#fuck anyone woobifying him

[softestepilogue]

full offense but fandoms are unbearable because y’all are unlikable. y’all are so weird and i will die on that hill.

this is like the third time i’ve been in a fandom where a white male SIDE character is heavily favored by the fandom and they start jumping through hoops, and grabbing reasons out their asses, to prove why the main poc character is a terrible person. they will also ignore any wrongdoing of the side white male character.

it’s so fucking weird and exhausting.

[buckleydiazes]

rewatching stranger things s2. i wish billy a very terrible die. 💗

[forcebookish]

lol boston gets to be a bad friend to everyone but his friends who rightfully call him out for it are worse i guess

[showtoonzfan]

Rewatching the Hazbin pilot again, and ya’ll remember how Angel Dust was actually a dick on purpose? He didn’t care about the hotel, he was a selfish candidate who was just in it for the rent, he talked shit about Charlie and Vaggie behind their backs, he was a reckless jackass who didn’t know when to read the room and that was the point. He wasn’t a good person and he especially didn’t like or trust Charlie and Vaggie, so seeing his arc of gaining friends and being compassionate towards the people he didn’t appreciate at first in episode fucking 4/6 of the first season is so wild to me.

It’s so rushed and forced, especially for a character like Angel. It was clear from the pilot that while he had some redeeming qualities, getting along with others would take time. In the show however they manage to woobify him even more than he already was. He’s just so damn sensitive, there’s a big difference between him and pilot Angel. Pilot Angel didn’t give a shit about what other people thought of him, and he owned it. Show Angel is incredibly sensitive and pissed off at every little thing, he’s so whiny and desperate for some kind of approval, which on its own isn’t bad, it’s just too fast, not just that but it’s sudden with no buildup. In episode 2 of the show, he gets sad for some reason when Charlie is complimenting Sir Pen. Then in episode 4, he suddenly cares about her and there’s no explanation to why, same goes for Nifty in episode 6. Like yeah it’s nice to see him care about others but you forget to show us WHY he cares. Viv has gone on to say before that his character involves him putting walls up and blocking people out in fear of him getting hurt, so like….what happened to that lol, cause that isn’t showcased in the show.

Husk has the same issue. This guy is supposed to be a grumpy drunk, in the pilot we know he only took the bartending job for the booze. He’s a messy guy who doesn’t like anyone, and it should have been awhile till he actually started to care about people. Instead he’s like..almost instantly friendly after episode 4. This is the same writing issues Helluva Boss had btw. Viv is so incredibly desperate for you to like her flawed/bad characters that rather than taking the time to actually show them slowly improving, she instantly paints them out to be sweet and expects you to go along with it.

[vivziepopcriticalconfessions]

"Anyone who genuinely thinks Viv is bringing light on very heavy topics in a good, representative and "educational" way is fucking stupid. The countless laughs of male SA (Moxxie, Sir Pentious, etc), the villianizing of Blitz, even though he is a victim of coercion and manipulation - the shit she pulled with Angel Dust- and then leaving him in that situation and making a joke about him getting waterboarded, the rapist fetishist animator- the protection of Valentino from hatred and the thristing and woobifying of a character whose only trait is being a fucking whiny rapist- same with Stolas-proof enough that she does not give a flying fuck. I may not be a victim of SA afaik, but I do have sexual trauma and the Angel Dust scenes were enough for me to still have intrusive thoughts about it today."

[lets-go-hurt-someone]

I love Shadowheart. She was my bae throughout my first (unfinished) Tav run. I abandoned that run because Astarion convinced me I needed to restart as Durge for him, but Shadowheart forever holds a very special place in my… well, heart.

I’ve been thinking about the contrast between them and their arcs and the way fandom interacts with them.

They both start off as characters that by D&D standards are “evil.” Shar is an evil aligned goddess, and vampires are evil aligned creatures.

However, Shadowheart isn’t evil. She disapproves of actively evil decisions and approves of kindness to animals and the helpless. She just doesn’t like it if you seem to be putting do-goodery above your search for a cure to the tadpoles. She is fine with killing the grove, but the contrast between her at the tiefling party and the goblin party shows pretty starkly how she really feels.

Astarion starts off the game evil. I will fucking fight anyone on this. He has very very good reasons to be evil, but so does Shadowheart… and she’s not. Astarion enjoys chaos, he likes murder, he likes hurting people. He thinks being “good” is weak and stupid and that might be a trauma response, but it is how he genuinely feels at that point in his story.

