#tw for discussions of homophobia

[strangersteddierthings]

The Conversation

Final Part of The Interview [Part One] [Part Two] [Ao3]

Steve finishes putting on his boots, shoves a beanie on his head, and grabs his thermos of coffee before heading outside. Robin had texted when they left Pendleton so they should be arriving soon, and he wants to make sure the dogs stay clear of the driveway, and also finish some of the chores he is being lazy about. The mountain air is cold in February, and the snow is deep, but it's still warm for a winter day in Eastern Oregon.

His childhood house had been at the edge of a little forest. His current home is tucked away in the woods, trees for miles, and the nearest neighbor farther still than that. He's lived a lot of places, been able to see the whole of America almost, and in the process, he's learned that he'll always be a small-town boy. The real revelation is how at home he feels in this two-bedroom cabin sequestered away from any town at all. Sure, he's got to drive a little over half an hour to get to the nearest grocery store, but he's learned he likes that.

He's got 1600 acres of woods all to himself and the dogs. He's owned this property for almost four years, but recent events made him finally move out here. Originally, he'd bought it to make it as another flip project, but something in his gut told him to make it a vacation home / safe haven for his family instead. Robin, mainly, as a getaway from the LA life and overwhelming spotlight she'd started to face as her music career took off. He might be turning it into his permanent home and base of operations, but everyone knows they're still welcome.

Anyway, the day might be warm for winter, but the night won't be, so Steve sets his thermos on the top of the wooden railing of the porch and heads down the steps to the woodshed. The plan in the summer is to update the cabin, which includes adding central air and a good heating system, but until then, portable heaters are in the bedrooms and the wood stove gets the rest of the cabin. There's also plans to start the construction on the guest house. It's going to be a busy summer.

He replenishes the woodpile on the porch from the woodshed and debates chopping more but decides against it. That can be a tomorrow chore. Next is cleaning up the snow paths he's made previously. Doesn't want anyone falling on their ass on the way to the house, no matter how funny that'll be to watch. As usual, Pancake makes the task difficult because she wants to play with the snow shovel. Melody cries until he throws snow into the air by the shovel full for her to play in. Chowder, old man that he is, supervises from the porch, front paws hanging just off the top step.

It's rough going but he manages to complete the few chores, even with two dogs underfoot.

Steve is on the front porch, forearms holding his weight as he leans against the railing, thermos of coffee between his hands, taking in the afternoon sun and enjoying the silence when Dustin's work truck slides into the driveway. Almost literally, given the foot and a half of snow still on the ground. The driveway is long, okay. Steve's doesn't have enough time in his day to keep up with salting it all.

It'll be strange to see Eddie after all these years. He still can't believe Robin got him to come. When he'd asked how she did it, she brushed him off with an it's not important.

Speaking of Robin, she's the first person out of the truck, sliding out of the passenger seat and then cursing when she drops right into the snow. She shoots an accusatory look towards the cabin, and therefore Steve, like he placed the snow there himself, when the fault is Dustin, who has left the driver side with plenty of room between the truck and the snowbank.

Dustin gets out of the truck and Steve faintly hears him say this side, man, less snow before pushing his door closed and turning to brace himself as Pancake and Melody rush from the porch to circle like sharks, barely restraining themselves from jumping up. Chowder follows after slowly, taking his sweet time getting to Robin, his favorite human. Steve can't even be jealous about that because Robin is his favorite human, too.

The back driver side door opens, and he watches as Eddie Munson all but falls out of the truck. It's the least graceful anyone's looked getting out of the back of the truck and that's counting Chowder and his old man hips. Seeing Eddie again is- well, it's a lot of emotions all at once, but they're are all overshadowed at the moment by how Eddie looks... well, bad. His hair is longer than Steve's ever seen it, a little longer than mid-back length, but it looks like it hasn't seen a proper hair brush in a couple of days. Even from this distance Steve can see the bags under his eyes. He looks like he hasn't slept in days.

He pushes himself off the railing and meanders down the two steps, waiting for them to notice he's waiting. Robin trudges out of the snow berm and to the front of the truck, where Chowder is waiting patiently for his pets and kisses. Dustin has managed to get Melody to stop hopping in front of him so she can get her side scratches, and Pancake has realized there is a new, third person with a set of hands currently not petting her, and is circling Eddie, waiting for him to reach down and pet her but he just stands completely still, heading tracking her in her circles.

"She's friendly, I promise," Steve calls out, which makes Eddie's head snap up to look for the source of the voice. Well, everyone looks, but Eddie looks like he's seeing a ghost, which. Fair. Steve kind of feels the same way.

"Hello, Dingus," Robin calls as she stands from her crouched position, where she's been cuddling Chowder. As soon as she stands, he starts making his way back to the porch. "I have delivered one Edward Keaton Munson. You are not allowed to ask anything of me for, at minimum, a year."

"Steve! Why didn't you tell me you knew the Eddie Munson?" Dustin shouts.

Robin is scoffing, clearly offended. "Am I not famous enough for you Henderson!?"

"Get back to me when you've run a 24-hour Dungeons and Dragons live stream for charity!" Dustin shoots back, then has to dodge Robin's half-hearted punch aimed for his arm.

Eddie stays silent, looking more pale than when he got out of the truck. Steve's a little concerned he's going to faint.

"You been living under a rock, Dustin?" Steve asks. "My knowing him is apparently the only thing on the internet currently."

Dustin puts his whole head into the eye roll. "You spend a month backpacking with your girlfriend in the southern hemisphere and you never get to hear the end of it. I told you I'd catch up on your drama after I catch up on my DnD Live Plays."

"You also missed me winning a Grammy, you know."

"I thought Steve's thing was more important?"

"You are impossible, Henderson."

"You guys going to argue in the snow all afternoon, or do you want to come inside?" Steve says then places his fingers in his mouth and whistles. Melody and Pancake dash for the front door, where Chowder is already waiting. Dustin, Robin, and a still eerily quiet Eddie fall into line to walk the trail to the porch Steve had cleared.

Steve jumps the steps, grabs his thermos, lets the dogs in, and then holds the door for everyone else. Robin and Dustin breeze past, but Eddie slows, eyes jumping around Steve's face as they just look at each other for a moment. Eddie opens, then closes, then opens, then closes his mouth.

"Hi," Steve offers up, shifting a foot to hold the door open so he can wave his fingers at Eddie.

Eddie swallows thickly, then whispers back, "hey."

"In the house, Eddie. Don't want to let too much cold in," Steve tilts his head towards the doorway.

"Oh, right, sorry," that kick starts Eddie again and he crosses the threshold, Steve close behind.

Robin and Dustin are currently occupying the bench just inside the door, taking off their shoes. Once Dustin has his boots off, he leaves the bench, heading to the kitchen. Eddie seems lost, just standing in the entryway, so Steve takes the spot Dustin just left and proceeds to undo the laces on his boots. He gets one boot done by the time Robin stands, wandering after Dustin once she's hung up her coat, scarf, and gloves. Eddie doesn't move still, so Steve pats the empty spot beside him.

"No shoes in the cabin. Dogs track in enough snow, don't need us doing it too," Steve says, then busies himself with his other boot.

He sees Eddie sit and begin to untie his- jesus, he's not even wearing boots. Just a black pair of sneakers. Eddie unties his shoes in silence, sitting rather stiffly next to Steve.

This quiet, obedient Eddie is not what he expected.

"You want something to drink?" Steve asks, once both of them are free of their shoes.

"No, thank you."

"Alright. Have a seat, then," he gestures towards the couch. The cabin door opens up directly into the living area, which Steve has set up as 3/4th a living room and 1/4th dining room, in that a small kitchen table is along the far wall. Beyond that wall is the kitchen, where Robin and Dustin are undoubtedly helping themselves to his coffee or hot chocolate.

