotten her way and that she is forsaken. And, as I said, Lolth is here. She heard the spiders admit this. Lolth does nothing about it.

The second instance is in the Underdark with the Phalar Aluve. When you interact with the sword, you have two different checks, a Strength check and a Religion check. If you do the Strength check, you can just pull it out of the stone and be on your merry way. If you perform the Religion check, the narrator will tell you different things depending on certain conditions. If you are a Lolth-sworn drow and/or a Cleric of Lolth, the narrator will tell you that the religious rite to pull the blade from the stone is blasphemous as it pays honor to the weak. If you are of any other race and/or cleric of any other god, the narrator will tell you that the sword is of Eilistraee and the rite pays honor to the fallen. The religious rite is that you spill a little bit of your blood and the sword will rise out of the stone on its own. If you do this as a Cleric of Lolth (you don't need to be Lolth-sworn) you will feel hundreds of spiders crawl all over you as Lolth is warning you not to do shit like that ever again. Not only did you perform the religious rite of another god, you performed the religious rite of a god she hates. And she is letting you know how much she hated that.

These are the only two instances in the game that I have found in which Lolth interacts with the player but there are plenty of other moments in which Lolth could interact with you, but doesn't (such as with the Phase Spider, the baby spiders in Grymforge, Kar'niss, or the dead spider in the Gauntlet of Shar). Of these two moments where Lolth does interact with you, one of these instances is in the goblin camp, and the other is in the Underdark not too far away from the goblin camp. I don't think it is much of a coincidence that these two interactions occur in close proximity to Minthara. Almost as if Lolth has a reason to be in that area specifically to watch and monitor things, and you just so happened to be there. And the only things that compel her to interact with you is because you pissed her off. But, as long you don't piss her off, she will do nothing and she will say nothing.

When Minthara was being tortured by the Absolute, she prayed to Lolth and begged Lolth to give her the strength to fight her enemies. But Lolth does nothing and Lolth says nothing. In fact, that was the full extent of Lolth's "punishment" for Minthara, nothing. All Lolth did was not answer Minthara's prayers and not show up when Minthara needed her the most. Lolth did not torture Minthara like the Absolute did, Lolth did not turn her into a drider, nor did Lolth eat her. All she did, was nothing. And yes, Lolth is known for abandoning drow and no longer interacting with them. A drow has to do something incredibly awful in order for Lolth to just back away from them entirely. But you cannot convince me that Lolth is going to let one of her Baenre's go so easily. It's not as if Minthara has done anything truly awful either to make Lolth that mad.

According to Minthara, she herself has sinned against the Spider Queen, but it's not as if she chose to abandon Lolth, she was forced away and mind controlled into being devoted to another god. But would this make a difference to Lolth? Does it really matter if Minthara was compelled to have faith in another god besides Lolth? It isn't until Minthara is freed and feels the absence of Lolth that she chooses to no longer follow Lolth. Minthara even mentions how turning against Lolth is a big no-no in Menzoberranzan. Minthara herself at one point has hunted down and killed those who turn their backs from Lolth so she knows the same will be done to her if she were to ever return home. In fact, if you are a Lolth-sworn drow or a Cleric of Lolth, you are given unique dialogue options with Minthara to kill her because she is a traitor to Lolth and these options continue to show up until you recruit her into your party and she joins your roster. Despite all of this, Lolth does nothing. Minthara spews anti-Lolth rhetoric left and right, and Lolth does nothing. If you take Minthara to the tabernacle, she will spit on a shrine to Lolth, and Lolth does nothing.

Minthara is also able to walk through the Gauntlet of Shar, which is in the Underdark, and Lolth does nothing. Sure, you could argue that its connection to the Shadowfell and the fact that Shar is there via Shadowheart is enough to keep Lolth away. The lore of DnD does not make it quite clear what the relationship between these two goddesses are. But I am willing to bet that Lolth is smart enough not to step on Shar's toes because Shar would annihilate her. However, there is a small little section of the Gauntlet where it actually does spit you out directly into the Underdark and into Lolth's territory. Minthara can walk right out there just fine, and Lolth does nothing.

