#but some of the arguments i’ve seen are just weird and i think you guys need to look at why it makes you uncomfortable

[djungleskogs]

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[19catsncounting]

I Got Really Into Anti/Proship Discourse And Read +30 Academic Studies - My Findings

(It’s a Yapfest but the whole post is a very long essay and study on morality and fiction and children’s safety and rape culture with a fuckton of freely accessible academic articles and resources on the subject, and I want to talk to other people about it. For a shorter abstract with all the articles and more easily ignored yapping, see my shiny new Carrd:)

It’s been a little shocking lately to have certain discussions with some parts of fandom. I spoke about shipping/harassment and how that contributes to the death of fandom on TikTok assuming that younger folks are just really, really intense about preventing sexual violence, but the more I saw the words “morally wrong” and “disgusting” and “addiction,” the more I thought about this guy-

That’s Jerry Falwell, and I fucking hate this dead guy. You see, Jerry Falwell was a preacher who hated porn, feminism, and homosexuality. And I'm seeing his rhetoric and reworked quotes a lot.

Jerry would say stuff like:

“Pornography hurts anyone who reads it - garbage in, garbage out.”

“Someone must not be afraid to say ‘moral perversion is wrong.’ If we do not act now, homosexuals will ‘own’ America!”

Jerry wanted people to believe that it’s possible to see so much sexual content that it warps your sexuality, because he was gay and wanted to think that was due to thinking about gay sex too much. Jerry did not have a lot of evidence to prove that homosexuality was harmful, so he relied heavily on how “morally distasteful” it seemed to be to suburban Americans.

I spent the majority of my teen years arguing against Jerry’s rhetoric for the right to live as a lesbian online, and I never thought I’d see morality rhetoric in people I’m otherwise very politically aligned with. And I definitely never thought fandom of all things, in all its beautiful subversive glory, would seriously start advocating for censorship, anti-porn, and to consume fanwork with moral purity.

So, I’d like to have a deeper discussion on it, both here on Tumblr and on TikTok, but that does mean checking a few things at the door:

Personal feelings decide your personal life. What you feel is valid for you, not anyone else.

In general, things that do not cause direct and undeniable harm should not be broadly prohibited just because they’re weird or distasteful to the majority of folks. Ex. Loitering does not cause harm and is a tool of systemic oppression.

The discussion of “fictional CSEM” is the most inflammatory fork of this and it is often used to derail these kinds of conversations. This is all I will say on it - the legal status of explicit visual depictions of minors is muddy. In the US, there is just one dude in Utah who pled guilty for possessing explicit lolicon he bought by mail order without also possessing CSEM with real children, and explicit writing about fictional minors has been settled as protected free speech. Dedicated organizations from the NCMEC to Chris Hansen have asked that fictional content is not reported as CSAM as it is not actionable and clogs up finite resources. 90% of NCMEC reports were not actionable last year. There are studies suggesting that virtual CSEM or other non-victim alternatives could reduce actual child harm, but there is need for further research.

We’re all in agreement that untagged NSFW is not cool, and kids deserve kid-only sections of the internet. People who are triggered by or dislike problematic content deserve to be able to not see it. 👍

 (I’ve seen the argument that blocking tags/people should not be required - sorry, PTSD still requires that you manage your triggers, up to and including swearing off platforms just as I have sworn off bars/soap brands/etc to avoid my triggers.)

I have found a lot of accessible and free articles and studies that I will link throughout so that we can discuss the fact-based reasoning, in an effort to have a civil conversation.

(Also because we are not flat earthers, we are Fandom, and if we’re going to be annoying little shitheels in an “Um Actually” contest, we’re going to have the sources to back it up.)

Minors and Explicit Material

I’m not supporting minors engaging with explicit material. I have such little interest in the subject that I’m not even going to bring in articles, but you can feel free to. I personally engaged with explicit material as a preteen of my own free will and did not find it to be harmful, and the majority of people throughout human history have been exposed to explicit material at an early age with varying degrees of harm. There are undeniable legal and harm-driven differences between a 12 year old girl looking at Hustler on her own, a 14 year old boy being sent nudes from a grown woman, and a 6 year old viewing PornHub. (And I think the guardians of that 6 year old should be charged with grooming just like the woman, tbh.)

Personal Disclaimer

I’m an adult survivor of CSA and incest. I’m a happily married adult. I don’t personally like lolicon/shotacon/kodocon. I don’t like kids. I don’t like teens. I’m personally not attracted to underage fictional characters. I have family, the idea of fucking any of them makes me want to throw up and die, so I don’t write or read RPF of my family.

I am really, really fucking intense about preventing sexual violence, supporting survivors, and fandom, which is where this all comes from.

I read and love problematic fiction - my favorites are ASOIAF, Lolita, and VC Andrews. The most “problematic” thing I’ve personally written are Lucifer/Michael fics from Supernatural back in 2012. They are “brothers” in CW Christ, not blood. They do not have any blood.

Gen Z and Online Grooming

In 2002, a survey of 1500 minors from 10-17 found that 4% had been solicited for sexual purposes by an adult online.

In 2023, that number increased to 20%.

While the linked 2023 Thorn report suggests that the vast majority of these inappropriate interactions happened on platforms that allow for interpersonal communication, which by and large minors were greatly discouraged from and had less access to in the early 2000’s, a trauma-informed approach does not allow for blame to fall on the children. The guardians of those children have monumentally failed to restrict and educate before giving children the means to access those platforms.

It is my uncited but personal opinion that the increased rate of grooming, as well as an increased interest in combating rape culture, has led to well-intentioned individuals to become digital vigilantes attacking those who they hold responsible for their traumatic experiences in a search for catharsis and justice denied for themselves as well as a desire to make the internet safer for other children, whom they are increasingly aware are entering online spaces unsupervised at distressingly young ages.

Is harassment and bullying bad for perpetrators of it?

Before we get into how ship-related hate campaigns do not affect predation or combat rape culture, we should acknowledge that it’s actually pretty harmful for the people who cyberbully. Not just in the legal/social consequences, but people who participate in cyberbullying and cyberhate campaigns have higher rates of depression, estrangement from their parents, self-effacing habits, social anxiety, lower empathy, and so forth.

One study suggests that the treatment and prohibitive for cyberbullying, which contributes to a culture of cyberhate and a lower likelihood to report or confront other incidents of harassment or toxicity online, can be combatted with media competency to increase empathy along with other important life skills.

Some Common Pro-Censorship Myths

“Pornography is Addictive/Consumption of Pornography Leads to Increasingly Hardcore Imagery And Ultimately Real-World Violence” - The American Psychological Association does not recognize Porn Addiction as real and the DSM-5 does not classify it as an addiction. Additionally, many methods used in articles claiming that porn is addictive or causes users to seek out more hardcore material were flawed or biased. There is actually some evidence that compulsive porn use, the closest you can get to a porn addiction diagnosis, is associated with shame and the user’s belief that pornography is morally wrong, which sex-negative attitudes encourage.

“Jaws caused shark culling” - That's unfortunately a simplification that ignores a LOT of surrounding context. WW2’s modern naval battles with an increase of ship sinkings and thus contact with sharks prompted the invention and use of shark repellant by aviators and sailors in the 1940’s. The most deadly and famous shark attack of all time was the USS Indianapolis sinking in 1945, which led to 12-150 deaths. The 1974 book Jaws by Peter Benchley, which was the entire basis of the movie, was inspired by One Fucking Dude who started shark hunting tours and overall seemed to have a really immaculate vibe. The interstate highways that finished in the 1950’s increased beach tourism in the 60’s and onwards, inspiring the American surf culture, further increasing the cultural desire to purge sharks for the new swath of beachgoers and their fondness for using surfboards which make them look like seals to sharks. Additionally, 1975’s Jaws inspired a huge desire for education about sharks, and the relationship between problematic media and education will be the core of this yapperoni pizza.

“The Slendermen Killings/Other Fiction Inspired Crimes” - The ACLU states that “There is no evidence that fiction has ever driven a sane person to violence.” Inspired crimes are indeed no less tragic, and thankfully rare, but people who suffer from inability to discern reality and fiction do not necessarily need fiction to commit violence. The “Son of Sam” murder spree was not inspired by a book or movie, but instead Berkowitz’ auditory hallucinations.

“Violent videogames DO cause violence” - After a great deal of funding and study, the American Psychological Association has concluded that teens and younger may have increased feelings of aggression and not necessarily physically violent outbursts as a direct effect, but older teens and young adults do not encounter statistically meaningful rates of aggression.

“Your brain can’t tell the difference between fiction and reality” - Factually incorrect. Children as young as 5 years old can tell the difference, and they can even be more suspicious about “facts” that come from sources they know also host fiction, such as TV shows.

“This stuff shouldn’t be online because it can be used to groom a child” - While I could not find specific statistics on how often pornography is used to desensitize child victims, nor how often that is specifically used in online grooming, and especially not how much of that pornography is made from fictional characters - out of a mixed group of convicted offenders with adult and child victims, 55% of offenders used pornography to manipulate their victim. I would never refute that explicit fanart or fanfic could be used to desensitize a child, but that is by far not the only tool (asking about sexual experiences/identity, making jokes, etc is extremely common grooming behavior), and there is no evidence to suggest that it is used to a statistically significant degree. In my own anecdotal experience, normal vanilla legal pornography is used with far greater prevalence, and there isn’t a similar movement to shame its production for that possibility. Nor should the creators of any material, pornographic or otherwise, share blame in the actions of a predator.

The Fiction Affects Reality Carrd

(No hate to the person who made it, in fact I give props to them for trying to find unbiased sources, I just want to point out that their interpretations of their articles are kinda flawed and one of their studies is a kind of a perfect example on small and culturally biased samples.)

Reading Fiction Impacts Aggressive Behavior - (I cannot access the full study but this article is the primary source used in the Carrd and it goes into detail) - A study showed that 67 university students were more annoyed with a loud buzzer after reading a short story about a physical fight between roommates compared to a story with nonviolent revenge. However, this study was conducted at Brigham Young University, the same campus where we got a whole video series of hot ethical takes like “I’d rather shoot a kitten than drink coffee,” so uh. Yeah. Kind of a prime example on why it’s important to have large and culturally varied sampling. (Another BYU study with 137 BYU students being odd about moral ambiguity in fiction, just because I’m starting to add Dr. Sarah M. Coyne to my list of “Sarah’s That I Dislike.”)

Your Brain on Fiction - a NYT article that describes Theory of the Mind and how fMRIs captured how readers’ minds would light up centers of muscle control when reading sentences like “Peter kicked.” The quote “The brain, it seems, does not make much of a distinction between reading about an experience and encountering it in real life; in each case, the same neurological regions are stimulated” is speaking of motor functions. Emotional centers of the brain were not included in the study.