Eddie shuffles off to sit on the edge of the couch, as close to the armrest as he can get. Now that Steve can see him closer, he can see he's added more piercing to his face than just the eyebrow ring he wore in high school. Snake bites, a septum piercing, and a second eyebrow ring next to the original. He's sure that if Eddie's hair wasn't covering his ears, he'd see more metal there. Eddie had hung up the coat he'd been wearing but under that is a hoodie he didn't take off, so Steve can only guess if he ever got those tattoos he'd been planning in high school. His entire outfit is black, which just makes him look sickly in the cabin lighting.

Steve drops himself into the chair facing the couch. It's Melody's favorite chair to curl up in, but Steve thinks she'll forgive him for taking it. There's tension in the room, so he tries to break it. "You look like you've seen a ghost, dude."

Eddie makes a weird nose, almost a whimper or a whine, but before he can say anything, Robin rounds the wall, holding a mug of hot liquid and she says, "Oh, I'm sure he feels that he has. I didn't tell me we were coming to see you."

"Robin!" Steve is shocked.

"What? You said you wouldn't mind getting some closure, so I got him here. Does it matter how?" She takes a seat on the opposite end of the couch from Eddie, making a show of how comfortable she is in the space by sitting cross-legged and leaning back against the couch, in comparison to Eddie who is sitting up completely straight, barely on the couch with how close to the edge he's sitting.

"Yeah, it does! If he's not here voluntarily- if Eddie doesn't want to talk to me you can't-"

"I do," Eddie says. It grabs Steve and Robin's attention and Steve sees Eddie almost wilt under their twin stares. He clears his throat before continuing, "I mean, I would have come still, if she'd told me. I do want to talk to you. Apologize for.... for everything. So much I don't even know where to begin, or how."

"Uhh, this feels like something personal," Dustin says from where he's standing with his own mug, hovering nearby. "Should I be here for this?"

Good question. Steve doesn't care if Robin and Dustin hear what they talk about, but Eddie might. "How about we just relax a bit. How was the drive?"

Eddie scrunches his face, a half confused expression on his face.

"Fine," Robin says at the same time Dustin says, "Tense as fuck."

"Those two things don't seem like they match," Steve says.

Dustin moves to plop himself on the couch in between Eddie and Robin, then quietly curses as his drink sloshes over the edge of the mug. He starts mopping at it with the sleeve of his shirt as he says, "Robin is a liar. The tension in the truck is going to linger that's how bad it was. I'll be feeling the tension every time I get in the rig. Clients will feel the tension when I pull up to their curbs!"

"It was not that bad!" Robin swats Dustin. Successfully this time, since there's no way for him to dodge unless he wants to spill his drink again.

Steve just laughs. "Robs, light of my life, mate of my soul, knowing you and your grudges, Dustin's probably going easy on the description of the tension here."

"Well, there wouldn't be tension if I was allowed to say what I want to say."

"Can we go, like, five minutes without your negativity?"

"My negativity!? I'm not negative, I'm rational and level-headed!"

"You are not sounding very level-headed right now."

Dustin chimes in, "Steve's right. Level-headed people don't have to shout that they're level-headed."

"What say you, Eds?" Steve asks, the old nickname slipping out. He doesn't have time to be embarrassed about it though.

Eddie stands quickly and flings his hands in the air, having reached an invisible limit Steve is unaware of, pacing about the living room as he basically shouts, "Why don't you hate me!? You should hate me! I hate me! I can't- why are you just sitting there, trying to have a-a decent conversation with me? You should be screaming at me! You should be mad! Why aren't you? My fuckin' song ruined your life!"

The silence in the living room is heavy following that, all eyes on Eddie. Even the dogs, who had been in various states of sleep, lift their heads and look in Eddie's direction.

He looks mortified by the out burst, and his face turns red. "I-I'm sorry. I- I'm just, I'm sorry. I need air."

They all watch silently as Eddie jams his shoes back on and goes out the front door without tying them or grabbing his coat.

Steve sighs, deep and annoyed. At Robin and himself. He looks to Robin and she looks shocked by Eddie's outburst. She was watching the door, but turns her head to meet Steve's eye, a small frown on her face.

"Well, it's not like he's going far," Dustin says. "You going after him?"

"I don't know if I should."

Dustin scoffs. "Don't be an idiot, of course you should. We drug that guy to the middle of nowhere to talk to you. He agreed to come to the middle of nowhere even though I could have been a hit man hired by Robin to off him in the woods and he didn't even complain. Didn't even question. I don't know what happened, but I think you two need talk it over."

Steve blinks at Dustin. "Since when did you get so wise?"

"I've always been wise. You just refuse to see it with your ageism. Go. Robin can fill me in on the beef, here in the toasty, cozy cabin, while you two chat in the cold, and freeze your asses off."

"I don't have ageism-"

"Wrong argument to be having, Steve!" Dustin interrupts. "And take another cup of coffee with you. Even if he doesn't drink it, dude doesn't have gloves either so y'know, warm the hands."

Steve does just that. Fills his other thermos with coffee, taking a chance by adding cream and sugar, before putting his boots, coat, and beanie back on. He throws Eddie's coat over his arm and tucks both thermos' against his body with that same arm so he can have a free hand to open the door.

Eddie isn't far. He's pacing back and forth in front of the truck, talking to himself.

Taking a deep breath to steel himself, Steve steps off the porch and makes his way to Eddie. "Hey."

The pacing stops and Eddie turns to look at Steve. They just look at each other as Steve approaches. Steve doesn't stop until he's close enough to reach out and touch before he shuffles the two thermos's to his other arm and extends the one with Eddie's coat on it out.

"Thank you," Eddie says, taking the coat and shoving himself into it quickly.

"Brought you coffee, too," Steve holds out one thermos and after a pause, Eddie takes it, too, then almost instantly brings his other hand up to cradle it, warming his fingers.

He looks up from the thermos and meets Steve's eye. "I am sorry, Steve. I'm sorry for how things ended between us, and for the song I wrote, and for-for not thinking about how people would be able to work out that you were the Steve from Hey Steve. You should hate me for that alone. I'm so sorry for everything that's happened because I didn't think of the consequences."

"I don't- I don't hate you man. Not... not anymore. Not for a long time."

"Well, you should!"

Steve frowns. He wants to argue because who is Eddie to tell him how he should feel? But that's not going to help anything. "When Robin called me. During her interview after the Grammy's and asked if she could tell the truth I never- I didn't know what she meant by the truth. But. Well, nothing she said was a lie, but it wasn't the full story."

Eddie stays silent, seemingly waiting for Steve to continue.

"Those first two years after our breakup were- I'm not going to lie, they were fucking awful. I think I received my first bit of hate mail the very same day Hey Steve released. It was harsh. All from the same person, but sent to my Facebook and my Twitter and Instagram. Guess they really wanted me to read it.

"And then, with each passing day, a new person, new message, just as awful. After three days I deleted Instagram and Twitter. Then I locked down Facebook but like- physical letters showed up at my house. I can't lie, it certainly felt like you'd ruined my life."

Eddie makes a wounded sound at that. "That's because I did! What I did was unforgivable and-"

"You don't get to decide for me if I forgive you or not!" Steve snaps. "I haven't actually said I did forgive you, did I? All I've said is I don't hate you."

That gets Eddie quiet again for a moment, then he says, "you ended up hospitalized because of me."

"Robin said I ended up hospitalized, and that's true, but it wasn't- It was more complicated that just being your, and your fans', fault. For people who were supposedly on 'your side' of our breakup, they used a lot of homophobic language. That's how my mom found out. The letters were easy enough to just get rid of because all the bad shit was on the inside, but someone sent a post card, and mom collected the mail that day. It's... I don't like talking about this."

"Then don't," Eddie is quick to say, "you don't have to explain anything to me, or make yourself relive these events. It's- you don't owe that to me."

"I think I need to. I wrote you a song, said I'd do it all again, and I meant that. I want you to understand why. Just. Just give me a minute."

Eddie nods and takes a sip of his coffee. He looks pleasantly surprised and takes bigger drink before his face falls into a frown as he stares down at the thermos and Steve has to look away. He turns and squeezes his eyes shut to continue. "Mom showed the postcard to my father, and he confronted me that evening. It was.... it didn't start off bad. He asked if it was true. That I was gay. I made a choice, then. I didn't have to; I could have lied. I could have told him I was straight and that I didn't understand what the postcard was saying, but I didn't.

