#Ml fanon salt

[artistzjay]

You know what I find really interesting, annoying, and frustrating all at the same time?

How people dumb down characters to make the other characters look good.

Or when they take away all of the bad traits from one character to make that character liked but amplify the other party’s bad qualities or add bad qualities that doesn’t exist.

As in basically making them OCs.

Like how they make a characters in Miraculous Ladybug worse than what they are and how they make Marinette the most amazing person on earth when she literally broke into Adrien’s house multiple times and stalked him on multiple occasions.

Yet the fandom is creating such fiction that will reconstruct the entirety of the show, especially the salt fanfiction, making the class to be such bullies because of Lila, like making Alya some kind of angry, irrational dog or Adrien some kind of really creepy dude, when, in reality, Marinette, actually the creep all because of the chameleon episode.

Is Alya not the best of friends? Yes.

Was Adrien’s advice to Marinette stupid? In my opinion, yes.

Did they make the characters dumb (dumber than usual) in chameleon? Yes.

Marinette is a kid but her classmates around e also children and her crimes are much bigger than their in the show and the fanfic is just making it seem like her crimes are not existent.

Or in DC fanfiction where they make characters like the Green Lantern or The Flash or Superman incredibly dumb or incredibly incompetence for the Bats.

Then, in reality, Hal graduated top of his class and has (what I believe are) a aviation degree and engineering degree, working on extremely complex projects of aircraft, Barry is a forensic chemist and literally works on crime scenes, or Clark who is literally a reporter who won two Pulitzers awards, works at one of the best newspapers in the industry/world, and does amazing work on his stories

And all of them have use their intelligence to defeat their enemies bigger than themselves, but writers just throw it all away to make them complete blundering idiots or just straight up a-holes for Batman and his family.

Just complete disregard for the characters quality in who they are and what they stand for.

[i-like-anything-water]

free my girl she's being written against her true canon look at me bbgirl this isn't you

[jeankirsteind]

All of Fanon!Chloe suddenly were gathering in the one place until some guys who looks familiar to them come into the place. At first, they didn’t know who he is until one of them are remembered him.

Arctique!Chloe: “So this is the guy who treated us as an irredeemable monster, huh?”

Medusa!Chloe: “Yep, an asshole who giving redemption to the whole grown ass adults who treated and manipulated us.”

Thomas astruc: “Hey guys take it easy, I’m just kidding and didn’t mean to hurt you. Isn’t you love to make Marinette and the others to suffer….”

A punch comes to his nuts who apparently Anatis!Chloe in the Valkyrie form who did that later followed by Chloe who wields Snake Miraculous to pull his beard which makes him kneeling on the ground. Later, three of them are surrounded that man and shows their cynical towards him.

Valkyrie!Chloe: “You can still talk guffaws like that in front of us and accusing us to make your virtual daughter to suffer.”

Medusa!Chloe: “I heard this big mouth labeled us as an anomaly just because we don’t same like his punching bag.”

Arctique!Chloe: “Tsk, let’s give this scumbag what he deserves.”

Thomas astruc: “Guys, please I’m sorry and I…promise…to give my creation the truly redemption in the next story…”

Valkyrie!Chloe: “Nice try, Tommy. Your promise isn’t matter anymore for all of us.”

The attack keeps coming to Thomas even they didn’t give any chance for him to defend himself. Not far from there. Canon!Chloe who’s seen that didn’t expect watching herself from another universe who wields Miraculous giving some justice for everything Thomas gave to her. Even though, she feels this is will not restore what has been passed.

MQ Rewrite!Chloe: “I know this is won’t change anything for you. Hopefully, he won’t hurt you any further after what you've been through lately.”

Canon!Chloe: Am I will become holder like you in the future?

MQ Rewrite!Chloe: “I really hope like that but after what you have been through, it’s better for you to stay away for a while because I’m afraid they’re just using you as the object to preaching you with some nonsense toxic positivity from Ladybug and your sister.”

