#tw endo

[aspd-culture]

hey, i've really enjoyed this blog so i want to make absolutely sure: your stance on endogenic systems is "they have trauma, they just don't know it"?

Yep. If someone is genuinely a system, that is incompatible with having no trauma. If someone genuinely did not have trauma, they by our current scientific understanding cannot be a system.

That said, unlike many other people with this take, I try not to push endos to realize that because if they were ready to, their system would have told them. I know *multiple* people who identified as "endo" before remembering their trauma when they were ready to and realizing they were very wrong.

I also know people who formerly identified as "endo" but realized that trauma to a child can be things as "simple" as a divorce or death of a very important person in their family etc. It's not always super intense abuse. Whilst that is much more likely to cause a system it is in no way impossible to see it from things that are not commonly thought of as traumatic. It's a great time to acknowledge this actually because it's true of every trauma disorder - childhood trauma is inherently going to be different than adult trauma because children are less resilient with less life experience and their brains are still in development so they are much less likely to "bounce back". It gets cemented in their development that pain like this is part of the world and they need to develop ways to cope.

The things that an adult believes they cannot manage to survive, and therefore need to change the way their brain functions to tolerate, has a *much* higher threshold than the same for a child because a child has not seen proof of what the human brain and body can survive. Further, a child hasn't developed the ability to emotionally support themselves, so emotional neglect can make it so what in no way even upsets a child with a support system may feel unsurvivable to a child without any. If you didn't know how much blood you could lose and still live, you would think the smallest scratch might kill you - that's what life is to a child.

All of that is to say, systems don't need to have lived through unspeakable horrors to be systems, but they *do* need to have some sort of trauma as far as we currently know. If you look into adverse child experiences (ACEs), you will probably be surprised as to what counts as traumatic in the mind of a child. I cannot stress enough that a kid may become traumatized enough to develop a system from almost *any* normal negative part of life if they have no emotional support to teach them how to adjust and handle pain. That is where, in that case, the system would come in - to be the ones helping them process and handle pain since no one else is.

If the psych community were to find in multiple repeatable studies that there is a reason for non-traumagenic systems to develop, I would change my stance because I know that psych knowledge especially has a very short half-life. We learn new things all the time. But for what we currently know about how systems develop, they cannot do so without some type of sustained trauma.

If that affects your enjoyment of this blog, I'm not sure what to say. It is not common that systems even get discussed here, though it does come up sometimes because both are trauma disorders (with ASPD being infrequently purely genetic I think?). When it does come up - because all of this blog besides the culture asks are based in current psych knowledge, the DSM/ICD, and my personal anecdotes - you will see my understanding in my discussions of it. It's not to alienate anyone, but it's no different than someone asking me to say something currently believed to be factually wrong about ASPD for their comfort; I can't and won't do that.

I don't mean to come off hostile, this is all /neutral, it's just that I hate the idea that an ASPD blog that is helpful or enjoyable to someone might in some way have that positive impact affected by a currently accepted truth about a completely unrelated disorder.

Is it right of me to take that out on you though my tone? No, because you're not the one causing that emotion bc I don't even particularly know your stance on this. Unfortunately though, despite rewriting this post like 3 times, I cannot seem to get the /neutral tone to come across properly. Just... please understand it is there because my autism is not letting me phrase it right.

[pensarecool2]

Read my DNI in my pinned post. If you fail to look at my page, and get upset with me over where I stand about things, and get it wrong, I’m just going to ignore you.

“Endogenic systems” who use terms like “sysmed” and “traumascum” are just blatantly admitting that they know they are wrong. They have to use terminology relating to transphobes so that they can trick people who are uneducated about what a system is to gain sympathy points. It is absurd.

Becoming a system is a trauma response to repeated abuse as a child. The type of system can vary (DID, OSDD, etc), as well as the abuse, but being a system is a trauma response. It is possible to not remember your trauma, it is possible to work through it and live a functional life. It still originates from childhood PTSD.

“Endogenic systems” try to compare this to being transgender. I have seen posts about “xeno origins” trying to compare this severe psychological trauma response to gender aesthetics. You cannot compare these two things. Its just completely absurd. A lot of times actual systems find it difficult to articulate how its absurd because these are not comparable things at all.

I’m not even sure if I know exactly how to explain this, but I feel like it should be considered common sense that PTSD responses and gender identity are vastly unrelated. Someone pointing this out does not make them the equivalent of a trans-medicalist, harassing non-binary people for not transitioning.

