#even though our school is 50% queer | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

crepesuzette2023 · 10 months

Note

Hi! Because someone just asked me, I'd love you hear your Top 5 favourite McLennon fics!

You made my day! Nothing could have made me happier than this ask.

I'm not going to evade your question. I will post my top-five, even though it hurts to choose. But you inspired me to finally write a longer (okay: very long) post about some (not nearly all!) of my favorites, which will be under the cut.

(Sorry for not knowing every writer's tumblr, by the way. Please feel free to let me know, so I can tag authors where appropriate. Thank you!)

My Top 5:

MIRACLE WORKER by @scurator. What can I say. Every time I need my heart broken and to feel an inkling of what grace truly means, I go to this masterpiece about Paul and Robert Fraser finding each other again at Cavendish in 1981.

COAST STARLIGHT by bookofapril is "Miracle Worker's" cosmic twin. The sun to its night. Paul and Robert Fraser on Fire Island in 1974. Nothing I can say will do it justice, so I won't try. This is the "other world" conjured in "Tug of War," so powerfully and joyfully imagined, it's real. (I'm always thinking of this story, but I did so extra hard when I came across a prompt recently: 'They aren't each other's first love, but they're each other's true love'.)

SAME AS IT EVER WAS by RedheadAmongWolves. My favorite Outsider's POV. An ageing newsstand owner from Liverpool remembers John and Paul as boys and young men. There's something magical about the relationship coming alive in these glimpses. A story filled with tenderness that reminds me to always look closely.

AN ORGASM OF SOUND by @pauls1967moustache. The insanity of John and Paul in 1967 got the tribute it deserves. I sleep easier since I read this story. It feels cosmically right that it exists.

PLANT A SEED by @eveepe. Paul in his slutty sailor outfit in Miami. He and John are into each other, and happy, and fuck slowly. Afterwards, Paul has an idea for a new song. That's it. Tender, glorious, hot perfection. Apply at least once a week for best results.

For more thoughts about some of my favorite stories, sorted into very much defined-ad-hoc categories, read under the cut.

Young Love:

I love the myth of their first meeting, and stories that speculate about the sexually loaded creative fireworks/gritty jealousies/tentative hand-holding/topping and tailing during the first years. Here are some faves:

Paul finds music, and John, and his life is changing. In STREETS OF OUR TOWN (@with-eyes-closed) you can taste the upheaval and promise of first love and growing up. Deeply sensual, even without on-page sex. The shaky, sweet, and all-consuming fire of John and Paul’s first kiss is immortalized in ALL I KNOW SINCE YESTERDAY (RedheadAmongWolves). In NON NOBIS SOLUM (@downtothe-lastdrop), art student John simply has to know how far grammar school boy Paul will go to please him. But Paul matches him play-by-play. In THE CAST IRON SHORE (@m1ssunderstanding) Paul earns extra money through music and sex. John finds out. They fall in love, and hide their mutual pining behind transactions—but in the end, they man up to pair up, and get their band back on track. (The first part is finished; I can’t wait for part 2.) John and Paul’s ’61 trip to Paris has been honored in fiction many times; WHEN YOU ARE YOUNG THEY ASSUME YOU KNOW NOTHING (@lilypadd23) is a slow-burning, blessedly long story that blossoms sweetly. DON’T THINK ABOUT IT is the concept by which Paul measures both his pining for John and their deeply satisfying (but surely not really queer?!) sex life. Perfectly realized Paul POV by @merseydreams. Finally: I NEED YOU DARLIN’ (verse) (by @beatlessideblog) would have fit many categories, but I put it here, because in the end, it’s about young John and Paul becoming friends, making music, having sex, and falling in love. No more, no less. Embedded in a late 50’s/early 60's Liverpool omegaverse in which there's a place for their bond. But, surprise (?!): It’s still complicated. I can’t overstate how charming and satisfying and funny and hot this work is.

Old John and Paul:

Is there anything as lovely as imagining John and Paul growing old together?

In HERE TODAY (@herspecialagent), John and Paul found happiness with each other in Scotland. On 8th December 1980, they invite friends for a party, and fight an inexplicable sense of doom. A reminder that our other lives can be closer than we think, and to keep our loved ones even closer.

GROW OLD WITH ME (@inherownwr1te): Old farmers and husbands John and Paul enjoy domestic bliss, deal with a broken arm, and make sweet love.

HAVING COFFEE (@feathersandblue): John Lennon and Paul McCartney, “one of the most iconic gay couples in history,” look back on their early love, the Beatles, and being outed in the 80’s, in this oh-so-glamourous, well-written 2020 portrait…

Magical re-tellings of J/P and/or the Beatles Story:

No matter where you come down on the blessed vs. cursed continuum—they were living through something magical.

In KISSING THE BLARNEY (@zilabee) the Beatles draw love and music from kissing Paul, and each other, until the stupid world interferes. But fear not, all ends well. How to tell the truth through whimsy: this story demonstrates it.

In WE ARE ALL TOGETHER (also by @zilabee), John and Paul switch bodies. It helps.

I WAS A YOUNGER MAN NOW (THEN) (POST HOC) BY @fingersfallingupwards: Paul is a time traveler and braids his life together with John’s, out of order, through the years. And yes, they do grow old together—but not without losing each other first. I’m in awe of this story.

A darker time-traveling story is A MATTER OF TIME (D12Fan), in which John and Paul love each other, over and over, and never manage to make it work—but Paul won’t give up.

FOR THOUGH THEY MAY BE PARTED (@downtothe-lastdrop): The misery of the 'Get Back' sessions and memory-stunting technology imported from “Severance” are not enough to kill off John and Paul’s attraction and longing for each other. Again, this is basically what happened, so.

John and Paul without the Beatles?

Yes, please! Sometimes, the best way to dissect and celebrate (and fix?) this mesmerizing and exasperating partnership is to lift it from its context and drop it elsewhere. Anything goes.

WHATEVER FATE DECREES by @dailyhowl: A gorgeous, finely spun, securely handled, self-contained vision of how John and Paul could have worked as artists in love, without a band to 'legitimize' and constrain their bond. I love this homage to their deep and complicated love that needed trust and breathing room.

1967 by @walkuntilthedaylight: What if John and Paul had gone to Spain together and not come back? This story not only explores their relationship layer by layer, it also dives into the the feelings of those who knew them 'before' and who now meet them again, as a couple. A fascinating alternate history. Not a fluffy one.

TOMORROW I'LL MISS YOU (@pauls1967moustache): Paul abandons John in Hamburg—or John stays behind without bothering to write, depending on who you ask. This "Before Sunset"—AU reunites them, years later. They ride a bus and write a song, and the love and tension are sweet and painful.

DOUBLE FANTASY (by @javelinbk): Modern AU in which John and Paul meet at John's flower shop and manage to ignore and creatively re-interpret their feelings for one another for a surprising amount of time, before fate has mercy. I love how their sweet, well-matched eccentricity makes the world a warmer place for both of them.

WE ARE STARDUST (Unchained_Daisychain): AU. John and Paul meet at Woodstock, fall hard and fast for each other, and have to decide what to do with it: Paul's life is back home in England...except...

Angst, darkness, and courage:

Pain, fear, grief, and other dark emotions are part of the real J/P story, so it makes sense to honor and harvest them in fiction. One of my favorite brands of McLennon angst is the one triggered by their feelings for each other, and the thing they become once they're together™. When they're scared of how much they need each other, and of what will happen next.

ONE AND ONE AND ONE IS THREE and MANAGING EXPECTATIONS (both by @pauls1967moustache), for instance. The first is a terrifying threesome with Yoko (at John's instigation, of course), in which trust is never rewarded and sex resolves nothing. The second is Paul wondering, in thoughts both messy and crystal clear, whether he exists independently of John. He turns to Brian for answers. They fuck. It feels like a human thing compared to what is going on in Paul's mind. Just astounding.

SUNDAY DRIVER (@boshemians) dives into the theme of Paul and John being afraid of themselves in the aftermath of Paul's accident (moped, sexual) with Tara Browne. This one, like "Managing Expectations," ends on a lovely grace note.

MACABRE (@dovetailjoints). Lennon and McCartney go too far.

OPEN HEART (@paisanas). Paul drinks John's blood. John lets him. But Paul starts to hate himself for how much he needs John, which John feels as rejection. I love how this story ends on Paul embracing his need. You can see the painful, bare bones of their malnourished love under the lush sensuality of the vampire sex. Raw and rich.

SILENCE (@ohjohnnysblog). Short and piercing. If there is someone you love—tell them. Don't wait.

THE LATE, GREAT JOHNNY ACE (@midchelle). Reeling with grief, Paul is recording an album in 1981. George and Ringo are there. John is not. But in the end—he is. And they touch. I've always admired Paul's resilience in the face of having to perform or "prove" his love of John in public, and this story showed me, without sugar-coating, where this resilience comes from.

Light, hope, and fixing things:

There is also much lightness and brightness in McLennon, because John and Paul were ridiculous, and horny, and weird. And also: they deserve a laugh. They deserve the fluffiest of happy endings. They deserve high-quality, life-affirming smut. They deserve silly, because silly is what they were. You know their names, look up their number.

1980. John is in BERMUDA (@scurator), Paul visits. Paul comes prepared, John just comes. Sometimes, it can be this simple. This story always leaves me in such a good mood. Paul is the (more) experienced one, and it...really works for me.

GOT TO GET DOWN (@eveepe): In praise of John's obsession with Paul's...precious. His small and perfect prick.

ADVENTURES IN TOTAL HONESTY (@merseydreams). Pithy and sexy, and, I quote from the tags: #Excessive Margarita Mixing.

ANINUT (@pauls1967moustache): The Beatles heal, together and separately, after Brian's death. Once more, I quote the writer: "The Beatles did not follow any of the Jewish mourning traditions, and frankly, they should have."

The unhinged weirdness of the Mad Day Out, with John and Paul escaping and Francie, Yoko and Mal not missing them...much, is rightfully celebrated in one of the insaner stories I read: JOHN, I'M ONLY DANCING (@skylikeaflame)

FAIR'S FAIR (@javelinbk): John and Paul are being silly during a press conference, resulting in acute arousal requiring John's skilled intervention. I love the unexpected care and tenderness in this one!

WHERE THE POETS WENT (RedheadAmongWolves): Tender and enchanted story in which Paul and John go to a bookstore, where they're not as famous as everywhere else. As delicate as the chiming doorbells and the pages murmuring around them.

TAKEN AWAY (@crumblingcookies) Extraterrestrial Intelligence intervenes to reunite John and Paul.

CAN I TAKE MY FRIEND TO BED? (manhattanvalleys). Paul fucks the band in sequence and gets off in the end, as is his due. This is a story like Prince's KISS. No filler, all effect.

THEY SAY IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY (@ohjohnnysblog). Warm and nostalgic phone sex in the 70's.

KEEP THE LIGHT WE'RE GIVEN (@backbenttulips). Amidst the rise of Beatlemania, Paul and John expect their first child. This is Paul's 1962 diary.

More Outsider POV's:

STILL MATES (@pauls1967moustache): in 1968, Peter Asher takes the leap to act on his feelings for his sister's spiraling ex fiancé. This isn't about Paul as much as about Peter, and who he wants to be. Gutting character study. It made me love Peter.

ANOTHER GIRL (@boshemians): Astrid reunites with the Beatles during the making of AHDN and registers their words and deeds with the same stark objectivity as her camera. I love how she seeks the shelter of obscurity while they are being dragged into the limelight. But she sees them, wherever they are. J/P in this story feels incredibly real to me.

WHY BUY THE COW (RedheadAmongWolves). The milkman sees everything on his early morning rounds: the arrival of a nice new family, the McCartneys, the mother's illness, the sadness after her death...and the arrival of a new love in the older son's life. He shouldn't approve—should say something, in fact. But a small inner voice holds him back.

SLEEPLESS IN WALES (thinkpink20). Mike overhears Paul and John whisper in bed. He doesn't understand everything they say. I do. Adorable.

Not each other's first love, but each other's true love

THIS YEAR'S FOR ME AND YOU (@skylikeaflame): After a long life, after deep and loving partnerships with other people, John and Paul, encouraged by their grown-up children, finally meet their mutual love head on. A festive story about waiting the perfect amount of time.

THERE ARE ALWAYS FLOWERS (tarenas): The Beatles are in the past; John and Paul's love is in ashes. Paul, who is fragile and bereft, lives with George, who is content. The four ex-Beatles unite for the second wedding of Mike McCartney. At times, the aching grief in this story is almost unbearable. But the love between George and Paul is unusual and real. This is unfinished. I'll keep waiting for the final chapter.

Beyond J/P

WANT ME WHEN I'M NOT THERE (@backbenttulips): Linda catches Paul cheating on her with John. She divorces him. Finally: a story that puts her most likely reaction front and center, with no mercy for the messed-up geniuses.

In the Rebecca-AU LOVE LIKE GHOSTS (@backbenttulips), Yoko becomes Mrs. Lennon. Soon, she discovers that her husband is haunted by the ghost of his first love. It's pleasing how well this re-telling matches the events as they (alas) (almost) happened. The ending is chilling. Genuinely horrifying. I love seeing Yoko as the sensible one and as the focus of empathy.

THE BASS LESSON (@aquarianshift). Paul and Stu fool around without letting go of their mutual resentment for even a moment. And it works. "Let's never do this again." I don't think so.

TELL ME ALL MY LOVE'S IN VAIN (@midchelle). Forget about quote unquote platonically obsessed male rock stars: This about about Maureen and Patti through the years. The web weaving continues.

SPOTLIGHT ON JOHN AND STU (@dailyhowl) A love story in letters—too brief, like Stu's life, but sounding as if the writer transcribed their dictation. Some of the best descriptions of what it must have been like to play on stage with the Beatles during the mania are in NO I IN THREESOME (@with-eyes-closed). George finds himself in the beam of attention between John and Paul, and nearly loses his mind. But he's determined to stay and become part of them. Paul is daddy and "fucks like music" as seen through George's eyes. The whole story is vicious and hot and uncomfortable—until there's the love and quiet at the eye of the storm.

Not for the faint of heart! WHAT THE CIGGIE CARTON SAW (@waveofhand): Paul McCartney having his way with cigarettes.

This is getting out of hand...but I'll stop here. There are so many more stories I love. And I can think of many other categories that would deserve their own post.

So, who knows: To be continued?

#fic rec #mclennon #mclennon fanfiction #mclennon fic #asks #fic recs #overall favorites fic recs

351 notes · View notes

genderqueerdykes · 2 days

Note

Different anon, but can you explain what a bullydyke is? I figure asking someone who seems to know a lot about this stuff is better than getting 10 different conflicting answers off of google

that's a great question!

"bulldyke" is an even MORE aggressive form of dyke that is generally speaking weaponized against black people, but has in more recent years come to be weaponized against very masculine lesbians, trans women, trans men, or women interpreted this way. it has a similar history to the black lesbian term "stud" in that black people, queer or not, have been compared to and called animals in areas that have been colonized by white europeans with black slaves for centuries.

we have been compared to livestock such as horses- black men were called "studs" and black women were called "stallions" so it was only natural for colonizers to begin to start using even harsher terms. bulls, as in the animal, are viewed as hyper aggressive, dangerous, mean animals. ugly. unwanted. unlikeable. this is how white colonizers view black folk, so to them, comparing masculine black women to bulls was natural, as white colonizers view black women as too masculine, violent, angry, and aggressive.

part of it comes from how white europeans view the facial and body features of black women as "too masculine". white colonizers became absolutely disgusted at how women of color don't look like white women and began literally dehumanizing black women strictly because they do not find them attractive. language evolved over time, and while i can't tell you exactly when and where bulldyke first became a widely spread term, but i can tell you that even Leslie Feinberg was encountering this term in the 50s, 60s, 70s and so on.

