#I just read Gotham war

[tim-drake-scholar]

Sorry but Tim referring to Bruce as “dad” kills me bc I think he’s like 18/19 here so he’s only been legally adopted for a couple years or so? They really are all siblings and they really are a family! I love that Damian looks so confused about physical affection!!

[rockingthegraveyard]

Violence happens to every day people, Bruce! Violence finds people who aren't looking for it every god damn day! Normal people die because the world is filled with dangerous people. You just took away for son's ability to defend himself against all of it.

You have a horribly traumatized son! Adrenaline doesn't just hit you in a dangerous situations, it can hit you because of past dangerous situations as well and Jason's had an entire life time of dangerous to haunt him.

He can't even do the non-dangerous activity of trying to leave! Because you just made the world a lot more dangerous for him which triggers adrenaline which triggers this frozen response in him!

On top of all of that...

JASON IS SUPER FLIPPANT WITH HIS IDENTITY!! A LOT OF BAD PEOPLE KNOW HIS FACE!

I don't think a change in identity is enough for some of their enemies who want to track down a bat who can't fucking defend himself!!

[fandom-hoard]

Okay am I just dumb or am I missing the logic in this?

Jason Todd was a homeless street kid, then went straight into fighting crime, then went into being trained in combat by the league of assassins, then went back to gotham to commit and fight crime.

Yes, I understand the Jason's adrenaline would inevitably spike at some point if he kept with his current lifestyle. But I can also see him going through an entire night on the street without doing more than working up a light sweat.

Like, am I being dumb right now? Or am I right in thinking that a character who has felt like they were in danger since their age was a single digit, is more likely to have an adrenaline spike when they, say, have a first date, than they would in physical combat?

Even with the "Zur Logic" going on here, how does this make sense? Bruce says Jason can go have a "normal life" and "fall in love". Um, frickin how? This is a character who has been literally raised in physical danger and turmoil. He's either going to be launched into panic attacks all the time because he's hyper-aware of potential threats, or because he's out of his depth with what "normal life" actually entails.

Sorry, I'm just super confused. How is this supposed to force him to have a normal life? Because, to me, this seems like it eliminates the possibility of a normal life. Jason can't pursue relationships, and God-forbid he actually try to have sex, because that inevitably ends in panic attacks. And try to have a family? No fuckin' way. Even if he managed to impregnate someone or adopt, the adrenaline that spikes through you every time your toddler tumbles would do the poor man in. Whereas he could do low-level patrols, or take on an Oracle/Alfred like role, with far, far fewer panic attacks.

Sorry, I'm just so confused. How does this make sense from a Bruce standpoint? Or a Zur standpoint? Hell, from a DC standpoint?

[jennrypan]

"Read the comics! Read the comics"

..give me actual good comic recs with Dick and Jason (I don't care about anyone else fr.)

And when I mean GOOD. I mean good storyline where they aren't being beat the fuck up and they get to shine in their talents and actually have fun moments with the people in the comic.

[rajschu]

i want gotham war to end with jason leaving the whole batfam behind, starting anew in a tiny town in england, working in a cozy bookshop and having the best therapist ever.

hes a popular character and writers think we want him and batman fighting at all times because it makes him the edgy black sheep of the family but this plot is so fucking tiring and overdone and there is only so much trauma a person can take.

[canigohomenoow]

i hate all you bitches that were involved in the making of Gotham War specifically Batman #138

I HOPE YOU SUFFER LIKE I HAVE

[shahrwrites]

I will never ever stop calling out Bruce for the abusive hypocrite that he is and here’s one of the many instances why:

**WARNING: the following contains spoilers for events Identity Crisis and Gotham War.**

Also, this is gonna be a lengthy read because I'm gonna elaborate on Identity Crisis a little first, so grab a snack, I guess? lol

A couple of days ago, I finished reading Identity Crisis, and a recent visit to twitter revealed to me that... it's not as well received as I had thought?? I mean, sure, it had its flaws, but most of the arguments I have read about it arises from a lack of a sufficient grip on the essence of the story.

One such argument being that "Jean only wanted to scare Sue, yet she brought a flame thrower with her." So did everyone collectively forget that she was institutionalized at the end of the story? Not to mention that she had a history of mental instability already, (Or so I've read about her) meaning she was mentally ill. She was very definitely lying through her teeth saying that she didn't mean to kill Sue.

Another was the leaguers being morally compromised because, 1) they altered Dr. Light's brain after he threatened to repeat everything he did to Sue and worse to their wives and family, and 2) Because they wiped away memories of a certain leaguer and kept what they did to Dr. Light a secret?

I don't know about you, but to me, that only shows that for the exception of one literal alien, they're all human at their core. They have flaws, they have fears, and they're not above making mistakes. For me, it painted what would be a bunch of one dimensional characters, in a more complex picture.

On another note, I understand that there may have been continuity errors, but honestly, what comic run doesn't have them? It's just become a feature of the comics over the years and given them a flexibility to explore new stories, ideas and themes.

Now, if Deathstroke was buffed up from fighting kids to one-man-up the League, if Firestorm died a little too randomly, you'll just have to excuse the poor writing in those respectives. This happens to the best of stories. At age ten, I found such ridiculous plot holes in Harry Potter of all stories it was seriously embarrassing.

