#proshipping discussion

[the-siberian-wolf]

Sure, 'fiction doesn't affect reality' but AO3 stans can't stop talking about how many kinks they discovered they had thanks to fanfiction. Or how it affected and influenced them into having a kink they didn't have previously.

Well, it looks like fiction does affect reality, after all.

[icejinlov3r]

Kami, if you’re a DB fan, don’t go on Twitter right now. It’s a total cluster fuck - I’m seriously *this* close to deleting my Twitter account. (Long and possibly controversial rant down below. Read at your own risk)

I normally don’t share petty fandom drama like this, but this has genuinely gotten to me, and I need a safe place to unload….and this platform is the *only* safe space on social media I seem to have.

So, some of you may know. Some may not. But a DB artist on Twitter was called out as a p*do and enjoyer of SA. This is because they’re a proshipper. They have controversial ships and content they’ve made.

Now, I don’t care for this artist. As in, I feel neutral about them. I never followed them because they’d make art of a few shippings I didn’t like. Whatever. Scroll and move on. They do their thing, I’ll do mine.

But recently a comic they made featuring explicit SA, and art they made depicting an aged up minor with an adult, has brought up several issues amongst the fandom. Now I’ve seen this happen in several fandoms, to several artists. I dunno for sure it’s true. The internet likes to blow things up, but a lot of the time these “callouts” hold some form of truth. I choose to scroll on, go on with my day. Cause I don’t have all the concrete facts to have a confirmed opinion.

….but here’s what bothers me.

I have a few moots on Twitter. No one big, but (seemingly) good people who make great content, and I sometimes like to comment on their posts. Some that I just silently enjoy their art. Almost all of them seem like cool, chill, kind people.

And suddenly - all those moots are divided.

A handful of them (and several others) are furious and disgusted with this proshipper artist. They’re constantly calling out every little thing this artist says in response, and saying any friends/followers of this artist should straight up die or go to hell, etc. They’re furious that SA and minor/adult relationships are being “normalized”, and think this content is horrendous, whether it’s fictional or not.

And the other half fiercely defend this artist. They defend their right to be creative and expressive. They defend their right to ship who they want, problematic or not, and use the defense “if you don’t like it, move on”. They argue that just cause this artist makes fictional controversial art, that doesn’t mean they enjoy these things in real life. And they claim no one should be kink shamed. That’s kinda the whole point of proshipping. To accept the good, the bad, and the ugly. Even if it’s something one doesn’t exactly agree with or like.

So….then that leaves me.

I’m not a proshipper. I don’t like SA, or minor/adult ships, incest, r*pe, etc - you get the idea. I don’t enjoy these things, and actively avoid it. But I do see it all the time across the internet, and more often than not just scroll past it. My motto has always kinda been “you don’t like it, walk away”. I don’t attack anyone because of content I don’t like.

So how do I view this situation? Well….I’m very conflicted. Because I do agree that this problematic content shouldn’t be normalized or fetishized, fictional or not. If you wouldn’t like it in the real world, why would you like it in fiction? But, again, I try not to judge other people’s preferences/kinks/etc. That’s where the confliction comes in. Because I also believe in the artist’s right to create whatever they want, or for fans to ship whoever they want. I don’t want to shame someone and accuse them of being something they’re not. If I don’t like it, I’ll move on.

I wanna say some of this stuff on Twitter. I want to share my thoughts with the few friends I have on there….but I get worried about being called out or shunned or something else. Half the fans are being called jerks and bratty children for being small minded, while the other half are getting death threats, being called perverts/p*dos, and other terrible things. And again, I have friends/moots on *both* sides (especially those defending the artist). So no matter who I defend, the other side will be offended.

So I just….scroll through. Reading all the drama while good people on both sides tear each other apart.

And I swear to fucking Kami, this drama ONLY happens on Twitter! This is exactly why I don’t post content on there anymore! This is why I put off getting an account for so long! I’m done! I’m so done with it all! Now I don’t even know which people on Twitter are good people or just creeps!

….*sigh*

I guess that’s why I like my little group here on Tumblr. Everyone is nice. There’s no drama. No call outs. You guys are all so kind and supportive of not just me, but to each other. I see you comment on each others posts, accept drawing requests, exchange theories and thoughts. It’s amazing to see.

Thank you for being my friends and moots.

