#source: batman and robin eternal

[casscainmainly]

Does Cass have a civilian job or even much of a civilian identity? I sometimes saw her work as a ballet dancer but that was fanfiction so idk were that comes from

Cassandra Cain our unemployed queen ❤️.

Cass doesn't have a job, or much of a civilian identity! In fact, one of the main early sources of tension between Bruce & Babs, as well as Babs & Cass, is that Babs wanted Cass to have a life outside Batgirl and Cass/Bruce didn't. Early on, Cass was very cavalier about her 'secret identity' (Cass didn't actually have one because her father had hidden her from the world). It's only after Stephanie dies in War Games and Cass moves to Bludhaven that she starts thinking about her life outside the mask, mostly thanks to Onyx's advice! Then she begins to befriend civilians such as Brenda, a waitress, and Zero, a love interest.

This civilian stuff is sadly interrupted by Bludhaven blowing up + her turning evil, and I don't think anything since then has picked up this thread. Also, even at the peak of her civilian life (in Gabrych's Bludhaven run), jobs literally never cross her mind. I honestly cannot imagine her working a civilian job like she would much rather be kicking butt and saving lives than working in a cubicle (she would DEFINITELY not do a 9-5). We'll see whether Batgirl (2024) gives her more of a civilian identity, but yeah I do not see Cass actually wanting or doing an occupation long-term.

As for where the 'ballet dancer' comes from, Cass falls in love with ballet in Batman & Robin: Eternal and Tynion's Detective Comics (2016)! But ballet is more of a hobby for her than a job, and I really don't think she'd actually go into ballet academy or something - ballet has been a bit overemphasised in the fandom tbh. Because ballet for Cass is associated with expression (and feminine community as I argued in another post), I don't think she'd enjoy the strict routines or choreo that ballet dancers have to do.

Anyway hope that helps!!! May Cass remain unemployed forever ❤️.

[suzukiblu]

WIP guessing game: "Robin"

Superboy has existed for about six months at best (five months, two weeks, and six days, but who's creepily spying on their fellow heroes and vigilantes? not Tim, for sure) and was created in a lab full of extremely niche genetic experiments whose creators very rarely bothered making look human, which is probably why he has some weird ideas about certain social norms.

Tim assumes that's why the guy just decided to drop a very annoyed Catwoman on him out of nowhere, anyway.

"The fuck?" he says, though through his vocoder it comes out more like the incoherent screeching of the damned. That being, well, the whole purpose of the vocoder and all. Superboy grins down at him from the nighttime sky all bright and sunny and weirdly adorable, for being a lab-grown weapon and a guy who is technically capable of disassembling Tim down to his individual atoms with, like, a touch and about two seconds' worth of thought.

Not that Tim has been creepily spying on anyone or said anyone's Cadmus files, again.

Also Superboy might not even know he can do that yet, so it's really not a smart thing to mention right now.

"Hey, man!" Superboy greets cheerfully. "She was breaking into that big museum a couple blocks over, figured you'd care about that. As opposed to, like, breaking into some rich asshole with insurance's penthouse. Figured you would not have cared about that."

"The museum also has insurance, for the record," Selina informs him sourly as she makes an art of getting off her unceremoniously roof-dumped ass while looking like being on this roof was her idea to begin with. Because, like: Selina. "And has not properly sourced the artifacts in their new Bast exhibit."

I know, that's why I was on my way to the museum to keep an eye out for you, is what Tim does not say, since Robin is supposed to be a splintered aspect of a mysterious all-knowing city spirit given human form and not just, like, a really dedicated teenager surviving on semi-legal energy drinks and conspiracy-board detective work and the occasional occult ritual to summon the Batman.

What he does do is jerkily cock his head and say, "Preyyyyy?", and let his vocoder horribly mangle the word into a sound usually best described as "unholy avian screeching". Superboy beams, which is not a normal reaction to hearing Robin's voice. Selina just rolls her eyes, but Selina of course knows about the whole "really dedicated teenager surviving on semi-legal energy drinks and conspiracy-board detective work and the occasional occult ritual to summon the Batman" thing.