And yet. AND YET. For some reason, I have never seen anyone complain about making Shadowheart a Dark Justiciar. If she likes you, you actually have to encourage her to kill Nightsong. Even on my evil run, she spared Aylin if I didn’t tell her not to. You have to either not care about her or intervene to make her evil, and right up to the end where she kills her parents and Shar wipes her memory again, she is just so miserable and resigned to what she’s been influenced to be.

But people do it to get the hotter sex scene or whatever and that’s fine.

But Astarion? The man who spends the whole fucking game begging you to help him take over an evil cult and murder his “family” so he can become a living vampire as soon as he realises it might be an option? The guy who will throw a fit and leave you if you don’t either succeed in a persuasion check or help him eternally damn 7007 people— no matter how close you’ve gotten to him?

Apparently you’re an evil piece of shit if you find his “bad” ending compelling or, dare I say it, hot.

I don’t really care which ending you prefer for either character— I think the game does a great job on its own telling you what you should think and it’s fairly nuanced for both characters. I just don’t understand why Astarion has to be so woobified and his “bad” ending fans vilified as if they’re naive morons with no media literacy.

Shadowheart, the character, hates her “bad” ending way more than Astarion, the character, hates his. And fandom can’t reflect this because I don’t know…

Oh god. It’s sexism isn’t it?

[rasairui]

I'm glad more people are pointing out how racist people's reaction to the Toshiro/"Shuro" Laios thing is because oh my god. Like okay hi. I'm an autistic white passing Japanese american. And while I haven't read the whole manga through, I have read bits of their confrontation and I adored it. Like it was really painful but it was also a misunderstanding that is so so realistic and I empathized with both of them.

The stoicism and really specific social rules are something I've had to navigate with my extended family, my Hijichan specifically. I've never had fights or blow ups with him over it, or anyone else for that matter, but being an autistic person who has lots of traits very similar to Laios' and growing up trying to figure out how to effectively communicate with my family- that whole scene, despite how difficult it was to read, was really cathartic. I adored it because I understood both of them and it was exciting seeing that very specific dynamic and how it could blow up written well. Like it was that bit that made me more interested in Dungeon Meshi as a whole because I felt seen in both of them. It is such a well done conflict and I'm obsessed, I was excited to see what other autistic people thought. And then it just turned into white fans completely woobifying Laios and acting like Toshiro is some deliberately ableist aggressor and dismissing the cultural context surrounding his behavior. And needless to say I'm not fucking impressed.

Baffling how many white people talk about loving manga/anime and Japan obsessively but when Japanese Media actually comments on Japanese Culture it completely flies over their heads or is deliberately completely and utterly ignored. I really do hate some of you and I will defend Toshiro Nakamoto until the day I die.

[tora-the-cat]

An interesting little fun thing with team 7 is that you assume that Sakura's gonna, like, woobify and simplify Sasuke by putting him on a pedastal,cause her goal is centered around him and shes a 12 y/o fangirl so like of course her understanding of him is skewed cause she doesnt see him as a person, just an object of affection, right? She's can't get Sasuke, can't imprint on and/or traumabond with him like Naruto and Kakashi do. They don't see him with rose tinted glasses, because they've lived through their own Horrors and empathize with Sasuke's experience.

......right?

WRONG lmao!! They have too many ghosts!! Naruto's single-minded codependent ass won't get out of his own way long enough to see Sasuke for who he actually is, only able to empathize with the parts of his trauma Naruto relates to and not really capable of understanding him outside of the context of himself (because Sasuke is. His other half). And Kakashi is far too jaded to be fair to him!! He can't decide if Sasuke is gonna end up as a mini-him or a mini-Obito or maybe a mini-Itachi, but either way he ALSO is too traumatized to see Sasuke AS SASUKE.

meanehile SAKURA'S autistic ass may have dogshit empathy, but you know what she does have? A special interest in sasuke. Nothing better to do then give herself a degree in Uchihaisms. She can write character studies about him. she can read his soul. Whenever she says something about him she is right. Every fucking time! She is RIGHT!!!!

'sasuke would NOT compliment me this directly or explicitly express worry unprompted, especially if it gets in the way of his goals' correct.