How Fiction Changes Your World - a Boston Globe article that actually describes how people who read more fiction are more empathetic and tend to believe in a just world. It does not state that the empathy a reader feels for fictional characters extends to corrupting their moral compass. In fact, there’s such a thing as a “fictive license” to explore taboo themes more thoroughly because it is not real - 123 participants were interviewed after watching two actors play the part of detective and murderer being interviewed, and participants who were told it was fake had more varied and inquisitive responses.

The Social Impact of Books - Actually reuses the previous study about the just world, so point remains. Empathy is understanding, not mirroring.

Is Problematic Fiction Good for Survivors of Trauma?

It absolutely depends on the individual.

Writing expressively about traumatic experiences has been shown to be effective to reduce depression, or more effective in reducing dysphoria and anxiety than talking to fellow survivors, and Written Exposure Therapy is broadly prescribed to survivors of trauma, with one study centering on car crash survivors finding that WET resolved their PTSD symptoms and continued to be effective after a year.

In this study, which sadly is not available online but it is too important to leave out completely, survivors of CSA were given fictional novels about CSA and in closely reading and analyzing those stories, were able to understand their own experiences and were indeed drawn to write about their own experiences as well.

Engaging in problematic fiction, like all fiction, allows for consent as well as control. If at any point a survivor does not feel in control or wishes to stop, they can at that instant. They can even rewrite their narratives and take control of their story in fictionalizing and changing the account. They can even try to understand what their abuser felt through fiction, which is helpful considering that the vast majority of survivors had a relationship that had been positive and even loving with their abusers at times.

Is Problematic Fiction Good for Everyone Else?

It again depends on the individual.

Antis might be a little right that most people don't want to read problematic stories. In a study exploring whether fiction can corrode morals, 83% of study participants stated that they would prefer not to read a short story justifying baby murder if they had the choice, even if that exploration isn’t inherently harmful.

This very small sample study of 13 participants discussed how young women interpreted sexual themes in writing, including explicit fanfiction, and how that was beneficial and informative to explore sexual desire and examine healthy and unhealthy relationships in a safe and controlled environment.

This meta-analysis further discusses how problematic and sexual themes in YA literature are useful to illustrate what sexual violence looks like, and begin educational conversations through those depictions to break down harmful myths such as “if she didn’t scream, she wanted it.”

Empowered by the “Fictive License” previously cited, problematic fiction can be beneficial for anyone who desires and is capable of consuming and analyzing it.

This study analyzing abusive aspects of three films - Beauty and the Beast, Twilight, and 50 Shades of Gray - concluded that these abusive themes should be discussed to increase recognition and awareness, not censored based on those problematic themes.

This study of 53 women were asked to read different versions of fictional intimate partner violence flags, or “toxic behavior” like surveillance, control, etc. In every version of the story, whether the female or male had those behaviors either courting or committed, the women recognized the behavior as wrong.

Another study that reading allows for the moral laboratory to explore morality in fiction without decisive impact to corroding moral permissibility.

Is There Ever Any Point Where Fictional Interests Definitively Speak On Someone’s Morality?

In short - not really. Loving Jason Vorhees does not put you at risk of murdering campers as long as you know he’s not real. Writing Wincest does not mean you look forward to family reunions, as long as you know incest isn’t okay in the real world. The real world, where real people are harmed, is where you find the measure of someone’s character.

This Psychology Today article is the best source I could find for quotes from a fantastic book ‘Who's Been Sleeping in Your Head? The Secret World of Sexual Fantasies’ by Brett Kahr regarding taboo sexual fantasies and how they are not only common, but not inherently harmful.

There are people who enjoy problematic media in an entirely nonsexual sense, of course. I myself don’t get off on problematic media - I think it’s just interesting to explore different experiences, and I think that can be revolutionary.

Additionally, fantasies in general have almost always been in the vein of “things you don’t want to really happen in reality.” In a study of 351 asexuals, more than half reported that they fantasize about having sex, but that doesn’t mean that they actually want to. You can fantasize about dating Billie Eilish - it doesn’t mean that you’d be happy dealing with celebrity culture.

(I personally fantasize about the internet being just for adults, but in practice I think that would be incredibly harmful and isolating for at-risk youth and LGBTQ teens) Fantasies always pluck out only the bits of reality that you want to engage with.

If You Get Off On Fictional Kids, You’re Attracted to Something About Them Being Kids

Not inherently, surprisingly. Wearing a schoolgirl uniform is a pretty common roleplay, and it’s not meant to “fool” the participants into thinking they’re indulging in pedophilia. There’s a wealth of emotional and sexual nuance in that specific kink - innocence and virginity play, tilted power dynamics in ‘scolding’ the uniform wearer for dress code violations, even the concept of a sexually provocative “teenager” can be played with without shame, because the world of fetish and fantasy is separated from condonable actions for the vast, vast majority of adults. (The only study I could find on this is this small study of 100 white guys found on Facebook, which itself states it is not definitive, found that while there might be correlation between attraction to children and interest in schoolgirl uniforms, there is no proof of causation. AKA, the rectangular pedophile might indeed like square schoolgirl uniforms, but not everyone - in fact, the majority at nearly 60% in this very survey - that likes square schoolgirl uniforms is a rectangular pedophile.)

Even sexual age play between adults is not indicative of pedophilia because it exists in a setting between two adults who fully understand that the mechanics are completely fake, allowing the power dynamics that would be abusive between an adult and child to be ethically explored.

I don’t have an official-looking study to cite, but I have asked people who like content about underage fictional characters why they do so. Overwhelmingly, a lot of the ones who like underage age gaps like the fantasy of an older and more experienced character taking a younger one under their wing, to have the opportunity to commit violent and blatantly objectifying harm and yet try to create what inevitably does not truly pass as consent, but seems near enough to the characters. Some think that the characters themselves have an interesting chemistry. Some read underage fic and still imagine the characters as adults. Some like to explore the feelings of shame that the older character must feel and how they mentally compartmentalize to go forward with the relationship, and how the younger character found themself in that vulnerable position - which is exploring a harmful situation through fiction to understand how it could play out in real life.

People who like fictional incest like exploring the shameful components of that taboo relationship - and I have seen a lot of works that compare how bad incest could be to other harms, like the Gravecest route in a game with parental cannibalism. And then there are folks who like analyzing the codependency of having one person fulfill every social need - family, friend, lover, AKA Wincest.

What makes a predator if it’s not just sexual attraction?

90% of CSA survivors know their abuser, discrediting the still-entirely-too-popular Stranger Danger myth. And shockingly, only 50% of abusers are pedophiles.

That means 50% of child molesters do not have sexual interest in children because they are children, but they victimized children because they are more accessible in lieu of adult partners, with increased rates of incest.

While I could not find a specific study on the relation between dehumanization/objectification of child victims and child molesters (and if you find one, please send it to me!), this study speaks on dehumanization as a precursor to adult sexual violence.

This study, conducted on convicted child molesters in prison, showed that child molesters tend to fantasize about children while in a negative mood, further contributing to the theory that child victims are dehumanized prior to abuse.

This very small sample study found that in a mixed sample of internet only/contact crime/mixed offenders, offenders who had contact with children had lower rates of fantasizing about children.

In short, half the time a child predator is someone who wants to offend against a child regardless of attraction to the fact they are a child.

Resources To Recognize Grooming/Abuse Victims/Predators

I would absolutely be remiss to not share my collection of resources to help detect signs of abuse/grooming as well as warning signs of a predator who may be targeting elders/women/teens/children:

Darkness 2 Light is a fantastic resource overall, this page details stages and signs of grooming.

RAINN personally helped me through my PTSD journey, and this article detailing the signs of sexual trauma in teenagers is thorough and non-judgemental

Signs of abuse as well as warning signs of predation that does not use gendered language nor play into the Stranger Danger myth.

Education, not Censorship

I think a lot of the energy against taboo content among young people still has a lot to do with the desire to end rape culture. The tools that we Millennial Tumblrinas gave you Gen Z kids were snatches of leftist theory, deplatforming, and voting with your dollar, so it’s reasonable to think that removing taboo content like pedophilia, incest, rape fights rape culture.

It doesn’t.

Rape culture is fought by education. Comprehensive sex education, education about consent. Talking about what consent looks like, what sex can look like, what rape can look like.

There should be more taboo content to talk about these things, to show all the shades it can look like. From a violent noncon to fics that aren’t even tagged as dubcon yet still are in shades that are hard to suss out, we should talk about it.

A Non-Empirical Example Of Good Media Analysis and Education to Combat Rape Culture

Let’s use the example of Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen’s relationship in House of the Dragon. Canonically, in both the book and the show, they have a romantic relationship that appears for the most part to be positive (the show being more contentious but I dedicated an aside to Sarah Hess and our beef at the bottom of my Carrd, but feel free to ask how I feel about writing producers with any variation of the name ‘Sarah’) despite an age gap, a sexual relationship that began while Rhaenyra was a minor, and incest - the problematic hat trick if you will.

I have seen anti-Daemyra shippers condemn Daemyra shippers for “Condoning grooming, age gaps, pedophilia, and incest.” Which is not just a broad, inaccurate, and harmful statement, it’s not at all constructive or educational analysis.

It would actually be beneficial to say “Daemon is grooming Rhaenyra as a teenager with gifts, devoted attention that takes advantage of her isolation and vulnerability, frequent nonsexual touches, the extreme desensitization to sexuality in the brothel visit,” etc etc. And even so, it is not useful to say that people cannot still ship the relationship and acknowledge those aspects. They might want to further explore the issues of consent in their dynamic in fiction, they may want to strip away some of them with narrative reimagining. Some might want to ignore the taboos completely and indulge in the fantasy entirely, and some might find the actors hot as hell - AKA, anyone who watches the show.

It’s honestly a little similar to me in how Jerry Falwell would tell his followers not to watch or read or take in any media that dealt with homosexuality unless it was condemning it - even Will & Grace was on Jerry’s shitlist. And so, Jerry’s followers missed out on a lot of media that could have educated them about queerness, could have humanized queer people for them - and that did not make queers go away. Just like ignoring or shutting out media about incest, rape, and other forms of sexual violence doesn’t make those things go away - it just tends to make you less informed, and little less capable of empathy towards people affected by those subjects.

So let’s stop shaming those that ship a complicated dynamic - you get less fanworks exploring those taboos, and less of a discussion overall. You shut down the morality lab of fiction, and to be honest, it’s wet sock behavior.

Some FanFiction Specific Studies

How dubcon fanfiction can flesh out the intricacies and messiness of realistic consent

A review of darkfic written about Harry Potter in 2005 (which, I will personally attest has never been outdone in how profoundly taboo those works were)

Interviews with 11 Self Insert writers who wrote on themes of rape, abuse, control, yandere, etc, and how that was beneficial to some who had experienced sexual violence themselves

Conclusion:

H…holy shit, you actually read all of that?? Congrats dude! That is a lot of time and brain power to dedicate to any one thing!