But most importantly, Minthara's default ending is her returning to the Underdark with the sole purpose of destroying House Baenre and then killing Lolth. Destroying House Baenre could lead to a chaotic and political disaster in Menzoberranzan, and Lolth does nothing. Minthara quite literally wants to kill Lolth and has intentions to do so after taking House Baenre, and Lolth. Does. Nothing!

If Minthara goes into the Underdark and destroys House Baenre, this will cause chaos and death. And the Baenre's won't be the only ones she has to destroy, but any and all allies of House Baenre in which they do have a lot. And Lolth will feed off of all the death and carnage and chaos that Minthara is about to bring to Menzoberranzan because Lolth loves chaos more than she hates traitors.

Maybe, Lolth has not abandoned her as Minthara thinks she has. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara has not actually upset her. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara is already doing everything Lolth wants her to do. And all it took, was making Minthara think that Lolth abandoned her. There was no need for Lolth to answer Minthara's prayers, because Minthara always had the strength to fight her enemies.

[samble-movedd]

"homura is an evil abuser who wants to control madoka and hates their friends" tired trope, canonically untrue, congrats on falling for the facade put up by a middle schooler.

"homura sees herself as inherently evil and abusive due to her upbringing, past actions, and status as a witch, which is still ongoing even at the end of rebellion" fresh, new, actually closer to canon, doesn't demonize a child for being mentally ill.

[uncanny-tranny]

An important aspect of youth liberation is not tying the idea of later adult care with having children.

The broader attitude that only your children can ensure that you get taken care of when you grow old is not a good precedent to set. Having children should not be what ensures that you can live through old age, and fear mongering people with the idea that nobody will ever take care of them (or, rather, shouldn't) is such an awful motivator to have children.

[tiptoethewordsgo]

hello gravity falls tumblr, someone write a fanfic where the pines family have to break bill out of rehab to help defeat a greater evil and my life is yours

[dxxtruction]

Louis' "You're boring!" Could mean so many things, but I think what's most apparent about that line is that Armand takes no initiative just for himself. He's not really anybody, because he never goes out and finds himself or gets attached to anyone but Louis. Without Louis as his guide he's literally just sitting on a couch picking lint! That's the thing.

He orbits constantly around what would make Louis happy, and never really fully going what would make me happy? Ultimately that drive to please Louis is what drives him to torturing Daniel, not so much that he'd care to just do it. Ultimately, not giving proper care to Louis is just a way to make sure Louis knows he has to orbit around him as well, with shoving Lestat onto him just that other nail on the coffin. So, even if he fails to figure out how to make Louis happy with him, he still knows what Armand is good for, and better than.

That dependency is what drives Armand's abuse. It really just comes down to that. Armand doesn't even realize how suffocated he is by his own dependency. This is just how life is to him. (It shouldn't be lost either that dependency is a theme considering this episode also deals with addiction).

Daniel's fascinating because he's just so driven to be somebody. He's largely independent, he seeks things because he wants them. It's his drug to poke and prod at all the things that he shouldn't. Daniel's exciting because he lets Louis in to something different, lets him in to all this potential in another person that he can also do the same with for himself. It's a real connection. A two way street. It's easy to tell how Armand can be smothering then because he's never introducing him to anything really new, and most the ways both of them connect are all painful and traumatic. It's never just fun because there's always that layer of that pain. Fun died with Claudia.

50 years on they've gotten to a lot better place, both of them, but it's still that same shit. No seriously, "How is this any different from last time, Louis?"

Well... Because Armand's going to be, at the very least, making one [1] decision only for himself - and that's to hold power over Daniel's life. Fucking sick foreshadowing.