Note: These chloe are from my favorite fics that I’ve read on AO3. Even though, they aren’t really like that in their fics and I used them as a plot device in this short fic. The last one was from my fic that still on going 😆✌️

[gameguy20100]

As somebody who's seen lukloe content, your hunch is correct. Most fans (not every one) have an expectation of Luka to be the one who makes Chloe see the wrong of her actions. He's basically a glorified therapist and babysitter for her. Chloe too is not like her canon self. Most of the time she's a good person with a harsh exterior.

But the worse part is when they trash on Marinette and Adrien. Some Lukloe fics have Marinette be a terrible girlfriend to Luka and Chloe acts like a rescuer.

Well, that's just stupid. And slightly racist.

Gotta protect the white boy from the big bad Chinese girl and have him save the white bully with his goodness. Give me a break!

"Good person with a harsh exterior" So fanon Chloe is just a less interesting, white washed Kagami. Wonderful. 🙄

[mystic-myrtille]

Not me checking out the WMG pages of Miraculous to see theories and predictions that are probably more interesting than what actually happened in canon

Oooh the theories and predictions were so much fun back in the days before we slowly had to accept the fact that the show executes every story line it introduced so so badly that almost everyone is unsatisfied😭 especially after I read the show bible and some of the leaked scripts … it‘s baffling how underwhelming it is

One of my fav theory back then was probably how Mayura was the actual evil mastermind behind everything and just generally the lore behind Fu and how the miraculous got lost and all that. Honorable mention to the „Luka is actually evil“ theory, not because I believed it though, I just thought it was funny when people said how they don‘t trust him and how he‘s gotta have ulterior motives. The show is way to obvious to do that😂 and somehow we ended up with Marinette unlocking a new trauma, Adrien not getting to know literally anything and Lila being the ultimate evil with her mom army that‘ll take over the world

[pens-ml-polls]

What this poll is: A place for you to share why it is, your favorite lovesquare ship is your favorite! To share what exactly about that particular drew you to it (feel free to include in tags what your favorite ship is if you'd like)

What this poll isn't: a place for you to salt on the ships you don't like, or talk about why your favorite is better than others. Please and thank you! 😊

[flightfoot]

The word "fanon" doesn't mean a lot to me. Fandoms are big and diverse. No one has the full picture.

But YOU are the exception. You seam to know every aspect of the MLB fandom. Or at least most of it.

So when you reblog a post about disliking a fanon Verizon of a character I noticed.

Do you want to elaborate on that?

Honestly I was mostly thinking about Chloe Bourgeois. I was gonna elaborate in the tags, but well... honestly, even in this case, it's not really the fanon version of CHLOE that's the problem. Which is why I didn't elaborate on it at the time, because it didn't totally fit.

Thing is, I do like Chloe, and I especially like versions of Chloe that follow off of the earlier seasons of ML, when it looked like there was going to be more to her, when there are hints of her having these insecurities because of her awful parents and just wanting to be recognized. With her being a mean bully, but beneath all of that being deeply hurt and trying to fill in the holes left behind by her parents' neglect or disdain. With her desperately trying to earn Ladybug's approval, approval that she couldn't get from her own mother. With her not thinking much of most other people, but going far to help the few people she cares about. So stories where she's still recognizably herself and still can function as a classic mean girl bully if the story calls for it, but with more to her, where she's treated as a person beneath it all still.

I'm not so fond of stories just giving her a straight-up personality replacement, where she's Chloe in-name-only, and she turns into a nice person off-screen with little explanation. I don't hate it, but it also doesn't feel like Chloe, and takes away what could be a really interesting character development arc. It's okay, but not my jam.