'Sasuke shouldn't hide that curse on his neck its not healthy BUT if I tell anyone about it he'll never trust me again, which might be even more dangerous for him then the curse mark. Like he can probably handle the curse mark but no one else can stop him from ripping peoples arms off.' correct.

Speaking of! 'Sasuke would not hurt me even when he seems to be...possessed? whatever the only way to knock him out of it is to present myself as Alive and thus something to be protected rather then something to be avenged, because he gets really stuck in his own head about revenge' CORRECT

'hey so um. like. Sasuke's gonna leave Konoha. I'm not sure anything can stop him at this point and honestly I'm kinda starting to doubt anything should, so the only thing I could possibly do to help him at this point is ALSO defect.' CORRECT!!!!

[absolutelynotsanebaby]

do you have any major ninjago fandom pet peeves? or am i just being overly weird for having some?

No youre not weird I have many too lol

- designs for the main ninja where they're all either white or pale. Its sort of sus to me when people make kai tan(ish) but not nya. Like, why? (<- the answer is colorism. Obviously the prettly girl is pale but the angry guy is tan(ish) ). Also hate when the only tan or darkskinned one is Cole (and hes usually sort of grey).

- 'girlboss' nya where shes dumbed down to 'strong woman character' which is a thiny vieled 'shes the mom of the group' fanonization ngl. Nya is strong and capable, angry and opinionated but none of that is actually captured in the baseless trope applied to her. I see it a lot in fanon Jaya and it bugs the shit out of me.

- misako slander/hate, its literally just misogny. Barely anyone talks about Garmadon the same way.

- lava shippers who feel the need to bring up lava on geode posts. Or lava shippers who hate on geode or geo in general I find incredibly annoying. Another thing is when some of them act like lava was Ever gonna be canon like. Broski, when and where did you find evidence of that?

- fanon jay like. Entirely.

- on a similar note, fanon bruise. I hate haaate the yaoi-topification of Cole lol. I find bruise's dynamic, both platonic or romantic, fancinating and its frustrating to see them so dumbed down.

- big hater of the idea that Jay has to short or cole has to be tall or this or that.

- wu haters die by my blade. Wu's tries so fucking hard and is flawed but apparently people can't view a character in full. Whatever.

- I incredibly dislike woobified morro. Espicially when people make his actions seem less bad or less his choice in a mock way to make him seem more "redeemable." I find it funny that people can't seem to accept that their fav is a bad person and/or did bad things. Recongizing that doesn't make him any less "worthy" of redemption. That's not really how redemption works, at least in my mind.

Ok thats all I can think of rn so hating session over

[daydreamerwonderkid]

Tim centric fics are fucking wild to me because it's a constant teeter totter between "woobified Timmy who has never known love and would somebody just take care of this poor little boy who never did anything wrong" and "If someone so much as gently suggests he should take a nap, Tim will go completely feral and bite the hand off of literally anyone who lifts a finger to help him."

[rubydubydoo122]

What would be things the batkids would have grievances with Alfred over? It's always about Bruce but the world doesn't revolve around him only, so let's look at another guardian/grandfatherly figure.

I feel like they all would be upset with Alfred for letting Bruce get away with most of the shit he does to them. Like how Alfred's supposed to be the one holding Bruce accountable, but he doesn't. And here's the list from least angry at Alfred to most angry at Alfred

Damian. I don't think Damian realizes how much of Bruce's behavior stems from Alfred being a pushover, and he worships both of them too much to actually see it.

Dick. In those early days, Alfred was the one there for him in a house that was too big, too still, and too empty. He probably started getting angry at Alfred during his early 20s, but then it was just Dick, Damian, and Alfred, and Dick kind of became Bruce, so he had times where he resented him, but he "grew out" of it

Jason. And I think he's only the tiniest bit behind Dick because he's almost pretty much in the same boat. Alfred was the only person there in a house that was too big, and when everything was too much, and compared to this Billionaire, Alfred seemed human to Jason. He probably took comfort in Alfred before he took comfort in Bruce. And then Alfred was the one who suggested Jason should quit Robin. And, maybe for a hot second there, (and I mean, a singular passing thought then never again) he blamed Alfred for his death, but Jason also has a plethora of parental issues, so he wouldn't blame Alfred. And this is assuming Jason is completely unaware of the way Alfred low key Shat on Jason's grave so that Bruce would feel less guilty, or whatever.