They aren't driving each other to the brink anymore but "The vampire is bored" STILL. Maybe it's even worse, despite being in better places, because Louis' sort of just been defeated by it. (I mean, can he even really leave this either?). He's accepting the dependancy cause he kind of has to. He'd literally ended up letting all the enjoyment be up where he can't reach [The book shelves]. Armand so desperately wants Louis happiness but what really ends up happening is that Louis ends up having to give Armand all his own. He's got no one or anything else to get it from. But like an iPad and an over the top eating ritual. Two extremes of what's just more lint picking.

This whole relationship is one I find just tragic inside and out. You have to just pity it, really. There's ways in which you can find yourself feeling bad for both of them. But you can only really be mad at Armand for any of it. Armand, who isn't even 'free' in any sense, having so little concept of his own independence, but is at the same time so controlling over other's. It's a tragic cycle. It's an infuriating one.

Louis at least has the mind to know when enough is enough. If just needing that extra push to get there. Armand's too scared of it being over to even try.

[introspectivememories]

cannot stop thinking about how jealous tye hearts and strawhats must be of each other because like imagine you're a strawhat. your captain is in the middle of a war and sees his brother die in front of him. you and your crewmates are scattered across the globe with no way to reach him. you don't even know if he's still alive until months later when he reappears on the front page of the newspaper with message for you guys. later when you're all reunited with a new alliance on the way, you find out that this weird ass pirate and his crew was there post war. weird ass pirate and his crew patched your captain up. weird ass pirate and his crew was there in your captain's darkest hour and you weren't. it should've been you by his side and it wasn't. and on the hearts side of things, your captain leaves you behind to fight his abuser. he does not let you come with him. you live on a submarine. you've all seen each other at your worst moments. you've seen how much doflamingo scares your captain. you've been working on this plan for fucking years and instead of letting you stand by the man you have chosen to follow he sends you away and instead takes strawhat's crew as backup. you dont even know if he's alive until the news comes out. strawhat luffy and his crew were there as your capatain faced his abuser and you weren't. it should've been you by his side and it wasn't.

[vivika-ka]

Some instances that I feel show how some messages in MHA are detrimental, especially on how victims react to their abuser, can be gauged by responses that tend to be highly prevalent in the fandom.

(Definitely not every fan, but a great majority).

Endeavor is a great example. Whenever you post criticizing his approach to atonement (and ultimately criticizing Horikoshi’s writing), you get BOMBARDED by people either belittling you for not liking his character or essentially forcing you to like his character by frantically writing “at least he tried” arguments.

If I have the CHOICE whether to forgive his character or not, especially given he goes through an atonement arc and not a redemption arc, why is any form of criticism about his abusive behavior and essentially his abuse of power practically ignored by the story unacceptable?

The message was detrimental because people operate on the notion that for victims to be good people, they must forgive and even help their abusers. MHA presents people who choose not to forgive him as either a monster (Toya) or inconvenient (Natsuo). And if they are still unforgiving, they must admire the abuser for doing the bare minimum (taking responsibility; this is also about Natsuo).

Essentially, they are considered "imperfect victims" because they weren't merciful in their approach to their abuser.

The majority of the fandom tends to ignore the lack of actual consequences for Endeavor's actions because he vows to talk to Toya every day. Insisting that doing the bare minimum, which is recognizing his son's existence and suffering, became his "hell" is a wildly fucked up message, in my opinion.

It harps on the issue mentioned above that if a victim isn't receptive to forgiveness or doesn't act "demure," they are seen as an inconvenience—which is how the Todoroki family ultimately views Toya.

On a less critical note, I'll vent, so if you don't like this, just ignore it.

I'm so fucking tired of stories depicting imperfect victims as people who deserve death and torture. Plus, having to be on the brunt of so many people acting like you're morally fucked because you're not impressed with how a writer handled abuse. Horikoshi is not the first writer to try to atone a character who is an abuser (and he isn't the first to fail at that, either).

I'm not about to dick-ride every decision every author makes. Especially if the message convinces some audience members that victims are inherently broken if they can't bring themselves to forgive and/or admire someone who hurt them.