The stories I hate are the ones that do either of these types of things (especially the second one where she just gets a straight-up personality replacement) and then the other, canonically nicer kids are made worse, with Chloe and Alya basically swapping personalities. Everyone knows how much I hate Alya, Adrien, and the rest of the class being bashed, and Chloe and Alya having swapped roles just showcases the intense double standards of the writer, and is incredibly frustrating for me since it makes me leery of Good!Chloe and makes me want to vent about people making Chloe into a nicer person when that's not actually my central problem with the trope. So I have to try and take great pains to convey that I like Chloe being good, but doing it at other characters' expense, especially with how Alya in particular ends up getting targeted in these cases, is not cool.

I still remember when I briefly filtered out "Chloe Bourgeois Redemption" on AO3 because of a fic that started demonizing Alya out of nowhere by making her be mean to Chloe, and that was the only tag the fic had at the time that was even remotely associated with salt. I took out that filter soon afterwards because I do really like fics that redeem her, but dammit, BECAUSE of how those good and redeemed versions of Chloe are used, I'm often leery when I see her treated too positively and it sucks to have that knee-jerk reaction.

[927roses-and-stuff]

So I stumbled into the pit that is ML salt for the first time in a while and @geekgirles post about Lila's character assassination made me realize something:

Zoé isn't just a character full of Chloe's potentially good traits, she's also who fans wished Lila was all the way back in seasons 1-2 (and maybe still? idk).

Let's take a look at who Zoé is as a character:

New girl from another country with connections who acts differently around other people and exaggerates aspects of her life for attention and friendship. She wants attention and friends because her mom is neglectful (and possibly worse), and isn't around enough to give her the attention she needed and craved growing up. She has a potential to be a Miraculous hero and possibly has romantic tension with Marinette.

...Is that literally not who fanon!Lila was back when Volpina first aired and everyone was talking about her? Like quite literally, the only difference is that Lila hates Ladybug and likes Marinette whereas Zoé has no reason to hate Ladybug. (Also I'm not sure if Lila's mom was ever portrayed to be worse than neglectful).

Yes, now canon and fanon versions of Lila are demons from hell who need to have consequences for lies and wrongdoings but Lila's potential became the basis for Zoé's character, and any character growth and development for Lila went out the window and now she has 3 moms who presumably don't know about this triple life, I guess???

I mean, in the end, they ended up both being bland and I can't even get excited for fics where Lila faces consequences because she's an anonaly who doesn't matter in canon, and Zoé is essentially more of a prop than character. But still, they really took a look at what fans wanted, plucked the ideas with potential and gave them to a new character that didn't need to exist.

[yeet-noir]

I saw a terrible opinion and needed to dump it somewhere to ease my mind (feel free to delete this lmaoo), but someone said that Lukanette and GabeNath were the only good ships in ML while every other canon ship was either underdeveloped or toxic, and I feel bad for whatever weird version of the show they mustve been watching :)

People are entitled to their own opinions even when they are so wrong haha and wow that is just so wrong. I hope that person at least tagged their salt because that is what annoys me when coming across it and they purposely mistag it so more people have to endure it.

At this point if you are watching the show 5 seasons in and think the love square has not developed or is toxic then why are they watching it, that is what like 75% of the show is about? Especially since L/ukanette is definitely not a developed ship in my opinion because nothing came from it other than Marinette realizing how in love with Adrien she is. And it's great people enjoy L/ukanette and love it more power to them! But some people truly rely on the fanon interpretation of the ship and start to believe that is the reality and just trash the love square like it will change anything.

I hope the vent helps anon and try blacklisting ml salt if you haven't hopefully that limits the bad opinions you come across!

[miraculousalt]

The way Marinette fans or jus general ml fans really will use feminist movements like #metoo or the uprising of female abuse victims speaking up against misogynistic prejudice they face an suffer under to explain why Marinette has every right to reject Chat Noir the way she does is all really great an progressive unril the very same people will 80% of the time then turn round an honest to God explain or even DEMAND that Marinette doesn NEED to stop hitting Adrien, tying him up or otherwise physically restrain or use him and doesn't NEED to ask for consent in anything including KISSING or other sexual activities (you people aren't even attempting to hold Marinette to somewhat of the same healthy standards you make sure Adrien never EVER gets to break, under no circumstances) - even when they are DEPICTED IN A LOVING Relationship - because "its nothing serious.", "she isn't actually hurting him", "he deserved it he annoyed her!" and "that's slapstick comedy, it's FUNNY" is outright one of the most disgusting double standards this fandom glorifies into all heavens.