By the way, I am not really gifted at writing articles or any of that junk, and I tried to make my hyperlexic ass a little more accessible instead of bringing out all the $5 words. I am literally just an autistic who took a couple technical writing classes over a decade ago and really wanted to sort out my thoughts and try to have a platform for discussion. Also, I am really fucking bad at math. I failed two different college level statistics classes twice each. Gun to my head, I could not tell you what a standard deviation is, which is why I worked entirely with the percentages.

And I do want to have a discussion! I would in fact like to not report anyone for sending me gore or death threats or any of that stuff! I don’t think everyone will agree with me, in fact I’m certain that you could find studies that contradict some of mine, and I’d love to discuss them!

I’m sure it will still be tempting to throw around accusations of pedophilia because sometimes, confronting your previously held beliefs is incredibly uncomfortable. If you could not do that, that would be great? I don’t like being compared to someone who profoundly abused me just because I have a different opinion on how to combat rape culture and empower survivors. If you can do that, I’ll do my absolute best to be cheerful and welcoming and respectful as well. 😁

PS - I’m also not really going to be phased if you call me weird or cringe - I am. Always have been. Cringe, weirdness, and autism have made me do and capable of doing some fantastically neat and impressive stuff. But if you try to say something like “proshippers are too yucky and weird to be in fandom” - I’m going to have to refer you to your similarity to Kate Sanders of Lizzy McGuire fame, you “prEpz >:(“ - [My Immortal, legendary author unknown]

[rosepinks-world]

FUCK IT I LOVE YOU, I REALLY DO (cherry waves pt2)

summary: wade helps you patch things up with Logan via a party.

taglist: @justaleksss @fallout-girl219 @fandomsunited @midnights-afternoons

It had been at least a week since you’d last seen Logan.

You hated to say it but you’d been a wreck. The whole point of casual sex was that you wouldn’t get your heart broken and yet here you were with your heart broken. The fact you felt this way made you realise that you felt the same way about Logan. I mean if you were that bothered about not seeing him that had to mean something.

One weekend you were in a blanket cocoon on the sofa binge watching some shit reality tv when you heard a knock on your door.

Logan.

He was all that came to mind as you fixed your hair and outfit slightly. You excitedly whipped the door open to reveal:

“Oh. Hi Wade.” You said your smile leaving your face.

“Well fuck you!” He said inviting himself in dropping some flowers onto your counter. “I was chased by an old lady for picking those from her front garden so you better put them in the best vase you own.”

You laughed but returned to being a bit miserable.

“What are you doing here Wade?”

“I’m throwing a little get together and you’re invited! How fun is that?”

Really he came all this way to invite you to a party?

“Wade you have my number why didn’t you just text me.”

“Okay you’re really missing the point.”

You furrowed your eyebrows.

“Logan is doing my fucking head in.” He complained emphasising the ‘ing’. “He keeps moping around the apartment like he’s been told he can’t jerk off for the rest of his life and it’s got to stop.”

You rolled your eyes, “Wade he’s a prick I don’t want anything to do with him.”

He tilted his head pulling out a stool and sat at the counter.

“Okay you had argument apparently but I need more, tell daddy the drama.”

You cringed at the nickname. “Never say that again.”

“Noted. Now carry on!”

You huffed slightly annoyed and embarrassed about explaining what Logan had said to you.

“We were gonna have sex like usual. He ate me out…”

“Yum.” Wade said interrupting.

You gave him a look and he quickly apologised holding his hands to his mouth.

“When I … finished I hit my head on the bed it was funny so I started laughing and then straight after he… finished in his pants from just that. He got up to the balcony smoked a cigar told me we shouldn’t fuck anymore, went to leave with no explanation, then told me that we shouldn’t because he’s falling in love with me and it’s the last thing any of us needs.”

Wade for the first time in forever was speechless.

“So yeah forgive me for not really caring about his moping.”

Wade shook his head laughing, “Never would’ve guessed that Wolvie was the Boston cream his pants type of guy.”

You threw the flowers at him. “That’s not the point Wade!”

“Woah! What’s the point then?”

“He made me feel like I’m unloveable!”

You sighed and continued explaining your point.

“I would’ve accepted him worrying about catching feelings but he said it’s the last thing any of us needed. Am I that bad?”

Wade gave you a sympathetic look as he placed a hand on your shoulder. He thought for a moment thinking of the right thing to say when he gasped.

“Ohhh! I know what his problem is.”

You perked up, “What is it?”

He shook his head no. “I think it’s better if you work it out yourself.”

You threw your arms out aggressively. “What the fuck Wade?”

“Y/n. You’re an incredible, funny, kind hearted person with an amazing ass! Of course Logan fell for you. How could he not? He’s a really sexy but really complicated guy which is why, like I said you should be getting your answers from him.”

You didn’t say anything and Wade sighed.

“Look come to our apartment tonight. Wear something slutty and go get your man. Just warn me if you’re gonna fuck because I really, really, really want to listen.”

You smiled at Wades weird way of comforting you. “I’ll think about it.”

Wade nodded looking at his watch, “Well I’ve got to go and pick up Als coke. See ya y/n”

You decided to take Wades advice.

It was ten pm. Loud music thumped through the door as you stood outside Wade and Logan’s shared apartment. You had a ‘slutty’ dress on and you’d done your makeup to the way you liked it. You went to knock on the door when you stopped just infront of it. What the fuck were you doing?

You went to walk away when the door swung open as if Wade could sense you.

“Y/ns here!” He screamed to the large collection of people as they cheered. He pulled you through the room whispering about how he was proud of you and something about how your ass looked great.

As Wade got distracted your eyes landed on a familiar brown leather jacket. You smiled slightly, you couldn’t help it but it quickly faded when he moved to the side slightly to reveal a woman. She had opposite features to you and she stood in front of him giggling and touching his arms and face. She then leaned up to kiss him and you quickly turned away.

You were angry.

Furious to be exact. You weren’t official but he obviously didn’t fall for you that hard if he was kissing another girl. You snatched a drink from Colossus’ hand downing it as you went to find more.

You were pretty far gone. Not on the verge of blackout (yet at least) but the type of drunk that would explain what you were doing right now. You were on top of a table with a crowd around you as you threw your hips around to the song playing. The cheers from the crowd encouraging you to carry on dancing and to go even further.

You felt yourself reaching to the strap of your dress pulling it sultrily down your arm the top of your bra showing. The cheers only got louder distracting you from the random guy who leaned very close to the table. He placed his hands on the top of your legs grabbing your thighs. He reached his hands around and harshly smacked your ass. The flashing lights around you combined with the thumping bass and cheers were disorientating. You barely saw as the guy who’d grabbed you was harshly shoved away a voice bellowing out,

“Get the fuck out of here! What sort of people did you invite here Wade?”

You squinted to try and make out what was going on when your legs were swept off the table. You were hoisted over the man’s shoulder the front of your body draped over his back your ass extremely close to his face. You got worried for a second wondering who the hell was picking you up and whether the intentions were right until he spoke.

“What the fuck are you doing y/n?”

Logan.

The happiness of seeing him quickly wore off. God who does he think he is getting mad at you? You returned to being angry.

“Why do you care? I’m not yours to worry about anyway.”

He let out a sigh and kicked the door to what you now realised was his bedroom. You’d been there so many times that the fact you could barely walk in a straight line didn’t stop you from recognising it. He put you down on the bed gently as he went to remove your shoes.

If you had been sober you would’ve shrugged him off to show that you didn’t need him but all independence went out of your mind the minute he’d picked you up. If you had been sober you also wouldn’t make yourself seem so jealous but words left your lips quicker than you could think.

“Who was the girl you were with?” You asked as you kicked off your now undone shoe.

He looked genuinely confused. “What girl?”

You threw your head back on the bed annoyed.

“The girl that was rubbing up against you and kissed you.”

He smirked slightly, he couldn’t help but like the fact you were jealous.“Never seen her in my life. She came onto me, tried to kiss me I declined. She was pretty fucked up I think she got into Als coke so I called her a cab.”

Always a gentleman.

You rolled your eyes as he went to take off your other shoe. “Why are you so nice?” You huffed.

He smiled at the compliment. “Nice? I don’t think that’s me bub.”

You shook your head rather erratic due to the state you were in. “Nope! You are nice you just don’t let other people see it.” He smiled at your compliment.“Well you were nice until you made me feel like shit.”

He frowned guiltily as he helped you up to the pillows on the bed and placed the duvet over you. Logan stood back up and turned towards the door.

“You gonna leave me again?” You asked disappointed. God sober you would be so angry.

He shook his head. “I shouldn’t be here with you when you’re like this. It’s not right.”

You laughed hiccuping as you did “You’ve literally been inside me multiple times and this is where you draw the line? We’re not fucking! Just lay with me.”

He looked skeptical until you tilted your head your eyes shining brightly as you grabbed his arm. “Please?”

How could he say no to you when you looked like that? He cleared his throat and sat next to you on the bed. “You want anything?”

“Yeah. I want you.” You replied not looking at him, eyes fluttering open and closed. You were exhausted.

He shook his head. “Bub, no you don’t.”

You tiredly laughed in disbelief. “What do you mean? I really want this to happen you’re the one that said falling in love with me is the last thing any of us need? Am I that unlovable?”

You wanted him? You were drunk but they do say drunk words are sober thoughts. He wanted to tell you how he felt but there was no damn way you’d remember any of it the next morning. “I’m not answering you when you’re drunk I want you to remember what I say.”

His answer lingered in the air with no reply. He thought you had given him the silent treatment but then he heard soft snores coming from you. He laughed a little.

“And that’s why.” He whispered pushing your hair out of your face.

He sat on the bed next to you the whole night. He didn’t even bother sleeping, too worried about what he was going to say to you when you woke up. The only time he left was to prepare you aspirin, water and some food he knew you liked.

You turned over eyes opening as you moaned clutching your head. Logan gestured to the items he gathered earlier and you fixed yourself up. As you downed the glass of water he spoke up.

“You remember what we were talking about last night?”

He didn’t even bother beating around the bush. You paused gathering your memories it didn’t take you long and you felt like your brain had caught you up to speed. You started to remember all the things you had said and did and groaned head in hands.

“…Yeah.”

He pulled his lips into a straight line.

“Right well, I’m really not good with things like this but I’m sorry for making you feel like shit.”

You kept a straight face wanting to see where this was going but you were grateful for the apology.

“Y/n… you were the one that wanted a casual relationship. For me it was great because I didn’t have to worry about hurting anyone or getting hurt but I fell for you. How could I not?”

Your eyes widened. Logan was renowned for being unemotional so you couldn’t believe he was saying these things. You were also flattered you thought you had flaw after flaw but to Logan you were perfect.

