#pro timsteph

[punkeropercyjackson]

Batfanon stans describing Stephanie in Robins posts after doing thought out picks for Dick,Jason,Tim and Damian:

The same Batfanon stans describing Duke on the same Robins post after not reading any of the white/white-adjacent to them Batboys comics either,including the one where Jason said he hates incest and includes Duke in it:

[halftonevoid]

timsteph being besties is an unshakeable canon event to me. no matter the au, no matter how canon uncompliant we're being, those two are ride-or-dies for each other. always.

[necrotic-nephilim]

i think stephcass could have been potentially interesting if fandom let steph be herself and not ultimate uwu girl boss erasing all her negative traits. where is her jealousy? unhealthy obsession with her crush and complete lack of understanding of the concept of boundaries ESPECIALLY if that person is already dating someone? where is her almost manic urge to push away other potential love interests (and at this point i realized she would NOT have been so chill with ives if tim had come out much earlier yikes)

BIG AGREE OH MY GOD YOU PUT IT INTO WORDS.

because i love TimSteph for the reasons you listed!! there's something very unhealthy and teen girl-ish in the way Steph approaches relationships. she's angrily jealous and she thinks about Tim in a possessive way. like she is just so consumed by him and it's meant to be male comic writers writing how they think teen girls write about boys in their diaries- but it comes off as incredibly toxic. it's one of her deepest character flaws and what endears me so much to 90s Steph. she throws herself so deeply into romance when she has it, like she's afraid if she lets go of it for even a second it's going to leave her. and god forbid you be the person she falls for bc you will never maintain a healthy relationship with someone she views as competition, she *will* sabotage it. and to me these are all pros of her character. i *like* seeing how vigilantes struggle to maintain normal relationships- *especially* teenage vigilantes. Steph struggles to balance her "regular" life with being Spoiler and what things deserve a Stephanie Brown reaction and what things deserve a Spoiler reaction. and when she's dating, it's almost *always* going to be a Spoiler reaction and she shades her relationships through that lense. it's why civilian partners for Steph never really interest me. (besides the fact they always feel forced and clunky, like Steph's recent think with Maps' older brother?) it doesn't explore the way Steph loves to her fullest extent and how far she goes when she's into someone. there's no sweet puppy love for Steph, when she's all in, she's *all* in. she will do what she thinks is best for Tim oftentimes by her own will without his knowledge or approval, and sometimes massively fucks things up for him. bc she's just so wrapped up in what she believes is best, consequences are secondary.

and sure, she maintains healthy friendships. bc most fodder with StephCass is very healthy and soft. bc it's a *friendship*. and it changes radically when Steph is involved romantically. it's why there's such a difference in how Steph regards Tim when they're just friends as to when they were dating. she loves him and he's always going to be important, but that obsessive passion isn't what drives them anymore. so it's something you have to consider with *any* Steph ship in which it's a character she's had a friendship with- that how she interacts with them as a friend doesn't necessarily inform how she'd regard them as a lover. and that's the issue with StephCass. even the StephCass content that *is* comics informed (tho, a lot of it isn't and while i don't think fanon needs to be based on the comics to be good, i do think Steph and Cass are difficult characters to tackle if you aren't at least semi-familiar with their canon content bc of how warped they are in the fandom-) comes off with such a rose-colored lense that sours it for me. hell, even on Cass' side, things she's *canonically* done have been weird and obsessive about Steph. but that's never explored.

(tbh dare i say it's something to do with the phenomena in fandom that yuri is morally pure and perfect and yaoi is always dirty and bad- there's this almost sanitizing of sapphic ships sometimes to make them perfect and cute together and while i'm not here to yuck someone else's yum, i do think it's *telling* that women in fandom never get to explore the complex depths of unhealthy and toxic love in the way men do bc if you make a woman evil, it's misogyny. if you sexualize a woman too much it's misogyny. if you write her doing morally fucked up things even with the understanding it is her canon character, it's misogyny and you're villainizing her. i can sit here and say Tim is canonically shitty at relationships and ppl will not. if i say the same about Steph, then i'm critiquing a woman and holding her to an unfair standard. it's exhausting. it feels like StephCass only ever exists to depict Steph and Cass as morally pure and in love angels kissing in the background while the men get to do complex and nuanced and fun things in the foreground. this thought has probably been far more explored by others with more developed nuance on it, but i just wanted to point it out bc it's a very real thing i keep seeing *especially* in the Batfam fandom-)