The way people will show ZERO self-awareness of what they're doin and excusing here an that this is EXACTLY how our real society treats (domestic) violence against men by women would be almost hilarious hypocrisy to point out if it wasn actually as downright depressing as it truly is.

Don't bring feminist movements into the conversation regarding Chats behavior towards Ladybug when you straight up support the characterisation of Marinette Ladybug bein seemingly incapable of NOT physically violating her boyfriend/husband/partner who has suffered under excessive abuse for all his life the moment she sees him transformed (or evn worse as CIVILIANS). Because therefore his "protective suit" can be used to all max as justification as for why Marinette apparently isn being abusive or treatin him badly, including taking advantage of him and his non existent boundaries thanks to his abusive home and the established Ladynoir dynamic that sometimes hardly let's Chat be more than Ladybugs tool to use so she can look cool and strong.

Don't bring up feminist movements when yall think the appropriate way for Adrien to react when he made Marinette angry is submitting and cowering in fear bc you somehow have convinced yourself that boys and men (even the ones, or ESPECIALLY the ones, you are in a romantic relationship with) getting scared of you when you're in a bad mood is you being EMPOWERED instead of you actively refusing to stop being outright abusive.

Canon Marinette is a flawed person but in the end of the day that still remains in at least some sort of limitations to not cross every line, but FANON Marinette Ladybug? That's so fucking often a glorified domestic abuser yall romanticize in a relationship with an abuse victim. But sure. That's alright for you, cuz yall don't truly believe that women can be abusers of people they love once you LIKE them as "strong, empowered women". And men can't truly be abused by women bc they just "respectfully drink respect women juice" in each an every conflict they have cuz men NOT havin to follow a women's every dominatin lead or dare to even expect of HER to do better and stand accountable for her hurtful behavior n be TRUTHFUL is toxic for you people.

I feel so fucking sorry for every male domestic abuse victim of their female abuser, who had to endure their pain an suffering getting invalidated, spit on and even JUSTIFIED as a womans natural unproblematic right by this fandom bc yall are really out here not thinking twice about the horrible implications of making Marinette Ladybug "lovingly" physically assault Adrien Chat for girlboss points or shits n giggles at every turn. No matter how fucking unnecessarily violently executed or even entirely unwarranted in the first place. You just don't fucking care.

The way this fandom has Marinette physically and emotionally violate Adrien Chat however extreme and even unwarranted as she pleases and then you people have the nerve to romanticize that abusive shit by having Adrien be INTO THAT and LIKE IT in a loving relationship while he never once gets to defend himself - bc now that would glorify domestic abuse right? - is the most backwards and hypocritical "feminist" characterisation teh show has to offer but yall truly make it into glorified abuse bc "woman strooooong and in control, its PROGRESSIVE! 💅🏼He respects and admires her strength an authority, he doesn mind getting put in his place à bit rougher by her bc he supports her as the powerful woman leader she is 😌."

Even the Marinette fans who claim to feel for Adrien in his abuse (or even ADRIEN FANS) turn around and laugh at or completely write it off when Marinette gets characterized in Canon and ESPECIALLY in fanon to basically just violate, assault, humiliate, insult and dehumanizes her male love interest for her "empowerment". Because yall claim to be so feminist and progressive but it's so fucking obvious that you only care about how WOMEN can benefit the best from everything. You want revenge porn that's all.