If you wanna share your thoughts on this, you can. I’m not going to judge - apparently I can’t decide what’s right or wrong here. If not, that’s fine too. I just needed a place to unload all this bullshit. Anyway, I may or may not delete my Twitter. I’ll wait for awhile and see if the drama dies down. But I will be inactive on there for the time being.

I’m just gonna stay here in my safe home of Tumblr.

If any of my friends/moots from Twitter read this, know that I don’t judge you. Regardless of which side you’re on. Because this is a huge grey area I have no right to judge. Feel however you’d like towards me.

[the-siberian-wolf]

A proshipper tried to argue porn addiction doesn't exist and their own argument was proving it exists. But they kept denying it, it was sad how little reading comprehension they had that they didn't realize.

I actually can't believe the lengths people will go to deny that porn addiction is real, the cumbrained morons in the notes on that post are insane. "there's no addictive substance involved" have you never seen the people who sit at slot machines for days on end, some until they literally piss themselves, who are in thousands of dollars of debt? but there's no addictive substance involved so it's not an addiction uhhh ummm they just really like it I guess no addiction here it's totally harmless. at least gambling addicts aren't feeding an industry that has women, often trafficked women, raped and beaten on camera for your oh so important jack off sessions. fucking pathetic.

[leejungjae456]

harassing real people over fictional things that are taboo/problematic doesn’t make you morally superior by the way. it just makes you a bully

[the-siberian-wolf]

I wonder if proshippers think 'fiction affects reality' mean the world will magically change or something, instead of the obvious and what the phrase means: humans are affected by fiction, whether we're aware or not.

Acknowledging this is literally the bare minimum.

[questions-about-blorbos]

by the way, if a ship disgusts you but you don’t harass people who ship it, you’re a proshipper.

being a proshipper isn’t exclusive to only “enjoying a ship that would have been morally unacceptable in real life”.

being a proshipper just means “being against online harassment”.

you can be a proshipper and be disgusted by some specific ships at the same time, as long as you don’t harass people who enjoy them.

being a proshipper literally just means you know how to scroll past / ignore / mute / block things that make you uncomfortable instead of “attacking people for enjoying these fictional things”.

being a proshipper means being against bullying and harassing people over fictional things because you can separate fiction from reality and you know that how people choose to enjoy fictional things is not your business. that’s all.

[the-siberian-wolf]

Proshippers will read someone saying they don't have hardcore kinks or they feel uncomfortable at some of them, and will take it as kink shaming.

Interesting.

[questions-about-blorbos]

people who ship a ship that's unhealthy, toxic and fucked up and do not shy away from the fact their ship is unhealthy, toxic and fucked up by making them act all "lovey dovey" toward each other, or watering down the severity of the things that canonically make their ship a fucked up ship, in fanfics — and so they embrace the fact that their ship is fucked up, but that's the thing that makes their ship so hot, sexy, complex and fascinating — I am declaring my undying love and loyalty to you

[the-siberian-wolf]

The AO3 subreddit should change their name to proship subreddit. They now have a tag to talk about the proship discourse, as if they don't do that every week already.

Why can't they just take their proship thingies to another subreddit and leave the AO3 sub to...Just AO3

[questions-about-blorbos]

Hi! Could you maybe specify you are a proshipper/enjoy problematic content in your bio/pinned ? I was following this blog but the recent post (explicit rape/non-con tag) made me realize that I do not wanna be here. No hate, no disrespect, I will leave ! But I think it would be important to maybe warn about that stuff before “antis” that follow you starts attacking you ! Have a nice day/night, hydrate yourself :3

I mean, respectfully, I think the whole “anti vs proshipper” thing is childish and stupid but I consider myself a proshipper because I like dark and fucked up (fictional) things, I don’t care what fucked up things strangers like as long as they don’t hurt anybody in real life, and I think you (general you, not you, anon) are the problem if you start harassing real people over their personal preferences in fictional things just to sound “morally superior”.

I don’t put “hey I’m a proshipper” in my bio because I think it’s childish and stupid and it sounds like we’re in an elementary school, but it’s not a secret either that all “freaks” are welcome here. I have always been very vocal about my support for darkfics since the beginning of this blog.

this was originally (and still is!!) a whump blog. bring in all the dead doves for me to eat

and also my bio said “blog not suitable for minors” which means there will be NSFW content on here.

[billcyp-her]

btw moral purity within shipping spaces is dumb. btw moral purity within shipping spaces only creates a surveillance culture around places that are meant to be fun. btw moral purity within shipping spaces causes more real life harm than consuming problematic ship content. btw fiction is not reality. btw I don’t need to justify liking a ship in order to engage with it.