Then there's Cass. She's just way too good at reading people to not see the way Alfred's pushover tendencies are effecting the 'family' negatively. She wants to yell at Alfred to "Put his foot down." But she knows he won't, so she doesn't. And In a sense, she might just be the same as Alfred.

Then there's a gap, and Duke. He didn't really know Alfred for that long, if you really think about it. Maybe a year, tops? And the reason he's smack dab in the middle is because sometimes, Bruce will do something and Duke will be like "That... is kinda messed up. Who raised you?" and then he'll take it back bc he'll realize he's speaking ill of the dead.

Tim. I hate woobifying him, but Idk, Alfred was the one who gave Tim Robin. Alfred was the one who gave Damian Robin, and I feel like, Tim, Looking back would think "What the actual fuck. What I was doing as a teenager should've been Alfred's job as Bruce's Guardian" Maybe not currently, but after some time. Maybe when he's in his 20s or has his own kids or something.

Stephanie Brown. She's the Family Friend. She has a slightly outside perspective to all of this, and she's great at puzzles. She Died for Bruce's cause and that didn't stop ANYTHING. She's constantly listening to when any of the batclan members are ranting about Bruce, and his poor coping skills and realizes that it's all just a fucking cycle and it started from Alfred. Alfred was confused on the line of professional and parent and Parented Bruce by being a Butler. Which wasn't what Bruce needed at an 8/9/10 year old who just lost his parents. And that's why Bruce doesn't know how to Parent any of his children without making them some form of a hero. Because Bruce grew up with a boundary of professionalism separating him from any real parenting, and he needs that boundary while parenting his kids. Obviously Bruce has his moments, but those are probably from when he had REAL parents.

Steph tried explaining it to Duke once, and he understood PERFECTLY, but then Duke said not to repeat this to anyone else because they worship the ground Alfred walks on.

[bangtannism]

https://www.tumblr.com/bangtannism/758974465001553920/jungkook-needs-jimin-i-dont-know-what-they-are?source=share

But man couldn't even ask jm for one single time if jm's okay? When jm kept saying he's feeling sick?

yknow i was tempted to just delete this but we are not going to sit here and act like jk doesnt fucking care about jm when it has been proven time and time and time again that he does. the episodes are heavily edited and we do not know every conversation they had, but anons like you are great at taking what little content we get and assuming that is the entirety of the tannies lives. but even if he didnt ask, it's not a crime? it doesn't mean he doesn't give a shit? when i have an upset stomach, i don't expect everyone who loves me to sit and hold my hand through it. sometimes, stomachs get upset and you just gotta wait it out. it clearly wasnt too serious, since jm started playing around after his nap.

and when it was something longer lasting (connecticut), who was the one taking care of jm? offering him medicine, telling him to make a wish at the rock tower he built, cooking for him, letting him sleep so much despite the fact they were supposed to be filming a show?

i'm so fucking tired of yall jm solos picking apart every single thing jk does to put a negative spin on it and in turn both woobifying jm and disregarding jm's feelings toward the people he is close to. you think jm wants to spend time around someone who doesn't care about him? do you think he is stupid or just that desperate for attention? 🙄 get so fucking for real. jk adores jm, jm knows this, and they are happily serving in the military together at this moment while you bitch and complain at anyone who will listen because you are so wrapped up in your own bullshit that you think you know what and who is better for jm than jm himself. get a god damned life.

[chainsawcorazon]

my favorite thing about about the 90's young justice solos is that they catered towards three distinct audiences, and yet after all these years, the one that would have been LEAST likely to be projected into nowadays is now the MOST woobified out of the three.

tim: a story for white kids, by a white guy who hates poor people, and didn't really take itself OUT of that white-male-projective-state even after all these years. bonus note, now the gays can project into tim cuz timbo's finally out the closet, and chuck dixon wants to kill himself over it, but it's ok bc we like tim even tho we don't like chuck.

bart: a story initially about a time-displaced refugee whose narrative heavily mirrored a refugee's forced assimilation into a new culture WHILE also appealing to the adhd/autism crowd, which the writer was absolutely OK with because bart's story can be accepted by BOTH the refugee narrative enjoyers and the adhd/autism crowds without impinging on his narrative poignancy, plus mark waid actually loved bart and he loves that WE love bart. inshallah he will write his boy again.