"I knew how he felt about queer people, and I told him the truth anyway. I was bisexual. I thought it was a miracle that he didn't kick me out instantly. Instead, he calmly asked me if that meant I liked woman. I said it meant I liked more than just woman.

"Then he told me that didn't matter. That so long as I liked woman, I would be with a woman, and that we never had to speak of this again. And I told him no. He didn't get to decide that for me. He said that he would rather have a dead son than a faggot one. And I thought- I never- surely he was just meaning, like, metaphorically, right? Like, he'd disown me, kick me out or something so I scoffed and said- God, I was so stupid. I knew it wasn't safe, but I was so angry at him, I shouted 'dead or alive, I'm your faggot son so deal with it.' And he- he said 'dead it is' and he attacked me."

He hears Eddie suck in a breath, hears the crunch of snow in what could only be Eddie taking a step towards him but stopping after just one step. Steve doesn't know if he wants Eddie to close the distance and give him the hug he knows Eddie wants to do. Steve doesn't know if he'd welcome the embrace or not. He sucks in his own shaky breath, and continues, "He almost beat me to death that night. The only reason he didn't was because mom dialed 911," Steve turns around, looks at Eddie and sees the tears falling down his own face reflected on Eddie. "As far as I know, dad's still serving time for his attempted murder, so like, at least I don't have to worry about him. And mom... I don't even know what to think of that.

"She called 911, didn't want to see me die, I guess, but also couldn't have a gay son. She sold the house, and everything in it, while I was still in the hospital, and just... disappeared. Robin's family took me in. She told that story during the interview, you knoe, but I wasn't even at the house when that guy with the gun showed up. I was meeting with a lawyer.

"She-Mom was- I don't know what she was trying to do but she gave me the family business. The whole company! It felt like she was trying to buy my forgiveness, except she didn't ask for it and still hasn't contacted me. It's like... she felt guilty about what happened but hated me at the same time. Felt she needed to do something to alleviate her guilt? Or maybe she just wanted to cut herself free of the whole Harrington name; free herself from me and my father. I don't think I'll ever get closure for that one."

Steve quits talking, needs to take another moment. He'd already rambled on about more than he meant to but talking to Eddie had always done that to him. Afterall, before they dated, they'd been friends. He sips at his coffee, not knowing what else to say.

"Jesus, Stevie, I'm so sorry. I didn't know- It's no excuse but I'm just so sorry."

He doesn't think Eddie knows he called him Stevie, but it's nice to hear. "So, see, it wasn't your fault. Your song set things into motion, for sure, so it's nice to hear an apology, but like, if anyone is the bad guy in this situation, it's Richard Harrington."

"But Robin said she just had to help you move to here. That you still get hate mail, and doxxed. That's on me. I saw your list of addresses, Steve! You've had to move, like, eight times a year!"

Steve can't help the cackle that springs from him. He surprises himself with the laugh, and Eddie, too, if his wide eyes and eyebrows hidden behind his bangs are any indication. "I- yeah, I move a lot. And yes, this most recent move was because of a brick with Hey Steve scratched into it broke my living room window, but like, I've only had to move because of harassment like, four times, if I'm counting the whole mom-selling-the-house thing."

"What?"

Steve holds up a finger, adding a new one as he counts them out. "Mom sold house. Scary gun guy at Robin's. The year anniversary of your first album's release. I was still in Hawkins, figuring out what to do with all the money I'd, uhh, inherited I guess, so I was easy to find. And the most recent one. Not sure what inspired it this time. Usually, the hate mail resurges when you go on tour, but it's less and less every time. Anyway, none of those other moves are because of crazy fans."

Eddie blinks at him, a picture of confusion. "But I found a YouTube video and that guy- he showed all your old addresses. He said- I thought..."

"Well, there are a lot of addresses. But not because of your fans. I move for my job. Do you... did you even read the truck?" Steve gestures to Dustin's truck and Eddie steps around to see the printed H&H Project Flip and below that is their website.

Eddie looks back to Steve like that answers nothing. Which, fair, but it would answer a lot of questions if Eddie had looked up the website. "After that surge of anniversary hate, I knew I needed to get out of Hawkins. Robin was graduated, then, and headed to college. I decided I wanted to see more than just Hawkins. I followed Robin to college in Chicago, and uh, bought a house. A real fixer upper but that was fine. I had plenty of money to throw into it. On a whim I thought, what if I try to fix it. I had a lot of free time and if it ended up badly, I could afford to pay a professional to fix whatever I broke. I found that I loved doing that."

He's still just being looked at like he's not making sense.

Steve rolls his eyes, "I flip houses, dude. Me and Dustin. Harrington and Henderson Project Flip. I was in Chicago for three years, lots of addresses for that city. But then Robin pointed out there were a lot of states. That I should see all 50 of 'em by renovating a house in each. She'd moved in with her then-girlfriend by this time, so she said I should go. See the States at the least. So, I did. I find it easier to just live in the house I'm renovating, so I'm not paying mortgage and then rent somewhere else in the same city."

Eddie looks like he's had a rug pulled out from under him and he lets out a laugh that's a little hysterical.

"And moving so much has allowed me to meet so many amazing people, y'know? I got friends in all the states. So, like, yeah, you did ruin my life, but like, just my life from 18 to 20. So, yeah, I'd do it all again. Did you think I've been living in perpetual misery for the last ten years?"

"Robin certainly made it easy to assume that, so yeah!"

"I think she did that on purpose. To hurt you back."

"I deserve it," Eddie says. "I didn't even try to check in on you. Well, once, but when I couldn't find you on any socials I just. Gave up."

Steve shrugs. "I didn't reach out either. And if you'll remember, I broke up with you. Screamed in your face that we were over and went home."

"I don't know when, or even if, Corroded Coffin will tour again, but I swear to you, we'll never play or release Hey Steve again. And I'll release a statement, or go on camera, or something, and address this. I can't make it right, but I can make a change starting now, to do better and be better," Eddie says this while gripping his thermos to death.

"I believe you, and I forgive you."

Eddie nods grimly, then looks from Steve to the cabin, and back to Steve. "Do you think Robin will ever forgive me?"

"I don't know. You hurt her pretty badly, too. We were all best friends in school and when we broke up, you cut off Robin, too. And then, when she started to gain her own fame- I think when she first moved to LA, she thought you'd try to reach out. But you never did."

A silence falls over them, and Steve refuses to break it. He's done enough talking. They drink their coffees 'til they're empty before Eddie speaks.

"Where does this leave us?"

Steve thinks about it before answering. "You were my best friend before you were my boyfriend. You'd been in my life longer than you've been out of it. We don't have to be anything. We can have our closure and go our separate ways, if you'd prefer. But, I think I'd like another chance at being your friend."

"I can do friend," Eddie says slowly, like he's picking his words carefully. "I can. But, full transparency, I think I still love you."

It hurts to hear, after all the pain and the time, and it's a bittersweet kind of hurt. "I'll always love you, Eds. I meant it, you know, every word of the song. But I don't know if we can, or should, try again. We were so good until we weren't."

Tears spring from Eddie's eyes when Steve says he loves him, and they don't stop falling even as he's nodding along with everything Steve says. "No, I know. I know. I just, I needed you to know. Friend is, it's so fucking great. More than I ever expected, and certainly more than I dared hope."

"Come on. Let's go inside where it's warm and chat with Dustin and Robin like civilized people. I need a break from the heavy talk."

"Yeah. Me too. Thank you, Steve. For the chance."

Steve shrugs and shoots him a crooked grin. "Yeah, well, ruin this a second time and Robin will rip you to shreds on live TV, probably."

There's more to talk about. More hurts to heal and things to discuss, Steve knows. And maybe after all the talking, they'll learn they've changed too much to even be friends. But that'll be okay, because if that's how it goes, it'll be because they talked it out instead of screaming at each other in a living room.

If they've changed too much, this time, it'll end gently.

It doesn't stop Steve from letting a little bit of hope in. That this won't end, that they can find a way to be in each other's lives again.