[armandposting]

marius does seem to have a lot of complicated feelings about what he did to armand and I really hope one of them is guilt for his thinking in buying armand originally. he talks in blood and gold about how when he heard armand's mind, the entire reason he wanted him was because he thought, here is a child who has been so hurt that it will be no loss to the world if I make him a vampire. and he wavers on this later and I hope it's because he saw this child make friends and learn things and love rings and watches and swordfighting and realize that actually there is never a child so damaged that taking them from humanity is no loss. I wonder if part of the reason he never tried to talk to armand after seeing him with the children of darkness is that he saw that boy changed into a lonely stoic cult leader with no more will or verve and was too consumed with guilt to even try. I hope that guilt started when he took armand to kiev rus and saw how much armand still loved the family he hadn't seen in years and for a while barely remembered from trauma. also I hope marius explodes into one thousand pieces but that's mostly irrelevant

[varpusvaras]

Seventeen stares at Arell. He has to bite his teeth together so hard it feels like they are breaking in order to not to continue saying anything more, no matter how much he wants to do so. Let the bastard say what he wants in turn, and then Seventeen can continue and finish this and do whatever he wants afterwards.

Arell stares right back. He is holding back, Seventeen can see it, because he has forced his face to be expressionless, but Seventeen can still see the contempt in his eyes. He stays quiet for one, two, three, five, ten seconds, and Seventeen wants to fucking strangle him already-

"Just cry", Arell says.

Seventeen feels something twist inside his head.

"What?" He snarls.

"Just cry", Arell repeats. "There's no need for you to stand there and throw insults at me. Just cry like a normal person."

Seventeen wants to go over there and strangle him right now.

"In case you have not noticed already, I am not-"

"Shut the hell up with that already." There is emotion now on Arell's face. His mouth is contorted into a disgusted sneer. "I am not a normal person, shut the hell up. You are just a person, just a human being, there is nothing special about you. There are billions of you all over the fucking Galaxy, and you have the nerve to stand in front of me and tell me that you are somehow special, somehow different from all of them? No, you are not. You are a regular human being that the Galaxy has been kicking to the head for your entire life, and what you are supposed to do now is to be a normal person and cry about it!"

Seventeen wants to fucking kill him.

"Shut up", he says. He isn't yelling. He doesn't do yelling.

"What?" Arell scoffs. "You don't like hearing the truth? That you are not some unfeeling killing machine, too good for normal people stuff? Well that's too bad, because that is what you need to hear, and I am telling you that right now. You are not special. You are just a human!"

"Shut up." Seventeen is not yelling. He doesn't do yelling. Yelling doesn't do anything.

Neither does crying.

"Or what?" Arell asks. He stares right at Seventeen, unmoving, challenging, like Seventeen is not a highly trained soldier, bred for war, capable of snapping his neck with his bare hands if he wants to. He is staring at Seventeen like Seventeen is just a regular person, living their regular life and a normal house, doing menial daily tasks like laundry and dishes and cooking and cleaning because that is what his life is.

There's a stab at Seventeen's abdomen. A phantom pain that wants to spread like a fire to the rest of his body.

"Or what?" Arell repeats, like he can see it, like he knows that Seventeen is not a threat to him, because he is a broken product that has been cast aside because he is of no use anymore.

"Shut up!" Seventeen is not yelling. He does not do yelling. Yelling helps nothing. Neither does crying.

"Or what!" Arell takes a step forward. Seventeen stands his ground, no matter how much his body is burning, no matter how much it is telling him to just collapse to the ground and lay there and scream. "Or what, Seventeen? What are you going to do? You can't keep running away from this! You have already lost the first half of your life, do you want to keep wasting the rest of it away too, pretending to be something you are not?"

"Shut up!" There is fire everywhere. "Shut up! You don't know anything!"

"I know enough!" Arell is standing in front of him and looking down at him. "I know that you are a human! That's all I need to know! That's all that you need to know! Now cry, damn it!"

Seventeen screams.

