#relationship hierarchies

[nouverx]

*proceeds to drink the whole bottle*

Yeah Alastor you're gonna be loved and appreciated wether you want it or not :)

[askanaroace]

I found another piece sitting in my drafts that could fit with this month’s Carnival of Aros’ theme – Loneliness. I may have originally intended it to be part of a larger piece, but I c…

I actually can’t resist adding some commentary to your sub here because it’s something I’ve discussed a lot with others. Actually, as a result, Kate Preach (via Captain Awkward) actually came up with this guide a while ago that a lot in our group have gotten a lot from, so I’d like to share it.

Here is my Friending Guide again in case it helps: #############

One of the big ways indirect friending works is by reciprocity signals.

Sorry, I’m now going to nerd out and write something down in geeky detail in case it helps. For the sake of turning into numbers, let’s assume everyone starts at friendship level zero, and really really bestest friends is level 10.

So person A wants to test out person B to see if they are open to friendship, they say something mildly friendly, at level 1 (‘Hey, how are you? Nice to see you again!’). If person B replies similarly at level 1 (‘Okay thanks – I’m glad it’s the weekend! How are you doing?’), then they both know that they are open to being level 1 friends (in this case, people who are friendly-ish to each other but not close).

At that point, if neither of them wants anything more, they can carry on happily at level 1 for years. Or, one of them – B in this case – will test the water at level 2 by adding a bit more personal detail (‘Actually I’m a bit sad today because….’) If A reciprocates at level 1 (‘Poor you! But at least it’s the weekend’), then they both go back to level 1. The signal was ‘do you want to be better friends?’, and the answer was no. Or if A does want to be better friends, they reciprocate at level 2, or even at 3.

The idea here is not to be too far ahead or behind the other person, and test each level first to see if they are open to more intimacy. Going from 1 to 7 (“I had a great orgasm last night, and this is how…”) in a single bound is viewed as high pressure and weird.

[The caveat here is that there are very occasional circumstances where extreme intimacy happens quickly – hen/batchelorette nights, CA meetups, natural disasters, etc. – but for normal circumstances don’t leap ahead, and if you’re nervous let the other person make the leap first even if you are in one of those situations.]

A friendship where one person is at 2 and one person is at 5 is unbalanced and won’t really work long term. It is okay short term (if you are going through something horrible and need to talk about it), but it needs to get back in balance after the crisis.

So to navigate this, the keys are a) responding to any change in level – if they lead with a 2, responding with a 1 looks like a brush off even if you didn’t mean it that way, and b) respecting their levels. If you’ve tried someone with a level 2 or 3 and they didn’t reciprocate, don’t push it, and respect their choice. Be open to more from them, but don’t start it yourself more than twice on the same person.

Incidentally, some ways to signal a change in levels are by actions as well: invitations to something, introductions to partner/family, home visits.

In these cases, saying no is a no; saying yes is a yes, saying ‘I can’t do Tuesday, but how about Wednesday?’ is a yes, but importantly: saying ‘I can’t do Tuesday, but let’s do it some other time’ IS A NO. It’s a polite deflection and shouldn’t be taken as a yes.

So if you like someone, try testing them out for moving up the scale – if you’re at 1 try a 2, if at 2 try a 3, ask ‘it’s fun to talk, would you like to get a coffee this weekend?’

If the same person says no or deflects twice in a row, back off and let them decide if they want to invite you to something. Move on and try someone else.

If you’re really geeky about it you can track all of this in a spreadsheet or something!

That’s by Kate Preach.

User syrens had a bit of an addition/clarification (based on some questions this brought up):

Re: Don’t have a specific counter-time to offer right off the top of your head: Say “[Optional Expression of Dismay]!  I can’t do Thing on [date], but would love to do it a different day.  Let me check my schedule and I’ll call/email this evening” (or similar) and then following through with what you said you’d do.  That’s how you make your yes sound like a yes.

Re: How do you know what level what is on: I think it’s less about categorizing what is “level one” versus what is “level six” or whatever, so much as being able to gage offers of intimacy.  Does their offer of intimacy (invitations, information, etc) feel weirdly personal – are they oversharing in some way?  Yes?  They are probably offering a friendship level that is higher than what you’re comfortable with.  If you want to up your friendship to a higher level, but not one that’s as high as what they’re offering, you might counter “Want to come to my house for pizza and Dr Who on [Date]” with “Can’t do [Date].  Maybe we could do pizza and *trivia night at [place]* on [different date within the same seven days] instead?” Does their offer of intimacy sound totally cool and like something you would want to do – “I’m having people over to play boardgames on Saturday.  Want to come?” (“Yes!  What time should I be there, and is there anything I should bring?” OR “Yes!  But I’m busy on Saturday.  Can you let me know when the next one is? [followed by inviting them, within a couple of days, to a group thing at your place]” OR “Yes!  But I’m busy on Saturday.  Want to meet me at [place] for one-on-one scrabble, Tuesday night?”) – then you both want to be at the same level.

Er… Does any of that make sense…?

[aromacaque]

do allos know about amatonormativity? do they know they're allowed to live a life outside of the cookie cutter arbitrary conventions society has laid out for them? "we're just friends we can't do xyz" but you can. "but i'm not aro so i can't-" no you Can. you're allowed to do whatever you want

[saltmarshnerd]

Friendship can be just as intense as romance. Romance can be just as intense as friendship. There is no one over the other. There is human connection, there is the strength of the bond that varies based on the specific circumstances surrounding each relationship. There is love - it may be platonic or romantic or anything in between. There is love, and it simply presents different forms.

Love doesn’t come with a hierarchy.