Like she's never summoned the Batman for anything, geez. Or "Bruce", as an eight year-old Dick Grayson had once upon a time decided to randomly dub him. Tim still can't call the eternal and unsleeping eldritch protector of their city that without feeling like he's going to spontaneously combust, but it is in fact a thing that the Batman will answer to.

Might as well call Pennyworth "Alfie", though.

Jason was even worse at names than Dick, Tim is pretty sure.

"Yeah!" Superboy says, sounding still more cheerful and floating down the rest of the way to the roof to land lightly in front of Tim. Selina eyes him in a way that would end very badly for anyone who was not functionally invulnerable. "I mean, she seems cool and all but I dunno, figured the Bat wasn't big on Cats in his territory. And also the criming. Definitely also the criming."

"How . . . find Robin?" Tim asks. Superboy doesn't have enhanced senses, as far as he knows, so . . .

"Oh, I've been stalking you," Superboy explains. Tim blinks behind his unblinking mask and feels several ways about that statement. "That's what you Bats all do when you're interested in somebody, right? So I figured you'd like it if I did it back."

. . . Tim feels several ways about that statement.

[kitkat5628]

BatFamily members crying for masochists like me PART 3🩵 (Of course I didn't include every moments, that'd be too much. And I hope all the sources are right, apologies if they're not🙏)

Cassandra:

Detective Comics #952

Batgirl #49 (2000)

Detective Comics #974

Detective Comics #974

Superboy Vol 1 #85

Batman #567

Detective Comics #973

Batgirl #5 (2008)

Batgirl #5 (2008)

Batman & Robin Eternal #20

Jason:

Batman: Urban Legends #4

Red Hood: The Lost Days #2

Red Hood and The Outlaws #6

?

Batman: Three Jokers

Red Hood: The Lost Days #4

Batman: White Knight #7

Batman: Three Jokers #2

?

Batman: Urban Legends #6

Event Leviathan

Red Hood: The Lost Days

Batman Annual 25

Red Hood and the Outlaws #0

Stephanie:

Detective Comics #940

Batgirl #54 (2000)

Young Justice #5 (2019)

Detective Comics #969 (2016)

Robin #65 (1993)

Robin #111 (1993)

This is your friendly reminder that crying doesn't make you weak, even strong people cry when they feel like it. Never feel ashamed about it❤️‍🩹

[fantastic-nonsense]

Who would win a fight? Redwood or Nightwing?

While I am mostly aware of Nightwing's fighting prowess and skills(via many Tumblr metas, yours included), I have nothing on Redhood

This inquiry appeared because of a YouTube video that was telling about Vampire! Nightwing and Redhood's fight and at the end, Redhood said that he knew he would've won if Wonder Woman didn't help Nightwing (which I call bullshit). Many comments were glazing Redhood. So despite not believing how Redhood would've taken enhanced Nightwing in a fight when normal one is so op, I wanted to know the opinion of a comics reader

I also know how DC vs vampires is like a fanfiction story, undermining many characters, but still that inquiry grew beyond. Who would win? Canon!Redhood or Canon!Nightwing?

Nightwing would win.

Source: Nightwing: Brothers in Blood, Batman: Battle for the Cowl, Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin run, New 52 Nightwing, Batman and Robin Eternal, Task Force Z, etc etc etc.

[60sgeek]

Cassandra Cain / Orphan / Batgirl Icons

Like. Reblog.

Source/s: Batman and Robin Eternal Series

[zahri-melitor]

Cassandra Cain and 'Orphan': an identity that has some interesting meat on its bones in context, but rapidly becomes ridiculous outside of that.

I am not going to advocate 'Orphan' to be a good name for Cass. However, when you look at it within the context of the story set up for Batman & Robin Eternal, there are some strong thematic reasons for the name.

Killing David Cain in B&R Eternal was a waste of the character (his appearances through Batgirl 2000 and Murderer/Fugitive are rightly iconic), but it does one thing: it sets up a dynamic between David and Cass where she can never seek to have him realise the changes she's made and her rejection of his plan for her.

'Orphan' as a name for David Cain means a lot, especially in the context of his work for Mother. It's a fundamental rejection of her work, even as he collaborated with her; it's a statement that those children that Mother took on can never be the same, and that they did lose everything.