"bulldykes" are seen as the most 'masculine' lesbians, women and people- it's often reserved for people who are so masculine (or perceived to be masculine) that it causes rage and disgust beyond the base level hatred for lesbians, masc women, trans women, trans men, and others who are affected by just the term "dyke". it is also generally targeted toward bigger people, fat or muscular, it doesn't really matter. nowadays it's been broadened to affect all "masculine women", regardless of race, though it still is heavily targeted against black women and people of color in general.

my own (white) mom weaponized this slur against me when i was a kid- and i know part of her reason for doing so is because i'm mixed (dad is black). she would get upset at how i dressed and presented myself, angrily calling me a bulldyke whenever i refused to dress feminine or act feminine. she hated how my face looked, how big my nose was, how strong my jaw was, my hooded, deep set eyes, my heavy brow. she hated that because i was intersex, i started growing a beard.

she would tell me not to look, act or dress the way i did because people would start assuming she was a lesbian, because she "let" me be a big ugly bulldyke. my mom was a closeted lesbian- she constantly told me about how she wished she could sleep with, date and marry women. she projected a lot of her trauma and fear on to me, especially her trauma with being called butch due to how masculine she looked and dressed.

it didn't help that my best friend was a feminine girl who spent most of her time with me. it was to the point where both of our families were calling us lesbos, dykes, and so on. my feminine friend never got called a bulldyke, though. it was only me. because i was mixed, big, fat, never wore makeup, didn't dress feminine, and acted "like a guy". i could not escape the terms bull/dyke and butch all throughout my childhood and teen years and as such these terms are all extremely important to me to reclaim.

especially bulldyke. it's a term that i never expected my own mother to weaponize against me- i was used to being called a dyke, a lesbo, and a butch at school, but not at home. i never really heard other kids call me a bulldyke- it was only my mother who used it against me. it stuck with me

i hope that helps! i know it's hard to find the roots of queer slurs, when they first started being used, and so on. if you have any more questions feel free to ask~

#asks #answers #dyke #bulldyke

35 notes · View notes

karenandhenwillson · 2 months

Text

I think it's sad how on one side the whole fandom bemoans that the concept of found family is so often pressed into the nuclear family idea instead of exploring different structures that still mean family. And then on the other side, somehow both sides of the current discourse (if one can even use that word) go on and press the Buckley-Diaz family into this nuclear family idea to support their arguments.

There is the anti-Tommy and anti-Bucktommy side. And they go on and on about how neither Eddie nor Buck will ever be able to date someone other than each other because no one will ever fit in their family. Buck and Eddie also won't ever be able to balance a relationship with anyone else and the family they have built. So, it's a foregone conclusion that every other relationship we see will of course eventually be destroyed by Buck and Eddie's friendship. Then there is the pro-Tommy and pro-Bucktommy side. And they go on and on about how, no, Buck and Eddie and Chris aren't really a family. Because for them, too, somehow the pre-existing family unit is threatening the relationship between Buck and Tommy. Because they, too, believe Tommy (or anyone else) wouldn't fit in that relationship construct, wouldn't be able to find his own place in that relationship. And therefore what we see on screen about the depth of that relationship really isn't as deep as it's shown and find one reason after another to support their claim.

We have seen in this show that a family can be so much more than the nuclear family model and still be a very tight nit unit. And I'll go with the assumption for a moment that tumblr is the queer website, so most of the people here should really have experience with found family because it so often works differently for us queer people. (Though, in my personal case, my family structure never resembled much of the nuclear family model even before my parents divorced or I ventured out into the world on my own. Has been fun explaining my family since before I started school: "Yeah, you know. I have nine people I consider grandparents. And that works like this…")

You are falling into the same trap Western* society has installed in our heads for the past 70 or so years. (Because the concept of nuclear family of "father, mother, and 2.5 children" isn't that old! Look at your history and figure out the difference between how families worked before and after the two world wars and why the nuclear family concept was propagated especially starting in the 50s.)

*specifying Western here because I'm really not sure how the historical development was or is outside of Europe and North America. And I'm not risking a research spiral for a short tumblr post. But if anyone wants to share their knowledge or sources, I'm all ears.

#911 abc #evan buckley #tommy kinard #eddie diaz #christopher diaz #bucktommy #eddie

37 notes · View notes

chilly-weirdo-in-a-tomb · 2 months

Note

*Vibrating with excitement* would you like to share opinions on tlt characters zodiac signs. Because I have so many

(Naberius is a Virgo sun Taurus rising imo)

I have a lot of opinions. Bear in mind that I am not an astrology expert and I personally consider zodiac signs simply a fun, sometimes humorous thing and not an end-all, be-all thing. I don’t know a thing about rising signs or moon signs or all that. I don’t even know my own full chart! I’m friends with a very big astrology buff and they—in all seriousness—told me I was born the wrong sign 😂. According to them, I act like a Sagittarius.

But as for my TLT zodiac opinions, I’ve included my thoughts in the tags of each poll I’ve posted. So far, my prediction have been 50/50. I’ll go into more detail about my thoughts in this post, though.

Past polls:

Gideon is an Aries. Two of my best friends are Arieses and they give off the same energy as Gideon. It’s a kind of ‘fuck you if you’re rude, fuck me if you’re hot’ energy. They don’t give a flying fuck what society thinks of them. They’re also incredibly gay. Do I also happen to fall for Aries a lot? Yeah. Am I in love with Gideon Nav? Also yes.

Harrow is a Scorpio. I’m a Scorpio and so is one of my other best friends. I identify a lot with Harrow (we have the same genre of religious trauma/Catholic guilt, as well as a shit ton of grief and loss in our lives), but honestly, I just go with vibes. Incidentally, I’m related to one of people who helped discover Pluto (the planet that rules Scorpio) which is also the Ninth house. Like, legit these bone lesbians are from Pluto. I’ve seen several posts joking about that why Harrow’s so short. Because she’s from a dwarf planet.

Palamedes is a Virgo. This is based solely on one guy I knew in high school. Dude was a walking encyclopedia and had a pair of Pikachu sunglasses. I feel like Pal would wear Pikachu sunglasses.

Camilla my love. I thought Leo. Again based on one person I knew in high school. But Tumblr at large thinks she’s a Virgo and after some thought, I agree.

The Tridentarii are either Leos or Geminis. I said this in the tags, but Leos for personality, Gemini for the meme. My friend from high school is a Leo and she is one of the most driven and determined people I have ever met (so Ianthe it hurts). But she’s also one of the biggest romantics I’ve ever met. Like romantic as in the art/literature movement. She wrote me a fucking poem hyping me up because she saw that I was going through a tough time (self image issues). She compared me to the goddess Athena and I have never been more honored. Ray of fucking sunshine is the most wonderful sense (CORONA AF).

Babs. He was a fucking asshole, but he deserved better than what he got. Taurus. Yet again, based solely on a dude I knew in high school. Voice of an angel that boy. Bust out into a rendition of “A Whole New World” on an escalator one time and no one complained because it sounded so good. But a low key asshole. Not entirely unexpected as he was a tenor. Yes I am throwing shade at tenors. Most tenors (and many sopranos) in my experience are bitchy as fuck. Naberius Tern has tenor energy. Polls ended with Leo taking the win, with Aquarius a close second.

Other:

Dulcinea. The real Dulcinea. My other love. She’s horny for revenge and I love it. Chronic illness Queen. Like, can we please talk about the representation in this series? We have all manner of queer representation, mental illness rep, and chronic illness/disability rep! I know that *spoilers* it’s actually Cytherea in GtN, but then the real Dulcie shows up to be a bad bitch in HtN and I am in love with yet another TLT character. She’s a Libra and I love her.

OUR LADY OF FUCKING PASSION. Pash. TLT’s John the Baptist (take a look at Alecto Theory 11 for more on that). Capricorn. I don’t think I know any Capricorns irl, but from what I know of them, she’s a classic Capricorn.

So yeah, those are my thoughts.

#I’m sorry to the person who asked this because it sat forgotten in my drafts for months #gideon the ninth #harrow the ninth #nona the ninth #the locked tomb #tlt series #tlt brainrot #zodiac #zodiac signs

21 notes · View notes

respectthepetty · 1 year

Text

Before I get into the "What the hell is happening in episode ten of Hidden Agenda?" let me enjoy Joke looking at Zo like Zo is his entire world. I'm going to soak it in because this episode, for me, a person with nothing but wild ass theories, was DELICIOUSLY WILD!

So now - What the hell is happening?!

Joke does have beef with his parents. He doesn't want them around for his birthday, and that's why he only chills with his grandma. Wild Theory approved ✔

Which leads into the overall topic of this episode - Childhood trauma from our parents and how it influences us as adults.

Because Zo hesitates in his decisions since Puen gaslight-gatekeep-geekboss-ed him, and his mother reacted poorly to the incident.

Oh so poorly.

And because of the immense pressure Zo feels to "make up" for his flaws, he believes winning this tournament will prove his worth even though his mom was subtly insulting him by questioning if he could handle harder topic. "Paging Dangerous Romance's Kanghan to stage"

He even told Joke that he wanted to wait to tell his parents about them until after he won the tournament, but PSA to my fellow queers - being queer is not a flaw, so no amount of prize winning or abiding by societal norms will please people. Which is why Jeng had to quit the soccer club. Que triste.

And Zo and Joke are in the same our-families-are-not-really-accepting boat

Because statistically, 50% of families suck.

But, even though it was framed as a positive because Joke was concerned about Zo, Joke still crossed a line to help Zo and went through Pat in order to get Zo's address. This was THE issue last episode, so did Joke really learn his lesson? That's gonna be a "no" from me, dawg.

Which might be the reason we see barriers pop back up between them next week while they are boxed in. (Time skip in episode 12 or Director Tee is playing!)

But the real meat of this episode was Wave x Trin. Wild Theory approved ✔

These two haven't made it a secret that they have beef, but Wave finally gave the reason when he stated Joke would ruin Zo's chances of winning.

I DO think shit is gonna go down with this competition and the scholarship because of Joke's constant line crossing to protect Zo, but Zo pressing the issue with Wave shows growth in his character.

And it's no surprises the Joke-to-Trin pipeline was the true issue.

But this backstory was very much in the same realm as Puen-gaslighting-Zo, and . . .

Zo is right. Wave not having feelings for Trin is fine and dandy,

but I hope this conversation about separating school and personal doesn't come back to bite Zo in the ass the way it did Alan in Moonlight Chicken, and if Wave is apologizing, I need it notarized and publicized because he PUNCHED Trin as a result of Trin's confession when a simple "no" would have been suffice.

Now that I have my 1) Joke's parents ain't shit theory crumbs, and 2) Wave x Trin have tension theory good to go, it's still time for my 3) Kot has feeling for Pat theory to get some light, and 4) we are getting a time skip for episode 12 because something will happen in episode 11 that calls back to the freshy contest outcome.

I ate well today.

#Hidden Agenda #episode 10 #give me a time skip Tee #do it because Joke hasn't learned his lesson #and give me Pat and Kot #long post

78 notes · View notes

the-conversation-pod · 1 year

Text

Summer 2023 Ep 2 - The Eighth Sense

AND WE'RE BACK!

It seems like every season we're going to have a single show dominate the conversation and the zeitgeist so much that we have to dedicate an entire episode to it! This season it was the Korean-German team-up about a boy so sprung that he joined a surfing club even though he couldn't swim. Strap in for a long discussion!

Nini and Ben dive deep into The Eighth Sense to discuss the international nature of BL, the way film history plays into our stories, the role of forgiveness in our lives, and the role of community in queer development.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Google Podcasts

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond to chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

0:00 - Welcome 1:04 - The Eighth Sense 18:00 - The Relationship Between the Seniors and Juniors 27:45 - The Hedwig Incident 36:32 - Ae Ri 42:50 - Ji Hyun and Jae Won 50:38 - Joon Pyo and Boss Lady 56:28 - Let's Talk About the Kissing (and Episode 6) 1:06:21 - The Party Scene and Forgiveness 1:17:14 - On a Possible Second Season 1:24:10 - Checking in Two Months Later

The Conversation: Now With Transcripts!

We received an accessibility request to include transcripts for the podcast. We are working with @ginnymoonbeam on providing the transcripts and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

1:04 - The Eighth Sense

Ben

Welcome to The Eighth Sense episode! Nini and I had so much to say about this that we decided to give it its own episode, separate from our overall consternation from whatever is going on in the land of K-BL, because this felt distinct. This was a piece of work from a German and a Korean filmmaking team, and it created unique results. So we're going to speak to you all for the next hour and a half? [laughs] about it, and then we'll come back at the end with some reactions to the show and how we're feeling about it a few months later.

Nini

Let's go.

Nini

We are here today to talk about The Eighth Sense, and only The Eighth Sense. Benjamin. What is The Eighth Sense about?

Ben

See I had her a little bit annoyed before we started talking. She gives my full name because she's still mad at me for being obnoxious. The Eighth Sense —

Nini

[laughs]

Ben

The Eighth Sense is an age gap college romance between a new freshman from the Korean countryside and a very wealthy Korean man, who is the heir of his family, who's recently back from military service and trying to finish school. They kind of meet by happenstance at the freshman's job and instantly have a connection between them which they both find themselves drawn to and pulling on.

And over the course of the show the freshman, Ji Hyun, ends up joining the surfing club to hang out with Jae Won, the senior, and a romance blossoms between them… but we hit a lot of very familiar western queer storytelling drama beats. It blends fairly well with the Korean storytelling beats, as these two eventually choose each other as they're trying to move forward with their lives. Much drama ensues because of the older boy’s deep mental health issues. It's a really simple plot. It's just incredibly well executed.

Nini

Well, let's talk a little bit about that execution. So this is a… it's a Korean production but it's co-directed by a Korean director, Baek Inu, and a German director, Werner du Plessis. And I think that that interplay between the two filmmaking styles, between some of the hallmarks of Korean filmmaking and then some of the hallmarks of like classic German bildungsroman… They interplay really interestingly I think, in terms of the way that it's executed. A lot of people are saying that The Eighth Sense made them think of Skam? I have not watched Skam so I can't really speak to that, but in terms of certain aspects of the techniques of the filmmaking that I've seen, in terms of lighting and color and all of those things, I could see the comparisons that they're making.

But I feel like this show… it's something all its own? We've talked on this show about how K-BL was starting to get a little repetitive and feel like it wasn't, you know, using its time well and all those other things. And I think that those are criticisms that you can't level at The Eighth Sense. It does use its time well. I feel like it is well thought through, I feel like it uses its budget well, I feel like it… really engages me, like I'm not going to forget these characters. I'm not going to forget Ji Hyun, Eun Ji, Tae Hyung, Jae Won, Joon Pyo, Yoon Won, [laughs] I'm not going to forget these characters. You know what I mean? These characters have sort of touched something inside of me, particularly Jae Won.

I feel like it came along at just the right time for me to not write off K-BL. [laughs]

Ben

I mean, is it really K-BL, though?

Nini

Well, that's the question isn't it? Because a lot of people are like, ‘oh this isn't, this isn’t BL.’ I think it's very firmly BL, but I don't know how much it feels like K-BL.

Ben

It is not relying on… the tropes or beats of traditional yaoi, as evolved by Thailand's fiddling with the formula, and what's recently been happening in Korea over the last three years-ish. When you called it like a German coming of age thing, I can feel some of those influences here. In terms of the pacing, and the knowing.

So one of the things that BL is not very good at doing that I don't always enjoy is… BL doesn't know how to make characters always gay. Like their queerness activates when it's relevant, because they're thinking about it now. It isn't… built really into the way the character is functioning. But when you're writing queer cinema, a queer character is always queer. It is always complicating their life in some way, and that feels present here with Ji Hyun and Jae Won. Particularly when it comes to the ways that two of them engage with each other.

Ji Hyun gets clocked constantly by everyone, because he's obvious to them. Jae Won and he bump into each other at the restaurant and recognize each other, flirt outside of the restaurant. Ae Ri recognizes these things in him very quickly and she starts covering for him; Eun Ji sees this in him right away, and beefs with him immediately over Jae Won. Yoon Won I think picks up on it right away, which is why she's always calling him cutie. And I think the boss picks up on it too, which is why she's kind of protective of him.

This works for me because he's so clearly different, and I like how he clearly had these big dreams about ‘I'm going to move to the city and I'm going to live my best gay life.’ Then he moved to the city and got scared, because it's such a big place, all these strangers, and it's confusing because he's not used to dealing with urban systems… And so like, he immediately retreated a little bit. He just picked up a job, so he would only have to deal with one person, because it's like a one woman operation and like the freshman temp worker she's relying on? [laughs] And I think that's one of the big things that separates it for me with most of the BL we've experienced, like Ji Hyun always feels gay for me, in the way that Ji Hyun is very… protective of himself but very honest in general. Like Ji Hyun doesn't offer himself up easily to other people, but he's consistently honest and forthright with them. And like, after his big ol’ incident — where he almost dies, and I’m calling it ‘the incident’ [laughs] — he turns really sassy, but he's still being honest, he's just not tempering that. And also he's a little bit pissy, because he has a right to be.

So like that's the biggest, I think, line between like, BL per se, and what we might call queer cinema, when I'm watching them. Like their queerness is not active only when they're flirting, like other BL characters often feel for me.

Nini

Hmmm. That's something to ponder… It is clear that Ji Hyun does get clocked pretty regularly. You know I always have a soft spot for the ones who can't hide, and… so, I can get like why the boss is protective of him, why Joon Pyo is protective of him — like, even though Joon Pyo doesn't really know? He knows something, but he doesn't really know that Ji Hyun is queer, and it's this really funny scene when he finds out in the end, and he's just really upset that, you know, Ji Hyun didn’t tell him that he had a boyfriend.