This comparison is only made because a lot of people understand how trans-medicalism is bad, and when the comparison is made to that, they want to take the side that was right in that discourse. Its an understandable response, that is why those terms are used to manipulate people.

You cannot become a system without trauma first, regardless of if you can remember it or not.

[shattered-system]

I’ve seen some art with the line “the future is plural!”

I hope it isn’t.

More systems means more abused kids.

[wxrmeaterz]

"The future is plural" movement from endos is CONCERNING

regardless of the fact they do not believe you require trauma to be a system (medically impossible) this proves they want to groom kids into identifying as endo and spread their medical misinformation further.

as well as causing real systems to believe they dont have it bad enough to be "traumagenic" (the only "genic you can be. this language is bullshit im just using these terms to explain their shit), preventing them from getting real help. they are WIDELY anti-recovery.

their misinformation has ALREADY endangered real systems medically as they have made professionals skeptical of a medically proven disorder, a disorder that is already very stigmatised.

outside of just endogenic misinformation, this statement leads to the idea that they want to traumatise kids to make more systems.

ENDOS ARE FUCKING DANGEROUS

[thestrawberrypack]

There definitely like Are systems who thought they were endogenic but realized they were traumagenic but the anti-endo rhetoric of "even if you think you're not traumatized you must actually be secretly traumatized and just repressed it otherwise you're an ableist and a faker and an attention seeker" is uh, Profoundly Fucked Up, Actually

Going up to strangers who say they experience multiple people living in their head and saying "actually you must have some horrific mind-shattering trauma you don't remember" is, well, I just don't think it's very good for them, best case scenario is they're truly endogenic and know better than to believe some random asshole online, worst case scenario is they go digging and unearth trauma they were not ready to process and have a mental health crisis, all just so randos online can deem them "uwu valid"

[sysboxes]

[Text: This system exists.]

Like/Reblog if you save or use!

PRACTICE BOX FOR NEW MODS

[razorbacksys]

"You are not alone"? Sure aren't!

[forestmothsystem]

reasons we are pro endo.

the first, and most important, is that i genuinely do not care what goes on in your head. system developed without trauma? ok. system developed with trauma? ok. system created on purpose? ok. more than one of these? ok. something more complicated? ok. i support you.

other reasons include that anti endo stuff seems to be very intertwined with fakeclaiming. i suppose not all of them do this, as there seems to be more than one way to be anti endo, but one way i see a lot is the very simple statement “endos actually don’t exist and all of them are faking”. of course, there are the other varieties, such as “endos are just traumatised and don’t know it” and “endos are delusional” (genuinely fuck off if you tell anyone that they’re delusional as an insult). probably some others that i’m missing. i also see these same people saying that they’re anti fakeclaiming, or having fakeclaimers in their dni. do they know? did they simply never think about what they are doing?

i don’t like fakeclaiming. i have trauma surrounding similar things to it. if someone fakeclaims me, i can shrug it off (mostly. there are some things that will trigger me.) but if someone fakeclaims someone else, that almost always triggers me. i cannot stand someone being fakeclaimed. there is an intrinsic pain in being told that you are lying, that your pain is not real, that what has been happening to you is just a lie and the product of a child’s overactive imagination, and i hate the idea of that happening to someone else, because *nobody deserves it*. it hurts to see that people hurt other people.

and telling people that they are traumatised will not do anything good. firstly, one is assuming that they haven’t already tried searching for their trauma. what if they have, and can either confirm that they do not have any, or that it is not intertwined with their systemhood? or what if they haven’t, and one’s pushing makes them unearth trauma that they were not ready for? this can cause actual harm. it has real consequences.

and telling people that they are delusional is a shitty move. firstly, having delusions is not something one can throw around to insult people with. it is a genuine condition and if someone is actually delusional, reality checking can cause them harm. and saying that someone is delusional just seems to be a roundabout way of telling someone that they’re faking. i actually do hate people who tell other people that they’re delusional. delusional people do not exist as a way for one to be an arse to other people. they are people who have a condition. delusions are not automatically evil, despite the fact that they have been demonised.

and endos do not exist to harm people, despite the beliefs of some. plurality/systemhood is not an exclusive club that only people with severe trauma can access. even though i could access this hypothetical club, i don’t want to be in it if it automatically excludes people. plenty of endos still have trauma even if it does not intertwine with their systemhood. this is to say nothing of mixed origin systems, who are always excluded from this discussion. if they are not purely born of trauma, then would they be prevented from accessing spaces for trauma survivors who are systems? i do think there should be spaces for trauma survivors, but saying that they need to be endo free is a bit assholish to those who are mixed origin systems.

those are my main reasons, among others.