and equally i think Cass' reaction to this intensity and obsession from Steph could be interesting. Cass historically has had poor reactions to knowing everyone is attracted to her and thinking about her, so that level of intensity i think could cause some negative reactions out of Cass that would add some very layered conflict to the ship. some of Steph's most negative traits *do* clash with Cass' wants and needs. it makes the ship more fun! it puts Steph's flaws on display as well as Cass' flaws and her internal issues surrounding romance. StephCass could be so weird and fucked up. but it's been defanged by this fandom in a way that turns me off to it. i love both Steph and Cass and i love exploring sapphic Batfam ships, so it *should* work for me. but the irony of it being popular in anti spaces combined with no one being able to acknowledge the flaws either of these characters have for the sake of making them kiss just. bores me and it's sucked any interest i could have out of it. bc god forbid women just be a little fucked up. </3

[mik3stuff]

Timsteph moodboard? /nf

Timsteph | Stephanie Brown x Tim Drake moodboard for @punkeropercyjackson

!! nsfw/racists/anti self-insert | self-shipping/pro-shippers/queerphobes/creeps DNI !!

[ahoforaveryho]

It’s official. My hatred for Steph anti’s has officially outweighed my hatred for TimSteph and now I ship them out of spite.

Long live TimSteph, I guess.

Still hate the little fucker and that will never change.

[batfamquotes]

if you’re out here thinking timsteph is incest you’re a fucking idiot

please explain to me how they’re related oh wait they aren’t

how stupid do you have to be to think that’s batcest? have you never picked up a comic book or done any research before running your mouth?

stephanie, unlike the other robins, was never adopted by bruce wayne or one of his biological kids

do you morons think dickbabs is incest too because they’re also members of the batfam?

being in the batfam is not the same thing as being members of the wayne family. for example, luke fox is batwing. he is a member of the batfam, but he is not a member of the wayne family, he’s a member of the fox family. so if he were to say, be shipped with, for example, dick grayson, it wouldn’t be incest because, say it with me now: they are not related by blood or adoption!

so if you’re out here thinking timsteph is incest just because they’re in the batfam even though they aren’t related, and you post hate in the tags, again, you’re an idiot, you have brain worms, and you deserve to have your eyelids ripped off

[phoenixkaptain]

Why would you want to ship one thing when you can ship everything? Variety is the spice of life.

[spite-and-waffles]

Pros and cons of stealing a very delicious JayTim plot from an author who bashes Steph and Damian in what seems like every fic they write, without tagging the character hate, despite repeatedly being asked to, who also puts that shit in the TimSteph tag. Discuss.

[punkeropercyjackson]

Word of mouth really kept me away from Tim Drake comics at first.I joined the DC fandom due to becoming a Jason Todd stan from watching Utrh so naturally i heard all the usual anti Tim points-He's a spoiled ungrateful brat,he thinks he's better than everyone else and rubs it in their face at the most purposefully insensitive moments,he gets everything handed to him instead of earning it,he's a raging misogynist and white privilege on legs in a domino mask.But then i got around to reading his Robin run for Stephanie Brown,followed by 90s Young Justice and Red Robin,plus some misc main Batman stuff with him as a major player and it was like.This is Tim Drake,he sucks at everything but it works for him.He has no manners but he's not malicious,just oblivious and a control freak for what he believes is the best for everyone at the sacrifice of his own safety and health because he considers others worth more than him.He's genuinely hilarious and he's a legit skapunk and not a poser.Most of his important relathionships are with women and the only sexist things he says are very tame and rare compared to normie male teenagers and a product of their time rather than Tim's actual character.Almost all the adults in his life failed him so he has no good coping mechanisms and dosen't know what they look like on other people either so he can't properly socialize as a cause of it.He openly shows affection to all his loved ones in extremely cheesy ways sometimes with no shame and is so earnest and passionate about everything it gives secondhand embarrasment.All his fumbles were made with good intentions and the cast rarely properly communicates with him enough to help him fix that problem on him.The 'mistreatment of Damian' was acting like a petty teenager to his little brother and his 'superiority complex over Jason' is trumped by Jason beating him to a pulp as a grown ass man out of self-motivated 'vengeance' on someone he'd never met and who owed him nothing.Like damn,this that 'greasy white incel' y'all were talking about?