As friends, or more.

[my-traumacore-sideblog]

feeling rly unsafe 2day, but it's specifically bc of being a trans guy, i keep seeing stuff from cis women abt how men r always the worst and how men hav a duty 2 make their lives revolve around women or else we're sexist, how apparently men need 2 all b willing 2 lay down their lives 4 any woman or else we're just as bad as the creeps who make ppl feel unsafe 2 go out at night and yes i said people not just women but they only want 2 acknowledge it when it's a cis woman that's the victim

i did not fucking sign up for this

i did not fucking sign up 2 sacrifice my life either literally or thru dedicating my life only 2 others just because the pronoun "he" fits me better than the pronoun "she"

i should not hav 2 worry that im an inherently bad person because of being a gay trans man

i should not hav 2 worry abt being perceived as a threat bc of being a queer man of colour

i've honestly started to hav thoughts abt de-transitioning not bc being a guy in the way i am doesn't fit me but rather out of fear of the scrutiny every action of mine will b placed under

i was sexually abused as a child but i guess that doesn't matter anymore because im a man now, boys don't cry they punch ig, apparently since im a man now it means im destined 2 become that which hurt me

all i want is to be a man, in a nonbinary way yes but still a man (demi-guy), i want to love men who love me back, i want to live a quiet life surrounded by love and happiness, i want to live a gentle life

but no.... because im a man now then apparently it must make me predatory in some way

i can't de-transition... i know i wouldn't survive emotionally... so i stick with it, with allowing myself to be a demi-guy.... but it hurts knowing that me being free is perceived as dangerous, that im seen as inherently a threat to women

edit: so a terf started clowning this post, just 2 make this shit clear, this is not a fucking debate blog this is a me posting abt my feelings blog, i would've thought the url "my-traumacore-sideblog" would've made that clear

also no racism and sexism is not the same thing

yes women face oppression at the hands of men and should be allowed to talk about it but men also face oppression at the hands of women and should be allowed to talk abt it, 4 men who r not in a minority group this is usually in terms of legal stuff (how r*pe is legally categorised, custody disputes ect) but this is even more of an issue and more every day when it comes to men in marginalised communities, yk like me, yk like what i was venting abt in my fucking post i should b allowed 2 talk abt my own oppression 2 and acting like me venting abt my own oppression in a post tagged as a vent post on my vent blog makes me the same as my white oppressors is not only terf shit but also racist and it shows a lack of political literacy, a woman has just as much capacity 4 violence as a man but a queer man of colour is seen as inherently violent and a white woman is inherently seen as always being a victim but ur ok w/ these white women using that power of perceived vulnerability 2 call 4 violence against queer men and men of colour and especially queer men of colour just say u want cis women klansmen and leave im not backing down from talking abt my own oppression bc of white woman tears

anyways person who clowed is now blocked so don't bother trying 2 respond 2 my edit

[kiwisandpearls]

I feel so weird about amatonormativity in fandoms.

because like on one hand I most definitely agree with people who criticize those who will instantly assume that two characters must be in a romantic relationships based on the actions they do for each other.

on the other hand tho, ive seen so many people use that criticism to do nothing more than just discount people who ship queer ships, along with the phrase of ‘oh so girls/guys can’t be friends anymore?’ especially for queer ships that while not technically canon have a lot of material for shippers and would have no one bat an eye if one of the characters were the opposite gender and in some cases would probably make the ship more popular (example: farcille).

[frownyalfred]

i wanted to talk about a bruce and alfred thing somewhere but didn't want to post it so hope it's cool to ramble about it here

so i'm picturing bruce having to grow up with homophobia obnoxiously being everywhere at school and everywhere in general, but also being very aware of his own bisexuality, but never having discussed homophobia or being gay at all with alfred. so, alfred has his guesses but nothing is ever really discussed, hinted at, or addressed. bruce lives a good portion of his life not knowing alfred's opinion on all this, and so for a time he hides any and all gay activity from the world, and more importantly, alfred (+dick if it reaches that far).

one day, though, the paparazzi paparazzis and boom 'Bruce wayne seen with man!', 'Bruce wayne gay sex?', and 'Bruce wayne gay???????' is plastered on every newspaper and television screen and is being discussed everywhere. bruce of course has his public image shifting to think about but all he's thinking about is well. shit. his family knows. fuuuuuuuuuuck

and he goes home and alfred's there, blankfaced, and bruce's face similarly does not display anything readable. they don't address The Hey I'm Gay thing. blah blah bruce losing it in his head for the whole day while in the manor, then when dinnertime rolls around, alfred basically does a 'hey you know being gay is all good and cool right son' speech and bruce internally feels the weight of multiple universes disappear from his back. feels etcetera tearing up hey wouldn't you know it your sort-of dad is also bisexual whodathought

I really like this, anon. Because it’s the kind of thing Bruce would either feel he had to do or would do despite the consequences, yet the consequences still matter. He cares what Alfred thinks.

He cares what his kids think too. Does it matter if they just think he’s gay for the cameras? Does it hurt if they all assume it’s a cover too? Does he need them to see the full picture or not?

[vexy-hexy]

Hey, so am I the only one who's kinda curious as to why we give so much shit to J.K. Rowling for being a stupid TERF (which is deserved, might I add), but Scott Cawthon got off pretty good all things considered for donating to people like Trump???

I think there have been a few times I've brought Scott's shit up and have been essentially told to shut up, that "it's not too bad"...

Unlike Rowling, where every shitty thing she did and still does, it's constantly in our faces and a good amount of the fans (that I've seen at least) acknowledge and admonish her, but the FNAF community (again, that I've seen) seem to not like anyone bringing it up or just brush it off (I think some people are still JUST finding out about the donations because a lot of people seem to try and hide it???), even though Scott has said he wouldn't apologize despite him donating to homophobic, transphobic, and just, all-around bad people who have the power to take away people's rights to be themselves

Just... I feel like we should give the same energy to Cawthon that we give Rowling since they both suck as people, and I’m definitely guilty of not giving Scott enough shit

Like, am I the crazy one here???

[sylvies-kablooie]

trying not to be too torn up about it because as far as homophobic microaggressions go, my dad changing the radio station (while being in the passenger seat of MY car) the minute he heard the opening riff to katy perry's "i kissed a girl" is pretty hilarious

[mommyclaws]

look as a lesbian I don’t get why it’s so awful to just want lesbian spaces?? We as queer people all have different experiences and we can have smaller spaces while still embracing the whole community.

Lesbians go through different experiences than bi non-men do. That DOES NOT mean “we suffer more” or whatever because I hate the whole oppression olympics shit. We are not attracted to men neither sexually nor romantically, and that’s what makes us oppressed in this heteronormative world. We go through harassment, corrective rape, violence, and conversion “therapy” because we are homosexual. If my dad ever found out I was exclusively attracted to women I would get kicked out. Why is it suddenly so awful and “gatekeepy” to ask us to have our own spaces? We still have sapphic spaces! We even have bi spaces and pan spaces! Heck, I see gay non-women are allowed to have their own spaces!

It’s harmful to be treated as a monolith. I’m not attracted to men, and saying im an “exclusionist” for this is lesbophobic. I’m not evil for being exclusively attracted to non-men. I’m not evil for saying we should have our own spaces while we’d still have sapphic spaces!

Words have meanings, and the lesbian label is important to me, for all of its history and all of my struggles. I’m tired of us all being seen as “big mean lesbians who hate men” so so much. It reeks of misogyny to me.

I am heavily disappointed, and I ask everyone to please understand why bi lesbians are harmful.

I'm disappointed you've missed the point of my post. I was talking about the history of different lesbians and sapphics being excluded and hated in our community through generations. The conversation wasn't about bi lesbians specifically, it was about the butches, transfemmes, Pan/Bi, Aro/Ace, nonbinary, and countless other identities that were or ARE still considered not "valid" members of our community at point or another. I was pointing out how this "Bi Lesbian exclusion" is just a repeat of past mistakes and in the retrospective it is rooted in radfem/terf ideology that claims sapphics have to present and feel a certain way to be accepted. I didn’t say anywhere that being attracted to non-men is evil, I didn’t call anyone a “big mean lesbian”. You’re putting words into my mouth. That entire post was about defending sapphic’s right to attraction and expression.

Lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, non cis women and etc can all be oppressed, harassed, hate crimed, rejected by friends/family and other terrible things for their non heteronormative attraction.

Some people are failing to realize these exclusively “one identity spaces" they feel are being threatened don't actually exist in real life. Sure someone can have like, a "nonbinaries only" discord server or a meet up with friends who are all the the same identity. But a majority of queer spaces in real life? They don't have those rules because theres no way to separate queer identities neatly like that- There isn't a need to. You're going to find bisexuals and pansexuals and nonbinaries and trans people and all sorts of other identities at the same lesbian bar, the same sapphic support group, the same circle of friends.

So what exactly are these "spaces" that every other identity has and lesbians supposedly don't? Maybe ask why bisexuals, pansexuals, etc also being in a sapphic space feels so threatening to some in the first place? They have a right to be there as well. We are a community.

A label can be used and defined as whatever the owner of the label is comfortable with! "Lesbian" has always been an umbrella term. It can be a singular identity or it can describe any sapphic experience or it can do lots of things, labels have always been flexible in this way. Someone using the label differently than another person isn't harmful. It's expression.

[fandomfluffandfuck]

Are you being completely truthful with your bio? You have a somewhat juvenile writing style even down to the ✨word✨ and your writing reference for male arousal is strangely written and a little inaccurate. Your obsession with objectifying and writing porn of real life men with wives and families makes you look like either a really creepy adult, or a kid that doesn’t know any better. Do you think it’s ok for a straight man your age to objectify a female actress in this same way?

Not to mention your pinned is from 2020 so you would have been 16 when you made the account that says “minors do not interact” in all caps

The mentions of collage are interesting as well, what the hell are you majoring in anyway? Did you forget to update your age and this is your last year? Or were you actually running an 18+ account while 16? And honestly I’m assuming you were probably younger.

Your alias is S.

You go by sir and but you use very cliché and juvenile language, “I’m more friendly than I look, I promise 😅” “I’m a dyslexic fanfic writer *existencial sigh*”

it’s got the same vibe as, “he’s standing right behind me isn’t he 😬”

Just don’t lie about this shit when you’re writing porn. You’re going to be prayed on. Just be safe with it and keep it on a private account.

I believe this ask and these following asks come from the same person or from affiliated people because they all were sent in around the same time and are all orbiting the same topics, so I'm looping them together:

"Hey man, how old are you exactly?"

"What r u studying? Writing I assume? But I feel like you’d be qualified to teach the class 😏"

"Are you planning on making an account solely for your art? You’re incredibly skilled"

"Do the names cate and Lillian mean anything to you?"

"Cate?"

If they're not all the same person or a purposeful group of people talking about the same things, then I apologize to the people I've tacked on to discourse, lol.

Shorter asks first:

I'm in my twenties, and I'll explain the vagueness there in a hot second when I get to the longer, opening ask.

I'm actually studying art, not writing, lol. Writing is just a hobby for me. Thanks, regardless! I don't think I'd be very good at teaching, though 😅 My writing process is a mess, and I'm constantly breaking so, so many writing rules, lmao.

Thank you! No, I don't plan on making a separate art account for fandom or for my actual, non-sketch, finished-piece artwork. I mean, I have art accounts, but they're purposefully not attached to my Tumblr because art is a hobby right now, but I'm planning on making it into my profession.

No? Should they?

No? I'm so confused, lmao. Are you assuming you know who I am, and that's the motivation of the pointed questions? Assuming I'm Cate or Lillian? 'Cause I'm not. If they're people/characters related to the Marvel/Seb Stan/Chris Evans, then I feel like I need to warn you that I'm often fandom illiterate, lol. I don't actually watch TV/series/movies regularly, so... I'm oblivious to a lot.

Okay, on to the longer, opening ask that started this saga of asks.

First, I appreciate that you are trying to keep people out of harms way. I do. Yet, aren't there less accusatory ways to go about it? Absolutely, full stop, I do not want minors--no matter if they're 17, so close to 18 or whatever excuse they may make--in the parts of fandom that are not appropriate for them. No.

However, I, personally, don't think accusing someone of being something and talking down to them, picking apart each little thing about their online presence will do anything to anyone who is already engaging in shit that they should not be. Maybe that's just my hot take, though. I can't say I have the answer about how to eliminate minors who shouldn't be around these places on the internet, though. Unfortunately.

'Cause, yup! I'm being truthful.

Often, I am vague on purpose. I do that because, by the nature of what I get up to on the internet living in a society based so deeply in puritanical views, it's easy to have shit used against you in the professional world. But, whether I'm being vague with personal information like my age, name, location, etc. while getting hyperspecific with sexual shit, I'm still honest.

And I don't know if I need to specify this or not, but just in case I do, it says 20s with an s in my pinned post. Plural. As in 20-29, the range of being in my 20s. I'm in my 20s.

Yes, my pinned post is 4 years old at this point, so maybe I sound more juvenile in it because it's been four years since I wrote that. I have edited parts of it, but not everything. Also, yes, I was 18--closer to 19, but still 18, nevertheless--when I started my blog. So. More juvenile then, definitely. Hell, you're allowed to think I still sound juvenile, too. If you want. You're entitled to your own opinion. If you don't like the way I sound, though, just don't read my stuff. That's simple.

And it bleeds into the idea that I sound inaccurate. I am inaccurate sometimes. Definitely. Not everything I write could I replace myself with whatever character or person I'm writing about and feel like it is accurate to how I would feel or respond in that situation. But, the thing is, for me, that's the allure to porn. That's the whole thing. Porn is fantasy. The way I describe shit isn't literal all the time. It's about conveying feelings. It might not be your experience with feelings of arousal. Cool. Great! Differences are good. Feelings aren't objective. Again, if something about my writing makes you feel weird or feels too unrealistic to your experience, you don't have to read it.

As far as the ethics and nonethics of writing about real people, I've discussed that before (one, two, three), so I won't go into that now, but I would be interested to dig into your notion of how my actions may stack up comparatively to a straight man objectifying women.

I would call myself a feminist. I am always trying to learn more about how to be a better, more intersectional feminist. The swapping of me, a cis queer guy, sexualizing/objectifying other men with a cis straight man sexualizing/objectifying women does bring up very strong feelings in me. It does feel distinctly creepy to me. However, I can point directly to the reason why: it feels much more threatening for a man to talk about women like that. Obviously, not every man is terrible and means to threaten sexual violence to women, and women aren't delicate, helpless little things that must be protected at all costs. However, yeah, like you're getting at, it does feel different, and I have to sit with that to parse out why and what I want to do about it.

Interestingly, though, because of my experiences in the parts of the queer community I frequent, I feel relatively desensitized to mlm sexualization. Like, it's just part of it often, so much so that it goes unnoticed to me. Which, I can understand how people then pick up pitchforks and say no!! You can't do that! That's part of the problem! Or, why does everything have to be sexual with you!! But... that, to me, slides into the censoring, no-kink-at-pride type of discussion that I am not so interested in having at this juncture. There need to be spaces where children are welcome. Yes. There also need to be separate spaces where adults are allowed to be open and honest with all sorts of emotions, including the emotion of horny in a way that's safe and sane and consensual.

I will also note, because it feels worthy of mentioning here, that I have boundaries with sexualization. Real life and online life are different. I'm honest in both, but the rules and behavior are different, y'know? There's nuance to be had.

I don't talk outside of Tumblr the same way I do on Tumblr. Real life is very different to fandom etiquette. Which, I acknowledge that a lot of fandom--historically and presently--is women. Not totally, of course, but a good chunk. Women are objectified exhaustively in our society. So, personally, I feel that it is more than fair for them to then turn around and objective men some. Ever since getting into fandom, I've emulated that because it's the culture here. I've picked it up without really realizing it. Does that mean I feel like it's as fair for me, a man, to take up space in a traditionally women-populated area that's often described as a safe space and co-opt the slang? No. It's not really mine to adapt. Perhaps I should look into that deeper or acknowledge more than I do that I stand on borrowed ground.