[fanby-fckry]

Vox: I wanna be more than business partners.

Alastor: Friends?

Vox: More than friends.

Alastor: Best friends? You’re pushing your luck, old pal.

Vox: What? No! Ulgh, more than best friends!

Alastor: Ah. Enemies.

Vox: ???

[stabbydragon]

I have this friend (who is also arospec) that recently got an online boyfriend. A couple days ago I casually told my friend “I love you” like I have a million times before and this time his answer was “I’m not saying it back. I’m saving that for my boyfriend” Your boyfriend who you’ve never actually met before and have only been dating a few days. I’m fine. Amatonormativity and relationship hierarchies don’t destroy my soul at all :’) I’m sorry I can’t love you in the way you want to be loved.

[m4gp13]

Why did Rick do this to us?

Seriously, he went, "Yeah I'm gonna establish a history between two important characters on opposing sides of a conflict in which one of them clearly has negative feelings about the other. and then never bring it up again 🤪" BITCH COME BACK HERE!!!

There was so much that could have been going on between these two! I was talking to @nakamurastorrington about this on twt the other day.

Like, Annabeth's fatal flaw is hubris and Ethan's mother is the physical embodiment of the punishment for hubris, they are diametrically opposed! They have their shared history at camp but very different experiences with the system where Annabeth was pretty much immediately claimed and became the head councillor of her own cabin from a very young age, establishing her as a respected veteran at camp. Meanwhile, Ethan was shoved into a corner of someone else's cabin because he wasn't worth his own cabin, and so he just faded into the background. Also, Their relationship with Luke! They both had Luke as a big brother figure. Annabeth saw him as genuine family and Ethan would have looked up to him as his brother while in the Hermes cabin. Then Luke left and Annabeth still held out hope for him and refused to believe he'd ever truly passed the point of no return even while everyone constantly told her she was wrong, and Ethan, despite spending a year working for Kronos and seeing the worst of the results of Luke's actions, still believed he was in there fighting Kronos. Not to mention, THEIR MOTHERS??!?!!?!

There could have been such interesting conflict between them! Annabeth should have gotten to talk to Ethan during the parley. If anyone should have gotten to snap at Ethan about his mother, it should have been her because he would have snapped back so hard!

[thatsgazebo]

The “bud” after “I love you” does NOT devalue it. And NOT just because “bud” can be interpreted romantically, but because having loving platonic relationships with friends is just as monumental.

[the-ross-winchester]

Everyone talks about the "am I bisexual or asexual" confusion but no one talks about the "am I polyamorous or aromantic" confusion.

[qprstories]

People often define QPRs as some kind of "halfway point" between friendship and romance, but I prefer to think of it as more of a "secret third thing" that can have characteristics of platonic and romantic relationships, but can also be totally unique. It gives more room for freedom and flexibility, which is what QPRs are meant for. They're not meant to be the middle point between two binary options. They are an entirely different category all of their own.

Think of it like how we see nonbinary genders. Most of us recognize that nonbinary doesn't mean a halfway point between male and female, but an entirely distinct set of genders that may share characteristics of male and female genders, but also may not. This is what QPRs are (supposed) to be like, not something defined as a middle point in an arbitrary binary.

[canisalbus]

My headcanon for Modern!Machete before he encounters (re-encounters?) Vasco is that he works in some high-powered but low-profile position for an influential and well-known multinational. Like a corporate lawyer or accountant for Apple or Volkswagon or Shell. He's very, very good at his job, his assistants and staff think he's a good boss, his boss thinks he's great, but half his colleagues can't stand him because they think he got promoted for sucking up to their boss instead of for his skills (it was for his skills). He's got exactly enough interpersonal skills to recognize the problem and not enough to fix it. He gets paid extremely well, well enough to mostly pretend that he's happy and fulfilled (he still ends up happier in the Modern!AU because his job only sucks a little instead of literally destroying him. Also because modern medicine means his medical situation is much better understood and controlled). Yes this is all just the modern equivalent to what canon!Machete's got going on but it's startling how much carries over with no changes.

Oh that's so well thought out actually, I love that.

[serpentine-owl]

Random philosopher: I have never heard of aromanticism, but I am against organising types of relationships into a hierarchy... friends and romantic partnerships are different because friends enjoy the world together, whereas lovers are each other's worlds and-

Me: fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off fuck off

[aro-culture-is]

aromantic culture is understanding that just because platonic and romantic relationships can be/are different (and that can be a good thing!), that doesn't mean your friends are less important... and your alloromantic friends not understanding that distinction and getting mad when you point out that that's how they treat you vs. their partner

.

[archivomeow]

how do yall deal with amatonormativity?

[wlwanakin]

i’ve been writing star wars fic again bc this shit is a disease in case u can’t tell and i have become kind of obsessed with trying to delve into and rework sabé and anakin’s whole deal bc i am kind of obsessed with their limited interactions in queen’s hope but it left me hungry for More because i feel like there is potential for some real crazy shit under the surface. like they’re two different kinds of attack dog. they’re in a fight no one asked them to be in. and like sabé’s resentment towards anakin is for Obvious Reasons but if you really wanna get into anakin’s resentment towards sabé it’s kind of a feast…there is something so intimate about knowing someone well enough to become them. i think anakin is jealous of that. i think on some level he wants that. he and padmé love each other with such intensity that their identities kind of blur into each other but there are people who can Become Padmé and he is not one of them and i think I THINK that has the potential to drive him crazy if he thinks about it too long. and on that level i think sabé makes him lose his mind by existing

[normalbrothers]

TOMMY: Arthur, Frances was right. Linda was here today.