He is being stabbed through his abdomen, with a blade that is hotter than all the blaster bolts he has ever shot in his entire life, and his legs stop working and he falls to the ground, both numb and on fire, and he heaves the air in and out, like it is supposed to help, but nothing helps, nothing ever does, he has tried, he has tried and nothing ever does, he doesn't need it, he needs to just keep going-

There is a strange noise coming from somewhere. It's guttural and sorrowful. Angry and frustrated. Pitiful and pleading. Seventeen knows the noise. It's how all the cadets had sounded like when they would fall down, bruised and beaten by everything, tired and angry and scared about everything happening around them and to them. They would wail like that, asking for help, and it never helped anyone.

Seventeen listens to it, wondering what had been the cause this time. If it had been the ten hours of training, if it had been the trainers screaming insults for every missed mark, if it had been the pains of a body that had been growing too fast and kept changing even faster. If it had been the fear of what was to come. If it had been the nightmares of death plaguing them even when they were awake.

It never helped. Nothing would change if you cried. No one would ever help. It was pointless. All you could do had been to just stand up and keep going, no matter what.

Seventeen can't stand up.

He listens to the crying.

There are no cadets there. Not even other clones. None other than him.

Seventeen is on the floor and he cries and he can't stand up.

There are hands on him. They pull him straighter and then drag him forwards, and then there are arms wrapping around him.

Crying had never helped. There had been no arms to hold you if you cried. The only thing you could do had been to stand up and keep going.

It's wrong. It's not how this is supposed to go. There isn't supposed to be anyone there. It's not supposed to help.

Arell sits on the floor in front of him and holds him.

It's wrong. There isn't supposed to be anyone there. It's not supposed to help.

It's not-

"I hate you", Seventeen cries.

"That's okay", Arell says.

It's not supposed to-

"I hate you", Seventeen cries.

"That's okay", Arell says, again.

Seventeen cries.

[a-court-of-valkyries]

It's so funny how people say that Nesta and Eris getting together in canon would be toxic and abusive and then they ship nessian in the same breath I can't-

[donnatroyyyy]

Can I be honest with everyone a second? I honestly think that every instance used to justify calling Dick Grayson the “angry robin” is him being justifiably mad at something that would make anyone who was put in the situation mad.

[kacievvbbbb]

Can't believe this show just said that yeah these broken children that have finally managed to claw some semblance of family out of the train wreck their psychotic father made of them, these children now adults, don't get peace, they don't deserve it. actually the world is so much better without them in it. They are the direct reason why so many people they have met are not living happier lives and the universe would be a much happier safer place with them gone. They were pawns in their father's game and now they are victims of their "mother's" scheme. And this is all they get, there was never any happy ending for them in the cards the universe rebukes their very existence and it is constantly trying to write them out of it.

They doomed the world from the start, the blame is all at their feet and they must pay for the crime of being born "special".

The fucking implications of that my god!

That's the message you ended your show on. That is what you are leaving us with. Why?

[bonefall]

Is there a cat in cannon who got a good death who you think didn't deserve it? Especially if they committed crimes?

Tom the Wifebeater and his redemption death. No question. It's not even close.

Not only do I reject to the "redemption death" on the grounds of it being Tom the Wifebeater who is bullying others until his dying breath, even taunting Thunder about Turtle Tail is dead and the kits must be very torn up about it, but I reject "redemption through death" entirely. I don't like it in stories. It's a theme I deeply object to.

And again it's fucking wild that every time a character is a father, even if they are a wifebeater or a child abuser, the writers think that it bestows a glimmer of goodness into them which every abused child is forced to appreciate and cry about. Breezepelt, Thunder, Tallstar, Tom's children, all of them forced to reconcile and admit how much they wuv their papa.

Abusive dads in WC regularly get redemption deaths, too. Clear Sky dies saving his grandchild, Sandgorse died saving a rando in a tunnel, Tom the Wifebeater saving his daughter.

But Tom the Wifebeater is the worst example of it. Hands down.