Amongst that thought, though, is the realization that I don't talk the same offline because when I'm in the fandom space, I feel a little bit of my traditional socialization come undone. I'm a man. I was raised to crush down emotions and be strong and steady. Sure, I'm a 5'6" twink looking motherfucker, but I'm still a man, and still, strong emotions I might show in real life are met with confusion at best.

Strong emotions like anger or even noticeable, perky excitement when in public do not get a great response. Anger, understandably. I'm very aware of that. I'm not an angry guy, I grew up around a lot of angry people, I know it's frightening--especially when men get angry. I don't think I'm particularly threatening when I do get frustrated, but still, the few times I've been visibly upset like that around people in public, I can always feel women particularly shrinking away from me. It's just not acceptable. But, excitement. Even excitement or other positive emotions rouses discomfort from others in public.

If I express strong excitement or happiness to people who aren't my friends, people in public, I get reactions, too. Women tend to look at me strangely, as if there's something weird about me. That changes if I out myself to said women because it's more socially acceptable to be exciteable or positive if you're queer. Now, men brush me off in that situation. As a kid, that was not allowed because, what are you gay? Why? Why are you excited about anything? Pfft. That's for girls.

So, all is all to say, I don't talk the way I do on Tumblr. And perhaps that excitement/obvious horniness/whatever strong emotion that I do express on Tumblr comes across as juvenile or unmasculine to you. Maybe that's what you're picking up on with my apparently juvenile tone? I don't know.

That all sounds like I'm saying, poor me, it's so hard to be a man, feel bad for me, but what I'm doing is trying to explain where I'm coming from, why I express that way, and how it's different from my behavior in real life. You're still allowed to think I'm hypocritical and creepy, like I'm allowed to explain myself and do my own thing.

Again, I was 18 when I made my blog.

As for what I'm studying, I'm working toward an MFA right now. As it states in my pinned post, I'm dyslexic. Part of my journey in higher ed has been learning--trying to learn, at least, oof, it's not always going well--how to go easier on myself and not stress out over not being able to keep up all the time with my peers who aren't dyslexic. I'm trying not to feel dumber and feel like that's a terrible thing. So, I took a lighter class load when I got to college to go my own speed, I don't take summer classes, and then I fucked up shit with my transfer degree. Meaning, I'm a whole year, almost two, behind with the "average" track. That's why it feels like I'm stuck in college purgatory, lmao.

I use S because it relates vaguely to my real name, that's all.

I offer that people can use "sir" to refer to me because I, personally, like power dynamics in sex and my blog is about sex a lot. I don't feel like "daddy" fits me, sure, partly to do with my age, but really, daddy is a mindset, lol, and it strikes me as much more nurturing and romantic mindset/dynamic. I don't feel like that fits me. I like something stricter. I used to think I was a stone top, lol, and while I don't feel exactly like that anymore, I certainly don't feel as kinky-soft as "daddy".

Sure, that's maybe cliche to say. Cool. Personally, it doesn't strike me as juvenile, but clearly, it does to you, so... okay? I don't know what to do about that? It's just how I write.

Also, it's very amusing to me to accuse someone of lying while choosing to remain anonymous and disconnected from your own blog that, hopefully, contains your age/age range within it.

Reiterating: I think it's good that you want to keep minors out of the places they shouldn't be, I do. That's admirable. It's dangerous for the minors that do step foot in 18+ spaces as well as dangerous for well-meaning adults who unknowingly interact with minors masquerading as adults. But you're barking up the wrong tree.

You're welcome to say that writing this whole thing is defensive, clearly juvenile, and proves your point if you like. (Maybe, fine, I am a little offended to be told my smut sounds like a child wrote it because... yikes. So, I'm defending something there.) Still, I was interested in diving into some of the things you brought up 'cause I think about some of that a lot. Especially about my place in fandom as a guy. I try very hard not to be the creepy guy in the corner 😬

[mothbeasts]

thinking about the fabricator again.

this isn't... elaborated on much, in canon, but I'm sure being a public figure in general is very stressful for her. Especially with her ties to Zoraxis. it's a balancing act to keep her two jobs separate...

But in the realm of pure headcanon territory. I do like to think about the other sources of stress related to her being in the public eye.

As a nonbinary lesbian myself, in a place where those things tend to be heavily frowned upon, I like to think about how the fabricator would handle her gender and sexuality in a time where those aspects of herself are less socially acceptable.

Being a woman that the public pays attention to has to be... Bad. Especially when said woman has no husband, or interest in marrying a man in general. I feel like she's always turning down advances, dealing with gossip, etc cetera. There's a certain amount of fear involved in her interactions with others in this regard... She never knows what might happen. What someone might do to her.

She also has to keep her orientation a secret, because that news getting out would be bad for her reputation more likely than not. So long as she doesn't let anyone know she likes women, she'll be fine... It's not like they'd ever find out she's trans, really. She keeps her past a closely guarded secret... nobody save for perhaps Zor knows her name, even.

It's tiring. Having to keep herself palatable.

[mywingsareonwheels]

I was thinking about the whole... what's more progressive debate out of m/m romance representation and actually close and tender (as opposed to buddyish) m&m friendships. And how utterly futile and insulting to the need for more of both a debate it is when we need infinitely more of both and a lot of other things.

Fundamentally, between the lingering after-effects of the Hays Code and the extremist end of Christianity (not that those two are unconnected) and the patriarchy (ditto) and militarism and capitalism... in mainstream Western story media we still struggle to get *any* genuine emotional intimacy that isn't:-

romance between a different-gender couple who are both cishet, and which if it's happy will lead to marriage (but hasn't yet).

marriage between ditto, but only if they haven't been together very long (after they have for a few years they're supposed to bicker all the time).

at an extreme pinch, fond closeness between blood relatives, especially if at least one of them is a woman.

Friendships between men and between women are okay so long as there's a... distancing of rivalry and teasing. If you can imagine one of them tucking the other in or stroking their hair (especially if they're both men) or being utterly and wholly in solidarity with each other (especially if they're both women)... hm, no.

And that's... it. We're still at a point in mainstream western media where anything that deviates from, especially to the extent of serious warmth and trust and confidence and understanding between the characters, that feels at least a little transgressive, especially in e.g. a blockbuster movie. We're still at a point where everything else is under-represented. Less and less so, thank everything, but still.

I'm thinking of some of my favourite relationships in fiction at the moment and how they fuck with those stereotypes and do better things (and always as part of awesome stories, because as always, good rep is important but it should never be treated as everything). :-) This is inevitably a v personal list, I'm not claiming that anything here is The Purest And Least Problematic Thing Ever, and this is very much just a, "this is what's enthusing me right now" thing. :D

yes they're a het couple and both cis, but: Mike and Alison Cooper in Ghosts. They have been married for a few years now, and they actually like each other. They're best friends as well as lovers, and I know that some critics have actually had a problem with this and regard it as unrealistic. [facepalm] I adore so much that they're not a stereotypical sitcom married couple, nothing like. In a quiet way they are utterly defiant and fuck completely with the genre.