“You didn’t want anyone to love you because you didn’t want to get hurt. I’m a terrible person. The worst version of Logan. And I got scared because I don’t want to hurt you. I also really don’t want to lose you.”

You shook your head ‘no’ at his self depreciation. He felt at ease knowing that you disagreed but he continued, “And I’m an asshole for making you feel unloveable because god y/n how could anyone not fall in love with you?”

Wow. For the first time ever Wade got something right. You smiled at him swinging your legs over his body so you were straddling him against the headboard. You leaned forward studying his face whilst the pads of your thumbs gently rubbed his rough skin.

“Logan you’re worried about hurting me but you’re the first person I’ve met that’s made me feel the safest. And I’m not going anywhere- unless you kill me or something.”

He laughed at your joke. Another reason he adored you. He leaned into the touch of your hands.“So, fuck it Lo, I love you too.”

He grabbed your face with urgency as he kissed you. You couldn’t help but smile into the kiss. God you two were so stupid. Why didn’t you just tell each-other this ages ago? You went to tell Logan what you were thinking when a bang on the wall pulled the two of you away from each other.

“Guys! That was so much better than listening to you fuck!” Wade yelled through the very thin walls of your apartment.

“Have you been listening this whole time prick?” Logan shouted back.

The two of you were met with a silence that strongly suggested that the answer was yes. You laughed leaning your head onto Logan’s shoulder.

“I’ll kill him.” He announced pointing to the wall. Logan was half joking but you could tell he was a little embarrassed. To open up to you clearly made him feel very vulnerable, it was understandable he didn’t want Wade to see that side of him. You tried to make him feel better by playing with the tufts of his hair. “Kill him later. Just stay here for a little longer.”

He nodded obeying you as he drew random patterns on your back. He felt like the luckiest guy in the world. You who looked beyond beautiful at six am in the morning, you who brought light to his life and you who loved him no matter his flaws.

He really did love you and you loved him. Feeling slightly giddy he reached for his cigars and lighter with you still buried into his shoulder.

“Baby..” you started pulling away from his shoulder.

He paused a cigar hanging from his lips. “Yeah?”

“Do I look like a clown?” You asked referring to your messy makeup that hadn’t been removed from last night.

“Yeah. Sexiest clown at the circus.” You cackled hitting his chest jokingly. He went back to his cigar when you started speaking again.

“Also.”

He quirked a brow up pausing in lighting his cigar bringing it away from his mouth. You leaned forward seductively inches away from his lips and paused.

“Don’t even think about smoking one of those fucking things in here.” You ordered smirking as you plucked the cigar from his lips placing it back on the table.

He rolled his eyes chucking the lighter next to the cigar saving it for later. He acted like he wasn’t but really he was happy. Now, he could put your hatred to cigars to a happier memory. He cupped your face. “That’s my girl.”

[cherryzlem]

My talk on the TikTok-ification of ‘I have no mouth and i must scream’

I personally have discovered ihnmaims recently and through TikTok but honestly, from what i've seen so far, the Tumblr community is way more welcoming than the TikTok community. I believe the ones i call ‘hardcore fans’ or 'gatekeepers' will try all they can to belittle the people who discovered the book/game through TikTok, like any hardcore fan does for their community when it gets famous on TikTok.

TikTok is very helpful to share media on and i have discovered many fandoms through it. But some people are so against ‘TikTok-ification’ that they can’t stand when people find medias through this platform.

When i see some people (again, mostly solely on TikTok) tell AM fans ‘ermm but you know he SA’d Helen ☝️🤓’ i cant help but think ‘yes ?? And he also committed genocide on humanity, keeps torturing the same 5 people over and over again and im very, VERY sure he did use a lot of not really nice kinds of tortures on them, but you draw the line at SA ??’

Like, AM is a horrible being of course, all of these are horrible actions but if someone, like me, likes AM its not gonna be because they think they’re a good ‘person’ (for lack of a better word), WE KNOW AM is bad, of course we do, HE’S THE BAD GUY OF THE STORY and he’s the kind of bad guy who cannot be redeemed but COME ON, WE KNOW THAT.

I love AM for his writing, for how well thought he is as a character, i do not love him for his actions. And i know some 'new gen fans' will pretend AM is not 'that bad' but you shouldn't just assume every fan who comes from TikTok is going to think like that.

Another thing i’ve seen people hate on are AM’s humanisations/personnifications fanarts when posted on TikTok. I know for a fact that these existed for a long long time on other platforms such as Tumblr but the arguments the haters pull out is that ‘errr AM hates humanity, i doubt he’d want to be human ☝️🤓’ but do you even know WHY he hates humanity ?? Have you read the book ???

The reason AM hates humanity is because he wasn’t able to express the creativity he was given by humans, he didn’t just wake up one day and decided to hate humans ?? If anything, giving AM a more humanized/personified image would be something he would want more than anything. If AM had been able to BE like a human none of the shit he did would have happened.

The only ‘argument’ im willing to listen to is when some people say that the whole point of AM’s character is that he isn’t human. But then again, are you against fun ?? In literally EVERY fandom with non-human characters artists will give them humanized designs, even if just for AU’s (take ‘The stanley parable’ for exemple), it’s not because the story is old and is an horror story that people cannot have fun with it. It’s not because it’s a deep story with meaning that people can’t do what they want with it. That is what creativity is for.

And my final point is addressing the people who hate on AM's simps. My gosh, these people have not seen the dawn of the internet if they think its weird to simp for AM.

People simp for Glados, The Narrator from tsp, horror movies murderers and more, and you're telling me that AM is the worst simping choice you could make ?? Let people have fun, let people have weird taste in fictional crushes. In other words:

Stop being allergic to fun, ffs

[she-posts-nerdy-stuff]

Okay I’ve been toying with an idea for a Six of Crows au post-Crooked Kingdom where Van Eck won for a little while now and yeah idk but I had a scene idea come to me just now so I’m gonna write it here to see what you guys think and if there’s any interest then I might add it to my list of fics to write

This feels like a weird introduction but, er, here we go:

Inej knew the moment Kaz got home. There were no longer any crowds in the house to come to attention at his entrance, or if there were then no-one had bothered to come down to the half-room and tell Inej, but she could hear his voice drifting through the vents as soon as the door upstairs banged shut behind him.

“Where’s Inej?”

“Where do you think?” Matthias’ reply came roughly, and Inej could all but picture the disapproving grimace that must be crossing his face about now.

Let him judge. She didn’t need to leave the half-room, and for as long as that was true she wouldn’t. The vents did not give her every room though, and she did miss gathering her secrets. She wondered if there was anyone else in the house, but the five of them. Five? She stopped and counted them on her fingers. Yes, five. Hopefully still five. Inej had not bothered to leave the half-room in days, and no-one had been down to see her since yesterday morning.

She heard the door click open behind her, of course, but she did not bother to look up as Dirtyhands entered the room.

“Wraith,”

“Don’t you read the papers, Kaz?” Inej asked, without turning, “The Wraith is dead,”

She stood up, hand wandering across the table for her little pot of jurda. It tasted like shit and it wasn’t nearly as strong as she wanted it to be, but it took less than a month for the price of the blossoms to surpass the height of the stars so she’d have to make do with whatever they had left.

“Inej-”

“They found her body on the steps outside the Church of Barter almost three months ago, remember?” she finally turned to face Kaz, unscrewing the lid on the little silver pot as she did so, “Killed by some mercenary called the White Blade, who still hasn’t been found by they way in case you haven’t seen the latest. I guess it’s difficult to catch a ghost,”

Difficult to catch a wraith.

“We’ve had this conversation several times, Inej-”

“And we’re going to have it again,”

Inej placed an orange jurda blossom on her tongue, then offered the open container to Kaz. It was almost empty. He waved her off.

“I thought you didn’t go in for that sort of thing,”

Inej shrugged.

“Gotta stay awake somehow, haven’t I? We’re busy,”

“We’re not on a job”

“We’re never on a job. Unless the reason you’ve bothered to grace me with your presence is a proposition?”

Kaz shook his head.

“I just wanted to tell you there’s no news,”

Inej looked away. There was never any news. And yet somehow she always expected differently.

“He’s dead, isn’t he?”

“Probably,”

Inej caught another jurda blossom between her fingers. She needed to stay awake, because if she slept she would see him. She would see all the ways she’d failed.

“It wasn’t your fault, Inej, we’re having the same conversations on repeat can’t you see-,”

“And we’ll have them again,” she shrugged, “We will have this conversation again, Kaz, because I made a mistake and you are coddling me like a child who won’t be able cope if you tell them something was their fault. Tell me it was my fault, Kaz! We both know that it’s true,”

Kaz shook his head.

“I’d rather repeat the previous,”

“Then let’s,” snapped Inej, because hell if this jurda wasn’t strong enough to keep her awake then maybe an argument would be, “Let’s repeat the goddamn conversation, Kaz, because you’re right. We have the same two conversations on repeat and do you want to know why? Because I am owning up to the mistake I made and I am trying to deal with the consequences of it, but you had no right to do what you did, do you understand me? You messed up and you need to take some damn responsibility, because if you think-”

“You always knew Tailoring Dunyasha’s body to look like yours was a possibility for your escape option,” said Kaz, calmly.

She hated how quiet his voice was, how slow and deliberate he sounded next to the and ramblings that she could not stop from stumbling out of her.

“You know that’s not what I meant,” she hissed, slamming her jurda back down on the table.

“I couldn’t have done anything to stop that,”

“You could have tried,”

“Inej-”

“Shevrati,”

Know-nothing.

She waved a hand vaguely at the door.

“Get out,”

Kaz turned to leave, then paused.

“I am sorry, Inej. They’d like to see you upstairs, you know. Nina misses you,”

“Nina can come down here then,”

“Inej… I can’t do anything for you but apologise,”

“Keep you apologies,” she snarled, and when the door had closed behind him added: “Choke on them,”

Kaz could apologise all he wanted. She would not forgive him. What right did he have to expect anything different from her than this? Did any of them? Kaz had not had to watch his parents cry, as they carried home the body of a child that wasn’t theirs. Kaz had not had to feel the ironclad grip of the person he thought he’d trusted most in the world as they held him back and told him to swallow his sobs and keep quiet. Kaz had not given up and gone limp in their arms, a mess of tears and useless prayers, as he saw his parents slip from his grasp once again and knew that he would not have the chance to tell them truth.

Kaz had also not failed the others, and did not have to feel the truth of that choking him every time he saw them. Kaz had not spent almost three months barely daring to venture out of the half room, just so he would never have to lock eyes with Jesper Fahey. There was a scream inside Inej that had been slowly building itself since the day of the auction, and if she did not find a way to release it soon it may very well eat her alive.