Ji Hyun feels recognizably queer, in some intangible way? Like I think about my gay friends and my gay family, and… that thing that you said about a person who is gay being gay all the time and not just when they're flirting with somebody? [laughs] That really resonated [both laugh] Thaaaat really resonated, and I think is also a little bit of shots fired for some of BL.

Ben

I don't know that I want to fire shots at the other dramas in this regard, because… it's not fair. Because some of these things are intangible, you can't really always do them really well or correctly. It's not like I have obvious guidance, like ‘hey, here are the five tips to make your character seem authentically queer when you're writing your little stories!’ [both laugh] And like, that's not fair.

What I can do as a amateur critic, is point out that this character reads queer to me: from the little gay rainbow lamp he has, to the way he had big dreams for the city then feels a little bit disappointed about it, to the way he sees a really hot boy and immediately decides to do — to join a dangerous club just to get some dick. Like that's the kind of dumb shit that baby gays do! Like can you swim? No. So you joined the surfing club? Was — was the dick even that good? Yeahhh. All right, well, shit! [both laugh]

Nini

The man said that, before he nearly died, he was the happiest he had ever been in his life. He literally said that. [laughs]

Ben

This poor boy's whole brain got rearranged by some good dick! God damn.

Nini

Our other protagonist is Jae Won. Jae Won is a poor little rich boy, he's a tragic figure with a tragic past.

Ben

He's a sad little meow meow.

Nini

He really is the saddest little meow meow. It’s up in the air whether he's closeted or not. I don't feel like he is? But I also feel like he doesn't advertise. Because it doesn't feel like any of his angst about Ji Hyun is about the idea of him dating a guy. It doesn't feel that way.

Ben

Jae Won feels therapized. He… definitely is aware of his queerness, and seems mostly inconvenienced by it. His father is described as aggressive, and there's all of these pressures on him to be a certain kind of man, and a certain kind of son. Like they get mad about how emotional he is, they get mad that he's out drinking with his friends… so he's definitely been forced to be closeted about it? So I think he is definitely aware of it, and the reason why I think he's aware of it is, Ji Hyun calls him out on it in the last episode, when he's like, ‘You had a lighter in your pocket, the first night you met me.’

Nini

It's not that I feel like he doesn't know himself, like he knows himself, I think that much is clearly obvious in the story, he knows himself. The question is whether the people around him know. I feel like Eun Ji definitely knows, that's why she's so im— one of the reasons she's so immediately hostile to Ji Hyun, because she knows.

Ben

She knows, but I don't think he's told her. He just feels really modern about it, like, yes he's gay, if you ask him directly he'd probably just shrug and be like yeah, sure, whatever, but people aren't going to ask him that. They don't want to cross that line, because they want to use him, and trying to embarrass him about that is just gonna get you iced out of his life. Again, like we know that the surfing dudes hadn't really considered it, because they're like no, Jae Won's not that way. That's also like the men, though. Like every single girl in the story clocked every single gay boy the whole time. The boss, Eun Ji, Ae Ri, Yoon Won, all clocked Jae Won and Ji Hyun. And Jae Won didn't even know about it, because Yoon Won was like ‘you better do right by that boy,’ he's like ‘what are you talking about?’ and she was like ‘girl!’ and he was like ‘all right, shit.’ [laughs]

Nini

Jae Won is not closeted but he's not out either. Let's put it that way.

Ben

I think he was closeted by default, but he had already worked through the, ‘if I really connect with someone, I will step out for them.’ And you can feel that, with the way he tries to casually say to the boss, ‘yeah I have feelings about my boyfriend,’ and the way he's forthright about it with Ji Hyun. Because I feel like he had emotionally prepared for the moment? And once he decided to commit to it, all of that work came out right away.

Nini

Well, even before he says it to the boss or to Ji Hyun, he says it to the guy at the, at the rest stop, when they're heading off to that fateful trip. It's not even a big deal for him to say that. And that's why I was wondering like, well is he closeted or is, has just nobody just ever asked him about it? And I think I'm going to land on your side of things here with, probably nobody ever asked him about it, and he didn't feel the need to announce it.

Ben

Right, and I think that's where — that's, that's mostly how he reads to me.

Nini

Do you think that Tae Hyung knew?

Ben

Yes, because he kisses him all the time. But, he knows it in the way that stupid-ass straight boys know. Where they know, and they want the attention, and they kind of want it, but they would have to be gay and they can't actually do that. Which is why he gets so… bothered about Jae Won caring about other stuff. It's the same thing we see all the time, he gets mad that he's not being paid attention to, or that Jae Won doesn't care about the things he wants him to care about. Or isn't being as miserable as they want him to be.

Nini

You know what I think is actually a subtle hint? In the first few episodes of the show, the way that Tae Hyung keeps pushing Jae Won and Eun Ji together, keeps pushing them towards each other, keeps bringing Eun Ji into the spaces. Now that I'm thinking about it, at the beginning I just never quite figured out why it mattered so much to him? But now, it makes like a strange kind of sense, if he knew or if he at least suspected… why he would keep shoving Eun Ji at him.

Ben

Right, because if she — he chooses Eun Ji, it's at least, like, the woman that he was okay with, I guess. And like it gives him some sort of weird control or investment in whatever they have going on. I feel like at some level Tae Hyung knows. But again like that's part of why this show feels more queer for me than some other stuff, because we're having this really complex conversation about who knows, doesn't know, at what level do they know, what does their knowing imply about the way they perceive Jae Won — like that's the world real queer people exist in. Where it isn't just who knows, it's what do they do with the knowledge.

Nini

I'm really recasting, like, my initial reactions of the whole Tae Hyung, Jae Won thing.

Ben

I mean if you, I don't know if you remember, I hated that motherfucker from the very first time we saw him! [both laugh]

Nini

Ben could not stand his ass from jump.

Ben

Like, the very first episode I was like, ‘oh I hate this boy so much Nini!’ [laughs] and she was like ‘damn bro, they just had like one fight!’ and I'm like, ‘oh no, it was not just one fight.’

18:00 - The Relationships Between the Seniors and Juniors

Nini

Speaking of fights between Jae Won and Tae Hyung, perfect segue.

Ben

Let's talk about him tagging that ass though.

Nini

We're kinda jumping around here, and one of the reasons that we're jumping around is I feel like, talking about The Eighth Sense, like it doesn't really, it's not really useful to talk about it in some kind of chronology, or in terms of the plot. The plot's there and the plot is good…

Ben

The plot is… a country boy snags a chaebol. It's very good.

Nini

Yeah, the plot is very simple, I feel like The Eighth Sense, the, the real meat of the discussion is in the relationships — in all the different interactions that these characters have bouncing off of each other, in some of the ways that they interact with society? I feel like that's more of where the meat of talking about the story comes from. There's going to be a lot of jumping around in this discussion I think because of that.

Ben

We’ll talk about Tae Hyung, but more specifically we'll talk about how strong the characterization is for all of these characters. Like the biggest thing that's interesting about this show is, all the seniors are miserable horrible people.

Nini

Terrible. [laughs]

Ben

All of the freshmen are not — but some of them could be. I think that's Bit Na's role in the story. Yoon Won, Eun Ji, and Jae Won are all seniors who probably should have graduated already, but because of the funding model of school and how you need to get a job, they're all stuck and they hate it. They're having the millennial problem of, we were told that if we were really good at school and we went to college and checked all the boxes, we would get decent jobs, marry wives, live in the suburbs, have a van, and have two point three kids. And uh… we didn't! And we've lived through crisis after crisis for… literally 22 years, and it sucks!

And so like I get why Yoon Won, Eun Ji, Jae Won, and Tae Hyung are so frustrated and so pissed about all of it. And like they can't even be happy about any of it, like Tae Hyung wasn't drafted, but it's not like it worked out for him, it's not like he got to do anything useful with school, and like get ahead and go work somewhere, which is why like he's glomping back on to Jae Won. Because he's his last hope, that maybe somehow Jae Won getting control of his dad's company will get him a useful job, and maybe he won't be such a piece of shit. But he's such a selfish prick that he can't do anything with it.

Eun Ji is clearly a status chaser, and she really wants to be the wife of a chaebol. And that's why she's trying to lock Jae Won down.

Yoon Won is the only person that Jae Won ends up having a real connection with, because she's frustrated, but she's trying to do something positive, like ‘hey I'm gonna be stuck in school for a while but I'm [gonna] try and keep the surfing club afloat while I'm here. I hope you can get a chance to relax and I'm really glad that you came back and helped us out because — you’re really good at it, and I'm really glad that you're here.’ Like, she's the only person who's thankful for Jae Won's presence because he offered it. And she asks for literally nothing else beyond him except, ‘so hey you feel like getting a pizza and a beer with me? I really want to go to this place but the guy only speaks English even though he lives in fucking Korea.’

Nini

[laughs] That was bizarre.

Ben

And he's gonna be such a dick about it! That felt like a dig at foreigners moving to Korea.

[both laugh]

Nini

I completely agree that Yoon Won feels like the only person who is interested in Jae Won and not in what Jae Won can do for them, in terms of the seniors. And that's why their… thing works. And Jae Won says it when they're drinking in that foreigner's bar. He's like, ‘you know, when we started school I really didn't like you. But now you're kind of the only person who—’ [laughs] Basically he tells her that she's the only person he doesn't hate, so.

Ben

Right? And he call — she calls him out, like ‘I know you hated me, you piece of shit. But it's fine. We're cool now.’ [laughs] But again like, in terms of like, early episodes… she's the only person in the series [who] respects what he wants. She's like ‘Okay, I'll take the new kid because he clearly can't swim. You take the two girls, because you gay, you ain't gonna do nothing with them girls. Teach them girls how to swim right.’ He's like ‘No. I wanna go with the boy.’ She's like ‘Girl. Are you sure?’ and he's like ‘Nah nah nah, I really wanna go hang out with this boy.’ ‘Allll right.’ [laughs]

But again, everyone else disrespects him — ignores his stated desires, constantly. Yoon Won is the only person in the show who, when he says he wants something, she lets him have it. And then she's like ‘Hey the cute boy drew a picture of you… wanna see it?’

[both laugh]

Nini

She gives him so much shit in like her own way, I love it. You know I’m all about besties who give you shit, you know that's my favorite, [laughs] that's my favorite trope. Besties givin’ you shit.

But yeah, so you've got all the seniors who are stuck and miserable because, I mean, other than Jae Won — if they all came in at the same time, other than Jae Won because of his military service — they should have all graduated already. And the fact that they haven't, and they're all there just kind of, you know, sitting there miserable staring at each other, is a big commentary on everything.

So compare them to all the freshmen. Now, the freshmen are… still young and hopeful and they have all this energy and all that stuff, and it’s such a contrast to the seniors who’re all fucking miserable. Even though there's fear there, particularly, like sort of shown up in the person of Ji Hyun, there's still this kind of enthusiasm? And then there's this brightness that comes off of them? And you kind of understand why Yoon Won and Jae Won gravitate, kind of, towards the freshman. And they feel protective of them, and they, they want them to have a good experience? That's one of the things that I really enjoyed about, for example, the surfing trip. They really invest in making sure that the freshmen have a good experience, like they keep the skeevy senior guys away from them…. they tell them they don't have to drink, they tell Tae Hyung, like, stop being a creep.

Ben

Right? They keep telling him to fuck off, they're like, ‘None of these rituals or things you're supposed to do that we did did anything for us. It didn't move us forward, it didn't make us closer to our seniors, it didn't help us succeed at school. We just got bullied by people who are older than us. And you hated it too, so chill the fuck out.’

Nini

Yeah! I like how invested they are, Jae Won and Yoon Won, in making sure that the freshmen have a good time, and that they're taken care of and protected. I really did like that. Like, it's almost like they want to help them preserve their innocence for a little bit longer, which I found was a great commentary to be quite frank… [laughs] I did love that. And then you also see, like you were mentioning in the character Bit Na, you're seeing somebody who could go along that trajectory towards misery, that landed Eun Ji and Tae Hyung where they are now.

Ben

Exactly, it's implied that she's doing all the things, like, you're Expected To Do(™), but there's a little bit of her being like ‘No I'm not gonna drink all that stuff from you’ and like at the end, like, she's furious with Tae Hyung. She's like, ‘No! I know that you've been causing problems for me, because you have a possessive crush on me. Fuck you. Get out of here.’

Nini

Scram! Beat it! [laughs]

Ben

Pulls out her little spray bottle: sks sks sks Move! [both laugh] Go on now, get!

Nini

So, she's sort of the antagonistic force that's pushing back against that stuff, while Ji Hyun and Ae Ri are more like that force that's laughing at that stuff. One is like, dismissive, and the other is… antagonistic. And it's two ways of dealing with the same thing.

Ben

I love how when the two of them start to bond, they just turn into like the meanest little catty duo. They're like ‘Oh well she hasn’t mentioned you at all” and “Oh has she really not? If I had a crush and had a best friend I know that I would be talking to my best friend about the crush, so… it's really embarrassing for you that she really hasn't mentioned you at all to her, right? Oh geez.’

Nini

[laughs] And he says that and then he doesn't tell Joon Pyo about his crush. Terrible.

Ben

And that's why Joon Pyo was pissed.

27:45 - The Hedwig Incident

Nini

Let’s talk about Ji Hyun and Ae Ri being catty for a second. So, we've already seen Ji Hyun and Ae Ri in class making fun of, like people giving their presentations… for this class on, I guess some kind of film studies course or whatever, because they're doing these presentations about films that they've watched or whatever. So we've seen them doing their little mean girl duo act in class already, where they, you know, kind of quietly snicker at whoever is in front of the class at the point in time — which I mean, come on, who hasn't done that with your friend in class? [laughs]

When Ji Hyun comes back from his accident, the one that they're making fun of — and this is the part that I wasn't quite sure what they were trying to say, because I didn't recognize the character. So at first I didn't know if it was a character we had already met or if it was just a character that we hadn't seen before. And I think not knowing that also made things a little more difficult to parse? Because you get the sense from the way that this character talks to them that this is a character we're supposed to know who it is. That we have seen before or something. But I don't recognize him. Anyway. So this character is doing their presentation on Hedwig and the Angry Inch, which is a… queer classic?

Ben

I have not commented on this particular moment on Tumblr, because I didn't feel like getting flamed? But this is The Conversation! So I will say what needs to be said. So a big part of this film critic class that they're taking is that most of these presentations people are giving are only doing surface level reads of the source material. And this guy's read is not that deep either, but he dresses as Hedwig and thinks like he should be getting a lot of points for that. Whereas, they give a really solid read that understands the themes being explored in the Park Chan-wook film…

Nini

I’m a Cyborg, But That’s Okay?

Ben

They give a really solid presentation, they clearly understood the themes involved, but their presentation didn't have a lot of pizzazz, and they barely passed the class team. But they don't really care, because they took what they needed from the course: they engaged with the source material, they understood it, and they moved on, whereas he's cosplaying as Hedwig, a gay character. Does he appreciate the life of this gay character?

Which for me felt like this show taking shots at performative queerness happening with BL in particular. A lot of these boys are cosplaying as gay: do they understand gay people? Do they understand the lives we live? Like you're sitting here beefing with me, an actual gay, and my hag over our presentation. But do you have any appreciation for who we are? Why don't you go ahead and scamper your ass down a little gay district off here and figure out what gay people actually live through? Like people didn't like that because they thought it read as transphobic, which it probably did, and I'm not going to begrudge people what they took from it. But for me I read it as you can cosplay as us, but you ain't us.

Nini

Hm. So I have never watched Hedwig, so… I couldn't really get a read on what they were trying to do with this? Because I didn't know if what the guy was saying had any weight of understanding to it.

Ben

It didn't… like even just knowing the film by reputation alone, and knowing older gay men who loved it, his read on it was weak. And it's, that's what, that's what I got, like — I don't want to drag anybody who is like ‘this is transphobic, and gay people should be better’ — it's also a surface level read on what's going on there. You're reacting to the fact that they diss a guy in drag, but not why they dissed a guy in drag — who started beef with them! I come from the school of talk shit get hit. So. [laughs]

Nini

[laughs] My main reaction to it, like I said because I, I don't have the… the context. Right? So my reaction to it was just kind of confused? I think that's what my overwhelming reaction was. I was confused by what was happening, I wasn't sure. I'm seeing all the takes, you know saying this is transmisogyny, this is transphobic, this is this that and the other, but the only thing that didn't read right to me about those takes — again, acknowledging that I didn't have the context — was that I don't know that this guy is part of queerness.

Ben

You know he ain't one of us because he couldn't walk in heels! You don't cosplay as Hedwig and not walk in heels.

Nini

Fair.