kon: a story about teenagers who are being neglected, and so he's acting out every which way and partying it up because he was meant to appeal to the 90's teenage rage and show how easy it is for kids to get caught up with predators like knockout and tana because of the lack of structure and discipline in their lives, but when geoff decided to ignore nearly ten years of creator-run canon, we had to deal with his timkonnie dreams, and now geoff's leaving, so now we gotta deal with the yja nonsense and some lady's self-insert dreams going into a character whose writer is not only still alive, but actively on the bi!kon train but from the 90's crackhead era perspective. and HE'S the one most woobified.

it's absolutely facinating cuz you'd think kon would be the most hated out of the three bc of his issues with consent and the unhealthy ways he frames relationships, but instead it's BART who people hate the most! bart's being infantalized and discounted and used at a third-man-ship-prop, while tim's being rewarded for being an emotionally strugglesome white man who just came out of the closet, and it's not nearly as bad as how bart's getting his ass beat in the fandumb, but poor tim can't even date his high school homie in peace without someone crying about how he 'deserved' kon instead.

to think that the character with that many issues would be the MOST woobified character in the yj cast is insane, bc what are you even woobifying? his depersonalization? his lack of boundaries with women? his inability to read a room? the fact that nobody loves nor cares about him enough to protect him from the horrors of the world? the fact that he was a stellar example of a CSA survivor who didn't even KNOW he was a victim of CSA, and thus wasn't really able to understand the ramifications of his inappropriate behavior until years later when he forced himself into a masculine fold so he didn't fall into the trap of being like 'the old him' again?

kon's story was a story of self-hatred come to life in the most fantastical ways. he thinks it's ok to publicly date a grown woman other people are judging for dating a dumbass minor. he didn't know what a mother's love was, and had to witness it first hand with nanaue's mother. he thinks an emotionally unavailable and distant clone handler is his dad bc he doesn't KNOW anyone else who can fit into that mold. he thinks roxy's his sister but still has no problem sexualizing her in his head bc he thinks it's ok to find your older sister hot.

kon was the DEFINITION of the kids are not alright, nope, not at all, hell to the fuck no. geoff was the single biggest driver in stripping all the nuance from his character post-graduation day, but he not even here no more... what's the excuse in continuing to strip away at what makes kon, kon? i know dc's afraid to admit lois and clark looked the other way when a teenaged clone was dating an adult woman, but you woulda thought he woulda been a turnoff to the fandumb as well. he aint tho, so he suffers for it accordingly.

i can only hope karl kesel lands another contract after these new movies flop, so we can finally get a REAL follow-up to the 1994 solo. you could never make me hate that man's insane writing. justice for 1994 kon. if dc still had good writers, we coulda had a multi-year healing arc exposing how horrifying superheroing really is for people, and why clones deserve something to the equivalent of human rights. instead, he's doin fuckall and kissin m'gann. no shade to m'gann, she absolutely deserves more than the current caricature.

[sciderman]

this might be an unpopular opinion but actually i think that in homecoming mcu peter was very well characterized? i thought he brought the sass and was very headstrong and i think that's why that film is my favorite out of his, he was throwing himself into situations without deliberation with just a very restless and agitated feel to him at points, and actively driving the plot forward in a way that to me felt very baby peter. i think that fanon (like irondad, woobifying him in fics etc) has contributed to a perception of him that isn't super strong in actual canon. i also think the writers would benefit from reading your tags on that post lol, cause mcu spidey is at his best when HIS choices are actively driving the plot, and at its weakest when hes reacting to things happening to him like in far from home. there's potential for spidey 4, there's a lot of room for angry, broken, but hopeful peter, and i'm sure the mcu will disappoint me but i am a fool and live in hope :')

i guess you have some kind of a point there, and i can see the point you're making - but – i think where it doesn't work is that we never actually get an inkling as to why peter's restless and agitated. why he cares so much about being a hero. why he wants to. when like, in civil war he actually kind of didn't want to get involved with the avengers. he was blackmailed into it. so why that 180?

no consistency in the mcu. no consistency at all. i hear that writers don't even consult each other between movies, and i believe it ,, considering how much whiplash i consistently get from mcu character motivations. (constantly thinking of civil war where hawkeye tells scott "you might go to jail for this", and scott says "yeah well what else is new" nonchalantly, like he didn't just fucking have an entire movie where is whole motivation was "i do not want to go to jail because i want to be with my daughter." what the fuck?? what the fuck mcu??? what the fuck?????????? the mcu does this with literally every character too. tony destroying all his armor in one movie and the next one making ARMOR FOR THE WORLD??????????????? 180s just across the board. we're gonna do a thing and then 3 seconds later we're gonna do the exact opposite thing. i hate the mcu.)