[piperholmes]

I wasn’t planning on writing anything about Chenford because I’m not trying to start an argument (not that I expected many will read this any way 🤣), but I have a lot of thoughts jumbled up. I think it would be helpful for me to just get them down, so I am better able to absorb what has been shared by others. I love a good discussion! Especially one centered around some form of literature.

(If you are reading this, then just let me preface with this is me really just free writing what’s going through my head. I definitely am not telling anyone else how to feel, react, or process this storyline—nor do I expect anyone to agree with my ramblings.)

For me, I think a major issue I have is with the breakup trope itself—particularly the “I’m not good enough for you, so I can’t be with you” trope. In my experience, this argument usually comes from the male character in a relationship. Romance novels are riddled with this set up; I’ve seen it in films and television plenty of times. It almost always comes from the guy. (And I acknowledge the majority of media I consume is M/F romance). The problem I have reconciling this concept is because it feels like this happens because the guy in the relationship feels comfortable and is willing to make the decision for both of them, and is often unwilling to listen to his partner’s thoughts or feelings. There is something inherently misogynistic in that, and it has never sat well with me.

I thought a lot about why Tim was upset about the 5 player trade, and while I don’t think the show did a particularly good job of explaining it, I think it boils down to the fact that Lucy made a decision about Tim’s life without talking to him about it. Even though it came from a sincere, caring place and had (for Tim at least) a positive outcome, it wasn’t right for her to make that decision on her own. If the argument is being made that Tim is walking away from their relationship because he feels (right or wrong) it’s best for Lucy, it just seems odd to me that Tim would choose to (essentially) do the same thing to Lucy after it was so upsetting to him.

Now, was Tim in a heightened emotional state? Absolutely. Does that impact a person’s reasoning? 100% But I think where this situation breaks with what has been established, is Tim’s choice to just walk away without discussion. Something that made me fall in love with Chenford in the first place was Tim’s willingness to listen to Lucy even when he was emotionally struggling. Outside Isabel’s apartment with the drugs, when she got on to him about being pissed over the report following the virus scare, his later acknowledgment over his behavior in the pilot with the Hispanic gentleman, and so on. To have Tim just walk away from her communicates one of two things: either he was willing to make the decision but wasn’t willing to deal with the consequences or he was so convinced he was right, he wasn’t interested in what Lucy would have to say. Neither are a particularly good look for Tim, and, again, why I just don’t really like this trope. (I would be saying the same thing about Lucy if she were the one doing this-in fact, I think she seriously mishandled her break up with Chris, but I definitely wasn’t emotionally invested in their relationship. So, sorry Chris; you don’t get a post 🤣).

Another aspect of the trope I find ridiculous is how it should essentially impact all relationships this character has; if Tim isn’t good enough to be with Lucy as a romantic partner then he should feel that way about being a friend to Lopez, a brother to Genny, an uncle to her kids, and so on. Otherwise, to isolate this feeling to specifically the romantic partner is just…weird? “I’m going to end our relationship because you deserve better, but just you. I’m going to keep all my other relationships.” Like, I don’t know, that just feels super icky. And, based on the preview for the next new episode, it definitely seems like Tim is going to spiral into pushing people away/isolating, but where is the line drawn? What if Tim had a kid? (And I know hypotheticals are probably not the best here, but I warned this would be meandering 🤪) Would he walk away from his own kid because he didn’t feel good enough? That definitely doesn’t make sense to me, but, again, it just highlights the pitfalls I run into with the trope itself and why I cringe when it is used. My view of Tim—and by extension Chenford—is now informed by what I see as the implications of the trope.

It’s incredibly off putting that now Tim and Lucy’s parents (oh, gosh, and I just realized, even Nolan) essentially fall into the same category. Do you think Lucy’s parents were so dismissive of her wants and hurtful because they hated her or didn’t love her? I am 100% sure it’s because they thought they were loving her. It doesn’t make it right or healthy, but I’m sure they thought they were doing what was best for Lucy. And John made the decision to end their relationship to “protect” Lucy, and I remember thinking the same thing about him that I think about Tim now. I really thought Tim was different and understood what Lucy had been through in her life, and, ultimately at this point, makes me question how I feel about Chenford overall.

I also want to say that I don’t begrudge Tim acknowledging something in him that wants to change and be better (openly encourage such self reflection and growth in fact). I’m also (pretty) sure this will ultimately lead back to then getting back together, and maybe even Tim being a better partner. I’m simply saying that using this particular trope in order to facilitate that doesn’t vibe with what I believe the show has established about Chenford, and it would have been very interesting (and, for me, preferable) to see how they could have told that story avoiding this cliche. That’s all.

Ok, if anybody made it this far, thanks for sticking with it. I’m always open and interested in differing perspectives and interpretations, and nothing I’ve said is my set-in-stone opinion, just my current opinion 😜.

[sucrealacreme]

Supe Busters - Soldier Boy x female reader

Prologue

Summary : Vought has many secrets, project W is one of them. What happens when said project turns against them? 

I don’t remember a lot of things. I'm not amnesic or anything, no, I just have blanks for certain memories. It confuses me to no end. Did I always have those powers? Or were they given to me at the late age of 25? I have no idea who I am, why I'm suddenly super abled. The only thing I know is that I'm stuck this way forever now wether I like it or not.

I don't hate my abilities. I pride myself in the fact I can control atoms. Yeah that seems like I'm overpowered but it's more complicated. I have to know the exact formula to what I want to manipulate. Now, I'm better. I can control most things like water, iron, most metals,ect… But still, in order for me to control atoms I need to know if it's like H2O or something like that. It can be annoying sometimes. Plus, if I try to split atoms to make like a nuclear explosion, I did try to see if I could do that, stupid idea but still, I have this weird electrical pulse at the back of my head. 

I have no idea what I was made for. It wasn’t for war, nor pageants or any dancing and singing competition. So I stay hidden, in my small repetitive life. Sleep, eat, work, eat, sleep. I have yet to find people with similar experiences. But I will soon, I can feel it. 

Stillwell was in her luxurious office when she saw the results of the debate about if supes belong in the military or not. The no won surprisingly. Under the huge amounts of shock and disbelief, she barely heard her phone ringing. 

“Hello?”, said Madelynn. 

“Good afternoon Miss Stillwell. I have called you today to discuss a certain topic.”

“Oh, what is it?”

 “I’M afraid we both know Madelynn.”

The woman sighed, thinking of a way to get out of this situation. She was thinking, thinking and thinking and thinking and thin-

 “Mss.Stillwell?”

“Yes, yes sorry” 

“I think the video still needs to be seen by the world, senator. I mean, people need to know who’s ruling our military and making sure we’re all safe, right?” said Stillwell in a passive aggressive tone.

“Madelynn, between you and me, your supes belong in a circus special show. Not in the defence system”

The woman suddenly had an idea. One that would change the world forever, but still an idea. 

“We'll see about that senator”, Stillwell said before hanging up

—-----------------

Fast forward 3 years

—------------------

You're now part of an organisation known to reunite what Vought likes to call “supervillains”. But truly, you're just humans who became supes one day and who can't seem to control themselves around supes. 

Since it was revealed that supes are made and not some gifted people, questions and arguments are roaming around the community. If Vought made the supes, then who made the villains? Was it Vought or some twisted knock off? Do you have compound V or something else flowing inside your veins? And if so, why did this organisation chose us? Normal citizens with no criminal background? It's not like all of you had no family or friends or anything, no, you knew a proud and married mom of 3 children who became a villain overnight. There are even some people who were pastors, nuns or imam, nursery workers whose lives are now ruined by this thing.

But still. With the villain's accusations, you still had faith. You knew by now how supes actually were. A bunch of drugged up criminals with colourful costume but with a pristine white reputation thanks to the big V. Someone had to do something about it. Civilians were dying by the dozens every day because of supes.

 “She was on the road”, “I said get out of the way”, “It was self defence”, “It had nothing to do with race or gender”. I’ve heard those sentences thousands of times now. A-train who straight went through a girl, Sun Light who burned someone with 3rd degree burns during a chase, Homelander when he lasered a random guy, Blue Hawk when he killed an innocent young black man. The list goes on and on.

 When you discovered that there were others like yourself, and how supes just wouldn't take the blame for their actions, you decided to find the most powerful, strong, and fast people like you to build a whole team.

Your name is Y/N, you control atoms and you’re what they call a supervillain.

A/n : So it's my very first story, hope y'all like it. If there are mistakes it's totally normal english isnt my first language. Thank you for reading 😊

A/n 2 : I changed a couple things, again tell me if you have any remarks😊

[tennessoui]

Hiiiiiii

So, I just read the majority of your fics and just. Wow. Wow Kit, wow. I only got into this fandom a few months ago and your fics have really gotten me involved in the prequel side of Star Wars.

So, I’ve got three questions. First, have you thought about writing a second fic for the throat fic au??? I really love how you’ve written the reverse ages for Obikin. Second, I just finished reading your road-trip au in one sitting and omfg they stress me the fuck out. How big of a train wreck will it be when Obikin confess to one another? Cause let’s be honest here, they’re terrible at communication and the amount of misunderstanding in every one of their conversations is just ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Like come on guys, communicate for once, for your sanity and ours. Third, I have also read and reread your fic “building a boat with no blueprints” and omfg that one is amazing. I love how you’ve written Obi-Wan having to deal with two different sides of Anakin (in a way, the light and the dark - did you know he spent first 23 years in the light as a Jedi and another 23 years as Vader? I read about this from another user and I was like ?!?!?!!!!!). Is there any future for that fic? How much trouble will Vader be in when Obi-Wan sees him again.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly love your fics and will continue to love everything that you post in the future! Best of luck with college (I think you said you were writing a thesis at some point???) and work!

ahh thank you!! This is so sweet of you to say, I’m so happy to hear you enjoyed my fics so much! ngl i sat on this ask a bit to reread it 🥰 I love to hear when newcomers find my fics. It’s like double serotonin: a) you like my writing and b) newcomer!!! new comer to obikin!!! hello 🥹

as for your questions, let me answer as best I can!