Donna Noble & the Doctor in Doctor Who. I mean, do I need to say much more? :D Close, glorious platonic friendship between a woman and... the Doctor. Some of the most beautiful platonic love in any fiction ever and it's so tender and gorgeous and fun. Adore it. <3

Red, White, and Royal Blue is a silly film but omg I adore it and part of it is seeing all of those standard romance beats between two men. And with a lot more true closeness than a lot of het romcoms manage. We're getting more and more of this (we need more between women too, and indeed other queer romances of many and various kinds!!!). <3 <3 <3

yes, they're shit at expressing their love for each other most of the time, but I still stubbornly add: E Morse & Fred Thursday in Endeavour. The fact that they're inhabiting the 1960s-70s and there is no framework for their mutual affection and devotion is of course part of why things get so hard for them both. They don't know what to do with it or where to place each other in their priorities, but the loyalty and the tenderness is there, and some remarkable emotional intimacy at times considering who they both are. We watch and interpret it as father-son or as romantic or as fraternal or as an intense and wonderful (and complicated and difficult) friendship. But it defies easy definition and... and oh goodness well anyone who's been following me for any length of time knows how I can go on about them, apologies. ;-)

the entire Fellowship of the Ring, but especially Frodo and Sam. And whatever my mixed feelings on the PJ films of The Lord of the Rings, my Gods am I endlessly glad and grateful that they retained warmth and intensity and devotion and intimacy. I worry that it wouldn't have been if made now, with a more stereotypical masculinity so much in the ascendant in mainstream film-making (we really are in the midst of a patriarchal/homophobic/transphobic reaction :( ). As with Morse and Thursday, you can absolutely interpret some of the connections there as romantic (and we know that Tolkien was remarkably non-homophobic for a man of his generation and religion), or as platonic. Either way, what matters is that there's serious love there between male characters and that goes right back to the books. Tolkien could be problematic af, but I love him so much for how he writes masculinity and love between men. <3

Heartstopper, not just for Nick/Charlie and Tara/Darcy, but also because of Charlie's friendships with Elle, Isaac, and (especially, actually) Tau.

everything with Found Family, and especially everything with Found Family where there is no easy equivalence to a "nuclear" family to map the characters on to.

Honestly I could go on. Hooray for all of these! But also: we are still in a position where these all feel subversive and make a lot of the more bigoted critics spectacularly uncomfortable (even when there is no actual queer rep). We're still in a position where mainstream film series and some tv shows struggles with anything like this, and/or will sabotage a friendship between men and even an entire character arc because it's got too close and intimate and there's a desperate need to "no homo" everything (*coughs* Steve Rogers *coughs*). We're still in a position where romance between women and any romance involving trans people of any gender is dramatically under-everythinged (but that between cis men is also still not exactly even a fraction of where it should be). We're still in a position where honestly even the representation of romance between cishet characters is most often weirdly distant and lacks real closeness or mutual liking between them (often, let's face it, because the writers struggle to write women as people). I snarked a bit at first about the debate as to which is more important and under-represented between m/m romance and really open and loving m&m friendship, but honestly the main problem with that debate is that dividing up the exact same problem: we aren't going to get more open and loving representations of m&m friendship until the media get less afraid of the relationship being interpreted as romantic whether or not it is, by both fans and haters. (I.e. don't blame the shippers when a production company loses their nerve and trashes a friendship between men so that it's not seen as romantic! Blame homophobia. I mean, to put it on its simplest real-life terms, it's consistently my experience in the UK at least that het male allies are in general vastly more comfortable hugging each other than homophobes are.)

[trlvsn]

tiktok users are fucking killing me im sorry. just saw that one "if _ was a crime" trend with "if being gay was a crime"... you are aware that. it still is. a crime. in a lot of countries. people get the death penalty. you are aware of that right

and i'm sure that if i scrolled a couple of times after that video i would see some guy with one slightly feminine feature and the comments calling him "zesty" and asking him if "his gun is pink" as if that's normal and friendly behavior?? honestly it might be a reach but if someone shouted "gay!" at me in the street i would assume it wasn't an allyship moment, i would assume they meant it as something homophobic. you are ridiculing people for femininity and that's just not cool no matter how trendy the terms and copy-pasted comments are. sigh

[my-traumacore-sideblog]

i feel like there's not enough talk abt safe spaces 4 men getting mocked or invaded by women, like ppl go off constantly abt "men invading safe spaces 4 women" and how "women need safe spaces from men" but like i never c any1 wanna talk abt women who r not a part of the queer community invading queer only spaces and queer men only spaces and basically acting like queer men only safe spaces should double as safe spaces 4 them bc they c queer men (especially gay men) as a safe space 4 them bc of the assumption that none of us r gonna flirt w them

apart from the obvious bisexual erasure tho there's something they also usually fail 2 consider, a lot of queer men don't feel safe around women who r not also queer bc of the power in society that non queer women hold over queer men

just 2 b clear, im not talking abt pre transition transmascs or transmascs who simply don't want 2 medically transition, im also not talking abt queer women that ppl often 4get r part of the queer community like ace or aro women, im not talking abt heterosexual transfems im talking specifically abt women who do not identify as queer in any way who go into places that r specificly meant 4 queer men who don't feel safe around women 2 hang out in a safe environment w/ other queer men bc "this way they dont hav 2 worry abt guys flirting w them" and they just expect all of the queer guys 2 let this happen and b like "omg yas queen we r honoured that u would trust us lowly fags w ur safety like this" like gurl no, u r coming into a space that is meant 2 b a safe space 4 us away from u and acting like we should b proud or smth 4 making room 4 u, u realise we only do that bc we feel forced into doing so right? bc if we don't then u'll accuse us of being misogynists or u'll try 2 act like us not letting u into our safe space means u'll 100% get assulted and that that's more important than u possibly harassing us or our friends or assulting us or our friends or trying 2 make us or our friends completely reliant on u so u can turn us into ur new accessory

tbh this is 1 of the reasons i hate the phrase "the girls and the gays" ppl rly need 2 stop lumping us 2gether bc all it does is make it easier 4 women who r not queer 2 abuse us, queer men r not women, women who r not queer r not inherently our allies just by being women, he's not ur "bestie" he's afraid of u, he's afraid that if he doesn't play the part of being ur new accessory then u'll start saying some shit abt how "all gay men r predators anyway" u hav more power than u want 2 admit but u take no responsibility, if ur rly gonna stand there and say that "all men r trash until no men r trash" and justify it by "oh but men just hav more power in society than women do" then mayb u should start acknowledging the power u hav over others in society and start realising that manipulating queer men isn't the "girl boss" move u think it is, being a non queer woman doesn't make u welcome in queer men spaces it just means we feel pressured into pretending 2 b nice 2 u

[mrssimply]

In your fic, The Leash and your version of Santino, he was abused by his father both mentally and physically and I find that very interesting bc I also headcanon that he had a bad relationship with his father and I think most of the fandom thinks that way too. So, do you wanna share some more about how and what else his father did to him? And how little Santi handled all that? :<

Oh my, please get ready for another Ted Talk!

First, yes, I think we're all kinda sharing this HC that he's been abused as a child. To me personally, it's because I was looking for a reason for him to be that vicious and ambitious, to the point of killing his own sister. I have a pretty good relationship with my own sister, I just can't conceive a world where I would want to kill her. I know some people have really bad relationship with their sibblings, but still, I needed to... understand why he does that, how they turned on each other (or he turned on Gianna, she doesn't seem to have such a hatred for her little brother, which I find even more tragic). There are also the fact that despite being selfish, petty and mean, there are hints of someone maybe more likeable underneath. His relationship with Ares is his saving grace, but there is also the fact that despite the Marker, he still helped John when no one else took the risk, thinking he would never even be able to call the favor. Also the fact he gets so nervous, and basically breaks down into a frightenned child when he puts the bounty on John's head and yet, when he'd faced with the man himself at his coronation, they have this short but very intense stare down and he's not moving an inch until John opens fire. So basically, he's not courageous... until he has to face his fears. He's vicious, but capable of giving help with seemingly very little chance of return on the favor, and there is something in him that calls for loyalty. And his sister still likes him, even if he wants (needs?) to kill her.

ANYWAY, that was not the point. The point was: why do I have this HC he was abused? Because I needed to make sense of all this, and also because it makes him more likable. Yes. I can accept how vicious he is if it's a consequence of his own vicious upbringing, and that he's not really like that underneath (and yes, The Leash, The Rubicon, and now The Burning of Rome are all about that).

Now, I have to recognise this mecanism inside me that needed to explain his violence by the violence done to him. It's a comon trait in abusers, that doesn't excuse them, it just explains (in part) how they became abusers themselves. I'm optimistic by nature, I don't think people are born mean, though some might argue there is a propension to violence and unkindness in every one of us at birth. Upbringing and life experiences will propably help tip the balance one way or another. So back to Santino, what tipped the balance?