Adrien, his abuse and male abuse victims of any kind are a mere afterthought for you (sometimes not even that) in the feminism you believe in and s4 made that so fucking clear. 95% of this "progressive" Fandom wouldn't hold a female abuser accountable for her actions, even if it were to save the male victims life, the moment the woman isn't a 1 dimensional, obvious monster. If a woman has ONE sympathetic emotion in her portrayal yall will excuse and justify her getting the male victim served to her obedient an perfect an pretty on a silver plate.

95% of the miraculous Fandom has lost their fucking right to claim they care about abuse victims, because no you fucking don't. Not when it's a man and the scenario is coincidentally layed out perfectly to have the woman benefit on every level from the man getting abused, neglected and taken advantage of to 17 hells. Then youll look for n max out every excuse an justification on every meta level available to belittle the disgusting treatment the men went through.

YOU don't give a FUCK about abuse victims and their life's and pain the moment they are male, and s4 has an still IS now in s5 having you publicly blog that into the open internet because THAT'S how little you truly think of male abuse victims. Miraculous is a girl power show, so you will not think twice about dehumanizing and victim blaming boys for woke and even TOXIC feminist points, cuz the last thing you would ever do is hold women girls to healthy standards too in their dynamics an relationships with men boys under a feminist narrative.

"Feminism" for you is an excuse and Marinette fans in s4 proofed that in every way possible.

[xhanisai]

People should be more like me and pretend that the character(s) they hate or really dislike just doesn’t exist at all. Just scroll past. Just block out the names. And create my content how I like it.

[chatonnoir]

Your answer about Chloe does remind me of how weirdly people look at morality in the show. Marinette's a fundamentally good person but her screw-ups make her "terrible", while Chloe is consistently a mean person but her acting like a semi-decent human 5 times automatically deems her as a redeemed person. Kinda makes it sound like you're better off being a mean person who gives out scraps of kindness/human decency to be liked by the ML fandom as opposed to the opposite

People literally say the show is unfair because Marinette can make poor decisions and "get away with it" while Chloe and Lila are "punished" for (supposedly) the same things. Somehow these people are incapable of comprehending that intent matters. Marinette ultimately does not want to hurt people and wants what is best for everyone and does what she believes will keep everyone safe. Chloe is an unabashedly mean and selfish person on top of being a literal bigot and she makes that everyone else's problem. Apparently it needs to be explained but making a bad decision in a moment of poor judgement when you ultimately want to do what will be best for everyone involved VS outwardly being cruel to people on a regular basis because it makes you feel better about yourself are literally not the same.

But oh, look, Chloe the bigot did the decent thing for once in her life in this one scene in one episode. Give her a round of applause everyone she's on the road to redemption!!!!! How dare they REVERSE her redemption (single decent act) by making her act completely in-character and in line with the traits that have been established in her from the start!!!!!!! She couldn't help being racist don't you understand it's because her mom sucks you just don't understand abused kids!!!1!1!!11!!!! Thomas Astruc just hates Chloe and favoritizes Mary Sue Marinette!!!!!!!1!1!!!1

The fact that This is the hill so many people choose to die on is embarrassing

[jeankirsteind]

Anyway, I know either you or your staffs are stealing fan contents both characters’ designs or story (like Chat Blanc) and you’re keep making your virtual daughter with your ex-girlfriend like a saint who always right on everything around her.

Congrats sir for making Chloe irredeemable as possible by using many excuses which comes out of nowhere. And you know what, your characters are sucks man. They’re either just being nice like a saint who got immune from the consequences or make them like a devil incarnation.

I know I’m not a good writer but I hate someone like him making a bad moral through their creation just for sake to fulfill his revenge fantasy and self-insert that he’s better than the others.

For another fan content makers who find this post, just keep going on making a good story from this wasted potential. You’re only one who can fulfill the void that made by him.

[emsylcatac]

not to be bitter but why does Chloe in fandom have like 10x more analysis that analyze her behaviour and how shes secretly a great person, compared to people trying to understand Marinette's behaviour in s4 (or even in general?) which instead had people giving her way more scrutiny😭😭? i like both characters but maybe I'm just confused on why the protagonist gets less effort in analyzing her and less empathy/sympathy, compared to the girl that acted nice like 4 times.