Ben

It's fine… The reason why I let everybody have it is, it was a deep cut and it wasn't for everybody. And that's kind of why I love The Eighth Sense because, the people who don't do their homework, who don't do the research on the genre history, who don't watch this stuff, who don't really engage in complex interactions with queerness — they kind of miss these sort of things. And I think that's okay, like, does the interaction read a little transphobic? It does. Do gay men's interactions with drag queens and other trans people often read transphobic? Hell yeah, they do! But I got it.

Like, is it a great interaction? No, but… you ain't gonna last long in queer spaces if you can't handle a botched interaction.

Nini

I feel like it was probably the only really clunky part of the show, in that it wasn't clear. I feel like everything else that happened in the show was, it was very clear — it was abundantly clear what the show was saying, what the characters were saying and feeling, what they were trying to do. But I feel like this moment, this particular interaction, was the only time I felt like the show got a little… got a little clumsy.

Ben

It's the only indulgent thing that the show really does. It's the German director's favorite film, and he was taking a dig at people who get caught up in the fact that there's… gender performance stuff in Hedwig, and the wearing of the wig and dressing as a woman stuff, but they're missing, maybe the meat of the story. They focus on the wigs and the makeup, but not the person and the story.

I have this particular beef too, like — I had an interaction with a colleague about what parts of queer cinema that they should maybe check out. And they really just wanted me to validate the things they wanted to watch. And that's kind of how this guy reads to me… like, the gay boy in the room is laughing at his performance. ‘How dare you laugh at my performance, I know I did my fucking research, I know gay people!’ [both laugh] That's — that's how that felt for me. Like, bro, why are you in my face? Like, go drink your juice Shelby, shit!

Nini

When you just said it like that, it made me think about white gays appropriating the language of the ballroom.

Ben

Well yeah, exactly, that's exactly what it feels like! Like… you aren't us, but you're wearing us. And it's fine, like you can get your little grade, you can make your little coins. But like, the rest of us are still here, trying to create queer lives that have meaning and comfort to them. Are you going to be with us there? That’s, like, if we're going to beef with this show for being rude to a guy in drag… what have you done for us lately? Like you might be queer too, and I don't mean to make you feel bad… but also if you're queer and all you do is watch BL, there's way more work to be done sweetie!

Let go of your beef about the Hedwig scene, go watch Hedwig. Go watch I'm a Cyborg, But That's Okay. Then go watch the fucking sequences where these kids gave weak-ass takes about these really classic films, and then understand why they were getting laughed at by the teacher too. Like sure you dressed as Hedwig, but do you appreciate her? No? Okay, you get a B plus, I guess. Thank you for wearing drag.

It's not the most elegant moment in the thing? But it's one of those moments that it's like: who knows and who doesn't know?

36:32 - Ae Ri

Ben

Let's just talk about some fun gay shit. Let’s talk about Ae Ri! [laughs]

Nini

Ae Ri’s an interesting character. Ae Ri is a Seoul kid, so she's not like a country mouse innocent like Ji Hyun. She's with it, she knows what's going on, she, she understands the haps, you know what I mean? She's savvy. And she becomes Ji Hyun’s…

Ben

She becomes a hag. Let's call her what she is. Let's give her the term of endearment that we used to hand out to the best of the ladies.

Nini

She becomes the hag, yes, she becomes his fairy godmother. The way that she just kind of scoops Ji Hyun up? And is just like, ‘oh you poor little baby, come, let me help you because you very clearly need help’ [laughs] I just think that's delightful. I think that the way that their friendship develops — because at first Ji Hyun is convinced that she has a crush on him. And honestly, I'm not sure that he was wrong.

Ben

Elaborate.

Nini

I think that she clocked him when she had actually like, spent time with him?

Ben

I don't think she was paying attention to him until he drank the — until he drank the liquor for them, and then she's like, ‘Why would he do that, because all he does is look at Jae Won — Ohhh.’ [laughs]

Nini

Yeah, I feel like that's, that's where we go with this, it’s like ‘Aww! He's nice! Let me go scoop him up because he clearly needs help! Because he is not going to make it like this.’

Ben

He did though, like he needed somebody to be like ‘Bro. If you're trying to be closeted, because it seems like you are, let me just be clear: you’re doing a terrible job sweetie. Also? Them fits is busted. We need to buy you some clothes, like immediately. We're going shopping right now.’

Nini

It's like, ‘You’re trying to get Jae Won's attention? This is not how you do it. Okay, we're gonna need to accentuate those eyes darling. Ok?’ [laughs]

She's the best girl. She ends up being protective of Ji Hyun, and because she's protective of Ji Hyun she also becomes protective of the people that Ji Hyun cares about, and Ji Hyun cares about Jae Won. So she becomes protective of Jae Won [laughs]. And she has claws! And she will use them. We talked about it earlier, but that scene where she just very neatly — she and Ji Hyun very neatly take Tae Hyung apart. The reason that they take him apart is because he goes for Jae Won, and Jae Won just looks really sad about it, and they're like ‘Not to-fuckin-day! We are going to end your entire career.’

She's the best girl. She's the best girl. I want her to have everything that she wants. I don't know what she wants, because it's not really clear, but I want her to have whatever she wants. She just seems to be vibin’, and I always love a character who's vibin’.

Ben

The reason why I like Ae Ri is, in a room of seniors being awful to her friend, she stood up and challenged them — and that was scary for her. Like she broke down in tears after that confrontation with the other seniors and Eun Ji. If you read that a certain way you're like, well is she weak or whatever? Like no, it's, it's scary to stand up in front of a bunch of people who are being awful and tell them like no, you guys are mean and this is not right.

Nini

That confrontation among the surf club after Ji Hyun has his accident is so ugly. You really see how self-centered these people are, these seniors. They do not care that this kid nearly died.

Like yeah ok, they're upset about their club getting canceled because it's not technically fair. It's not like, you know, this was a club activity that he got hurt at. So yeah, ok, it's not technically fair, but the claws that they have out! And the way that they completely dismiss that at this point Ji Hyun is still in the hospital! It's not like he's back. He's still in the hospital, and they are so catty and vicious.

Ben

I don't even know if he was conscious at that point.

Nini

Yeah! He's — like he's, they're all so vicious about it. It's like they don't care whether he lives or dies? They don't care about anything other than the fact that this is inconveniencing them. And… that, Ae Ri takes that in, she like feels that, she internalizes that, and she realizes: y'all don't give a fuck about us.

Which, which we’re dealing with like intergenerational relationships, and you're in a situation where you are the low man on the totem pole. You expect a certain amount of care and consideration to be taken with regards to you, because you're, you're the low man on the totem pole, you can't protect yourself necessarily. You need these people to care for and protect you. And… realizing, quite clearly and unambiguously, that these people will not protect her. They will not protect any of them. They don't care. Like I can understand why she breaks down.

Ben

Exactly. Like it's terrifying to realize that the people you're asked to respect do not give a shit about you. They'll demand abasement all the time, but when some shit popped off, did they care about Jae Won? Did they care about Ji Hyun? No, they're like: wow this is awfully inconvenient for us isn't it.

Nini

It was so ugly. I just remember being shocked, like you — I felt that one, you know what I mean? It wasn't just like, the intellectualization of what was happening on screen, I felt that deep somewhere inside of me.

42:50 - Ji Hyun and Jae Won

Ben

My appreciation for The Eighth Sense is more intellectual than it is emotional. I think it's very excellent: I gave it a 9.5 when I rated it? But I'm not… obsessed with the romance of this the way I might have been in another show. I like the way this one unfolds; I really like the way these two talk to each other. I like the way they see each other, I like that they totally misunderstood each other after the near-death crisis moment, and I like that other people pulled their heads out of their asses for them, so that they could be together, and then they followed through on that.

But because this is just a very ‘boy likes boy’ sort of story, there isn't really a whole lot to say about the romance, but I do think we should take some time to unpack how we see Jae Won and Ji Hyun engaging with each other.

Nini

Yeah, so let's do that. These two are, as you would have said before, drawn to each other from the start, like Jae Won clocks Ji Hyun in the restaurant, Ji Hyun clocks Jae Won… I haven't rewatched the first couple of episodes as yet, but I think I remember that when Jae Won goes outside to smoke, Ji Hyun follows him?

Ben

Ji Hyun is outside, maybe on like a break or whatever? Just decompressing after a stressful moment, and all of Jae Won and his friends are maybe thinking about leaving. And then Jae Won asks for a lighter so he can light a cigarette.

Nini

He asks for the cigarette first, because he doesn't have a cigarette. He asks for a cigarette and he asks for a lighter, which is why I thought I remembered Ji Hyun following him outside, because the lighter that he gives him is the gas match for the restaurant, not like a, a standard bic. It's the big… gas match that he uses so — to light the cigarette for him, and he gives him two cigarettes. One for now and one one for later.

Ben

Jae Won was definitely flirting in a subtle way, and then Ji Hyun responds in a way that's like, I see you, but it both gave them the chance to back off of it and just write it off. Which is where I started to really appreciate the show, because… BL flirting is too overt sometimes.

Nini

It’s a dance that I've seen before, this kind of, I think you are but are you? And there's like these little subtle signals, and all these other things… I mean I don't need to tell: you're gay, you know.

Ben

[laughs] No no Nini! Go on!

Nini

Hilarious. [both laugh] Fine, read me.

Ben

Nah, it's, it's legitimately fun for me to see what other people are picking up on.

Nini

The thing is that it's so easy to dismiss, and it has to be. So these two, they clock each other, they do the dance, you know — ‘are you? I think you are, but are you? I think you are’ kind of dance.

Ben

What's so fun about them dancing is, like it could have been a one off moment. But then Ji Hyun joins the surfing club. And Ji Hyun forces Jae Won to see him. Like ‘No, my name is Ji Hyun, what's yours? You said you wanted to be friends. Were you just bullshitting me, or were you just flirting?’

Nini

Yeah, Ji Hyun is actually pretty…

Ben

He's so brave! I love him!

Nini

He is pretty forward for a baby gay, I will say that.

Ben

He knows who he is. And he sees a boy in pain — who's very pretty — and he's like, ‘I can help him.’ Not ‘I can fix him.’ ‘I can help him’ — Ji Hyun doesn't really demand anything of Jae Won really. He just won't let Jae Won fully push him away, and continues to offer him emotional support. He's incredibly patient, in a way that maybe city folk aren't used to.

Nini

Being city folk myself I can't, like, speak to city versus country in that regard, because I simply don't have the country experience.

Ben

I'm from Louisiana! [laughs]

Nini

The extra shot in that daiquiri gettin to ya, huh?

Ben

It really is. We are two-thirds of the way through this 32 ounces? That's a lot. [laughs]

Nini

There is something to be said for like, the way that Ji Hyun is… he's brave, he's forward, but he does it in this kind of quiet still way. He's pushing, there's definitely no doubt that he's pushing. But he's also not pushy?

Ben

When I was really on Twitter a lot, there’s this writer I used to follow, his name is Anthony Oliveira? He's queer, and he used to say like once or twice a day on his Twitter, he would say: Be brave enough to be kind. And that's where Ji Hyun fits for me. Even when he's being catty with people, it's only with people who came at him sideways. It's… the Hedwig boy coming at him for no reason, it's Eun Ji beefing with him for no reason, it's Joon Pyo picking on him a little bit, and him being like nah, fuck you bro. Other than that, he treats people really well. He gives people back the energy they give him. Like when they drag Tae Hyung, we mentioned this earlier, he was being shitty about Bit Na when she wasn't even there. And it's like bro, she don’t owe you nothin’.

That's kind of what I love about Ji Hyun, because that's what he gives Jae Won. Jae Won flirted with him a little bit, he flirted back. He won't let Jae Won run away after starting that with him, like ‘Hm! You made a mistake — you should not have started this!’ And like, he's so confident at the end, like he's singing a song, like, ‘I won, ha ha!’

Nini

It's like ‘Jae Won’s miiiiiine, Jae Won’s miiiiiine’ [laughs] I love that so much!

Ben

And Eun Ji’s like, ‘What’s it like to win?’ and he’s like ‘Hm, I’ll tell you later tonight!’ [laughs] And let's talk about that boy later that night, because he pinned that boy down… he's like oh no, we've been here for four hours of this TV show? It's time to get mine.

Nini

Ahhh, he literally said — what's the line that he said? ‘Don't laugh, you don't know what's coming next.’

Ben

Right? I was like, baby boy!

Nini

I loved that, I loved that!

Ben

I was in my — I was like yeeeeees bitch, yeeeeeees!

[both laugh]

Ben

Get! It! In!

Nini

He's like, I — he's like, I may look, I may look innocent but I ain't that innocent, you know, kind of…

Ben

He said I am suited, tooted, and booted!

Nini

He’s like, I have the internet, I know how these things go… [laughs]

Ben

It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake.

[both laugh]

Nini

God I hate you. [both laugh] Oh god…

50:38 - Joon Pyo and Boss Lady

Ben

Speaking of getting it in… let's talk about my boy Joon Pyo.

Nini

Hello! Hello. I said it in the clown server and I'm gonna repeat it on this podcast and I don't care how filthy it is okay? You just know — I'm sorry he might be a virgin, but I know that dick game bomb. I know it!

Ben

Look, we've been here a while; anybody who's still listening wants to be here. Let's talk about this for a second. Both Yoon Won and Joon Pyo are fat characters, who are seen enjoying food repeatedly in this show, and I am so glad that the two of them get to have what was clearly a very enjoyable makeout session with each other. And got to vibe for the rest of the night, and are confirmed to dip — off to wherever they're going on their own, so we got time to do our little gay thing we need to next to my rain! bow! lamp! in this room.

My boy! He's been there for his homie the whole time, because he knows his friend gets lonely, he tries to make sure he does social things with him. Maybe he's a little overbearing, maybe he's a little codependent, but he had his boy’s back, and when his boy was down for the count? He starts working at his job, treating the boss with respect — because the boss seems like she might be picky about who she lets work with her. And she seemed to like Joon Pyo too! He brought that man his school supplies to make sure that he didn't have to lose a semester. And when he found out that his homie was gay, and the reason he almost died was for some dick? He was like, ‘shit was it worth it? Yes? We need to secure that bag, don't we? What we doing next?’

Nini

He was for it!

Ben

He stumbled briefly, he's like ‘Wait, Ae Ri knew before me?’ ‘Yeah, but she's from Seoul, she clocked me, I don't know.’ ‘All right, so she's just smart. Is she cool? Are we friends now, does that mean I get to hang out with cool people?’ My man is always looking at the best way to proceed forward. Ain't nobody doing it like my man Joon Pyo.

Nini

Not just that — when, after all this shit when Ji Hyun and Jae Won finally get back together, Joon Pyo clears out of the room that first night, he's like, ‘clearly y'all got some stuff to be doing and I don't want to be here while y'all do it.’

Ben

Right? Jae Won, he's like where'd you, like I felt — I felt it for Ji Hyun, like he wakes up in the morning and Jae Won's gone and like, that boy is not well. We knew that boy almost hurt himself in the show. Ji Hyun’s, ah, understandably worried, he goes out and he's just vibing with with Joon Pyo and he's like ‘well what's going on here?’ He's like ‘well Joon Pyo hung out outside all night for us, so. He brought us coffee, I'm honoring the man's commitment to us.’ And Joon Pyo’s like, ‘you're very pretty and popular, like… would you please take me clubbing?’ He's like ‘hell yeah, let's go clubbing. Let's get you some, son!’

Nini

[laughs] I love that!

Ben

And he's like ‘how do I need to dress, how do I need to be?’ He’s like ‘man you just need to be yourself’ … says the rich boy with all the nice clothes. [laughs]

Nini

You just know that Jae Won gonna make it rain on Joon Pyo at the club. He's going to make sure that he has everything.

Ben

I love Joon Pyo. I liked how there were kind people even in Seoul, like… like these are two freshmen clearly not used to Seoul who want to try specialty drinks for the first time. And I like how that bartender only teased them briefly, and then gave them the kind of popular drinks people their age might want to enjoy. Like that felt so gentle to me in a way, and it really stuck out when I watched it.

Nini

I feel like one of the things that the show gets right, that I really enjoyed, was that the businesses around a university are really accustomed to having students — particularly new students who don't know what the fuck they're doing. The people who work and who own and work in businesses around a university can really be quite nice like that.

Ben

That's how I feel about the boss character. She clearly loves young people, in a genuine way, and like Eun Ji thought she was really doing some stuff, ‘Oh I'm about to post a negative review on you on Yelp.’ And I like how she's like ‘Business improved as a result of your negative review, you insufferable waste of human flesh.’ [laughs] People were like, ‘So this mean catty person got chewed out by, by a business owner for being rude to the support staff? Yeah, we should go to that place.’