-rant from a traumagenic system who is so tired of having to read about others being fakeclaimed.

[a-bit-of-syscourse]

Okay I know how much it sucks when you love a blog and you see "DNI, (pro) endos" but can we talk about how GOOD IT FEELS when you're anxiously checking the DNI and it says "DNI anti-endos"???

Like not only do you not hate me and what I stand for but I also feel SAFE here??? Like we're on a pretty similar page?????

[delphientropy]

(may edit/revise in the future)

you say the future is plural,

that there will be thousands nested in yours,

but i hope that your future is not true.

if it were,

every day, the news would be horrid.

every parent to hold a belt like a whip

every parent dismissive and neglectful

every friend hostile and hissing

every doctor cruel and unwelcome

every priest holding you down, you are devilish

every human to hold you as a freak

every water prepared to sink you.

your future sounds like a nightmare.

i hope the future is unity.

i hope the future is single.

i hope the future is one.

[cccat-in-a-meat-sack]

By the way, I've seen a lot of discourse on "endogenic" alters, so repeat after me

Your brain splits alters as you need them. That means you can have a completely trauma based alter, and you can also have an alter created to deal with homework, aka an "endogenic" alter. If your system formed from trauma, you are not "traumaendo". You are traumagenic. Full stop.

[antiendovents]

wtf??????????????

... They want kids to be absued and traumatized.

[schizogenic-sweethearts]

Just saw a post that was like “I don’t want the future to be plural because that means giving kids more trauma” and then they tagged it pro endo 🤨🤨

“The future is plural” is about radical acceptance of all plurals and living in a world where we’re allowed to exist without being shamed or harassed for it. It has nothing to do with creating more trauma!! Especially because that’s not a requirement for plurality at all!!

[sysboxes]

[Text: This alter could really use a smoke.]

Like/Reblog if you save or use!

[chloe-wants-to-kill-herself]

Why is there still debate going on over whether endogenic systems exist? Like in 2024 people still try to claim that cdd's are the only possible way to be plural and that is just silly. That's not how knowledge works. Things exist outside of our current perception of the world. DID existed before people knew about DID, we were still systems and the reason we are recognized as systems now is because we self identified as such until people accepted it. Nobody on the outside can tell whether someone is a system. There are certain things which can point towards it, but nothing can be observed by someone else to prove it concretely. There is no reason to assume that plurality can only happen as a trauma response, that is anti science. If people are self identifying as systems who don't fit into our current theories, then it sounds like our current theories are wrong. We don't decide how the world works and then try to hide evidence that it doesn't work the way we decided it does. We seek out evidence which conflicts with our ideas and then develop new, better ones which incorporate the new evidence.

[the-alarm-system]

How Anti Endos made me in denial even longer, and how Pro Endos made me Accept it

When I was younger, I always had Red at my side. Red is my protector, he always has been. I didn’t understand him, I didn’t understand his existence. I’d hear about DID, I met people with DID, but to me Red didn’t match what they have felt. I would tell people that I had another person in my head, someone who may allude to DID but I’d affirm that it was not DID. It was something else to me, something I didn’t know for sure. At some point I thought that Red was given to me by the Gods. He would deny this but it’s what made sense to me.

I was in anti endo circles, I still saw myself as a singlet and my system friends were very anti endo. I thought it was just the right non-harmful sides, I didn’t know the actual arguments. I just thought that’s how it was supposed to be because DID hasn’t made sense to me yet. I was a “singlet” who didn’t understand why there was another with me. anti endos circled around r/fdc and I didn’t want to accept that I may have a headmate because I didn’t want to be a dirty faker like they all hated. I didn’t want to be harmful towards my friends

One time I saw this pro endo term, it was about a system granted by deities. This made me think, but I ended up just blocking them because no endos are bad right?

then I saw an anti endo argue that schitzogenic is dangerous and thoughts in someone’s head was stupid and fake and just hallucinations. I thought “but between you and them, what is the difference in the idea that they have someone in their head too?”

then I found the term plural, it was inclusive, it made sense to me. But I stayed in denial

then scald appeared, he was loud, he would front a lot, he wouldn’t just appear when I was in danger like red did. I decided to take the term plural, I didn’t call myself a system yet, at the time plural is what made sense. I felt like I didn’t have the right to “appropriate” the did struggle. I was plural, I was many. Then finally at some point

I realized I could have DID, my headmates were sourced from trauma. Things started to connect, I stopped denying it. I had to the way Scald would be. Anti endos held me back, pro endos saved me. I owe them everything.