And so Cass taking on David's name is a rejection of Mother, and of her upbringing, in that she's dividing herself from the expectations placed on her and declaring herself to be separate and left alone and abandoned. She's an 'orphan' from her childhood. But as it's also David's name, she's taking on something he cared for and transforming it into her own, into a rejection of his methods, that he can't take back, because he's dead, but also reminds herself of him, because Cass did love David even as she rejected him.

Cass didn't know Shiva was her mother. Cass didn't know Shiva. At that moment that Cass took on the name of Orphan, that's how she saw herself in the world.

And it's twisty and layered and more complicated than it looks.

And then, of course, to anyone who didn't read Batman & Robin Eternal (which is fine, it's honestly a very mid weekly comic livened occasionally with fun scenes), none of this is communicated or makes sense at all, because to the popular audience Cass is well known to have living parents, so the name doesn't make sense, and the context of it being David Cain's name is lost, because that only existed in B&R Eternal, and so it becomes a source of jokes and clowning.

But it's interesting to me, in terms of it being the first mantle that Cass has ever chosen to assume for herself. She was given Batgirl by Bruce and Babs, before she could even speak; she used Black Bat for such a very short period and while I like it as a name for her (particularly in terms of the context of how Helena also called herself The Bat in their shared costume), it registers as a 'new' name; but Orphan was about the struggle of the pull towards and rejection of David Cain that marks Cass' story all the way back to her creation, and I think mocking it ignores the meaning that was infused into it.

It's still a dreadful choice out of context and in any situation where that context is not acknowledged, though.

[cosmicmordecai]

I’ve said this before but just to expand what I was saying earlier regarding Zatanna’s not necessarily being “de-aged” to be with Dick Grayson in YJ. In comics, Zatanna was moreover aged up to be closer to Batman.

Dependening on the stories, Zee starts off her heroism at 18-21. Sometimes she joins the JL after years of searching for her father or around the same time.

[Secret Origins v2 #27 - Recounted through Dr. Mist, who reveals being the mastermind behind her father & her upheavals in life by force via Felix Faust. In the story, he does realize how fucking creepy and patronizing his actions were.]

[ Justice League of America #51 - This story places her at 20 years old when she finally reunited with her father and joins the JL a short time later. But this story makes it seem like she was an orphan rather than raised by her father for a chunk of her childhood.]

[ DCU Heroes Secret Files & Origins #1 - This timeline would imply that she joined the JL first at 21.]

All these sources came prior to her history with Batman, which would naturally move her timeline to make her adjacent with him prior.

[Compared that to Dick, whom she met alongside the Titans in Tales of the Teen Titans #4 in the 1980s. By then, Dick was already college bound with high school graduation [Batman #217]or a teenager depending on your context, placing him roughly 16-18 give or take. This same series in which the picture above has him retire the Robin name in #39, which modern stories typically have that done at 18 years old.]

I think it’s very important to note that Zatanna’s character has changed overtime and that there’s no definite “Justice League generation” vs other generations of heroes. There’s not this neat little box where every DCU character conveniently fits in.

The Titans might fit in the “heroes in their 20s” box and the Teen Titans feature heroes younger than 18 but even then, some TT reached 18+ [Red Devil] and there’s been a plethora of heroes in their 20s in the JL [Kyle Rayner, Khalid Nassour, Ronnie Raymond/Jason Rusch]. Just like the JSA has younger members & successors who join, the JL features membership of varying ages.

[I literally forgot the source of this.]

I understand the basis makes it seem like Zatanna is infantalized but that’s not necessarily true. The character wasn’t always Bruce’s childhood friend and at one point, only met significantly in the JL to Batman’s own recollection. & one other time where she was disguised as a witch unknown to Bruce himself long before the retcon that made them childhood friends came to be.

It’s also hard to say “Zatanna has to be around this age bc she hangs out with so-and-so” because characters like Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman has had their histories altered in many ways. Barry Allen’s age has never been stated so using his interest in her as an age gauge is iffy and honestly, in real life, people have relationships, flirtations, and friendships with people older and younger than them. Part of adulthood is meshing with people & it’s not always convenient that you’ll be friends with people your own age. Interpersonal relationships are also multi-faceted and complex.