in the comics we entirely understand why peter is agitated and restless. we've seen it. we see his justification literally on the front page of his first appearance in amazing fantasy #15.

the world mocked timid teenager peter parker. so peter wants the world to see the awesome might of spider-man. there you go. that's why he put on the stupid tights. we get it. two sentences and we get the whole schtick.

we pointedly do NOT get to see what kind of kid mcu peter parker was before the spider-bite. we never get to know. we do not know what changed. he doesn't even talk about it. not even freaking once. he never laments that he used to be weak. he never expresses the sentiment that his life has improved now that he has powers, or even what having powers really means to him. just a "i've got powers now. guess i have to become a hero. i guess." there's no motivation for him at ALL. power doesn't mean a thing to him. he's just some kid who has powers i guess and who else is kind of super? uh? tony stark?? yeah okay i wanna be tony stark i guess.

IT ALL MEAAAANS nothing!! ! ! ! ! ! nothing fucking at all!!!!!! it's actually SO SO missing the point of spider-man entirely to not pay any mention at all to who peter parker was before the spider-bite. that lives in him every day. it's an ANXIETY that lives in him every day of his life. it's something really important for you to know about peter. in every issue spider-man is IN, this anxiety manifests in some kind of way, in everything he does.

we never see what's changed for him, how it affects his dynamic with his friends, with aunt may, with anyone. it's barely a source of tension for him because actually, his secret identity is thrown around like it's a joke. it baffles my mind how much the mcu misses the mark with spider-man, actually. whenever i think about mcu spider-man i discover some new way they misunderstood spider-man. i didn't even think about how much is missing from just the omission of pre-spider-bite peter parker. it's such a vital part of spider-man's motivation that's been wiped. his motivation in the mcu is so, so vague. his motivation is the same as any kid who has seen an iron man movie. "hey that guy can fly. i want to fly too. and i want to buy iron man action figures and i want a cool suit too." uhh?? yeah?? what kid doesn't?? lame. lame and weak. mcu peter parker doesn't have a unique personality trait to differentiate him from any 10 year old who's watching these movies. weak and lame.

[secret-engima]

I have tea and a soap box let's spill something shall we (Wakfu Rant)

*sips tea*

I've been in this fandom for like. A month? more? Depends on how long it took me to work through the show. I've not actually interacted with the *fandom* at all, just the canon stuff and my own spiralling insanity. But while I'm here I might as well make enemies /s. Therefore:

Oropo is a much more compelling character deserving of redemption than Qilby. Qilby:

Had a loving literal goddess mom and a bunch of loving siblings.

A beautiful planet and thriving culture he could go anywhere and do anything on

The capability of going into space without any technological aids once he got bored of the Eliatrope world and started to suffer the effects of his eidietic memory thing. We know for a fact that Eliatropes and their dragon sibs literally don't need so much as a helmet to vibe in space, they could have gone out there any time, explored the cosmos a bit, found cool things as souvenirs and brought them back to show off to his siblings.

While this is very clumsily and blatantly retconned in s4, in s2 Qilby is very open and blatant about the fact he willingly picked a fight with Orgonax with the INTENTION of forcing his entire people to flee their world into space just so he would have more company than Shinonome. An entire world and no doubt thousands of Eliatropes and who knows what pieces of their history and culture were lost because this man, and I remind you again that s2 Qilby taunts Yugo with this fact no matter how s4 woobified him, wanted to FORCE his people to join him in space rather than just let manning the fuck up and going out there with his sister on a buddy roadtrip.

Seems very convinced that some or all of his specimens in his lab are the last of their kinds, which at best means he intentionally targeted dying species on alien worlds to capture and put into jars for literal eternity which is all kinds of animal cruelty (assuming some of them aren't sentient!!) and at worst means he is the reason they are the last of their kind because Qilby wanted his souvenir to be Unique.