[everydayily]

if your ships are not “relationships goals” you’re doing something wrong

[thatblondeperson]

What's your favorite timsteph moment from comics and what's one you've written?

Oh man, I have too many!!

Favs tho:

Their first date in Robin issue #57 and the moment at the end.

Neither of them wants the night to end, but just loOK AT TIMMY!!!! He's so happy that he just has to do a little flip on the swings, it's the cutest shit ever. And even though this next panel is from Convergence: Batgirl, it still is a part of this date and it's too cute not to add into the compilation of dorks being in love. LOOK AT IT.

Do you know how many times I've made this my wallpaper? Too many times.

Also this itty bitty bit of a page from RR issue #10:

Do you see it? Allow me to read too much into something. (And I don't even mean Tim still feeling like it's his job to protect Steph)

It's this.

This is my Ao3 pic and I'm gonna be a massive fangirl and say that even though this isn't like an official kiss, it's one of my favs because Tim's eyes are just ever so slightly open, like he wants to keep them on her. You've got both of them with those gentle touches on their jaws. Not to mention the subtext of Tim's memory of this being in pink, giving it a literal rose-tinted view, meaning this is a positive, optimistic, idealistic memory. Now these could mean many things, but given the nature of their relationship in RR, I'd say this is a sign of Tim forgiving the past a bit. He's not thinking negatively about Steph, he's remembering working together and being in love. It's cute, and imo displays some of those lingering feelings pretty blatantly. Your ex I'd about to be shot and you're thinking about how you two used to make out?? Priorities, Tim. (RR Tim was way too horny 🤣)

Plus next page you get this:

Look who's in love again.

LOOK AT HIM.

And this, in Robin issue #102:

I will never be over that intense look on Tim's face when he's planning on making Steph soup, it's just so intense! MUST MAKE MY SICK GIRLFRIEND THE PERFECT SOUP!!

And then he carries a massive pot of soup across Gotham and on the subway to get it to her. He loves her 🥰🥰🥰

And don't forget their whole date in Robin issue #111. The infamous piano date. Like I've said it before, @incoherentbabblings just made a post about it, but Tim and Steph aren't great at communication or opening up about difficult things. This arc is one of the better ones for their domestic growth, but I just love how vulnerable she allows herself to be in front of Tim, and how respectful and supportive he is of her. Is this sort of thing I wish we could see more from them, then leaning on each other and finding a space in each other that they don't have anywhere else. Little things like this that when over time it builds up, you end up with a relationship where they know each other so well, and can read each other easily. It's a special bond that they have, not broken even if they aren't romantically linked.

Also these, which are old edits by @fragileicicle I believe? But I love the quotes. They give me heart palpitations.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😭😭😭

They were so in love.

BUT HEY YOU ALSO ASKED ABOUT MY FAV MOMENTS IN MY FICS!!

Which hey, thank you, I always wanna talk about my fics. People should ask me about my fics. Gonna put it under the cut though to not be annoying...

There's a lot of little things I like in my fics. I loved writing drunk Tim in Un-Bottled Feelings, especially the idea of him trying to picture a bigger Arkham built around the current Arkham to stop the breakouts. I just like the image of him strategically planning that out as a viable solution to keeping the worst criminals locked up instead of running amok.

I just loved writing completely helpless Tim being super flirty. The loss of inhibitions allowing him to be subconsciously unfiltered. It was fun! Though I need to fix that fic...the pros and cons list doesn't format right on mobile. Alas...

I really like the simplicity of Kisses From Tim Drake. I just saw a list of kisses and I was like "WHY NOT ALL OF THEM??" Any excuse I have to write happy couple TimSteph being affectionate and sweet with each other, building a relationship and whatnot.

For Finding My Way Back to You, just getting to write their flirtatious banter was fun, giving them a punchy back and forth. It's really fun in their first collision in their suits when Steph continuously calls him her potential sidekick. I like giving her the upper hand a little bit, even if I wanted them to end up in equal ground.

The whole Tim/Kon/Bart interaction in ch 5 was SO FUN! That was a chunk I had written way back before that fix was even written. I knew I wanted if in the fic, I just didn't know where. The whole bit with Tim climbing into her window at the end because he's scared of her mother, but he's just reminiscing on days when he used to merch out there smitten with her.