I like how the boss doesn't have a name, because it doesn't really matter if she has a name or not, because she's a temporary component of their lives. They're not going to really remember her name in a way that it matters, they're going to remember the things she said to them. They're going to remember how she treated them. They're going to remember like, how she helped them grow, how she pushed them to choose the things in their lives that they wanted. And like that's what matters about her character. Like, that's why they don't give her a name, because it doesn't matter what her name is, because she's so much older than them that we don't have to distinguish her. She is the positive older mentor figure in their lives.

Nini

I just think of her as such a, I mean, [laughs] Because you’re right, she doesn’t get a name, but she is so important to… not just having the story unfold, but she's important to the characters.

56:28 - Let’s Talk About The Kissing (And Episode 6)

Ben

Let's talk about the kissing?

Nini

You go first.

Ben

Oh absolutely not. [Nini laughs] You of the… you of the, ‘all of the kissing is bad and I have notes?’ [laughs]

No, it's fine, I'm gonna go first cause, I have more fun than you sometimes with these terrible kiss scenes. I will say that overall I enjoyed the execution of intimacy in this because everyone is very earnest, and I never feel like I'm not observing the character. This is shored up by the fact that Im Ji Sub gives absolutely terrible kisses with Eun Ji’s actress, on purpose. Straight actors will win me over so much in queer cinema when, when they're forced to kiss women, they look like they hate it. [laughs]

Nini

From a character standpoint I found it very believable.

Ben

Okay.

Nini

I found it extremely believable from a character standpoint. It wasn't pretty, but it's not supposed to be pretty? Jae Won is definitely more experienced than Ji Hyun, and that shows? It works for me, because I don't feel like Ji Hyun is supposed to be good at it. I feel like he's new to the whole thing, and because of that, the enthusiasm carries more for me than the technique. He's new to it but he's going for it in a particular kind of way. There's some little acting choices that Oh Jun Taek does, like he opens his mouth, like really wide when —

Ben

I loved it! The first time I thought, I was like, go — I was like go in baby boy!

Nini

I loved that, because — that's the kind of thing you do when you're learning to kiss, you overcompensate.

Ben

I love it.

Nini

You overcompensate when you're learning to kiss, it’s one of the things that you do, so I actually really like that detail? He looks like he wants to swallow Jae Won whole, and I really [laughs] really like that —

Ben

I fucking love it, I loved it so much —

Nini

I really love that and that's, that's the kissing at the end, but then the kissing sort of in between as well, is really… good, because those kisses — those kisses like towards the end… like they're together at that point, you know what I mean, it's a whole different thing. But the way that he kisses him before that, there is a little bit of tentativeness to it, some — in some parts? When they're surfing when they're on their trip, and he kisses them in the sea? Like, in terms of pretty? Those are the pretty, those are the prettiest kisses, like you know what I mean? Those, those aesthetically pleasing, all that good stuff, and you feel the sense of euphoria that's coming out of it? They are having this whole moment, there is so much joy in those kisses, which I truly love.

And that's the other thing, like every — all the kisses have different moods. And you know I like to follow the trajectory of a relationship through the… to the intimacy and how it's being portrayed. So watching all the kisses and the, all the intimacy have different moods to it? Fantastic. I can't complain about it. Is it pretty? In a lot of instances, no. Does it feel real? Absolutely a hundred percent, all the time.

See? See?

Ben

I'm so relieved y'all, because normally I'm like ‘I really enjoyed that!’ and Nini's like ‘Hmmm… it was terrible’ and I'm like, ‘Awww.’ [laughs]

Nini

You know, I'm out here being Beyonce, ‘look at my technique,’ you know kinda thing [laughs] And Ben's like ‘No!’

[both laugh]

Ben

Leave them alone! They're doing their best, shit.

Nini

No… No but I really, I did, I did like it here. It's also maybe something to do with the style, because the style is so vérité? When you get an ugly kiss — quote unquote ugly kiss — in a vérité style, it feels different…

Nini

…than when you get a quote unquote ugly kiss in a style that's very polished.

Ben

I know what you mean. Like a —

Nini

You know?

Ben

Right, right. When it feels very fanciful and like ‘this is the best kiss that's ever happened,’ and you're like ‘oh but it wasn't.’

Nini

Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Precisely.

Ben

All right, so, while we're talking about the intimacy and stuff, I think we should talk about episode 6 reactions. First, I'm going to say that I loved episode 6, and I particularly enjoyed the way they handled the intimacy of episode 6? I think that was very appropriate for… the newness of the actors, the lack of an intimacy coordinator…

I want to talk about the reaction. I don't know if you were on Tumblr for this, but there was a lot of discussion at the end of episode 6 where people were saying that episode 6 was not real. That it was fake — and I have written on Tumblr on record about how much I hated that take, and I want to unpack it here.

Nini

I did see the reactions on Tumblr, I mostly stayed out of it… I didn't really delve too much into The Eighth Sense discussion? I did do, like a little thing about Eun Ji, but I didn't really delve into The Eighth Sense discussion because I wanted it to play out. I felt like The Eighth Sense is one of those shows that… the episodic discussion wasn't going to give much. I felt like it's one of those shows where I needed to see the full, the full thing, to really… understand. Because it's not — as, as we said earlier in the show, it's not really one of those… episode by episode kind of things where the plot is what's driving it or whatever, it's really about the interactions that these characters are having, the way that they're interacting with their surroundings.

It's why we've been jumping back and forth in discussion, and like it's how I felt about it while it was airing, so I really kinda, didn't really delve too much into the whole episode 6 discussion. I saw it, but… I wasn't getting into it.

Ben

I guess I'm just gonna deliver a little read while we're here then.

Nini

Okay!

Ben

[laughs] Here we go!

Nini

Here we go.

Ben

I don't want to disrespect anyone before we get into this. Let me be clear. Like, I do believe people were relying on very fair reads of traditional filming techniques, for why they believed that some parts of… episode 6 might have not been real, or that Jae Won would— became an unreliable narrator for it? But I think it's very important to talk about this.

Just because it's unpleasant to consider does not mean it's not real. This is not meant to be read as disrespect to those of you trying to make sense of what's going on because you were nervous and concerned for Ji Hyun. That is valid. But, please understand, that for me — this is just me! As a queer person in these streets with y'all — whenever you all seemingly get squicked out because one of us isn't being entertaining or sexy? It makes me feel a little bit unwelcome. That's all I'm going to say about that, because you know who was right as of episode 7? Me! It was real!

[both laugh]

Ben

I was insufferable that week, I feel sorry for everybody who had to talk to me.

Nini

[laughs] I didn't think you were insufferable.

Ben

I felt insufferable. I was smug! My crops were watered.

Nini

The field in which you grew your fucks was barren.

[both laugh]

Ben

I don't want anyone to feel embarrassed if you just — felt called out by what I just said. But I would like you to approach these shows with just a little more kindness. The goal of watching TV is not to be right. It's about finding connection — with fictional people, and the real people who are also finding that connection with you. It can bring you closer to other people. It can help you understand other people. It can bring you just a little bit of peace and joy in an otherwise difficult time. There are no points to be awarded, you are not taking a test when you watch these shows. So please… be kinder to yourselves. Be kind to the people making these stories, and be kind to the people who are also watching them alongside you.

Nini

[singing] Message!

Ben

I'm a little drunk but that's all I'm going to say on that!

1:06:21 - The Party Scene and Forgiveness

Nini

Let's talk about that end scene, the party.

Ben

Okay, let's talk about forgiveness for the next thirty minutes. [laughs]

Nini

I think that's a good segue from what you just said: let's talk a little bit about forgiveness.

Ben

I'm gonna let Nini talk, because I just made you guys feel bad for like, probably 10 minutes of this edit.

Here's the thing: Nini and I… came down on the side of forgiveness for this. But Nini and I are a little bit older than some of the viewers, so… I'll let you talk about the final scene and particularly how there were mixed reactions to Jae Won’s and Ji Hyun’s decision to reconcile, at a party, with Tae Hyung and Eun Ji: the two worst offenders of this particular story. Nini?

Nini

See here's the thing: I didn't read it as a reconciliation? And that's probably why I have a, like a different view of it. So the way that I read that is, when you're stonkingly giddy happy… when you are at a celebratory event, when you are… drinking, let's just be real about it… It is so easy to just be like, ‘You know what? I don't want to fight, I don't want to argue. I just want to let all this go… like, there's so much love in this club, I'm just gonna…’ [laughs]

Ben

And there is love in this club tonight! Some of you don't even know.

Nini

That's part of it. That's definitely part of it. But also, you have to understand what's happening with Tae Hyung, and with Eun Ji in here as well.

Tae Hyung is a dick. That doesn't change throughout the show. He was a dick at the start of the show, at the end of the show he's still a dick… nothing about him changes. But you get to understand the value that Jae Won finds in Tae Hyung. Because he… outright asks him, Tae Hyung asks him ‘Why are you still friends with me?’ because Tae Hyung doesn't even understand why Jae Won keeps him around. And what Jae Won says about that, he’s just like… Basically he tells him, ‘I keep you around because you don't mask and I find that really refreshing.’ That's basically what he tells him.

And that makes so much sense to me. And it also makes me understand why he would just let the shit go, at this point. Because Tae Hyung's not going to change. We see that at the same party. He continues to try to hit on Bit Na. He has to get read to the ground by Bit Na for his bullshit. Tae Hyung is never going to change.

Ben

That's true. He's the most bitchless motherfucker in the whole show.

[both laugh]

Nini

Completely! A hundred percent. He's never going to change, and Jae Won finds that comforting. Also, I have seen men forgive each other for all kinds of shit? So that just read a hundred percent true to me. I have seen dudes fight, box, wrestle, nearly kill each other… and then two days later they're out together hanging out.

Ben

Dude I've seen them after the fight bloody, like crying, hugging each other like I love you bro! [laughs] And I'm like, the hell just happened?

Nini

That rang a hundred percent true to me… I think that if Tae Hyung and Jae Won stay in contact — because there's no guarantee that that's going to happen either, because they're coming to the end of things now. The fact that they're having this party because Yoon Won got a job means that things are starting to move. Where all the seniors were stuck before, things are now starting to move for them. They're coming to the end of this period of their lives anyway, so they've also got like a hefty whiff of nostalgia permeating the whole thing, and also? They don't know if they're gonna see each other really, after this. They don't know if they're going to stay friends. It's easy in that situation to just let the shit go, and I've seen the situation happen so many times before and I'm just kind of like, you know what? That rang true for me, I wasn't worried about that.

Ben

I’m with Nini. As a boy, I have friends like that. Where… you know who this person is: kind of a sad sack, kind of a shit heel, and you get it. But they're weirdly there? And so, you just accept these losses, like yeah he tried to get me kicked out of school but he failed, because he sucks, so… whatever. Was that annoying? Yes. Is he going to apologize for it? No. But he wouldn't be himself if he apologized. And like that's not great, but this is again a reflection of the current state of social… politics.

Nini

It's more of a question of, is this realistic? And to me, yes it is.

Ben

Nini and I are both from cultures that have carnival. And so like, I've seen this happen at Mardi Gras, where blood feuds have ended because, like, we ran into each other at a parade. And like, the right thing was said at the right moment, and people just let go of decades worth of beef. Like it can happen! And like, the question is like, does holding on to this anger at Tae Hyung help Jae Won take care of Ji Hyun? So let it go.

Nini

The way I can best describe it is: whatever, I'm over it. It's not like he's gonna, like make him like godparent to his first born or anything like that, I don't think that's where their relationship is going. I'd be surprised if they're speaking to each other in two years. For now, at a party? Everybody's happy, everybody's drinking. You're gonna go home with your boyfriend later and have a great time, like… [laughs]

Ben

Right? The music is good, the drinks are flowing, there's love in this club tonight.

Nini

The other one that everybody’s upset about is Ji Hyun forgiving Eun Ji. Now I also found that incredibly believable. Not just for party reasons but also for career reasons? Eun Ji is still his senior. The first thing he does, like when he walks up to her, is he apologizes for being snarky with her. In the moment and like the heat of battle so to speak, he might have popped off at the mouth, but he's gonna feel bad about it later. And I can see him, like, apologizing to her about it. And I can genuinely see her, having lost so comprehensively? Licking her wounds, taking a step back, and reassessing her entire life.

Ben

Here's the thing about the way she lost to Ji Hyun. What she realized from Jae Won handing her her entire ass was, Ji Hyun was never her enemy. She lost way before this boy showed up. And so all the beef she had with him in this whole competition for Jae Won? Was nil, because he said, ‘I saw you.’ And so all of the presumption she had about, like, what was at stake, is this a battle for Jae Won’s booty or whatever… Like none of that works out. He had already dismissed her. And he was adamant: he did not want to be with her, the whole time. So she feels like an asshole, because she's been in the wrong the whole time.

And maybe like a part of her was true about this. Maybe she was just bitter that Jae Won was gone. She's mad about him being gone, but she didn't do right by him and she lied. That's the big thing, like she's been caught lying. There's no coming back from that. Whatever her goals were for Jae Won, she had to eat that bowl of shit, and set it aside. And like there's no value for her in beefing with Ji Hyun anymore, because it just further exacerbates how much of an asshole she is. This boy did literally nothing to her, and they are not equals in a struggle for the heart of a bisexual boy. She lost her chance before this boy showed up. And so it's actually good to see her becoming the senior she's supposed to be, now that she has some experience to maybe pass on and grow from.

Nini

I agree with that read, I really think that she's reassessing and reevaluating her entire life at this point? She's feeling a little vulnerable, she's feeling a little… raw. She’s feeling a little humbled, and so… when you're feeling that way, just what do you do? You sit quietly and you try not to do too much. I don't know if this feels the way that it feels to me because I am an old bitch? But… [laughs] The first and hopefully last time you ever find yourself beefing with a fetus? Like… [laughs]

Ben

BEEFING WITH A FETUS! AAAAH! [laughs]

Nini

You know I'm right. You know I'm right.

Ben

I know what you mean! I mean there’re times, I'm like, oh lord I almost threw hands with a 12 year old today.

[both laugh]

Nini

You literally like, when somebody slaps into you like, what are you doing? Like this is a child! Hopefully it only ever happens to you once. And hopefully you very quickly realize that you are, in fact… you're in an antagonistic situation with a child.

Ben

It's really hard to realize sometimes that you are wrong. And to accept that and try to, like, move on from it properly. Like, I think she does okay. And like, she's still an asshole… just like Tae Hyung’s still an asshole. But I think she does okay.

Nini

To me it feels right, that the end is not… a comeuppance in that sense or a vengeance, but it's more like everybody being like, ‘Look okay, we all been through it. Let's just hug that shit out. Maybe I'll see you again, maybe I won't, but for right now, we’re here, it's a party, let's just have a good time, and not like do all this shit.’

1:17:14 - On a Possible Second Season

Ben

Speaking of ‘maybe we'll see each other again’ how do you feel about returning to these characters?

Nini

As you always say: Dick is not magical, it does not fix you.

Ben

It does not!

Nini

And there's still a lot, particularly on Jae Won’s side, like there's stuff with Ji Hyun too, but especially with Jae Won, there's still a lot there… in terms of his mental health, in terms of his family, in terms of all that stuff. So… there is room there? For something else, that could be interesting, but… I feel like if this was all there was, I would be good with it.

How do you feel? What, what are your thoughts on a potential sequel?

Ben

So we talked about sequels in the spring season and I was really amped about sequels! I don't… feel the pull for one here yet. I'm not opposed, because… these characters are so strong, like we're gonna remember these characters, we're gonna remember Ji Hyun, Jae Won, Joon Pyo, Yoon Won, Eun Ji, Tae Hyung, the boss… Ae Ri! Don't forget my girl, I'm sorry boo boo. We're going to remember these characters, and their characterizations are fairly strong. So I am confident that the voice of the characters is strong enough to carry them into whatever new situations they want to put these characters through.

However… I believe that this particular outing had a lot of very specific things they wanted to say, about queerness, about being Korean, about being young in Korea… and I hope that if they really want to continue the story, that they have more things that they think are worth saying, and they do that in a way that's legible. I am just concerned that they aren't prepared for… a domestic story where one of them is still in school? And the other one is trying to survive their homophobic family? And abusive dad. And I'm not entirely certain that I am… eager to explore that?

I'm not opposed to a sequel, I'm not yearning for one, but I do hope that we get more melodrama out of these guys. I enjoyed this production a lot! Even if we don't get more of The Eighth Sense, I hope that this team continues to make cool stuff. I really loved the way Oh Jun Taek played Ji Hyun this whole time. I loved the way he moved, I loved the way he spoke, I loved his smile. And like, I like how in the final episodes when Jae Won has, almost the Japanese running-to-the-boy moment, I just love the way that… Ji Hyun is just so ecstatic to finally get what he's been hoping for. And he's clingy for the final parts of this show, and he's having a good time! He's literally radiant for the rest of the show! Oh Jun Taek plays the relief and joy of that character so well.