throat fic: I absolutely have! I am actually currently writing a second fic, told from vaderkin’s pov and starting from even before he met obi-wan (in a loose vague sort of way) my personal problem with sequels and also why I have never written one successfully (pbatmb not counted) is because I’m so caught up in copying the style of the first fic that I stall out. I really liked how in the original throat fic, there were flashbacks and present moments and the reader knew the present moments because they all started with the same sentence (“obi-wan had never seen so much blood”) and I keep being like what is anakin’s never seen so much blood!!! and like the truth is anakin’s fic does not have to follow the style of obi-wan’s but in my mind they do and that’s something I have to overcome lol

but no a throat fic sequel would definitely involve Vader being super weird about obi-wan and then go more into their future than obi-wan’s story did. like about how they make their love for each other work when Vader can’t unfall and obi-wan can’t bring himself to completely abandon the Jedi tenets his master taught him 😌

road trip au fic: I promise it gets worse before it gets better lmao and I still want to finish that fic this year. I’ve talked a lot here on tumblr about how it’ll pan out, which I’m about to rehash so skip this part if you want to be completely spoiler free: basically they get to Seattle and obi-wan tells anakin to like. Wait in the hotel room or something cause he doesn’t want anakin to see what set looks like cause that’s a dead giveaway that obi-wan was thinking of anakin when fucking set. Only of course anakin doesn’t listen. Of course he trails after him to see what this set looks like and of course he freaks when he sees set looks just like him. which all leads to a tearful argument (confession) in their hotel room where anakin is like ‘i just can’t understand why you chose him? Is it because his hair is darker?? Is it because his eyes are blue is it because he’s broader in the shoulders? what is it about me that you just can’t love even when I’ve been here, loving you, for years? I’ll change it. I’ll change anything’ and obi-wan is like what. and anakin is like. what. and obi-wan is like. what do you mean you love me??? etc etc

burn every bridge fic: ah I love that fic!! I actually wrote a continuation in my ao3 fic called “although it’s been said many times many ways”. It’s a gratuitously holiday cliched fic, but it’s a continuation of those two if you want to read it! I don’t think there’s an actual sequel there for me, but if you like my reverse age stuff you should also check out the behemoth that foolproof foolhardy became & I pray the same but my gods have changed & if you love me let it remain unnamed (trust me on the last one and also only read for the vibes)

[tater-tot-jr]

I think I should put in my two cents considering the Hazbin hotel leaked Angel Dust clip. I’ll say that this post should be one absolutely massive trigger warning. If you’re sensitive please don’t read this, I’m pretty blunt. Also I’m only talking about a small leak but SPOILERS!!!

So before I make any points I’ll start by saying that I’m not an inherent fan of vivziepop, this isn’t meat riding, it’s a genuine attempt at open conversation and discussion. I’ll also say I’m a survivor myself and while I don’t claim to speak for anyone else I have some ground to stand on here. I completely understand that people can be triggered by this type of imagery and will at least skip this particular scene or episode, I promise I’m not talking about you guys.

You wanna know who I am talking about though? The weird ass moral police I’ve been watching mobilize. It’s crazy how people are making a big deal out of this. I’ve seen three arguments and all of them are terrible in themselves and being used to justify terrible behavior.

I’ve only seen people claim three major things, this is a bad depiction of a s/a survivor and situation, this is something that’s too graphic and immoral to put in a TV show, the fact that the singing and dancing lightens the tone in a way people find distasteful. I’m going to be trying to prove why I find these arguments mostly ridiculous and unfounded.

As for argument one, s/a survivors come in all shapes and sizes and hyper sexuality happens to be an incredibly common reaction to sexual trauma. I haven’t watched episode one and two but even if I had I’d still have too small of a sample size to determine the entire tone of an incredibly messed up complex dynamic between too incredibly interesting and layered characters. It’s ridiculous to have so many assumptions and expectations of an *11 second leaked clip.*

Secondly. Creative freedom is possible the most important thing in art. If we didn’t have the freedom to put what we wanted on paper or on screen then we wouldn’t have had so much societal change recently. Just because you might find something distasteful and immoral doesn’t mean it absolutely has to be hated on and removed. It’s okay to not like things because you find them gross, it’s okay to not enjoy graphic depictions of serious subjects, it’s not okay to start internet wars over moral bullshit. It’s okay to be mad in silence sometimes, guys.

Thirdly. I kinda get this one, I don’t agree with it but I do understand the point. The idea you don’t want a serious subject framed with a sexy pop song is not inherently bad, it’s just something that makes me think you wouldn’t have liked Hazbin Hotel anyway. I actually appreciate the fact they are using the creative medium to make bold and shocking decisions but I get some people are sensitive to new things, that’s fine. Where this argument gets ridiculous is when people act like this is very out of line for a show like this. This isn’t a Saturday morning kids cartoon it’s and adult animated show about people in hell. It’s highly likely that this won’t be the worst thing we see, you either need to heed the trigger warnings at the beginning of each episode or get over it.

You’ll notice that I didn’t bring up anything about the merchandise pins or the storyboard artist, I did this because they aren’t arguments but barely related attempts at character assassinations. When you spend five minutes thinking about them critically you come to realize that there is nothing substantial to those arguments.

I’d like to finish up talking about how I think this scene is doing more good than harm. It’s important to make people uncomfortable when you’re talking about things so horrible like s/a and rape. It shouldn’t be meek and palatable for a general audience, it should upset you. I remember hearing something in a video game once that stuck with me. There was a character who said that when you’re sick you need strong medicine and that the strongest medication is very bitter.

I think episode four will be some very bitter medicine.

[meraki-yao]

Ok I saw a post before saying what if we put all of Nick’s characters in one room (I can’t find op anymore) and after the last reblog it got me thinking so here’s some weird multiverse imagination

Note that I’m only gonna use the characters I’ve seen/know about, so that’s Henry (RWRB, duh), Conor (Handsome Devil, watched the whole movie and really liked it), Timmy (The Craft: Legacy, only watched Nick’s part lol), Robert (Cinderella, the first time I actually saw Nick, I watched… enough, plus a bunch of video essays on it because I am a musical theatre person and a fairy tale person), Jeff (Bottoms, from what I can get from the trailers), and Luke (Purple Heart, which I love you Nick but I will not put myself through that, based on what I’ve heard about it and reading the synopsis on Wikipedia) if you can think of more please join in on this mess

Let’s say some weird random ass multiverse magic got all of them into a room. After the initial “Good God is that what I look like with a buzzcut?” and “Why the fuck are they British- is that kid Scottish?” and “HE’S A PRINCE? OH THAT GUY WHO’S SINGING IS A PRINCE TOO? HOW AM I A PRINCE???” then someone (honestly out of the six I listed probably Henry or … Luke?) telling everyone to settle down and introduce themselves so they can figure out their differences, what’s gonna happen?

Well...

Luke and Jeff will definitely get into a fight at some point. Maybe Robert gets unintentionally involved too

I dread to imagine the conversation/confrontation between Luke, the conservative marine and Henry, now a gay icon in a loving, committed relationship with the bisexual POC son of a democratic female president (I’ve heard some folks call Henry the rainbow prince and oh my God I love that) interacting, but Henry is still a prince and a lot stronger and willing to stand up for himself and his relationship at the end of the movie, I want him to win in that argument

Henry and Robert will definitely judge each other. Robert on Henry’s clothes and how proper he is (think about his fucking line “dancing at these things are so mannered! And formal! And we look like fools!” and oh God I hate that I can quote that line) and Henry on Robert’s eccentric, borderline-childish mannerism, and wonder how on earth is this guy a prince (I know royal protocols are strict and Henry does definitely find them stifling at times but a large part of that is just… manner and etiquette? Like look at the pained face he makes when Alex devours the cornetto and then speaks with his mouth full of ice cream, he was definitely exasperated by his choice of men at the moment)

Luke and Jeff will get annoyed at Robert spontaneously bursting into song and tell him to shut the fuck up, but Henry might find it amusing and somewhat charming (come on I absolutely don’t believe that Alex and Henry don’t sing to each other, especially when they have Taylor and Nick’s beautiful singing voice in the movie verse) and maybe Conor starts shyly strumming his guitar to Robert’s singing

Jeff trying to bully Conor and Timmy then realizing these boys are no less strong than he is and gets his ass kicked

(The next couple of points are the main reason I wrote this post lol)

Henry recognizing Conor and Timmy’s struggles, seeing bits of his younger self in these queer kids that look like him, remembering what Alex said about getting to be someone his father didn’t see growing up, thinking he can do something similar for these two boys and taking them under his wing, pulling the both of them to a corner to talk

Conor telling Henry that he doesn’t believe there’s a place in the world where he could just be himself, and Henry remembering feeling the same until a certain American boy with fucking eyelashes, black curls and dimples stormed his castle

Timmy explaining how he feels like his bisexuality isn’t being validated (Nick did amazing in that scene please go watch it) and Henry gently telling him that that’s absolutely not true and that his boyfriend is in fact, bisexual, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with liking both boys and girls

Henry and Timmy sharing their grief over their lost parents

Conor and Timmy suddenly having a man who looks like them, who's in a position of power and in a committed relationship with another man in a position of power to look up to

Henry telling them his story and how he found love and support, giving the boys hope, and realizing that this is what making history can mean

I don’t know how my brain came to this but Henry as an older brother to Conor and Timmy now lives rent-free in my head, might write more on that alone

Very intrigued about how this is gonna be expanded when Mary & George comes out and we add George Villiers to the mix, Henry will pass out

[explaininghellaverse]

Hiya! Names Vexie I go by she/they pronouns! This page is just to talk about hellaverse and Hazbin. Specifically rebutting some common very bad interpretations and bad faith takes I always see bouncing around.

I do want to be clear this is not me in anyway saying you have to like or support the show, BUT making up things or taking the worst possible bad faith argument to ‘prove’ that the show is bad is not good.

I’m also not going to be getting into controversy surrounding Vivzie herself as there is so much misinformation that it’s honestly hard to dig out what’s real and what’s not. I know some stuff was apologized for some stuff wasn’t and some stuff was blown out of proportion and a lot of it was when she was a teen. Whether you support her or not is up to you.

Personally from what I’ve seen, she’s done a lot less controversial things compared to like- a majority of major celebrities people follow so I think the pitchforks are wild. It’s also funny because Hazbin is literally about ‘bad’ people trying to get better and yet people won’t let the creator have her own character development lol.

Anyway onto to talking about the shows in general for a moment. With a quick interlude into common complaints done in a Q&A format for quick ease.

Hazbin and Helluva is just Gen Z Family Guy!

No! Family Guy is a straight comedy with no furthering plot and 50 ‘jokes’ per minute. If anything Hazbin and Helluva is Gen Z Bojack Horseman or Rick and Morty! An adult show with adult humor where there is a continuous story as well as ‘edgy’ humor!

Hazbin and Helluva are ugly!

That’s up to opinion! Personally I love the art style and think it’s one of the best drawn shows as far as adult animation though!

Eeeww why is there so much red!?

This complaint is so silly to me! Hell has been represented in popular media especially cartoons as being mostly red with red demons for so long that is just default look people think of for hell!

Eeeww why is there so much cursing and violence?

It’s an adult show about demons and the complexities of good and bad in this type of environment. It would be weird if there wasn’t cursing and violence without specific lore reason why there would be. Again this is just kind of the default interpretation of hell we’ve had for many many years!

Why are some of the characters toxic/Bad even the main ones clearly this is supporting the behavior!

This is literally just how stories work! If everyone got a long and had no toxic traits the show would be boring! With no plot!

Yeah well why is Blitzo like that he’s the main character and he’s the worst!