I kinda liked doing things like that in that fic, rewinding and resetting. The smack to the face, the casual Tim stalking, the coming in through the window, the usage of Scarecrow since he appeared in turning point fights for both of them, the starting over at the playground. A sort of "go back to the beginning to move forward" sort of therapy for both of them.

LOVED getting to address Tim's burn scars. Such a point of tension for both of them, but there's so much potential in allowing them to be a healing symbol for the two of them as well.

The whole little "not date" in ch 9. Funny thing about that...I pulled R-Patz name out of thin air because I assumed this fic is taking place in like 2011 and I looked up popular actors of the time, and of course Twilight was huge...but then after I wrote that he got cast as Batman and I just decided to keep it. It was perfect.

I got to do so much either this fic. I pulled out every cliché, I got to write jealous Tim, horny Tim which was recieved better than I thought it would be, I got to write Tim slowly opening up more and being more relaxed and carefree, a side of him we only got in internal monologues by RR it seemed, I liked writing Tim trying to apologize fof being a jerk while they're both in the middle of a hand-to-hand fight, I liked writing a new piano scene which no lie, that almost kiss was also drafted well before I'd even written ch 1. I loved getting to name Tim's fishies too. They deserved names.

I think the things I think of the most with that fic when I looked back on it were:

The scene talking about Steph's death. I saw a post saying that Tim doesn't have to apologize for that and people who expect her too are being ridiculous yadda yadda, but much ruder. And here's the thing...no she doesn't have to apologize for running off without telling anyone, that was her decision and she had her reasons, but that does not mean she wouldn't. People were still deeply affected by her absence and the grief of losing her. I loved writing this little bit especially:

"It's alright," Tim said, pulling out of their hug. Come back… He brought a hand up to her face and stroked her cheek lightly with his thumb. His hands really did feel nice, so incredibly nice. "I can't pretend to understand everything you went through, but I just… I wish you would have told me."

Stephanie leaned forward, letting her forehead rest against his, staring into his pale blue eyes. "Would you have let me go?"

Tim stared right back into her eyes, and Steph could have melted into his touch. "Would you have listened to me?" 

Steph smiled softly. Of course she wouldn't have, and Tim knew that because he knew her. Nearly every last piece of her. It was easy to feel safe with him. She wondered how much Tim felt the same in regards to her. 

I just loved that section of dialogue. This whole scene of them breaking through some of the worst of their shared wounds, all while tim is stitching up a physical wound? I'm just really proud of myself for that.

The whole ch 18 talk/kiss interaction was originally very different but there's one paragraph in there that I desperately love in regards to Stephanie drinking her peppermint tea.

It tasted like Tim. Like late nights on rooftops poking fun at other heroes, watching the way Gotham came awake at night, making constellations with the lit up windows on the buildings when they couldn't see the stars, locking lips while the ambient sounds of the city rumbled around them. She gripped the mug tightly and brought it close to her chest while Tim cleared his throat, tapping nervously on the side of his own mug.

The whole point of that fic was to cover EVERYTHING. I read so manh panels of do many comics, trying to get all of their low points and traumas out on the table so I could go through them in the most constructive and healthy way possible while still playing true to their tendency to kind of be hot and cold with each other before they find a comfortable thermodynamic equilibrium space. Getting them to air out their skeletons so they can move on and start anew. I've wanted to write that fic since I got hooked on that ship. It's my masterpiece.

THANK YOU FOR THIS ASK!!!! I'm sorry this was so long, I loved this question though. This took me forever to write up. I'm doing g this on mobile with like...10 tabs open. But thank you!!!! ❤💜

[danny-chase]

24 35 and 45

24. Ship(s) that makes you cringe.

Incest ships (fr why is j*yd*ck the most popular relationship in the JOSEPH WILSON tag y'all need help). DonnaDick makes my heart hurt. DamiRae, WallyRae, DonnaTerry, JayRoy, joyfire, DonnaJay, BBrae, JayKyle simply confuses me, TimSteph, DonnaWally, DamiJon, BruBabs, JayBabs, TimBabs, HarveyBabs, KoryRoy, if DickJon or ConnerJay becomes a thing because they're interacting in canon rn those ones too. I don't necessarily cringe at birdflash or TimKon but I feel like they're overdone and there's more interesting ship dynamics out there, and they highly centered around the batboy and rarely explore the non-batfam member.