Like you see, even Jae Won, like you can see his old bones creaking. That's, he's like ‘I can experience joy again?’ as he quickly wakes up for this, and like — I feel like some of the… final bits were a little bit rushed? But I'm not going to complain, because like… I like the therapy bit with Jae Won, like it allows me to be forgiving about a character — who's had a lot of emotional struggles for the whole fucking show — to very quickly adapt to the situation, and like ‘no, we're boyfriends now.’ Like you can see the work of somebody who spent a great deal of time working with a professional about how he's feeling and how to manage them… expressing them properly, now that the hugest block is out of his way. And that lands really well for me in the final moments, like in another show it might have felt like this got resolved too quickly.

Nini

I don't feel like it did get resolved too quickly. If I have to do like, one more ding for the show: I think that the passage of time, particularly in this last two episodes, wasn't really clear?

Ben

It is not.

Nini

There's a sequence where Ji Hyun is in a classroom and he's sitting in different positions in the classroom and wearing different clothes, and we're meant to understand that that is time passing. So there is a bunch of time that passes, in episode 9 in particular, that I don't think it’s very clear to the audience that there is a lot of time passing. We're seeing Jae Won becoming stronger and stronger and happier and happier. But because it all happens in a montage where it's not clear that time is passing, it feels rushed. I don't know how much time there is? But it feels like they go through a season, because you see his clothes change. At one point he's just wearing a t-shirt, and then the next time when they meet each other up, they're back into like maybe something heavier, like more like fall clothes? So I feel like they at least went through the summer.

Ben

Though I did love this show, this is not a show that's going to be, like, part of my personal canon.

Nini

For me, it's like… I can appreciate it as being objectively good. I can feel the emotions that it was going for?... Watching it is kind of… ticking something off a film syllabus.

Ben

That's the exact feeling… that like, I think it is!

Nini

That makes it sound bad in a way, but I don't mean for it to sound bad.

Ben

It goes on the must-watch list, but you're like, ehhh.

Nini

It's all the things: it's good, it's worthy, it's enjoyable, it's emotional… It's all of the things that you want a drama to be. I will recommend it for sure, I think it's important work. I… don't really see myself rewatching it? It touches me but it doesn't give me the visceral feelings.

Ben

This is not calling the show bad!

Nini

Objectively, this is a 10 show for me.

Ben

Don't let our mid commentary at the end of this two and a half hour recording deter you. We loved this show! And like we said in the beginning, we will remember every single one of these characters, because they're so vivid, and they're so expertly crafted. Do we recommend The Eighth Sense? Wholeheartedly yes! Please! You should experience this. Go watch this.

1:24:10 - Checking in Two Months Later

Ben

Okay, Nini… it's been about two months I think since The Eighth Sense ended at this point? How are you feeling about it two months later?

Nini

As I predicted I have not rewatched it. I have not felt the need to rewatch it. When I was doing the edit I was listening to us talk about it and everything just came flooding back. Like I could remember distinctly how I felt watching it, the things that we were talking about, but I still don't feel compelled to rewatch it.

I feel like it's one of those things where… it has stuck? Somewhere deep inside? And because it stuck I don't need to go back to it and reinterpret it and review it and look at it again, I feel like it was so clear. It was so legible. It spoke for itself really, and so I don't feel the need to go over and over and over it. It's very different from how I normally consume media because if I'm really into something I will go over and over and over and over it. This is… very different for me, a very different experience of taking in media.

What about you Ben, how do you feel about it a few months down the line?

Ben

I feel a bit weird about it, and I think a big part of it is the way that the team behind it is continuing to release behind the scenes content in a way that I wasn't expecting — like I was hoping it’d feel more akin to… the gravitas with which Boss and them released the I Told Sunset About You documentaries. But it's been a little bit on the silly side?

There's talk about them doing a second season. And I'm not opposed, but I feel like it's left me in a liminal space with the show, like I feel like I'm sitting on a, like a train station waiting for the next train to come.

What has stuck with me, and I was thinking about this when I listened to the edit, is: I'm so glad that we had that whole conversation on forgiveness. Because let me tell you, the amount of peace I have had over this show because I'm not sitting here hating on Tae Hyung or Eun Ji all these months later? Because they just don't matter. I really like that the show left us with these two driving down a tunnel together and saying, ‘Whatever is coming next, we'll do this together.’ That's so lovely.

Like I feel like where I was with the show at the end of it, like it is one of those things that goes… in my cataloging of, this is a really good piece that I am going to remember and recommend to the youths, when they ask me about things that are worth watching from certain places or from certain angles. But I don't necessarily find myself yearning for Jae Won or Ji Hyun the way I have for other people. It was fun though, revisiting our absolutely unhinged love for Joon Pyo when I went back through this. [laughs] I still love that boy so much.

Nini

Joon Pyo the MVP! Everybody needs a friend like him. Everybody.

Ben

He was a really good friend.

I think what stands out for me really about The Eighth Sense is that the field itself is just so much more crowded now. So much good stuff was airing when this show aired, more good stuff has aired since this show aired. It's not a knock on The Eighth Sense, it's just that… we have such a wide variety of excellent offerings to choose from, that I find that you're going to be able to find shows that hit your specific emotional resonances more consistently. Regardless of how good The Eighth Sense is, it didn't fully resonate with the exact weird queer sensibilities I have, that would make me put it into one of my heart shows.

Nini

You know what it is I think, Ben? I think we're getting older. [Ben laughs] I think this is an intensely youthful show. I watch these coming of age dramas all the time I mean, you spoke about ITSAY and that still like hits me like a ton of bricks. But that's because it feels like my youth?

Whereas, I feel oddly… both connected and disconnected from The Eighth Sense. It feels like a youth that I'm familiar with? But not one that I have experienced? We talked about the millennial thing when we were talking about the show, and how this feels like that. But it still feels distant from my experience of being a millennial somehow? I think maybe I'm just too old for the show. Like, I can appreciate it for what it is, but I'm too old for it and it doesn't hit the nostalgia buttons that I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You the Moon and shows like that hit. I think this is one for the kids, Ben.

Ben

I don't think that's bad! What I'll say is, I'm really glad that there is room for that now. We've been talking in other spaces about how fandom feels like it's bifurcating too many times now, that it feels thinner than it used to be? Like it feels like there used to be a lot more of us around. But I just feel like a big thing at this point is, we're not all trying to get some sort of energy from the exact same shows anymore.

Right now I'm yelling on Tumblr about a whole show that Nini is just not watching. And I think that's okay, because Nini and I are still screaming at each other about at least two or three other shows, and so like I'm not feeling despondent because Nini, who's one of my best friends in fandom, isn't watching one of the shows that I'm really enjoying right now. It's okay that The Eighth Sense is the type of coming of age experience that maybe is more suited for the Gen Z types than the millennials.

Nini

So now that we have fully memento mori’d ourselves, I think that's that's a wrap for us. [laughs]

Ben

It's a really good show guys. Don't, don't get us wrong like we're, we're being a little bit wistful at the end of this, but — I really liked this show. Like I still, I stand by everything we said in the original recording.

I really like the performances here, I really like the gumption of this entire production. I really like the casting choices. I like the way Oh Jun Taek and Im Ji Sub really worked together. And… sincerely, if they want to do more work with these two guys and reprising these characters, I will be there, seated, to see what they do next.

Nini

All right! And with that, we out! Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

#the eighth sense #korean bl #podcast #lgbtq #the conversation #ben and nini's conversations #spring series #season 3 #summer 2023 #on art #summer series #Spotify

57 notes · View notes

itgetsbetterproject · 1 year

Text

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ Queer joy for your dash straight from Nashville, Tennessee!

Last year, we awarded $500,000 in grants to schools across the U.S. for student-led projects that support LGBTQ+ youth. Just over a year later, it's time to see how their projects turned out!

Meet one of our 50 States. 50 Grants. 5000 Voices. grantees - this school in Nashville, TN used their grant funds to put on a series of Pride Week events at their school!

We asked their teacher how it went:

"In general, the reaction to our project has been positive. However, some parents and students were not pleased. When Pride Week was announced, we had angry parents coming into our school office or calling angrily. Student reactions were more ignorant, attempting to push boundaries as we laid out what it meant to be respectful. By the end of Pride Week though, some of the same students who voiced hate, participated wholeheartedly, asked good questions, and showed immense growth. This progress in our students shows me that the programming was worthwhile, even for those who pushed back against it." 💜

🔗 We've got all the other 2022 grantees here: itgetsbetter.org/blog/meet-the-grantees

#itgetsbetter #nashville #50states50grants #youthactivist #pridevents #pride #queeryouth #lgbtqyouth #middle school #high school #teacher resources

33 notes · View notes

tepkunset · 2 years

Text

Top Surgery Journey Part 1

16 was the worst age of my life. My mother was diagnosed with stage-three breast cancer. We were evicted from our house and had to move again, this time to a shitty thin-walled apartment with drug-dealers for neighbours. I was half-way through my first year of high school, where I was bulled for what might as well have been a glowing neon “I have autism” sign strapped to my back. And I realized I liked girls—that terrified me almost as much as the threat of losing my mom.

My father used to tell me and my brother that the two things we were not allowed to be were gay or clergy. He said things like “all gay people should be put on an island” – your typical homophobic rhetoric. As an autistic child, I took him literally, and thought that if I was gay, he would discard me on an island to die. Living in Nova Scotia, it’s not like there’s a lack of islands around where he could have done so, in my mind. That probably sounds ridiculous to read if you’re neurotypical, but it’s what I genuinely thought at the time.

It wasn’t until my early 20’s that I started coming out to people as liking women. By that time my parents had divorced and I started looking after my mother and brother. I became more accepting of my sexuality, especially thanks to the encouragement from online queer spaces. And when I became more accepting of my sexuality, I started to question my gender as well. There were so many things that trans/non-binary people spoke of that I could identify within myself; things I never questioned before, or just assumed everyone felt that way. It prompted me to think about all the things that made me feel outside of my gender growing up, such as the intense jealousy I felt over my mother’s double mastectomy.

I know, right? It’s true though. She survived cancer, and all I could think of was how much I wished I could be rid of my breasts, too.

I was late in puberty. It didn’t start to hit until about age 15, so I was very new to the developing breasts I hated so very much, at the same time my mother was getting rid of hers. But when they came, they came in heavy. I was genetically cursed with a large chest, and it made shopping suddenly a nightmare for me, because I preferred the men’s section. I started the habit of buying clothing twice my size to hide my body. I hated looking at myself in the mirror, because I felt disgusted with what I saw at best, or like I didn’t want a body at all at worst. I stopped going swimming; something I used to enjoy. Despite my family history, I never did breast exams because I couldn’t stand to think about them in such detail. One of the reasons I hate exercise in general is because I hate the sensation of my breasts moving so much, even when packed in sports bras. All because I know now, having been professionally diagnosed over a decade later, I have gender dysphoria.

(Insert here a reminder that not all transgender people have gender dysphoria, and that doesn’t make them any less trans. I am purely speaking about my own experiences!)

It’s only been a few years that I’ve opened up about my nonconformity to the western gender binary to the people I know in real life. Most of my close co-workers are 50+ years old cishet white women, who while mean well, are quite ignorant of gender diversity. I’ve been fortunate to only have to deal with one co-worker who did not respond well to my request to stop calling me “yes missy”, “yes girl”, “yes ma’am”, insisting it was just what they were taught from their generation and that I needed to respect that. But my manager has been very supportive, and made it very clear that it’s expected I be treated with respect, too. (She also added a rainbow flag to her email signature with the line “I respect inclusion”, which I thought was cute.)

My top surgery is two weeks away now, and I’m so excited to get it done that I think about it before bed every night. Knowing that soon I will be going to sleep on a table and then waking up with a flat chest is thrilling. Thinking about how much this is going to change my life is thrilling. I have worries about the surgery itself of course—I’ve only been under anaesthesia once when I was very little; too little to remember. I’ve never been on high pain-killers before. I worry about the drainage tubes and looking after them. But I figure these concerns are probably very normal, and I have to remind myself that people every day are going through the same surgery I’m about to go through. The surgeon who will be operating on me has almost two decades of experience. The clinic I’m going to in Montréal has a good reputation, from what I’ve been able to hear from others. There’s reason to believe things will go well.

#top surgery

92 notes · View notes

denimbex1986 · 8 months

Text

'“I got called a gay elder the other day,” Andrew Haigh said. This title, bestowed by a group of younger gay men, initially rankled him. It’s true that Haigh — the director of acclaimed films like “45 Years” and “Weekend” — had recently turned 50, but he still found that landmark age hard to believe.

“I’m looking older,” he told me, “but it’s a strange thing to think that I’m not young anymore.”

That uncanny feeling is a key theme in Haigh’s latest film, “All of Us Strangers,” which he adapted from the 1987 novel “Strangers” by Taichi Yamada. Andrew Scott stars in the film as Adam, a screenwriter in his late 40s with a whole lot on his mind: As he entertains a tentative romance with his neighbor Harry (Paul Mescal), he returns to his childhood home and finds it somehow inhabited by the parents (Claire Foy and Jamie Bell) who died when he was young. Though this reunion summons Adam’s inner child to the fore — a transformation Scott sells with heartbreaking subtlety, even when dressed in Christmas pajamas — there are still tricky adult conversations to be had with his parents about his sexuality and lonely middle age.

“I knew that for this film to work, I had to throw myself into it on a very personal level,” Haigh said. “So much of the things they’re talking about and the memories that Adam has of being a kid are my memories.”

That commitment even extended to filming much of the movie in the house where Haigh grew up, a notion that astounded many of his actors.

“I always have this image of him losing one of his baby teeth in that house where the crew were stamping on the floor,” Scott said. “Isn’t it extraordinary that as you shoot a scene downstairs in the kitchen about a man coming out to his mother, he could have gone upstairs after he had actually done that and been upset in a small bathroom?”

In November, I met Haigh at an old-fashioned cafe in Hollywood where, as a young film student, he used to plop down in the corner booth and order the blackened chicken sandwich and too much coffee. (Haigh no longer eats meat, so during our lunch he had the veggie sandwich instead.) As we spoke about the personal stories from his youth he excavated for “All of Us Strangers,” he said he had started to come to grips with the journey he has traveled since and the nickname that long voyage had earned him.

“I might get a T-shirt that says ‘gay elder,’” he told me, chuckling.

Here are edited excerpts from our conversation.

A lot of this movie is inspired by your early life. What were you like as a child?

I think I was a sad kid. I was fine when I was younger, but my parents split up when I was 9, and I was being bullied at school. When you’re an unhappy child, it shapes everything. It doesn’t go away — it will always be there, the way you felt, and the instinct to repress yourself early on can affect everything.

How did their divorce affect you?

There was so much that I was made to push down and forget and not talk about. I don’t think I ever spoke to anybody about how I felt. And look, it doesn’t take a genius to look at my films and think that all of those themes come out within the stuff that I make about feeling alone, about searching for stability, about trying to understand the past and change it somehow in order for you to move forward. Pretty much the filmmaker I am now is because of how I was as a kid.

Why were you being bullied at school?

Because they knew I was gay, basically.

Did you know you were gay?

No. They could see my difference before I could. And I talk about it in the film, but it was the early ’80s and the mid-’80s in the U.K., this incredibly homophobic time. Everyone was terrified of AIDS and the government had Section 28, which was a law against teaching homosexuality in school. I think most queer kids from the ’80s kept everything very, very hidden. I was in relationships with girls all the way into my 20s, and I didn’t come out till my late 20s, till after university.

What happened when you told your parents you were gay?

They were good. They had to do a huge readjustment in their understanding of me, so that’s not easy for parents. You go through some strange questions, for sure, and it takes a bit of time, and you find your way through it. But it’s a strange thing because I know lots of people have very supportive families, and it doesn’t mean you don’t feel a little bit separate. Even in this age of acceptance, there is still often a line that you don’t want to cross. Or maybe it’s even that we feel uncomfortable, that we still want to hide elements of ourselves because we’re still afraid that they might not love us as much.

So frequently, we want to reassure everyone else not to worry. We’ve held this thing in, which almost makes you explode from being sick with the pressure building inside you, and still you’re like, “Oh, don’t worry, I’m really happy,” or “I’m going to be great.” And in retrospect I’m like, what was I doing? I wasn’t fine. I was a mess and I was terrified and all I was trying to do is make them feel better. For a lot of queer people, we’re doing that all the time, trying to walk this line of not pushing boundaries too much so we don’t get rejected.

When you were reading the novel that “All of Us Strangers” was based on, did you sense immediately that you could explore all these themes in an adaptation?

It definitely took a long time. It’s a good novel, but it’s very traditionally a ghost story. I thought about doing it as that to start with, but then I knew that I wanted the romantic relationship in the story to be queer, and I wanted it to be about the associations of family love and romantic love and how they’re all wrapped up together.