Main character does not mean good character! Again this more Bojack Horseman/Rick and Morty kind of story he is an awful but complicated person for the majority of it and that’s the god damn point, but seems the show is going in the direction of him trying to redeem himself. (There is a trend with people getting redeemed in these shows lol)

Why is Charlie like that she’s so boring!

This is hilarious to me people complain about her being the far reaching opposite of Blitzo! She’s just an optimistic person who wants to see the best in people! People like that exist! She’s just preppy!

People when character is mean and does bad stuff on purpose >:(

People when character is generally nice and wants the best in people >:(

It fetishizes gay men!!

The ‘straight’ couple kisses and engages in make out sessions and implied *cough* stuff on screen more often than the gay couples? Also I say ‘straight’ in quotations because Moxie and Millie are not straight but are a M/F relationship.

Fetishize implies a difference in treatment for the sole purpose of arousal. That is not what’s happening simply showing something in a sexual setting is not fetishizing you dingus.

Honestly I could put a lot here about media purity and having to be ‘the good queer’ because that’s what a lot of these criticisms boils down to. Do you want queer people in media to only hold hands ever?

It’s Transphobic!

Hi! Both me and my my partner are trans! I can extra talk about this!

No! It’s not! Where are people getting this from? Are there a lot of confirmed trans main cast characters. No as far as I know the only one is Sally Mae (Millie’s big sister). Which I might add is still more than most shows honestly haha!

What Helluva and Hazbin are good at though is there is a TON of trans background characters that just exist! No big deal made about them or nothing! If you don’t know Imps are a sexually dimorphic species specifically there horns are different depending on the sex. We see a great deal of imps that are girls with the male horns or are boys with the female horns. This a quick subtle giveaway that hey this character it trans. And honestly I love how casual it is! Even with Sally Mae the plots with her so far have nothing to do with her traness they just let her be a person! That’s amazing!

I also know some of the rhetoric comes from Angel Dust a lot of people think he’s a trans man. He is not, and if he was there would be nothing wrong with that and I stand by that. See his chest fluff makes him have a busty appearance and because of that people went off, but uh- even if he was canonically trans guess what! Trans guys can have busts! Trans guys can like pink! Trans guys can be hot and horny! That’s not transphobia!

People be like “We need more trans rep where they don’t look cis.” And then when giving an inkly that something might be interpreted that way go “HOW DARE YOU!!” Calm yourself.

There is not a lot of body shape differences!

There actually is a lot of body shape difference between characters? Just in general there is a lot more than most shows honestly. Is there a lot of fat characters in the main cast of either show no, but then again most shows don’t have any to begin with either so that’s a weird hill to die on for specifically this show.

But also to add people saying chubby/fat characters don’t exist at all in this style or don’t fit this style are also willfully ignorant- again the background characters in this show tend to be incredibly diverse.

Would I like to see more main characters be chubby, yeah absolutely but if your going to die on this hill you need to die on this hill for *every* show. And I don’t know about you but I don’t want diverse characters to be made to fit a quota, that’s weird no one really wants that.

They’re queer and in hell clearly this queerphobic!

Just say you want the show to be about straight people and move on. We are allowed to exist in fantasy shows we are allowed to be written as bad people. Again any character that can’t be described as ‘the good one’ is bombasted with being bad reputation. You can’t say you want more queer people in media and then get upset when they are not the most digestible character to the masses. That’s how you get queer characters but boring characters.

[trans-luis-serra-navarro]

Wait. People actually think Luis was on Saddlers side all the way up until we meet him? He literally has communication with Ada on his computer about how he wants away from Los Iluminados??? He offered the Amber as a bargaining chip for his safety out of desperation?????

-transluisserra

Y E S .

@fthechantry I think all going over every single detail does is just make people unnecessarily angry over something they can’t control so the tl;Dr is I THINK the root cause is because the RE wiki just REALLY doesn’t like Luis??,?,?.?.?.?. For some reason??????????? I’ve made a whole post but they have a WEIRD passive-aggression towards him and spread a LOT of misinfo (including,, THAAAAT) and I’d WAGER A GUESS that’s where most people got that idea from

LUUUUUUUCKILY I’ve only ever seen that idea used in malice on that cursed blue bird app I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole BXNEHENDJD but other than that it’s just people kinda. Confused

LIKE OKAY ignoring all the EXTREMELY PROBLEMATIC undertones aside it’s CLEARLY just glorified rage bait tryna stir up an argument BXNEBENDJDNJS buuuuuuuut heeeeeeyyy that’s juuuuuust the interneeeeeeettt!!!

But yes yes yes you’re absolutely 100000% correct at NO POINT is he with Los Illuminados willingly. Like he has that one file about being morbidly curious about what a world would look like under the Plagas’ control but he IMMEDIATELY retracts that- and including everything you said, the HEAPS of implications that he was or was going to be tortured plus the fact that he was infected w the plagas and CUT IT OUT OF HIS CHEST A N D was horrified at his fellow scientists creations,,,,, WHY would he be complacent in the destruction of his CHILDHOOD VILLAGE??? He’s a REALLY sentimental guy and he goes as far as to do the sign of the cross whenever he kills somebody!! And, again, there’s a L O T of cultural and historical implications too that other people have wrote about FAR BETTER than I have

If I had to take a crack I think it’s just people wanting a really easy to swallow ‘bad guy turns good’ story BXNSHWNSJSJ because just like chivalry nuance is dead 😔😔😔😔 /jjjjjjjjjjjjjj

[catdemontraphouse]

Through having an autism moment for one of my favorite movies and its related medias (the current Beetlejuice fixation) I came to the following conclusions:

*Beetlejuice’s favorite color is probably red, which is probably a reference to the color of the star he’s named after

*Beetlejuice enjoys fashion and could even possibly be considered a designer (yes rly) Despite being a grungy character who’s known for being smelly and gross… he is a designer/seamstress with a vested interest in fashion???

Yes I’m going to explain in horrifically unnecessary detail. (It’s the autism) and yes this draws from all the juices but tbh any one of them would work as a stand-alone example (except maybe musicaljuice but he’s critical to the sewing part and also he’s the cute one)

————————-

The argument for Beetlejuice being an amateur designer:

There’s an interview somewhere with the costume designer for the musical that says they wanted the pinstripe black and white suit to look like it had been repaired and modified over the years, because since Beetlejuice was a loner, he’d been solely responsible for making and maintaining his wardrobe. So like, he sewed his own suit by his lonesome out of fabric of some sort. Because if it was magic why the hell would it need repairs? Which suggests at least to me that he *enjoys* making clothes because why go through all that work if you can materialize anything at will? And I mean it fits so, I’m sure it wasn’t his first ever pattern making and sewing experience.

There’s also the way toonjuice refers to his suit as having “never been washed” on numerous occasions so I don’t reckon it’s something he just makes from magic and poofs into nothingness on the fly? Though toonjuice could be argued to buy his clothing since they never stated he made it and he lives in some kinda monster city idk. I’m saying that suggests physical matter somehow not like, idk a temporary illusion? If you can wash it, it has some sort of mass to it right?

Listen, why the fuck a guy who can make his own patterns and sew an entire suit would not wash it is beyond me but okay. Anyways the point is there’s a suggestion being made here by the franchise that Beetlejuice makes his own clothing in the traditional way by sewing together some sort of permanent matter. I can’t say I get the same impression from moviejuice though. There’s not much to suggest his clothing isn’t just temporary magic bullshit, save for the visible decay… ok wait maybe it is made of permanent material. 🤷‍♀️ either that or the dust, tattering and moss is a fashion choice? 🤨🤨

Ok so for this next part let’s just like, put aside the weirdness going down with the wedding thing in the movie (btw I’ve seen it numerous times and I feel like it’s def “a green card thing” in the original as well, pay attention to the characters’ behaviors/interactions throughout the film with one another and u can see what I mean.)

Beetlejuice probably designed that red wedding dress right? Because he materialized it or pulled it out of thin air or whatever? And the matching red tux, same thing. I kinda think that was the fashionista in him taking the excuse to make dramatic evening wear lol. Using Lydia as a Bratz doll dressing her up in his designs smh

There’s also how jazzed up and amused he was by turning Otho into a walking fashion faux pas, or at least I have to assume that’s what he was doing when he ripped the guys outfit apart and replaced it with something that caused Otho to scream in terror. How tf does a smelly guy in a crypt know what’s considered a style no-no unless he’s into this shit lol

Oh and uh if you’ve ever seen the cartoon he dresses himself up in all sorts of little outfits on the fly, like very frequently. If nothing else he’s coming up with the concepts for these clothes, maybe not constructing them himself in every version of the franchise but he’s at least designing the outfits in all of them or so I assume. He also gives other characters makeovers or new outfits on various occasions. It seems for Beetlejuice, the living are like breathing Barbie dolls he sees no issue with dressing up in his latest creations.

I’ll now explain the “favorite color is red” thing:

*Beetlejuice doesn’t wear many outfits in the movie, but three out of the four I can remember had red in them. The aforementioned wedding outfits were primarily red. His shirt under the coat in the guide outfit is red. 🤷‍♀️ (Adams undershirt that he copies is red but I don’t rly think it counts) Whenever he’s seen wearing a saturated, non-neutral color, it’s red.

*didn’t he crash a little red car in the model at one point?… I just watched this movie again like last month and I forget already. That car in the photo, he crashed it into a fire hydrant earlier in the movie, didn’t he? Idk maybe not

*his tombstone has his name written on it in red

*toonjuice always has red nail polish 🤷‍♀️

*idk if this counts for anything but the nightclub Juno created to lure him away from the Maitlands was entirely red idk

*and the star Betelgeuse is a red supergiant, so yeah

Bonus entry is this guy a reference to Viy or am I overthinking it???

Yeah ok I’m def overthinking it. 🤦‍♀️

That’s all i have to say. All that crap above. Bye.

[theangryjikooker]

"There were definitely things that, if I were a shipper, would give me pause."

May i ask what specifically? I’m team 50/50 when it comes to jikook, could be a thing or could not, I change my mind regularly but overall I always found that the pieces don’t exactly align for me to think 100% they’re a thing. But with AYS i find it really hard to ignore the domestic vibes they give. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly what precisely but how they gravitate around each other, the tones they use when they speak, the way they’re always sharing some sort private joke which makes some moments a bit weird to us but they understand each other immediately. I see 0 boundaries between them. I don’t know I’m at loss lol

In general, a lot of these instances have actually happened over time, and they’re really small details that shippers tend to ignore because their narratives outweigh them.

They’re usually things you don’t think twice about, but they matter if you operate under the belief that they’ve been dating for a long time and/or live together. A more recent example on AYS (which isn’t to say it’s the only one) is when JK says he doesn’t really like soft mattresses. For two people who shippers believe have been in a relationship for a while, and would’ve reasonably had to agree on a mattress at some point, that’s one of those no-brainer info you pick up on when you’ve been with your partner for that long.