I also think it’s sets a bad precedent to not examine the character’s history and go off of the “idea” of where characters are instead of their history. Various DC characters already get this:

Billy Batson is always like 10 or 12 when people think of him but like he’s been 15 & 16 too. His relationship with Courtney Whitmore for example happened when he’s in high school himself. He is also chronologically older than Jon Kent regardless of space bullshit.

Raven & Beast Boy’s character get de-aged to the point they’ve been in Dick, Tim, and Damian’s version of the Teen Titans in media & comics.

Jaime Reyes remained eternally in high school until recently and it took a movie to budge him from that.

Stephanie Brown & Cassandra Caín are out here having Damian be closer to them in age because editorials, writers, and fanon completely forget both characters have been 18 far longer than anybody thinks.

Khalid Nassour debuted in 2015 already 23 years old & a year older than DICK GRAYSON IN THE SAME YEARS. Nowadays, he’s drawn as a teen/college age guy and his timeline either implies he’s in his 30s now or in 2023, all his 100+ appearances took place in ONE YEAR so therefore, everyone he interacted with also progressed one year overtime?

Long story short, it’s really important in my opinion to consider a character’s history and not just go off of whose their friend is, what you think their idealized version is like, and do not use the characters whose timeline DC & Didio has outright played Russian Roulette with accommodate their idealized version of the characters as a placeholder.

[gffa]

Sources: 1. Robin & Batman (2022) / 2. Robin & Batman (2022) / 3. Shadow War: Alpha #1 / 4. Forever Evil #6 / 5. Robins #6 / 6. Batman/Catwoman: The Gotham War: Battle Lines / 7. Detective Comics #940 / 8. Batman & Robin Eternal #13 / 9. Batman (2016) #54 / 10. Batman & Robin (2011) #37 / 11. Batman #654 / 12. Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #27 / 13. Batman & Robin (2011) #14 / 14. Batgirl (2008) #6 / 15. Batman and the Outsiders (2018) #17 / 16. Red Hood/Arsenal #5 / 17. Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #18 / 18. All Star Batman & Robin #9 / 19. Batman (2016) #54 / 20. Batman (2016) Annual #4 / 21. Nightwing (2016) #100 / 22. Nightwing (2016) #100 / 23. - / 24. Batman: Black and White #5 / 25. Nightwing (2016) Annual #2 / 26. Forever Evil #6

A collection of Bruce hugging his kids because I needed this today.

[incorrectbartimaeusquotes]

Mr Underwood: You wake me at night, you don't let me punch kids — this marriage has really gone downhill.

[kitkat5628]

Rare interaction between Dick and Steph

Source: Batman the Brave and The Bold #13

Yes, it's not even canon but when I tell y'all I'll stick to anything. The hug that, yes, it would have made more sense if it was with Cass. Their little interactions of when Stephanie was Batgirl, their first meeting in Batman and Robin Eternal #2... Anything.

And I'll gladly accept this hand on the shoulder lol.

[tqgincorrectquotes]

Jolene [to Beth]: I honestly can't tell if you're geeking out or changing the subject.

[leatortilla]

hi!!!!!! i put it all under the cut so it’s easy to scroll past (so many pictures….) but here's my batfam fit roster! sources in the alt desc :)

batman must never have the black undies and must always have long cape, ie arkham knight batman. OR…… any iteration of batblob

nightwing is the iteration of nightwing with the blue going down the arms and hands & his hair eternally looks like this in my mind (everyone say thank you dan mora)

red hood is usually helmet hood (smooth helmet with eyes) with jacket and bat symbol (obligatory chair pic)

red robin is always yost run but with a domino instead of that god awful cowl

also jumpscare warning for the cowl in question

damian is tricky for a few reasons, but it mostly boils down to his fluctuating facial features and skin tone in the comics/other source material. to ME, he should look confusing (aka racially/ethnically ambiguous) and pale in winter, tan in summer. am i projecting? maybe. but that is not a crime. anyway damian’s first robin outfit is the best obviously but if he’s stated to be a teen than i imagine him in the newer robin outfit (the gray one where he is stripped of childlike wonder and whimsy)

signal actually has two outfits, but his most memorable one is his outfit with the white batsymbol and the absolutely adorable baby bat ears :) it’s most likely his most popular since it’s the one used in wfa but he does have another one! i put it there so you can compare the two

barbara gordon is ALWAYS oracle and a wheelchair user unless specified otherwise

cassandra cain and stephanie brown are batgirls to me :) im biased since i own this but omg i love them sm…… they're my girls……..