You shot the film in the house you grew up in, in Croydon in South London. Were you picturing that place when you wrote the script?

Yeah. I think I was rooting it to the idea of a childhood home, and then as we started trying to work out where to shoot it, I was like, “Well, why wouldn’t I go and shoot it there?” I knew it would be a strange experience, but I like how I feel when I’m a little bit terrified and emotionally fragile. The interesting ideas come from that.

What was it like when you first walked through that door?

I don’t really know how to explain it. It’s a very peculiar feeling. When I walked around by myself and I sat in what would have been my old bedroom and looked out the window, you just remember things. I remember standing at that window when I was a kid. There were some enormous trees outside, but when we lived there, those trees were only knee-high. Somehow that freaked me out more than anything else, that those trees were pretty much the exact age as me and they’ve been on this planet for 50 years, as I have.

You’ve cast Claire Foy and Jamie Bell as the parents. How much like your real parents are they?

Look, my dad’s from the north of England and sounds a bit like Jamie, and my mom sounds a bit like Claire. And they sort of look a bit like that and their personalities are quite similar. So there’s definitely a sense that they are related to my parents.

It’s interesting that when we first meet Jamie’s character, before you’ve revealed the familial relationship, it almost seems like he’s cruising Andrew’s character in the woods.

It always made me laugh that no one’s surprised when a straight guy goes for someone who’s a bit like their mom — that’s just like a natural thing — but no one ever says, “Well, gay guys and queer guys, maybe they quite like someone who’s a bit like their dad.” I wanted to play with that because, to me, love is rooted in feeling comforted and safe and understood. That is what your parents give you, and it’s no surprise that you might want it from a lover, too. And Jamie Bell looks super hot. Who doesn’t want to cruise him coming out of the trees?

Did the actors meet your parents?

No. I would never do that. I mean, my dad’s not well so he won’t get to see the film. But my mom’s seen the film and I’m sure she’ll meet the actors at some point.

What did she think of it?

She saw it with my brother in a screening room in London, and I think it was hard for her to watch. There was a lot of stuff that feels personal to her, and I don’t underestimate how strange that must be. There’s a scene that I have now made with some twisted version of me talking to a mother in the bed that used to be my mom’s bed. That’s not an easy thing for them to deal with, so I really do appreciate it. But she loves the film, she’s super excited about it.

It’s a shame my dad can’t see it because I feel like he would like it. My dad has quite bad dementia and it came on while I was making the film, just a strange time for it to happen. During the shoot, I went up to visit him because he’d just been put into hospital, and he’d completely forgotten that I was gay. Had no memory of it: “Oh, so you’ve got a wife? Are you married?” I was like, “Oh, Christ.” I didn’t tell him, I didn’t say that I was with my partner.

Why not?

I was terrified, I felt like I was 20-whatever again. I didn’t want to upset him because he’s in a care home now, but at the same time, you feel the same terror of, “Oh my God, is he going to reject me when I really don’t need this right now?” Then I came back to London and the next scene I shot was the scene with Jamie and Andrew talking [about his sexuality], a pretty tough emotional scene to have done the day after that. So it was a rough time.

I did see my dad again and I brought my partner with me, so he’s seen my partner now. It was interesting because he was like, “Well, as long as you found love, that’s the important thing. That’s all I care about.” I feel like some element of him still knew, and I’m glad I got to bring my partner to see him. It just shows how you always have to still keep coming out.

There’s always something that can reduce you to the state you were in before.

Exactly. That’s what this film is: It’s absolutely about being reduced to that state. And that’s why I thought it was so interesting to wrap it up in grief, because I think grief is such a similar thing. When you lose someone, it’s always just there as something in you. It felt like this film has such a perfect way to express how we can’t move on from things unless we’re helped to move on from those things.'

#Andrew Haigh #All of Us Strangers #Jamie Bell #Claire Foy #Taichi Yamada #Strangers #Andrew Scott #Paul Mescal #45 Years #Weekend

6 notes · View notes

mymaleficaria · 1 year

Text

mthedm ---> mymaleficaria

Hi gang! I've had this blog since high school, but somewhere in college it fell into disuse and disrepair. I've been itching to get back on here, as a space on the internet that's not...ya know *gestures at the Twitter-sized elephant in the room*. But I also wanted to go in with a fresh coat of paint and reintroduce myself to y'all, maybe even make some new friends (or enemies. That could be hot.) A lot has changed!

Wait, why do I follow you?

Statistically, you followed me because of Wolf 359! I was big into podcasts back in the day, WTNV, Wolf 359, all those. I also wrote some Wolf 359 fics and was semi-active on the discord. Still fondly remember the show and might reblog fanart once in awhile, but it's not the direction this blog's going to go, so feel free to unfollow if what up I'm to now isn't your jam.

What's this blog about now?

Wouldn't you like to know, weatherboy? Frankly, I'm ADHD as fuck, so that'll vary by the day, but I have a few fandoms (do we still say fandoms in the year of our lord 2023???) that I've been into lately.

Dimension 20: I started watching D20 a little less than a year ago, and it entirely took over my life. It's just a series that's so robustly funny, wonderfully told, and never fails to make me smile. I'm especially fond of ACOC and Fantasy High.

Dracula Daily: I'm in this shit for the long haul! I think Lucy and Mina should kiss, but that's neither here nor there.

Game of Thrones/HotD: This show ended in a trash fire, but it literally lives in my head rent free. The political intrigue, the drama. Ugh. I'm a targ girlie through and through, so I've been eating up HotD, though it's nowhere near as good imo. Am also currently reading the 1st ASOIAF book.

YA lit/Whatever I'm reading/watching: I've read almost 50 books this year so far, and am frankly, insane. Bonus points for queer reads! Not many people to talk about books to irl, so might ramble about them on here instead. Also watch a lot of random TV drama and some anime.

Writing: I'm a fanfic writer, and a fiction writer in general, so I'll post stuff about writing--complaints, story snippets, link to my fics, etc! Headcanons and all will be found here. I've also copyedited before, which is like writing but if you get even more nitpicky about it.

Personal/Whatever the hell I feel like/My D&D Games: Life happens and sometimes you want to scream into the void. Ramblings, jokes, whatever. I transed my gender in the past few years and sometimes I'm mad about it! I also just graduated college! Madness! I play a lot of TTRPGs, and I'm usually on brainrot for one of my characters at any given time.

Why's your new username that?

One of my favorite book series is The Scholomance by Naomi Novik, and in the series, Maleficaria are the horrifying monsters that threaten to kill the students every day, and what is tumblr if not a place full of vile, evil beings? Plus, it means you all can call me Mal.

Anything else?

Nope! Other than to feel free to drop me a line and say hello, especially if you want to scream about D20. I'm p alone in this brainrot irl, so I'm pretty much always down to talk about the Bad Kids... especially Adaine and Fabian. I'm also always down to take fic suggestions in my asks! This show genuinely lifts me up when I'm down, so sharing it with people is one of my favorite things.

My fics (shortlist):

In Sweetness, There is Violence: Angsty ACOC one-shot about if Ruby had made a different choice in the finale. Obligatory Caramelinda Caramelinda-ing.

the words i speak are wildfires: A HOTD one-shot I intended to be smut, that ended up instead being more like a romantic sapphic moment of healing between Alicent and Rhaenyra. What can I say? I like childhood friends to enemies to lovers.

Stay Stellar: An unfinished (and, very likely, discontinued) 15-chapter high school AU for Wolf 359 that I wrote with an old friend. Featuring some truly crazy shenanigans, a lot of embarrassing Kepcobi moments, and a surprising amount of theatre.

#mal speaks #dimension 20 #d20 #a crown of candy #intro post #fantasy high #game of thrones #asoiaf #dungeons and drag queens #dadq #the scholomance #dracula daily

7 notes · View notes

thesinglesjukebox · 10 months

Text

IZZY HELTAI - "25"

youtube

From Thomas, a country-adjacent trans singer-songwriter reflecting on his quarterlife...

[6.38]

Thomas Inskeep: Heltai's a trans male folk-adjacent singer/songwriter in his mid-20s who's been getting better with each release, but "25" is a genuine knockout. The song starts out with him worrying about worrying too much and "try[ing] so hard"; his mom reminds him that he's got plenty of time to do, and figure out, things. It's a sweet and simple, loping, strummy number -- think Jason Mraz if he were actually good. But then the bridge comes along, and OOF: "And if I peaked in high school/Then maybe I wouldn't care/But I was just another queer kid/And I thought that I'd be dead/By the time that I turned 20/Guess I'm pushing all my luck/Living past my life expectancy/'Cause trans kids normally don't get this far." The first time I heard this, I started sobbing; it still nails me in the gut and the heart. As someone who was a queer kid in high school who thought (and often hoped) I'd be dead, let alone who realized in my early 50s that my gender identity is neither what the world nor I had perceived it to be, I feel these lines acutely. And Heltai's singing style is so laconic that the lyrics creep up on you. He's not overly emoting, just being very "this is my truth" about it, which makes the impact that much harder. He's one of our best right now, and this is without question my single of the year. [10]

Jacob Sujin Kuppermann: Oh no! I think this song is sweet and meaningful and a beautifully honest rendering of trans and queer young adulthood but I also think it sounds like Mac DeMarco! Diversity win? [6]

Will Adams: There's an earnestness that elevates "25" above the more cynical spate of mental health pop songs we saw in the late '10s, and a warm pop-rock arrangement is always welcome. But I'm 31 now; while I still struggle with how to just live in this world -- we all do -- I've aged out of this particular mode of struggle, which verges on the naive. All I can do is take comfort in its existence; what "Vermillion" was for me at a point in my life, "25" will be for someone out there. [6]

Oliver Maier: I tried for a moment to think of what genre you would call this, but truth be told it just sounds like Spotify to me. It's Vibe-core. Soulful but not effortful indie rock-lite that's always home by curfew. I feels like it's everywhere, but I couldn't name another song that does it because they all feel so disposable (probably something by Rex Orange County; if not patient zero, he's surely a super-spreader). And Izzy is trying to sing about something of enormous importance on the bridge here! Why do this topic such a disservice with such nothing music and self-infantilising lyrics? The way he punctuates the god-forsaken therapist line with a seltzer spray of guitar noise (wake up!!! Mental health is happening!!!) makes me groan. 25 is not too old to have a little more imagination. It's too old to be singing like that, though. [1]

Vikram Joseph: A neat way to recalibrate yourself in time is to remember all the things you worried you might be too old to do 5 years ago, and then to think about how young your 5-years-ago self seems to you now, and then to think about how young your current self will seem to you in 5 years time. Izzy Heltai talks himself round in a similar way on "25", a sweet and wholesome (if slightly unadventurous) bit of country-pop. It's all lolloping guitar and creaky synth, gentle and comforting, at least until Heltai reminds us that "trans kids normally don't get this far." [6]

Ian Mathers: It'd be real easy for me, a cishet white dude who remembers 25 and also remembers not having a lot of 'real' problems at 25, to shrug off this guy worrying that he hasn't done enough at that age. But even if things didn't feel different in general in 2023 (and they do!), Heltai takes time in this sweet and charming song to make explicit why my demographic peers should maybe shut up and think about it a bit: "Guess I'm pushing all my luck/Living past my life expectancy/'Cause trans kids normally don't get this far." It can take a lot to actually feel like you've still got time. "25" is lovely because it feels like, even if just recently, Heltai knows he does. [7]

Hannah Jocelyn: "Why do I try so hard?" I'm working four jobs, and it's not enough; I'm lucky to have a supportive family and supportive friends, I'm lucky in so many ways. I have people telling me I'll get there someday, but it's a ticking clock, isn't it? We know where the country's going; who knows how much time we have left regardless of age. On the bridge of the year, Izzy Heltai says: "Guess I'm pushing all my luck/Living past my life expectancy/'Cause trans kids normally don't get this far/That's why I try so hard." I wasn't sure I'd get this far, either; my egg cracked at 17, and it took the world ending at 22 for me to pursue transition. Sure, I had the privilege of passing as a cis guy, but ask anyone who really knew me and it did not outweigh the suffering I felt. Even now, I have trouble thinking about a five-year plan because I don't know what life will look like for people like me and Izzy in the future. So I find the purposeful naivety of this song affecting; we're going to keep on going anyway and inspiring one another, fuck you. "25" isn't a masterpiece; the production is pristine but uninspired adult alternative (give or take some distorted guitars and a pretty chorused bit at the end), and the pacing of the song is too slow even if the bridge pays it off beautifully. But it doesn't need to be a colossal achievement. We're just trying to live. [8]

Joshua Minsoo Kim: The perfect soundtrack to an award-winning, coming-of-age tearjerker premiering at Sundance. [2]

Katherine St Asaph: His heart is in the right place, and his guitars eventually get there. "25" is self-released, so I'm sure this is exactly the sound he wants to make. But as the Mandy, Indiana single demonstrated, it's possible to have both a message and an instrumental that doesn't sound like James Blunt. [3]

Taylor Alatorre: At first this comes across as a less knotty and warbled take on Pinegrove's emo-Americana fusion, though the unaffectedness of the writing tells me Heltai likely arrived at this synthesis independently. Then that classic alt-rock crunch drops in, with a tone that says "hey, I don't usually use guitars like this in my music, so you'd better listen up." It's a good way to mirror the shifting worries and impulses depicted in the lyrics, without veering too far away from one particular headspace in one particular moment. Unlike the most famous emo-adjacent song about being 25 and aimless, the mood here is more reflective than exhortatory, with an unhurried pace that matches the implied conversational tone between Heltai and his mother. [7]

Brad Shoup: The plain-spoken nature of this--the genial self-deprecation, the way he names his fears with a shrug, the reminder to get some sleep--gets me thinking about those fantastic queer compilations that the Folkways label put together in the '70s and '80s. They're insular and open: a window to warm and messy worlds I will never truly know, but were everything to the musicians and their communities. It makes sense that the trickster coffeeshop-folk would be replaced with drawling adult alternative, and it's touching that Heltai sees the anthemic in such a straightforward text. I hope he's singing this for decades. [7]

Wayne Weizhen Zhang: "25" comes from that feeling where you look around at everyone else enjoying a pleasant day and wonder if you're the only one gripped with anxiety inside about things you've put off or forgotten to do. It comes from that feeling where even after you've done the work of rejecting toxic stress and begun defining success your own way, you still feel self-conscious about your life decisions; where you feel genuinely happy for your peers upon learning about their accomplishments, but secretly and ashamedly wonder how they've all managed to reach their full potential, while your own dreams feel like a perpetual work-in-progress. It's a feeling that one day you realized your other queer friends had too, each of you gripped with the pressure of proving your own happiness and worth in a society that denied your very existence. When Izzy Heltai sings, it feels like he's one of those friends, reminding you that you're not alone. Set to an ambling beat, each confessional is accompanied by the crescendo of a lazy guitar. I hear serious healing and self-care in his voice, even as he conversationally shares interventions from his mom and therapist or casually mentions being a trans kid who didn't think he'd make it to adulthood. I turned 27 last month, officially entering into the late 20s. As an adult, I often experience happiness and community my younger self couldn't have even imagined. But on my worst days, I still feel like I'm constantly chasing a future version of myself--and I'm exhausted by that chase, and scared that I'll never stop feeling that way. I'm also a high school teacher who runs a GSA, seeing the cycles of how young queer kids mask their insecurities by pushing themselves to be the best, setting themselves up for standards they'll later need to unlearn. I want them to hear this song and o know that they're enough the way that they are and they don't have to try so hard--and I want to believe those messages for myself. The most powerful message of "25" is about extending ourselves grace. We will never run out of time to become who we truly want. [10]

Nortey Dowuona: We both got a lot of time left. [10]

[Read, comment and vote on The Singles Jukebox ]

#izzy heltai #music #country music #music writing #music reviews #music criticism #the singles jukebox #Youtube

3 notes · View notes

my-strange-attraction · 1 year

Note

I am a lesbian and I came across Lostryu’s post by way of a mutual of mine. I was curious and wanted to see your response. I have to say your rebuttal contains nothing of merit that could possibly fare as a proper argument. It’s chock full of contradictory statements and straight up lies. I am assuming you’re a USA resident, but the highest university with an LGBT+ population is Brown Univeristy; and only about 20-24% of people reported being LGBT+

As a fellow english major, it was painful to read. Constant contradiction with only half formed ideas; practically agreeing with Lostryu regarding the definition of lesbian only to backpedal…. And words do have meaning, that’s why we use them in our craft as wordsmiths. You can’t simply replace keywords with opposite definitions and expect your manuscript to make sense!

I also want to point out that you degendered Lostryu entirely, refusing to use correct pronouns. That in and of itself is very transphobic. I don’t really trust your judgment as it seems like you didn’t even care about reblogging from lesbian and transgender rape apologists.