It's not just his father, it's the circumstances around him: in my fic, his father isn't abusive with him until his mother kills herself. So it's not just a potentially abusive father, it's also a depressive mother. It's being born into the High Table, and the expectations that comes with it, and the violence inherent to this world (which John acknowledges, and wants to leave because it forced him into violence when he aspired for peace). I think Santino was also very lonely, in the sense that he had no one he could go to when he was scared or hurt (Gianna probably did that for a while, but that didn't last). The age gap with Gianna meant she was far ahead (and also knew a world where their mother existed), and a woman, so the expectations probably weren't the same. He was expected to inherit the seat, and that would have come with pressure she probably experienced differently.

In a way, what made him snap was that I think he sacrificed a lot (in my fic, he sacrificed John, of course) and it didn't even pay off. His whole environement told him "if you do this, if you're like this, you get this nice reward" and in the end it didn't happen, so the sacrifices became meaningless and the violence that came with it lost its sense (if he found sense in it in the first place).

I never thought about what specifically his father did to him beyond what I wrote in the fic. I liked the idea it wasn't exactly events, or beatings, but the crushing weight of the world he was born into that forced him to viciousness.

I do mention another episode later in the Burning of Rome (an update is comming soon-ish xD), and If I think about it for a little bit the first things that comes to miy mind is that all the blows, the scars and the bruises had to be hidden: D'Antonio Senior probably tried to avoid his son's face when he beat him, or injuries so serious they would require a trip to the hospital (with one or two exceptions, of course). But he was probably the kind that would love to cut his son, or burn his cigarettes on him. If Santino had the misfortune of caring for something, this thing would be broken, or taken away as soon as his father identified it. He would be forced to do things he didn't like (football, in my mind, he hates it xD). Tears were, of course, absolutely forbidden (boys don't cry, as you know), so each time it happened, he would get punished, either physically or mentally. His father would be the kind to let him go hungry for days, or to close the doors and order the staff to keep him out of the house even if it rained (especially if it rained). But the worse thing would be, of course, the idea that if Santino behaved, he would stop abusing him. His father would use that, constantly remind Santino that it's his fault for forcing him to be that hard with him, if only he was just better, cleverer, and less of a pussy, he wouldn't have to do all that to him, it saddens him to have to come to such measures etc etc. Because of course there would be slurs, generally of the homophobic kind. I always kinda imagined his father always knew, and tried to "cure" him of that.

Lastly, how he reacted to that? I HC Santino as fiercely intelligent, and emotionally sensitive (even if he doesn't know what to do with that and what he feels). So I think he always knew his father would never name him as his heir, would never be proud of him, or love him. He abandonned the idea of trying to be the ideal son really early, and instead voluntarily provoked his father, voluntarily pushed him. It was a two edged sword: on one hand, it gave him the illusion of control (he was abused on his terms, since he instigated it) but on the other hand, it completed the circle that there really was something wrong with him, for rebelling instead of obeying, and that his father was right about him.

He always looked for things that would make his father mad, and sleeping with John in my fic is probably in part to that effect, at least at first.

Santino's fucked up coping mecanisms are just absolutely lovely to explore as an author (tortuing my favorite dolls is a long term occupation for me xD).

His way of dealing with the situation led him to the sexual practices he has with John, based on control and pain (though, as you might have seen, in my fic it's shifting as they evolve, the dynamic slowly getting more balanced, with Santino opening to being taken care of instead of being perpetually in control - mirroring John's capacity to take care, instead of needing to submit to find his place in the world).

Ok, ok, I'll stop there before this becomes an essay properly.

Once agian, I want to thank you for all those questions that are not only super interesting to explore, but also giving me an opportunity to talk about my fics, and there are no greater motivator to write more than this.

Thank you very, very much!

[oddrox]

Not to be the hot take on main but if you 'headcanon' the companions of bg3 as anything other than the canon pansexual that they have been stated to be that's a sign of some internalized homo/bi/panphobia that you gotta address with yourself gender neutral baby girl.

You can't "act" gay or straight or bi or ace or any sexuality beyond just being those things and being yourself. You just are those things and to insist someone adheres too much to a stereotype of a different sexuality to be what they identify as is *icky behavior.*

Mkay that's all.

[quinnick]

So I have been thinking about this post for a minute and finally got the motivation to make something about it. 

All of us Bylers know the arguments from non-Bylers that is prevalent within the discourse. The idea that Byler can’t happen not because of in canon reasons but because of real world politics. Things like “Byler can’t happen because of homophobia in the 80s” or “they would never have more then two happy queer people in a main stream show”. 

1. Let’s ignore the fact that Stranger Things was probably never meant to be a main stream show. It was one of Netflix's first big breaks. It was not made by something like Disney and it’s aesthetics are focused on horror elements. Horror that is based on a subculture from the 80s. DnD is not really main stream and while 80s nostalgia is a huge thing, nerd culture in the 80s isn’t. Hope this all makes sense

2. Gay and trans people existed and were able to find happiness in the 80s. Don’t get me wrong, it was tough and still is tough to be visibly queer in society but that doesn’t mean queer people can not find happiness in their life. They can form loving relationships that last a life time. Just because it is hard does not mean it is impossible 

Now that I have that out of the way, I want to focus on specifically the general idea of both of these arguments. 

The thesis of any argument against Byler in these veins is “Marginalized communities, specifically queer people, do not get to have any form of escapism and all media involving them must be based in a reality I, a non-marginalized person, has created” 

Long thesis I know, but it’s the root of this. These people who have never experienced being queer or are queer but only understand the pain of being queer, have decided what is acceptable queer rep and what queer people are allowed to experience joy in. I have talked about this before in short just about Queer people who insist Byler would be better unrequited because it is “realistic” but this is a much bigger issue within society. 

Will Byers should and can be warmly accepted and loved by every character in Stranger Things. Will Byers can get the boy and be in a long loving relationship. Will Byers should and can be out and proud in the 80s. Queer people deserve to see that queer people can be loved, proud, and have happy endings.

Will Byers does not deserve to suffer heartbreak, trauma, and hate because he is queer and that would be “realistic”

Queer people deserve to watch media and experience joy they may not get to experience. Fuck anyone who says other wise.

It is realistic in my life to experience hate, heartbreak, and to be turned away by my family. I do not need to turn on the TV and see the media I enjoy showing that I deserve that. That I should have seen that coming. That even in a time line where there are monsters, another world, and magical powers, I am the weird one still.

So yeah, Queer people deserve to see that the world can accept them. That there are happy endings for them. That they can be heroes even in times when it would be difficult.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk <3 And don’t let anyone make you feel unlovable or like a mistake. Drink some water and take a nap. Have a good night/day/afternoon

[egharcourt]

Hot take for queer christians or affirming christian allies, but focusing on picking apart mistranslations in the clobber verses as the means to address homophobia, transphobia, or queerphobia in the church community is literally not gonna take us anywhere further. Okay, now we've disproved that Lev 18:22 doesn't imply whatever the English translation means. Oh and Deut 22:5 applies to a certain context. And then what. Do we just acquiesce in the fact that, after providing a rebuttal to some points raised by exclusionists, we still gotta sit in this unwelcoming and often spiritually stifling environment that they created.

I think what's fundamentally imperative is understanding what the core tenets of the Christian religion stand for (aka the Great Commandment). The second commandment, "love your neighbor as yourself" already makes it clear that there's no room for prejudice and bigotry. Bring up the verses and stories where the laws change to empower women, sexual minorities and outsiders in social systems that initially deny their rights (the daughters of Zelophehad, Isaiah 56:3-6, Acts 10:9-16). Stories about people who were underdogs, or from such communities, praised, promoted, and occupying an important position in the narrative.

The Bible's a big book and any argument can be extracted out of it to befit one's agenda. With so much hateful and intolerant rhetoric being thrown around, it's way better to highlight the passages that reaffirm marginalized people are blessed and cherished and deserve a place in faith, ESPECIALLY for vulnerable queer folk within the religious community that are told they can't belong. That's all I'm saying.