and last but not least (for batfam characters more commonly seen in maribat fanfics) alfred!!! i think my fav iteration of him has to be from batman: the animated series

anyway that's it i hope i answered your question :)

So I was just thinking about all the Marinette gets left in Gotham fics and it got me wondering as everyone has their own "canon" outfit for the batfam well except Signal he only has the one costume, but maribat fandom what is your batfam outfit roster look like? To clarify what I mean when you read a fic that the batfam shows up in and no description of costume is given what do they wear? i.e. New 52 or animated series.

[60sgeek]

Dick Grayson / Robin / Nightwing Icons

Like. Reblog.

Source/s: Batman and Robin Eternal Series

[zahri-melitor]

I think there’s a discussion to be had about how the lack of current consistent character bibles affects comics in terms of characterisation.

Because I think there actually is a lot more consistent characterisation than people sometimes want to realise when they’re complaining about appearances being out of character. There tends to be a background set of character notes writers who DON'T follow a character obsessively know about them when writing them, and they're often based in their early or most prominent stories. Even if people are willing to look, they’re mostly going to dip in to a couple of recced stories to refresh their memory of what their characterisation is like. Which is part of why character growth has trouble sticking (if what a less-frequent writer is referencing is not the most recent run) but also is frustrating when you're having the 'is this in character' debate because if 8 writers over 10 years all pull this trait out and use it again, there's a level of consistency that's hard to overlook, even if the main writer for the character isn't using it anymore.

It’s particularly noticeable in characterisations in crossovers and events. Because when a writer is juggling half a dozen characters they don’t usually write, they’re going to draw on their memories rather than do deep dive reads for the ones they’re less familiar with. So you get the ‘everyone knows’ character traits and beats.

And this leads to people who love a character vs people who are fine about the character but don't specifically read their runs having differing views on their personalities if these things clash.

Let’s use Damian for an example, because it’s really really obvious by comparing what I’m reading at the moment: Batman & Robin Eternal, Robin War, and Robin: Son of Batman. Two events (one with a crossover issue) and his main title in 2015.

Because if you only encounter Damian in crossovers and events, Damian being a little turd who uses insulting nicknames and proclaims his superiority to everyone is…a lot of what you’ve seen in previous crossovers and events. And he’s doing it again in Robin War and Batman & Robin Eternal. Now there are specifically different beats to this – Damian’s fully ready to sacrifice himself for Dick when he realises Dick’s in trouble. But he’s using frankly derogatory nicknames to Jason and Tim and insulting their abilities, and is even nastier to the We Are Robin kids. And he shows up in Eternal and out of the gate tells everyone they’ve been an idiot.

While if you’re a Damian fan reading his own titles, some of this characterisation rings as backsliding, as he doesn’t really use nicknames anymore in his own titles and has been soul searching about his own past and actions, so it’s not congruent with what you expect to see him doing.

Because if you're fully enmeshed in a character's lore and all their appearances, you obviously centre their protagonist stories and discount the crossover appearances that don't match. But if people only read those crossover appearances… that’s the character they know. And see. And it’s pretty consistent BETWEEN those appearances, so telling those people they’re wrong about a character they’ve encountered in multiple storylines is only going to get backs up on both sides. When actually these are two different completely valid views on a character, sourced from comics. It’s just that those personalities are particularly out of sync between “how they appear as a protagonist/regular” and “how they appear as a side character”.

And that can be incredibly frustrating to hear, when that’s your blorbo. But also, people who are treating repeated characterisation they encounter with a character over many years, across many titles and writers as ‘this is who the character is’ are not deliberately out to be mean to your blorbo. That’s the character they know!

And I think we should all think about that a bit more and take a deep breath.

[textsfromthebatfamily]

[druish--princess]

too much feelings i cant