I thought you might like to reflect on this, but I truly think you care more about your self-perceived moral superiority rather than actual people.

-🧁

Oh boy. Ok.

Well thanks for being so kind and civil and not attacking my character.

I know you don't trust me, but you gotta trust that a queerer school than Brown exists and I go to it. I can see where the confusion is, after doing a google search myself, because my school is pretty small and doesn't show up on a lot of searches for colleges in the US. I will give you that, after looking up the number myself, it's more like 50-70%, but I will tell you that less than a quarter of the people I know and talk to on a regular basis are straight and cisgender.

I'm not writing an english essay here, it's a tumblr post. If anything, this is a lot closer to how I would format a philosophy paper, which, if you've ever read one of those, are very rambly and have roundabout ways of getting to the point. Also, again, thanks for not attacking my character, here. Thanks for really respecting me and not discrediting my nearly completed degree. Really appreciate that.

I... have no words. I used they/them/theirs pronouns throughout the whole post, which, I cannot stress enough, are NEUTRAL pronouns. I use those pronouns for all people online, and I think most other people do too. Yes, I knew he used he/him and used they/them instead, but I also cut his username out of all my screenshots. I wasn't talking about him specifically, his post was just an excuse for me to explain a concept in depth, and explain why exclusionism such as what he was promoting is detrimental to the queer community as a whole.

I didn't include his username or @ him at all. It wasn't even meant for him to look at, really. He was an example, a nebulous person with an opinion I don't agree with. It wasn't personal, so I used neutral pronouns. I am really sorry it came across that way though, I never want to make anyone uncomfortable and I know pronouns are super important to pay attention to for some people. This is an actual sincere apology.

I don't think I'm morally superior, that's not the point. I don't argue with people on the internet in order to prove my opinions are right and that anyone else with different opinions has made a wrong and evil choice and is unredeemable as a person. Really this whole thing happened because the original post had some terfy red flags and even though op isn't a terf, I wanted to point it out so that people know how to spot it and avoid it.

And do I think it's bad for the community to exclude mspec lesbians? Yes, but I also understand where the frustration comes from. I don't think less of people who have that opinion, I just hope to change their minds, because I think a radically inclusive community is the best kind of community.

#god this post got long #i just. this whole exchange just makes me sad because theyre not even terfs #we actually have mostly the same opinions save for this one #his blog is pretty cool aside from the exclusionary stuff #but he and his followers dont want to try and understand where im coming from which is to be expected on the internet but still disappointi #oh well. i hope anyone who has been following this whole exchange got something valuable out of it #i almost didnt reply to this last anon but i did think it was important specifically to clarify the pronoun thing #i do feel really bad that it came across that way and it was never my intention #queer #genderqueer #labels #identity #cloudy rambles

6 notes · View notes

maladaptive-day-dreams · 2 years

Text

Chapter 2: It Didn't Matter

2.9k words Content warning: (not a fun chapter again, sorry), mention of parental neglect, mention not being wanted, use of Queer as a slur (being queer myself, this hurt me to do), coming out story, fluff, cute lil friendship, first kiss, mention of fighting

Authors Note: Tense switches briefly depending on section. Please let me know if I missed any warnings!!

Tags: @and-claudia

Previous Chapter • Next Chapter • Masterlist

That day in December didn’t matter to Eddie, he still invited me to sit with him and his friends at lunch, sat next to me in any and all classes we had together, saved me a seat on the bus and waved goodbye to me when we got off the bus to head to our own trailers.

I never understood why he let it go until the summer between 8th and 9th grade. Mom and Dad put up with me hanging out with Eddie, though they always let me know they don’t like it whenever I come home for dinner on evenings when he and I spent the few hours between school and dinner together.

“He’s trailer park trash, Y/N. Leave him be. No one talks highly of him and his uncle,” Mom says one night over dinner.

I almost choke on my food. “We’re trailer park trash too, mom, we literally live across the street from them.”

I should’ve just left it alone but I hated hearing her talk down about Eddie and Mr. Munson. They were the only kind people I knew in Hawkins. I taste the blood from my bitten cheek before I feel the sting of my mom’s hand.

“Shut your mouth you ungrateful brat,” she spits. “You’re done. Go to your room.” She gets up and yanks my plate away, tossing it in the sink.

I wipe my mouth on my napkin and silently make my way to my room. Looking across the street, I see Eddies bedroom light on and think to myself he probably doesn’t have to deal with this with Uncle Wayne. I went to bed early that night.

Eddie and I continued to grow closer, despite my parents hating it and him. I’m not sure how but Mr. Munson was able to convince Mom and Dad to let me stay over with them every now and again so the rest of that summer I was at the Munson’s almost every day and night.

* * *

The last night of the summer before freshman year marked the night Eddie and I became true best friends. That day, Eddie and I went clothes shopping with the $50 Dad gave me to update my wardrobe. Eddie constantly steals my shirts, my Metallica one is basically his now and I keep finding my Led Zeppelin tee under his bed so I decided I’d share my clothes money to get Eddie a new outfit that he liked better. Before I went over to get Eddie to head to the mall, mom decided I had done something wrong again. And so, here I am splashing cold tap water on my cheek to try and make the redness go down.

I suck it up after a few minutes and pat my cheek dry, deciding to just pinch my other cheek so they were both red. I rush out of the house and jog over to the Munson trailer just as Eddie was exiting.

“I was just coming to see if we we’re still on for shopping today,” Eddie smiled.

“Yup we are! Sorry, had to finish up some chores before Mom would let me leave.”

We fall into step beside each other and make the trek to the mall. It takes us around 20 minutes to finally get there, and of course we are both hot and sweaty now because of the Summer heat.

“First, things first,” I say as we head inside the poorly air conditioned mini mall. “Lemonade.”

We head straight to the one food vendor in the mall and get a large lemonade to share as we walk. There aren’t many stores here, a few small chains, but we head straight for the big thrift store at the end.

“Ok so, what are we looking for Eds?” I ask sorting through the hangers of t-shirts. “We definitely need to get you your own Metallica and Zeppelin tees so I can have mine back.”

“What?” Eddie gasps. “I don’t know what you’re talking about, I don’t know where your Zeppelin shirt is.”

We meet eyes over the clothes racks and we bursts out laughing. “Alright alright, definitely those two so I can give yours back,” he chuckles. “Maybe some black skinny jeans? And a jean jacket, I want to make a battle vest this year.”

“Oooh if we bring Hellfire to life this year we should get some plain t-shirts to design for us and anyone who joins.”

“(Y/N) that’s brilliant!”

We share a smile and go back to scouring the racks for a new outfit for Eddie. After I find him some cool graphic tees and a jean jacket I head to the girls section for my own clothes, taking some graphic tees with me from the guys section. I grab a few pairs of jeans and even a skirt and dress—which I don’t normally wear—and meet Eddie at the changing rooms.

After a few minutes Eddie pipes up from the room next to me, “ok I think I like this outfit for the first day of school.”

“Gimmie one sec and I’ll come out too!”

I slip the tight plaid skirt up my thighs and half tuck the Blondie band tee in the front, before stepping out of my dressing room.

Eddie is looking in the big mirror outside the rooms, looking more like himself and way more confident than in the clothes he’s gotten from Wayne or church clothing drives. He’s in black skinny jeans, a little on the worn side but not too bad, and an Iron Maiden shirt, he also was somehow able to find new-ish white sneakers and a wallet chain for his belt loops.

“No offense to Uncle Wayne, but that looks a lot better than your usual gas station tee and khaki pants,” I smile. “Does the jean jacket fit? Will it work for your vest?”

Eddie turns around to answer and stops short, “(Y/N) you look so fucking cool.”

I laugh and say thanks before asking again, “does the jean jacket fit?”

“Oh yeah! It’s perfect and will work great for the vest.”

“Cool cool, so, is this your outfit? These are what you want?”

“Yeah I think so, you said I can borrow $15 right?”

“Just bring out what you want, we’ll figure out the money when we check out.”

We both disappear back into our respective dressing rooms and change back into the clothes we came in. I fold my small pile of clothes and carry them out in one hand, my hand me down purse slung over my other shoulder. Eddie is already outside of his room with his own pile of clothes.

“Alright hand it over,” I say, empty arm reaching for Eddie’s pile of clothes.

“What? No we have to see how much money it comes to.”

“Don’t be ridiculous, gimme your pile Eddie, I’m not gonna make you put anything back.”

Eddie’s eyes go wide, “How? What?”

“Ugh alright then just walk up to the register with me,” I sigh. “I’ve been saving my measly allowance the entire summer so I could cover everything we found today.”

“(Y/N) that’s too much, I can’t accept that.”

“Then go outside so you don’t see the total,” I tease. We get to the register and once Eddie puts his pile on the counter I turn and push him towards the door. “Ok byeeee, I’ll be out in a minute!”

Eddie huffs but does leave the store so I can buy our goodies. In total, Eddie found the sneakers, two pairs of jeans, four band tees and the jean jacket while I got four band tees, one skirt, one dress and a worn down but still decent pair of converse. I also was able to find two white baseball tees with black sleeves for our future D&D t-shirts and secretly found a few pins and patches for Eddies future battle vest.

“Alright darlin, that’ll be $67.50,” the cash lady said after stuffing everything in three plastic bags.

I hand her the $50 bill dad gave me and then counted out $18 ones, handing over the crumpled money with an apology. “Sorry, I get my allowance in ones.”

The woman smacks her gum loudly while counting the money again and then drops the fifty cents and receipt in my hand. I mumble thanks and grab the three bags from the counter. I found Eddie leaning agains the glass windows of the storefront and he takes two of my three bags with a sheepish thank you.

“You didn’t have to do that,” he mumbled.

“Shut up Eddie, I wanted to, plus this way we both look cool as fuck the first day of freshman year.”

Eddie smiles at that and we head out of the mall and back towards home. We get home as Uncle Wayne is leaving, “Oh good I caught ya. I got called in to work the night shift and wanted to make sure you two are ok to stay home alone.”

We nod and say g’night to Uncle Wayne as he backs out of the driveway and Eddie and I just hang out in his room the whole night. Bedtime is non-existent since Uncle Wayne wasn’t home and we end up staying up and talking and reading together all night.

“How’s your cheek?” Eddie asks, drawing my eyes from The Hobbit.

“What?” I ask, pulling my head up from where it hung off the edge of the bed and sitting criss-cross applesauce on his bed.

“It was red this afternoon, when you came by?” He questions. “I know you don’t talk about it but you can. I get it, I really do.

His voice sounds like it’s dripping with pity. I never wanted him to pity me, he’s the one person I can’t take that from.

“I don’t need your pity, Eddie,” I respond, sliding off his bed and getting ready to leave. I can’t do this today, not when school starts tomorrow.

“My dad hit me too,” he says softly. I look at him and his eyes are so, glassy, he looks so broken and my heart breaks with his mask as he lets a few tears out.

“Eds” is all I can get out as I get back on his bed and hug him. We cry for a bit together, just holding each other.

“It started in 5th grade,” he says, breaking the hug and laying his head back on his pillows. I shuffled to the space between him and the wall and laid beside him, staying quiet so he could let go. “My dad found me in my mom’s room with her makeup on and using one of her skirts as a dress,” he laughs. “A quick smack to the face and no dinner was enough to get me to stop ’messing around and acting queer.’”

I kept quiet but held his hand in mine to give him some support.

“I didn’t stop though, I just tried to get better at hiding it. Sometimes I’d get caught. It was the worst in 6th grade. Mom had let me have a classmate over to work on homework and hang out, and Dad got home earlier than I thought he would,” he paused and took a deep breath. “He walked in on me kissing him, my classmate, and he yelled so much. He called my classmate’s parents and yelled at them but saved the belt for after they came to pick him up. That classmate was pulled from school because everything started circulating our town. Dad never forgave me for the ‘stain’ I left on his family’s name.”

“Eds, I’m so sorry,” I can’t think of what else to say.

“It’s okay, Y/N. Really, that’s how I ended up here with my Uncle Wayne. He adopted me just before you showed up, he doesn’t question me. I came out to him when he first brought up adopting me,” he laughs. “He was confused what ‘pan’ meant and accepted it as well as he could with being unfamiliar with it. I remember he said ‘who ya love doesn’t matter boy, it’s how you love them and how they love you,’” he says in his best Uncle Wayne impression. “‘As long as you love each other the best you can, who they are doesn’t matter to me. I just wanna see you happy, alright?’”

He turns and smiles at me. I smile back, “thank you for being comfy enough with me to tell me.”

“You’re my best friend, of course I was gonna tell you.”

I take a deep breath.

“My parents never wanted me,” I start, and he squeezes my hand. “And they never miss an opportunity to tell me that either. Dad knocked Mom up senior year so they had a shotgun wedding right after graduation and I showed up two months later. It’s gotten worse the last few years, especially before we moved here. I actually got kicked out of my old school for punching my girlfriends bully in the face when she called her a lesbian—that’s why we moved. We were best friends and girlfriends but we tried our best to hide that. No kissing, hand holding to a minimum, that kind of stuff. Mom gave me a right big welt on my cheek that night when I told her the rumor was true. She was mostly angry that I ‘ended up a queer' even though I told her I was bi and could still end up with a husband. She didn’t care though, and then Dad took it worse. He yelled a lot, threatened to send me to conversion camp or boarding school but we could barely afford new clothes for me at that point so I know they were empty threats. And then we packed everything up and moved here.”

“It was fate.”

“What?” I laugh.

“Fate or someone up there knew that us two lil gay middle schoolers needed to find each other by high school so we could conquer the world together,” he smiles, mock stabbing the air with an invisible sword.

“You’re such a dork,” I laugh. “But now we’re stuck with each other,” I say rolling onto my stomach.

Eddie follows suit. “We know each other’s biggest darkest secrets. Promise that we’ll always be there for each other?” He asks, pinky outstretched to me.

“Always,” I say, intertwining our pinkies. “Promise we’ll get married to each other if we aren’t married by 30?”

He lets out a laugh and takes my pinky in his again, “promise, married by 30.”

* * *

In fall of 9th grade, Eddie was why I got punched in the face by Jason—I tried to stop him from continuing to hit Eddie. Funny how it was Jason’s fault but as soon as the boy cried self-defense from the ‘queers,’ Eddie and I were the ones suspended. The nice thing was that it was only a few days before Christmas break so we got a bit of an extra long break.

Mom wasn’t so happy though so my break wasn’t much fun after I went back to my own trailer.

* * *

The summer before 10th grade, Eddie was my first kiss. I mentioned it out of pocket one evening while we’re sitting on his bed, side by side, back on the mattress and legs up on the wall.

“I can’t believe I made it all the way through freshman year without getting kissed,” I groan, pressing my palms into my eyes. “What kind of a loser hasn’t been kissed by now? I mean come on! It could’ve been a boy or a girl! I had double the options! But nope!”

Eddie chuckles and then slides his legs from the wall and sits up. Confused, I do the same and we sit face to face. “Kiss me!”

“I’m sorry what?!” I ask baffled.

“Look we’re best friends, best friends do this kind of stuff for each other. A girl as pretty as you shouldn’t go into high school without having a first kiss, soooo kiss me to get it over with! Nothing has to change, it’s not like we like each other,” he explains.

I look at him questioningly. “I don’t know, Eds.”

“Just trust me will you? It’ll be fine,” he says scooting towards me. It’s awkward, for sure, but also we were best friends and by this point he had told me about every kiss he had in 8th and 9th grade—both boys and girls—so he obviously had to know what he was doing. Right? And he was right, we don’t like each other, we’re best friends that would be weird.

“Ready?” He asks, a big grin on his face.

“As ready as I’ll ever be,” I laugh. We shift from sitting to kneeling, kneecaps touching and Eddie starts to lean in.

And then I laugh much too hard when he closes his eyes and purses his lips and he stops and lightly smacks my shoulder.

“Y/N,” he whines. “Cut it out and focus! Do you wanna be labeled the ‘never been kissed loser of 10th grade?’”

I huff. “Yeah didn’t think so,” he says. “Close your eyes so you don’t start laughing again.

I do as I’m told and close my eyes. I feel Eddie’s body heat as he leans in to me, and then feel the softest touch of his lips on mine before he pulls away.

“Voila! You’ve been kissed!”

“Wait that’s it? It’s way more tongue in the movies.”

“Sorry but I refuse to show you how to French kiss, that’s not on the lesson plan for today or everrrr. You’re by best friend and that would make things weird,” he laughs. I join in laughing with him and then we shift back to our original positions and fall in to a comfortable conversation about the upcoming school year.

#nothingmattersbutyou #eddie munson x you #eddie munson x reader #eddie x reader #eddie x you #eddie munson x fem!reader #eddie munson stranger things #eddie munson #eddie stranger things #eddie munson fanfic #eddie munson fic

8 notes · View notes