[xx-slug-xx]

HEY!

If y’all didn’t think censorship would come for shit you like

SESAC just censored over 1 million songs on yourtube and they are no longer able to be listened to :)

This includes songs by Green Day, Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Mumford and Sons, and Kanye West just to name some that I have seen thus far

This means that on YouTube, if a song is detected in a video that is included in this new SESAC agreement on YouTube, the entire video is not viewable if you are in the US

This also means that Warrior Cats maps and other fandom related things up on YouTube that have songs included in this new deal on YouTube are now blocked in the USA. Speedpaints, Maps, and animatics for your favorite fandoms are now blocked if they include these songs.

Censorship comes for everything, including the things you like. It’s not a pick and choose ordeal, and it’s a bad thing no matter what is being censored and by whom

I implore people to protest against this, because this doesn’t slide. Send emails, complain online, use vpns, anything to fuck with YouTube at this point. This won’t stop with just music. No matter what SESAC tries to say about “protecting artists and their work”, this is censorship. The reason doesn’t matter. Censorship is still censorship at the end of the day. You don’t protect Jack shit by blocking songs from an entire country. Belive it or not, less traction and less people viewing their work actually harms these artists!

[the-siberian-wolf]

Exactly this. Before I got more into the proship community, I was under the impression antis were crazy people who want to censor everything and make it PG-13.

But it's just manipulation from proshippers. Yeah, of course there are antis who want that, the world is too big and there will always be at least one person.

After I did my research and saw both sides' arguments, I realized proshippers are just liars and manipulators. No, antis don't want to censor fanfiction or tv shows, or videogames, or books. They just think romanticising pedo, incest, rape...Is, maybe, weird and makes them look really bad.

Of course, harassment and doxxing can come from anyone, no matter the group. But of course, proshippers think they're saints and their peers would never do that. Because that's what antis do, right?

Me being against proship is not : "censor, take down, no one should be allowed to talk about this"

Me being against proship is: "people aren't going to like you if you romanticize pedophilia. I am allowed to not want to be around you, cut you out of my life, whatever, because you romanticize disgusting, serious, awful things that happen to real people. And I'm not the only one who will"

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

one of the things I see the most in any fandom space is pearl clutching people saying how “shocked” they are when it turns out a “problematic” ship or a “problematic” character is loved a lot in said fandom.

the most recent example for me would be from this poll where it asks people to vote which ship they like the most, thousands of fans have voted, and the results happen to show the ship that is — according to these people — most problematic has won. needless to say, hundreds of these “noble people who usually harass real people, who just want to ship their little ship in peace, over fictional characters in the name of being morally superior” are so shocked that such a “harmful and problematic” ship is the one that is most liked within the fandom they’re in.

I mean… I don’t know what to tell you, but just because you’re “loud” and you like to “witch hunt” people who enjoy fictional things that you think is Bad, doesn’t mean the ship or the character you deemed Problematic is actually hated by the majority of the fandom you’re in.

sure, you are allowed to hate these ships and these characters for any reason, but other people are allowed to like them. and surprise surprise, the world doesn’t revolve around you and your mindset that Liking Bad Fictional Things Equals Condoning Bad Things in Real Life.

shocking, I know. but most sane people can actually distinguish the differences between fiction and reality. and that’s why people who like fictional villains aren’t actually serial killer in real life.

fandom is and has always supposed to be a safe and fun space in which anyone can like and enjoy whatever they want. it never is, and it’s never supposed to be a courtroom where someone’s moral compass is judged based on how they enjoy Fictional Things. because the whole point of enjoying a ship or liking a fictional character is that it’s fictitious, it’s not real. no one in real life is getting killed because a hot fictional villain is loved by hundreds and thousands of fans.

I hope you feel better soon though 🤍

[the-siberian-wolf]

Disclaimer: I'm aware not all people have the right and privilege to attend school. It's obvious this post isn't towards them.

With the whole 'fiction doesn't affect reality' proshippers really didn't study the consequences and influence of art in society? How art periods are so well defined? Art and reality aren't separated, they influence each other constantly.

[questions-about-blorbos]

“omg I didn’t know this artist was a pro shipper. this is so disappointing. I was a fan of their works. what a wasted talent😭” babe, why would you think people who are talented enough to make all these beautiful art - or write all these beautiful fics - are not smart enough to differentiate and separate fiction from reality?😭