Moving on,

Why did reading this comic specifically strike a nerve in me about Bruce and Jason in respect to the events of Gotham War? Because after what Dr. Light did to Sue and threatening the leaguers to do the same to their families, too, they made the choice to jumble his brains a little so as to stop such tragedy to ever befall again. Of course, Bruce wasn't there for the voting, but then he comes back when they're in the middle of transforming Light's personality. And this is what ensues:

* Identity crisis (2016)

Say what you wanna say, it was more about Batman's authority than anything else or whatever. But don't you think Bruce would have stopped it and lashed out, either way? Well, I do. Because so many times, he's shown to be more sympathetic to monstrous criminals than to a boy he raised.

* Batman – Catwoman – The Gotham War – Red Hood 002 (2023)

* Batman (2016) #138

I think you've all had enough of reading about how Bruce took away Jason's autonomy in the name of giving him a normal life when he can't even be a normal human being anymore, all without an ounce of regret, so I won't go there.

[welcometogrouchland]

The fact that no one across all of DC fandom (as far as I can tell) has mined the beautiful comedic potential that is the night and day difference between Tim and Damians current canonical love interests

[theorderofthetriad]

i have one (1) joke about batman and i will overuse it to death

[magenta-somethings]

(nightwing (2016), issue #100 (Jan, 2023))

(batman (2016), issue #138 (Oct, 2023)) catching up on modern batfamily comics and uh. reading these two issues within like a day of each other was a little wild ngl.

[fahbev]

Reading comics b like:

Is it just me or did that not make any sense?

[rockingthegraveyard]

At this point, if I learn that Bruce and Jason are going to interact in a comic, I just assume it's going to go poorly for Jason.

I like the concept of Jason bring the worst out in Bruce and it should be compelling especially since Jason is the kind of character that really gets Bruce to that edge because he knows every button to push to get him there.

And I guess you can argue that how Bruce often reacts to Jason could be his worst. But I don't really want a Bruce where his worst is no holds barred when it comes to Jason.

When Jason gives him no choice but to fight him then Bruce has no choice but to fight him. When he first came back to Gotham is a good example of it. But there are time when Jason's just trying to talk to Bruce. To explain or justify whatever action he's done be it a mistake or that he believes he was in the right, doesn't matter. Bruce meets him with violence.

It's like Bruce thinks Jason can't understand any point outside of one made through physical actions. Like the only way to get through to Jason is to physically beat it into him. And it's just not the Bruce I want out of the situation.

I want a dad who isn't perfect who tries and fucks up, sometimes in a major way, but who in the end doesn't want to hurt his kids in any manner. Especially wouldn't stoop so low as to basically experiment on them. What the fuck?!??

I want a Bruce that loves Jason despite all the bad blood but he doesn't. Jason gets shoved in there when Bruce mentions his family here and there but it feels so hollow at this point.

Bruce doesn't love Jason, he just thinks Jason is his responsibility and his problem to rectify.

[starlooove]

No bc fuck tim but it really really bothers me how people ignore his growth like he used to be an asshole and I’ll give tim Stans one thing: now he’s so so so stale but what I disagree with is that this staleness is bc nobody likes him like it’s in fact the exact opposite where everyone likes him so much they dont want to do anything. Even when it’s him surface level challenging Bruce it’s when everyone else is doing it too; but he’s still the backbone of the fam! Etc. and it’s so irritating bc him gaining more compassion and empathy even for people he doesn’t fw is so fun to watch and that’s why the captain boomerang thing was so out of character! (Not in a from the author way but in a tim wouldn’t do that and he and Bruce both knew it which is why it went down like it did. Same way dick killing joker was ooc; not in fanon sense but in a he would hate himself forever for this sense) and speaking of that it’s such an interesting mirror to Bruce who genuinely believes that everyone can grow vs Tim’s it doesn’t matter if they grow it’s not my decision to make like it’s the same but it’s not AND WITH CASS’ IT DOESNT MATTER IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO GROW I WONT DO IT! like ugh. And anyways even when people acknowledge it they boil it down to “Janet and Jack taught him that the capitalist pigs that they are” like no. This is who tim was. Tim was the kind of guy who’d blame a dead kid for dying. That’s ok. Also Janet and Jack? Please reread anything involving them that’s not a fic like Jack had anger issues and they were both aloof at worst like relax.

[i-dont-r3member]

I’ve realized part of why I hat Gotham war so much. It’s LITERALLY A FANFIC UNDER THE BAD DAD BRUCE TAG. LIKE I STG I CANT EVEN BELIEVE THAT THEY FUMBLED HIS CHARACTER SO BAD I WAS LITERALLY JUST SITTING HERE LIKE “ugh if I wanted this shit I’d just go to ao3” and DING! Obviously everyone and their mother knows he’s out of character but there’s a specific flavor of out of character bad dad Bruce that I see a LOT in fics (and other fan works but mostly fics) and Gotham war Bruce is totally it wtf idk how to describe it but its there

[whalehouse1]

I do love the fact that it seems without exception, no matter a reader’s view on Babs, it’s that DC treats her awfully and that Oracle>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Batgirl.

[thenonbinarydetective]

I said this on both Twitter and TikTok and I wasn't gonna say it here, but fuck it

Is anyone else getting some real "boy who cried wolf" vibes from WFA stans rn?

I'm sorry but ever since that webtoon came out people have cried "I need WFA to heal me!!" "I'm so glad I read WFA!!!!" every single time something remotely dramatic or angsty or just kind of bad happens to a Batfamily member

And now with Gotham War I just feel like rolling my eyes even though it's undeniably shit and bad things happened because people have cried that so often it just lost all meaning