35. Have you read any bad comic book PSA’s?

Yes! Robin 1993 has a pro-life awful psa that i read, as well as a few random teenage gambling informal psa's shoehorned in for undiscernible reasons.

45. What’s the worst take you’ve seen about [x] (popular or not)?

(specified Raven later). Joking takes from discord are pretty cursed, I think the worst one there was Terry licks her toes (gives me damage typing it). I think the popular take that's really been limiting her character and doing the most damage to her is that she's goth.

[incoherentbabblings]

i'm kinda interested in what the press thinks of Stephanie and by extension Timsteph

I guess it depends on the angle of bigots or biases!

Cons for Steph:

Crappy father, mother a former drug addict, comes from a meh neighbourhood and background, was a teen mum, not exactly up to par with high society norms and keeps putting her foot in it.

Pros for Steph:

Long history of knowing members of Wayne family (Cass and Tim) before ascension into extreme wealth, demonstrably close with other close members like Damian and Babs, Cinderella angle of being a victim of circumstance and being an underdog, thriving in adversity, paying herself through college, working a part time job and close relationship with local Gotham hero Leslie Thompkins, sympathy angle of victim of gang war who got her life back together and is thriving...

IIIIIIIIIIiiii think it would be a situation where - and I kind of touched on it in a couple of my fics - where the press would like her actually. Finding the Cinderella angle too neat to ignore. 

The general public would probably like her as a result (not to compare to like actual royalty but I think of the absolute fawning that Diana, Kate and Meghan got when the first got married... like that level of awe for what sometimes looks like simply existing) because again, underdog story everyone loves a fairytale etc... and Steph would have the drive to keep admirable works and actions going, enough to build her up a lot of good will.

Gotham high society would absolutely loathe her though. Interloper, social climber etc. Luckily their opinions don’t mean shit and Steph would continue on her merry way. 

I can totally see it going the other way though. I can see an argument for old money that can be more accepting of the different than new money, as they have ‘less to prove’ and are more stable in their superiority. Less likely to be threatened by one nice white blonde girl. However the press and general public can be vicious as we all know. 

I’m coming at this from a very British perspective though. I don’t really know if American press or society would behave like that. So uh, happy for a discourse if need be?

[sohotthateveryonedied]

I was playing BitLife (don’t judge me) and one of the automatically generated law firms was Brown & Drake, and now I’m just thinking of Lawyer!Timsteph. Steph insisted her name would go first because it would “scare off all the people who think you’ll defend them because they’re your dad’s friends.” They have a very Kirsten McDuffie/Matt Murdock relationship. They take too many cheap or pro bono cases because they just can’t resist.

I LOVE THIS

[batfamquotes]

he had it coming

he had it coming

he only had himself to blame

if you'd have been there

if you'd have seen it

I betcha you would have 

done the same

NOTE: if you’re anti timsteph don’t touch this post. this isn’t for you. this isn’t supposed to be an argument against timsteph. don’t write metas or essays on this post about whatever. it’s not that deep. 

this is a pro timsteph blog. these are images from the pre new 52 and all panels make sense in context if you’ve read the comics. 

[the-shark-is-a-mammal]

Amg, por favor me ajuda! Como é que vc acha que tá indo as vendas da HQ do Tim? Eu tô muito preocupado pq eu só vejo homofóbico e fãs chatos de timsteph jogando hate. E alguém no twitter deu a entender que viu os números de venda das duas primeiras edições e parece que não ta vendendo bem ( mas eu não consegui achar em lugar nehum qualquer tipo de número de vendas desde agosto então eu não sei de onde essa pessoa tirou isso). Sério, eu tô amando tanto TD:R, tá sendo tudo o que eu queria pro Tim há anos mas eu não consigo mais nem ler uma edição nova sem ficar com medo de que série seja cancelada.

Oi! Desculpa só responder agora, eu não tinha visto a mensagem antes, mas é acho que o pior aconteceu. Foi mesmo cancelada. Eu fiquei bem deprimido, pq eu tava amando aquela série, mas enfim, fazer o quê. Vamos torcer pra que pelo menos o Tim e o Bernard continuem juntos, mesmo que não tenhamos uma dose mensal deles.