when his people finally found a new world to settle on and be happy and try to reclaim their culture, he instigated a SECOND GENOCIDE, this one taking out not only their home world but literally every. living. adult Eliatrope (and dragon considering the propensity for dragons to have Eliatrope twins as stated in s1). Literally thousands if not millions of people are dead, thousands of children are orphaned and left trapped in a realm where they cannot *grow up*, the vast majority of his own siblings are dead and oh look at that. He's stuck in sensory deprivation hell. Man. If only there was some course of action he could have taken that would not have led to him fighting his own siblings, losing his arm, and getting stuck in the white void of horribleness. Man this truly is a tragedy of fate. Definitely no way he could have gone back into space without the Zinit. Definitely could not have just hopped on Shinonome's back with a packed lunch and gone out there on his own knowing he would have a loving family to come back to whenever he got lonely. Man.

upon breaking out of the White Void Of Horrible he is even more mentally unstable (and yes I know he's mentally ill during the above events, that does not excuse his actions when he is aware enough of them to gloat about them to yugo later) and immediately decides that he's going to kill this entire world in order to leave and he's going to take his siblings and the few surviving eliatrope kids with him by force.

has ANYONE other than me noticed the incredibly dark and horrific implications of him apparently planning to kill Phaerys and Yugo (and Adamai likely). Yugo says he couldn't go through with it and I'll believe that, but the fact he apparently consciously PLANNED it. Am I the only one who saw that scene and went "if he kills them, then they go back to the dofus and hatch without any memories, which means he will be able to RAISE AND GROOM THEM in the Zinit to believe that whatever Qilby says is right and do whatever he wants, like galavant in space for eternity".

S4 can retcon as much as it likes to make the Orgonax thing an accident and Qilby a mama's boy (which I freely admit was funny and I would have enjoyed in any other villain), but going off s2 and moving into s3 I REALLY cannot see why people like him more and hate Oropo.

And even if we DO count s4's retcon that made the first incident an accident the SECOND WAS STILL DAMN WELL INTENTIONAL. And Qilby is still responsible for the death of thousands twiceover on top of the death of an entire culture. All of Eliatrope history, culture, science, medicine, *music*, *STORIES*, it's all gone save for whatever the Emrub kids happen to remember (and the kids will not remember it accurately because they are children). All their architecture is destroyed, all their native cuisine is GONE and so are the ingredients to make them. All because Qilby wanted to force them into space WHEN THEY DID NOT WANT TO GO and HE COULD HAVE GONE ON HIS OWN AT ANY POINT WITH SHINONOME.

Speaking of Oropo! Let's look at what we know about him for comparison!

Was created by accident and is intimately aware of it.

was thrown back in time and lived most if not all of his life perpetually terrified of changing history or accidentally erasing himself and his siblings

Not only saw all of his siblings die off over the years but had their energy absorb into him in something that is no doubt extremely traumatizing to undergo. if any of you have watched the Oropo-centric ova, man for a mastermind manipulator he sure do look like he wanna cry and throw up and curl in a little ball when two of his siblings die in front of him and he is forced to assimilate their life energy.

"Supposedly" staged several key villain creation events which I personally press x to doubt because it's so clunky when mixed in with s1 and s2 lore BUT if we graciously assume that he did then gee. can't possibly be a factor of the third bullet point and his terror of erasing the timeline with his own existence can it? Can't possibly be Oropo falling into Every Heroic Time Travel Trope Ever where the hero ensures a certain event happens in order to maintain the timeline in key points hm? Even if it's a bad idea?

Has been successfully and lovingly married? partnered? mated? to a badass half-dragon wife for literal centuries and every time they are on screen together before the Dramatic Amalia Bullshit they are loving and balanced and give off so many Old Married Vibes and then THEY RESUME that dynamic for the few seconds on screen they have before they both die.

Adopts and raises hundreds of orphaned demigods who apparently were more than happy to live in the Tower and follow him throughout their lives, and in fact show no sign of abuse or manipulation in their behavior until the finale when Anakam decides it's time for everyone to think Oropo is horrible

is actively DYING when we meet him and not just dying but faced with the prospect that there is no happy ending for him. He will never see his loved ones in the afterlife, he will never know peace, he will be assimilated by his creator Yugo and at *best* be essentially digested into raw wakfu and at *worst* be a ghost stuck in the head of a man he has extremely complicated and negative feelings about for the above time travel and sibling trauma.