A lot of the things that JM/JK currently know about each other that people use to confirm Jkk, like JK’s snoring habits, are a bit like lazy shipper fodder to me because they’ve also shared a dorm for 10 years. It’s expected they know specific things about one another, but it’s the other things that they don’t know that doesn’t make a lot of sense—but only IF you think they’ve been in a long-term relationship.

It’s the unequivocal belief that they’ve been together for a long time that doesn’t make sense and shippers’ 100% confidence that what they know is true that makes it fall apart so easily. Another anon said they didn’t think Jkk were dating but could believe they were attracted to each other—that kind of uncertainty allows for far more grace in the flaws of popular narratives, but those types of shippers are pretty rare.

Again, you have to remember that this is REAL PEOPLE we’re talking about. A lot of the reason why I’m so resistant to going full-throttle delusional on them is because it’s ethically gross to me to be so fixated on two guys I don’t know to the point that people are fantasizing about their sex lives together. It’s weird.

I have counter arguments for everything you pointed out, but I’d be here all day. Suffice to say—and this is something I’ve mentioned tons before—a lot of Jkk narratives aren’t exclusive to them at all. I’ve seen some questionable things between JK and JM with other members and, again, if you believe they’re in a relationship, you have to wonder about what it implies about Jkk that they act that way around the others.

What I will say about Jkk that’s always been sort of odd to me (although I’m willing to consider that this is just part and parcel of who they are now) is their sort of role reversal in cultural dynamics. There are clearly moments where JK is acting or playing into his identity as the youngest, and obviously JM is otherwise mature when he isn’t being playful and childish (as TH readily pointed out), but JK looking out for JM happens just a little bit more than I’ve seen it happen with other members.

(Also somewhat agree on boundaries. I said it before, but their boundaries are basically malleable.)

[moviemunchies]

I remember when this movie came out, I desperately wanted to see it. We were going through a move at the time, though, and I don’t think anyone else in the family cared. We didn’t actually go to the movies much in those days, and always as a family. I even remember while driving around with the realtor, passing a new theater in town (which isn’t there anymore, I think?) that was playing the movie, and the realtor saying he’d recently seen the movie with his family and they’d liked it.

Well, twenty-two years later, it was on Netflix, and I finally sat down and watched it.

I… uh… I didn’t like it that much.

Sorry, guys.

Spirit is a wild mustang and the leader of his herd. One day, he gets captured by humans and taken to a US Army fort. There, the Colonel repeatedly tries to have his men tame/break him. In captivity, Spirit bonds with and later escapes with a young man of the Lakota named Little Creek, who has also been captured. Little Creek also wants to tame Spirit, though he takes a much kinder tact; and Spirit finds himself drawn to Little Creek’s painted mare Rain.

There are no talking animals in this movie. Sort of. While we don’t see Spirit or any of the horses talk, there’s voiceover provided by Matt Damon which reveals what Spirit’s thinking and feeling in certain scenes. I’m going to be real with you: this did not work for me. Either have talking animals, or no dialogue from them. You can tell good stories with minimal dialogue! There are episodes of Samurai Jack which come to mind. This halfway approach just feels like you don’t feel confident in the story you’re doing, so you don’t go all the way one way or the other. 

And then there are songs which also hammer in, in case you can’t figure out what you’re supposed to get from scenes. For instance, in the scene where the Army soldiers are trying to tame and ride Spirit, and he’s bucking them all off of his back, Bryan Adams sings “Get Off My Back”. In case it wasn’t clear what’s going on here.

There’s an argument about how Disney’s Tarzan isn’t really a musical, or a good one, because it doesn’t have the characters singing (aside from “Trashing the Camp”), it has Phil Collins singing to the audience about how the characters feel. I thought that Sideways had a video on it, but I can’t find it. It’s the same problem here, though: we’re being told what to think and feel by what feels like a third party instead of the actual story and characters speaking for themselves, either by literally speaking or by us interpreting the visual language of the film.

The movie’s also weird and heavy-handed in a way that I don’t think really works? Like, yeah, colonialism and Manifest Destiny are bad and all, but I feel a bit weird when Spirit says that Rain treats Little Creek like one of her own rather than a tamer, and clearly what we’re meant to get is that Little Creek and the Lakota are in touch with nature and treat their horses better so everything’s cool.

Quiz time, kids: what would the Lakota use horses for?

Even if we say that it’s not war, or that it's war that it’s justified by colonialism, other than transport, those horses are going to be used for hunting. For killing. I do not judge for that, given that I also eat meat–but the movie clearly doesn’t want you to think about this. You’re clearly meant to think that the Lakota ride horses around to feel the wind through their hair and be free or something. That Spirit would have been hunting and killing bison, his companions in the plains, is not brought up.

The CGI in the movie hasn’t really aged well. I would move past it, in the same way I did in the Shrek review, but I’ve seen recent reviews claim that it still holds up, and it doesn’t. There are some great landscape shots, and there are some where it’s painfully obvious that one’s in a computer-generated style that doesn’t gel with the rest of the animation. And even when it works, and we get sweeping open, the wide open plains look so… empty. It reminds me a little of the animated superhero shows from way back when where the streets of NYC or Gotham were strangely empty. This is on a movie budget, though, and even the plains of the West shouldn’t look this bare. That criticism doesn’t apply to every landscape shot, there are some great ones–the canyons look great–but my point is, even when the CGI and effects work, they don’t always work.

Alright, this is really nitpicky, but it really bothered me, so here we go: Spirit’s “rattlesnake” comment. When Spirit meets the Colonel (a fictionalized and unnamed version of Custer), Matt Damon’s voice tells us that the impression he had of him was the same as when he first encountered a rattlesnake. This analogy only works on a very basic level of “unpleasant, poisonous thing that will bite you”; a rattlesnake will only bother you if you bother it, and it gives you a warning ahead of time, which is not a description of the Colonel at all. In any case, this would have worked better if we had actually seen this first time he’d come across a rattlesnake, and he had the same reaction to the snake as he did to Custer. Either way, this fell flat for me.

Aside from the songs by Bryan Adams, the score is fine. The animation on the horses is fantastic though–really, if you like horses I’m sure you’ll love looking at these gorgeous horses. Apparently the people at Dreamworks spent a lot of time studying horses to make sure they were animated well. They’re very expressive, and it makes me think again that maybe there should have been no narration at all, because you can get a lot out of their emotions. They didn’t do that, though, so instead we have narration.

More than anything, though, I just got so bored in this movie. When I was halfway through this movie, I looked at the time and wondered, “How does this go on for another forty minutes? What can possibly happen?” The answer is: Spirit gets captured by white people again and then escapes from them again.

I feel bad that I didn’t like this movie, but I didn’t. I’d go so far as to say it’s bad. Not terrible, by any means, and there are parts of it that are okay; but it’s definitely put together in a way that isn’t that good. If you love horses, you’ll probably go nuts for this movie, but otherwise you could and should skip it.

That’s two classic Dreamworks movies in a row that I didn’t like. I got Madagascar from the library; hopefully this will work out for me.

[louisisalarrie]

Hey lovely. So, I’m kinda embarrassed to ask this but I’ve seen a few posts about it. Do you think Louis is in a relationship with another guy (not Harry)? I’ve seen a few things now about Fin from Stone and the fact that he and Louis look quite comfy together. I don’t see it myself. They look like mates who support each other and for Louis is seems like business to me - when he meets him he seems to have his team with him - but just wondered what your take on it was. I feel like L has gone a long time now projecting his ‘single’ image which for someone as lovely as him seems kind of strange. I’d have thought someone would be snapping him up!

Sorry for the weird ask!!

Hiiiii don’t be embarrassed at all!!! It’s a topic floating around the solo Louies, solo harries, and larry fandom at the moment, so it’s natural to be curious about it. It’s a pretty annoying little theory though, and some larries have even been considering it to be true. So, anon, let’s have a look at this together, and as always, welcome to the show.

I’m gonna break this down a little bit so I’m not rambling and jumping all over the place.

1. No, i do not believe that Louis and Finn are together, nor have any romantic/sexual tendencies towards each other. I don’t believe that Louis is with anyone other than Harry. I am an unshakeable larry who will die on this hill hahhaa, but i will try and look at this as diplomatically as possible because it is actually causing a few waves and I’ve seen a fair bit about it from multiple parts of the fandom.

2. I don’t believe this is a stunt or seeding a solo coming out for Louis, which I’ve seen floating around. I don’t think he’d agree to that happening if it was with anyone other than Harry. And the Finn stuff doesn’t follow the same stunt timelines and PR ops that usually happen. So unless the V*nes team has had a massive shift in how they coordinate stunts and have agreed to even let Louis be a little fruity, would be a wild time. But as an industry standard, it’s not a stunt at all.

3. Louis’ body language has always been open, touchy, and basically doesn’t have many physical boundaries with the people he cares about. We’ve seen it with Liam, Niall, Zayn, Oli, other members of his band… and they’re all just his friends, right? He’s just naturally comfortable with that, always has been (except for the clear rigidness he has around stunts/women being touchy with him). His body language is different with Harry though, as we know. So I don’t think body language is a good argument for why people would think they’re together. There’s masterpost comparisons around that show his body language towards others and towards Harry explaining this all. But I’m sure you already know what I’m talking about!

4. On the topic of Oli… I think if there was a more general consensus of people finding him attractive (I’m not saying he’s not attractive, but there isn’t much hype from a majority of fans around his looks like there is Finn and Louis etc.), then these anti larry people would probably assume he’s actually dating Oli, you know what I mean? It’s like… solo Louies, who have been so against Harry and the concept of Larry… I’m seeing them be like “oh maybe Louis is queer, he’s probably dating Finn” and I’m like ????? So you have no problem accepting Louis May not be straight, but god forbid it’s with Harry. It’s such a contradiction, and they don’t even realise it.

5. So… on the topic previously on stunts and Louis’ singleness… we have to remember that BBG is still ongoing. That’s not ended, and it’s not shoved in our face as much anymore (apart from the feature in AOTV and the Christmas photos) and I think his deal is he’s not gonna have a stunt on top of that. Sure, he’s had some short lived gfs who he’s had a pap walk with, but I believe that was for him specifically to push away as far as possible from B and BBG so when it ended, he wasn’t still tied up to her and in the thick of it. I don’t imagine they’d do a long term stunt gf while that’s ongoing, because it’s overkill. His straight, party boy image is still there, but I think it’s settled a bit from what it was, and I think we’ll continue to see it settle a bit for when the coming out happens. So, yeah. That’s my take on why I don’t think he’s gonna have another long term stunt happening (I’ve made a longer post on this previously, but happy to expand more in an industry POV if you need). And someone had already snapped him up because he’s lovely, and that’s Harry!

Thanks for the chats anon. Youre always welcome in my inbox xx