Don't worry lots of people analyse Marinette's character in S4 and in the show but it's to say that "she was an asshole to chat noir in season 4 😠😠 nd she caused many akumas!! more than chloè 😠😠 and she's a bitch to chloè she didnt give miraculous to her!! grrrr 😠"

Joke aside (that's not a joke actually rip) and I hate that you're right, there are loooots of reasons I'm afraid (none of them are good though). I would go over each one of them but I think we've said it a lot in the past already and I believe that you too anon knows the answer to this 😔😫

(something that I'm wondering though, is why people are waaayyy madder and intense about Chloé not getting the development they think she deserves (because they're impatient and like being mad but shhh), compared to people hoping, say, Nino would get more onscreen development 🫣 like, we still haven't seen his parents while he seemed introduced as one of the main secondary character since S1, even some white blue haired dude took more importance than him as of late, but weeeeirdly enough that doesn't bother people as much as "Chloé loosing the bee miraculous and being done dirty by the writers uwuwuwuwuwu". I really wonder why hmmmmmmmmm 🤔🤔🤔🤪)

[flightfoot]

What fanon takes that make you cringe/irritated/disgusted?

Personally I always find fanon that said Jagged as Marinette's friend as cringe, even more so than marichat "purrrincess". It's because mostly it's being used in salt fic often and even it's not the author always make it as if they're communicating in daily basis to the point Marinette can always call him whenever she need him which I find it weird considering Jagged is an international celebrity and very busy person and while Marinette did make a great impression on him I don't think he would bother to be involved in middle school drama. Especially considering that he choose his career over his own child's pre s4.

I have no problem with Chat calling Marinette "purrincess", it's cute and harmless.

The whole "Uncle Jagged" thing is okay in principle and I like the idea of Marinette talking with him a decent amount. I think there's some grounding to that idea, since he asked her advice on who to get as his back-up guitarist in Desperada for... some reason.

Now the concept that he'd be a better parent than Tom and Sabine are is obviously based on demonizing Tom and Sabine, because they're amazing parents, honestly. Thankfully that take seems to have decreased a lot with the revelation that Jagged ran out on his own children because he felt like he wouldn't be a good parent. And then wrote a song about how his only family is his guitar afterwards which is so messed up it crosses the line into funny again.

And yeah I don't think he'd get hugely involved in middle school drama beyond saying "hey don't bully, it's not cool".

As for fanon that leaves me cringing/irritated/disgusted... look it's gonna be anything that's frequently used in demonizing the ML characters. I'm fine with pretty much anything as long it's not THAT. The intense, incessant demonization of the characters has led me to the point where I'll see say, Alya being made into Lila's lackey so the other characters can insult her and team up to viciously punish her, and then that gives me flashbacks to all the other times I've seen it and seen people celebrate how much she deserves to be demonized and hurt, and then that won't leave my head for hours. I will sometimes check people's AO3 accounts or tumblr accounts to see whether there's any of that in their most recent stuff, to see whether the person is safe to interact with.

Other stuff might occasionally be mildly irritating, but I really don't care that much unless it's something that's to the point of inescapability and horrificness of the insane levels of bashing.

[iwasbored777]

Oh my God did Marinette ever act like Marinette in fanfics???!!! 😭😭😭😭 I also saw a lot of accounts talking about this and how Marinette is always more mature in fanfiction and doesn't stutter and chase after Adrien. I get it if this version is better for someone but I think we can all collectively agree that fanon Marinette isn't better than canon. I would rather have a protégé of Candace Flynn (who's one of my favs too she's insane and I love that kid ❤️❤️❤️) than this mature Gabriel-forgiving Chat Noir-hating pun-disrespecting baby-disowning. That's not Marinette. None of that is Marinette. Like "we made her better by taking away her core traits and giving her much worse flaws that are so out of character but benefit the story".