Adamai EXPLICITLY MENTIONS THAT OROPO IN S3 IS ACTING OUT OF CHARACTER when he goes into his more Blatant Villain Moments. Which sure, could be "the mask" falling to reveal someone "oooo evil" but isn't it far more likely he's acting out of character because he's dying and having a crisis about it.

canonically hates violence, but was so desperate to ensure his loved ones would have a better world he was willing to resort to turning himself into a suicide bomber to "create a better world". Was this a good idea? no. but ppl apparently love to point out how Qilby is mentally unstable to justify his behavior soooooo like. Why is that excuse not applicable to the guy who's literally spent his entire life being uncertain he's even real and has a right to exist but is real enough to DIE and never see the people he loves again and therefor go off the rails in his attempts to make something better for them?

in s4, the same season that makes Qilby sympathetic so if you count that as canon then by gods you better count the Oropo moments as canon, Oropo gives Yugo a reprieve from the literal life sucking torture he's in, helps him get a new outfit, and lets Bouillon play fight him (because again, Oropo hates Doing Violence) to keep him distracted and SANE while his body is being horribly tortured. In the end Yugo even confirms they are real and a part of him which is literally all Oropo wanted in his dying speech if you rewatch the finale and boil down his fury to its bullet points (he is a clone without a future and literally says stuff along the lines of just wanting to be REAL and wanting Yugo to ACKNOWLEDGE him).

For a supposed mastermind villain who wanted Yugo dead Yugo sure does seem Super Duper Alive in the months/two years/whatever timeline Ankama is using this hot second since he created the clones and was therefore *no longer necessary* for Oropo to keep alive.

At the end of the day Qilby actively chose HIMSELF over the wellbeing of others and got multiple siblings killed as well as two worlds and an entire civilization/culture wiped out. OROPO set himself on a path of similar destruction and then ACTIVELY TURNED BACK because he was faced with the choice of his ambitions or HIS LOVED ONES and he PRIORITIZED THEIR LIVES OVER HIS OWN AND HIS OWN GOALS where as Qilby not only did not do that, he didn't do it TWICE. TWICE. Oropo's death count is miniscule and he chose to sacrifice himself rather than lose the people he was doing this for and Echo knew he would make that choice, which means she also knew his love of them was genuine. You cannot compare that to Qilby and tell me Qilby is in any way better.

Okay rant over I'm going back to planning my wakfu canon rewrite and my various Echo/Oropo oneshots thank you and good day.

[prodigal-explorer]

my thoughts watching roman ranking disney/pixar movies as a certified roman expert

SPOILERS BELOW!!

ROMAN CANNOT HAVE A VIDEO TO HIMSELFFFF and thomas literally expresses that roman isn't enough by himself??? i'm gonna sob!

also how dare roman put bambi as d tier that movie is so good but i also might be biased cuz i love deers so much

so far roman's characterization is pretty great. i was scared thomas was gonna fuck him up but nope!! it's really good!!

he's just having a good time

he's such a theatre kid it's the best thing ever.

"no only i can sing" BAHAHAHA ROMANNN

the flashback to dark side of disney was violent

YESSS I FUCKING LOVE LITTLE MERMAIDDD i actually played ariel onstage!!

ROMAN IS SUCH A CUTIE OMG

why doesn't anyone woobify roman i don't get it LMAO as much as i hate woobifying characters he's just so...

the way roman is constantly just like "dude i'm the only one who can sing" HAHAHA HES SO FUNNY

HAHAH THE RHYTHM REDUX WITH STITCH

okay putting brother bear in c tier is a crime that movie is easily an a.

hmm...i wonder if roman struggles so much with transformations because of janus' disguises...

i honestly think tangled as a whole is extremely overrated. it's just so mid.

YESSS ROMAN LOVES MOANA. i don't even care that it didn't make it into s tier because roman defended it. moana is actually one of the best disney movies of all time.

I LOVE HOW ROMAN IS DEFENDING ALL MY FAVORITES HES SO ME

YESS FINDING NEMOOOO i actually played nemo onstage!!

the incredibles is soooo good

GOD I LOVE WALL-E but it did terrify me immensely as a kid

wow i didn't know that inside out inspired tss! i honestly thought it was just a coincidence LMAO

OMG YESS COCO

wait incredibles two got hate??

LOL I JUST KNEWWW roman would love luca

YESSS ROMAN LIKES TURNING RED I LOVE TURNING RED and it gets way too much hate because people hate teenage girls and people hate asians.

OOO I LOVE ELEMENTAL

i haven't seen inside out two yet either! but i've heard it was good!

overall this video was AMAZING!!! great job thomas and i'm so happy you didn't butcher roman's character!! his character is so solid and amazing!!!